COMMUNITY.

TRUST >> THE SUBURBS ARE IMMUNE TO THE COUNTRY'S ISSUES AROUND RACIAL INEQUALITY.

ONCE A BEACON OF THE AMERICAN DREAM, FAMILIES HAVE NOW REALIZED THAT THE SUBURBS HAVE FAILED TO DELIVER EQUALLY ON THIS PROMISE, ACCORDING TO A NEW BOOK IN DISILLUSIONED AUTHORED BENJAMIN HAROLD EXPLORES HOW 5 FAMILIES HAVE EXPERIENCED THIS RECKONING FIRSTHAND.

AND JOINING US IS THE BOOK'S AUTHER BENJAMIN HAROLD, WELCOME CHICAGO TONIGHT LIKELY SAYS SINCE JOINING US.

THANKS SO MUCH HAVING YOU, I KNOW EACH OTHER.

WE GO BACK A LITTLE BIT AT MOST AS EDUCATION REPORTERS, BUT I WANT TO START WITH THE PREMISE OF THIS IT CAME TO YOU FROM A VISIT TO YOUR HOMETOWN IN PENNSYLVANIA.

TELL US ABOUT THAT.

>> I GREW UP IN A TOWN CALLED PENN HILLS.

THAT'S ABOUT 10 MILES EAST OF DOWNTOWN PITTSBURGH.

AND MY FAMILY MOVED IN THERE IN THE MID 1970'S AND WHERE WHITE GREW UP THERE AND HAD PRETTY PROTOTYPICAL POST-WAR SUBURBAN EXPERIENCE WAS A PLACE THAT WORKED REALLY, REALLY WELL FOR US, ESPECIALLY IN THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS, WHICH KIND OF PUT ME AND MY BROTHERS ON THE PAT THEM IN A CLASS SECURITY WITHOUT US HAVING TO REALLY DO TOO MUCH.

AND SO WHEN I GRADUATE HIGH SCHOOL IN 1994, I LEFT, COULDN'T WAIT TO GET OUT OF THE SUBURBS.

I WANT TO GO SEE THE REAL WORLD AND REALLY MUCH MY PROFESSIONAL CAREERS.

A JOURNALIST WAS FOCUSED ON CITIES AND RURAL AREAS THINKING THAT'S WHERE THE KIND OF HEART OF AMERICA'S CHALLENGES WERE.

AND THEN ALL HEADLINES STARTED COMING OUT OF PENN HILLS, MY HOMETOWN, ALL OF A SUDDEN THIS SMALL SCHOOL DISTRICT THAT HAD WORKED SO WELL FOR MY WHITE FAMILY.

AS 172 MILLION DOLLARS IN DEBT.

THEY WERE LAYING OFF TEACHERS.

THEY WERE SLASHING PROGRAMS AND SERVICES.

PROPERTY TAXES ARE GOING UP.

HOME VALUES ARE STAGNATING.

YOU COULD KIND OF SEE THAT SUBURBAN DREAM ALMOST ERODING IN REAL TIME AND REALIZE VERY QUICKLY.

IT WAS OVERLAID WITH THE DRAMATIC DEMOGRAPHIC SHIFT.

SO THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS HAVE BEEN 72% WHITE.

WHEN I GRADUATED BY THE TIME ALL OF THESE DEBT STARTED COMING, DO THEY WERE 63% BLACK?

IT WAS THE FAMILIES WHO ARE USING THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS NOW WHO ARE ON THE HOOK FOR ALL OF THAT BURDEN.

YOU WRITE THAT THE THE ILLUSION THAT SUBURBIA REMAIN SOMEHOW SEPARATE FROM AMERICA'S PROBLEMS IS NO LONGER VIABLE AND WHITE.

>> IT'S I THINK IMPORTANT FOR US TO REMEMBER HOW MUCH OF OUR HOPES AND DREAMS AND VISIONS OF THE FUTURE AS A COUNTRY.

WE'VE INVESTED IN SUBURBIA.

>> LIKE THE MASK SUBURBANIZATION OF AMERICA AFTER WORLD WAR, 2 WAS JUST A RADICAL RESHAPING OF THE COUNTRY FROM LAND USE PATTERNS TO ECONOMIC EDUCATION AND SO FORTH.

AND SO ALL OF THAT WAS REALLY PREDICATED ON THIS IDEA THAT THIS IS THE PLACE WHERE WE CAN GIVE OUR KIDS A BETTER LIFE.

THAT'S VERY POWERFUL DRAW.

BUT FOR SO MANY FAMILIES HAVE COME THEIR PARTICULAR THE 3RD 4003TH 5TH GENERATION OF A RESIDENTS WHO ARE OFTEN FAMILIES OF COLOR OR LOWER INCOME OR IMMIGRANT FAMILIES COMING IN REALLY EXPECTING AND HOPING AND WANTING THAT SAME DREAM THAT SAME GENEROUS SOCIAL CONTRACT AND INSTEAD ARE FINDING THAT THEY'RE IN PLACES THAT WEREN'T DESIGNED FOR THEM THAT OFTEN ARE NOT VERY WELCOMING AND CAN BE OUTRIGHT HOSTILE.

AND THEY'RE ALSO OFTEN ON THE HOOK FOR ALL OF THESE OPPORTUNITIES.

OTHER FAMILIES HAVE ALREADY EXTRACTED AS MENTIONED, RUN EDUCATION REPORTER AND YOU LOOK AT A LOT OF THE SCHOOL DISTRICTS IN THE 5 SUBURBAN COMMUNITIES THAT YOU EXAMINED.

>> WHAT DOES A COMMUNITY'S SCHOOL DISTRICT TELL YOU WHAT TELL US?

I THINK THE FIRST QUESTION 90% OF FAMILIES ASK WHEN THEY'RE LOOKING TO BUY A NEW HOME IS WHERE THE SCHOOLS IT'S REALLY CENTRAL TO THIS IDEA OF WHAT THE COMMUNITY IS ALL ABOUT.

AND WITH HIS VISION OF THE FUTURE IS.

>> AND YOU KNOW, THE WHOLE IDEA OF OUR SUBURBAN PROJECT AS A NATION IS PREDICATED ON HOUSING AND SCHOOLS AND THEY'RE INEXTRICABLY LINKED.

AND SO WHEN FAMILIES OFTEN HAVE, YOU KNOW, THIS KIND OF RECKONING MOMENT OF HATE, THIS PLACE ISN'T DOING WHAT IT WAS SUPPOSED TO DO.

THEY FEEL IT FIRST IN SCHOOLS.

AND SO THAT'S PART OF WHY FOCUS ON THAT SO MUCH IN THE BOOK.

>> YOU FOCUS ON A DIVERSE SET OF 5 FAMILIES IN DIFFERENT SUBURBS ACROSS THE COUNTRY, INCLUDING SUBURB THAT YOU GREW UP IN.

BUT ALSO EVANSTON, ILLINOIS.

SO RIGHT DOWN THE AND YOU'RE IN FACT, IN TOWN FOR AN EVENT WITH EVANSTON PUBLIC LIBRARY THERE.

HOW ARE ARE THE EXPERIENCES IN THE NEEDS OF THESE DIFFERENT FAMILIES IN DIFFERENT SUBURBS ACROSS THE COUNTRY?

DIFFERENT?

>> I THINK PART OF WHAT TO THE FAMILY SHOW IS THAT THERE'S THIS KIND OF LONG ARC OF DEVELOPMENT INTO CLIMATES, SUBURBS HAVE.

AND SO WHEN IT'S A NEW COMMUNITY, THERE'S KIND OF ONE THING THAT'S HAPPENING.

AND BY THE TIME IT'S AN AGING COMMUNITY, IT'S ANOTHER THING HAPPENING.

SO THE 5 COMMUNITIES AND 5 FAMILIES REALLY TRACE THAT AND I CAME TO EVANSTON REALLY THINKING THAT THIS WAS GOING TO BE THE PLACE THAT HAD A LONG HISTORY OF COMMITMENT TO DESEGREGATION, DIVERSITY, RACIAL EQUITY WAS A PLACE THAT OTHER PEOPLE OTHER COMMUNITIES WOULD BE ABLE TO LOOK TO FOR LESSONS ABOUT HOW TO DEAL WITH THE DEMOGRAPHIC CHANGES THAT ARE SWEEPING THROUGH SUBURBIA.

AND WHEN I WALKED AWAY WITH WAS A SENSE OF LIKE A WEIGHT.

EVANSTON HAS A LOT CHALLENGES AND PROBLEMS TOO.

AND THERE WAS THIS REAL DISCONNECT, PARTICULARLY FOR YOUNGER FAMILIES, COLOR HAVING TO DEAL WITH RACIST INCIDENTS IN SCHOOL.

HUGE ACHIEVEMENT GAPS, LACK OF REPRESENTATION OF THESE ISSUES.

AND SO EVANSTON FOR ME REALLY BECAME THIS KIND OF CRITICAL PIVOT POINT OF SAYING WE'RE IN SOME REAL TROUBLE.

HERE IS A WE'VE IN THE STORY.

YOU RECOUNT THE EVANSTON COMMUNITY'S EFFORTS TO INTEGRATE SCHOOLS BACK IN THE 60'S RESULTED IN THE CLOSING OF THE FOSTER SCHOOL THAT WAS IN A BLACK NEIGHBORHOOD, DONNELLY, BLACK COMMUNITY, CHILDREN FROM THAT DISTRICTS OR FROM THAT SCHOOL ZONE WERE BEING BUSED TO OTHER ZONES.

TELL US A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT BECAUSE, IN FACT, IN EVANSTON AND I SHOULD THAT SHOULD MENTION FULL DISCLOSURE.

MY CHILDREN ARE STUDENTS IN DISTRICT.

65 THEY'RE THEY'RE STILL EXPERIENCING SOME PROBLEMS THERE.

YEAH.

AND YOUR DISTRICT 65 IN MANY WAYS IS A NATIONAL MODEL FOR DECADES OF HOW DID BOTH START AND SUSTAIN RACIALLY BALANCED SCHOOLS AS SOMETHING THAT A LOT OTHER SUBURBAN COMMUNITIES HAVE STRUGGLED WITH.

>> WE SAW, YOU KNOW, KIND OF BARRIERS COME DOWN AND THEN RE SEGREGATION AFTER THE SUPREME COURT AND FEDERAL GOVERNMENT WALKED BACK THEIR RESPONSIBILITIES TO DESEGREGATION EVANSTON THAT STATE MAKE YOU KNOW THAT THAT KEPT ON THERE IS THIS ONGOING COMMITMENT.

AND SO I REALLY CAME IN THINKING LIKE, OKAY, THIS IS A PLACE THAT IS IS GOING TO HAVE SOMETHING TO TEACH US.

AND, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, IT KIND OF SEEING HOW THE COMPROMISES THAT WERE MADE IN THE 1960'S AROUND DESEGREGATION, PARTICULARLY AROUND THE CLOSING OF FOSTER AND PUTTING THE BURDEN OF DESEGREGATION ON BLACK FAMILIES.

BUT THAT NEVER WENT AWAY.

THERE WAS LIKE A LOT OF RESENTMENT AND A LOT OF LOST OPPORTUNITY AND A LOT LAST CAPITAL IN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD.

AND SO 50 YEARS LATER, MANY PEOPLE EVANSTON LOOKED AT IT AND SAID, HEY, WE STILL HAVE THESE HUGE ACHIEVEMENT GAPS.

MY KIDS ARE STILL GETTING CALLED SLURS IN SCHOOL.

THEY'RE STILL ALL OF THESE OTHER PROBLEMS AND WE DON'T HAVE A SCHOOL IN THE 5TH WARD.

SO WE'RE NOT SURE WHAT THE BENEFIT IS HERE FOR US.

AND WE SAW EVANSTON ACTUALLY DISTRICT 65 WALKED BACK FROM THAT COMMITMENT TO DESEGREGATION AND YOU DECIDE TO REOPEN A SCHOOL IN THE 5TH I THOUGHT THAT WAS AN INCREDIBLY POIGNANT MOMENT.

YES, MOST RECENTLY IN THE DISTRICT AS SAINT CLAIMED, IT IS A MATTER OF WRITING WHAT THEY BELIEVED TO BE HISTORICAL BRIEFLY THAT ASCENA FAMILIES, THE FAMILY THAT YOU FOLLOW IN EVANSTON, TELL US A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THEM IN THEIR EXPERIENCE DURING IS SEEN AS A MULTIRACIAL MOM.

>> HER DAD'S NIGERIAN AND DURANT.

AND SO SHE HAD GROWN UP IN EVANSTON AND MOVED AWAY AND THEN CAME BACK IN PART TO RAISE HER SON THERE AND TO SEND HIM TO THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

AND HE WAS IN FIRST GRADE WHEN HE WAS FIRST CALLED RACIAL SLURS IN SCHOOL.

AND THIS WAS AROUND 2018 AND IT WAS A TIME PERIOD WHEN I THINK EVANSTON AROUND THE COUNTRY, THERE WAS JUST A OF TOLERANCE ARE WILLING TO PUT UP WITH THAT KIND OF THING ANYMORE.

AND SO WHAT WE SAW IN EVANSTON WAS THAT LAUREN AND ANOTHER BE A KIND OF A LARGER GROUP OF A PROGRESSIVE PARENTS REALLY BECAME VERY ACTIVE IN LOCAL POLITICS.

ACTUALLY THE SCHOOL BOARD ABOUT THE POLITICS AND TOOK CONTROL OF THE SCHOOL BOARD AND REALLY PUSHED RACIAL EQUITY TO THE CENTER OF THE DISTRICT'S AGENDA WITH MIXED RESULTS.

OKAY.

THINK A LOT OF FOLKS AND SAY THERE'S BEEN MIXED RESULTS IN A LOT OF PLACES, BUT THAT IS UNFORTUNATELY WE'LL HAVE TO LEAVE THEN.

HARRELL, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

GOOD TO SEE THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

>> AGAIN, THE BOOK IS CALLED