is brought to you by PeakNutritionLabs.com A team of international researchers working on the development nutritional suppliments for improving health and longevity.

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(orchestral music) Travels and Traditions with Burt Wolf is a classic travel journal, a record of Burt's search for information about our world and how we fit into it.

Burt travels to the source of each story, trying to find the connections between our history and what is happening today.

What he discovers can improve our lives and our understanding of the world around us.

(uplifting orchestral music) - A few years ago, I teamed up with Dan Hesse to put together a program about Kansas City.

Dan had been the CEO of Sprint and was thinking about what he would do next.

I joked that he was like a talented actor between pictures.

He lived most of his life in Kansas City.

So he was my ideal guide.

Throughout the days we spent together, Dan kept talking about success and what it meant to different people.

I encouraged him to make a television show about it, and he did.

He did it with his friend, songwriter and musician, Neil Young.

Finding success with Dan Hesse looks at what success means to different people, how they achieve it and how they continue to keep at it.

For some people, success is wealth.

For some it's helping others.

Success can be winning a Nobel prize or championship.

It can mean recognition, or just eating more hotdogs than anyone else.

Finding success is a series of conversations between Dan and well-known people who have very different ideas about success.

We find out what success means to each of them, how they found it, what they've done with it, and especially what we can learn from each of these unusual stories.

What Dan discovers can improve our lives, make us feel good and help us understand what living a successful life can mean.

- [Narrator] This program's about Neil Young.

- Don't change Dan, just leave him alone.

(uplifting music) - He's been a member of top selling musical groups, like the Battle of Springfield, Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young, (uplifting music) Crazy Horse, (uplifting music) and the Promise of the Real.

(uplifting music) He's also had an amazing career as a solo artist.

50 albums, and 50 years later, he's still going strong.

Neil's story can help us understand the importance of following your dream, how chemistry is essential to teams and how to find your own meaning of success.

Well, Neil, thanks so much for spending a few minutes with me to talk about success in your successful career.

Now it started a long time ago.

You left school, I guess, high school after 10th grade to kind of pursue your life's path.

What made you start so young?

- Well, I couldn't do anything else.

It's really what I wanted to do.

I was playing in a band in high school all and that's all I thought about.

I'd be just be there in math class and drawing setups of stage setups and speaker alignments things, and how, where to put the amps so that the audience would hear the sound the best.

And then we didn't have the amps and the PA at that time, but I had all, I was the configuration that I was focused on and I would be making all these diagrams and stuff.

It's just an illustration of how school was that just, I kind of like lost interest in it because it did, just didn't fascinate me.

- Now, did you have an aha moment when you were young?

At what age you said, "I'm, I can be good at this.

I've."

- No, I never really did.

I had, the only moment I had was when I realized that I was sitting in the vice principal's office at my high school.

And I had, he was telling me how I was smart and I had a good, really good mind.

And it was obvious when I was focused that I did really well.

And why did I not apply myself?

And I said, "Well, I'm applying myself 100% to something else."

And he said, "Well, what's that?"

And I said, "Well, it's music.

I mean, I wanna be a musician.

And that's what I feel like doing."

And he said, "Well, you, that'll only, that'll pass.

And then you'll won't have a job and you won't have an education and you won't have anything."

And I said, "No, it won't pass."

And he said, "You'll be working in a bar, you'll be working in a hotel, playing in a lounge somewhere.

And that's where you're gonna be for the rest of your life."

And I said, "Well, that wouldn't be bad, that wouldn't be too bad."

I mean, as long as I could do what I wanna do, I mean, I can make a living doing this.

- Now you've called your parents' dream makers.

What role did your parents have?

And you choosing what you did and making the life choices that you have.

- Well my dad is a very creative guy and he was a writer.

And when I was about five years old, I'd go up there to the top of the stairs and see him in the attic.

And he'd stopped and talked to me for a minute.

And then he just go back to his typewriter and keep on going.

And I'd stand there and I'd stand there for a long time.

And every once in a while, he turned around and asked me how I was doing.

He called me Windy, that was my nickname.

He said, "What are you doing, Windy?"

- And where'd Windy come from?

- Then I don't know it just came out of him.

So probably because I was changing or something.

When my mum and dad split up, my mom took me in and she just let me do whatever I wanted to do.

She tried to get me an amp, she tried to get, when I, tried to get me equipment so that I could get started and helped me, let us record, let us rehearse in the living room.

I've just had a lot of support.

People didn't tell me, "You can't do that."

- And I think and also, your dad said, "Write something down everyday."

- Yeah, write something down even if you don't wanna write, go up and start writing and do something.

You just write, some days you write 10,000 words when you didn't even know you had a word in you.

So there's a key there.

It's, your conscious mind has nothing to do with it.

If you think you got nothing to do, that makes no difference at all.

When you start doing it, you'll find out what it is you're doing, because it's not coming directly from you.

And that's the key thing, is it, with my songs and everything else.

Yeah, there may be something I'm thinking of.

And I'd like to write about this or that.

And I pile that into my consciousness and hope that it will slip into the back of my mind and influence things.

But when I'm actually writing or creating in some way, it's just, whatever comes to my head.

There's not really a lot of thinking.

- Well, you wrote "Cinnamon Girl," "Cowgirl in the Sand," "Down by the River."

I understand in one sitting.

I mean, that's a real gift.

When did you first realize that you had a special gift?

- As far as having a special gift goes, I think I just know that I respect the source of the music to the source of creation.

And so when I have an idea, I don't care about anything else other than the idea.

Because I know that these ideas that I get from music are, they can turn into songs.

And then songs or something, that's what I do.

And the more I have the better I am.

So anybody who knows me knows that if I get distracted, which I quite uncommonly do then I won't come back until I'm finished with what's distracting me.

So I've considered that to be more important than anything else I'm doing.

I, there are certain things, family things and things like that, that are important.

That obviously they take all my focus when they're happening.

But as, if I'm doing something and I get distracted, I'll just stop and I'll follow whatever it is.

If I have an idea or if I hear something I'll go over and I'll pick up an instrument or a piece of paper and pen, I'll just do something to remind me of what that idea was.

- Well, I've heard that some of your early influences are Bob Dylan and other Canadian artists like Randy Bachman, even The Beatles, you liked the song, "It Won't Be Long," which was one of my favorites.

It was the first tune.

- Yeah, a great song.

- On the second album.

- It was a cool song.

Rocking song.

- Yeah.

- My big influences were Hank Marvin of the Shadows, which is, he was a lead guitar player in an instrumental band called the Shadows in England that backed up Cliff Richard, who was a singer.

And so Hank was a great guitar player.

He had a real great style and a real, a way of playing that was a unique.

And Randy Bachman who's my friend from Winnipeg, he was the lead guitar in the biggest band in town.

I mean, we were just, we were like, chicken feed compared to these guys.

And they were really great.

And Randy had to style down.

He played everything Hank Marvin played and had the same technical setup.

He had the tape repeat, coming from a ReVox tape recorder and all, going through his amp, his guitar and everything coming twice from the repeat of.

And he had tape around the playback heads around, so that the tape would have a certain delay to it.

It was all funky analog stuffs that we did to make the sound happen.

- Do you still do that?

- I have an Echoplex, which is a device that was made to mimic that, which is a very early device from the '50s.

- You can't type cast, Neil Young or his music.

What makes Neil unique is his appeal as both an electric and an acoustic artist.

His music includes rock, (high energy rock music) folk, (tranquil music) country, (uplifting music) new wave, (upbeat music) rockabilly, (uplifting music) blues, (upbeat music) electronic, (upbeat music) and psychedelic.

(upbeat music) You have a very distinctive and creative guitar style, and you've been recognized by Rolling Stone and lots of other places for your guitar playing.

Did you really learn to be a guitarist from lessons, from inspiration, from influences, pure hard work?

Where did it come from?

- I have no idea, I don't know.

I was playing with the Squires in a club in Fort William, Ontario in 1963, approximately.

And I was doing a song called "Farmer John" and I was playing the song and we got to the end and the instrumental played.

And then we just played for awhile.

And then suddenly just all hell broke loose.

I have no idea what happened, but we just went nuts.

And so at the end the people were just going, "What was that?"

People were cheering and everything.

And I walked off stage with the guys and, these people from other bands came up to me and said, "What happened?"

And I said, "What do you mean, why?

I don't know."

I don't know what happened, but I realized that I wasn't thinking, number one, no thinking.

And as soon as you elevate yourself to the point where you're not thinking, you're not aware of where you are and nothing matters, that's when you're, and at least in the neighborhood where you might be able to get somewhere.

- I think you said, when you think you stink?

- Pretty much.

- Now, see that's tough for somebody like me.

So thinking comes in helpful.

It's helpful, like 100% of the time when you're a CEO, but in your, in music, I think both writing and playing you just.

- Yeah, but you're thinking, when you're a leader and you're thinking even as a CEO, you've prepared yourself.

You know where everything is and you're reacting to what's happening in the room to what people were saying, and your, back of your mind is putting things together.

It's okay, I can deal with that.

I can't deal with that, I should present this.

I don't, I'm gonna do this, and I'm not gonna address that guy.

I'm not gonna, what's going on there has, it's not gonna help me.

All that, so that's your creative process going on back there, it's not thinking it's automatic.

You did all your thinking before you got there.

That's how I feel.

Your art is being able to run the meeting and get the most out of the meeting.

Then you're not thinking about how to do it.

That's 'cause you are a CEO, because you do do that, because that's who you are.

It's not who you think you are.

- Now you kind of like a CEO.

I mean, you have so many projects, and you're doing so many things.

Are you able to really shut it all out and live in the moment and just focus on the here and now?

- When I play music or when I'm writing music, I'm not thinking about anything else.

I travel around in my car or I'm doing something.

And the only thing about that, that, there's some things in the back of my mind, I'm trying to work out little detailed things.

That just can't, I can't let go of, but they're always there.

But it's mostly like, am I happy?

Is it going well?

Or am I not happy?

Is it not going well?

Those are the, that's, those are, that's what's on my mind.

- So, kind of on the subject of teamwork, chemistry is an important part of it.

Whether it's a sports team, a company, a band, you've been involved in bands where it's kind of, you're one of, kind of a group of equals, Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young, Buffalo Springfield.

You've been in bands with your teams, but you're a clear leader, CEO, Promise of the Real, Crazy Horse.

Do you think that the chemistry, I mean, how important is it?

And do you think that chemistry is like innate, it's either there or it's not?

Or the leader creates it or a certain member of the band creates it.

I remember you saying something about Bruce Palmer was really crucial to the chemistry of Buffalo Springfield, like a certain person's really a good teammate.

- Well, yeah, there's no, it really is chemistry.

So you, it's what happens when everything's together.

It's not what happens when half of it's together, when one person is there.

It's what happens, the chemistry of a band is when everybody is together and when they're all there.

And, that's been, I've been fortunate to have that in all the bands that I play with.

I think Promise of the Real has really great chemistry because they have such a great, their knowledge of music is exceptional.

I mean, with the Nelson sons and the other guys are really tight with the Nelsons.

And everybody's got that history.

The boys have grown up with Willie.

They know, they live it, they understand it.

They're, their band has no fear.

On the other hand, I've been thinking a lot about Crazy Horse lately and they keep coming back.

There's a certain chemistry there that'll, it's interesting.

When I play with Crazy Horse and when I, even when I know I'm gonna play with Crazy Horse, I write different songs.

It has an impact on how open I am to maybe cosmic or sort of, I don't know, it's just some other kind of time travel, kind of music or something.

They opened me up to that.

It's because of them.

There's three guys, they're all basically Latinos.

There's an Italian, a Puerto Rican and a Spaniard and me.

And what they do when they're together is unbelievable what happens.

And just thinking about playing with them makes me look at music differently.

(uplifting music) - [Dan] He still plays with Crazy Horse, but the tenure of bands like Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young, and the Buffalo Springfield were short-lived, so-called shooting stars.

- There's a time when the flame burns and there's a time when it goes out.

I've learned that if the flame goes out, 'cause you were in the wrong place, you just go somewhere else.

And maybe it won't be there, but at least you're moving.

- Given his unusual road to recognition and success.

A high school dropout who was stricken with polio as a child and was subject to epileptic seizures as a young man.

I was particularly interested in how Neil would define success.

What is success to you?

What is living a successful life?

- Everyday.

- Just.

- I'm succeeding right now.

But I'm happy to be here.

I feel successful to be here.

I feel that I'm doing everything that I can do.

- So what advice would you give young people about living a successful life?

- Stay alive.

- Stay alive, that's a good one.

A condition precedent.

Yeah you're gonna need that.

- That's it, stay alive.

A candid part of the interview, that was a candid.

- We're near Los Angeles, John Wooden coached the UCLA Bruins to 10 national championships.

And he had a saying, he said, "Success championships aren't all they're cracked up to be.

But the journey to get there is much more than it's cracked up to be."

Do you agree with that?

- Well, I think anybody who's had success really believes that.

I mean, maybe not anybody, but I'm thinking of a particular big orange headed guy when I say that.

He may not be cognizant to that, but anyway, I mean, anything you do, getting to do it, the whole process is where it's at.

There's nothing more shallow than success and it has no meaning, unless you can do things for other people with it.

- [Dan] Perhaps the greatest teammate he ever had was Neil's longtime manager, Elliot Roberts, who tragically passed away, after this interview at Elliot's home.

- [Neil] His very tenacious, he keeps coming back.

He's still, I fired him in like almost 50 years ago now, he's still here.

He's still working with me.

He's my partner in crime.

- Well, he protects you well.

- He does, we worked together really well, yeah.

- [Dan] He's a good man.

So.

- I'm very thankful for having him in my life actually.

I wouldn't be where I am now, if it wasn't for him.

There's no doubt about that in my mind.

- Another person heading Neil's success was producer David Briggs, who died in 1995 from lung cancer.

There is a quote, I think it was David Briggs' maybe that I've read you've used, "Life is a (beep) sandwich, eat it or starve."

- That is very true.

- What does that really mean?

- Well, it's, it was written on one of those little sticker taped things.

He pounded it out and cut it off and put it on my ghetto blaster.

So that when I was listening to my mixes, I could always be reading, life is a (beep) sandwich, eat it or starve.

If I, if everybody's singing flat like I always do.

Just remember that, life is a (beep) sandwich, eat it or starve, keep going.

But what he really said, that it sticks with me even more than that, is be great, or be gone.

That's the choice he used to give me.

Then he would, when I was going in the studio to perform, he would remind me of the artists that I loved the best.

He'd just dropped their names.

He'd say, "Yeah, I remember that song by Roy Orbison, "Evergreen," that was a good one.

Wasn't it?

That was a nice record."

And then I'd be, he'd say that in the hallway passing, and I'd be just thinking about Roy Orbison and how great he is, and how great he was.

And he'd remind me of the things that I loved the most, just as I was about to deliver.

And it has nothing to do with technology, that's, he was a great producer because he understood the value of waking up the inner spirit at the right time.

Elliot's got something wrong with his wristwatch.

- He's trying to get it.

- Once he's got it, he keeps going like this.

- Yeah.

- [Dan] In spite of Elliot's efforts to protect Neil's precious time, we were able to cover more subjects like Neil's efforts to support the environment, farmers, indigenous peoples, special needs children and music quality where he's leveraging his success to make a real difference.

- Music will never go away, live music will always live, but the internet and the tech giants have killed music.

They've killed it, but music won't die anyway, it's still there.

But compared to what it could be, it's dead.

- [Dan] We've learned a lot from Neil, how he became successful and what his own definition of success is.

He decided early in life inspired by influential musicians, what he wanted to do.

And with the help of his parents and advisors, he pursued his music career with passion.

This retired CEO found Neil's observations relevant to business.

As he sees parallels between an artist's creativity and a business leader's creative process, how experience and preparation allow one to focus and use one's instincts as an alternative to overthinking with the conscious mind.

Also team chemistry is so important.

And when that chemistry driven flame goes out, it's time for a change.

Be great, or be gone, describes Neil's high-performance standards.

And success can be shallow unless one finds a way to use that success to benefit others.

Neil encouraged me to continue this journey into what success means.

- Well, I think you're doing great, Dan.

- Well.

- I think your interview's going great.

- But.

- You're doing a hell of a job.

I think it's great that you're doing this.

You're into something now that you've never done before.

- Yeah, now.

- That's cool to be at that stage in your life.

And to be, have done everything you've done and to be doing this.

And I think you're gonna do a great job, that's what I think.

What matters is.

- I appreciate that.

- The questions you ask and the way you listen and who you get on the show.

So I hope probably a lot of people that you could have gotten after me being here, they'll never do this show because of that.

But there'll be some others that you will get.

- [Dan] And I look forward to more conversations with fascinating achievers about their surprising journeys and their unique definitions of success.

- Interesting to hear Neil talk about what success means to him.

And I liked Dan's relaxed interview style.

I'm definitely going to encourage him to make more programs like this.

Well, that's Travels and Traditions, I'm Burt Wolf, and I hope you will join us next time right here on your public broadcasting station.

(tranquil music) - [Narrator] Travels and Traditions with Burt Wolf is brought to you by PeakNutritionLabs.com A team of international researchers working on the development nutritional suppliments for improving health and longevity.

PeakNutritionLabs.com And by Swiss International Airlines.

Flying to over 70 worldwide locations.

Truly Swiss made.

Swiss International Airlines.

And by the BMW European Delivery Program, a way to experience the roads that BMW was made to drive.

BMW European Delivery Program.