REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM >>LORENE: HELLO, I'M LORENE MILLS AND WELCOME TO REPORT FROM SANTA FE .

OH, YOU ARE IN FOR A TREAT OUR GUEST TODAY IS ANNE HILLERMAN, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>>ANNE: THANK YOU, LORENE, I ALWAYS ENJOY TALKING WITH YOU.

>>LORENE: I LOVE IT TOO, AND YOU ARE BLESSING US BY WRITING, NOW YOUR SEVENTH BOOK.

YOUR NEW BOOK IS CALLED, THE SACRED BRIDGE AND I HAVE INVITED YOU HERE TO TALK ABOUT IT TODAY, BUT LET'S GIVE A LITTLE ABOUT YOUR BACKGROUND.

YOU ARE THE DAUGHTER OF THE BELOVED NOVELIST, TONY HILLERMAN AND JOURNALIST BECAUSE HE AND MY LATE HUSBAND WERE JOURNALISTS TOGETHER.

BUT YOU ARE A NEW YORK TIMES BESTSELLING AUTHOR, YOU GOT THE FRANK WATERS AWARD, A NEW MEXICO PRESS WOMEN'S AWARD, AND YOU WERE NAMED A "ROUNDER" AFTER MAX EVANS FOR YOUR CONTRIBUTIONS TO THE WEST.

>>ANNE: I WAS ABSOLUTELY THRILLED TO GET THAT AWARD, THAT MEANT SO MUCH TO ME.

>>LORENE: WELL YOU AND HE HAVE A LOT IN COMMON - FIRST OF ALL, YOUR CHARACTERS, BUT THE FACT THAT YOU MAKE THE LANDSCAPE A PALPABLE CHARACTER, PEOPLE CAN EXPERIENCE WHAT IT IS LIKE TO BE IN THOSE AREAS.

AND LET ME QUICKLY JUST MENTION THIS, FOR THOSE PEOPLE WHO WANT TO ACTUALLY PHYSICALLY EXPERIENCE THE PLACES THAT WERE IN YOUR DAD'S BOOKS, TONY'S BOOKS, AND YOURS, THIS IS CALLED, TONY HILLERMAN'S LANDSCAPES AND YOUR LAST HUSBAND, DON, MADE THESE BEAUTIFUL PHOTOGRAPHS AND SO YOU CAN DRIVE OUT TO THE WESTERN PART OF NEW MEXICO AND FIND ALL THE PLACES IN THESE BOOKS AND YOU CAN GET THE MAP.

>>ANNE: THAT'S RIGHT.

SO YOU NOTICE THE NEW MEXICO PRESS IS DISTRIBUTING THAT MAP.

>>LORENE: OH IT IS WONDERFUL.

>>ANNE: YEAH, I REALLY LOVE IT.

IT HAS ALL OF THE SITES THAT DAD WROTE ABOUT AND SOME SITES I WRITE ABOUT MARKED ON THAT MAP.

>>LORENE: YEAH.

WELL WHAT I LOVE IS THE WAY ALL OF YOUR BOOKS ARE SET IN DIFFERENT LOCALES, SO I LEARNED SO MUCH ABOUT THE HISTORY OF THE AREA AND PEOPLE HAD ALWAYS TALKED ABOUT HOW THEY LOVE YOUR DAD'S BOOKS AND HOW MUCH THEY LEARNED FROM IT AND YOU ARE CONTINUING THAT REALLY TANTALIZING TRADITION.

SO, I THANK YOU.

>>ANNE: WELL, THANK YOU.

ONE THING I REALLY ENJOYED ABOUT WRITING THE SACRED BRIDGE WAS THAT IT GAVE ME A CHANCE TO LEARN A LOT ABOUT THE ORIGIN OF LAKE POWELL AND THE DESTRUCTION OF GLEN CANYON, THE CREATION OF THAT DAM AND FROM THERE A LOT ABOUT SALVAGE ARCHEOLOGY, WHICH, YOU KNOW, ARCHEOLOGY IS SO IMPORTANT TO ALL OF US IN THE SOUTHWEST.

AND IT WAS REALLY, REALLY AN INTERESTING GROWTH EXPERIENCE FOR ME AND ONE THING I LEARNED THAT I HADN'T EXPECTED WAS THAT BACK IN THE 1960S, WOMEN WERE NOT ALLOWED ON THESE TEAMS, A FEW OF THEM KIND OF SNUCK IN, BUT BASICALLY IT WAS TOO SWEATY AND TOO HOT, YOU KNOW.

>>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.

>>ANNE: POOR LITTLE WOMEN SHOULDN'T BE OUT THERE.

>>LORENE: A FINE TOUCH AND A SENSE OF DETAIL AND ALSO A REAL PHYSICAL SENSE OF THE GENERATIONS AND OF ARCHEOLOGY.

YOU KNOW WE ARE PART OF THAT CHAIN, SO I AM GLAD THAT IS NO LONGER TRUE.

>>ANNE: ME TOO, ME TOO.

>>LORENE: SO THIS BOOK, THE SACRED BRIDGE , IS THE SEVENTH OF YOUR BERNIE BOOKS.

BUT ONE THING I JUST WANT TO SAY, WHEN YOU STARTED THIS, PEOPLE SAID, DIDN'T YOU TALK TO YOUR DAD ABOUT YOU WERE GOING TO KILL, YOU DIDN'T.

>>ANNE: NO, I COULDN'T, I JUST COULD NOT IMAGINE REALLY THE WORLD WITHOUT MY FATHER IN IT.

AND THESE STORIES WERE MY FATHER'S STORIES AND SO YOU KNOW THE IDEA OF TAKING THEM OVER JUST SEEMED LIKE SUCH AN INTRUSION.

BUT THEN AFTER HE DIED, I REALIZED THAT BESIDES MISSING MY DAD, I WAS VERY MUCH MISSING THESE CHARACTERS AND IT JUST DIDN'T SEEM RIGHT THAT THEIR STORIES COULDN'T GO ON.

SO I THOUGHT WELL I CAN TRY WRITING A BOOK AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS AND THE WORST THING IS THAT I WILL HAVE WASTED A YEAR OF MY LIFE BUT THEN I WILL GET IT OUT OF MY SYSTEM.

BUT, IN FACT, DAD'S FANS WERE VERY GRACIOUS AND WELCOMED BERNADETTE MANUELITO AS A CRIME SOLVER.

SO I AM JUST DELIGHTED TO BE ABLE TO CONTINUE TO WORK WITH HER.

SO IN THE SACRED BRIDGE , BERNIE HAS HER OWN STORY WHICH REALLY PUTS HER IN MORE DANGER THAN I HAVE PUT HER IN IN ANY OF MY OTHER BOOKS.

AND WHEN I CAME UP WITH THAT IDEA, I WASN'T QUITE SURE HOW SHE WOULD GET OUT OF IT, BUT BERNIE IS VERY RESOURCEFUL, SO I DON'T WANT TO GIVE AWAY TOO MUCH BUT ALL IS WELL IN THE END.

>>LORENE: RIGHT, BUT THAT IS ALWAYS A CAVEAT WHEN YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT MYSTERIES IS TO NOT GIVE AWAY THE MYSTERY, BUT THERE IS SOME TECHNIQUES THAT YOU USE THAT WE CAN TALK ABOUT WITHOUT REVEALING AND IT IS A THRILLING READ.

I THOUGHT I WOULD READ IT IN TWO DAYS, NO, I READ IT IN ONE DAY AND I THOUGHT WELL YOU COULD JUST START AGAIN IN THE MORNING, BUT I SAID, I HAVE TO FIND OUT HOW THIS TURNS OUT.

SO YOUR BIG CHALLENGE WHEN YOU STARTED WRITING THESE, YOU HAD FEARS AND CONCERNS THAT IT HAD TO BE TRUE TO TONY'S BOOKS AND YET MAKE THEM YOUR OWN.

AT BOOK SEVEN, WILL YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT YOU DID THAT, YOU DON'T HAVE TO WORRY, THE CHALLENGE IS YOU TRIUMPHED OVER THAT CHALLENGE.

>>ANNE: THAT'S RIGHT, THAT CHALLENGE IS TAKEN CARE OF.

BUT, OF COURSE, THERE ARE ALWAYS MORE CHALLENGES.

>>LORENE: OF COURSE.

>>ANNE: AND THAT'S KIND OF THE JOY OF BEING A WRITER I THINK THAT JUST WHEN YOU THINK, OH GEE, I HAVE LEARNED SO MUCH, THEN YOU START A NEW BOOK AND YOU HAVE A WHOLE DIFFERENT AREA TO LEARN ABOUT AND OTHER PLOT DEVELOPMENTS THAT I HADN'T EXPECTED AND NEW CHARACTERS, SO IT IS REALLY A WONDERFUL, WONDERFUL CAREER.

I LOVE IT.

>>LORENE: WELL, LET US LOOK AT, WE WILL QUICKLY GO THROUGH YOUR FIRST SIX BOOKS AND ONE OF THE REASONS IS I LOVE THE COVERS ON THESE BOOKS.

AND SO IF YOU CAN QUICKLY HOLD THEM UP AND SAY THE NAME OF THEM.

>>ANNE: THIS ONE IS SPIDER WOMAN'S DAUGHTER, THIS WAS MY FIRST BOOK.

AND THEN AFTER IT CAME ROCK WITH WINGS , WHICH IS SET PARTLY AT MONUMENT VALLEY.

>>LORENE: AND ISN'T THAT THE NAME FOR SHIPROCK?

>>ANNE: IT IS, IT IS, IT IS THE ENGLISH TRANSLATION OF THE NAVAJO WORD FOR SHIPROCK.

AND THIS ONE, SONG OF THE LION , IS SET AT THE GRAND CANYON AND THIS ONE INVOLVES A MEDIATION ABOUT A PLAN TO BUILD A BIG DEVELOPMENT ON NAVAJO LAND AND, OF COURSE, THE NAVAJO COUNCIL IS PROBABLY AGAINST IT, BUT THEY WANT TO BE FAIR TO EVERYBODY.

THIS ONE IS ONE OF MY FAVORITES, THIS CAVE OF BONES IS ABOUT A TEENAGE GIRL WHO IS ON ONE OF THE WILDERNESS EXPLORATION PROGRAMS WHO GETS LOST AND THEN HER LEADER GOES TO FIND HER AND HE GETS LOST.

AND IT HAS A LOT OF COMPLICATIONS AND I REALLY LIKE THAT ONE.

AND THEN THIS ONE, IN SPIDER WOMAN'S DAUGHTER , SOMETHING BAD HAPPENS TO JOE LEAPHORN, MY DAD'S INAUGURAL CHARACTER, BUT IN THE TALE TELLER , JOE IS BACK AS THE MAIN CRIME SOLVER.

HE EVEN GETS IN A FIGHT WITH PEOPLE, HE IS LIKE AT HIS FULL STRENGTH AND IT WAS A PLEASURE TO BE ABLE TO WORK WITH HIM AGAIN AS A REAL DETECTIVE.

>>LORENE: OH, THAT IS SO BEAUTIFUL.

>>ANNE: THIS IS LIKE MY TWO-YEAR-OLD.

THIS WAS THE BOOK THAT CAME OUT RIGHT BEFORE THE SACRED BRIDGE.

AND THIS BOOK INVOLVES ASTRONOMY AND PART OF IT IS SET AT THE VERY LARGE ARRAY THAT WONDERFUL, THE RADIO TELESCOPES OUT ON THE SAN AUGUSTIN PLAIN.

>>LORENE: AND LISTEN FOR MESSAGES FROM SPACE.

>>ANNE: THAT'S RIGHT, BUT IT ALSO TIES INTO THE ALAMO NAVAJO RESERVATION, WHICH I HAD NEVER WRITTEN ABOUT AND MY DAD HAD NEVER WRITTEN ABOUT.

>>LORENE: AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I LOVE WAS THAT YOU GAVE SOME INSIGHTS INTO NAVAJO COSMOLOGY AND THE CONSTELLATIONS AS EVERY CULTURE DOES, THEY ARE NAMED AFTER THEIR ORIGIN MYTHS AND EVERYTHING, BUT IT WAS SUCH A RICH, RICH READ.

SO LET'S TALK ABOUT THE SACRED BRIDGE .

I WAS GOING THROUGH WITH ALL THE METAPHORS AND IMAGES OF BRIDGES, AND I REALIZED THAT THIS IS THE BOOK YOU WROTE DURING THE PANDEMIC AND SO THERE IS AN ISOLATION IN WHICH BUILDING A BRIDGE OUT TO THE WORLD WE USED TO KNOW, JUST IN OUR EVERYDAY LIFE.

AND IT WAS ALSO THE FIRST BOOK YOU WROTE AFTER YOUR WONDERFUL HUSBAND, DON, DIED AND SO THERE IS THAT.

BUT THEN YOU TOOK A BIG STEP HAVING TWO HEROES OR RATHER ONE HERO AND ONE HEROINE AND TWO VILLAINS AND YOU HAD TO BRIDGE, INTERCONNECT ALL THESE MOVING PARTS AND IT WAS QUITE ASTONISHING.

>>ANNE: IT WAS QUITE AMAZING.

>>LORENE: WOW IT WORKS.

>>ANNE: PARTLY DONE WITH THAT WHEN I WAS PARTLY FINISHED WITH THAT BOOK, I THOUGH GEE, WOULDN'T IT BE NICE IF I WERE ONE OF THOSE WRITERS WHO DID AN OUTLINE.

>>LORENE: YES.

>>ANNE: SO I WOULD KIND OF UNDERSTAND WHERE THE STORY IS GOING FROM HERE.

BUT I HAVE NEVER BEEN ABLE TO WORK LIKE THAT.

SO I SORT OF JUST LEFT THE CHARACTERS LEAD THE WAY AND I WAS LUCKY THAT THIS WAS MY SEVENTH BOOK BECAUSE BY THIS TIME, I HAD LEARNED TO TRUST MY INSTINCTS A LITTLE MORE AND NOT TO GET TOO DISCOURAGED WHEN IT LOOKED LIKE THERE WOULD BE NO SOLUTION.

SO INITIALLY WHEN I STARTED THIS BOOK, I WASN'T REALLY PLANNING ON HAVING TWO MAJOR STORIES, I THOUGHT I WILL FIGURE OUT EARLY IN THE STORY HOW TO INTEGRATE THEM TOGETHER AND JIM CHEE AND BERNADETTE MANUELITO WILL BE ABLE TO WORK TOGETHER.

BUT IT JUST DIDN'T HAPPEN THAT WAY.

SO I REALLY WASN'T ABLE TO BRING THEM TOGETHER UNTIL THE VERY END OF THE BOOK, I MEAN PHONE CALLS BUT NOT PHYSICALLY TOGETHER.

>>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH, YEAH.

YOU LAUNCHED THIS BOOK JUST A WEEK AGO AND I KNOW THAT SOMEBODY ASKED YOU ABOUT DO YOU DO AN OUTLINE.

AND YOU MENTIONED THAT OUR GOOD FRIEND, DAVID MORRELL, WHO WROTE THE RAMBO SERIES AMONG OTHERS, SAID THAT HE WOULD WRITE HIMSELF A LETTER WHERE HE OUTLINED HIS GOAL FOR THE BOOK.

AND THAT YOUR DAD, ALTHOUGH HE PROBABLY DIDN'T DO OUTLINES BECAUSE IT WAS ALL IN THERE, BUT THAT WHEN HE DIDN'T KNOW WHERE TO GO NEXT, HE WOULD PLAY DOUBLE SOLITAIRE AND JUST GET THE MOVEMENT GOING IN THE SUPERFICIAL MIND MATCHING NUMBERS, SO THAT ANOTHER PART OF HIS BRAIN COULD FIGURE OUT THE PROBLEM.

>>ANNE: YEAH, THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT HE DID.

I THINK FOR A LOT OF WRITERS, PARTICULARLY BEGINNING WRITERS, WHEN YOU REACH A POINT WHERE YOU ARE NOT QUITE SURE IF YOU EVEN HAVE A STORY IT'S EASY TO GET DISCOURAGED.

YOU MENTIONED EARLIER THIS WAS MY PANDEMIC BOOK AND I THINK THERE WAS A LOT OF DISCOURAGEMENT THAT JUST CAME WITH THE PANDEMIC.

BUT I THINK THE REAL KEY TO KIND OF CREATE A SUCCESS IS SORT OF SELF-CONFIDENCE.

YOU JUST HAVE TO THINK SOMEWHERE OUT THERE IS THE ANSWER TO THIS QUESTION AND THE ONLY WAY I WILL FIND IT IS IF I KEEP IT IN MY CONSCIOUSNESS.

NOT NECESSARILY BEAT YOURSELF UP OVER NOT KNOWING IT, BUT JUST KIND OF BE OPEN TO THE ANSWER.

AND SO THAT WAS SORT OF WHAT I DID WITH SACRED BRIDGE .

I DID A LOT OF WALKING AS I WAS WORKING ON THAT STORY.

I WAS TAKING A WONDERFUL YOGA CLASS AND IT SEEMED LIKE ALL OF THOSE KIND OF PHYSICAL EXERCISES SORT OF GAVE MY BRAIN A LITTLE BREAK AND THEN WHEN I WENT BACK TO THE STORY, SOMETIMES IDEAS WOULD COME TO ME.

>>LORENE: YES, WELL, CLEARLY.

SO LEAPHORN FIGURES IN THIS VERY STRONGLY, BUT THIS IS THE 25TH OF THE COMBINED HILLERMAN/LEAPHORN/CHEE AND NOW MANUELITO NOVELS, AND HOW OLD IN REAL TIME MIGHT LEAPHORN BE OR CHEE EVEN?

>>ANNE: I HAD NEVER REALLY, I KNEW THAT LEAPHORN WAS GETTING UP THERE BECAUSE HE HAD RETIRED PROBABLY IN MY DAD'S TENTH BOOK, WHICH WAS A VERY LONG TIME AGO.

AND I WAS DOING A PROGRAM AT THE LEFT COAST CRIME WRITERS CONFERENCE, AND SOMEONE THERE CAME UP TO ME AND THEY SAID, "WELL YOU KNOW, I LOVED READING YOUR DAD'S FIRST BOOK, THE BLESSING WAY ."

AND HE SAID, "DO YOU REMEMBER IN THAT BOOK HE SAYS 'JOE LEAPHORN IS 40?"

AND THAT WAS BACK IN 1970.

>>LORENE: AH.

>>ANNE: SO THAT WOULD MAKE HIM 92, WHICH IS PRETTY, PRETTY UP THERE EVEN FOR A NAVAJO DETECTIVE.

BUT LUCKILY, FICTIONAL CHARACTERS DON'T HAVE TO AGE IN REAL TIME.

>>LORENE: AND ICONIC CHARACTERS DON'T HAVE TO AGE EITHER.

LEAR IS NOT GETTING ANY OLDER.

>>ANNE: THAT'S RIGHT, THAT'S EXACTLY RIGHT.

SO IN THIS BOOK, LEAPHORN IS A PRESENCE BUT HE DOESN'T HAVE TO PUT OUT ANY FIRES, HE DOESN'T HAVE TO FIGHT ANY RABID DOGS.

HE IS MORE SERVING AS A MENTOR AND AN INSPIRATION.

AND THAT SEEMS APPROPRIATE AS THE SERIES GOES ON, I MEAN THAT HAS KIND OF BEEN THE ROLE HE HAS BEEN WORKING HIMSELF INTO FOR SEVERAL BOOKS.

SO MY THOUGHT IS THAT I WILL JUST CONTINUE HIM IN THAT ROLE.

>>LORENE: WELL, WE ARE SPEAKING TODAY WITH ANNE HILLERMAN ABOUT HER LATEST BOOK, THE SACRED BRIDGE , AND SO I DO HAVE A LOT OF QUESTIONS FOR YOU ABOUT SOME OF THE HISTORY YOU UNEARTHED IN THIS.

FOR EXAMPLE, WHEN THEY CLOSED THE GLEN CANYON DAM IN LAKE POWELL, THERE WAS A WHOLE LOT OF ARCHEOLOGY THERE AND TALK TO ME ABOUT THIS SALVAGE ARCHEOLOGIST, WHO IN THE REAL WORLD, WHO WENT IN AND TRIED TO SAVE EVERYTHING THEY COULD BEFORE IT WAS UNDER WATER.

>>ANNE: THAT'S RIGHT AND YOU KNOW THAT WAS BEFORE THE AGE OF REAL TECHNOLOGY.

SO YOU KNOW NOW WE COULD PROBABLY JUST PULL OUT OUR CELLPHONES AND MAKE A LITTLE VIDEO, BUT BACK THEN I MEAN THAT WAS THE 1960S.

SO THESE GUYS WERE MAKING SKETCHES, I SAY GUYS BECAUSE AS I MENTIONED IT WAS LIKE 99 PERCENT MEN.

AND THE WHOLE IDEA WAS JUST TO PRESERVE AS MUCH AS THEY POSSIBLY COULD, AND PARTICULARLY THINGS THAT SEEMED UNUSUAL.

YOU KNOW SITES THAT MAYBE HAD DIFFERENT AGRICULTURAL TECHNIQUES THAT PERHAPS THEY HADN'T SEEN BEFORE IN PUEBLO ANCESTORS, TO DO AS MUCH RECORDING OF THOSE SITES AS THEY COULD BEFORE THE WATER CAME TO BURY THEM.

NOW AS MOST PEOPLE KNOW, BECAUSE OF THE LONG TERMED DROUGHT IN THE SOUTHWEST, LAKE POWELL'S WATER LEVELS ARE REALLY SINKING AND SO SOME OF THESE SITES ARE RE-IMMERGING.

>>LORENE: AND ARE THEY PRETTY LEGIBLE STILL?

>>ANNE: SOME STILL ARE, YES, SOME OF THE PETROGLYPHS STILL ARE.

IT KIND OF DEPENDS ON HOW MUCH WAVE ACTION THERE WAS AGAINST THE WALLS, YOU KNOW, HOW MUCH EROSION THERE WAS.

BUT, YEAH, IT IS KIND OF LIKE IN SOME WAYS ARCHEOLOGY GETS A SECOND CHANCE.

>>LORENE: YEAH, OH YES AND THEY ARE GOING IN WITH LIDAR, LIGHT ASSISTED RADAR, YOU KNOW THEY ARE GOING IN TO CAPTURE EVERYTHING THEY CAN.

>>ANNE: THAT'S RIGHT, THAT'S RIGHT.

THE OTHER THING, TALKING ABOUT LEARNING EXPERIENCES, THE OTHER STORY INVOLVES AN ILLEGAL CANNABIS OPERATION, WHICH IS ORIGINALLY DESCRIBED AS A HEMP FARM.

BUT THEN, THERE ARE OTHER THINGS GROWING THERE IN THE CANNABIS FAMILY.

THAT WAS INSPIRED BY A REAL STORY OF AN ENTREPRENEUR I GUESS WE WILL CALL HIM, WHO WAS TRYING TO DO A DEAL WITH THE NAVAJO NATION TO DO A HEMP FARM.

AND AT FIRST THE NATION WAS RECEPTIVE MAYBE BECAUSE YOU KNOW HEMP IS KIND OF A TRADITIONAL PLANT.

>>LORENE: YEAH.

>>ANNE: AND AGRICULTURE IS A TRADITION IN THE NAVAJO NATION.

BUT IT QUICKLY WENT SOUTH, NEIGHBORS STARTED COMPLAINING ABOUT NOISE AND GARBAGE AND PEOPLE SPEEDING AND WATER USE.

BUT THAT IDEA, THAT IDEA FROM REAL LIFE KIND OF GAVE ME THE INSPIRATION FOR THE BERNIE STORY.

>>LORENE: AND DIDN'T THEY HIRE A LOT OF UNDERAGE YOUNG PEOPLE AND PAY THEM... >>ANNE: THEY DID AND PAID THEM IN CASH.

>>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.

>>ANNE: YEAH.

>>LORENE: SO AT THE BEGINNING OF LEGALIZED MARIJUANA AND DEFINITELY EVEN FOR THE BEGINNING OF MEDICAL MARIJUANA, NONE OF THE BANKS WOULD TAKE MARIJUANA RELATED CASH AND THERE WAS A LOT OF IT.

SO THEY WERE ALWAYS AFRAID THEY WERE GOING TO GET ROBBED BECAUSE THEY COULDN'T JUST PUT THE MONEY IN THE BANK AND THEN WRITE A CHECK ON IT.

THEY HAD BUSHELS OF CASH SITTING AROUND, THE POOR DEARS, AND SO... >>ANNE: SO I WAS ACTUALLY ABLE TO KIND OF USE THAT AS A GOOD REASON FOR THEM HAVING A LOT OF SECURITY AT THIS PLACE WHERE BERNIE GOES, WHICH THEN ADDED LIKE AN EXTRA LEVEL OF COMPLICATION TO THE STORY.

>>LORENE: IT ACTUALLY ADDED A LEVEL OF TERROR FOR ME, I MEAN I COULD NOT, I WAS SHORT OF BREATH DURING THAT WHOLE PART WHEN SHE GOES IN UNDERCOVER.

BUT WHAT I WANT TO KNOW, THIS IS PROPRIETARY SECURITY INFORMATION.

YOU CAN'T GOOGLE, HOW DO I PROTECT MY MARIJUANA PLANTATION?

YOU KNOW, HOW DID YOU FIND OUT ABOUT SOME OF THE INTRICACIES OF HOW THEY PROTECT THEIR LAND, THEIR CROP.

I MEAN BECAUSE SOMEONE COULD JUST GO IN AND STEAL IT.

BUT NOT WITH ALL THESE FENCES AND LIGHTS AND DOUBLE GATES.

>>ANNE: RIGHT, RIGHT.

>>LORENE: HOW DID YOU RESEARCH THAT?

>>ANNE: WELL I DO HAVE SOME CONTACTS WHO ARE IN THE BUSINESS.

YOU KNOW, OFF THE RECORD, DON'T GIVE ME ANY ACKNOWLEDGEMENT, BUT THEY WOULD TELL ME A FEW THINGS.

AND THEN IN STATES WHERE MARIJUANA HAS BEEN LEGAL A LITTLE BIT LONGER, IT IS EASIER TO FIND THAT INFORMATION.

AND SO THEN I COULD USE THAT AND JUST KIND OF EXTRAPOLATE AS TO WHAT IT WOULD BE LIKE IF THIS WAS ACTUALLY IN NEW MEXICO.

>>LORENE: YEAH, WELL I TELL YOU, I WAS TERRIFIED FOR BERNIE THAT SHE WOULDN'T GET OUT ALIVE AND THE EVIL OF THESE PEOPLE WHO WERE CLEARLY NOT DOING IT TO MAKE PEOPLE HEALTHY AND WEALTHY AND WISE, BUT WERE DOING IT FOR THE CASH AND WERE RUTHLESS.

SO, BUT WE ARE NOT GIVING ANYTHING AWAY BECAUSE THAT IS KIND OF THEIR REPUTATION.

>>ANNE: AND DO YOU KNOW THAT KIND OF GOES BACK TO THE TITLE, THE BRIDGE IN THE TITLE, TOO.

>>LORENE: YES.

>>ANNE: IF YOU THINK OF SOMETHING LIKE CANNABIS, WHICH CAN HAVE SO MANY BENEFICIAL USES.

>>LORENE: PTSD, ALL SORTS OF THINGS.

>>ANNE: WELL, AND THEY DO USE IT FOR CHILDHOOD EPILEPSY.

THERE IS A RARE KIND OF CHILDHOOD EPILEPSY, A FORM OF CANNABIS THAT IS SPECIALLY CULTIVATED IS ABOUT THE ONLY THING THAT WILL STOP THOSE SEIZURES.

AND I AM SURE THERE ARE MANY OTHER RARE CONDITIONS THAT, YOU KNOW, WITH A LITTLE MORE RESEARCH WILL BE ABLE TO FIND OUT A WAY TO MAKE IT A LITTLE EASIER FOR PEOPLE WHO HAVE THOSE.

>>LORENE: AND I LOVE THAT THAT WAS AN ELEMENT IN THE BOOK, TOO, BECAUSE NOT EVERYONE WAS DOING THIS FOR MONEY.

THERE WERE WONDERFUL DOCTORS TRYING TO FIND CURES YOU KNOW FOR THIS NICHE GROUP OF CHILDREN WHO NEED HELP.

SO, I WANT TO COME BACK TO THE ACTUAL SACRED BRIDGE.

SO, HAS LAKE POWELL DRIED UP ENOUGH THAT YOU COULD SEE, WHAT WAS THE SACRED BRIDGE, THE ACTUAL?

>>ANNE: THAT IS A VERY GOOD QUESTION.

WHEN I WAS THERE WHICH WAS MANY YEARS AGO, THE WATER LEVEL WAS HIGH ENOUGH THAT YOU COULD TAKE A BOAT INTO THE ALCOVE AND WALKING MAYBE A MILE YOU COULD BE RIGHT THERE AT THE FOOT OF RAINBOW BRIDGE.

NOW, THAT THE WATER LEVEL IS LOW THAT DOCK HAS BEEN CLOSED, SO I THINK FOR PEOPLE NOW TO SEE RAINBOW BRIDGE, YOU HAVE TO PLAN ON HIKING AND OF COURSE IT IS HOT AND WINDY.

>>LORENE: ROCKY.

>>ANNE: NOT ALL THE TIME, BUT IT WOULD TAKE A LITTLE MORE DETERMINATION TO SEE IT NOW.

>>LORENE: YEAH.

>>ANNE: NOW THE OTHER WAY TO SEE IT IS TO GET A PERMIT FROM THE NAVAJO NATION AND TO HIKE OVERLAND ON A LOT OF BASICALLY NAVAJO WILDERNESS UNTIL FINALLY YOU GET TO RAINBOW BRIDGE.

SO I THINK THE LOWERING OF LAKE POWELL HAS DECREASED THE VISITORSHIP WHICH IS PROBABLY TO THE RELIEF OF A LOT OF THE TRIBES WHO REALLY HOLD THAT PLACE SACRED.

>>LORENE: WELL, I URGE EVERYONE TO READ THIS AND TO READ YOUR OTHER BOOKS, TOO.

I WANT TO TALK A LITTLE MORE NOW ABOUT ALL THE OUTREACH YOU HAVE.

FIRST OF ALL, IT IS NO SECRET YOU ARE A FRIEND TO LIBRARIES EVEN THIS WEEK YOU DID A PROGRAM WITH THE ELDORADO LIBRARY.

SO IF PEOPLE WANT TO SEE YOU, I LOVE THAT YOU SUPPORT LIBRARIES, IT IS SO CRUCIAL.

>>ANNE: WELL I AM DOING A TALK AT THE FARMINGTON LIBRARY I THINK NEXT WEEK.

AND THEN LATER IN MAY, I AM DOING A TALK FOR THE EAGLE'S NEST LIBRARY WHICH IS ALSO CONNECTED TO A COUPLE OTHER OF THOSE BEAUTIFUL LITTLE LIBRARIES IN NORTHERN NEW MEXICO.

>>LORENE: OH, WONDERFUL.

>>ANNE: I LOVE THAT PART OF THE STATE, I WAS REALLY DELIGHTED TO HAVE THAT INVITATION.

AND, OF COURSE, I LOVE FARMINGTON AND THE FARMINGTON LIBRARY IS ONE OF THE BEST PUBLIC LIBRARIES ANYWHERE.

THE ARCHITECTURE OF IT IS MAGNIFICENT.

>>LORENE: WELL ALSO, DIDN'T THE FORMER MAYOR, TOM TAYLOR, CARVED, HE AND HIS WIFE, CARVED THE BIG GATES FOR ENTERING STORYLAND FOR THE CHILDREN FOR THE LIBRARY.

>>ANNE: THAT'S RIGHT, THAT'S ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.

>>LORENE: IT IS JUST WONDERFUL.

>>ANNE: YEAH.

>>LORENE: BUT YOU ARE ALSO GOING TO BE FEATURED IN THIS EXTRAORDINARY EVENT COMING UP IN SANTA FE, MAY 20 TO 23.

IT IS THE SANTA FE LITERARY FESTIVAL AND I CAN'T BELIEVE THE LINEUP.

I MEAN CLARE HERTEL AND SOME PEOPLE HAVE PUT THIS TOGETHER AND MARGARET ATWOOD, COLSON WHITEHEAD, SANDRA CISNEROS, OUR LOVELY GEORGE R.R.

MARTIN, JOHN GRISHAM, JOY HARJO, THERE WILL BE 30 EVENTS, WALKING TOURS, CULINARY EVENTS.

AND YOU HAVE A SPECIAL PANEL THAT YOU ARE DOING, TELL US ABOUT IT.

>>ANNE: OH I WAS SO THRILLED WHEN CLAIRE ASKED ME.

SHE SAID, "EVERY YEAR WE WOULD LIKE TO HONOR A LEGENDARY NEW MEXICO AUTHOR, AND WE WOULD LIKE TO BEGIN WITH HONORING YOUR FATHER."

SO SHE ASKED ME IF I WOULD TALK TO THE GATHERING FOLKS ABOUT MY DAD AND I SAID, "WELL, I WOULD BE GLAD TO, BUT YOU KNOW THERE IS A NEW BIOGRAPHY OF MY FATHER CALLED, TONY HILLERMAN: A LIFE, THAT WAS WRITTEN BY AN AUTHOR NAMED JAMES MCGRATH MORRIS."

>>LORENE: OUR SUPERB BIOGRAPHER, ABSOLUTELY THE BEST IN NEW MEXICO.

>>ANNE: IT'S A WONDERFUL BOOK.

SO, MCGRATH MORRIS AND I ARE GOING TO BE TALKING ABOUT DAD AND WE WILL BE JOINED BY ANOTHER AUTHOR OF WHOM MY DAD WAS A BIG INFLUENCE, THAT IS CRAIG JOHNSON, WHO LIVES IN WYOMING BUT HE IS COMING.

>>LORENE: WHO WROTE THE LONGMIRE SERIES .

>>ANNE: THAT'S RIGHT THE LONGMIRE SERIES .

HE IS COMING DOWN ESPECIALLY FOR THIS EVENT.

SO I THINK WE WILL HAVE A LOT OF FUN.

>>LORENE: I URGE PEOPLE, YOU ARE NOT GOING TO HAVE A LINEUP LIKE THIS AND SO IF FOR ONE WEEKEND IN MAY YOU COULD GET A YEAR'S WORTH OF LITERARY INSPIRATION.

SO YOU WILL SEE ME AT YOUR WORKSHOP.

>>ANNE: OH GREAT.

I AM GOING TO TRY TO GO TO AS MANY OF THE OTHER ONES AS I CAN.

>>LORENE: I KNOW, I KNOW.

THAT IS WHY IT IS HARD TO GET AN INTERVIEW, BECAUSE EVERYBODY WANTS TO GO TO EACH OTHER'S WORKSHOPS.

SO, I WANT TO TALK WITH YOU ABOUT FILM AND TV OPTIONS BECAUSE THERE IS A NEW PROJECT THAT YOU GOT STARTED AND ALSO IN THIS, NATIVE VOICES ARE FINALLY BEING HEARD AND APPRECIATED.

I DON'T KNOW IF YOU SAW RESERVOIR DOGS, BUT THERE IS A LOT OF NATIVE BOOKS AND FILMS AND TV SO IT IS FINALLY COMING.

AND YOU HAD TO WATCH THE FIRST TV VERSION OF YOUR DAD'S BOOKS WITH ANGLO ACTORS PRETTY MUCH, RIGHT?

>>ANNE: WELL, IT WAS LOU DIAMOND PHILLIPS.

>>LORENE: YEAH, OKAY.

>>ANNE: WHO IS NOT REALLY AN ANGLO BUT YEAH.

>>LORENE: NO, HE ISN'T BUT YEAH.

>>ANNE: HE WAS JOE LEAPHORN, I MEAN JIM CHEE AND THEN WES STUDI.

>>LORENE: WES STUDI WAS GREAT.

>>ANNE: PLAYED JOE LEAPHORN IN HIS MOVIES.

AND THEN FOR LATER MOVIES, ADAM BEACH WHO WAS A NATIVE FROM CANADA.

>>LORENE: GREAT FACE.

>>ANNE: BUT IT WAS DIFFERENT.

IN THIS, WHAT WOULD YOU SAY, THIS VERSION OF IT, ITS AN ALL NATIVE CAST, I MEAN AN ALL NATIVE GROUP OF SCREENWRITERS.

>>LORENE: OH GREAT.

>>ANNE: WHO HAVE COME UP WITH A SCRIPT, SO I THINK THAT WILL MAKE A BIG DIFFERENCE.

AND THEN AN ALL-NATIVE CAST.

AND THEY ARE SETTING THIS BACK IN THE 1970S, SO THAT IN ITSELF SHOULD BE A REALLY INTERESTING SORT OF TWIST ON IT.

>>LORENE: YEAH.

THIS IS BY AMC?

>>ANNE: YES.

>>LORENE: LS THIS THE DARK WIND SERIES?

>>ANNE: THE DARK WINDS .

>>LORENE: WINDS PLURAL.

>>ANNE: YES.

AND THE FIRST SIX ARE BASED ON MY DAD'S BOOKS, THE DARK WIND AND ON LISTENING WOMAN.

THEY SOMEHOW THESE WRITERS HAVE CAREFULLY BLENDED ELEMENTS OF BOTH THOSE STORIES TOGETHER TO DO THESE SIX EPISODES.

>>LORENE: AND YOU ARE WORKING ON A NEW SETTING.

>>ANNE: I AM, I AM WORKING NOW ON BOOK EIGHT, WHICH IS GOING TO BE SET IN THE BEARS EARS AREA OF UTAH, WHICH BORDERS THE VERY NORTHERN MOST PART OF THE NAVAJO NATION.

SO A LOT OF NAVAJO MEDICINE PEOPLE HAVE BEEN GOING TO BEARS EARS FOR YEARS TO GATHER THEIR SACRED PLANTS AND MINERALS AND THINGS THEY NEED FOR THEIR CEREMONIES.

AND BEARS EARS, OF COURSE, ALSO IS A SACRED PLACE TO UTES AMD PAIUTES AND ZUNI AND HOPI AND MANY OF OUR OTHER SOUTHWESTERN TRIBES.

SO I AM USING THAT AS A SETTING.

WHEN I TOOK OVER THE SERIES, I THOUGHT IT WOULD BE REALLY INTERESTING TO INTRODUCE READERS TO PLACES THAT MY DAD HAD NOT WRITTEN ABOUT AND HE HAD NEVER TAKEN READERS UP THERE, SO I AM HAVING A LOT OF FUN WITH IT.

THE AREA IS VERY RICH IN ARCHEOLOGY BUT ALSO IN PALEONTOLOGY.

THERE HAVE BEEN SEVERAL DINOSAURS AND PRE-DINOSAURS FOUND IN THAT AREA THAT HAVE NOT BEEN FOUND ANYWHERE ELSE.

SO IT HAS BEEN KIND OF ON THE CUTTING EDGE OF PALEONTOLOGY SO I AM HAVING FUN KIND OF WEAVING ALL THESE ELEMENTS TOGETHER.

>>LORENE: WELL IT HAS ALSO BEEN A BIT OF A POLITICAL FOOTBALL.

>>ANNE: TRUE.

>>LORENE: THE MONUMENT THAT ACTUALLY SET ASIDE, DO NOT MESS WITH THIS LAND PARK SPACE, WAS VERY LARGE AND THEN UNDER A FORMER PRESIDENT IT WAS SHRUNK.

>>ANNE: RIGHT.

>>LORENE: WITH LITTLE BEAR EARS BECAME EAR BUDS AND THEN, THANK GOODNESS, THEY HAVE BROADENED IT BACK UP BECAUSE IT IS SACRED TO SO MANY NATIVE PEOPLE.

>>ANNE: YEAH.

>>LORENE: AND THEY WERE GOING TO HAVE OIL AND GAS DRILLING ON SACRED LAND AND IT WAS JUST... >>ANNE: AND URANIUM.

>>LORENE: OH YEAH.

>>ANNE: THE AREA IS VERY RICH IN URANIUM.

SO THAT WAS ANOTHER REAL LOBBYING EFFORT AGAINST EXPANDING THE NATIONAL PARK AGAIN.

>>LORENE: YES, WELL IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE YOU WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW ABOUT THIS BOOK, THE SACRED BRIDGE?

>>ANNE: I REALLY LOVE THIS BOOK.

I HAD BEEN WANTING, POOR JIM CHEE IN THE PREVIOUS BOOK, STARGAZER , HAD BASICALLY BEEN RESIGNED TO OFFICE WORK AND HE HAS TO BE BERNIE'S BOSS, SO THEY GET CROSSWAYS A LOT.

SO I WANTED HIM TO KIND OF HAVE A BREAK FROM THAT AND GET OUT TO BE A CRIME SOLVER AGAIN.

AND I REALLY ENJOYED WORKING WITH HIM IN THIS BOOK.

>>LORENE: IN SPEAKING OF BRIDGES, SACRED BRIDGE , SHE WAS ON A SPIRITUAL QUEST AND BERNIE WAS REALLY BUILDING A BRIDGE TO WHAT KIND OF COP SHE WANTED TO BE.

YOU KNOW THE METAPHOR FOR THAT CONNECTION IS JUST ON EVERY LEVEL IN THIS BOOK, IT IS REALLY A MASTERPIECE SO I THINK YOU.

>>ANNE: WELL, THANK YOU.

WELL, BESIDES BEING INSTRUMENTS OF CONNECTIONS, BRIDGES ARE ALSO INSTRUMENTS OF TRANSITION.

>>LORENE: YEAH.

>>ANNE: AND SO THAT WAS ONE THING THAT I WAS THINKING OF WHEN I FINALLY SETTLED ON THAT TITLE, THAT BOTH OF THESE CHARACTERS ARE IN A STATE OF TRANSITION.

>>LORENE: YEAH.

>>ANNE: AND SO IT WAS NICE TO HAVE THE WORD BRIDGE TO KIND OF REMIND MYSELF AND REMIND READERS OF THAT.

>>LORENE: YOU BET, YOU BET.

WELL I AM SO GRATEFUL TO YOU.

OUR GUEST TODAY IS ANNE HILLERMAN.

WE HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT HER NEW BOOK, BUT ALL OF HER OTHER WORKS ARE JUST WONDERFUL TO HEAR YOU, OH WAIT, DO WE HAVE TIME TO TELL THE STORY ABOUT TONY AND THE HOMELESS MAN?

>>ANNE: OH, OF COURSE.

OKAY.

>>LORENE: THIS IS SUCH A GOOD STORY.

OKAY.

>>ANNE: SO MY DAD LOVED TALKING, TALKING ABOUT HIS WORK AND TALKING ABOUT HIS CHARACTERS, AS DO I.

AND HE WAS INVITED ONCE TO DO A TALK IN FORT WORTH AND THIS WAS BACK IN THE DAYS OF BIG AUTHOR EVENTS, SO THESE PEOPLE WHO ARE HOSTING HIM SENT A DRIVER AND THEY PICKED HIM UP AT THE AIRPORT AND THEY ARE DRIVING HIM TO THE EVENT VENUE.

AND DAD SEES A HOMELESS GUY ALONG THE ROAD AND HE SAYS TO THE DRIVER, "PULL OVER PLEASE."

SO SHE PULLS OVER AND DAD GETS OUT AND GIVES THE GUY, I DON'T KNOW, FIVE BUCKS OR TWENTY BUCKS AND THE WOMAN WHO WAS THE ESCORT, SAID, "DO YOU KNOW WHO THIS IS?"

AND THE GUY SAYS, "NO."

AND SHE SAYS, "THIS IS TONY HILLERMAN."

AND THE GUY SAYS, "TONY HILLERMAN!

I'VE READ ALL YOUR BOOKS!"

>>LORENE: THE REACH OF THE HILLERMAN CLAN IS EVERYWHERE.

>>ANNE: YEAH.

>>LORENE: I AM SO GLAD WE GOT THAT IN.

THANK YOU, ANNE HILLERMAN, OUR GUEST.

>>ANNE: THANK YOU, LORENE.

IT HAS BEEN A PLEASURE.

>>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS AND I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .

REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM