Laura: HI TERRANCE.

WHAT WAS THAT LIKE COMING FROM NORTHERN NEW MEXICO WINTER AND FLYING INTO AUSTRALIA SUMMER WITH FIRES?

Dep.

Gallegos: A LITTLE BIT OF A SHOCK TO THE SYSTEM.

THE TRAVEL IS HARD.

IT IS A 14-HOUR FLIGHT AND THERE IS QUITE A BIT OF JET LAG ASSOCIATED WITH THAT AND YOU'RE COMING FROM WEARING COATS AND HATS AND GLOVES TO MAYBE WEARING SHORTS ON YOUR DAY OFF.

Laura: WHAT IS THE LANDSCAPE LIKE?

WHAT WERE THE FIRES LIKE THAT YOU WERE WORKING ON?

Dep.

Gallegos: PRIMARILY WE WERE ON THE COASTAL AREA OF NEW SOUTH WHALES.

A LOT OF EUCALYPTUS AND TRANSITIONS INTO LIKE WHAT THEY CALL A COASTAL HEATH.

BUT, PRETTY LARGE FIRES.

THE STATE OF NEW SOUTH WHALES IS ABOUT THE SIZE OF TEXAS, AND THE ENTIRE COAST WAS IMPACTED BY FIRES.

SO, IF YOU THINK ABOUT THE STATE OF TEXAS AND JUST IMAGINE ONE WHOLE SIDE OF IT ON FIRE, THAT IS KIND OF WHAT IT WAS LIKE.

Laura: IS THAT LIKE ANYTHING THAT YOU HAD EVER SEEN BEFORE IN YOUR CAREER?

Dep.

Gallegos: THE SCALE WASN'T SOMETHING THAT REALLY TOOK ME ABACK REALLY.

WE GET LARGE WILDFIRES IN THE SOUTHWEST AND IN THE U.S., AS YOU KNOW.

AND I HAVE BEEN ON SOME FIRES IN ALASKA THAT ARE VERY LARGE AND BRITISH COLUMBIA AS WELL.

THE SCALE DIDN'T REALLY SURPRISE ME.

I WOULD SAY THE WAY THE EUCALYPTUS BURNS, IT IS VERY INTENSE.

PROBABLY SOMETHING SIMILAR TO WHAT YOU WOULD SEE IN MAYBE FLORIDA BECAUSE THEY HAVE A LOT OF EUCALYPTUS WHICH HAS A LOT OF OILS IN IT AND STUFF LIKE THAT SO IT MAKES IT A LOT MORE EXPLOSIVE.

AS FAR AS THE SCALE, IT WASN'T SOMETHING THAT REALLY SHOCKED ME.

Laura: WATCHING FROM HERE, WATCHING THE NEWS OF WHAT WAS HAPPENING, IT SEEMED REALLY DIFFERENT.

I MEAN, I RECOGNIZE THAT AUSTRALIA HAS THESE ANNUAL BUSH FIRES AND THESE WERE WORSE THAN OTHERS BUT IT SEEMED SO BIG AND SO OVERWHELMING AND REALLY QUITE SCARY.

Dep.

Gallegos: IT WAS UNPRECEDENTED FOR THEM AND YOU ARE CORRECT, THEY DO DEAL WITH FIRES EVERY YEAR, BUT THIS YEAR WAS UNPRECEDENTED AND THE FOLKS AT NEW SOUTH WHALES SAID THAT MANY TIMES.

SO, WHEN YOU HAVE THAT MUCH FIRE IN THE LANDSCAPE, YOU KNOW, AND YOU HAVE RESOURCE DRAW, YOU KNOW, HENCE THE NEED TO BRING IN SOME AMERICANS AND CANADIANS AND WE ACTUALLY WORKED WITH QUITE A FEW CANADIANS DOWN THERE ALSO.

JUST TO KIND OF BRIDGE THAT GAP, GIVING THEM SOME HELP.

Laura: WHAT WAS HAPPENINGS OR WHAT IS HAPPENING THAT THESE UNPRECEDENTED FIRES ARE HAPPENING?

Dep.

Gallegos: I THINK FOR THEM IT WAS KIND OF A COMBINATION OF DROUGHT.

THEY HAD A BAD WINTER DROUGHT AND THEN IT JUST PROCEEDED RIGHT INTO FIRE SEASON AND DIDN'T GET MUCH RELIEF.

THEY WERE FIGHTING SOME PRETTY LONG-TERM DROUGHT IN THERE COMBINED WITH THE EXPLOSIVENESS OF THE FIELDS AND HOW QUICKLY A FIRE CAN MOVE IN THAT COUNTRY IS KIND OF THE BIG ISSUES THEY WERE DEALING WITH THERE.

Laura: ONE OF THE THINGS WHEN I WAS READING UP ON KIND OF THE FIRES AS THEY ARE STARTING TO DIE DOWN, THAT THERE WERE, I MEAN, LIKE 5,000 BUILDINGS DESTROYED AND THEY ESTIMATE A BILLION ANIMALS DIED IN THESE FIRES.

I WAS WONDERING IF YOU COULD TALK A BIT MORE ABOUT WHAT YOU SAW AND KIND OF WHAT THAT WAS LIKE TO BE THERE.

Dep.

Gallegos: YEAH, SO AS YOU DROVE DOWN THROUGH THE COAST FROM SYDNEY DOWN TO WHERE ALL THE FIRES WERE IMPACTING, THERE IS A LOT OF SMALL COASTAL TOWNS THERE HEAVILY RELIANT ON THE TOURISM AND STUFF LIKE THAT.

BEAUTIFUL AREAS AND THE FIRES WERE SO INTENSE THAT THEY WERE COMING OFF THE KIND OF THE UPPER ELEVATION AND MOVING AT A PRETTY FAST RATE KIND OF DOWNHILL TOWARDS THE COAST.

WITH THE WINDS BEHIND THEM.

THERE WAS A LOT OF THOSE SMALL COMMUNITIES THAT GOT IMPACTED AND REALLY WHAT IMPACTED A LOT OF THE STRUCTURES THERE WASN'T JUST A MASSIVE FIRE FRONT, PER SE, BUT THE SPOTTING THERE IS SOMETHING THAT I HAVE NEVER REALLY SEEN BEFORE.

THERE IS STUFF COMING OUT OF THE AIR THAT IS TWO, THREE FEET LONG AND ON FIRE AND THEY WERE SAYING UP TO FIVE, SIX KILOMETERS OF SPOTTING.

THAT IS WHAT IMPACTED A LOT OF STRUCTURES.

THEY JUST COULDN'T KEEP UP WITH THE AMOUNT OF SPOTS THAT WERE OCCURRING AROUND PEOPLES' PROPERTY AND STUFF LIKE THAT.

Laura: WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT UNPRECEDENTED FIRE, YOU KNOW, HERE IN NEW MEXICO IT IS HARD NOT TO THINK OF THE LOS CONCHAS AND WE DID A SHOW A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO WHERE WE WENT BACK TO THE BURN SCAR.

DID YOU WORK ON THAT FIRE?

Dep.

Gallegos: I DID.

I WAS ACTUALLY THE ASSISTANT FIRE MANAGEMENT OFFICER OUT OF ESPANOLA SO AT THAT TIME IT IMPACTED OUR DISTRICT AS WELL.

STARTED ON THE JEMEZ AND MOVED THROUGH QUITE A BIT OF OUR DISTRICT.

Laura: WE TALKED TO A NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO TALKED ABOUT WHAT SURPRISED THEM ABOUT THAT FIRE.

WHAT SURPRISED YOU?

Dep.

Gallegos: HOW BIG IT GOT SO QUICKLY.

I THINK IT MADE A 47,000 ACRE RUN IN ABOUT 12 HOURS.

SO, THAT IS BIG FIRE AND THAT IS QUICK.

THAT IS MOVING PRETTY QUICK AND AT THAT POINT IT IS COLUMN AND COLLAPSE AND CREATING ITS OWN WEATHER.

ONCE YOU GET THAT OCCURRING, IT IS GOING TO GET BIG ON YOU AND IT IS GOING TO GET BIG FAST AND AT THAT POINT YOU ARE JUST KIND OF TRYING TO PROTECT LIFE AND PROPERTY REALLY.

Laura: CAN YOU DESCRIBE THAT COLUMN COLLAPSE AND HOW THAT -- LOTS OF US, EVEN FROM ALBUQUERQUE, COULD SEE THAT CLOUD THAT DAY IN JUNE.

WHAT IS HAPPENING THERE?

Dep.

Gallegos: IT IS BUILDING SO MUCH CONVECTIVE HEAT AND PUTTING SO MUCH ASH AND HEAT IN THE AIR, IT IS BUILDING ITS OWN THUNDER CELL.

SO, YOU KNOW, IN A THUNDER CELL WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT RAIN AND THUNDER CELL, IT BUILDS AND BUILDS AND THEN IT DUMPS RAIN.

AN WHEN IT DUMPS RAIN YOU GET A LOT OF OUT FLOW WINDS.

SO THAT IS WHAT A BIG CONVECTIVE COLUMN CAN DO, BASICALLY LIKE A BIG TEE CELL, AND WHEN IT COLLAPSES IT SHOOTS WIND OUT 360 DEGREES AND SOMETIMES YOU GET A LITTLE BIT OF MOISTURE WITH IT TOO.

Laura: IN ADDITION TO LOS CONCHAS, WHAT ARE SOME OF THE SORT OF BIGGER UNPRECEDENTED GAME-CHANGING FIRES YOU HAVE WORKED ON HERE IN NEW MEXICO?

Dep.

Gallegos: I WOULD SAY LOS CONCHAS WAS THE LARGEST FIRE THAT I WAS ON.

I WASN'T ON THE ONE IN THE GILA, THE WHITEWATER BALDY, WHICH PASSED LOS CONCHAS FOR ACREAGE THE FOLLOWING YEAR, ACTUALLY.

WHEN I WAS ON THE HOT SHOT CREW, WE HAD A FIRE WHICH WAS LARGEST AT THE TIME.

IT SEEMS LIKE EVERY YEAR THERE IS A NEW LARGEST FIRE OCCURRING OUT THERE.

SO, THEY ARE ALL PRETTY SIMILAR.

WE KIND OF LIKE TO SAY FIRE IS FIRE IN THIS BUSINESS.

IT IS NOT -- IT DOESN'T REALLY MATTER WHAT THE FUEL TYPE IS ON FIRE OR WHERE YOU'RE AT, YOU'RE STILL DEALING WITH THE SAME COMPLEXITIES AND RISKS AND THINGS LIKE THAT, TRYING TO KEEP FOLKS SAFE.

Laura: SO, ARE THERE ANY SIMILARITIES, ESPECIALLY PEOPLE HAVE TALKED ABOUT THE IMPACT THAT CLIMATE CHANGE AND WARMING HAS ON FORESTS LIKE THE JEMEZ, EVEN HERE IN THE SANTA FE NATIONAL FOREST, AND THERE HAS BEEN TALK OF HOW WARMING AFFECTED THE FIRES IN AUSTRALIA.

WHAT KINDS OF LESSONS ARE YOU ALL HAVING TO LEARN AS YOU FACE THESE CHANGING CONDITIONS?

Dep.

Gallegos: YEAH.

IT BRINGS A LOT OF COMPLEXITIES AND IT BRINGS LONGER DURATION TO OUR FIRE SEASON.

IT SEEMS LIKE WE ARE HAVING LESS AND LESS OF A FIRE SEASON AND MORE OF A FIRE YEAR IT SEEMS LIKE ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

SO, YOU KNOW, IT ADDS A LOT OF COMPLEXITIES WHEN IT COMES TO RESOURCE MANAGEMENTS AND FOLKS ON THE GROUND AND FATIGUE AND ALL OF THAT STUFF.

IT KIND OF STARTS TO COMPOUND WHEN YOU'RE DEALING WITH INCIDENTS LONGER AS OPPOSED TO, OKAY, FIRE SEASON USED TO BE SIX MONTHS AND THEN FOLKS HAD A CHANCE TO REST OR WHATEVER.

BUT NOW IT SEEMS LIKE THOSE FIRE SEASONS ARE EXTENDING OUT LONGER AND LONGER.

Laura: WHAT ARE YOU ANTICIPATING OR PLANNING FOR THIS YEAR'S FIRE SEASON?

Dep.

Gallegos: WE GOT AN UPDATE FROM THE WEATHER SERVICE AND THEY ARE CALLING FOR DRYER, WARMER SPRING, SO, YOU KNOW, THAT COULD KIND OF KICK THINGS OFF EARLIER FOR US HERE IN THE SOUTHWEST, BUT IT ALWAYS DEPENDS ON KIND OF THAT SPRING MOISTURE, YOU KNOW.

BEING IN NEW MEXICO I AM SURE YOU KNOW THAT SOMETIMES WE GET THAT FREAK WINTER STORM AROUND EASTER OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, AND THAT KIND OF KNOCK THINGS BACK FOR A LITTLE WHILE.

IF WE STAY DRY THROUGH THE SUMMER AND GO RIGHT INTO FIRE SEASON, WE COULD HAVE THE POTENTIAL FOR SOME KIND OF LARGER PROBLEMATIC FIRES.

Laura: IN TERMS OF THE WINTER AND SPRING, ARE YOU ALL DOING CONTROLLED FIRES?

Dep.

Gallegos: YEAH.

DURING THE WINTERTIME WE TRY TO DO WHAT WE CALL PILE BURNING.

A LOT OF TIMES OUR FIELD SHOP WILL CREATE SOME PROJECTS WHERE THERE IS FUEL PILED AND WE TRY TO TAKE CARE OF THAT IN THE WINTERTIME, BEST TIME TO DO IT.

IT IS NOT ALWAYS THE BEST FOR THE SMOKE, BECAUSE VENTILATION CAN BE TOUGH TO GET A GOOD WINDOW FOR THAT, BUT, IT IS A GOOD TIME TO TAKE CARE OF IT BECAUSE OF THE SNOW KEEPING IT IN CHECK.

Laura: WHEN THERE IS A BIG WILDFIRE AND LOTS OF FIREFIGHTERS COME INTO A COMMUNITY, WE ARE ALL SUPER GRATEFUL AND WE GET LIKE REALLY SUPPORTIVE AND, YOU KNOW, YOU SEE THE SIGNS ALONG THE ROAD AND PEOPLE WANT TO DONATE FOOD BUT DURING, LIKE, PRESCRIBED FIRE SEASON IT SEEMS LIKE WE ARE NOT ALWAYS THAT WELCOMING.

I WAS WONDERING IF YOU COULD TALK ABOUT WHAT WE NEED TO BE DOING TO SUPPORTING EFFORTS AND KIND OF WHETHER THAT IS ACCEPTING SMOKE OR THINKING ABOUT HOW TO BETTER PROTECT OTHER COMMUNITIES BEFORE THERE IS A FIRE.

CAN YOU TALK ABOUT THOSE?

Dep.

Gallegos: I THINK SMOKE IS A BIG THING AND I THINK THAT IS WHAT KIND OF WEARS PEOPLES' SUPPORT DOWN FOR A PRESCRIBED FIRE.

BUT I THINK, YOU KNOW, IT IS REALLY IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND, THERE IS SMOKE IMPACTS AND MAYBE THEY ARE SHORT DURATION BUT YOU COULD GET A WILDFIRE THAT LASTS FOR WEEKS.

THE CITY OF ALBUQUERQUE WAS INUNDATED FOR TWO WEEKS WHERE THE AIR QUALITY GOT BAD.

IT IS A TRADEOFF AND I THINK AS FAR AS THE COMMUNITY'S SUPPORT, I THINK, IT IS BEING THAT VOICE AND SAYING, YEAH, WE WANT THIS TO HAPPEN BECAUSE I THINK THERE IS A VAST MAJORITY OF THE PUBLIC OUT THERE THAT ARE REALLY SUPPORTIVE OF THE THINGS THAT WE DO, THE PRESCRIBED FIRE MANAGING WILDFIRE FOR RESOURCE OBJECTIVES, BUT THEY ARE NOT ALWAYS THE MOST BOISTEROUS.

SO, I THINK JUST TALKING WITH NEIGHBORS AND SAYING THAT IS GOOD THING, ACTUALLY, WHAT THEY ARE DOING.

Laura: TERRANCE, THANK YOU SO MUCH.

Dep.

Gallegos: THANK YOU, APPRECIATE IT.

Laura: THANKS.