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TED: COMING UP NEXT ON "ARIZONA HORIZON," THE PRESIDENT OF THE NATIONAL EDUCATION ASSOCIATION JOINS US IN STUDIO TO TALK ABOUT THE STATE OF PUBLIC EDUCATION IN ARIZONA AND AROUND THE COUNTRY.

>>> ALSO THE BLACK THEATER TROUPE IS SET WITH ANOTHER NEW SEASON OF PERFORMANCES.

>>> AND WHAT FOSSILS DISCOVER BY LOCAL RESEARCHERS SUGGEST ABOUT HUMAN EVOLUTION?

THOSE STORIES AND MORE NEXT ON "ARIZONA HORIZON."

.

TED: GOOD EVENING, AND WELCOME TO "ARIZONA HORIZON."

I'M TED SIMONS.

PUBLIC SCHOOLS IN ARIZONA AND AROUND THE COUNTRY ARE FACING SERIOUS ISSUES REGARDING FUNDING, TEACHER ATTENTION AND DECLINING STUDENT ACHIEVEMENT.

EARLIER TODAY, THE HEAD OF THE NATIONAL EDUCATION ASSOCIATION, BECKY PRINGLE, JOINED US TO DISCUSS THESE AND OTHER ISSUES.

BECKY PRINGLE.

SO NICE TO MEET YOU.

SUCH A PLEASURE TO HAVE YOU HERE.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

WE'RE GOING TO TALK EDUCATION, AND MY FIRST QUESTION IS, THE STATE OF PUBLIC EDUCATION IN AMERICA RIGHT NOW.

WHAT DO YOU SEE?

>> YOU KNOW, I TAUGHT MIDDLE LEVEL LEARNERS, EIGHTH GRADE MOSTLY.

THE WONDERS OF SCIENCE FOR 31 YEARS BEFORE I BECAME AN OFFICER IN THE NATIONAL EDUCATION ASSOCIATION, AND SO I'VE SEEN A LOT OF THINGS.

I HAVE, THROUGHOUT MY MANY YEARS IN PUBLIC EDUCATION.

RIGHT NOW, THE ATTACKS ON PUBLIC EDUCATION ITSELF ARE AT AN ALL-TIME HIGH, AND AS I LOOK AROUND THE COUNTRY STATE BY STATE, BUT MOST ESPECIALLY, AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL, THOSE ATTACKS ARE VICIOUS.

THEY'RE AIMED AT TEACHERS THEMSELVES, BUT MOSTLY THEY'RE AIMED AT THE SYSTEM OF PUBLIC EDUCATION, WHICH WE UNDERSTAND IS AT THE FOUNDATION OF THIS OR ANY DEMOCRACY, AND WE HAVE TO FIGHT TO MAKE SURE THAT IT EXISTS FOR OUR KIDS.

TED: WHY DO YOU THINK THOSE ATTACKS ARE HAPPENING?

>> I'M VERY CLEAR ABOUT WHY THE ATTACKS ARE HAPPENING.

MY DAD WAS A HISTORY TEACHER, AND HE HAD THREE GIRLS AND HE WOULD ALWAYS SIT US DOWN AND SAY REBECCA, YOU NEED TO KNOW YOUR HISTORY, FAMILY HISTORY, AMERICAN HISTORY, AND WORLD HISTORY, AND YOU'LL ALWAYS SEE THROUGHOUT TIME, AND NO MATTER WHERE YOU ARE, THE RISE AND FALL OF SOCIETIES AND EMPIRES AND GOVERNMENTS, AND IT ALWAYS STARTS WHEN WHOEVER IS IN A POSITION OF POWER TRIES TO TAKE AWAY THE RIGHT TO LEARN OF THOSE CITIZENS, AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE SEEING RIGHT NOW IN THIS COUNTRY.

TED: THAT'S WHAT WE'RE SEEING WITH PUBLIC EDUCATION, BUT CAN BE ARGUED THAT PRIVATE EDUCATION IS ON THE UPSWING.

IS THAT A GOOD THING OR BAD THING?

>> I'LL GO BACK TO WHAT I SAID, PUBLIC EDUCATION.

THE RIGHT OF EVERY STUDENT TO A FREE, UNIVERSAL, QUALITY, PUBLIC EDUCATION IS CORE TO A DEMOCRACY, AND SO WHILE PRIVATE EDUCATION HAS EXISTED IN THIS COUNTRY FOREVER, IT IS THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE GOVERNMENT OF THIS COUNTRY, AT EVERY LEVEL, LOCAL, STATE AND NATIONAL, TO PROTECT THAT RIGHT OF PUBLIC EDUCATION, AND ANY SIPHONING OF MONEY, TAX DOLLARS, AND PUTTING IT INTO PRIVATE SCHOOL, THEN EARNINGS RODS THAT RIGHT.

TED: THAT IS A BIG ISSUE IN ARIZONA, EDUCATIONS ESAs, DO WE HAVE A FEDERAL VOUCHER SYSTEM NOW?

IS THAT IN PLACE OR JUST TALKED ABOUT?

>> OH, WELL, IN THE BIG, BAD, TERRIBLE, REALLY NO GOOD BILL THAT PASSED OUT OF CONGRESS, THERE WAS A FEDERAL VOUCHER PROGRAM INCLUDED IN THAT, AND THE IMPACT OF THAT IS NOT -- HERE IN ARIZONA TOO, THAT ABSOLUTELY HAS AN IMPACT, EVEN THOUGH YOU WERE DOWN THE ROAD IN TERMS OF VOUCHERS, BUT IN THOSE STATES WHERE THEY DON'T HAVE FEDERAL VOUCHERS -- DON'T HAVE VOUCHERS, PROVIDES THE AVENUE TO ERODE THE PUBLIC FUNDING FROM THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

I VISITED A SCHOOL TODAY THAT TALKED A LOT ABOUT THAT, AND IT'S NOT ONLY PRIVATE SCHOOLS, BUT IN MANY CASES THE MARKET DRIVEN CHARTER SCHOOLS TOO, WHICH ARE SIPHONING MONEY OUT OF THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS, WHICH NECESSARILY MEANS THAT OUR PUBLIC SCHOOLS ARE LEFT WITH FEWER RESOURCES AND MORE TIMES THAN NOT, THE STUDENTS WHO NEED THE MOST MONEY, THE MOST -- THE MAJORITY OF RESOURCES, HIGHER AMOUNT RESOURCES TO EDUCATE THEM, IN PARTICULAR OUR STUDENTS WITH DISABILITIES, THEY ARE SENT BACK TO OUR PUBLIC SCHOOLS BUT THE FUNDS ARE NOT.

BY ANY MEASURE, WE KNOW THAT IS AN UNFAIR WAY TO HAVE A SYSTEM, AND WE KNOW THAT THAT IMPACTS, THAT IMPACTS EVERY SINGLE STUDENT IN THAT SCHOOL.

TED: THAT EMPHASIS ON PUBLIC EDUCATION THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, I WANT TO TALK ABOUT THOSE WHO SUPPORT VOUCHERS IN ARIZONA, BECAUSE IT DOES GO BACK AND FORTH, AND CERTAINLY MOST AT STATE LEGISLATURE, NOT A LOT, BUT THE REPUBLICAN MAJORITY SAY IT'S IMPORTANT TO HAVE STUDENTS AND PARENTS GIVE THEM A CHOICE TO GET OUT OF A FAILING SCHOOL AND INTO THE SCHOOL OF THEIR CHOICE WITH THEIR MONEY.

HOW DO YOU RESPOND TO THAT?

>> SO LET'S BE CLEAR, VOUCHER SCHEMES HAVE EXISTED IN THIS COUNTRY FOR QUITE A LONG TIME, AND WE LEARNED A LOT SINCE THAT.

YOU KNOW THAT THEY WERE PUT INTO PLACE IN A WAY AND WE TALKED ABOUT IT IN THIS WAY, THAT IT WAS GOOD TO HAVE COMPETITION, THAT VOUCHERS WOULD BRING ABOUT HIGHER STUDENT SUCCESS, AND ALL OF THOSE CLAIMS WERE MADE.

THAT NEVER CAME TO FRUITION, THAT NEVER BECAME TRUE.

SO THE SCHEMES THAT WERE TOUTED AS A WAY FOR STUDENTS TO HAVE GREATER SUCCESS, THAT, IN FACT, WAS NOT THE CASE.

WE KNOW THAT WITH THE PASSAGE OF VOUCHER LAWS IN MOST STATES, THOSE STUDENTS WHO GET THOSE VOUCHERS ARE STUDENTS WHO ARE ALREADY GOING TO PRIVATE SCHOOLS.

SO THESE ARE FAMILIES THAT ALREADY HAVE THE STUDENTS IN PRIVATE SCHOOL, AND NOW THEY'RE GETTING TAX DOLLARS TO ACTUALLY PAY FOR THAT PRIVATE SCHOOL, AND THE SCHEME, REGARDLESS OF WHAT YOU CALL THEM, ARE ALL DESIGNED TO DESTROY PUBLIC EDUCATION IN THIS COUNTRY.

TED: I WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE CURRENT SUPERINTENDENT OF PUBLIC INSTRUCTION, ON A QUOTE HE MADE.

THIS WAS ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL.

LIBERALS ARE TRYING TO INDOCTRINATE OUR SCHOOL CHILDREN TO HATE AMERICA, LIBERAL SCHOOLTEACHERS ARE TRYING TO INDOCTRINATE OUR CHILDREN TO HATE AMERICA.

WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THAT?

>> AS I SAID BEFORE, I TAUGHT FOR A LONG TIME.

I HAD THE HONOR OF TRAVELING ACROSS THE COUNTRY AND SEEING EDUCATORS IN RURAL SCHOOLS AND SUBURBAN SCHOOLS IN EVERY STATE.

I HAVE NEVER BEEN PROUDER TO CALL MYSELF A TEACHER THAN I AM RIGHT NOW BECAUSE AS I SEE TEACHERS AND OTHER EDUCATORS IN OUR SCHOOL DISTRICTS, THEY ARE FIGHTING TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY HAVE THE PROFESSIONAL RESPECT, THAT THEY HAVE THE AUTHORITY AND COLLECTIVE AUTONOMY TO MAKE TEACHING AND LEARNING DECISIONS BASED ON WHAT THEIR KIDS NEED, BASED ON PROCESSES WHERE THEY NOT ONLY PARTNER WITH PARENTS, BUT LAWMAKERS TOO TO ESTABLISH STANDARDS, BY WHICH THEY TEACH.

THEY ARE NOT SPENDING THEIR TIME INDOCTRINATING STUDENTS.

THEY ARE SPENDING THEIR TIME MAKING SURE THAT THEY HAVE THE KNOWLEDGE, SKILLS AND ABILITIES, NOT ONLY TO PREPARE THEM FOR THE NEXT STEP IN THEIR EDUCATION JOURNEY, BUT TO PREPARE THEM FOR LIFE, FOR THE CAREER, FOR COLLEGE.

THAT'S WHAT EDUCATORS ARE DOING.

AND THEY'RE NOT JUST DOING THAT.

THEY'RE STANDING IN THE GAPS WITH KIDS EVERY SINGLE DAY.

TED: HOW DO YOU GET MORE TEACHERS?

WE TALKED FOR YEARS HERE IN ARIZONA.

TEACHER RETENTION, TEACHER RECRUITMENT, IT'S A PROBLEM HERE, I'M ASSUMING IT'S A PROBLEM ELSEWHERE.

WHAT DO YOU DO?

>> IT'S A PROBLEM EVERYWHERE.

IT'S A CHRONIC PROBLEM.

COVID MADE IT WORSE BECAUSE COVID MADE EVERYTHING WORSE, BUT WE AT THE NEA HAVE BEEN FOLLOWING IT THE LAST COUPLE OF DECADES AND SAW THE DECLINE OF THE NUMBER OF COLLEGE STUDENTS GOING INTO EDUCATION.

WE'VE BEEN AT THIS WORK RECRUITING TEACHERS, BUT ALSO RETAINING THEM, AND IT'S NOT GETTING BETTER, IT'S GETTING WORSE BECAUSE, AND WE ASKED OUR TEACHERS, WE DID A SURVEY TO FIND OUT HOW MANY TEACHERS WERE THINKING ABOUT LEAVING THE PROFESSION.

I WILL TELL YOU WE WERE SHOCKED AT THE RESULTS THAT 55% OF OUR EDUCATORS WERE SAYING THEY WERE PLANNING, ACTUALLY PLANNING TO LEAVE THE PROFESSION.

WHEN YOU DUG INTO THE NUMBERS AND LOOKED AT TEACHERS OF COLORS, LATINO TEACHERS WERE AT THE HIGH 50s AND BLACK TEACHERS OVER 60% WERE PLANNING TO LEAVE THE PROFESSION.

WE CAN'T ONLY TALK ABOUT ACTUALLY ATTRACTING.

WE HAVE TO TALK ABOUT THE RETENTION ISSUE, TOO.

SO I WAS SHOCKED.

AS I TRAVEL AROUND THE COUNTRY, SKIED THEM WHY, AND THEY SAID ONE WORD -- RESPECT.

RESPECT MEANS A LOT OF THINGS TO A LOT OF PEOPLE, I HAVE TO DIG IN ON THAT, WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THAT?

THEY SAID WE WANT TO BE RESPECTED AS PROFESSIONALS.

WE ARE PROFESSIONALS.

WE STUDIED, WE HAVE THE EXPERIENCE, WE'RE NOT TREATED AS OTHER PROFESSIONALS ALLOWED TO MAKE THOSE TEACHING AND LEARNING DECISIONS FOR THE STUDENTS.

OF COURSE THEY TALKED ABOUT THE PROFESSIONAL PAY.

WE HAVE A 25% WAGE GAP, WHEN YOU COMPARE US TO OTHER SIMILARLY SITUATED PROFESSIONS, AND THE LAST THING THEY TALKED ABOUT WAS THE ABILITY TO DO THE JOB THEY LOVE.

TO HAVE THE RESOURCES FOR THE STUDENTS, TO MEET THEM WHERE THEY WERE, TO HAVE WORKING CONDITIONS THAT ALLOWED THEM TO CREATE THAT INCLUSIVE AND LOVING JOYFUL HIGHLY ACADEMIC SPACE FOR THEM, AND THAT THEY DIDN'T HAVE THE RESOURCES.

YOU KNOW THAT TEACHERS GENERALLY NATIONWIDE SPENT ALMOST $500 AS THEY CAME BACK TO SCHOOL THIS YEAR, OUT OF THE OWN FAMILY'S POCKET.

THOSE ARE THE THINGS THEY TALKED ABOUT, AND WHAT'S HAPPENING AT THE FEDERAL AND THE STATE LEVEL TO SOME DEGREE IS GOING FURTHER AND FURTHER AWAY FROM THAT, WHICH IS WHY THAT TEACHER SHORTAGE IS INCREASING AND NOT -- AND NOT BEING TURNED AROUND THE WAY IT NEEDS TO BE IN THE COUNTRY.

TED: BECKY PRINGLE, NATIONAL EDUCATION ASSOCIATION PRESIDENT.

GOOD TO TALK WITH AND YOU SPEAK WITH YOU AND GET YOUR OPINION ON THINGS.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> THANK YOU.

.

TED: THE BLACK THEATER TROUPE WAS FOUNDED IN 1970 TO PROVIDE A SPACE FOR BLACK ARTISTS TO SHARE EXPERIENCES.

THE TROUPE IS SET TO INTRODUCE NEW SEASON.

JOINING US WITH THE BLACK THEATER TROUPE'S EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR AND PRODUCING ARTISTIC ASSOCIATE.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU.

TED: IT'S THAT TIME YEAR.

>> IT SURE IS.

TED: ARE YOU SET TO GO?

>> YEAH, IT'S SET TO GO.

IT'S ALWAYS BEEN A VERY EASILY PRODUCED THING BECAUSE IT'S SO VERY IMPORTANT, AND SO VERY POPULAR THAT WE JUST KIND OF ROLL THROUGH THE SETTING UP OF IT, THROUGH THE BEGINNING OF IT.

TED: BEFORE YOU GET ON SHANELLE, GOT TO BE AN AUGUST WILSON PLAY?

>> GOT TO BE.

WE'RE DOING JUTTINY, THE FIRST PLAY WRITTEN IN AUGUST WILSON'S AMERICAN CENTURY CYCLE, THE FIRST ONE WRITTEN IN 1979.

WE'VE DONE ALL TEN, BUT WE'RE STARTING OVER AGAIN FOR NEW GENERATIONS.

TED: AND THE TROUPE HAS GOOD PUBLICITY FOR DOING ALL THOSE THINGS?

>> WE DO.

WE'RE ONE OF 12 COMPANIES IN THE COUNTRY THAT HAVE DONE THE COMPLETE CYCLE.

WE RECEIVED AN AWARD FROM THE PITTSBURGH ASSOCIATION AUGUST WILSON'S HOME ABOUT OUR PRODUCTION.

SO WE'RE VERY GRATEFUL, VERY POPULAR, NATIONALLY.

TED: AND CHANELLE, YOU ARE DIRECTING GRACE AND GLORY.

>> YES.

TED: WHAT IS THAT ABOUT?

>> AN INCREDIBLE STORY ABOUT TWO WOMEN, AN OLDER WOMAN FROM VIRGINIA IN APPALACHIA AND A YOUNGER WOMAN FROM NEW YORK, AND VERY BIG DISPARITY IN AGE SO IT'S AN INTERGENERATIONAL LOVE STORY BETWEEN THE TWO WOMEN AS GRACE IS IN HOSPICE AND CONNECTING IMPORTS WITH GLORY TRYING TO ASSIST HER.

IT'S A DRAMADY AND FUNNY AND LOVING HOW THE TWO WOMEN COME TO BE FRIENDS.

>> WHAT ATTRACTED YOU, YOU GIVE A GOOD SYNOPSIS, WHAT ATTRACTED YOU FROM THIS FROM A DIRECTOR'S VIEWPOINT?

>> FROM A DIRECTOR'S VIEWPOINT, I WAS EXCITED TO WORK WITH THE ACTRESSES THAT WE CAST, THEY ARE BRILLIANT AND MASTER CLASSES IN THEIR OWN RIGHT.

THE TWO-HANDER ALLOWS ME THE TIME TO SIT WITH THE TEXT AND GET INTO THE GUTS OF IT.

WE DID A LOT OF TABLE WORK SESSIONS, YOU SIT DOWN AND DO DRAMA TURJICAL WORK, YOU LOOK UP VIRGINIA AND APPALACHIA AND WHAT IS AN ORCHARD, AND WHAT IS IT LIKE OWNING AN ORCHARD TREE AND WE GET TO UNDERSTAND AND PLAY WHO THE WOMEN ARE.

TED: THE IDEA OF DIRECTING A STAGE PLAY, THERE'S A LOT GOING ON.

>> MAN, IT'S A GREAT UNDERTAKING.

YOU HAVE TO BE VERY ATTUNED, FIRST OF ALL, TO YOUR PERFORMERS, BECAUSE IF YOU DON'T HAVE GOOD PERFORMERS, SATISFIED PERFORMERS, CAN BE VERY, VERY DIFFICULT.

AND THEN TO DIRECT THE NUTS AND BOLTS OF THE PRODUCTION, IT'S A LOT OF WORK.

TED: HOW DO YOU ATTRACT GOOD PERFORMERS?

>> BY DOING GOOD WORK.

THAT'S HOW WE ATTRACT OUR PERFORMERS.

ONCE YOU DO GOOD WORK AND THE WORD GETS OUT THAT YOU'RE DOING WELL, EVERYBODY WANTS TO WORK FOR YOU.

>> AND THEY COME BACK.

BOTH ACTRESSES HAVE BEEN WITH US BEFORE.

>> RIGHT, THEY'VE BEEN WITH US BEFORE.

ANOTHER WAY WE DO IT, PARTICULARLY NOW, WE GET YOUNG DIRECTORS AND PEOPLE THAT HAVE HAD A LINK -- SHE'S HAD HER OWN COMPANIES SO NOW WE GET TO BENEFIT FROM THAT AND ALL THOSE PEOPLE COME TO OUR PLACE.

TED: YEAH, FROM A DIRECTOR'S VIEWPOINT, AGAIN, WHEN THE CURTAIN GOES UP, THE LIGHTS GO ON, THE AUDIENCE IS THERE AND WATCHING, WHAT ARE YOU DOING?

>> I CAN'T BREATHE.

I LITERALLY SIT THERE AND LIKE, YOU HOPE THAT EVERY JOKE LANDS, WE HOPE ALL THE EMOTIONAL MOMENTS LAND, AND WHETHER THE AUDIENCE LEAVES WITH THE INFORMATION.

WHATEVER THEY'RE FEELING.

I LIKE TO LISTEN IN THE LOBBY DURING INTERMISSION.

>> THAT'S WHEN YOU FIND ME.

I CAN'T WATCH.

>> AND TO HEAR HOW PEOPLE ARE CONNECTING WITH THE PIECE OR NOT CONNECTING WITH THE PIECE.

IT STARTS CONVERSATIONS, AND I THINK ANY GOOD PLAY KEEPS CONVERSATION GOING OFF LEAVE THE THEATER BECAUSE THEATER INSPIRES EMPATHY.

WE WANT PEOPLE TO TALK ABOUT IT WHEN THEY LEAVE.

>> THAT'S THE PURPOSE OF THE BLACK THEATER TROUPE TO PROVOKE THOUGHT, AND WE WANT EVERYBODY TO LEAVE WITH AN UNDERSTANDING OF -- OUR PLAYS ARE UNIVERSAL, THEY'RE TOLD WITH BLACK ACTORS AND CERTAIN NUANCE, BUT IT'S ALWAYS SAME STORY THAT CAN BE APPLIED TO ANY CULTURE.

TED: AND I MENTIONED 197 ON, HELEN KAY MASON, NOW PERFORMING IN THE HELEN KAY MASON THEATER, HUH?

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

THANKS TO YOUR TAX DOLLARS.

TED: YOU'RE WELCOME!

GLAD YOU ARE ENJOYING IT.

ISN'T THAT SOMETHING, THAT TURNAROUND?

>> IT'S WONDERFUL.

WE WERE FORTUNATE ENOUGH TO RECEIVE THE BUILDING IN THE LAST BOND ELECTION, WHICH I THINK WAS OUR VERY, VERY LAST ONE IN THE CITY, 2006.

>> IT WAS AWHILE AGO.

>> AND WE WERE ABLE TO GET THE BUILDING THAT WAY.

TED: DAVID, CAN'T BE A SHOW WITHOUT TALKING ABOUT AND YOU BLACKTIVITY.

THAT IS A FAVORITE.

>> IT'S SO FAVORITE, WE'RE TRYING TO THINK OF WAYS TO INCORPORATE ANOTHER SOMETHING -- [LAUGHTER] >> TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE HOLIDAY SEASON.

TED: CHANEL, LAST QUESTION FOR YOU, IS THERE STILL THAT EXCITEMENT.

A LOT OF EXPERIENCE, YOU KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING AND YOU'RE A PROFESSIONAL, BUT YOU GET UP FOR IT, DON'T YOU?

>> YES, I DON'T WANT TO BE DOING ANYTHING ELSE.

I'VE DONE A LOT AND I'VE BEEN VERY FORTUNATE IN MY YOUNG CAREER TO HAVE TOUCHED A LOT OF DIFFERENT SPACES, BUT STORYTELLING IS WHAT I'M MEANT TO DO, TO BE ALLOWED TO BE IN THE SPACES WHERE I GET TO SHOW MARGINALIZED VOICES BEING HEARD AND PEOPLE EXPRESS EMPATHY BY WATCHING OUR STORIES BE TOLD AND THE CONNECTIVITY, MY FAMILY IS GOING THROUGH THAT.

THAT IS ABOUT WHAT I DO THIS FOR.

IT IS A CALLING.

I'M REALIZING BECAUSE I AM A PERFORMER TOO, BUT I THINK MY TRUE CALLING IS IN STORYTELLING.

TED: CHANEL AND DAVID, GOOD TO SEE YOU AGAIN, AND BEST OF LUCK, BREAK A COUPLE OF LEGS.

>> YES.

TED: THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> THANK YOU.

DID LUCY LOOK AND MOVE LIKE US OR MORE LIKE OUR CLOSEST RELATIVE, THE CHIMPANZEE.

WITH HELP FROM THE CALIFORNIA ACADEMY OF SCIENCES, LET ME SHOW YOU WHY THOSE QUESTIONS MATTER?

LOUISE AND CHIMP BOTH HAVE AN ELONGATED SKULL WITH A SMALL BRAIN CAVE.

FACES AND JAWS THAT JET OUT FROM THE BRAIN CASE UNDER THE SKULL.

WORKING OUR WAY DOWN THE BODY, BOTH HAVE SHOULDER BLADES AND JOINTS SUITED FOR CLIMBING TREES.

THEY BOTH HAVE LONG ARMS AND HANDS WITH CURVED FINGERS.

NOW LET'S PUT ONE OF US IN THE PICTURE.

LUCY AND HUMANS SHARE A SPINE CONNECTION BENEATH THE SKULL TO KEEP THE HEAD STEADY.

LIKE US, LUCY HAS A ROBUST BROAD BASE AND SHAPED PELVIS TO SUPPORT THE UPPER BODY AND HOLD IT UP RIGHT.

LIKE US SHE HAS ANGLED SIDE BONES TO PLACE THE WEIGHT DIRECTLY OVER STRONG KNEE JOINTS.

AND LIKE US, COMPACT ARCHED FEET THAT SUPPORT THE FULL BODY WEIGHT WITH EVERY STEP.

TED: SPEAKING OF FOSSILS, ASU SCIENTISTS HAVE UNCOVERED A SET OF FOSSILS IN ETHIOPIA THAT SPEAK TO HUMAN EVOLUTION AND PERHAPS A NEW SPECIES OF ANCIENT HUMAN ANCESTOR.

WE WELCOME IN ASU GEOLOGIST.

GOOD TO HAVE YOU HERE.

>> THANK YOU.

TED: ASU, ETHIOPIA, YOU'RE AT A SITE, WHAT DID YOU FIND?

>> SO ULTIMATELY WE ONLY FOUND 13 TEETH, BUT IN THE 13 TEETH, WE HAVE THREE DIFFERENT LEVELS PRESERVED AROUND 2.8, 2.7 AND 2.6 MILLION YEARS AGO, IT SHOWS AT 2.6 AND 2.8 WE HAVE MEMBERS OF GENUS HOMO AND AT 2.7 YOU HAVE SOMETHING MORE ALIGNED WITH WHAT YOU SEE AT AROUND 3 MILLION YEARS OR SO IN THIS REGION.

TED: INTERESTING.

HOW DO YOU KNOW?

YOU GOT THESE DATES PRETTY CLOSE, 2.7, HOW DO YOU KNOW?

>> A REALLY COOL THING ABOUT WORKING IN EAST AFRICA, THEY HAVE LOTS OF VOLCANOES AND VOLCANOES THERE FOR MILLIONS OF YEARS, WHEN THEY ERUPT, THE ASHES THEY DEPOSIT INCLUDES SOMETHING WE USE TO DATE, THE POTASSIUM ARGON DATING, WE CAN DATE THE ASH HORIZONS AND HAVE MULTIPLE IN OUR SEQUENCE SO THAT WE CAN SAY THIS FOSSIL IS BETWEEN THIS DATE AND THIS DATE AND THIS FOSSIL IS BETWEEN HERE AND HERE, SO CAN YOU USE THEM TO SET UP A FRAMEWORK, IF YOU WILL, DATES YOU CAN INSERT FOSSILS IN BETWEEN.

TED: YOU WORK AROUND AND CAN FIGURE THAT OUT?

>> YEAH, WE KNEW MOST OF THE DATES OF THE FOSSILS BEFORE WE FOUND THEM.

WE KNEW THE AGE OF THE SEQUENCE, THAT'S WHY WE WERE SURVEYING THERE, IT'S AN IMPORTANT TIME PERIOD.

TED: WE JUST SAW LUCY.

WHERE DOES LUCY FIT INTO ALL THIS?

>> LUCY IS FOUND 50 MILES AWAY, 30 MILES AWAY FROM WHERE WE FOUND THE NEW SPECIMENS AND LUCY EXISTS IN THE REGION OF ETHIOPIA FROM 3.8 TO 3.0 MILLION YEARS AWAY, AND SO THERE'S THIS GAP THAT WE HAD FROM ABOUT 3 MILLION TO 2.5 MILLION AND STARTED FILLING THAT IN WITH MATERIAL WE CALL EARLY HOMO, OUR GENUS HOMO AND THE ADDITIONAL MATERIAL SHOWS THAT POTENTIALLY THE LINEAGE COULD BE RELATED TO LUCY SOMEHOW, WE DON'T KNOW, IT'S ONLY NINE FEET WE HAVE OF THIS.

THERE'S ANOTHER CRITTER ON THE LANDSCAPE IT.

GOES FROM THE BIG GAP FOR HALF A MILLION YEARS TO TWO SPECIES IN THE SAME LANDSCAPE.

TED: IS THAT WHY YOU WERE SURPRISED?

>> A LITTLE BIT.

A TIME PERIOD THAT'S NOT WELL PRESERVED AND THEY ARE VERY RARE ON THE LANDSCAPE, IT TAKES A LOT OF TIME UNTIL YOU COME ACROSS THEM, YOU FIND HUNDREDS OF OTHER ANIMALS, NEW FOSSILIZED ANIMALS.

THEY ARE EXTREMELY RARE, IT TOOK TEN YEARS TO FIND THE FIRST ONE, AND FINDING IT BE SOMETHING DIFFERENT IS A COOL SURPRISE.

TED: SO THIS EXISTED MAYBE AT THE SAME TIME AS THE OLDEST HUMAN ANCESTOR?

>> EXACTLY.

THERE ARE BITS OF IT IN THE AREA AGAIN, THERE IS ONE FROM 2.5 MILLION, BUT IT MAY NOT -- DOESN'T SEEM TO BE EXACTLY ON OUR LINEAGE.

THE TAKEAWAY IS THE SIMPLIFIED MODEL OF EVOLUTION WHERE YOU ASSUME THAT ONE SPECIES SPLITS INTO MAYBE ONE OR TWO SPECIES, OTHER SPECIES, IT'S NOT SO MUCH A FAMILY TREE AS A FAMILY BUSH, IF YOU WILL.

ALL OF A SUDDEN, NOW YOU HAVE, IF YOU LOOK AT EAST AFRICA, HAVE YOU FOUR DIFFERENT EARLY HUMAN SPECIES RUNNING AROUND LANDSCAPE.

TED: IT DOESN'T SOUND LINEAR TO ME, DOES IT MAKE IT MORE DIFFICULT TO FIGURE THINGS OUT?

>> DOES MAKE IT MORE DIFFICULT, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU HAVE A SMALL SAMPLE SIZE.

NINE TEETH WAS NOT ENOUGH TO CHARACTERIZE IT INTO A NEW SPECIES.

IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE LUCY SPECIE, DOESN'T LOOK LIKE OTHER THINGS AT THE TIME.

WE DIDN'T NAME IT BUT DIDN'T GROUP IT INTO SOMETHING THAT EXISTS ALREADY IT.

CREATES A CHALLENGE BECAUSE YOU HAVE LITTLE TINY PIECES OF A PUZZLE, BUT IT MAKES IT THAT MUCH MORE EXCITING BECAUSE YOU KNOW THERE IS STILL MORE TO FIND.

TED: COULD THEY HAVE COEXISTED?

IS THAT THE KIND OF THING -- COULD IT POSSIBLY HAVE HAPPENED, YOU STAY OVER HERE, I'LL STAY OVER HERE, THAT KIND OF STUFF?

>> IT'S TOUGH TO SAY BECAUSE WE THE EARLY HOMO, SO WEAN THEY OVERLAP BROADLY IN TIME AND SPACE.

IT'S TOUGH TO SAY WHETHER THEY WAVE TO EACH OTHER AS THEY WALK AROUND DURING THE DAY OR NOT.

BUT IT'S POSSIBLE.

YOU CAN'T SAY ONE WAY OR THE OTHER.

TED: BUT IN ANYWAY, LOOKING AT THIS AND THE DISCOVERY, WHAT DOES IT IS A ABOUT HUMAN EVOLUTION?

>> IT TELLS US THERE'S A LOT MORE TO FIND.

THIS IS THE CASE WITH DISCOVERY DRIVEN SCIENCE IN GENERAL, WHETHER IT'S DEALING WITH DINOSAURS OR EARLY HUMANS, RIGHT?

IT'S GETTING PEOPLE INTO THE FIELD, BOOTS ON THE GROUND BEING THE MORE TIME YOU'RE LOOKING FOR THINGS, THE MORE THINGS YOU'RE GOING FIND.

IT MIGHT ONLY BE A HANDFUL OF TEETH, EVERY DISCOVERY BECOMES IMPORTANT YOU.

>> SAID MORE NEEDS TO BE FOUND.

CAN MORE BE FOUND AT THIS PARTICULAR SITE.

CAN MORE BE FOUND AT THIS GENERAL AREA?

>> FOR SURE.

TED: ARE THE SITES BEING TAKEN UP, IS MY QUESTION?

>> WE CARVED UP THE LANDSCAPE PRETTY GOOD AMONG DIFFERENT RESEARCH GROUPS.

EVERY YEAR YOU HAVE RAIN AND WIND ERODING THE LANDSCAPES AND YOU GO BACK OUT AND YOU FIND NEW THINGS EVERY YEAR.

SO THE SEDIMENTS ARE RENEWING WITH FOSSILS.

WE FOUND ONE IMPORTANT FOSSIL IN TEN YEARS AND TOOK AWHILE TO FIND ANOTHER ONE.

A MATTER OF TIME.

>> I IMAGINE A LOT OF QUESTIONS YOU STILL WANT ANSWERED AS WELL.

>> EXACTLY.

WE DEFINITELY WANT MORE.

WE WANT TO KNOW WHAT THINGS ARE LIKE.

WE KNOW WHAT THE TEETH LOOK LIKE.

WE WANT TO KNOW WHAT THE SKULL LOOKED LIKE, WHAT DID IT EAT?

A LITTLE TEASER.

TED: CHRIS CAMPISANO, ASU GEOLOGIST.

GOOD STUFF, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU.

TED: THAT IS IT FOR NOW.

I'M TED SIMONS.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

YOU HAVE A GREAT EVENING.