>> From WXXI News.

This is Connections.

I'm Evan Dawson.

Our connection this hour was made on the day that a man named Harry had to put his dog Penny down for the better part of two decades, Harry had learned lessons from Penny about love, about small but significant interactions, and now about dying, about loss.

This is the seed of a new graphic memoir from Harry Bliss called You Can Never Die.

Bliss is a cover artist for The New Yorker magazine.

He's been an internationally syndicated cartoonist.

You have almost certainly come across his work or his family's work as artists.

There are a lot of artists in the Bliss family, and they're from Rochester.

That initial premise of the graphic memoir is visceral.

Anyone who has loved a pet knows the meaning of that title.

You can never die.

To love a pet is to know that one day you will mourn them.

It's the ultimate unfairness.

And yet we do it.

And then we do it again.

But the book is gleaned from Harry's journal entries, and it's about more than Penny his dog.

He writes the following in the book's introduction, which he calls the book's intention.

I'll quote now.

I started keeping a journal because I didn't want to forget things.

There came a point in my life when I realized that memory is all we have.

Our life consists of our memories.

If we cannot make some account of these memories, contextualize them within our own framework, how will we know how and why they happened?

As I get older, my memory slips.

Thus the need for me to record this curious existence.

I've still yet to make any sense of.

There are no facts in this life.

It's all a mystery.

That's a fact.

My journal memories provide clues to the mystery.

I can go back to a journal and reflect on a dream.

I had a dreadful restaurant experience, a book I loved, a beautiful poop of pennies, a dead bird.

I found a sore neck from watching a barred owl in a tree.

A Modigliani nude, my wife's eyes, a snowfall.

All clues to life's intention, end quote.

If Harry Bliss had just written a book about what it is like to lose a dog, it would be instantly relatable.

And it is.

But his life is so interesting.

This is a man who's got a lot to share about some really fascinating themes.

Ideas about how we treat other people from it.

And then we're going to talk about his experiences in the world.

So a lot to share.

Harry Bliss, by the way, is coming back to Rochester for an event on Saturday, May 30th.

It's a book signing at Bleak House Books in Honeoye Falls, and we'll tell you about that coming up.

But first, he is our guest on Connections and Harry Bliss.

It's an honor to have you.

Thank you for making time for the program today.

>> It's great to be here.

Evan.

Thank you so much and I'm so glad you read that.

It means a lot to me.

>> Well, the producer, Megan and I were talking about, um, you know, we have lost dogs, and a lot of people listening have lost.

Lost the love, the love of a pet.

And that creates a hole in the heart that, um, I don't know that you ever really heal from.

Um, and I just want to start by saying that your account of Penny and the loss of it is the most really, truly, bracingly honest piece of writing in that realm that I've, I've ever encountered.

And I want to start by asking you why you decided to share it publicly.

>> Well, um, initially I needed to write it down for me.

You know, I needed to process it somehow.

Um, and the reason to share it publicly, um, was because I knew there were other people out there who felt the same way.

And that's part of the whole intimacy connection thing.

Um, yeah, that's the way I think most artists, at the end of the day want to connect with someone, even if they live in the middle of nowhere.

>> And I do want to sort of flag for the audience here.

Um, I've already gotten an email and I am aware that there are some listeners who just feel like they can't do it.

They cannot listen to a conversation about the loss of a dog.

And I want to say, I, I understand that I empathize with that this entire hour is not just about Penny and the loss of a dog.

Um, you know, thankfully this book is so rich and incredible stories we couldn't possibly, uh, get through all of it, but, um, maybe we should begin with Rochester because I've seen your covers on The New Yorker for years.

I'm an avid New Yorker reader.

I, I was really surprised when bleak House reached out and said, oh, you know, do you know Harry is from from Rochester?

I said, I had no idea this connection existed.

And it turns out you had a family full of artists.

So take me back and take the listeners back a little bit to your early memories of Rochester, and a little bit of a description about the artists in your family.

If you could.

>> Yeah.

And it's true what you just said about the book.

It's I find it both hilarious, very raw.

And yes, there is grief that is weaved throughout it, but it's also very I think it's a very funny book.

Oh yeah.

And, um, so you can take that away with it.

But um, Rochester man, I was just thinking about, uh, this when we got on here and my dad was a graphic designer.

My uncles were both illustrators.

My, my cousins, Phil and Jim were illustrators.

My sister's a painter.

Um, you know, my brother Charlie and my brother John, who was an educator for many years in the Rochester School District, has actually been doing some cartooning lately.

And he cracks me up because he does one every morning.

But, um, uh, in his retirement, um, you know, I have really fond memories of Henrietta specifically and, uh, writing.

I went to James Berry High School for a bit, and I went to McQuaid for a year.

And those are all kind of kind of delineated in the book, in various essays, but everybody worked for Kodak, and we were all free range kids.

You know, we, you know, our parents at any given time of day or night, had no idea where we were.

And it was kind of glorious in a way.

Um, I worked at Salinas Pizza and Carvel, both of which I got fired from.

And.

>> Uh.

>> Yeah, it's, you know, Don and Bob, you name it.

You know, there's, I, it's just I had, I have such fond memories of growing up in Rochester.

Um, and it seems to be on the rise.

It seems to be like, I don't know, coming alive in some ways.

Maybe I'm wrong.

Every time my brother sends me, uh, images and so on, he'll go to the Genesee Brewery Company.

I'm like, that looks really beautiful down there.

>> There's a lot happening.

I mean, like, there's, uh.

Yeah, I'm, I'm a fan.

We've got the best NPR member station in the country.

There's a lot of good things cooking.

Um, but of course, it's changed in so many ways.

And, um, you know, in one obvious way or, you know, the big anchor employers that are mostly gone.

And I think there's a, I'm trying to remember, there's, was it in the drugstore?

There's a scene from your childhood where you, um, where you realized, I think it was an uncle who said, I drew that.

I mean, there's the idea of, can you just can you tell that story?

If I'm remembering that.

Yeah, >> Yeah, there was a little.

It was early strip malls had just come on the scene back when I was, you know, eight, I don't remember.

This would have been, uh, 72, maybe.

But we went up to the strip mall and in this little, I think it was called key drugs, little drugstore.

And, uh, not far from suburban liquor.

And my dad, who at the time was a graphic designer and did work for French's Mustard and one of his little, uh, characters was drawn on a cardboard kind of, I think French's mustard, um, sign.

And he pointed pointed that out to me kind of nonchalantly and said, I did that.

And I was so proud, you know, I looked up at it and thought, wow, that's really cool that my dad's artwork is here in this little drugstore.

So that was kind of a profound little moment for me.

>> But it wasn't inevitable that you'd be an artist.

I mean, I certainly obviously there's a lot of art in your family and with your dad, and you have these cool stories about how your friends would come come over and you could almost on command ask your dad to draw, you know, superhero characters.

And he was fast and amazing with it.

And I mean, totally.

Um, and I'm painting this really beautiful, bucolic picture of you and your dad, but it wasn't always that way.

And we'll talk about that too.

But, um, but can you describe a little bit about when you did know that, that you were going to, that art was going to be part of your future?

>> Yeah.

There is a moment in an essay in the book where I write called epiphany, and I did have a just a pure epiphany.

One morning I spent the night, uh, staying up and drawing my feet while, uh, a little tiny, uh, black and white.

Panasonic television played old movies.

And ultimately, I think it played the national anthem.

I think that happened after a certain amount of time, but I stayed up all night and drew my feet and walked out in the early kind of dawn, um, before anyone was up in the house and walked up to my Winslow hi Winslow Elementary School, where I went to elementary school.

And I just felt great, you know, I just thought this thing that I just did was sublime.

You know, it was a profound thing to spend all those hours.

Uh, articulating my feet.

It was a bit of a meditation.

And it was also, um, I was obsessed at the time with Impressionism and drawing and the academics of France.

And part of that's because of my parents.

But part of that was me.

I was so obsessed with, uh, art books and Toulouse-Lautrec, Modigliani, Picasso.

I was in it.

I was really in it.

Um, but when I went to the school, I looked out at 6 a.m.

At the city of Rochester.

You can see the city of Rochester from, from, uh, the fields on Winslow or Webster, whatever.

And I said this.

I'm literally said to myself, I'm getting out of here.

I'm going to be an artist.

It's really cool.

>> And there's at least one kind of brief aside in the book about how you didn't get a whole lot of out of art classes, but you certainly learned a lot from your family members.

Can I do you mind if I just ask briefly?

Um, do you still feel some disdain for art classes as art taught to rigidly and maybe coupled with that as my my own theory of art, because I am not I am not capable of drawing really at all.

I have a twin brother who's outstanding and my twin brother was an outstanding artist from the jump when I couldn't do it.

So I've always thought, I don't think an art class could help me.

I think it's inherent.

I think it's either in you or it's not.

I mean, how much how much of that is true?

>> Yeah, that's a great question.

And it's an argument that I have and have had with my mom.

In fact, my mom thought it was genetic.

She was kind of convinced of that and possibly I know that when I was a young kid in, you know, 6 or 7, I wasn't naturally gifted.

Um, like my siblings, like Charlie and my older brother Charlie.

Or there was another, uh, there was a few people, there were a few people in our neighborhood.

Um, Dave Scheffler and, uh, Greg Lesaux.

These kids were good.

I mean, they had inherent talent.

Um, I didn't necessarily have that, so I had to work at it.

Um, was it lying dormant in me all those years?

I don't know, I don't have the answer to that, but I know that I worked really hard at developing the skills that I now have, you know, and I'm still developing them.

So I it's a good question that I don't know.

I don't have the answer to that.

>> One of the really cool things about your art that I have noticed in the, some of the interviews you've done about this book is interviewers pick up this graphic memoir, and they've probably seen, you know, your art on The New Yorker or maybe with Steve Martin, which we'll talk about your partnership with Steve Martin.

And, you know, those cartoons are are cheeky, funny, uh, cutting, but you have a range as an artist and interviewers when they, when they kind of see the full breadth of your work, they're going like, whoa, cartoonist.

Like, where did this come from?

You could have done a lot more.

And I think one of the valuable insights that I've gained listening to you talk about this, and I wonder if you could do this for our audience, is to describe why you chose to be a cartoonist.

When you do have range, you could have done other things as an artist, but you felt that there was a value in the challenge of doing what you have done.

>> Another great question.

Uh, exactly right.

And I think that cartooning is just it's difficult.

It's a very difficult thing to do.

It's based on ideas.

Um, and sometimes it's based on, uh, sort of universal ideas and you have to find a way to contort that and twist it.

You could take the tropes of the desert island or, you know, the people up in heaven.

There are many of them.

Uh, that became a real challenge for me.

And if you look back in at the history of cartooning, most of those great cartoonists were academically trained.

Um, maybe not in academy, like a European style academy, but they could draw beautifully.

Um, even someone like Gary Larson, if you look at Gary Larson's work, you can see he can draw really well.

There's a, there's, it's highly stylized, but, um, you know, I didn't want I mean, I like the idea of being a painter, but it's more fun being a cartoonist.

It's just so much fun to.

I was just sitting here drawing in my journal now before we got on, and I just came up with a cartoon idea in my journal and I laughed.

Now I'm drawing and laughing so it wouldn't be the case if I were doing some giant oil painting.

If I were a fine artist, I may not be laughing.

And laughter is so important.

>> Absolutely.

>> It's so important.

>> But to be fair, I mean, you've said that there really isn't anything that you found that you can't draw.

I mean, is there anything in that category where you go, look, this is the one thing I can't do this thing.

>> I'm really bad at.

Uh, I can't draw horses, you know, horses.

And I'm not particularly I'm not particularly good at caricatures, which is kind of ironic because that's what my mom back in the day, my mom used to go, she used to tell me, you should go down to the shore and do caricatures of people.

You'll get $25 a piece for those.

You'll come home with $100.

But I'm not good at caricatures or drawing horses.

But I can draw.

Um.

I can draw everything else.

And the my ability, to draw comes from a deep observation.

And the, the way of deconstructing things.

And that comes with, um, I don't want to get too deep into this, but it's, it's a philosophy that I've stumbled upon and it's slow.

It's being slow and, and finding the nuance in everything.

Um, that's sort of, um, alchemy of being really focused on the things around you and curious about them in an analytical way has made me a better draftsman for sure.

>> This next question comes with a risk because it's not great audio content.

And we've got a video, a visual content.

Of course we're on YouTube, but it's not great radio.

When you say, what's your favorite cartoon that you've drawn?

Can you describe it when you can't really show it?

But I do wonder in the same way that if I think of my favorite comedy artist, you know, favorite lines or jokes, not just because I think they're really smart, but because they, I think they really observe something about us in a, in a short, terse, powerful way.

Do you have a frame or two that you've created that stand out that you go, yeah, that was top of the game.

>> You know what I have?

I have quite a few.

I know that sounds arrogant, but.

>> I know absolutely not.

No.

>> I, I will look through my cartoons and laugh out loud.

Um, there was and some of the ones that I like the most, perhaps are the ones that are the most kind of irreverent, um, there was one that I did that had a little boy, a little girl being kind of reprimanded in class and her teacher's kind of scolding her a little bit.

And the other students are there.

And next to her is a little boy who's crying and he has his hands, his hand sort of nursing his cheek.

And the teacher says to the girl, if you're happy and you know it, clap your hands.

Rachel.

Not slap Sam.

It's just so silly and stupid, but it really makes me laugh because, well, it's just AI could never come up with that.

>> Lesson.

You know how hard I have to work not to bring up AI in every conversation lately, because I know our audience probably gets a little tired of it, and we literally yesterday had, um, the head of a, poet, a a poetry publisher company.

We had a musician and we had the head of Writers & Books in Rochester, and we were talking about how we as consumers, you know, where should the lines be with AI in art?

And so just because you brought it up, or I'm only going to do this once and I'll get out of the way.

Sure.

Um, does AI have any place in art or should it?

I mean, of course it's going to.

I mean, I feel like it's sort of inevitable, but, but where do you how do you see it?

See, it's existence and its and its effect.

>> Yeah.

It's here to stay.

And it's, it's a again, it's one of those things that I think it's very nuanced, like everything.

And I think that's the.

I'll talk about nuance, slowing down and finding nuance in everything, but which most people do not do.

Um, you know, I don't use AI except for obviously I use AI when I ask Siri something or if I, you know, if I ask for a bio on somebody and, and it's helpful in a way.

And I was just reading lately about, uh, the medicine and how AI can improve, uh, medicine.

And that's wonderful.

But in terms of art, you know, it all looks the same to me when I see AI generated art, it's kind of boring.

It's, um, but I've used AI in the past to like, develop a sketch.

I'll put in like a very loose sketch and maybe I'll, it'll be the grim Reaper and he's, uh, out to dinner with an old woman.

And this will be really loose.

And then there's a waiter there, and I'll put in the caption in the speech balloon, very roughly in the.

And the Grim Reaper will say, uh, nothing for me.

She'll have the blowfish, which of course kills you.

So I will put a really rough version of that into AI, and then AI will spit out this kind of comprehensive version of that.

For me, in which I can then decipher some of the drawing problems when I then go to my own version of a finish for that.

So in that way, it's kind of a nice little intermediate, uh, aid to help me with some drawing issues.

>> Okay.

Fair enough.

>> That's the only reason.

That's the only way I use it.

How about I just said I a, I use it, never mind.

>> How about a guy with a gun and the grim reaper holding the scythe?

And, you know, the line.

Uh oh, you brought a knife to a gunfight.

I mean, there's just.

>> That's a Steve Martin, you know, that's a Steve Martin cartoon.

>> That is, I. Know that I do I that was I saw that in the in the conversation you guys did with Mo Rocca.

I loved that.

Um.

>> Well, you know, I have to interject because that is actually.

Wait, was that Steve's or my wife?

No, that was I don't remember if that was Steve because my wife was with me when we were with Steve, when they were both back to.

They the thing about Steve Martin is he works in the moment.

Like if there's a cartoon we're working on, he'll literally just.

How about this?

Or, or this?

And he whittles it down.

And I think at some point my wife chimed in and helped to develop that caption so.

>> Well, it is a great one.

And let me reset for our audience because this conversation is going in a lot of different directions.

And I knew it would if you if you pick up Harry Bliss book, um, it can't help but do that.

Uh, Harry Bliss is my guest.

He is a longtime cartoonist, one of the great cartoonists in this country.

He's been a cover artist for The New Yorker.

He's done projects with people like Steve Martin, who we were just talking about, which we'll talk more about coming up.

Um, and his new graphic memoir is called You Can Never Die.

And the seed of that, as we've been describing it, is the loss of his beloved dog, Penny.

But it's, it's also a really the story of, of his life growing up in Rochester and where his life and his travels have taken him and the lessons he's learned, it's going to be one of my favorite books that we feature on this program this year.

There's no doubt about it.

It's such a good book.

Not just because Harry's obviously a great cartoonist.

He's a very, very insightful writer.

And, um, the prose is just as good as as the art, which was a surprise to me.

So there's an event coming up two Saturdays from now, May 30th at Bleak House Books in Honeoye Falls.

It's a 3 p.m.

Event in the afternoon.

Harry will be there signing books.

You don't have to register in advance.

Should be plenty of parking.

They would love to see you there.

Harry.

You want to say just something briefly about independent booksellers and places like like the one you're going to in Honeoye Falls.

>> Uh, I love them all.

Are you kidding me?

I grew up in bookstores.

I have to, I'm addicted to bookstores.

So, uh, yeah, I love them.

Support them.

Go, for God's sake.

And your libraries as well.

Support your libraries.

>> Uh, you have a love of a movie that I routinely tell people.

There's one movie that if you've never seen whatever you're doing tonight or whatever you're doing this weekend, watch Defending Your Life.

It's maybe my favorite movie and it's the easiest recommendation I can give to people because I know that they will love it.

I've never had never recommended someone say, go see Defending Your Life and they go, you know, I watched it and it was kind of a, uh, it's, it's really an outstanding movie.

But you reference a scene from the movie and I'm going to describe it a little bit because I think it really matters to help contextualize some of your relationship with your father and your parents and your, your upbringing.

There's a scene in the movie in which Albert Brooks is character.

They're reviewing his life after he has died in a kind of a purgatory called Judgment City.

And, you know, ostensibly it's a trial about fear.

Did you live your life with or without fear?

But it's also an examination of of what human beings go through.

And they they look at a scene in which he was literally a baby, barely a toddler.

And, um, he's in his crib and his parents are screaming at each other.

And he, he starts to cry.

And his parents realize that they're arguing has affected him that way.

And they stop and they embrace.

And that's just what you see there.

And it's not easy for Albert Brooks character to see that in the trial, but it's also very relatable for people who've had, you know, volatile parents, maybe to euphemize you, you describe, um, a scene in which your parents, I mean, there, obviously there's a lot of, I would say strife with your parents, but can you describe why you referenced that scene and what it maybe as you look back now, I was surprised that you have gone through a lot of watching your parents argue and a lot of strife and frankly, a lot of physical abuse, I would say.

But you also have empathy for your parents in ways.

Now that that surprised me.

So can you describe a little bit of that?

>> Yeah.

Uh, exactly that scene when I saw the movie and he's a great movie.

I'm such a huge Albert Brooks fan.

Um, but when I saw the movie in theaters, it really hit me.

It was very emotional for me.

And in much the same way, there's another film, uh, based on Tobias Wolff Wolff's book called This Boy's Life.

Um, and, uh, it was with Robert De Niro and Leonardo DiCaprio and some of the scenes.

And I can't watch the movie anymore because it just, it's a, it's a real trigger for me.

And I think what it is, is essentially, um, it's PTSD.

I mean, that's what it is.

It triggers me and, uh, uh, I have to, I kind of, you know, become like a cowering inside.

At least I'm cowering and I need to get the hell out of there.

That's why I can't be around noise.

And that's kind of why I moved to the country.

It became worse and worse over the years.

But you're right.

I found empathy and I have immense empathy, um, for my parents, um, for what they had to put up with.

I mean, because, you know, like I write in the book, they had, it's not easy raising four kids in the 70s on a graphic designer salary.

Uh, and I, you know, my mother had to put up with my father.

And again, a lot of this you'll read in the book and you'll see the kind of people they they were, but they, um, they gave us a lot, you know, they gave us art.

Uh, my father would often stop by the side of the road, you know, on, on the way to through West Henrietta or somewhere.

Uh, and he would stop and pull up, pull off to the side and tell us, not tell us, but in a kind of loving way.

Look at that sunset.

Look at the way the clouds are moving across that the top of that barn.

And it was just so beautiful.

So and I also talk about my father painting, um, in his studio in the mudroom in Henrietta and coming in there after being half baked from my friend's house and sitting down in the chair and watching him paint and listening to Frank Sinatra, that was a profound thing.

It was beautiful to watch, you know, he was calm and, um, he wasn't angry.

Similarly with my mom again, coming in from my friend's house, half baked still, I would go into the little TV room and sit with my mom, and she would watch Charlie Rose, and we would sit there together and, uh, it was a very calm thing.

And we talked about the guests.

And so it's complicated, like you talked about memory.

It's really interesting thing because in the book, I'm hard on my parents, but after the books published and now that they're they're not here anymore, I miss them terribly.

So go figure.

>> Yeah, I, I, you know, as the reader, I don't I'm not in your shoes, so I can't carry the empathy that you have.

But I felt some anger on your behalf.

Um, oh, sure.

You know, it's not a one off.

I mean, the, the behavior of your father and how difficult that was.

And you described them being very, very different people, your father from a rural area, your mom, more of a people person, maybe their personalities didn't mesh, maybe their needs or desires for life were very, very different, you know, but I was still like shouting.

And they're like, well, you still have a responsibility to provide some sense of stability.

And I felt for you in that way.

And then you describe how, I don't know if you connect it this way, Harry, but I was floored when you wrote the story of Marcie.

Your own story of becoming a bully.

>> Mhm.

>> Is that because of what happened with your dad?

Do you think.

>>, you know, I have so much shame around that.

I mean, when I wrote when I wrote this book, over the course of I don't know how long it took me 2 or 2 years, I guess.

But when I, when I wrote that essay about Marcie, I had, I really came clean.

And I think in the whole book I come clean.

There's no other way to write a memoir, really, but the Marcie thing.

Um, yeah, I have real shame around that.

And I don't know, uh, for sure, but I have a pretty good feeling that the reason I bullied that boy was, and I write about this in the book is I needed somehow some way to control my life because so much of it was out of control at that point.

Um, and when you're a bully, you can control someone.

You can make them feel frightened.

Um, it's horrible.

It's a horrible, horrible corner to be sort of backed into, in my case, um, and in Marcie's case, um, but fortunately it was a one off for me.

I didn't, I, I had a, again, a sort of an epiphany when his, his father came up to me one afternoon and saw me bullying him and just whispered in my ear as he leaned down to pick his son up, he said, don't ever touch my boy again.

And then I went back to my room and cried for ten minutes because I had this moment where I thought, My God, you know, what were you doing for this boy?

He has a mother and a father and a brother and people who love him.

How can you do that?

How can you make him feel that way?

So, you know, I'd speak to it now with with still shame.

Um, but it happened.

It was, it was part of my experience.

>> I read that, that short entry there, hoping that there would be kind of a, a denouement, some kind of happy bow on it years later.

And you never got that with him, did you?

>> No, no.

I wish.

>> Um, but there is another story about a different boy.

And I think this was a different this is Charlie.

Um, yeah.

So this story is really, really powerful to me to here's a story of you being at McQuaid.

So you end up going to McQuaid Jesuit for a year, right?

>> Correct.

>> So you go to McQuaid and, you know, they end up, um, stereotypical.

They're going they're going to ask you to pray for somebody, but I want you to go back before we you talk about who you decided to pray for.

You got to tell us about Charlie and not just your reaction, but the reaction of the class to Charlie, which I thought was so interesting.

>> Yeah.

Well, I went from a Sperry High School, um, and to McQuaid Jesuit.

And the thing I learned at McQuaid was empathy.

I mean, it was really kind of the first display of empathy I've ever had ever seen, really, other than movies, perhaps.

But in my waking life and, uh, or in my real life, I guess.

Um, but Charlie had a great stammer in class and, uh, in theology class, you had to get up, you know, in front of class.

And when the first day of class and tell the class who you are and what your parents did.

Well, actually, what your father, they didn't say.

They didn't ask what your mother did for a living and where you're from.

And so each, each student got up and said, uh, their words.

And I just started sweating because I knew Charlie had a, had a real severe stammer.

And when he got up there, he really struggled.

I mean, it was really hard to sit through, but, um, then a student behind him, um, kind of leaned forward as he was struggling and said, take it easy, Charlie.

We're all here with you.

>> I love that, and you're sorry.

>> Yeah, it's it's a tough one to get through.

>> Yeah, yeah.

And but you're, you're blunt and you're, you're all of your writing is blunt.

It's very direct.

And you say that you did not believe that that reaction from the students would have happened in, in a public school at the time.

>> Yeah.

I'm pretty sure in a public school, they would have torn to pieces.

Um, again, I'm speculating.

I don't I don't know for sure.

Maybe not, but I'm my, my instinct is, is that public school back then was like prison.

Um, so I, I'm not sure.

Well, maybe there's empathy in prison.

I don't I'm worried about bad mouthing prisons or public schools.

So I don't want to say that I don't know anymore.

I just know that this was a unique experience that I had at a Catholic school.

Um, and I'm technically I'm Jewish, so I was probably one of three Jewish kids in the whole school.

But it was a beautiful thing to witness.

And I took that.

I took that lesson with me for the rest of my life.

It, it had a profound effect on me.

Profound.

>> Um, yeah, I don't know.

I don't think, by the way, this invalidates like your progressive politics card, just because you have a memory of being in a private school that had a beautiful reaction there, it was just life, man.

Um, but if you don't mind, I'm just going to read about your decision to, to prayer here to pray.

Uh, and, uh, you say we, uh, we all walk through the darkened halls of residences and entered a small, beautiful wood chapel with soft lighting coming through long stained glass windows.

I have a clear memory of how taken I was with those wonderful depictions of biblical scenes.

Our teacher asked us all to find a place to sit and be with our thoughts.

For a moment I was nervous as usual, but after a few minutes of quiet, I found myself entering a sort of meditation long before I'd ever heard the word meditation.

I surprised myself and managed to focus my attention on various people in my life.

I thought, who should I pray for?

I considered my grandparents, but I didn't really know them very well, and I held resentment for the corduroy pants they sent me every year for my birthday.

I thought about my own parents and my siblings, but that felt too easy.

I wanted to find something or someone unique to pray for.

It didn't take me too long to find the right person.

He was sitting in front of me.

My thoughts found Charlie.

I just love that, Harry.

I mean, I understand why you get emotional because when you think about the capacity for for pain and suffering that that human beings cause in this world, everything from war to greed and suffering.

And then you think about how really beautiful not only life can be, but children can be to each other.

Um, yeah, it's heavy.

That that's awesome.

That is a great piece of writing and a beautiful story.

And I'm just grateful you put it in the book.

>> Thank you.

Thank you, Evan, I appreciate that.

>> Uh, Harry Bliss, my guest.

We got to take our only break of the hour.

He is, uh, he's got a new memoir.

It's a graphic memoir.

Um, and it is about a lot of things we've been talking about.

We barely even talked about Penny.

So we'll talk about Penny a little bit here.

Um, the book is called You Can Never Die.

And, uh, he lost his wonderful dog Penny, but it's about more than Penny.

It's about his life growing up in Rochester.

It's about lessons he learned.

I hope we can get time to talk a little bit about how he learned to deal with the mob.

I hope we can talk about a little bit about working with Steve Martin and and everything else that's still on his plate.

So let's take this short break.

You can meet Harry Bliss two Saturdays from now at Bleak House Books in Honeoye Falls.

They've got a 3 p.m.

Book signing on the last Saturday of this month with Harry Bliss.

We'll come right back.

Coming up in our second hour, we sit down with three local high school students who just got back from Houston.

They traveled to NASA to meet with astronauts, and they're part of a program that NASA has in 34 states, in which they asked students to help create hardware for the International Space Station and for space exploration.

And it actually works.

We're going to talk about what those students have been learning next.

Our.

>> Support for your public radio station comes from our members and from bond, Chinook and King, a multi practice law firm in Rochester with offices across New York State serving business, health care and educational institutions online at be sk.com and Mary Cariola, center, proud supporter of Connections with Evan Dawson believing an informed and engaged community is a connected one, Mary cariola.org.

>> This is Connections.

I'm Evan Dawson.

Um.

I promised we wouldn't linger too long on the loss of a dog, and some listeners have already told us, I can't, I can't do this, I can't do this.

And I get it.

I'm the kind of guy who's like, I can watch a movie, I can watch an action movie, and I don't care if every character gets killed, but if you kill a dog, this movie is over for me, I get it.

Um, we all have animals in our lives that have become real family, and the cruelest part of it is knowing that you may, you are likely eventually to lose them.

And so that was the story of Penny.

Just briefly describe for the audience, um, what kind of dog Penny was and maybe a little bit about your relationship with Penny.

>> She was a mini poodle, kind of an apricot colored mini poodle.

And she was initially my wife's dog.

And when we met, uh, she was Penny was six months old when I met my wife.

So she lived for 17 years.

And, uh, you know, she was an amazing animal.

Um, she very sweet, um, hilarious.

And she almost.

I know there's an essay in the, in the book where we talk, I talk about or write about Penny almost dying, you know, after, just after I met my wife, she had a very rare, um, immune system disorder and where her white blood cells were not working and she almost died.

She was literally on death's door.

The vet said, I think you should consider putting her down.

And my wife insisted on steroids.

The last kind of the last resort.

After various blood transfusions and overnights at the emergency vet.

Um, and it worked.

It worked.

So Penny was on steroids for about a year after that.

And it was hilarious because she became very aggressive on steroids.

And she even caught a mouse, which was, you know, amazing.

>> Um, um, we lost our dog a year ago.

Oh,,.

>> I hear you, I hear you, I'm with you.

It's so hard, right?

It's hard.

I I'm, I'm with you.

Yeah.

>> Man, I could have talked about anything in your stupid book, but this.

>> You got this.

>> I, I even googled at the time, what is the oldest age a dog has ever lived?

Because our dog was was only nine, which was not enough.

>> Yeah.

>> And the answer was 20.

I was like, no way, it's got to be.

I, I was like, got to be 30.

Like, no, this is not cats.

We're talking about like, so 17 is 17 is really beautiful, man.

Like I really, I'm so I feel for you.

But like that is I'm so happy that you had this time with her.

>> Yeah, yeah.

Nine is I, I feel I feel your pain and I think that Evan you know, my current dog, uh, junior who's right next to me now.

Um, he's just a, in some ways he's, I'm closer to him than I was with Penny.

So.

And he's a standard Aussie shepherd.

And, you know, they don't necessarily live, you know, 1012 maybe.

So I know that's coming.

But I will say this about losing a dog.

And for people out there who find it too difficult.

And first of all, cathartic and crying over the loss of your dog is it's really a wonderful thing to do because there's so much love in the tears.

I mean, when you're when you're crying, it's an outpouring of, of how much you love the animal.

So, and it's a reaffirmation.

It's, you're bringing yourself closer to the animal.

So yeah, it's, um, it's a difficult thing.

And when Penny passed, um, I write an essay about, um, I hate this expression, but putting her down.

>> Yeah, I know that's.

Yeah.

Yep.

>> I didn't, but when I was there, uh, I wailed, I wailed in a way that I've never cried in my life.

It was a huge outpouring.

And, um, it was a breakthrough.

It was like a breakthrough of, I don't know what happened, but I changed, you know, after that.

It was shortly thereafter that when I slowed down more and I became even more empathetic and, um, became more, uh, loving as a, you know, so these animals that we have, they teach us how to be better.

And that's fantastic.

And I'll always have a dog.

I won't stop getting dogs.

As difficult as it is to lose a dog, I will continue to have a dog in my life.

Uh, just because of what they teach me.

>> I wish I had the source of this not that long ago I read someone said something like, I can't understand.

People don't get dogs.

This is like one of the what the great evolutionary wins of of being on earth is you have this incredible species that just wants to love you and be devoted to you.

And like of all the pain and suffering we get in life, like you can have that if you choose it.

And I, I totally get it.

But I also know Harry, I understand why people, when they go through this loss, they go, I like, I can't do it again.

Um, sure.

And, and here you are, here you are.

And, um, and you've got a different and beautiful relationship with junior and you're doing it again.

>> Yeah.

Yeah.

It's I write about that in the book, you know, junior and getting junior.

And it was, you know, my wife and I were allergic to junior.

So I had my allergies have since dissipated over time.

That is a thing that happens, you know, um, and my wife too, although she takes an allergy pill every morning, but, um, and now she worships him.

It's ridiculous.

It's hilarious.

You know, she's, you know, telling me, you know, what he likes.

I'm like, I know what the I know what your likes, but, um, he's fantastic.

You know, he's just, um, I, you know, I don't know if I've become a bit more, you know, misanthropic over the years, I probably have.

And part of that is because I feel like in general, people are, I think they're a little less kind.

Uh, they're a little, uh, motivated by material things and nature's taking a back seat to their lives.

And I can go for, go for a walk in the woods with junior.

And, you know, it's a, it's a beautiful experience.

Meditation.

He loves it, I love it.

And, uh, yeah, if people say they're not going to get another dog, get another dog, it gets you out of the house.

I mean, if anything, it's good for your health.

You know, you go for a walk every morning.

I can't tell you how many times, you know, it's 630 in the morning.

I get up and go for a walk with him, and there's no one out on the street here.

I mean, right now I'm in Burlington, Vermont, and it's fantastic.

The sun's coming up.

It's just a beautiful experience.

And, uh.

Yeah, so I don't want to lose that.

>> Okay.

I'm going to move off that subject and hit a couple other things I want to squeeze in.

Um, okay.

And, and boy, this is so clumsy.

I didn't expect to get hit that hard with that section.

I'm sorry about that, Harry, but, uh.

>> I, I kind of did.

Did you ever see Jon Stewart talk him?

Talk?

>> Yeah.

>> When he lost.

>> His dog.

Yes.

>> Recently.

>> Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

>> So hard.

>> Um, anyway.

Yeah.

The and that was also beautiful, by the way, with Jon Stewart.

I mean, like that.

Yes.

If people haven't seen it, they should.

Yeah.

It is beautiful.

So a couple of things.

In no particular order.

Um, if you don't mind, can I ask you a little bit about drinking?

Can I read a little bit from what you say about that?

>> Of course you read anything you want.

>> Here's what you say about drinking.

You say, quote, I am an alcoholic.

There, I admit it.

Now leave me alone.

My wife worries about my drinking and sometimes I do too.

But I don't know what to do.

I've cut back.

The truth is, drinking makes my life better.

Don't we all want a good quality of life?

Of course we do.

Some find coffee improves the quality of their mornings, and others find that it's certain foods working out, nature, meditation, money, drugs or sex.

So many choices.

But for me it's booze, end quote.

Um, Katie Herzog is a writer who has a new book out in which she talks about her alcoholism, but she talks about the decision to keep drinking again, not to say she's defying the disease or that she doesn't acknowledge the disease, but that she doesn't view it as a either you drink until you die, or you go to a 12 step program.

Can you describe how your relationship with it?

>> Well, um, I've, um, I've always been very curious about drugs and, um, I didn't like to drink as a young person, you know, my friends would drink beer and I wasn't a big drinker at all.

I didn't experiment with drugs, just, you know, marijuana.

It wasn't until later in life that I, um, I started drinking just vodka every night.

And I can tell you very specifically about it.

Uh, the, the high that I get from a drink or two.

I'm not, I'm not a drunk.

I've never been, quote, kind of inebriated.

I've never blacked out.

But that high is wonderful and I love it.

And that's there's really not much to it other than that I, I feel as though I'm a functioning alcoholic.

Um, and it, it is a quality of life for me.

Uh, the fact that I look forward to a drink every day, I'm sure there are many people out there who look forward to one thing or another at the end of the day, and it's not a drink.

I don't know, maybe it's coming home to their dog, but this is my thing.

And I write about, um, you know, I write about drug, my drug use, and I, I no longer, you know, ingest cocaine, but I did for a while and it was essentially my coffee, you know, it got me through nights of working at my desk.

And, and interestingly enough, working on children's books.

So, um, it's a bit of an incongruous thing, but, um, yeah, it's interesting when I hear that somebody is sober, like sobriety to me, I think those people are amazing.

I see them as superheroes.

I honestly feel like people who have, you know, drank for years and said, I'm going to quit.

I don't want to drink anymore.

That's amazing.

I think it's a huge accomplishment.

I don't think I'm capable of it, but maybe, perhaps I don't know.

>> It's very interesting.

And again, like so much of this book, I mean, it's just very direct and raw.

I mean, confessional in a way.

Um, uh, so let's ask you something a little bit more enjoyable here.

What's your advice for people who have suddenly, suddenly realized that their clientele is mostly the mob?

>> By the way, booze is enjoyable for me.

>> Okay, okay.

>> Well, you know, I lived in South Philadelphia.

I'm sorry.

Repeat your question.

So I want to get that accurately.

>> I love the idea that you're working, you know, as a I think you're in your early 20s in Philly, right?

And, and all of a sudden, um, you know, the population of certain restaurants has different clientele.

And when you realize that there were, um, that the mob was, was there, and someday they might walk out without paying a bill and you're going to go out in the street and try to shake him down for an expensive bill.

And, um, what's, what's the right moment to tell somebody that they, they're misbehaving.

Uh, enjoy this idea that there is an art to dealing with the mob.

>> Yeah.

It's I'll never forget it was Johnny DeSalvo who worked, who I worked at the time at the Warwick Hotel on 17th between locust and spruce streets in Philly.

And, uh, we used to get mob guys in all the time, um, across the hall was another club from the restaurant I worked in called Club Allen.

Um, it was the de facto studio 54 of Philadelphia, but the mobsters would come in and this big round table sat like ten people and the FBI had a mic.

It was miked.

Um, I think they knew that, um, the mob guys, but yeah, Johnny DeSalvo walked out with the $350 bill and I had to run into the, you know, out of the lobby, um, and say, you know, hey, Johnny, Johnny, um, you want to settle this bill?

And it was kind of like Goodfellas in a way, except I think good.

Whereas Scorsese kind of overplays that, um, Johnny just looked at me and looked at the bill and he said, get out of here.

I'll take care of it tomorrow.

And then that was it.

I went back to my manager and I said, hey, Johnny said For me to get out of here, that he'll take care of the bill tomorrow.

And my manager knew that Johnny would come back and take care of it tomorrow.

I hope he did.

You know.

>> That's it.

>> I he actually did and left me like a $50 tip.

>> So, >> Um, yeah, they were great tippers, but I have I have distinctive memories of the FBI.

Nicky Scarfo jr.

I think no, Nicky Scarfo got left.

Got let out of prison.

They had a party that day at the at the hotel.

And I waited on these guys and it was really funny.

You've had such an art school.

>> Such a cool life.

And when you're, you know, when you become a cover artist for The New Yorker, of course, you probably end up meeting some people.

I've got less than 90s.

So you've done work with Steve Martin.

That's a cool story in its own right.

He seems like a truly lovely person.

By the way, can you not ruin this for me?

Or can you at least confirm he seems like a lovely guy.

>> He's the best.

I love Steve, we just finished a third cartoon book.

Won't be out till next year, but he I love him.

He's such a nice guy and I have in my phone when he calls me, um, his name comes up as Nathan Johnson on my iPhone.

It was his character in The Jerk, and every time he calls me, cracks me.

>> Up.

>> Now he's a sweetheart.

He really is.

>> Your next book with him is next year 27?

>> Yes.

>> That's great.

>> We continue to do cartoons.

>> Well, uh, let's close with this here.

30s.

Uh, you know, do you still have projects that are exciting that you haven't done yet?

What are you going to do next?

>> Well, I continue to work in cartoons and I'm doing it.

I'm thinking of I'm we're working on a children's book with the political writer Sue Halpern, who I love.

She's a Vermonter, and we're looking to do a picture book together.

And like I said, I continue to work on cartoons with Steve.

And like every other day, he'll send me something.

But he just started.

I think they just started the new season of Only Murders.

So he'll be busy, I.

>> Guess.

>> Uh, you can Never Die as a graphic memoir by Harry Bliss.

And, uh, you can pick it up at Bleak House Books two Saturdays from now, May 30th, 3 p.m.

Harry will be there for a book signing event.

And if you're like me, you've really enjoyed this hour.

And the stories not only from from Harry, but also, I think, just the outstanding wisdom that comes from a life like this.

Harry, thank you for sharing this hour and for giving your time.

And I know Rochester's excited to see a Rochester come back home for a bit.

>> Oh, I can't wait.

And thank you.

I'm grateful to you.

>> That's Harry Bliss, uh, one of the great cartoonists and frankly, a shockingly good writer.

Really great book.

You can never die more Connections coming up in a moment.

>> This program is a production of WXXI Public Radio.

The views expressed do not necessarily represent those of this station.

Its staff, management or underwriters.

The broadcast is meant for the private use of our audience.

Any rebroadcast or use in another medium without express written consent of WXXI is strictly prohibited.

Connections with Evan Dawson is available as a podcast.

Just click on the Connections link at WXXI News.org.

>> Is it okay for us to talk before we're on or no?

>> Got to be silent.

Look what I have.

>> Okay.

>> On my computer.

It's one of my pictures.

>> That was May 2017.

But you guys joined before then.

>> When the.

>> Show 2012.

Because you were an extreme science.

>> Right?

Yeah.

I mean, we met him in 2010, I think it was.

So how are your training going?

She's awesome.

>> She's she's a project manager.

So George has her doing all kinds of, um, project managing stuff like getting the agenda ready for the, we're having a all hands meeting in June.

Um, and writing a letter for all the teachers.

She's, she's, you know, she has experience because she was a student many years ago.

>> Um, now we're gonna say is like, so she's taking over for you then what's going on with the manufacturing?

Is there anything like.

>> That.?

>> I just don't know what the is actually.

Yeah, it's Till Backhaus where the isthe come out and be.

Um, so our manufacturing, you know, we made that tip.

Have you gone to the piff.

>> Oh yeah.

The.

>> Yeah, yeah.

So manufacturing is doing really well.

Yeah.

Yeah.

We actually made a lot of stuff for Starlab.

>> Um that's what I.

>> Figured.

>> I was going to say shipping, >> Switching a lot of that over too.

So Africa now we were doing a lot for gateway, but that got canceled.

>> Yeah.

Yeah.

>> Well it's probably a lot of that's going to be absorbed by.

>> The.

>> The, the moon to Mars or whatever.

Um, so you still have to figure out how to get there and how to get down.

>> And.

>> A lot of other stuff.

So yeah, no, it's, it's true.

There's a lot to figure out then.

>> But.

>> Hopefully we'll, we'll get to the moon.

>> No.

>> I just learned something today.

Um, and an idea that you could maybe think about for a project.

That that's June 15th.

We're discussing the project.

So we need to be thinking about them now.

>> Yeah.

>> I haven't talked to them that much either.

I've been so busy.

>> So.

>> I finally got one.

We had 100 degree temperature day yesterday.

Um, and it was, we had a frost advisory for days, five days before that.

So the temperature is.

>> Going, we're.

>> But it's here too.

We had 90 degrees last week and last night it went below freezing.

>> Wow.

>> Yeah.

This is not normal temperature.

We didn't have a.

>> Winter.

>> Meaning that when.

What are you doing now?

>> Wonder was.

>> Me and the other night had had the worst winter we've had in a decade.

Yeah, it was cold here all.

And yeah, it was warm.

Yeah.

Oh, winter.

So, um, actually, I was seeing that.

>> Um.

>> The.

Uh, Lake Mead and Hoover Dam was running out of water for, um, for the power.

Yeah.

So because there was no, no, no, no, no.

No, yeah.

All right, we've got one minute.

>> Support for your public radio station comes from our members and from Excellus Blue Cross Blue Shield, working with members to find health coverage for every stage of life, helping to make care and coverage more accessible in more ways for more people across the Rochester community.

Details online at excellus.

Bcbs.com.