[ THEME MUSIC ] ON THIS WEEK'S EDITION OF "NEW YORK NOW," WE STILL DON'T HAVE A STATE BUDGET A WEEK AFTER THE DEADLINE.

PLUS, SHOULD PEOPLE IN STATE PRISON BE PAID HIGHER WAGES?

WE HAVE THERE STORY.

I'M DAN CLARK AND THIS IS "NEW YORK NOW."

[ THEME MUSIC ] WELCOME TO THIS WEEK'S EDITION OF "NEW YORK NOW."

I'M DAN CLARK.

WE ARE NOW ONE WEEK PAST NEW YORK'S DEADLINE FOR A STATE BUDGET, AND SO FAR, WE STILL DON'T HAVE A SPENDING PLAN FOR THE NEXT 12 MONTHS AND FRANKLY, WE DON'T REALLY KNOW WHEN WE WILL.

AFTER CRUISING PAST THE INITIAL DEADLINE LAST WEEK, LAWMAKERS AND GOVERNOR HOCHUL APPROVED A BUDGET EXTENDER ON MONDAY AND THAT EXPIRES THIS COMING MONDAY, APRIL 10TH.

AS FAR AS WE KNOW, PROGRESS HAS BEEN SLOW.

IN THE FIRST HALF OF THE WEEK, BUDGET NEGOTIATIONS WERE ALMOST EXCLUSIVELY ABOUT CHANGES TO THE STATE'S BAIL REFORM LAW.

ASSEMBLY SPEAKER CARL HEASTIE ON MONDAY.

I WOULD SAY BAIL IS NOW TAKING UP PRETTY MUCH ALL THE OXYGEN IN THE ROOM AND EVERYTHING ELSE IS SECOND.

I MEAN, CONVERSATIONS ARE STILL BEING HAD, BUT THAT'S-- I TELL YOU IT WAS BAIL AND HOUSING WAS 90%.

BAIL, ITSELF, NOW MAY BE 90%.

BUT BY THE MIDDLE OF THE WEEK THAT HAD CHANGED.

HASTY TOLD REPORTERS THAT OTHER ISSUES ARE NOW BEING DISCUSSED AS PART OF BUDGET TALKS, BUT GOVERNOR KATHIE HOCHUL TOLD REPORTERS THAT SHE'S NOT EXPECTING A BUDGET DEAL BY THE COMING DEADLINE ON MONDAY.

SO WE'RE EXPECTING ANOTHER EXTENDER THAT WE DON'T KNOW FOR HOW LONG.

THAT'S BECAUSE WE DON'T REALLY KNOW IF A DEAL IS CLOSE OR IF IT'S WEEKS AWAY.

SENATE REPUBLICAN LEADER ROB ORTT.

THIS IS, FOR ME, EIGHT YEARS THE FIRST TIME I CAN EVER REMEMBER GETTING TO THIS DATE WITH REALLY JUST ABSOLUTELY NO CLARITY ON A STATE BUDGET EVEN A FRAMEWORK, TABLE TARGETS, ANYTHING LIKE THAT.

AND WE'RE NOT EXPECTING TO LEARN MORE UNTIL MONDAY.

MORE ON THAT IN A FEW MINUTES WITH THIS WEEK'S PANEL BUT FIRST, SOME ENVIRONMENTAL NEWS AT THE CAPITOL THIS WEEK.

THE HOCHUL ADMINISTRATION IS PUSHING A CHANGE IN THE STATE'S ENERGY TRANSITION THAT THEY SAY WILL REDUCE COSTS FOR CONSUMERS OVER THE NEXT FEW DECADES, BUT ENVIRONMENTALISTS SAY IT WOULD DOWNPLAY THE IMPACT OF EMISSIONS FROM METHANE, THE MAIN COMPONENT OF NATURAL GAS.

IT ALL GOES BACK TO 2019 WHEN NEW YORK PASSED ITS LANDMARK CLIMATE LAW.

THAT LAW SET THE STATE'S AMBITIOUS CLIMATE TARGETS OVER THE NEXT THREE DECADES.

THOSE INCLUDE A 40% REDUCTION IN GREENHOUSE GAS EMISSIONS BY 2030 AND AN 85% REDUCTION BY 2050 AND TO GET THERE, THE LAW OUTLINED A WAY TO MEASURE CARBON EMISSIONS.

RIGHT NOW, EMISSIONS FROM METHANE WOULD BE MEASURED OVER 20 YEARS, BUT THE HOCHUL ADMINISTRATION, THROUGH NEW LEGISLATION, WANTS TO CHANGE THAT TO 100 YEARS, AND THAT'S A BIG CHANGE, BUT STATE DEC COMMISSIONER BASIL SEGGOS GOES SAY, WITHOUT IT, THE COST FOR CONSUMERS WILL BE HIGHER.

WHAT THAT TRANSLATES INTO IS UPWARDS OF 62 CENTS A GALLON OF GASOLINE INCREASE, AN 80% INCREASE IN HOME HEATING COSTS AND THAT'S OBVIOUSLY GAVE US CAUSE FOR CONCERN.

BEFORE WE EXPLAIN HOW IT WOULD SAVE CONSUMERS MONEY, I WANT TO BREAK DOWN THE SCIENCE OF IT AND WHY ENVIRONMENTALISTS ARE AGAINST IT.

METHANE IS A REALLY POTENT FOSSIL FUEL.

ACCORDING TO THE U.S. EPA IT'S 25 TIMES STRONGER THAN CO2, ANOTHER GREENHOUSE GAS.

BUT THE THING ABOUT METHANE IS THAT IT BREAKS DOWN IN THE AIR RELATIVELY FAST.

AFTER ABOUT 12 YEARS METHANE DISSIPATES AND LEAVES BEHIND CO2 AND WATER.

SO IF YOU LOOK AT THE CLIMATE IMPACT OF METHANE, OVER 20 YEARS, IT'S GOING TO LOOK REALLY STRONG BECAUSE A LOT OF IT WILL STILL BE IN THE ATMOSPHERE, BUT IF YOU MEASURE IT OVER 100 YEARS THE EMISSIONS FOR METHANE LOOK SMALLER BECAUSE MOST OF IT WILL HAVE BROKEN DOWN, AND THAT'S WHY ENVIRONMENTALISTS ARE AGAINST THE CHANGE.

ASSEMBLY MEMBER ANNA KELLES.

WHAT THIS BILL WILL DO IS IT WILL WATER DOWN OUR ESTIMATION OF METHANE.

METHANE IS IN THE ATMOSPHERE FOR A MAXIMUM OF 12 YEARS BUT THIS IS SAYING THAT WE WILL MEASURE IT ON A HUNDRED YEARS, WHICH MEANS THAT FOR 90 YEARS OF IT WHERE IT HAS ZERO IMPACT, IT WILL WATER DOWN THE TEN YEARS THAT IT HAS A TREMENDOUS IMPACT.

SO THAT'S THE SCIENCE SIDE OF IT.

NOW THE COST.

BASICALLY, WE KNOW THAT REDUCING EMISSIONS TO MEET THE STATE'S CLIMATE GOALS WILL BE EXPENSIVE ESPECIALLY FOR POWER PRODUCERS AND DISTRIBUTORS AND THOSE COMPANIES CAN PASS ON THOSE COSTS TO CONSUMERS.

SO AS THE STATE CHANGES HOW METHANE IS MEASURED AND THAT SHOWS EMISSIONS IS LOWER OVER A LONGER TIME, THOSE COMPANIES DON'T HAVE TO WORK AS HARD TO MEET THEIR EMISSIONS GOALS.

SO IN OTHER WORDS, GOOD FOR THE FOSSIL FUEL INDUSTRY BUT LESS GOOD FOR THE ENVIRONMENT, AND THE HOPE, THE STATE SAYS, IS THAT IT WOULD BE CHEAPER FOR CONSUMERS.

NYSERDA CEO DOREEN HARRIS.

SO WHEN YOU PUT THAT ALTOGETHER, IT MEANS THERE ARE SUBSTANTIAL COSTS THAT WILL BE BORNE BY NEW YORKERS THAT THEY OTHERWISE WOULDN'T HAVE TO PAY.

THAT'S A CENTRAL ASPECT OF WHY WE'RE ADVANCING THIS CHANGE SO THAT IT'S AFFORDABLE FOR NEW YORKERS TO REALIZE THE CLIMATE ACTS GOALS.

THEN THE HOCHUL ADMINISTRATION WALKED BACK THAT PROPOSAL SAYING IT'S STILL ON THE TABLE BUT THAT THEY WON'T PUSH FOR IT IN THE BUDGET.

LET'S TALK ABOUT THAT AND MORE WITH THIS WEEK'S PANEL.

JON CAMPBELL IS FROM GOTHAMIST AND WNYC AND ZACH WILLIAMS IS FROM THE "NEW YORK POST."

THANK YOU BOTH FOR BEING HERE.

THANK YOU.

THANK YOU.

JON, I WANT TO TURN TO YOU FIRST ABOUT THIS METHANE THING.

WE HAVE EXPLAINED THE SCIENCE SO WE DON'T HAVE TO REHASH THAT.

WE EXPLAINED THE COST SAVINGS.

I'M MORE INTERESTED IN KIND OF LIKE THE REALLY BIG PUSH FOR THIS AT THE START OF THE WEEK FROM HOCHUL ADMINISTRATION AND BY THE MIDDLE OF THE WEEK, THEY BACK OFF AND SAID, NEVER MIND.

YEAH.

ABSOLUTELY.

AND WHAT HAPPENED IN BETWEEN.

YOU SAW ENVIRONMENTAL GROUPS AND ENVIRONMENTAL ADVOCATES REALLY RISE UP AGAINST IT AND SAY IT WOULD BE A WAY OF ESSENTIALLY GUTTING THIS TOP-IN-THE-NATION CLIMATE LAW THAT THEY WERE SO PROUD OF JUST A COUPLE YEARS AGO.

IT WAS-- YOU SAW THE STRENGTH OF THE ENVIRONMENTAL MOVEMENT STAND UP.

THAT SAID, IT'S NOT DEAD, DEAD.

I MEAN, THE HOCHUL ADMINISTRATION SAYS, WELL, YOU KNOW, WE'RE NOT GOING TO PRIORITIZE IT IN THE BUDGET NEGOTIATIONS, BUT IT'S STILL GOING TO BE HANGING AROUND.

IT'S STILL GOING TO BE A STAND-ALONE BILL EVEN IF IT DOESN'T FIND ITS WAY IN HERE.

AND THERE WILL BE MORE DEBATE ABOUT THIS IN THE FUTURE.

I'M SO INTERESTED IN THE BEHIND-THE-SCENES PART OF THIS WHOLE THING THAT WE'RE PROBABLY NEVER GONNA FIND OUT WHERE ON MONDAY, IT WAS LIKE A VERY BIG PRIORITY AND THEN TWO DAYS LATER, THEY HAD TO JUST CLAW IT BACK BECAUSE OF, YOU KNOW, SOME VERY POWERFUL VOICES AT THE CAPITOL FROM THE ENVIRONMENTALISTS AND I KNOW THE GOVERNOR, IN PARTICULAR, WANTS CLIMATE TO BE PART OF HER LEGACY.

I CAN IMAGINE THAT IS A BIG DEAL.

ZACH, I SAW THIS AS KIND OF-- KIND OF PART OF A LARGER PATTERN FROM THIS ADMINISTRATION OF KIND OF TRYING TO DO SOMETHING AND THEN PEOPLE WOULD MIGHT BE CONSIDERED MORE PROGRESSIVE KIND OF STOPPING THAT BECAUSE THEY HAVE A GROWING POWER AT THE CAPITOL.

WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THAT?

WELL, WE'VE SEEN IN RECENT MONTHS THE GOVERNOR MAKE A SERIES OF KIND OF BAFFLING MOVES, YOU KNOW, NOMINATING JUDGE LASALLE TO BE THE CHIEF JUDGE OF THE COURT OF APPEALS AND NOW WITH THIS ENVIRONMENTAL PROPOSAL WHERE WE KIND OF PUT IT OUT THERE.

SHE COULDN'T POSSIBLY HAVE THOUGHT THAT IT WAS GOING TO GO OVER WELL, BUT SHE DID IT ANYWAYS ONLY TO BACKTRACK AFTER AT LEAST IN THIS CASE A PRETTY STUNNING DISPLAY OF PRESSURE FROM THE ENVIRONMENTAL MOVEMENT THAT I THINK MAKES AN INTERESTING COMPARISON WITH WHAT WE'VE SEEN ON BAIL REFORM, HERE, WE HAVE THE GOVERNOR ENRAGING THE LEFT ON MULTIPLE FRONTS BUT WHEREAS, SHE QUICKLY RETREATED ON THE ENVIRONMENTAL PROPOSAL ON RECALCULATING METHANE EMISSIONS.

SHE'S STILL STICKING TO HER GUNS ON THIS VERY CONTROVERSIAL PROPOSAL TO OVERHAUL CASH BAIL LAWS DESPITE, YOU KNOW, YEARS OF PRESSURE AND THAT IS CONTINUING UP AND THROUGH BUDGET TALKS, AND I GUESS THE GOVERNOR, IN THIS CASE, BIT OFF A LITTLE BIT MORE THAN SHE COULD CHEW AND KIND OF STOOD BACK AND SAID, NO, I WANT TO FIGHT ABOUT BAIL AND CONCENTRATE ON THAT.

SO WE'RE TALKING FRIDAY MORNING.

IF YOU ARE WATCHING ON SUNDAY, I APOLOGIZE.

THIS MAY BE A LITTLE BIT OF OLD NEWS NOW BUT BUDGET NEGOTIATIONS WILL BE HAPPENING EVERY DAY.

THEY WILL HAPPEN THIS WEEKEND.

IT'S A HOLIDAY WEEKEND.

THE LEADERS WILL STILL BE IN TOWN PRESUMABLY.

IS BAIL REFORM STILL THE STICKING POINT IN YOUR EYES, ZACH?

IS THAT KIND OF WHERE WE ARE STILL COMPARED TO THE EARLY PART?

BAIL REFORM HAS REALLY SET THE TONE FOR ALL THE NEGOTIATIONS BETWEEN THE GOVERNOR AND THE LEGISLATURE.

ALL THE TALK ABOUT THE DELAYED BUDGET THAT'S MOSTLY BECAUSE OF BAIL.

THERE HAVE BEEN DISAGREEMENTS ABOUT HOUSING AND OF COURSE, SOME OTHER PROPOSALS BUT YOU KNOW, SPEAKER CARL HEASTIE EARLIER THIS WEEK SAID THAT BAIL WAS SUCKING UP LIKE 90% OF THE POLITICAL OXYGEN IN BUDGET TALKS.

RIGHT.

NOW THERE WERE HINTS A LITTLE BIT LATER IN THE WEEK THAT THEY WERE COVERING OTHER TOPICS AS WELL, BUT I THINK EVERYBODY THAT'S WATCHING THESE NEGOTIATIONS CLOSELY WOULD SAY THAT UNTIL THEY FIGURE OUT BAIL AND WHAT THE LEGISLATURE GETS AND WHAT THE GOVERNOR GETS, IT'S GOING TO BE PRETTY HARD TO KIND OF BRANCH OUT INTO ALL THE OTHER ISSUES THAT THEY GOT TO SOLVE HERE.

JON, CAN YOU TALK ABOUT THE DYNAMICS OF THIS FOR MEMBERS OF OUR AUDIENCE WHO MAY NOT BE FAMILIAR WITH THE BUDGET PROCESS?

THE GOVERNOR HAS EXTRAORDINARY POWER IN THE BUDGET PROCESS IN NEW YORK.

YOU KNOW, IS THIS A TYPICAL MOVE FROM A GOVERNOR IN NEW YORK, TO TRY TO GET WHAT THEY WANT?

WELL, IT WAS A TYPICAL MOVE IN THE PRE-CUOMO YEARS.

YES.

I MEAN, BUDGETS WERE LATE AND VERY LATE, AND GOVERNORS OFTEN TRIED TO USE THAT TO THEIR ADVANTAGE, USE THAT AS LEVERAGE TO GET THINGS THAT THEY WANTED.

IN PART BECAUSE WHEN THE BUDGET IS LATE, LAWMAKERS DON'T GET PAID.

THEIR PAY IS WITHHELD UNTIL THAT WHOLE BUDGET IS IN PLACE.

THAT'S THE SITUATION WE HAVE NOW.

GOVERNOR HOCHUL HAS MADE VERY CLEAR IN HER TWO YEARS THAT SHE IS WILLING TO PUSH THE BUDGET LATE IN ORDER TO GET WHAT SHE WANTS.

SHE GOT SOME BAIL CHANGES LAST YEAR.

SHE GOT THE BUFFALO BILLS STADIUM DEAL INCLUDED IN THE BUDGET LAST YEAR, IN PART BY GOING NINE DAYS LATE.

WE'RE SEEING THAT HAPPEN THIS YEAR AS WELL AND WHETHER OR NOT SHE'LL BE SUCCESSFUL, I MEAN, SHE IS REALLY HOLDING OUT FOR HER CHANGES TO THE BAIL LAWS.

SHE WANTS TO REMOVE THE LEAST RESTRICTIVE STANDARD, QUOTE, UNQUOTE, AND SHE'S MAKING VERY CLEAR THAT THAT'S WHAT SHE WANTS AND THAT'S WHAT SHE'S GOING TO HOLD OUT FOR.

YOU KNOW, I DID FIND IT INTERESTING, AS YOU SAID, ZACH, BY THE MIDDLE OF THE WEEK THEY SEEMED TO BE TALKING OTHER THINGS BESIDES BAIL.

PROBABLY NOT TO A GREAT EXTENT, BUT I THINK THE OTHER BIG CONFLICT HERE IS THE HOUSING PROPOSAL FROM THE GOVERNOR.

IT'S GOTTEN A LOT OF PUSHBACK, PARTICULARLY FROM PEOPLE IN THE SUBURBS WHO DON'T LIKE THE REQUIREMENT TO BUILD HOUSING NEAR TRANSIT, FOR EXAMPLE, AND HONESTLY, THEY JUST DON'T LIKE THE REQUIREMENT TO BUILD HOUSING.

THEY WANT TO DO IT ON THEIR TERMS AND IN THEIR OWN WAY.

JON, DO YOU STILL SEE THAT AS A STICKING POINT IN THE PROCESS?

OH, ABSOLUTELY.

I MEAN, THAT'S THE OTHER BIG STICKING POINT.

YEAH.

IS THE IDEA OF WHETHER OR NOT-- AS ANDREA STEWART-COUSINS, THE SENATE LEADER SAID, ARE WE GOING WITH THE CARROT APPROACH OR STICK APPROACH?

AND WHETHER OR NOT THEIR-- HOUSING PLAN IS GOING TO BE BASED ON, YOU KNOW, QUOTE, UNQUOTE, PUNITIVE MEASURES WHERE THE STATE CAN STEP IN AND OVERRIDE LOCAL CONTROL OR IF IT'S GOING TO START WITH OFFERING INCENTIVES TO TRY TO INCENTIVIZE THE BUILDING AND THE HOUSING LOCALLY.

THAT SAID, THERE ARE OTHER BIG ISSUES OUT THERE.

YES.

BEYOND THOSE TWO THAT WE HAVE NO IDEA WHERE THEY'RE AT RIGHT NOW.

CHARTER SCHOOLS IS ONE WHERE THE GOVERNOR AND THE LEGISLATURE ARE DIAMETRICALLY OPPOSED.

THE GOVERNOR WANTS TO EXPAND CHARTER SCHOOLS IN NEW YORK CITY.

THE LEGISLATURE VERY MUCH DOES NOT.

THE TEACHERS UNION VERY MUCH DOES NOT AND THEY'RE A VERY POWERFUL FORCE IN ALBANY.

EVEN AFTER YOU GET PAST BAIL AND HOUSING, YOU STILL HAVE THESE OTHER ISSUES THAT YOU HAVE TO TACKLE.

I WAS JUST GOING TO BRING UP FUNDING FOR THE MTA TO GO TO USAC.

IT'S ANOTHER ONE OF THOSE ISSUES AND AS YOU SAID, JON, THERE ARE THESE -- I DON'T WANT TO CALL THEM SMALLER ISSUES, BUT I THINK THEY ARE ISSUES THAT MAYBE THE GENERAL PUBLIC MAY NOT BE AS FAMILIAR WITH.

CHARTER SCHOOLS ARE VERY BIG IN NEW YORK CITY.

NOT SO BIG IN AREAS OF UPSTATE.

BUT MTA FUNDING, IN SOME WAYS, AFFECTS THE ENTIRE STATE, YOU KNOW, FOR PEOPLE IN THE FIVE BOROUGHS AND THE SUBURBS, IT'S LITERALLY LIKE THE BLOOD IN THEIR VEINS OF THAT CITY, BUT THE MORE MONEY YOU PUT TOWARD THE MTA, YOU MAY HAVE TO TAKE AWAY MONEY SOMEWHERE ELSE SO I THINK THAT THAT'S A REALLY INTERESTING THING TO BE WATCHING RIGHT NOW.

WHAT DO YOU THINK THAT LOOKS LIKE RIGHT NOW, ZACH?

DO WE KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THE FUNDING FOR THE MTA?

WELL, THERE'S ANOTHER ACTOR IN THESE NEGOTIATIONS DOWN THE HUDSON IN NEW YORK CITY AND THAT'S MAYOR ERIC ADAMS AND WHAT'S SO INTERESTING IS FOR A MODERATE DEMOCRAT, AS HE'S OFTEN CALLED, HE'S BEEN REALLY SIDING WITH THE LAWMAKERS ON SEVERAL KEY ISSUES.

WHILE THE GOVERNOR HAS PROPOSED THAT NEW YORK CITY PAY $500 MILLION MORE INTO THE MTA EVERY YEAR AND FOR OBVIOUS REASONS, THE MAYOR DOES NOT LIKE THIS IDEA.

AND HE HAS ALSO BEEN VERY QUIET ON BAIL REFORM, AN ISSUE THAT HE HAS SPOKEN QUITE VOCALLY ABOUT IN THE PAST AND ALSO KIND OF TRY TO HAVE IT BOTH WAYS WITH CHARTER SCHOOLS, SOMETHING HE SPOKEN FAVORABLY ABOUT IN THE PAST.

WHEREAS, THE GOVERNOR MAYBE IN THE PAST COULD HAVE LEANED ON MAYOR ADAMS OR AT LEAST HOPED SHE COULD LEAN ON HIM TO AT LEAST HELP WITH SOME OF THESE PROPOSALS, YOU KNOW, HE REALLY SEEMS TO BE HOLDING OUT WITH THE LEGISLATIVE LEADERS TRYING TO MAXIMIZE FUNDING FOR HIS OWN CITY, AND THAT'S GOING TO GIVE THE LEGISLATIVE LEADERS ANOTHER TOOL IN THEIR TOOLBOX, AS WE SAY, TO KIND OF, YOU KNOW, COME BACK AT THE GOVERNOR AND TRY TO GET HER TO NOT ONLY ABANDON THAT PROPOSAL FOR THE MTA BUT HER PROPOSED INCREASED TAX ON PAYROLL TAX ON BUSINESSES, SOMETHING THAT'S, YOU KNOW, SPEAK OF ANOTHER GROUP IN THE LEGISLATURE THAT'S VERY POWERFUL, MODERATE, SUBURBAN LAWMAKERS.

THEY DON'T LIKE THAT IDEA.

THEY DON'T LIKE THE HOUSING PLAN AND THEY'RE NOT SO KEEN ON WHAT THE GOVERNOR ALSO WANTS TO DO ON SOME OTHER FRONTS, CHARTER SCHOOLS, FOR INSTANCE.

THE GOVERNOR, IF SHE WANTS TO OVERCOME THIS RESISTANCE, IS GOING TO HAVE TO DO IT SEEMINGLY UNILATERALLY BECAUSE THE MAYOR OF NEW YORK CITY DOESN'T SEEM TOO EAGER TO HELP.

JON, 30 SECONDS, IS THAT A CHALLENGE FOR THE GOVERNOR?

OF COURSE IT'S A CHALLENGE FOR THE GOVERNOR.

THIS WHOLE THING IS A CHALLENGE FOR THE GOVERNOR.

THEN, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE OTHER ISSUES EVEN ON TOP OF THAT.

SHE WANTS A BAN ON MENTHOL CIGARETTES AND THAT'S SOMETHING THE LEGISLATURE IS RESISTING.

SO THERE'S JUST NOT A LOT OF UNIFORMITY RIGHT NOW ASIDE FROM MAYBE EDUCATION FUNDING, WHICH IS USUALLY A BIG PROBLEM.

RIGHT.

IT'S INTERESTING TO SEE BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, FIVE YEARS AGO I THINK THAT WE WOULD KNOW MORE BY NOW ABOUT THE BUDGET BUT BECAUSE OF THE NATURE OF KIND OF LIKE ZOOM LEADER MEETINGS AT POINTS, NOT ALWAYS, WE DON'T ALWAYS HAVE THE INFORMATION THAT WE USUALLY HAVE.

HOPEFULLY WE WILL KNOW MORE NEXT WEEK.

THANK YOU BOTH FOR YOUR TIME.

ZACH WILLIAMS FROM THE "NEW YORK POST" AND JON CAMPBELL FROM GOTHAMIST AND WNYC.

JUST A REMINDER THAT WE HAVE UPDATES EVERY DAY FROM THE STATE CAPITOL ON OUR WEBSITE, AND RIGHT NOW, WE HAVE A LIVE BLOG RUNNING TO GIVE YOU REAL-TIME UPDATES ON THE STATE BUDGET.

YOU CAN FIND ALL OF THAT AND A LOT MORE AT NYNOW.ORG, BUT THERE'S ONE THING WE'RE NOT EXPECTING AS PART OF THE STATE BUDGET THIS YEAR.

THAT'S HIGHER WORKER WAGES FOR PEOPLE IN PRISON, WHO SAY THEIR CURRENT PAY IS NOT ENOUGH.

AND THAT'S PROMPTED A BIGGER QUESTION ABOUT WHAT THEY DO AND WHY.

ALEXIS YOUNG HAS THAT STORY.

[ THEME MUSIC ] DURING THE THICK OF THE PANDEMIC, LOCAL GOVERNMENT IN NEW YORK STATE WERE STRUGGLING TO GET THEIR HANDS ON HAND SANITIZER.

IN MARCH 2020, REGULAR BOTTLES OF PURELL HAND SANITIZER HAD SKYROCKETED ON AMAZON AND EBAY AND AFTER REQUESTING AN END TO WHAT THEN-GOVERNOR CUOMO CALLED PRICE GOUGING, HE FOUND A $6.10 PER GALLON SOLUTION, PRISON LABOR.

THE 56TH GOVERNOR OF NEW YORK STATE HAD INCARCERATED INDIVIDUALS PRODUCE NEW YORK STATE CLEAN HAND SANITIZER, 1 MILLION BOTTLES OF IT LEAVING AN EXCESS OF 700,000 GALLONS.

INCARCERATED INDIVIDUALS MAKE AN HOURLY WAGE BETWEEN 10 AND 65 CENTS IN NEW YORK PRISONS.

SOME ACTIVISTS AND LEGISLATORS REFER TO THE SYSTEM AS FORCED PRISON LABOR OR SLAVE LABOR.

HAD BUT IF YOU SPOKE TO ANY EVERYDAY NEW YORKER AND YOU ASKED THEM WHETHER SLAVERY STILL EXISTS TODAY, THEY WOULD SAY, OF COURSE NOT.

OF COURSE NOT.

WE ARE HUNDREDS OF YEARS PAST THE ENDING OF SLAVERY, BUT WE TODAY IN THIS NEW YORK CONSTITUTION STILL HAVE SLAVERY EMBEDDED IN OUR LAWS.

BUT NOT ALL NEW YORK LAWMAKERS AGREE.

RANKER FOR THE CRIME VICTIMS CRIME AND CORRUPTION SENATE COMMITTEE, SENATOR PATRICK GALLIVAN FROM THE 60TH DISTRICT NEAR ROCHESTER, OPPOSES THE BILL AND DOESN'T RECOGNIZE PRISON LABOR AS FORCED OR SLAVE LABOR.

SO I DON'T AGREE WITH THE PREMISE THAT IT'S, QUOTE, SLAVE LABOR, QUOTE, UNQUOTE.

I THINK IT'S PART OF A PROGRAM, WHILE THEY ARE IN PRISON, THAT'S PART OF A REHABILITATIVE PROCESS, AND AS IT RELATES TO ACTUALLY SPENDING TIME IN A WORK ASSIGNMENT, IT'S DOING SOMETHING CONSTRUCTIVE.

ACCORDING TO THE DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTIONAL AND COMMUNITY SERVICES OR DOCCS, CORRECTION LAW STATES THAT INCARCERATED INDIVIDUALS BE ENROLLED IN TREATMENT PROGRAMS AND WORK ASSIGNMENTS.

THAT WORK MAKES INCARCERATED INDIVIDUALS EMPLOYEES AT CORECRAFT, A COMPANY DESCRIBED AS THE BRAND NAME FOR THE DIVISION OF CORRECTIONAL INDUSTRIES WITHIN DOCCS.

CORECRAFT IS A NEW YORK STATE PREFERRED SOURCE, MEANING THE COMPANY CONTRACTS WITH LOCAL GOVERNMENTS TO PROVIDE THINGS LIKE OFFICE SUPPLIES, ROAD SIGNS, CALL CENTER SERVICES AND MORE.

ACCORDING TO THE CORECRAFT WEBSITE, THE GOAL IS TO EMPLOY INCARCERATED INDIVIDUALS TO PRODUCE GOODS WHILE PREPARING THEM FOR RELEASE BY TEACHING THEM WORK STILL SKILLS, WORK ETHIC AND RESPONSIBILITY.

THE BILL TEXT FOR THE PRISON MINIMUM WAGE ACT SAYS THOSE CONTRACTS ARE A MONOPOLY IN THE MUNICIPAL INSTITUTION MARKET AND GOES ON TO ADDRESS A CONNECTION BETWEEN SLAVERY AND PRISON LABOR LAW.

IN THE ASSEMBLY, THE PRISON MINIMUM WAGE ACT IS SPONSORED BY ASSEMBLY MEMBER HARVEY EPSTEIN OF DISTRICT 74.

WE SEE THIS THROUGHOUT NEW YORK.

YOU SEE IT WHEN YOU WALK THE HALLS, IN THE DESKS WE SIT AT, IN THE CHAIRS WE SIT IN, IN THE HAND SANITIZER WE'RE USING.

OUR GOVERNMENT IS ABUSING NEW YORKERS, ALLOWING SLAVE LABOR AND INVOLUNTARY SERVITUDE FOR INCARCERATED PEOPLE.

SLAVERY WAS ABOLISHED WITH THE 1863 EMANCIPATION PROCLAMATION AND CONSTITUTIONALLY BY THE 13TH AMENDMENT IN 1865, BUT THERE'S A CAVEAT.

SECTION 1 OF THE 13TH AMENDMENT STATES NEITHER SLAVERY NOR INVOLUNTARY SERVITUDE, EXCEPT AS A PUNISHMENT OF CRIME WHERE THE PARTY SHALL BE DULY CONVICTED SHALL EXIST WITHIN THE UNITED STATES OR ANY PLACE SUBJECT TO THE JURISDICTION.

BILL SPONSORS SAY THAT EXCEPTION MEANS NEW YORK IS CONTINUING TO PROFIT UNFAIRLY FROM THE WORK OF INCARCERATED INDIVIDUALS.

LATIF SHAMSUDDIN SPENT HIS DAYS INSIDE GREEN CORRECTIONAL FACILITY SINCE 2017 BETWEEN HIS TWO JOBS AS A PORTER OR CUSTODIAN IN THE DORMS AND AN IPA, OR TEACHER'S ASSISTANT, HE SAYS HE EARNS AROUND $3 EVERY TWO WEEKS.

IT'S LIKE $3 EVERY COMMISSARY AND IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE ONE OF THE TOP PAYING JOBS BECAUSE YOU'RE WORKING WITH, YOU KNOW, CIVILIAN, HAND IN HAND.

SO I'M NOT SEEING ANY OF THAT.

IT CAN BE DOCKED FOR GATE MONEY.

IF YOU HAVE CHILD SUPPORT, THAT TAPS INTO THAT AS WELL SO BASICALLY LEAVES WITH YOU KNOTTING AND THAT'S THE SITUATION I'M IN.

SHAMSUDDIN SAYS WAGES CAN ALSO BE DOCKED FOR RESTITUTION AND FINES LIKE DAMAGING STATE PROPERTY FEES.

ROSEMARY RIVERA, THE CO-EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF CITIZEN ACTION OF NEW YORK AND THE PUBLIC POLICY AND EDUCATION FUND, WAS INCARCERATED IN THE '80S.

DURING HER TIME INSIDE, SHE CAUGHT A CHARGE FOR DAMAGING STATE PROPERTY, HER SKIN.

ONE OF THE FUNDAMENTAL PRINCIPLES OF SLAVERY IS THE BELIEF THAT THE PERSON ENSLAVED IS NOT A PERSON BUT THE PROPERTY OF THE SLAVE MASTER.

IT IS ENGRAINED IN MY BRAIN THAT I COULD BE WRITTEN UP OR END UP IN SOLITARY CONFINEMENT BECAUSE I GOT A SUNBURN.

I'M A REAL LIGHT-SKINNED PUERTO RICAN.

YOU SET ME IN THAT YARD FOR WHILE, I'M GONNA GET SOME SUN.

THE CHARGE THAT I GOT WAS DAMAGING STATE PROPERTY.

THERE ARE ADDITIONAL BILLS THAT ATTEMPT TO IMPROVE THE QUALITY OF LIFE FOR FOLKS LIVING INSIDE PRISONS.

THE BILL THAT WOULD CREATE A PRISON LABOR BOARD WAS INTRODUCED BY SENATOR MYRIE LAST SESSION.

S.614A WOULD CREATE AND MONITOR EQUITABLE WORKING ENVIRONMENTS FOR INCARCERATED INDIVIDUALS.

SENATOR GALLIVAN SAID THE BILL-- IMPLIES THAT CONDITIONS ARE INHUMANE AND THE WORKING CONDITIONS ARE POOR.

IT SHOULDN'T BE THE CASE, IF THAT IS TRUE.

I THINK WE TO HAVE AN OBLIGATION TO ENSURE THAT THERE ARE HUMANE CONDITIONS.

THERE'S A COMMISSION OF CORRECTION WHO HAS OVERSIGHT RESPONSIBILITY OF ALL CORRECTIONAL FACILITIES.

ON THE PRISON MINIMUM WAGE ACT, THE SENATOR SAID IF WAGES ARE RAISED FOR INCARCERATED INDIVIDUALS, IT SHOULD RELIEVE NEW YORK STATE TAXPAYERS OF CERTAIN COSTS.

PRISONS ESPECIALLY HERE IN NEW YORK STATE SHOULD INCLUDE A REHABILITATION PROCESS, BUT TAXPAYERS ARE PAYING FOR ROOM.

THEY'RE PAYING FOR BOARD.

THEY'RE PAYING FOR MEDICAL SERVICES, VOCATIONAL SERVICES, EDUCATIONAL SERVICE IS VERY... PROGRAMMATIC ISSUES, LIKE ANGER MANAGEMENT.

ASSEMBLY MEMBER PHIL PALMESANO SERVES THE 132ND ASSEMBLY DISTRICT.

THE ASSEMBLYMAN AGREES WITH SENATOR GALLIVAN.

HE MAINTAINS THAT PRISON LABOR IS NOT SLAVE LABOR AND ANY INCREASE IN WAGES SHOULD BE AWARDED TO CORRECTIONAL OFFICERS NOT INCARCERATED INDIVIDUALS.

FRANKLY, I THINK IF WE DID ASK THE TAXPAYERS FOR ANYTHING MORE, I THINK WE SHOULD BE LOOKING FOR INCREASE IN WAGES FOR CORRECTIONS OFFICERS.

THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS THE WAGES IN THE CORRECTIONAL FACILITIES IS NOT ABOUT THE WAGES.

IT'S ABOUT PREPARING THEM FOR EMPLOYMENT.

I MEAN, IT'S WELL DOCUMENTED.

THERE'S A CLEAR CORRELATION.

THE BILL WOULD ALSO COST THE STATE MONEY.

THOUGH SUPPORTERS DIDN'T SAY HOW MUCH WHEN ASKED, A COST ESTIMATE IS NOT INCLUDED AS PART OF THE BILL.

SOME OF ASSEMBLY MEMBER PALMESANO'S COLLEAGUES ACROSS THE AISLE FEEL DIFFERENTLY AND THE BILL THAT WOULD ENACT THE PRISON MINIMUM WAGE ACT IS CURRENTLY IN COMMITTEE WHERE IT HAS DIED IN PREVIOUS YEARS.

IN THE NEW YORK STATE CAPITOL FOR "NEW YORK NOW," ALEXIS YOUNG.

[ THEME MUSIC ] AND THE STATE DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTION, WHICH OVERSEES STATE PRISONS DECLINED TO COMMENT ON THAT BILL.

BUT BEFORE WE LET YOU GO, AN UPDATE ON GOOD CAUSE EVICTION.

IT'S A BILL THAT WOULD SET LIMITS FOR LANDLORDS ON WHEN THEY COULD EVICT SOMEONE AND HOW MUCH RENT CAN GO UP.

SUPPORTERS WANT TO SEE IT PASSED AS PART OF THE BUDGET.

SAYING IT WOULD HELP TENANTS AT A TIME WHEN THE ECONOMY'S FUTURE IS UNCLEAR, BUT ASSEMBLY HOUSING CHAIR LINDA ROSENTHAL SAID THIS WEEK THAT OTHER ISSUES HAVE COME FIRST IN THE BUDGET.

THINGS ARE-- ARE NOT ADVANCING FORWARD AS LONG AS I THINK SOME OTHER BAIL DISCUSSIONS ARE-- HAVE NOT COME TO CONCLUSION.

AND WE DON'T EVEN REALLY KNOW IF IT'S BEING SERIOUSLY DISCUSSED AT THIS POINT, BUT LANDLORDS HAVE BEEN THE MAIN OPPONENTS OF THE BILL.

THEY DON'T LIKE ANY OF IT, BUT OPPONENTS ALSO SAY IT COULD HINDER HOUSING GROWTH IN NEW YORK WHICH IS A BIG ISSUE RIGHT NOW IN THE STATE BUDGET.

GOVERNOR HOCHUL WANTS TO BUILD 800,000 NEW HOUSING UNITS OVER THE NEXT DECADE AND OPPONENTS SAY GOOD CAUSE COULD GET IN THE WAY.

TIM FOLEY IS CEO OF THE BUILDING AND REALITY INSTITUTE OF WESTCHESTER.

BECAUSE GOOD CAUSE EVICTION APPLIES TO EVERYTHING, IT APPLIES TO MARKET.

IT APPLIES TO DUPLEXES YOU MIGHT BUILD IF YOU'RE NOT GOING TO LIVE IN THEM YOURSELVES, SOUP TO NUTS, WE THINK A LOT OF DEVELOPERS WOULD BE VERY CAUTIOUS ABOUT GETTING IN THERE AND THEY MIGHT HAVE SOME TROUBLE SECURING THE FINANCING THAT WE NEED TO GET ANYTHING BUILT HERE IN NEW YORK IT'S SO EXPENSIVE.

SO WE'LL KEEP AN EYE ON THAT OVER THE NEXT FEW WEEKS THAT DOES IT FOR THIS WEEK.

THANKS FOR WATCHING THIS WEEK'S "NEW YORK NOW."

HAVE A GREAT WEEK AND BE WELL.

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