Now the 419 with Gretchen de Bakker Matt Killum and Kevin Mullin ah.

Welcome to the 419, powered by WGTE and presented by Whetro Wealth Management.

I'm Kevin mullan, Gretchen DeBacker.

No, Matt.

Killum today.

So feel a lightness in the air.

Yeah, well, you know, that happens.

So I, missed a couple days.

Yes.

Last week and earlier this week.

And I, And I missed a day.

You did today.

I know, but but every time I miss a day, you morons make up some excuses to what I have going on.

You've had many surgeries.

Turning to Matt, which is not a figure.

Things out putting things in.

That's right.

And so I decided that today, I think Matt is having one o the things that I had removed.

He's having you saved a form.

He's he's having it installed.

He's a recipient.

That's right.

So, that's just that' all we can say because of HIPAA.

That's right.

Well, HIPAA doesn't apply to people I know.

Yeah.

That's the joke.

It is always encouraged to when you when you tell a joke, you tell someone one of the thing that is not here that drives him the most crazy is when he says a joke.

And then I just try to explain it or be like, well, that's so that he it makes him intense because he wants you just to laugh at the thing he said.

Yeah, well, right.

And don't explain it right.

And don't build on it.

Don't take credit for his joke.

I don't think it credit is the situation is the issue where like inspiration.

Yeah.

Okay.

That's okay.

We are taking a look at our toledo.com community calendar driven by.

Tada!

Some really coo things happening this weekend.

And our friends@twitter.com, curate a list to say i you got to do something, here's five great things that you can do across northwest Ohio.

We're going to take a look at those in a minute.

We've got a great show.

We've got, Natalie Gray.

Amazing is going to be on talking about young artists at work.

We'll have Maureen Broga from the original sub shop.

Yep.

And then Scott Schwab.

Yeah.

He's going to come on.

And he's talking about Moses Fleetwood Walker.

Yes.

You know who that is?

I do know who Moses Fleetwood Walker is.

I don't know who Scott Schwab is.

Is a local attorney, legend, legendary local attorney, and he is super into Moses Fleetwood Walker.

There's a Moses Fleetwoo Walker Association and they meet and they're just trying to get, the story out about hi as a baseball player in his life and that he was from Toledo and all that kind of stuff.

I love it.

All right, well, that would be a fun conversation.

Again, this is really core to who we are as a program is that there are so many incredible people that have, these awesome passions and projects and things that they're doing to make our community better.

We've got three people on the program that live up to that bill.

Exactly.

Excited to hear from from each of them.

So.

All right, let's dive in.

Some cool things happening this weekend.

What's on the calendar for toledo.com?

Community calendar driven by Tada.

Even though Matt Guest again supports Matt's position that we talk about musicals too much on this show, we should talk about the musical heavy show this week.

This weekend you can see the Neil Diamond musical A Beautiful Nois that's going to be at Stranahan.

It's the tour, so that should be cool.

The rep is also and is not on the list, but I just mentioning again the rep is continuing their run of, Fiddler on the roof this weekend as well.

So is the Neil Diamond musical.

Does it have like well known Neil Diamond songs in it, or is it?

I imagine there's some new songs written as well.

I believe that is the case.

I've never seen this.

Okay, let me go to it, though.

I have a sense that it's maybe his life, but as opposed to what is like just his song is about other people, his favorite meals.

Yeah, I think it's about the time is about aliens.

Okay.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That was the beautiful the musical, right?

That's what it's about.

So anyway, go see that at the Stranahan.

And then there's two events.

Many people that are, government employees and many others have this coming Friday off because it's Juneteenth.

And so there's a couple of celebrations, things that you can do instead of just having a day off to commemorate the day.

Have some thoughtful, and fun, activities with kids and families on the day.

So Museum of Art first up is, having their Juneteenth, their annual Juneteenth celebration from 11 to 5 at the library.

It's totally free.

A lot of the spaces will be open there.

Family center is open for kids to come in and do stuff.

Jame Dickerson is going to be there.

Local photography legend.

So lots of artist interaction, food trucks, things to do with kids and families, things to view and see, and also al the programing.

It's so to me.

Museum of Art is also always excellent.

Love it.

Some great opportunities there on Friday and then Toledo's Juneteent celebration is also on Friday, but it's in the afternoon that gives you the opportunity to do both of these things.

You can go to the art museum from let's say I'm just making this up 11 to 2.

You get a little bite to eat downtown.

You head right over to the Glass City Metro Park starting at 330.

You can go to Toledo's Juneteenth celebration.

They have live music.

Local singers, local performers, food trucks.

Obviously you can see th beautiful, Glen City Metro Park.

And also they're going to have tons of vendors.

That will be available for that.

Celebration on Friday from 3:30 p.m.

to 9:00 pm.

All right.

So we got ourselves to two full day Tuesday.

Yep.

What's happening Saturday night is Toledo night market at the farmer's market.

This is such a cool event.

Have you.

That's great.

Yeah.

Fancy.

Moreland.

Who runs the night market?

Does such a wonderful job.

It's so great.

You got anything you need for upcoming gifts?

There's all kinds of local stuff, too, by local artists.

The regular foodstuff are usually available as well.

Anyway.

It's great.

It's free.

Something to do?

The weather' supposed to be lovely this week.

Nice, cool.

Walk through the farmers market will be very fun on Saturday, June 20th in the evening and also again double up, go to Night market.

Just walk right down the street.

Kevin, you jus ride a scooter down the street.

Scooter to the Imagination Station.

It's their annual fundraiser, the bash.

This is where I will be on Saturday night, June 20th, and they have that new Star Wars themed, exhibit going on.

So their bash i going to be around that theme.

I think tickets are still available for that, and that is a fundraiser just for the imagination Station.

Always a fun party.

Cool, really cool party supports a great organization, a great cause.

But it's also a chance, you know, when whenever I go to the imagination Station, I'm taking my kids.

And so the focus is really on them.

And for them, enjoying this is a chance to leave the kids at home.

Right?

Exactly.

This is a this is a concern for themselves.

That's right.

You get to do all the fun science activities and be a kid again, right?

And check out, all that imagination has to offer and support, their incredible mission.

So.

All right, so at all of these events, I think I can say this, I think every single one of them, every single one you can get to from our friends at Tada.

That's right.

They'll get you every one of them.

Thanks to Tada!

And thanks to the.com for presenting the community calendar here on the 419.

We're gonna take a break.

When we come back, we'll be joined by Natalie Gra talking young artists at work.

We'll be right back on the 419.

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The 419, powered by GT is made possible in part by supporters like you.

Thank you.

Welcome back into the 419 powered by GTI.

There's so many cool things happening in Toledo.

When you look around, there's so much beauty around our community.

The public art is fantastic.

And there's some of the projects that are happening that you may not realiz how cool the artists really are.

Because they're young artists that work.

We're joined now by Natalie Gray.

Natalie, you are with.

I work with the Art Commission.

The Arts Commission, overseeing.

So what is this, this Young Artist at Work program?

Thank you so much for having me.

We're so excited you're here.

You are.

Before you get into it.

Don't tell Nathan or Marc or Jennifer, okay?

But you are one of my favorite.

Hey, Arts Commissioner, please.

And I think the audience will soon realize why.

And that is because of your, enthusiasm and your your genuine passion for what you do with your.

So let's talk about what that is.

Thanks, Gretchen.

You're one of my favorite board members.

Actually, I appreciate that you qualify that to board members.

Yeah, I know, yeah, I know.

I know that one of my favorite Toledo and that one of my favorite people.

No.

Absolutely not.

Of of all of the people that I'm obligated to be kind to.

You are one of my favorite.

You're one of the make it easy.

We have a great board.

We do it.

It's hard.

Right?

All right.

So, what is young artist at work?

Young artist at work is a six week paid, paid summer employment opportunity for teens in our area, ages 14 to 18, where they get paid to make art and learn about careers in the creative industries and help make our city more beautiful.

They make friends and they make memories while making money.

The Arts Commissio has been doing this since 1994.

Tell us a little bit about what they do week over week.

Sure.

Well, the first week is kind of awkward because everyone is shy an they don't know each other yet.

And then by the third week, they're all best friends.

So it's kind of funny.

And then by the end, they don't want to leave.

And it's kind of a transformative six week immersive summer.

So the day to day each team is workin on a project for the community, and they're also making artwork to sell at the end of the summer.

So, they're learning about marketing art, how sometimes people don't want to buy copy written, you know, Disney princess anime drawings.

There's rules about what you can sell and what the market is and what is the quality of what you want to sell.

So, they get to learn new techniques and access to supplies tha they might not have at school.

And also, it's the first time they're making something that's not just in their sketchbook for themselves or for an art class and not being graded.

This is a job, so they have to work with clients and get feedback.

And that's good for any job that you're going to have for the rest of your life.

Like I got to believe, I think about, you know, we talk about musical theater all the time, right?

As I was a kid, as I was getting ready to go to college, I remember telling my parents I wanted to major in musical theater and my dad's saying, and he he denies this, which is why it's my show.

I'll share with you.

But says, like, you're not going to get a degree in unemployment.

But I think about like so many parents when they look at this, that's why he's so sad today.

That's right.

Yeah.

That's right.

Because I got one.

It.

Joke's on him right.

But I, but I think, you know, when you look at, you know, I think about the conversation that my parents have with me that I, that I see so many other parents having, having worked in education for so long and seeing students that are incredibly talented at art, but their parents, the community around them, they sound like you can't make a living doing this.

So to to actually employ high school age students as paid professional artists is such a cool idea.

The starving artist narrative is a myth.

People have been making art since people have been alive.

And so, especially i our area, the arts and culture sector has more GD than like glass and automotive.

So people don't ever think about that when they think about Toledo.

But it's true.

And also these young artists are working 30 hours a week above minimum wage, and some of them are out earnin their parents over the summer.

So they are bringing in money to their household that that affects their bottom line.

What is, you know, as you'v gotten involved in this program, what has kind of been your your moment?

With this and what do you wha do you love the most about it?

Obviously things are bleak right now, but working with young people really gives me hope for the future because they care and it's good for them to kind of come together and process.

Art is just processing.

It's all humans just trying to storytelling.

Figure out why they're here and how to process life.

So it's cool when to hea the perspective of young people, but it's also fun to watch the blossom from a 14 year old shy artist to, you know, a young leader.

And so that makes it fun and easy to come back to you.

And they they love it too.

So is it just visual arts o is it are there other varieties?

I mean, can they is it can also be writing.

Is it what what else is it?

Great question.

It's mainly visual art now.

But over the years we've had a dance team.

Theater team.

In 2004, they created an album that was really, really good.

So, it depends on the year and the staff, whatever their expertise is is kind of what they what we do.

So if we hire a photographer or a fiber artist, we'll focus on that more and then tell us about the community projects.

One of the things that the recent ones that many people may have seen, we just for talking about the night market, which people might go down to this weekend.

But as you're approachin the farmer's market on here on there' this huge, glorious, beautiful.

So my favorite colors mural that goes along that entire building that was a your project?

Yes.

On the Libbey Glass Factory outlet building, the street market.

There's a large mural, which Leah Timmerman came in, from the West Coast to help out with.

It was one of the biggest projects we've ever done.

And it was it was a really impressive feat.

And, you know, I sent a picture to her and I said, just remember that building you were storing all your art supplies in or those kittens were being born.

That's now a really fancy ice cream store and all this other stuff.

So I was like, Toledo's kind of changing.

This little corner has been transformed, and it's you know, due in par to some of the beautification.

What are some of the other projects that I've worked on in the past?

The community projects?

Sure.

That's a huge one that people would recognize righ across the street from that on, the farmers market itself is a mural.

There's, you know, art.

If over the 30 years there have been all kinds of projects those robots down by Imagination Station were young artist artwork projects.

I think when our CEO, Mark Fulk, was an instructor back in the 90s.

And then, why do you say it like that back in the 90s?

Because I make a joke that's been there because she probably wasn't born then back in the back in the 90s I got to answer that question.

I know the answer to it.

I don' I learned not to make the joke.

It's people don't like it when I do it all the way back in the day.

And by people, you mean people that were in high school in the 90s.

So I was I wasn't in high school in the 90s.

Again, we just got finished saying, that's annoying.

We actually just hired somebody who's a teacher who was in the program in the 90s.

So people always come back, alumni come back, teachers come back.

We have second generation apprentices whose parents were in the program.

So I think that's a testament to the impact of the program.

When people come back, you get let's talk about the just process.

I know for this year it's already finished.

How many applicants do you get?

What are they applying for?

What do they present as part of their application?

And then the Who look at the applications to decide.

Great question.

Okay.

Typically we begin our recruitment kind of at the end of the year, beginning of the year, and then we close it pretty early.

Most kids star looking for a summer job in May.

We have to already have hired them because we interview over 100 applicants and we hire 45 apprentices, at least.

So, they apply online at the Arts commission.org, and then we have volunteers interview everyone.

So if if you submitted, you're invited to interview, if you show up and you're asked just about yourself and your art practice and if you have any art to show, great.

If not, I say write a poem on the way over here, because not every 14 year old has had a job or has a portfolio.

But the idea is, as an apprentice, you're learning on the job, and if you get hired, you would leave with all of that stuff and you know how to apply for a job when you get back.

So we do know it is the earliest professional development for some people.

So those are all really good questions.

They're asked about, you know, their art practice and who they are and, what they want to do this summer.

And so it's more competitive for the returning apprentices who want to come back.

They know what they're interviewing for, and they know what's at stake.

And they want to spend their summer this way.

And you don't kno if you've ever done it before.

You're just kind of like, yeah, I need a job, you know?

Yeah, yeah.

Back in 2017, 2018, I was working at Cardinal Stritch and they created a class that was public art.

That was that that to our teachers we had at the time were fantastic.

But they were taking kids out and they were doing murals and public ar and studying it and creating it.

And that was before it really feels like this moment right now.

We're really embracing public art in, in a new and creative way.

I'm curious if that momentum is changing some of the, some of the experience the students are having coming in some of thei educational experiences.

Right.

Are the are the art classes taking on more public art mural projects versus like, hey, here's a canvas, go make your own thing.

Cardinal Stritch, I kno another Catholic school center is doing a mural class as well, so I think that's wonderful for people to work on sit and also work collaboratively.

I think a lot of artists are in their studio alone and so there's something like a mural where you have to interact with the community, share your ideas, be vulnerable, get feedback, and rejection is a really good exercise for everybody.

So I think so.

But I also think there are some kids who don't have art in their schools, and that's why they lov young artists that work, because I don't really get to do this during the school year.

So, I don't have access to this kind of supplies or this kind of mentorship, and we have wonderful artists that we work with.

So, yes, I would say, yeah.

But I'd also say that it's, supplementing some other art programs and even socialization.

Some of these kids had like during the pandemic, you know, they needed to kind of heal from that together.

Are you an artist?

I my background is in dance and performance in theater.

Are you guys talk about musical theater a lot?

I love theater, I love working with theater people.

I think that people are the best.

It's one of the best professional development that a kid can have to get a job later.

Because they understand that it's not about them.

It's teamwork.

We have a deadline.

We are like everybody is relying on each other.

So I love theater people.

I went to Toledo School for the Arts, which made me an advocate for young people having access to the arts.

I don't know where I'd be without TSA.

I got a free education I got to dance for hours a day.

I would have never been abl to afford to get that training.

So arts access.

I didn't mean to stay in youth arts, but, that just so happened.

I volunteered for the Art Commission a lot, and here I am.

But it was important t me and it wasn't important to me that I'd become a professional artist.

Or that I'm good at art at all.

I'm not.

But I think it's important for us to have access to it, because.

What?

Like I said, processing or the human experience and having empathy for other people.

I don't know if I had had I not gone to my school and had gone to my public school, if I'd have the same understanding and curiosity about other people and cultures and what's something that people don't understand or might be a misconception of, whether it be youth, young artists, the kind of breaking into the art profession, I think you don't have to be invited.

I think people are like, they want some.

They're waiting for something to happen.

It's like, just do it.

Just make.

And with young people, I think culturally we think art's for kids because that's when we get it, which when we most get access to it.

But it's for everybody.

And, yeah, I was last time I was on a soundstage, I was recruiting for young artists at work, and I, was they were like, oh, that's so great because it's not even a real job.

And I'm like, is this live?

Because I was so offended.

I was like, it's really hard work.

Especially when you're out there in the hot sun painting all day or, you know, just working with it's good for people to have like a class clash because these kids, we have kid who don't need to work at all, and we have kids who need a job no matter what.

And, it's really good for them to be like, oh, they don't have art supplies at home.

Like, yeah, they don't have food at home, you know?

So I think it's it's a little bit different than your school, but it's very much like having a job.

It's like you would never meet these people.

And it's just like other layer is just another level that this program allows kids to be able when they're interacting with one another.

Tell us a little bit about what happens at the end of the season.

There's a big I have several pieces in my home that I purchase from the art show.

So tell us about that.

And the public is invited to that.

Yes.

The public.

Hello listeners and viewers.

I love listening to the radio.

I love public radio.

So if you're tuned in, thank you.

Why don't you come to the art sale?

It's going to be actually the school for the Arts this year.

It's Thursday, July 23rd, from 5 to 8.

It's in the evening.

We also have an alumni exhibition that'll be up in the portal Gallery.

So over the 30 years, all the young artist that came through they're welcome to come submit artwork to that exhibition, check it out.

And then we're going to sell the artwork.

We make this summer.

Like I said, Thursday, July 23rd from 5 to 8 at Toledo School for the Art.

And it's a free event.

It's free.

Of course.

We're talking with Natalie Gray from the Arts Commission, Young Artists at Work.

If people want more information on young artists at work, where can they find it?

At the Arts commission.org.

Awesome.

All right, it's no time for Gretchen's wacky quiz.

I used to say it just to say it.

That's wacky quiz.

That's good.

It's okay.

Yeah.

Thank you I love it.

All right, you ready?

We go.

Gretchen's way is, All right, I'm gonna ask for rapid fire questions.

Gretchen's going to ask yo to describe Toledo in one word, and then you're going to list your nine favorite things in or about Toledo.

All right.

Question number one.

What's your favorite word in another language?

And I think FCC regulations still apply outside English in another language.

Chow I like it.

What was the first thing you thought about when you woke up today?

Ooh, I was just so nervous about this.

I would wake up every, like, hour, like, oh, wait, I have to get up this morning and go to the meeting.

You're doing great.

You got nightmares about which animal best represents your personality.

Okay.

These are rapid fire questions.

Yeah.

An animal?

Yeah, a dolphin.

Okay, I like it.

We don't even ask follow ups.

No, I'm just going to let that float out there.

Head atmosphere.

Have you ever eate a whole pizza by yourself?

Sure.

Obviously the dumbest question.

Of course I did this morning.

And last night is not okay.

What's the one word you would use to describe the city of Toledo or the region?

Cheap, I mean, affordable.

Got it.

Either way, I like it.

Yeah.

Nine things.

Okay.

Nine of your favorite things.

Nine of the best things in Toledo, according to Natalie Gray.

The people at it, I would say the food situation.

Yeah What's your favorite restaurant?

Beirut.

Got it obviously done.

Obviously.

Okay.

Affordability, And, I like the Midwestern niceness.

I don't realize that.

We were so nic to tell you what?

Anywhere else?

Yeah.

Okay.

And these are rapid fire questions.

I would say I live in the old.

The old.

I said I love the historic neighborhood.

Got it.

You got three more.

Three more thing that I love about Toledo, man.

How could I narrow it down?

I would say the parks.

I was listening to some of your episodes, and I was thinking about the city parks in the metro parks?

Yeah, that was my joke.

I was going to put the tw different ones, the city parks and the mayor talks about counted as one.

Okay.

And then I have two more.

Yep.

The art, of course.

I mean, that's why I'm still here.

Yeah.

And then, my family's here.

Got it.

That's why I'm still here.

Yay!

Natalie, thank you so much.

Thank you.

Yes, it's the, the mural by the Irish Street Market was kind of my first awareness of young artists at work.

A student of ours, a Cardinal Stritch, was involved in that project.

And it was just.

So it's so cool to see it pop up.

The work you guys are doing.

The arts commission is incredible.

So thank you so much again, one more time.

If people want more information on the Arts Commission or young artists at work, give me a website where they can find it.

Go to the Arts Commission board for more information.

Art is work.

And thank you so much for having me.

Awesome.

Natalie Gray, thank you so much.

When we take a break, when we come back, we will be joined by, I think, Scott Schwab.

Yep.

Talking Moses Fleetwood Walker.

We'll be right back on the 419.

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I'm Danny Miller and welcome to the point I love.

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We said at the top of the show, there's incredible folks in Toledo, that have got passions that they're excited to spread to make our community a better place.

We're joined now by local attorney, legendary attorney, legend, Gretchen.

Gretchen, statement.

Scott Schwab, thank you so much for joining us.

Scott, I've been on my kind of show notes.

It says that you're here to talk about Moses Fleetwood Walker.

Obviously, I'm.

I'm a baseball fan.

I'm a Mud Hens fan.

But admittedly I don't know enough about Moses Fleetwood Walker, so let's let's start there.

If people aren't familia who is Moses Fleetwood Walker?

Okay.

Well, thank you bot for having me on this morning.

Moses is, by our accounts, locally, the first black professional baseball player in the major leagues.

He was born in 1857, and he, played one year in 1884 for the Toledo Blue Stockings, who at that time were a member of the American Association, which was a major League Baseball team at that time.

It was they were sort of in competition with the National League.

They were the lesser major league, but they were a major League Baseball team.

And Moses was, had played in Toledo the prior year fo the International League team, and they became again a major league team.

But he was, a catcher and, well respected as a, as a player.

And, I can give yo and there's a dispute as to who who the who peop othe people may believe was the first black player in the league.

There is a there is a reference in some of the, some of the mythology, about a ballplayer who played in 1879, one game, in the major leagues.

I can't recall his name offhand, but he, was of mixed blood, but passed as a white player.

And for that reason, most of the historians thinks it's.

I think it's more appropriate to to make Moses the first.

And what happened to the league?

He played for it.

Did it become one or did it just go away?

It it went away.

Okay.

There was a lot of transition.

Back in the 1880s there were a number of leagues that came and went both the American Association, the Western League, the Eastern League, but a lot of, the only thing that was stable was the National League, which carries on obviously today, as does the American League, which really started to get entrenched right around 1900.

And just before that.

Kevin has probably many more better questions than I have.

But no, the people were playing baseball in the 1800s.

Where what where did it come from?

Did some like was it after some other sport from someplace else?

Was it do you kno what the origins of the actual the kind of game they were playing then was?

Well, they were playing the game similar to what's played now 60ft, six inche most perfect distance in sports.

This still was the was the distance then and they played in Toledo a League Park, which is actually, downtown on fifth.

Well not now at 15th Street downtown and had played prior to that out, in the Point Place area at an earlier ballpark.

Why?

I mean, Jackie Robinson is, is sort of most famously recognized as breakin the color barrier in baseball.

Why why does Moses Fleetwood not get the same recognition, a question that the society here has been asking for a long time.

But, Jackie Robinson, some of the literature will tell you, integrated baseball, Moses Fleetwood Walker and the activity that surrounded him segregated baseball in 1884.

He was, almost universally castigated by a lot of the the, the, the higher ups in baseball and, only because it's sort of a dichotomy, you know, there was a lot of animus against him.

There was a lot of animus.

Is Branch Rickey brought Jackie Robinson in to integrate.

And and it's it's it's an interesting balance.

What's what's your hope like for the for the society.

What's the goal?

To bring information about Moses to everyone.

And, and we've been around for 20 years now.

I would be, derelict if I didn't mention Peter Wagner, who formulated the society about 20 years ago, who's a local attorne and and got it off the ground.

And our friend John Hussman, who's a local treasure, who I'm sure you know, Kevin Reed, who's, who wrote, Baseball in Toledo, which is a I recommend the book if you haven't read it and are interested.

And also writes for the, Society of American Baseball.

Research.

Saber.

And frankly anything I tell you about Moses, I'm pirating from John so I want to give props to him.

What else do we kno about Moses's life at that time?

So Moses was born in 1857.

You're hitting my strong spot now.

Got it?

Got it.

He was born in Ohio, which is interesting.

He's in Ohio, Guy born in Mount Pleasant, which is in eastern Ohio, near Steubenville.

And was raised in a community that was a Quaker community and sort of an abolitionist stronghold.

There's some question, if you read the various research as clearly his father, was a mixed race, gentleman.

His mothe either was white or mixed race.

You can find either in the in the references.

His father was a physician, which was unusual for the time.

And, ultimately, if he was practicing medicine, he ended up practicing, for a short time.

And then was a preacher and in the Methodist church and was ultimately placed that at a church in Steubenville.

And that's where Moses and hi brother, well, they, were raised of of all the things that you could spend your free time doing, of all of the fights that you could pick acros northwest Ohio in the country.

Why why is this, like, what what what got you interested in this?

And and why do you continue to to pour your heart into it?

Again, I'm a baseball fanatic.

I, I'm interested in Moses only because, Well, not only because, but because of the fact that he's he broke a lot of barriers at the time and he met a lot of resistance and persevered.

And when he left Toledo, when he left the ball team in Toledo he actually lived here through, I think, 1986 or 19 or 19, 1886.

Yeah.

1887.

And raised three kids here as as young children, before he moved on to Syracuse and, he just, he's a Renaissance man.

You know, the part that that is important to me in addition to his basebal is that once he left the game, he was an inventor.

He was a businessman.

He worked for the post office.

He did a year in prison for mail robbery.

He.

He is many faceted.

But growing up, he he, started out at Oberlin University, which at the time was the first university.

Not at that time.

Still is the first university to have an open admissions policy for African-Americans.

He was there for three years.

He played baseball.

And his last year there, Oberlin beat the University of Michigan in a ball game, which caught the attentio of the University of Michigan.

And I don't know if there were nipples there.

I suspect not, but they recruited Moses to com to the University of Michigan.

And he went to Michigan and in 1882 played for the U of M and, most of the research wil tell you that he was the first black varsity athlete at U of M. Wow.

For the University of Michigan, studied law, studied law.

That's quite that's quite a legacy.

Could you, in 1884, live on the earnings of bein a professional baseball player?

Reportedly okay, because he was, if no a star, a very solid ballplayer.

His earnings were estimated maybe at about $2,000 a year, which at a time when laborers were probably making 10 or $1 a week, was a very good living.

And so he yes, he did do well.

And the thought is that the the money that he earned while he was playing ball allowed him to go on and ente into a lot of business ventures.

Which he did after he left baseball.

Do you know what he what he invented?

I do he invented two very disparate things, which is interesting.

He invented and patented an exploding artillery shell.

Okay.

Which for which the patent exists.

And he was a projectionist, at a he owned opera houses both in Cleveland and then for a long time, all over the map in Cadiz.

I don't know if I'm saying that.

Right.

Cadiz, Ohio, And spent, a lot of the 19 teens running that opera house there with his brother, and they did live shows and movies, and he invented, a two reel projection system that allowed you to know when the first real was going to be done.

So they start the second reel.

Exactly.

Right.

That's also patented.

And I'm not even telling you the good part of his legacy, which is in in 1891, when he was playing at Syracuse, some of the local citizens, late one night, while probably under the influence, accosted him.

He caused the death of one of his assailants, stabbing him in the groin.

He went to trial in Syracuse in front of a jury of 12 white males, essentially representing himself, and was acquitted.

Oh my goodness of murder.

Which, given the context of the time situation I've thought about the fact that in 1890, those jurors, if they were 50 years old, not unreasonable, had fought in a civil war.

Right.

You know, it's it's astounding kind of standing if you put it in context.

But the, that trial, was then, that trial became a play written by a gentleman by the name of Irvin Gardner called The Trial of Moses Fleetwood Walker, which, was, put on in Chicago at th in the Black Ensemble Theater, which I will tell you, I have you seen it?

I went to see it.

Yeah.

That's amazing.

And and read the play.

What a story.

Yeah.

We're talking with Scott Schwab about Moses Fleetwood Walker.

What what do you hope people, you know, I mean, obviously there's a side of this that, you know, let's give credit where credit is due.

Yeah, but what's the what's the lesson that you're hoping people take from this, you know, from learning more about about Moses.

Just for all the absolute appropriate props that go to Jackie Robinson.

Moses was pretty cool.

Yeah.

You know, Moses did a lot of stuff, and Moses suffered, a lot of, abuse on the field and off.

When I was at the Hall of Fame several years ago, and the black, experience was at they had an exhibit there, and they had the lette that was sent to the Toledo team when they were on their wa to play in Richmond, and I won't I have the letter, but essentially said, if the Negro catcher suits up, we can't guarantee his safety on the field.

And, if you think about that, and now, in fairness, he got hurt and didn't play in that game.

Yeah.

So they avoided the possible conflict.

But I think he would have played as they could have.

What's something that people should, try to perceive or notice the next time they go to a Mud Hens game, when you go in the main gate at the corner of Washington and Huron, you are walking through Moses Fleetwood Walker Plaza, which is the name obviously given, to the entrance to the ballpark, which is a fitting tribute.

And, and, take a look and have an idea of what what you're about.

And did the society have any role in making sure that that was part of he was part of the new stadium?

I would like to say we did.

Okay.

But, you know, I'm just sayin we agree that we agreed with it.

But, but the society goes on and, and just very quickly we've been around for 20 years.

We raise funds through an annual, event, which funds, inner city baseball now through the city league.

And we have, over the years donated to the, Boys and Girls Club, their programing, the Toledo pal program.

Yeah.

And we, hope to continue to fund inner city baseball.

It's everyone's hope or, you know, in the society that that baseball will, if it has bottomed out, that it will start to thrive and continue.

Is there a place where people can get more information about the society or how to support it, or learn more about Moses Fleetwood Walker?

You can call me.

Okay.

And I'd be happy to talk to you.

Okay.

And I think, John, I think at one point, John's contact information was on the Mud Hens website.

John Housema as the team historian as well.

He is a treasure.

I mean, he's a wealth o knowledge and and like I said, 80% of what you heard from me is stuff that that, John has researched and written about.

Thank you.

Thank you so much.

I was so interesting.

We appreciate we take a break when we come back, we'll be joined by Maureen Brogan from the original sub shop.

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Welcome back into the 419 powered by ZTE.

We're joined now by Maureen Brogan from the original sub shop downtown.

Thank you so much for being here.

Thanks for having me.

Where, where an what is the original sub shop?

So the original sub shop and deli is on Broadway and Knapp Street, just south of downtown.

So when you see that really beautiful mural of MLK directly across the street, and then when you're coming up from, the south of Toledo, as soon as you se Cesar Chavez, it's on the left, which is where you're goin to see Frida Kahlo for, mural.

Yeah, yeah.

And there's a big Frida Kahl mirror on your building.

Yeah.

And then you can you can fin your whole way just by murals.

Yeah.

It's pretty cool.

It's cool.

What, what's the history of, the of the shop.

So the original sub shop and deli was founded in 1979 by the most adorable couple on the planet, Jackie and Saki David, who just wanted to go to work with each other every day.

They just wanted to make food and go to work together.

And they raised two kids and they put both kids through college with it.

And, then eventually they were getting ready to retire, and I became a regular just around that time.

And I used to jok with them and say, oh, you guys, I have to stop talking and and fooling around.

I got to get back to work.

But at first I need enough, you know time to go get a lottery ticket, because of course, I'm going to win the lottery.

I had to $1 million.

Yeah.

You know, you guys will go out and play with your kids in Washington state, and I'll stay here.

Yeah.

We would all laugh, and then she'd say, oh, honey, it's not going to cost a million.

And when they were getting ready to retire they called me up and they said.

So we realized tha you make that joke all the time.

Are you actually interested?

And here we are about almost 11 years later.

And you believe 11 years, 11 years.

I have no idea how.

And so what were you what were you doing?

What were you at the time?

So I oh, geez.

Like 8 million things.

So I was a, social media manager.

I was a copywriter.

I did, I did actually all of the social media for, Smucker's and sidelines and al kinds of fun things like that.

And, I had, just gotten done starting a bakery, which now provides all of my bread, which is pretty cool.

So all crumbs is you do it.

I had no idea.

My mind blown.

So all crumbs, for those that don't know, is a bakery on Adams Street.

They they set up at the farmer's market.

Best best, best best bread.

It's so good.

They're wonderful.

And perfect on your sandwiches.

So you helped to found that, and then you did not know that that.

And then the, there was a food truck somewhere in between there.

Yeah And I helped a friend with and.

Yeah, you was always addicte to working in the food industry when you took over, the business.

You took the whole brick and mortar thing with you.

I mean, you have.

This is a this is a freestanding building.

Yeah.

And so you took over, the operation of quite an old establishment.

Yes.

As well.

So what has what have those challenges been like?

So buying a 35 year old business is kind of the best thing on the planet, because you have 35 years with the people who adore it completely built in, and the danger of it is movin too fast and not proving to the like already existing regulars that you're not going to ruin it, right?

Because that is the worst.

When somebody buys your favorite restaurant and then everything changes immediately.

Yeah, and you're like, I don't really get the chance to, you know, so taking taking the time that was needed to actually get to know everybody and to make sure that I earned their trust before I changed anything.

I think the I think I got that in July.

And, the only thing I changed, for the first year was I moved a tree inside.

And that caused and that was pandemonium.

No, not at all.

They were just like, oh a little different.

Okay, okay.

But I did not change any of the menu or anything for at least a year because I wanted everybody to be comfortable.

Yeah.

So I just kind of starte to wiggle my own style in there through like the paninis and specials and things like, well, let's talk about the menu for thos that maybe haven't been there.

And also they must be there must be something wrong with them.

But the opening for people when they need it, there are people that haven't been there.

Tell u sort of highlights on the menu.

I, Kevin and I could both pick our thing, but so the highlights on the menu.

So the menu is kind of, separated out into now, you know, the sandwiches that were originally there, the original originals and then the new originals.

So the sandwiches that have been on the menu for 46 years, for a reason.

Because they're delicious.

Yeah.

The Italian and the, you know, the origina and all that kind of fun stuff.

The Mediterranean vegetables, like, so good.

Just things that I didn't appreciate nearly enough when I when I first bought the place.

And then I just, I'm in love with now and then over to lik the new originals and the goats, which have a little bit more fun ingredients, a lot more, like farmer's market driven kind of ideas than the goats I really like.

The goats are where it's at.

Where did the ideas for these for the new, for new menu items come from?

So some of them come from things that I have liked my whole life, and some of the come from something delicious.

But I ate somewhere els where I start thinking about it and dreaming about it and wanting it.

And so I figure out a way to kind of change it up and make it fit for the sub shop.

The Angry Goat, actually, is kind of which is the name of a sandwich.

Oh yeah.

Those are might not know.

And it's, it's actually kind of like the perfect ified version of a bagel I used to eat from berries growing up.

I used to get a blueberry bage with cream cheese and pastrami, and my family thought I was insane.

But the sweet and salty and.

Yeah.

And so now the the angry goat has pastrami and the goat cheese and ja and it's, it's the same thing, just the grown up version.

Tell us a little bit about your life.

In Toledo.

Are you are you from here or are you?

Move here.

Tell us a little bit about growing up, in your family life here.

So I'm from Toledo, Ohio.

Born and raised.

We started out in the old West End, grew up mostly in West Toledo, and, have just constantly fallen in love with it at every turn.

When I was, graduating from high school, the kind of th theme was to, like, move away.

You got to get out, kind of get out, get out.

But I was really lucky to fall into a group of people who really, really loved stiletto.

And so they were making t shirts, you know, boring people hate.

Toledo was one of my favorite ones.

And, you know, they would have these great t shirts there, you know, Portland and then, you know, the baseball style.

Yeah.

I mean, it's just, you know, doesn't need you.

Yeah.

In the back would say Viva Toledo.

Yeah.

And it was really fun to get involved with people who actually wanted to change our city.

And I just got lucky enough to fall right into that.

What are some things that you do when you have tha you still enjoy doing in Toledo, assuming you ever have a minute where you're not working as an entrepreneur and a business owner, but what what are some, or community organizations that you're involved in?

Well, I am constantly in love with the Arts Commission.

I did a lot of work with the Arts Commission.

That really led me, shockingly, to the stop shop.

I was told.

Well, we've been we've been kind of watching you and how you move to the community.

And so my wor with Automatic Forward nine was, a really big mover that actually ended up with me at the club shop.

And part of the reason that I am where I am, so I love anything I could do with the Arts Commission.

I love, but it's it's hard to do 8 million things, but I really miss I missed a lot of volunteer work.

I would like to do a little bit more, which I've been more you broker with the original sub shop downtown.

Taking over a long established business.

I mean, you say it's the greatest thing to do because you've got this loyal fan base, but there's also a lot of pressure because there's a reputatio and a tradition to take that on.

Yes.

What was kind of th the first big challenge you had?

And what was the moment when when you realized that this was now yours?

Oh, it still doesn't feel like mine.

I don't really understand how time works.

So, yeah, you're still feels brand new, right.

But I was lucky enoug to be so involved with companies that were really in tune with branding and voice, and I was extra lucky to stumble upon the sub shop where the voice already matched mine.

It was already a place.

The first time I walked in the door, I felt comfortable and happy and fell completely in love with it.

And I'm lucky enough that it already kind of fit, and that they were already people who I mean, they had the longest running, poetry reading, in the cit for years and years and years.

And they always had local artists on the wall, and it fit so well with everything I was doing with the Arts Commission already.

So it was kind of nice to be able to swoop in and continue, like amplifying that voice.

But, makin sure that making sure that you keep up with the quality of food is that's insanely hard.

Consistency is the hardest thing that you will ever find.

What what has been we talked little bit before this segment, but I'm going to touch up here.

What what has been an ite on the menu that you have just poured and poured in, poured into, to make sure you get right.

Honestly, that would be the angry because is as crazy as it sounds.

The, ingredients are always changing.

It doesn't matter if you buy it from the same company.

Especially after the pandemic, all of the, supply chain, everything completely changed.

So you're constantly dealin with ever so slightly different.

Ingredients and you're trying to make sure that the quality stays the same, where a company changes and gets bought and everything goes downhill, like, you always have to be paying attention to that.

So pouring into that and making sure that's the other reason we use, different jams all the time so that you kind of don't get bored of it.

Yeah.

You know there's like a base flavor to it that, you know, you're going to adore.

And then there should be a little tiny surprise in it at all times.

Yeah.

So you have to make sure that you're constantly changing just enough to keep it interesting, but not enough to completely throw off your your beloved regulars.

You also have a, which seems unusual for a sub shop, but you also have a chocolate chip cookie that you believe you've perfected.

My definition of perfection i crispy edge, more soft middle.

So yes.

Is that what you believe?

You've perfected that I it took me 20 years to perfect that.

Yeah.

Is it I think it's it's not.

What is it you're not going to say.

Is it the butter?

Is it the temperature of the butter?

It's.

If I keep guessing.

What you saying I was.

I'm not a gatekeeper.

I'll tell you everything.

Okay.

So it's.

And it has to do with the vanilla, dark brown sugar instead of light.

But the vanilla, really?

The vanilla was a veiled trick because.

So, do you use pace now or do you?

You know, I use, I actually use mostly, mostly real vanilla.

I but there has to be a splash of imitation because you kind of get that little candy effect.

Yeah, which sounds a little bit crazy, but.

Oh, it just drove me nuts.

I had the perfect vanilla and I loved it.

And, they discontinued it i 2020 and it absolutely drove me nuts for about a year tryin to find the perfect combination.

And, you know, if it has too much if the if it has too much alcohol in it, it makes it too crispy in to dry.

There's so many tiny details to it.

It's science.

And I love that.

And I finally, at some point in the last several years, gave up trying everybody else's recipes and finally decided, okay, this is the ingredient I like for this, and this is this, and I want this to be chewier.

So I want more fat and this and that.

And finally got it to the point where it's the same cookie every time.

So I so I'm so interested in this that it's from a, you know, friends of mine that own and run restaurants.

So I always ask them the same similar question.

You've got so much passion around this.

And I mean, you say like it still doesn't feel like it's yours but the reality is it is right and you act as though it's yours every day.

How do you get the folks that work with you to to take that same level of ownership and pride?

Well, I am the luckiest person you will ever meet.

It is absolutely factual.

Wow.

And I'm really lucky that when I, advertise that I'm looking for people, there are people who already love the shop that want to work there.

There are people who haven't had a chance to work there where they say, you know, well, I needed to do this, this and this, and now I'm finally ready to be able to do, you know, a little bit more food work and they can enjoy it.

But also making sure that you listen to your employees, which I try to do as hard as I can, and making sure that anything they want to do is listen to you because that was one of my least favorite things coming up in restaurants was when you had a really good idea and you thought it would really, you know, customers make something great, be really great, and it even aligns with, you know, the brandin and the message and everything, you know, and then, you know, the owner doesn't have enough time to even think about it.

So if somebody has a an idea that they're excite about letting them run with it, it's the best thing you can do.

What does the future look like for the sub shop and for you?

Like, do you, do you ar you thinking about next things?

Are you what's your plan?

Kind of the plan is it's the plan is always to be loving up the building.

Because of course, if you buy a building anything over 100 years old, you're just.

You're just the steward.

Yeah.

You were just there to make sure that it stays happy and dr and yeah, dry and as well loved.

And you know all the ghosts are taking care.

Yeah.

That's right.

That's how we feel about Gretchen.

Yes it is.

Yeah.

Same exact thing, girl.

If somebody has never been to the original sub shop, they're going in for the first time.

What?

What should they.

What should they order or what should they do?

Okay, s if they are an adventurous eater and they like spicy, they should immediately go for the angry go because it also has our housemade habanero hot sauce on it.

And if they are a traditional eater, they should immediately go for the original so they can have something that's been beloved for 46 years.

What is the original?

The original is ham, mortadella and salami, and it is smoky and delicious and bizarrely refreshing.

Yeah, the Reuben is also fantastic.

Reuben is wild.

I'm very proud of that.

It's so good.

It's so good.

Yeah.

So, Maureen, thank you.

Thank you so much.

Now we have to go to people want.

So give me the address and force it here to Broadway.

And then you guys have a website, social media, original sub.com and then you can follow us on, the Instagram and Facebook.

Awesome.

Maureen, thank you so much.

I'm so hungry.

Now, I know we're gonna take a break just so I can run to the original sub shop and get a sandwich.

We'll be right back on the 419 every day.

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I didn't make it to the sub shop.

You didn't get back in time, but I will today.

Yeah, yeah, I absolutely, I love it this is a great show.

A great show.

And again, I sai at the very beginning of show, but this is part of what I love about this program is we've got great people in Toledo.

I'm sure, I'm sure you still hear this.

People are like, how do you find guests every day?

Yeah.

And the reality is we will never run out of people that are passionate about this community, passionate about something.

Everyone has a passion that they want to talk about.

And I think it's just an example of talking to our friends and neighbors and maybe caring about some of the things they care about.

And these these three individuals are definitely the embodiment of that.

Some great events happening.

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