>> From WXXI News.

This is Connections.

I'm Evan Dawson.

Our connection this hour was made with what was probably meant to be an off hand comment, but became sort of a national news story during a recent interview with Matthew McConaughey, Oscar nominee and actor Timothée Chalamet said, no one cares about ballet and opera.

The comments started a kind of a firestorm with artists in those fields emphasizing the value of centuries old modes of artistic expression.

March is music in our schools month, and local students are spending time focusing on the value of the classic art forms.

We're going to talk to local artists and some students about it.

Some of our colleagues are going to weigh in.

But first, we continue our weekly roundup of the stories, generating a lot of buzz.

Capitol Bureau reporter Samuel King will join us from Albany to talk about the latest with the New York state budget that's coming up.

But first, two local businesses are working to come together under one roof.

And it is not just a business story, as WXXI Investigations and Enterprise Editor Brian Sharp reports, it's a story about community and culture.

And Brian is here to tell us about that.

Welcome back here.

Nice to have you here.

>> Thanks for having me.

>> we're going to listen to your story in just a second on this, but why don't you start by setting it up a little bit?

What are the businesses we're talking about here?

>> We're talking about Malek's Bakery and Lipman's deli and meat market in Brighton.

They're both shops along Monroe Avenue.

they've been there for decades and they're really just, you know, woven into the fabric of the community as well as the, the Jewish community specifically.

but they've been struggling.

>> And before we listen, I mean, I just want to say we had planned to have this conversation.

It just so happens to come a day after another targeted shooting the Jewish community targeted in, I think, Bloomfield Hills outside Detroit.

in that case, the attacker was killed.

Kids were kept safe, community was kept safe, but certainly it's shaken up a lot of people.

And so we're focusing here locally on a story about Jewish culture, as Brian said, and these businesses working together.

I want to listen first to Brian's story, and then we're going to kind of come out and talk about what this means for the cultural milieu here.

Let's listen.

>> It's really not sustainable.

This this bakery does not support a family.

>> Now owns and operates Malik's and Lipman's with his wife, Anna.

>> There are many ways in which we operate at a loss while we're trying to build these businesses together, because you know, the community needs this.

>> These are the only kosher shops left in Brighton and Rochester for that matter, which is significant because Rochester is home to the second largest Jewish population in the state outside of New York City.

And nearly half of that population lives in Brighton.

Here's Rabbi Peter Stein of Temple B'rith Kodesh.

He has joined rabbis across the community in urging town officials to approve the project.

>> One of the reasons why there's been this advocacy effort is there's a real need to maintain the strength of our community.

If, you know Jewish families here are trying to decide whether to stay.

If the grown kids are trying to decide whether to stay and raise their own kids here, this is going to be a really significant piece of it.

>> The combined shop would be on South Winton near 12 corners, in what today is a vacant one story building with a blue awning, Brian Sharp WXXI News.

>> All right, so these are the last kosher markets in Rochester.

Right.

But you report that the market for kosher food is growing in the United States and around the world here.

So tell me a little bit more of of what we understand about that.

>> So and in looking at some of the research and market reports on this, because I was curious.

Yeah.

Why, why we used to, you know, have thriving good number of Jewish businesses here.

and finding that, and I was figuring, I was like, well, this must be happening everywhere, but as people have gone more health conscious, want to understand more of the source of their food.

maybe, you know, in case here gone dairy free they've turned to foods like kosher foods.

So that has, but those that growth has largely been been realized or capitalized on by major food labels.

and so you have shops like here, you know, they're operating a, when I was there that day, their oven had broken and, and it was noting to me that their oven is model number two.

they operate, it's still a very, they have display cases where Knopf was talking about, you know, you have so many options now for prepackaged and the way that they do things.

And now if you come in and whatever you want, pretty much you need to have a staff member go and get it for you from the.

And they want to be able to do.

They've brought more things like, you know, online ordering and stuff, but they need to, to make these businesses successful.

They need to not be operating under two separate locations.

And they need to sort of bring them forward to 2026.

>> And we heard from Rabbi Peter Stein in your piece.

I think we got a little more that we can listen to from the rabbi on this subject.

Let's listen.

>> I think a lot of it is driven by the numbers and not just numbers of people, but what their religious practices are.

But to me, it's not.

It doesn't matter how many people have the need, but the need is really critical because even if it's a smaller number, we need to make sure the community is attracting and keeping this this part of the Jewish community.

>> And you write that the location here was important.

Tell me a little bit more about that.

>> Yeah, there are and we have, I think, another clip on on this because that's what I asked him.

It's like, you know, you're right here and right here and, and you're just moving kind of around the block.

and he said, that's partly what took a while to find because you're in a busy stretch of, of Monroe Avenue.

You're right.

Kind of at the heart of Brighton and to find an available site.

but when you think of the Jewish community, particularly the Jewish, where kosher would be important that, that population, those synagogues are located right along that stretch.

And so it's like you had to stay there.

>> Yeah.

Let's listen to Hannah on that subject.

>> Was that important?

Yes.

Right at the.

>> Corners, everything.

Because I mean, these are the kind of businesses that you have to drive by six times a day to stop once, like the, the kosher keeping community is centered on the Monroe Avenue corridor.

We have four synagogues basically between 12 corners and Culver.

So our customers, you know, are just up and down and up and down.

If you're out of the way, they're not coming.

You know?

oh, I've been meaning to go, but I didn't pass by, so we have to be where people can easily get to where they can walk or where they can send their kids to pick something up or, or it won't work.

>> And so before we wrap up here, this is going to get settled up.

Well, we could see some progress before the end of this month here.

The town board meets on March 25th.

But for this couple, this is also a chance to kind of create a better sense and collect Jewish food history.

I know that matters to them a lot there.

Tell me a little bit about that.

>> So the they're going to have the combined space.

They also are going to have a pocket park dedicated to the Marian and Steven Hess twins, survivors of the Holocaust.

they're going to offer cooking classes.

and Anna particularly was talking about, you know, wanting to get history newspaper clippings, et cetera.

just about the history of Jewish food in Rochester, which is the history of Rochester.

And she made a comment something, you know, it's like, this is a new building, but it's important to link to the past.

and just, yeah, how much you really got a sense from as she talks, how much they are part of not just the business community, but really the community and the, the lives and the milestones of, of the people who, you know, come to their shops.

>> And I think we've got one more cut from Anna on that subject.

Let's listen.

>> You know, not grew up here, but we didn't live here for a long time.

I didn't grow up here.

But coming back, it really feels like we've been entrusted with, you know, we're not rabbis, but this is a, a pillar of, of the community.

You know, when somebody passes away, people call us.

People who don't live in Rochester will say, I want to send food to so-and-so's house.

And sometimes, sometimes I will even say, you know what?

I just sent a platter of rugelach.

Maybe you want to do a dessert platter, and maybe we'll do it for tomorrow's Shiva, you know, so it's not like I'm managing the event, but we are.

We are the place that makes the things.

And then we do the the bristles and the baby namings.

And so it has to work for our family.

But it is very much in service of the community and all of the rhythms of, of life, you know, and it's, I'm very humbled by it.

I'm very, you know, I don't take it lightly.

>> So what put this story on your radar?

>> It was I was actually talking with Supervisor Maley early on, and he had mentioned, hey, we got this, this project coming.

and yeah, just saw that.

And they were very deferential.

They have a lengthy proposal where they've brought in everything of, look, this is where we'll put the air conditioning units so it won't make noise for the neighbors.

This is where we'll do this where, you know how will and they they wanted to wait until to make sure nothing had come up that they hadn't thought about.

but like I say, and I think the thing that really struck me was the fact that they had, you know, Rabbi Stein was one of, I believe it was 8 or 9 rabbis, every representing every synagogue in Brighton and adjacent to Brighton signing on saying this, we need to figure out how to how to do this, how to how to save these businesses.

You have the Farish Foundation stepping forward, offering some low interest or, you know, offering some construction financing to help this go.

It just shows how significant this is for the community.

>> Do you get anything to.

>> Eat?

>> That was I need to go back.

it's one of those things, you know, I was always.

mentioned as a journalist.

You're not supposed to, you know, and, but yeah, it was it's tough to go into a bakery.

>> Yeah.

>> And, and then walk out.

So.

>> Sometime on your downtime.

>> Yeah.

>> On your work.

>> A lot.

>> Of discipline to do that.

Thank you.

Brian Sharp.

Nice to see you.

You too.

on the state budget with Samuel King all this is the month of March, and this is always the sort of the, the final battles on what gets in and what is not in.

And we're going to talk to Samuel King from Albany next.

>> I'm Evan Dawson Monday on the next Connections.

Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro has become a presidential contender.

He attended the University of Rochester Monday.

We sit down with one of his university professors who's become a friend of his.

About Shapiro's career and his prospects.

What comes next?

Here in our second hour, we talked to author Chuck Collins, who is coming to Rochester, about his new book, Burned by Billionaires How Concentrated Wealth and Power Are Ruining Our Lives.

>> Support for your public radio station comes from our members and from Bob Johnson Auto Group.

Believing an informed public makes for a stronger community.

Proud supporter of Connections with Evan Dawson focused on the news, issues and trends that shape the lives of listeners in the Rochester and Finger Lakes regions.

Bob Johnson Auto Group.com.

>> This is Connections.

This is the Friday Roundup and Samuel King is Capitol News Bureau reporter for the New York Public News Network.

It is March.

The budget is on.

Is in the balance here.

And Sam is joining us from Albany.

So both the Assembly and the Senate have voted on their budget proposals.

Samuel, take us through what's going on and what's next here.

>> Well, one thing that both of the budget proposals had in them were tax increases.

That hasn't been unusual.

over the past few years, both the Assembly and Senate have included tax increases on the wealthy in their budgets.

And you're doing so again to help fund a lot of the priorities, including child care and money for New York City and other municipalities across the state, including Rochester.

Both of the One-house proposals include about $40 million in aid for Rochester, above what the governor had put in her aim, her aid for municipalities proposal.

So a lot of some differences in these budgets.

But of course, the main difference is, is the tax proposals from the Assembly and the Senate.

>> So we've got some sound that Sam has pulled together from a number of different parties here, because this is a big this is a big sort of internecine fight here.

This is not a Republicans versus Democrats, so to speak.

We're going to talk about that.

I want to listen first to Senator Andrea Stewart-Cousins on the subject of taxes.

>> I think with the challenges that we are seeing from the federal government and the reality of so many, again, of our needs in New York State that people depend on we will we will earnestly and honestly push to make sure that some of these things are included.

It's just important.

I think the momentum is, is certainly on our side.

>> Now.

Back in January, the governor does a state of the state, she puts out a budget and she says, specifically, we don't need like an ultra wealthy tax.

We don't need a millionaire's tax.

We don't need a high earners tax.

We can do this without it.

So why are the Democrats in the Assembly, in the Senate knowing where the governor is on this?

Why are they making this a line in the sand?

>> Well, a lot of it is where their conferences are, their respective members of the party.

There's a lot of momentum particularly after the election of New York City Mayor Zohran Mamdani.

He has called for some tax increases and specifically in the city they have a major budget deficit.

So he's saying if the state doesn't raise taxes on the very wealthy, on the millionaires, he'll be forced to raise property taxes in the city.

And that is something the speaker has called a nonstarter.

But the governor, as you mentioned, continues to sort of draw that line in the sand even this week, still saying that she does not support a sort of a tax increase.

But what they're saying is you need revenue to do all of the things that they want to do in this budget.

So that's what they continue to sort of push for these tax increases.

But we'll see if that actually becomes a reality.

once the budget is finalized.

>> Yeah.

Before we listen to some more sound, we're going to hear from the Assembly Speaker.

We're going to hear from the governor.

We're going to hear from the Senate minority leader.

Before we do that, just briefly, you bring up Zohran Mamdani, who's obviously now the mayor of New York City, one of the really high profile political figures in the country now.

And he comes right out of the New York State Assembly.

So he knows how this works.

And from your reporting and from what I'm reading elsewhere here, if this high earners tax went through the legislature's proposals would raise at least 4 billion in revenue for the state, 2.5 billion for New York City.

So for some of the critics, sometimes, Sam, I hear the critics say, well, look, this is you know, this is Zohran Mamdani sort of wagging the legislature.

He's getting what he wants in childcare.

He's going to get what he wants in taxes.

Everything happening is about New York City.

From what I'm seeing from you here, this isn't just about placating Mamdani.

This is something that a lot of rank and file in the party want statewide, not just for New York City.

Is that fair?

>> Correct.

As to fund tax, to fund it?

Not necessarily tax, but to fund things like education, to fund things like childcare throughout the state, the Assembly and Senate proposals include some money to expand childcare.

The Assembly, for example, would help expand pre-K across the state.

Again, these are just proposals.

These are just statements of positions, not necessarily what's going to be in the final budget, but what we hear, particularly from the left and progressives, is we need this.

We need this tax revenue to help improve people's lives.

So when it comes to education, when it comes to higher education, when it comes to things like childcare, we need this extra revenue to fund things.

So it isn't just New York City.

That's where a lot of the push is coming from.

But it's not just what the mayor says goes.

There are people here in Albany, as evidenced by even before the mayor went to office, that these tax sort of tax increase proposals have been in the budgets that certainly support raising taxes on the wealthy.

>> Well, we heard a voice from.

>> And we should note.

>> Oh, yeah.

Go ahead.

>> I'm sorry.

Just real quick, we should note that the assembly does include a small middle class tax cut.

Its budget proposal.

So it's not just the tax increases in those budget proposals.

>> Okay.

We did hear from State Senator Andrea Stewart-Cousins.

Let's listen to New York State Assembly Speaker Carl Heastie on taxes.

>> As I'm saying to you, I'm committed to making sure that the city and all of the cities around the state are on solid financial ground.

So that's what my commitment is.

I'm not committed to any one tax or all taxes.

We needed to put forward a financial plan that does everything that we would like to see as an assembly body, but, you know, there's many, many ways for us to get somewhere.

So I'm committed to getting cities that are in distress and in other communities as well.

The help that they need.

>> All right.

That's the Assembly Speaker.

So now that the proposals from the legislature have been released, what does Governor Hochul have to say about these things?

Well, let's listen to some of the sound from Governor Kathy Hochul.

>> Our tax base has been eroded.

So I philosophically don't have a problem.

It is like I have to look at the fact that we are in competition with other states who have less of a tax burden on their corporations and their individuals, and I would say remote work changed everything.

You know, Wall Street businesses looking at Texas, they're not going there because they have a nicer governor.

I know that for sure, but they're going there because of the tax rate.

We have to be smart about this and what we can fund, what we want to fund with what we already are taking in.

>> Okay, so she's staying where she is.

Any way to predict where this goes?

Does a deal get done behind closed doors?

What what's going to settle this?

Samuel.

>> Well, that's usually where the deals happen.

Even in, you know, you're heard earlier this week when you're talking about the pension discussion, the whole three men in a room thing, you know, it's now two women in a room in a room.

And it's still a lot of that happens sort of behind closed doors until we get to an agreement.

Seems to be the consensus that the governor is still going to stand firm on income taxes.

But some of the other, you know, quote, revenue raisers in the budget, whether it's corporate tax or something like that, maybe there's some compromise on on that.

So it remains to be seen just how firm everyone is in their positions, particularly the legislature.

It's only been once during the pandemic that we actually saw those proposals to raise taxes on, on, on the wealthy, actually make it through.

So but, you know, the governor continues to maintain, you know, as we said recently, it's a couple of days ago, that political event, we just heard that there is enough money there in the budget to do the things in the proposals that that she wants to do.

So really Monday sort of is getting of those sort of conference committees where the two bodies come together and discuss, discuss budgets.

So we'll see what happens from that point.

>> All right.

Well, Republicans are, of course, in the minority in Albany, but they still have a voice.

And let's listen to some of the remarks from Senate Minority Leader Rob Ortt here.

>> It used to be to me, the one houses were sort of the negotiating starting point for the for the two conferences.

I can't believe that the governor will see this as as anything, even in the ballpark.

And I hope to God she does not her budget was an increase and plenty to pick apart there.

This is really just, you know, a sort of a far left.

If I were king for a day document and to me, it does not reflect fiscal realities.

The notion that we're going to, we're going to expand the state budget by $16 billion more is just unbelievable.

>> So how much juice do they have to to affect the outcome here?

Samuel?

>> you know, honestly, not much now that they are not in control of the state Senate, they can sort of slow things down.

during that news conference, the Senate minority leader did say that they received two hours to debate the budget in the Senate, and they pledged to use the full two hours.

And that is what happened.

And then once the budget is adopted, they can raise their voice, they can slow things down.

They can they can bring things up.

you know, and they have mentioned that, you know, affordability that is something, you know, we are in an election year, of course, for the governor and for members of the legislature.

So affordability is one thing that is top of mind.

And Republicans also are criticizing the governor and the legislature for sort of not taking more action on utility rates.

we've had sort of this discussion that the governor wants to take a step back on the 2019 climate law, saying that, you know, it's, you know, some more of you need more time for implementation of that law.

And that's sort of that the memo that came out that said upstate households could expect to spend 4000 more a year in costs.

So she's trying to get that the Senate and excuse me, in the Assembly the Assembly does not include anything about that in their budget.

The speaker has a long standing policy of no policy or credo whatever.

No policy in the budget.

If it doesn't have a fiscal tie to it.

so that kind of gets them around a lot of these sort of controversial questions that aren't necessarily, you know, budget related.

so be interesting to see with that.

The assembly plan does include a plan for utility rebate proposal that is not in the governor's proposal, that is not in the Senate proposal.

But that's one thing that they're pushing forward with an eye of, hey, we hear you about these utility bills.

Here's one time relief.

But back to the Republicans, you know, they're saying rebate doesn't go far enough.

They they are pushing for sort of lasting relief from a lot of these costs and high cost things.

>> All right.

Before we let you go here, we know that it's supposed to be April 1st.

We know that in past years they've gone into May not gotten it done.

And, you know, they've got holidays.

If they if they miss this deadline.

You've said the holidays could drag this out in April.

So should we be hopeful that this is going to get done on time.

>> We've heard this week the speaker said this week that he's confident that this would be a if a timely whether it's exactly April 1st is a question.

But you know, it is simply a ways and means chair also said it would be the end of the month, but you know, we'll see what happens with sort of this climate law thing and auto insurance.

I'm just looking at the calendar.

Easter is the fifth the state legislature and Passover is coming up too.

So the legislature is scheduled to take a two week break beginning on the sixth.

so we'll see if they get the budget done.

before that or if it's like past years and they have to work through that planned break.

>> Samuel King.

I don't know how you do all that you do, but we are so glad that you do.

Capitol News Bureau reporter for NY p n the New York Public News Network.

Great stuff.

We'll look for more from you.

Thanks for joining us this Friday afternoon.

>> Thank you Evan.

>> Appreciate it.

>> He's a dynamo.

He is really great.

Great to have him reporting for all of us across the state.

We're going to close the week talking about the arts and a little controversy.

They're going to have some fun with that next.

I'm Evan Dawson Monday on the next Connections.

Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro has become a presidential contender.

He attended the University of Rochester Monday.

We sit down with one of his university professors who's become a friend of his.

About Shapiro's career and his prospects.

What comes next?

Here?

In our second hour, we talked to author Chuck Collins, who is coming to Rochester, about his new book , Burned by Billionaires How Concentrated Wealth and Power Are Ruining Our Lives.

>> Support for your public radio station comes from our members and from Monroe County Economic Development.

Accepting applications for the Micro Advantage Loan program designed to help small businesses with expenses such as equipment upgrades, marketing and hiring details at Monroe County, Business.org.

>> History isn't just something that happened a long time ago.

It's happening right now.

This month, we're going to introduce you to women in our community who are doing the work and making change happen.

As part of our Women's History Month series.

Listen for those stories here or find them at wxxinews.org.

>> As public radio stations across the country navigate an uncertain funding future, it's time for you to become a sustaining member or increase your monthly contribution to your public radio station.

Your support ensures the future of independent media in this community and beyond.

>> This is Connections.

I'm Evan Dawson.

We are ending the week with a conversation about music in our schools, and it has even more significance.

After some comments about the arts went viral.

It's never really fun to see people who work in the arts sort of creating this hierarchy.

And what's more important than others.

We'll talk about that in a moment.

In fact, we're going to hear some of those comments that blew up on Timothée Chalamet.

First, let me welcome our guests here.

Mona Seghatoleslami, music director, host and producer for WXXI Classical 91 five.

>> Hello, hello.

>> I always love having you in this studio.

Thank you for popping down with us.

Our colleague Hannah Maier is going to join us shortly.

Music director and afternoon host for The Route.

Hello Patty Yarmel Dr.

Yaramail, founder and co-director of Strings for Success.

Nice to see you.

Thanks for being here.

>> Oh, it's great to be here.

Thanks for having me.

>> And let me welcome Tavion Wells, a sixth grader at the Dr.

Charles T Lunsford School, number 19 in the Rochester City School District.

Thank you for being here.

>> You're welcome.

Thanks for having me.

>> And hello, Jason, who has the distinguished pleasure of being Tabitha's dad, who's alongside.

Nice to see you as well.

Here.

>> Thank you.

Thank you for having us.

>> So we'll get into some of that controversy in just a second here.

But Mona, like we don't need to like create this Olympics of who's better and who's the gold medal art, right?

I mean, like ultimately we're going to listen in a minute to what Shalom said.

But I don't think classical, whether I'm listening to classical, whether I'm listening to The Route, whether I'm listening to my own playlist, I don't why are we ranking things and talking about.

>> I don't think we are.

And even that phrase, you know, the classics matter is that is that just code for not listening to new things, just to establish things?

So I think that making music matters.

Of course, listening is great.

And I think that's the thing.

People shouldn't feel bad.

Oh, I don't know how to play.

I never learned an instrument.

You find meaning in it.

It means so much.

But of course, I think as Patty and as others here would say, is that there is something special about playing music with your friends, creating things, whether it's starting a band or being part of an orchestra, or if it's going to be dance is your thing.

We talk so much about like social disconnection and how we get to know each other.

Music is the way that I've become friends with so many people.

So I guess, yeah, I don't know if that's quite the answer to your question.

>> I think it is.

Let's listen.

So, Shalom, I was talking to Matthew McConaughey and this is how this all kind of blew up on him.

Let's listen to what Shalom said.

>> I admire people and I've done it myself.

Do you want to talk?

But hey, we got to keep movie theaters alive.

You know, we got to keep this genre alive.

And another part of me feels like if people want to see it like Barbie, like Oppenheimer, they're going to go see it and go out of their way to be loud and proud about it.

And I don't want to be working in ballet or opera or, you know, things where it's like, hey, keep this thing alive.

>> Even though, like, no one cares about this anymore.

>> All respect to the ballet and opera people out there.

I just lost $0.14 in viewership.

But, I just took shots for no reason.

>> At least at the end, he acknowledged Mona.

I just took shots at them for no reason.

Like.

Like it kind of like instantly you could see him trying to pull the words back into his mouth.

>> Well, here's my theory.

Secretly a huge fan, because opera and ballet companies are doing so well with this 20% off tickets.

Use coupon code Shalom.

So you.

>> Got to take a controversy and make it like a marketing campaign.

>> But the big thing is there's this idea, yes, that he's even in a field movies that are people going to keep going to the movies in the same way?

>> Exactly.

>> And the only thing is things certainly change, but we keep reaching back to something, whether it's because it's got some message that someone's centuries ago understood or whether again, it's about that experience, the shared experience of sitting at the little theater, laughing at gremlins around Christmas, or the shared experience of, again, playing a string duet with someone.

>> Yeah.

And those remarks, you're making a really important point.

Here.

He is not one to talk at a time when there's a lot of talk of closing movie theaters and people talk about Shalom wants to be great.

I appreciate that about him.

He wants to win Oscars.

He wants to be considered great.

He's in a field that's changing, too, and everyone is sort of trying to figure out how.

>> To say he's closer to great when he's in Marty's Supreme than when he's sort of boring and doon.

>> I should come on every week and do pop culture analysis.

Absolutely, 100%.

but like, I just don't know that we need to single out any form.

I remember when I started hosting this program 12 years ago and people were saying, hey, you got to have a conversation about like, is it the death of classical is classical.

That's been written, that article has been written like every other year.

>> It's actually been written since the Middle Ages.

Was it or since, you know, Renaissance were madrigals going to kill classical music?

Was recording the death of classical music is our oldest story.

So that's one, two, I'd say the counterexample in popular culture and maybe it'll come up is when I saw the halftime show with Bad Bunny, with all the musicians, whether they're string musicians, salsa musicians, great brass bands, John Carlos Guerrero, the conductor of the orchestra, all part of this vibrant musical experience was a reminder.

And I actually saw a video online of a kid watching it saying, I want to do that.

Pointing at one of the violin players.

So that to me is, I guess, the thing to run towards.

Then away from Shalom's comments.

>> Sure.

>> And, you know, all of which brings us to let's talk about what's happening in our own community with the arts.

And we're going to talk to moan about this.

We're going to talk to Hannah about this.

In fact you know, learning from some of the work Hannah did on this subject, according to the National Association for Music Education, 92% of children as of 2019 had access to music education.

Only 49% actually participated in the offerings.

And what's the first thing that pops for you there, Mona, when you hear so 92% still have some kind of music education, I guess available, but less than half kids are doing it.

>> So there are a lot of things I think that go into this, and Patty probably can speak to this, is that although you might have a school music program or you might have a program that's after school, do you have a ride to get there?

Do you have the instrument?

Do you have all the little things that go with it that I think we sometimes take for granted that are beyond the actual music learning?

And of course, you know, I'm fine with I think Herb Smith has talked about his someone that in his life learned or somebody who has said someone started music didn't love it turns out dance was their thing.

It might be something else than music.

I'm always happy when people have their thing, but I think there are things that keep people from participating.

Besides, it's there.

>> So music in our schools month.

before we kick you out and let Hanna come in and take your seat here these kind of efforts, do you think they make a dent?

Do you think they, they can start that fire in, in kids?

>> I think so I think it's, you know, we maybe those of us in music know it all the time that this matters.

But I think these sort of coordinate efforts mean that we can make sure to get some more resources, more attention on the people who are doing the work every day that day where it's cold and snowy and you're tired and you forgot your violin or your rosin, and the teacher is still there to encourage you, the students are still getting together and making music, even if it's a crummy day.

It's that kind of thing that happens all the time.

But this is just a chance to shine a spotlight on it.

And I'd say the other thing that I recently saw, I want to read this study is that a doctor from Mount Sinai, I think a music therapist, did some work with Jon Batiste of The Tonight Show band on the social connection factors in music.

So that shows that also popular people and people thinking very academically, not just music, is nice, but it's really essential.

I think that work goes forward too.

>> Let me get a little wonky in this last question for you, and I'll.

>> Let you go.

>> Yeah, yeah, because I've been thinking a lot about the way tech is changing culture.

And Sean Illing is a really smart writer who writes about how the least democratic kind of cultural changes through technology.

So when television arises, like in the 1960s, I think it's like you're getting a television, like whether you want it or not.

>> But you're also getting the Leonard Bernstein young People's concerts.

>> So sure.

I mean, like there's always a trade off.

But Illing writes that tech doesn't really give us a choice.

Yes, you can resist.

but most of us will have a phone now whether you want it or not.

Most of us are on it more often than we want to be.

And I'm thinking about the surveys of Americans who say that they don't love technology.

A majority of Americans say that they'd rather iPhones were not, did not exist.

They'd rather TikTok did not exist.

Teenagers say that, and yet they spend hours on it.

So we don't want this much change.

We don't want entire art forms go away.

We don't want all of this sea change.

But tech is kind of forcing these things.

How much is that collision?

Who's going to win that Mona?

Because if tech has its way, we're going to see more A.I.

music.

We're going to see fewer actual human creators.

I know somebody in California who's turning to A.I., who I never thought would to create me.

I'm going like, I can't believe I had this conversation.

I can't believe you're doing this.

And he's like, well, it's easier than just getting people together in a room.

And I'm like, well, isn't that what we should be doing?

>> I also have to say, I've been thinking a lot about this because I'm reading a book about the cost of the perfect playlist and Spotify and how it's changed the music industry.

Actually, for books sandwiched in.

And even before you get to A.I., there is so much soulless nonsense about how music is marketed to us as like background and lifestyle stuff and company like literal corporate behaviors over technology companies that own people own the music production that makes certain things that they pay less royalties for.

And so then they put those on playlists over the artists, you know, so that they have to pay less.

And it's changed tastes in music.

But as I get through the A.I.

section into the back half of the book, it is about the human aspect.

Because of course, this destroys livelihoods also.

Absolutely.

And changes the way our brain revolves around music.

But the thing is, every time I read this book, I feel like I'm waiting right before a concert or before a rehearsal.

And so the big antidote to feeling like garbage when I read some of this stuff is to pick up my viola and play to hear some real people make some music at the little cafe, to know that I feel like that, or the project that I'm excited about.

Coming next month at Eastman, where hundreds of musicians will be on Pahlavi making music together in a special piece called Broadcast by Lisa Bielawa.

I just spoke to.

There are many things that I may do or.

Easier for technology, and I like it, or use it, or fall into sort of those easy.

Whether it's traps or just convenience.

And it's actually good.

It might be more democratizing in some ways every time.

It's not replacing whatever that human thing we do together is.

That's a bit messy, a bit weird.

You fight with your bandmates, you stress about getting to the gig and loading all your gear in.

But there's something really amazing about the act of making music and the act of listening to it, how you feel after you've gone to a concert that you even thought, do I really want to go out tonight?

And then you come home and you're like, oh man, I just heard that.

I love it.

So that's, I guess what it is.

It's yeah, it's all going to be there.

It's going to change.

It's going to be complicated.

We do have some power though, in how we choose to consume things, how we choose to compensate our artists and how we choose to involve ourselves in, I guess you could call it the means of production.

>> So good.

Thank you.

Mona Mona Seghatoleslami is going to step aside for our colleague Hannah Maier from The Route, but that's the great Mona Seghatoleslami who you can hear as a music director, host and producer on classical 91.5 FM.

So let's talk about music in our schools here.

And Hanna, you recently interviewed Patty about music in our Schools Month.

By the way, it's nice to have you in our studio here.

>> Hey, thanks for having me.

>> Great to.

>> Have you.

Yes, I did get to interview the wonderful Patty Yarmel and that interview is up on The Route.org.

And she was so gracious to come in and speak with me.

And I learned so much about Strings for Success and music in our schools.

>> So, Patty, you want to just set the scene for people who don't know music in our schools and what Strings for Success is, do a little explainer first, and then we're going to talk to Tavion about the value of this kind of experience.

But what do you want people to understand about what's going on right now?

>> So I'll tell you a little bit about the history of Strings for Success.

I'm actually the founder of the program, and it started 18 years ago, and it was founded on the belief that every child should have the opportunity to participate in the arts, because as Mona was saying, there's something that happens.

It's it's magical, it's transformational when you actually have the opportunity to pick up an instrument and learn it and study it in a very concentrated way.

And so, yes, there are a lot of opportunities, but many kids don't have the opportunity to participate.

So my goal was to create a program in a school to partner with the school and make it an inclusive program where everybody that wanted to participate could participate.

And everyone was all in.

So if you had bad behavior, if you weren't doing well in reading, it didn't matter.

Everyone was involved.

So we started with 16 children and a bunch of collected instruments from the community.

I went out and just asked people, do you have any instruments?

The program started with these few kids.

And I think if it's sort of like a good contagion, as soon as people saw what was going on, they all wanted to participate.

Fast forward 18 years later, every single third grader starts on the violin.

And then the program runs through sixth grade.

And if you're in school, you're in.

If you want to be in and very few kids say, I don't want to play an instrument, this.

This program is all strings.

So we have your standard strings, violin, viola, cello and bass.

and we have a lot of fun.

It's, it's transformational.

We, what I've learned through this program is that music changes us.

It's not it's, it's powerful.

You walk into a room and you may be having a bad day.

You turn on the radio, you hear a beautiful song, and all of a sudden you're transformed.

Same thing.

You walk into an early morning rehearsal.

You might be tired.

Something might have happened on the school bus.

Whatever.

Something happened along the way.

You come into the room and you pick up your instrument and magic is created and you walk out of that room after a rehearsal with all your friends and the excitement of preparing for a concert, a changed person.

>> I agree that music can change you.

Hannah Maier what was the first instrument you ever picked up?

>> Oh great question.

probably.

I had piano lessons when I was really little and like.

>> Seven, eight.

>> probably like five.

But you know what?

Actually, I think the first instrument I ever picked up was a recorder.

We all had to learn the recorder.

>> Yeah.

>> I went, I went to Montessori school and we all had to play an instrument and learn a language.

So at the age of three, they handed me a recorder and were trying to teach me French, which I kind of remember a little bit of both.

>> did a recorder or did a five year old piano lesson.

did it stick in a way, or did it change you in a way that you feel like still matters to you?

>> my initial reaction is, no, not really.

I didn't really like either, but my parents were so determined to get me to continue to pursue music.

They let me pick whatever I wanted.

So when I got a little bit older, I started playing guitar, and that was where I really felt like, okay, this is really cool.

I love this instrument.

This is something I want to go home and practice.

This is fun for me.

I do think sometimes for kids it takes a little while.

You know, you might not like the first instrument that you pick.

It is important to stick with it and see it through.

Go through the lessons and go through the motions.

But it's also okay to try something else.

>> Yeah, absolutely.

And that path that you had is kind of what Patty's talking about.

You start with the violin in third grade.

Maybe it's not the violin in eighth grade.

Maybe it's something else, but maybe that foundation of feeling like you can create something is there.

That's a seed that can grow, can't it?

>> Absolutely.

And I think that once you've had the experience of what it feels like to be a musician, whether it's violin, whether you've changed to trumpet, the importance is you have the experience and it has changed you.

The other thing that happens when you're playing an instrument, it's a community experience.

And so you're building connection, community.

You're learning how to cooperate, you're learning how to work in a group.

It helps with your study discipline, all these beautiful collateral benefits in addition to music.

>> I mean, we're going to talk to Fabian in just a second, I guess on that one point.

I just have to ask Hannah something because this has been sticking in my craw.

>> Oh.

Oh goodness.

>> No, no, but Patty's right here.

That group work together.

It's hard.

Creating art is not supposed to be easy.

Creating something new is not always a straight line.

And sometimes if you're collaborating, there's disagreement.

sometimes that makes it.

Often that's what makes it better.

And my issue now, like I mentioned, talking to a guy in California who's been writing music for years, and now he calls me and he's like, I've got a bunch of songs and he sends them.

And I instantly was like, those are A.I., aren't they?

He's like, yeah, but he's like, it's my stuff.

He's like I said, he said, I wrote most of the lyrics and most of the guitar music.

I just asked for Suno to add piano and drums or bass, and it filled him in and he's like, I don't have time to get together with people in a room.

And I'm going, like that.

Friction is what matters in music.

Yeah, a machine is not the same thing.

>> Absolutely not.

And you can hear the connection between the people in the bands.

I mean, some of the best bands I've ever heard or met that have some great music, they do not get along.

I've definitely met some band bands and members and people that I've tried to play with, and it just doesn't work out all the time.

But that's part of the experience of being in a group and being a human, interacting with other humans and creating art.

>> Well, we concluded that conversation, me saying like, I like the songs.

I can't wait to hear human beings playing them.

And like, okay, maybe that's the compromise here, but I don't want to go off on an A.I.

tangent.

Let's talk to Tabby and Tibion Tibion Walz, a sixth grader now at the Lunsford School.

you picked up a first violin.

So when did you first pick up an instrument?

I'll ask that.

>> I think when I was about nine, no, not eight, 10 or 11.

>> Okay.

So was it in school.

>> Or it was nine.

Yes, it was in school.

>> And what do you first remember about playing it for the first time?

>> I first remember that when I started, when I picked it up out of the case, I remember either Miss Garfield or Miss Yaramail walking over and saying we were doing we had already done something with like a pencil so we could learn how to hold the bow.

And so then when I saw the bow, I was so excited and like this, like exciting feeling rushed through my body to finally hold a violin and like, yeah.

>> First of all, that's an incredible endorsement, isn't it?

That's yeah.

>> That's awesome.

So I think that for me, people say, how does this not get old?

I've been doing this for 18 years.

And I think that what Fabian just said is just it, it's that first time when you open a case and you see a child's excitement.

I remember one child that she literally was shaking because she said that she was waiting her whole life to play the violin.

Now, mind you, she was eight years old.

And when she opened that case, the look on her eyes, she just sparkled.

And it was.

That still is magical for me.

And this one particular girl went on to the school of the Arts to pursue violin and went off to college and.

But I just will never forget that.

And it happens every time.

Every time I'm in a third grade class and I see them open the cases and it's it's magical.

>> So Tabi'un now you're a sixth grader.

How often are you playing music?

>> usually I play at home, so I play almost every single day.

And we have practices held at our school.

School 19 and they're usually about, I think, 30 minutes long.

And it's really fun because we get to learn all kinds of music and stuff, and we're learning two new songs.

You just started learning two new songs, so I'm excited.

>> Do you pick it up when you don't have to?

Would you pick it up on your own?

Sometimes, yes.

Yeah, yeah, not just when dad says you have to.

>> Yep.

>> Dad can confirm.

>> I can confirm.

I will say a couple years ago, Tavion came home from school on a nice spring day and said, can I practice outside?

And so next thing we know, he carries his violin and his music outside, and he's playing on the street corner and then decided to put out a hat too, and I think raised a few dollars as well from our neighbors that passed by.

But just the joy of being outside and making music was amazing to see.

>> So it sounds to me, Jason, like you feel that the work that Patty is doing here is delivering the intended results with kids.

>> Absolutely, absolutely.

Tavian started at school 19 in third grade, and we didn't know anything about the school.

We didn't know anything about Strings for Success.

He was just placed in that school.

He and his older sister Tamaya, and they both fell in love with violin and making music and spending the time with their friends, collaborating and creating something beautiful.

>> I promise you, I'm not asking you this question in like a cheesy way, just like parent to parent.

How cool is it to see an interest in something that's not on a screen?

You know, that's not just what can distract us, but something that's truly beautiful, that's taken root in your child.

>> What's amazing, I think seeing the creativity and the joy and the, the life that happens when Tavian picks up his violin or he's out there in the sports field too.

I mean, all the other things that Tavian does, but amazing to see music be part of his life.

>> So what do you want to do with the violin in the future?

>> well, I just applied to go to school of the Arts.

when I'm there, I'm hoping like, well, I'll.

Of course I'll be playing violin, but with the violin, I'm hoping to like, go out and become famous.

Maybe because I want to show people that even if people, even if different kinds of people say, no, you can't make music or no, you're not good at that.

You can always do it.

And anything you put your mind to, you can succeed it.

So just basically I want to go and be famous and try to help people like do what they want for music and stuff.

>> Why not?

Why not man?

I mean, absolutely.

do your friends, do you think violin is cool?

>> Yes.

Very cool.

>> So why is it cool?

>> Well, because there's multiple reasons why it's cool.

But one of the main reasons is just learning it, learning how to play the violin might not be as fun, except for it is still fun because it's depending on if it's your first time taking the violin.

You're going to want to learn songs immediately.

You're not going to want to.

You're not even going to want to wait for anything.

You'll just start playing randomly.

And I think that even then, like there's always something more.

I feel like because there's excitement.

But then like there's some other feeling that I can't really describe.

It's like excitement with sadness kind of, but because like, you're super excited, but then you're kind of sad that you didn't get to play a while ago.

>> What, what a really like truly an interesting.

Idea on how music can you affect you emotionally?

That that is really, really cool.

Patty, before we go here, I know you're proud of hearing stories like this and you deserve to be anything you and Hannah want to share about music in our schools month, by the way, that that we haven't hit here.

>> I would like to also, while I'm here, acknowledge my co-director because I'm here.

She's back at school teaching third graders right now while I'm here.

So I want to make sure Miss Hanna Garfield gets acknowledged as a co-director in this program.

I guess I want to just say how important it is and how important this this program Strings for Success.

It owes its aliveness to the community and that why it works.

People will say, well, there's lots of music in schools.

Why is this one special?

And I think it's really special because of the partnership, because of the partnership between the center for Youth and School, number 19, we're able to provide many more resources.

So instead of having one instrumental music teacher, we have five.

So instead of kids getting a group lesson once a week, kids get private lessons in addition to their group rehearsals.

We have lots of resources in terms of instruments.

So kids have instruments at school and at home so they don't have to carry them back and forth.

We're able to go on incredible field trips.

Last year, we traveled to Connecticut to perform at the National Association for Music Educators, Northeastern Conference.

So we got to get on a coach bus, drive to Connecticut, stay in a hotel, go to a trampoline park, do all these wonderful things, but perform for our colleagues from all over the northeastern seaboard.

So I think that that speaks to something that we're not really good at these days in terms of working with community.

So this is a good representation of what a community can do together.

>> I know the team from the center for youth is very proud of this partnership.

We've heard from them.

I know they're proud of Tabi'un and so many other students.

Thanks for sharing this story with us, with The Route and with us.

Thanks for coming on Connections here.

It's great to see you.

>> Thank you so much.

>> And Hannah, where are we going to hear you next?

>> Well, I'm playing out all over town.

I'm on the air from 2 to 6 p.m.

Monday through Friday.

And yeah, just like tavian.

I am practicing and working on my instruments every day.

>> It's great.

I love having you in studio talking music and the interviews that Hannah does are so good on where online where.

>> Yes, you can go to The Route.org.

You can see my interview with Patty Yarmel as well as our partnership with Strings for Success and all the resources there to get in contact with them.

>> Thanks guys.

Good luck.

Tavian.

Thanks, Jason.

Thanks for being here.

Have a great weekend everybody.

Talk to you next week.

>> This program is a production of WXXI Public Radio.

The views expressed do not necessarily represent those of this station.

Its staff, management or underwriters.

The broadcast is meant for the private use of our audience.

Any rebroadcast or use in another medium without expressed written consent of WXXI is strictly prohibited.

Connections with Evan Dawson is available as a podcast.

Just click on the Connections link at wxxinews.org.