(dramatic music) - Ohio lawmakers introduced House Bill 616, which draws from a Florida Bill dubbed, don't say gay by its opponents and from a previously proposed bill banning the teaching of so-called divisive concepts centering mainly on race.

Early primary voting begins in Ohio, but a lot is still unsettled.

State legislative districts aren't on the ballot and will have to be decided in yet another primary.

And attention shoppers, Giant Eagle plans to bag single use plastic bags in its Cuyahoga County stores.

Ideas is next.

(dramatic music) Hello and welcome to Ideas, I'm Mike McIntyre.

Thanks for joining us.

Ohio followed Florida's lead this week introducing House Bill 616 dubbed don't say gay by its opponents.

The bill would prohibit schools from teaching about sexual orientation or gender identity to students in K through third grade.

The bill also bans teaching of divisive or inherently racist concepts.

The Ohio Chamber of Commerce says it's opposed because it'll hurt the state's chances of bringing workers and companies here.

Early voting began this week for the May 3 primary but not all racers are on the ballot.

The plan to rescue historic Shaker Square and Cleveland from receivership is moving forward.

And Attention shoppers, Giant Eagle says it will no longer have single use plastic bags in it's Cuyahoga County stores beginning April 22.

We'll talk about all those stories and the rest of the week's news on the reporters round table.

Joining me this week, Ideastream public media health reporter Anna Huntsman, from the Buckeye Flame, editor Ken Schneck, and from Columbus, Statehouse News Bureau Chief Karen Kasler.

Let's get ready to round table.

Two representatives in the Ohio House introduced a bill this week that brings together elements of a Florida bill that opponents described as don't say gay, as well as parts of a previously introduced bill banning the teaching of divisive concepts.

Karen, this bill, is it responding to something that's happening in classrooms now or is it a trend that's coming because of Florida's lead?

- Well, I just like to remind everyone, it is an election year, where you have the entire Ohio House and half of the Ohio Senate on the ballot.

I have to give huge props to Ken and the Buckeye Flame for really putting this out there, I think before any other reporters got a hold of it, because I think a lot of people were expecting something like this.

But I think the Buckeye Flame was the first to break this story.

And so I think, again, it's something that we were looking out for just because it had been passed in Florida, it's been proposed in other states, it goes along with the two other bills that are under consideration that both deal with the divisive concepts idea in school, the so-called divisive concepts idea, this one takes that and runs with it and goes into the sexual orientation and gender identity issue.

And it also really doesn't appear to solve a problem that exists.

So I'm not surprised to see this.

I don't know if it'll go anywhere, though.

The legislature is going on a Spring break, then they'll be done in June.

And they've got other things to deal with such as, oh I don't know, deciding on a second primary for their own offices.

So I'm not sure where this is gonna head.

- Ken, going back to this particular bill, the problem that's being solved, according to the proponents is that parents don't have control over what their young children particularly are being taught in the classroom.

They want to have more control, they believe this gives it to 'em.

What about that argument.

- Sure.

And we certainly have to talk about the sponsors and you mentioned them.

You have Representative Mike Loytec, who spent a good chunk of last year trying to rename Mosquito Lake in his district as Donald Trump Lake, so that's where he lies.

And Jean Schmidt who, if people have not seen the video of her just trying to run through the State House just because people were asking her questions, ironically, she's also a track and field coach, that's not a joke, she really is.

So she was running through there, you know.

So in an interview, when she finally gave an interview and started answering questions, that is indeed what Jean Schmidt said.

Was that this isn't going to ban anything, this just gives parents that control.

But indeed, opponents of 616 would say that no there are all types of assignments and conversations and activities that now won't be allowed under this concept of divisive and I don't think air quotes work too well on the radio.

But as you said earlier, that word is not defined in any conceivable way.

It's going to be defined by the Ohio Board of Education, which is some of the people on there have worked in education before and local school boards, which is a lot of realtors.

(Mike chuckles) It's a lot of realtors, we've started looking it up.

- The state teachers unions are pushing back on this as well.

One criticism is a bill like this does not teach children to think critically.

So that's what you're getting into.

It's not just an opinion that someone like you might hold, its the teachers themselves that are saying this is the problem.

- Right.

And it seems so odd, right?

To talk about open discourse when we're talking about kindergartners.

But we are, we're not teaching to the test when we're talking about first, second and third grade, we're exploring the limits of thinking and how children express themselves.

And I'm going to assume that your offspring, Mike, had to do some sort of family tree at one point.

And that's the type of assignment where, well, that could now be considered divisive, or talking about what you did on your Spring break or on your family vacation.

And so there's going to be these really intentional and explicit limits, depending on the school district that will make teachers' jobs almost impossible.

And teachers aren't allowed to now have professional development in this area.

The one thing that that I have to correct myself on and we're really, we're in some ways pushing back on ourselves, and I wrote an op ed about it yesterday is that it's very eye catching and convenient to call this #don'tsaygay, but this is a bill that starts with and ends with limits on talking about race.

- Speaking of the don't say gay part of it, that's the language that's attached to the Florida law.

This, as has been described to me is not as severe as the Florida law as it relates to that.

There's some elements of it, but it doesn't quite go as far?

- I don't even know how people can parse it out because this is a combo platter law where we said, sure, maybe these elements are a little soften from Florida, which I don't really think that they are but we put it all together with a curriculum ban on talking about race in the curriculum.

And you mentioned intersectionality, it's not just about the 1619 project, it's not just about critical race theory, which is not being taught in high schools or in schools in Ohio, but apparently that's a side note.

It's also about, we can't have conversations that people hold multiple identities, that it might be more difficult for you to be a Black trans high schooler than it might be to be a White male high schooler, right?

And so it's just all over the place these bands.

And again, it's that last bullet that you got to zero in on for both the parts that deal with sexual orientation and the parts that deal with race and other things that might be deemed divisive.

- By the State Board of Education.

- Both.

It's by the State Board of Education, but it's also by the local school board.

And when we look at some of these local school boards, I don't know, Hudson, we know that they're making some decisions that are problematic and don't reflect the community.

- So I have a question in this.

It kind of goes back to the beginning of is this something that people well have been calling for and this is going on or is this following along with other states?

But I noticed that it says it restricts talking about gender identity in kindergarten through third grade and then restricts it a little bit after that.

Do we know if things like that are even being taught at that level?

Or is it, you even mentioned, if you're making a family tree, you might run into having to talk about it.

But I guess I'm wondering like, are you aware, Ken, is is that kind of stuff already being taught?

- No.

And so the popular argument that's coming up over and over again is people saying, "I can't believe that you're advocating for teaching sex "to kindergartners," that is literally not happening anywhere.

And if it is, that's problematic but also it's not problematic, 'cause it's not happening anywhere.

So I just pivot right back to what Karen said earlier, it's an election year in this tracks.

- This is probably a dumb question.

But if you're not allowed to talk about gender identity, and you tell the boys to go on one side of the room and the girls to go on the other, haven't you just talked about gender identity?

- Well, let's also keep in mind, see this is kind of the hilarious part of there are a bunch of people and I mean a lot of people who are just doing Ctrl + F and searching for the word gay in the bill.

Correct.

The word gay is nowhere in the bill, LGBTQ+ is nowhere in the bill.

The bill actually refers to sexual orientation and gender identity.

So indeed, if you want to extrapolate out further, then there shouldn't be any children's books that have any parents whatsoever because you're talking about sexual orientation.

When in fact, we know that the coded language here is indeed referring to LGBTQ.

It's made it really difficult, as we talked about often, I'm a professor of education at Baldwin Wallace University and one of the courses that I was asked to take on this Fall is the required diversity course for all education majors teaching multicultural techniques and studying, I don't remember what it's called, which is also why I shouldn't teach it.

But I also shouldn't teach it 'cause I have no idea how you would even approach these topics.

Now, I often come in and talk to the early childhood teachers to be about, "Hey, make sure you have like one of the 30 children's books "that maybe has same sex parents."

But I don't feel like I can advocate for that anymore because that can get these teachers in trouble.

And in fact, teachers are really nervous about the repercussions of something like this.

- Teachers are nervous and employers, perhaps Karen are nervous as well.

The Ohio Chamber of Commerce, I mentioned, has a lot of concerns about this saying it sends the wrong message about the state.

- Yeah and I spoke to the Ohio Business Roundtable and other influential business group as well as the National Federation of Independent Business, Ohio, they say that they have not taken a position on House Bill 616 yet.

But the Chamber of Commerce getting involved in that is kind of a big deal.

I mean, the Chamber of Commerce has come out in support of the Ohio Fairness Act, which would ban discrimination based on sexual orientation, gender identity.

So this tracks right in line with what they're doing.

They're the most influential business group in the state, the largest business group in the state.

So it stands to reason that they would have a pretty big voice here.

- So people have to remember that the Chamber of Commerce in Ohio is being led right now by Steve Stivers, who is a Republican who championed a lot of not great legislation.

So for them to come out and say this, we're seeing a lot of the key word right now is intel.

All right, well, what are you going to do intel?

You are coming to Ohio and bringing what?

Billions of dollars and quite a few jobs, is this really where you want to do business?

Now on the one hand, it's hard for me to want to argue against all of these jobs and money coming into Ohio, but on the other hand, it seems that the only response that Republicans respond to is the economic one that this would do economic damage to the state.

So it's not surprising that you would see the Chamber of Commerce here in Ohio getting involved.

- One of the other things I wanted to mention was the two sponsors of this bill, Representatives Mike Loychik and Jean Schmidt.

You know, Jean Schmidt, Ken, was talking about got chased down the hall by reporters, it's really unusual for lawmakers to not want to talk about the bills that they've proposed.

I mean, they put these bills together because they believe in these things.

And to not be able to stand there and take questions about them is a bit unusual.

And I will note that Loychik and Schmidt, while are ignoring the Ohio State House Media, were on Fox and Friends yesterday.

So they were answering questions in a more I guess, friendly environment rather than taking more pointed questions from the Ohio press corps.

- [Ken] interesting.

- And it's not just the business community.

I know that a couple, I think it was last year, Dwayne pitched the state as a progressive state that he wanted millennials to feel like they can move to, and we want to attract more younger people.

And I just have to wonder the effect that this is going to have on that goal.

Even if it doesn't move forward, the Florida law got so much national attention that it's got to be the forefront of people's minds when you hear that it's going on in Ohio too.

- I will go one step further and guarantee that there is someone who now is not going to move to this state because of this regardless of whether it passes.

This is just the first week of attention on this bill.

(dramatic music) - Early voting began this week for the May 3 primary but not for all of the racers because new legislative district maps remain held up by legal challenges.

Karen due to all of the delays, ballots are not even ready in Cuyahoga County where voters are going to have to use temporary ballots.

- Well, I guess that's unclear on why those ballots aren't ready.

And apparently, the delay was only in a couple of days.

And early voting during the primary is really slow anyway, so it's thought to affect only a very, very small group of voters.

But still, it affects that small group of voters.

So, the whole issue of starting early voting when there is a key set of racers that is not on the ballot is really a challenge here.

And the question now, of course, is when are voters going to be able to decide Ohio House and Senate races?

And also state party committee races, but that's a little bit further down the ballot, I think a lot of people are concerned about the legislative races.

So far, House Speaker Bob Kopp and Senate president Matt Hoffman, who were both on the Ohio Redistricting Commission, whose staffs drew those maps that were thrown out by the Ohio Supreme Court, both of them have said they are not gonna set a date for the legislative races until after a Federal Court weighs in on April 20.

Now, Secretary of State Frank Rose, also a member of that commission that drew those maps and he has voted for all those maps that have been rejected, he says, second primary has to happen by August 2, to not interfere with the November election.

So all of this is happening as people are starting to vote.

And all they're seeing right now are the statewide offices, congressional offices, Ohio Supreme Court and of course, local racers.

And it's a bad thing that primaries turnout so few voters, but in this case, it's almost a relief, I think, for boards of elections officials who are trying to put together all of these as it's been just constantly changing and there's been so much uncertainty.

- And we're still up in the air with all of the maps.

So the state, the Senate and House race maps are before the Supreme Court.

The congressional maps, which you are going to be voting on congressional races, but those maps aren't approved yet either, although there's some, by the time there's a ruling on that, it'll be passed through any primary.

- Yeah, the maps that are used to come up with a congressional races this time around are maps that voter advocacy groups feel are gerrymandered and rigged, but they can't challenge them really in terms of the timeline.

So the League of Women Voters and the ACLU have decided they're not going to continue to try to challenge them and instead focus on challenging them in the next election cycle in 2024.

And the other question is, so the idea of a second primary, whenever it's set, somebody's gonna have to pay for that, estimated $20 million, potentially.

Because of all this, there was a proposal this week from Representative Ron Ferguson from Steubenville, who said that that should be taken out of the Ohio Supreme Court's budget, because it's the court that has delayed all this because they haven't prioritized the maps, and then push those cases forward more quickly, which is an interesting argument.

And then you've got senate president Matt Hoffman saying, because the census data delayed all of this, then maybe we can use COVID funds to pay for this primary.

So the actual coming up with the dollars to put this together is is starting to become an issue too.

- And it seems tough enough to get people to vote in one primary.

And then in a general election later, our turnout is dismal, often in primaries, and now we're talking about a second primary?

I mean, just think about the confusion for people that vote all the time and trying to figure out too, but how about trying to attract new voters, young voters, those types of things?

- Yeah, there's a lot of messaging that needs to be sent out.

I mean, I even know myself.

I have to text my friends and people close to me to remind them to change their voter registration if they've recently moved.

So it's kind of like you're already messaging people about this, because it's a month in advance that you have to do that.

And so, you know, there's this, I haven't seen much outreach about this, either.

I don't know that if I went up to many of my friends or texted them to say, "Hey, did you know there's actually going to be "two primaries?"

I don't know how many would know that.

And so then it's, for people who are trying to be informed, then that's a whole other time that they have to go through and do the research and learn about all the candidates and things like that.

- Ken one of the things, Karen mentioned a number of these appointed or elected officials, some lawmakers, some in other branches, who are part of the redistricting commission.

There still is a question about whether they should be held in contempt.

And the Supreme Court is still looking at that.

- Yeah.

Sorry, I love that story.

Because it's just fascinating to see where that goes.

But I have to say that, first can we figure out the maps?

And I'm kind of curious.

One of the reasons I love doing this show is 'cause I hear from people like you and Karen who have lived here all your lives.

And is this something that's happened before?

Is this a new Ohio?

- No (giggles).

- No, it's not happened before.

- [Mike] Karen is saying no, I'm shaking my head.

- No, no, I mean, the last time in 2011, when these were redrawn, there was a lawsuit and that was eventually settled.

But that was in December, before the election.

I mean, we are now in the election, and we still don't have these maps.

So it's really an extraordinary case and Ohio is an outlier around the country, because most states have settled their redistricting questions, because everybody had to do this after the 2020 census.

- But to answer the question, the conversation is about holding these people in contempt, that's such a distraction right now, I would think.

Let's figure out the maps and when we're voting.

(dramatic music) - Giant Eagle stores in Cuyahoga County, will stop using single use plastic bags on April 22, which is also Earth Day.

Cuyahoga County's plastic bag ban quietly went into effect this year, though it has not been enforced.

The county has said it's going to look at enforcing it later this year.

So maybe this is, Ken, sort of lining up to be in compliance with Cuyahoga County at some point when it does start to enforce the bag ban.

- Yeah, the county really passed this in July of 2020.

But as you said, the pandemic kept pushing it back and back.

So these pauses due to the pandemic are over.

I'm kind of hoping it's not a coincidence that it was on Earth Day, that would be a nice campaign.

So let's say that they're doing this because of Earth Day.

But they have made allowances for individuals, particularly individuals who are paying for groceries with government funded food purchase assistant programs.

There's gonna be paper bags, right?

But people will be charged 10 cents per paper bag, except if you are indeed on a government assistance program and then you will be comped the bags.

- And I think Giant Eagle was giving away the reusable bags to start.

There's some that they're gonna do and then they will be sold.

- Right.

And I believe that the county-wide ban, I believe communities had the opportunity to opt out.

So I think that's also why it kind of quietly went into effect.

But obviously even if your community opted out, if you go to Giant Eagle, you still will have to eventually start bringing your bags or paying for paper bags.

- And giant eagle says it's going to expand the policy to more areas.

- Right, right.

So it's a Pittsburgh-based chain.

It's starting here in Cuyahoga County.

So other county listeners, heads up they might be coming your way soon.

(dramatic music) - Cleveland has begun expunging low level marijuana offense records for more than 4000 people, that includes 455 people who were charged after Cleveland City Council decriminalized minor misdemeanor marijuana offenses in 2020.

Leads to a question, how possibly could people have been charged with and sentenced for a crime that didn't exist at the time?

- Yeah, you're actually asking that?

- I'm asking you.

- Yeah, 'cause we do things like that and I think that their criminal justice system might need some reform.

That's all I got for that one.

- So here is a Mayor Justin Bibb, talking on Wednesday about the need for these expungements.

- [Justin] We wanted to show the residents of Cleveland, that we are truly serious about holistic criminal justice reform in the city and also make sure that we give them that second chance that they deserve.

- This was something that the mayor elect, or at the time that the mayoral candidate, talked about on the campaign trail.

Is this delivering Ken?

- Oh, absolutely.

That he promised criminal justice reform and this is a huge step forward.

We're we're talking about 4077 cases that date back to 2017 for possession of 20 grams or less under the city's ordinance, so that's a lot of cases.

- And I think for the individuals that this affects, this could really help with their job searches.

I mean, we think about when you're trying to get so many things in your life, and you might be held back and there are so many barriers to that, I think this is a win for them as well.

- And you think, Karen, about the fact that there are so many states that have legalized recreational marijuana.

Ohio has medical marijuana now, but there's been a lot of push for recreational marijuana to the point where these wouldn't be criminal acts at all, whether you're in Cleveland or anywhere else in Ohio.

- Well, but the question is how to get those passed.

I mean, you've got two bills in the State House, one sponsored by Democrats, one sponsored by Republicans that would legalize marijuana.

There's also a potential ballot issue that they're still working on.

Getting that passed, though is the issue and certainly getting it passed, the Legislature, Senate President Matt Hoffman has said he really doesn't have an interest in looking at this so that could be a challenge.

(dramatic music) - The Cleveland Guardians took to field for the first time, Thursday as the 2022 Major League Baseball season finally got underway.

The start of the season had to be pushed back due to a labor dispute and a victory celebration had to be pushed back due to a late inning loss.

♪ We are Clevelands ♪ ♪ Guardians ♪ ♪ From the East to the West I'll take you with me ♪ ♪ Guardians ♪ Sing it with me, Ken.

- Well, I have to go.

- I'm I the only one who doesn't hate it?

It's cheesy.

- No, I don't hate it.

- It's definitely cheesy.

I just feel like I saw on social media a lot of chatter about it not being great.

- That's the new Guardians theme song.

The Cleveland Guardians took to field for the first time yesterday as 2022 Major League Baseball season finally got underway, the start of the season was pushed back a little bit due to the labor dispute.

Guardians took an early lead on a double by Jose Ramirez who recently was signed to a long term contract worth 150 million bucks just slightly more than I'm making here at Ideastream.

He's through 2028, by the way, and the Royals, though prevailed in their home stadium three to one.

By the way, that Ramirez deal is the biggest in team history.

Karen, the excitement was not the game yesterday, but earlier this week, the fact that they took their third baseman, their all star and they said, "Okay, we're gonna give you the biggest contract "we've ever given anyone."

A lot of people have been on the Dolans for not spending money.

Did this make you happy?

- Well, sure.

Now, it's interesting.

I think it's like half the team's payroll, isn't it?

I mean, it's a lot of money.

But keeping a big name is a big deal.

I mean, thats some of the criticism that's been leveled against the Guardians is they didn't do anything in the off season, they didn't get any high profile players, they didn't trade for anybody that was really spectacular.

And in fact, actually, on the first day, on opening day, they actually traded away Bradley Zimmer, who you could argue has not done so well, but you know, there was this issue of getting rid of high profile players or not bringing in high profile players, having Jose around for a while is a good thing.

- So it's the first game, Ken, of the Cleveland Guardians.

- Yaay.

- Let's have your analysis, Ken.

- I would like to talk about the shortstop.

Now again (panelists laughing).

That's a huge deal, it's a huge deal.

And whereas opening day has been marked by, not marred by, marked by such visible protests, unnecessary protests against our former team name, oh, okay, so I just had a moment of getting worried about counter protests now coming this year.

And I have grave concerns about that.

And we'll be talking about that in class as well.

But I am nervous that there are going to be individuals who show up in red face.

- I will be at opening day next Friday, of course.

And I'm wondering about that as well.

I mean, the fact that it's a night game, I don't know if that deters anybody, but it's still a home opener.

And so I wonder what we're gonna see, I wonder how the fans are gonna react.

- I don't think you're allowed to wear the Indians gear, if that's what you want to wear and shorts and those types of things, I don't think that they're allowing people to wear headdress and those types of things.

I think that's not permitted in the stadium, but I could be wrong.

- I think I heard that too.

- Okay, great.

- But you're saying like outside the city protesting.

- [Karen] Yeah, outside.

- And I think Karen just asked me to go to the game with her so I will be reporting at the game with Karen.

(Karen laughs) - Yeah.

- [Anna] There's still some (indistinct), I'm pretty sure.

- Yeah, too bad Karen's son.

I guess she's gonna be holed up.

- That stick 'cause I rely on her son's sports ball analysis, yeah.

- The Guardians do play on the 15th against the San Francisco Giants in the home opener.

And by the way that happens to be for those who celebrate, it's Lent, it's Good Friday.

And it's a Friday and Lent.

So those who are observant Catholics, sometimes and I've noticed to happen before, on opening day, you get the bishop to say go ahead and have a hot dog.

Not doing it this year.

So Karen, you're gonna have to try one of the many other, if you're going to be observant, one of the many other... - I don't eat hot dogs anyway.

So I'm not, there's a ton of options at Progressive Field, so I'll be sampling something else.

- Monday on the Sound of Ideas on 89.7 WKSU, we'll bring you the United Way of Greater Cleveland Community conversation on how legislation aimed at limiting teaching on race and other divisive concepts has impact in the classroom and beyond.

Our Rick Jackson moderates.

I'm Mike McIntyre, thank you so much for watching, and stay safe.

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