We are back here again, outside the old Powel Crosley Studios — the old WLWT.

Let's talk about the Clooney's from Maysville, Kentucky.

Got it right here.

Now, you know the older sister, Rosemary.

Basically, if you're of a certain age, everybody knows Rosemary Clooney, an iconic singer with a ton of hits, big Hollywood movies, and TV shows.

Ah, you're probably also familiar with her nephew, who I'm told is kind of a big deal in Hollywood.

His friends Brad and Julia call him George.

But there's somebody else in that household who's had a long, successful career doing, as he states, many different jobs.

He was an actor, a singer, a talk show host, a TV news reporter, and a TV news anchor.

Of course, I'm talking about Mr. Nick Clooney.

After working in TV and radio in Lexington, he came to Cincinnati and worked with some local legends like Ruth Lyons and Bob Braun, his friend.

Nick eventually had his own talk show for quite a while.

He then switched gears and became a news reporter and a highly respected, extremely popular news anchor.

Recently, Nick and his old friend and producer, actually, a TV legend in his own right, Tick Murgatroyd, got together and discussed Nick's eclectic career and his place in the golden age of local television.

[music playing] Nick Clooney.

Okay, which one of us is the oldest?

[laughs] Let's settle that right now.

Wait a minute.

I think maybe you have me by a few years.

[laughs] [laughs] It's a me.

I do have you.

I have everybody by a couple of years.

Everybody.

[crosstalk] Well, you do.

I think you do, because I turned 85.

See?

You're just a kid.

I'm just a youngster.

A beardless youth.

[laughter] It is true.

But it's been a while, and most of it has been somewhere around electronics for both of us.

For both of us.

And because we've known each other for a long, long time Because I started in Columbus -- well, I guess I started on TV in Columbus, because I ended up at WLWC.

Yeah, that's where I met you.

And that's where we met.

You bet.

And then I went on to end up down in Cincinnati.

And you were back in Cincinnati.

[crosstalk] When did you go to -- when did you start in Cincinnati?

I started in Cincinnati.

I had been in Lexington, and that's where I got married, and both kids were born while we were down there.

And then I got the job up in Cincinnati, and it was at LW.

Same place as you.

And I got to work with Ruth Lyons.

It was great fun.

What a genius she was.

Heavens.

She was amazing.

She was, I think, probably one of the most unusual women that I ever met, because she just, it was her and the people, and it had to be guest list incident.

She was amazing.

She was amazing.

Yeah.

She was amazing all the way around, because she could do it all.

She was a musician, a good one.

No, she was a very talented musician.

And she was great at broadcasting.

She was great at just talking.

And then she was the program director.

People forget.

She was an executive -- She was.

-- at WLW as well.

Yes, she was.

She was a -- I've always thought about, they just honored her, I guess, at the luncheon for some of the people at WLW.

But I said, she -- I don't know, Ruth was the first woman of television, basically.

So, many shows were made after her, followed her foot pattern.

And we used to say, you know, I said, “There's a lady that sits on a rocking couch and talks for 90 minutes.” [laughter] Into an inanimate object?

Yeah, right.

[laughter] And did it brilliantly.

She did.

And we all watched.

Yes.

We all loved it.

Well, she was amazing.

And she started, I think, that the venue at WLW was amazing, because the sponsors, they never used copy.

She wouldn't even think about copy.

Of course not.

She just said, you know, take the copy and we'll be fine.

And she'd find out what the product was, let's say.

She did.

Because that's how she -- how the company made money.

The products.

She would find out about them.

She did.

And if they did not live up to her standard, she would not talk about them.

No, she didn't.

Wouldn't do it.

I think, they waited a few months, a lot of months, before she'd even put one on the air.

That's exactly right.

And most of them were with her for a long, long time, too.

So, it was just -- it was an amazing time for TV.

Godfrey, I remember, he was on her show several times.

That's how, his show was exactly like her show.

Yes.

Singers.

Singers.

Band.

Band.

Yes.

And late commercials.

Celebrity people.

Famous people.

Yes.

So, you went to, you came from -- to Cincinnati.

Yes, from Lexington.

From Lexington.

That's right.

But you started in Lexington on TV.

You bet.

And radio.

And radio.

Radio as well.

And radio was a very big part of my life early on.

And, of course, WLW was so famous initially because of radio.

And, of course, it was called the Nation Station.

And they meant it because that was the time when they had that effort to put out a fully 500,000 watts worth of radio, which would skip all around the globe.

All over the country.

[laughs] All around the globe.

And it was so famous because, in Cincinnati for many reasons, but around Mason it was so famous because nobody could turn off their lights.

[laughs] No.

They couldn't.

[laughs] They used to say that they couldn't.

Their iron picked up and fell over the radio station.

[laughs] That's exactly right.

Where some guy would say he was out of his teeth.

He was listening to something, Groove Lyons, on his teeth.

It was driving me crazy.

Get that woman out of here.

[laughter] Well, LW was probably one of the first stations that really, when television came along, went on the air with TV.

It started TV in Cincinnati.

In a sense, they kind of patterned after WLW because then CPO came along, then KRC came along.

You bet.

There was so much live broadcasting out of Cincinnati Asia.

that it was different from almost every other community, including New York, including Chicago, and including Los Angeles.

It was just born, for some reason or another, to be electronic heaven.

And that was broadcast radio and then television.

And television.

Yeah.

And I think that it was the network.

What was the network form that they had?

It was our network.

Sure.

They've called it Avco, wasn't it?

And Annapolis and Dayton and Columbus and Cincinnati.

That's exactly right.

It was four stations and it's eventually just three, but four initially, including Indianapolis.

Yeah.

Because they used to have the three-city finals.

You bet.

You and I came along at about, I wouldn't call it as pioneers.

Not at all.

We were not broadcasting pioneers, not even in television.

But we were close to it.

[bell chimes] Yeah.

We sort of met in the adolescence of television.

We did.

And it was then plenty of live television still was emanating from good old Cincinnati.

Yeah.

Absolutely.

We were proud to be around them because they were very good at their work.

Well, they were amazing.

I know when I was there, we had three live shows a day coming out of there.

Plus, we had hayride on weekends, on Saturdays.

The Hayride, yeah.

And we were -- and some of them moved to the network.

DuPont, DuMont was, I think -- Well, DuMont was around too Yeah, that was certainly one of them.

And I think Ruth tried her hand at network for a short time.

Just hated it.

[laughter] You know what she couldn't stand to me?

What she told me, she said, “I couldn't stand them putting the camera between me and the audience.” She said, “That was rude.” She said, “That was not how it should be.” You remember when she -- and she hated people waving at the camera.

She was so mad about it that, as you know very well, she started a segment.

What was it?

It was just a minute and a half.

She would roll the camera.

She said, “Get this out of your system.

We'll roll the camera and you wave.

And you wave, oh yeah, put on gloves.

You women, put on gloves.” Well, she had a song.

[laughs] Exactly so.

And she'd wave.

And then she said, “Now, don't you wave at another camera.

All the time you're here, the 90 minutes you're here, I don't want to see you waving anywhere at one of my cameras.” She says, “I'm just going to have a show, and I'm going to bring people on, and I want you to be like grown-ups.

I want you to take care of things.” Oh, of course, she could say anything.

I think we booked audiences three years of the way, ahead of time, full.

[chuckles] That's right.

We're spent.

You and I, we were almost simultaneous with our Cincinnati careers.

Yeah.

We were.

We were.

And mine was at LW, and then I was on CPO with a show of my own.

And I was on, of course, LW, and CPO, and then KRC.

And those were talk shows, and talk variety shows, and music shows.

And with me, when I was in Lexington, I had been the weekend news guy.

News weather, and sports.

[laughs] Yeah.

That's true.

It was all of it.

And so, I had done six years' worth of news.

But, of course, the people in Cincinnati, when I came to television in Cincinnati, didn't know, had no idea that I had a whole background in news, on radio and television, before I came to town.

So, when I first started doing news on television in Cincinnati, a lot of people didn't know.

No, I don't think anybody did.

And they were surprised.

And not particularly pleased for me to be a newsman suddenly, after I had just thrown a cake in somebody's face [laughs] at some variety show.

You were good at many things.

Yeah.

[laughter] I was good at pies.

[laughs] But at any rate, so that's what I ended up doing.

A little bit of everything.

I often have thought about this.

People love to have everything as a horse race.

And who is the best, and who is the most successful, and who is whatever.

And the truth of the matter is, I'm not sure that any of us can ever say that with any real expertise.

I don't think any of us knows who is the best, or who is the smartest, or who was there the longest, or any of those things.

I think the only thing I had that was perhaps different, I did more things in broadcasting, I think.

I think you did too.

You covered an awful lot of territory.

[crosstalk] In the early days of broadcasting, for sure.

Yes, I think so.

I was there, and I knew music well for my family.

And I knew news, because I was always interested in it.

And I grew up in World War II.

That's why I'm so much older as you.

And I was Ed Murrow.

That was my tin god.

So, I knew Peter Grant.

I thought when I came to Cincinnati, meet was Peter Grant.

Because after -- He was there.

He was there for a long, long time.

He was great.

He was a wonderful and very fine newsman.

He was.

And I got to meet him and I got to work with him.

So, that was good enough for me.

I think that was a surprise to people when you did start news, because I don't think many people would realize that you had that talent, because you had done it before.

Not many people knew you did it before.

That's exactly right.

And that was it.

So, I had to prove myself, and that's okay I understood people's taking their time.

Okay, is this guy going to sing and dance for us, or is he actually really going to go out and cover the stories?

And when I did that for them, for the people, then they accepted me and eventually made a quite remarkable success out of our efforts.

You really did.

I think news in Cincinnati was interesting because LW for many years was leading the news, I think, with Peter.

Oh, yes, absolutely.

And then Schottelkotte came along.

You bet.

And Schottelkotte change the whole -- Tough little bulldog of a guy.

It was a whole different type of news.

Absolute.

And he held that for a long, long time.

Oh, my, yes.

Until he sort of retired, and then it was kind of a toss-up for a while.

You came along, and then you just commanded news for how many years?

How many years?

I don't know.

It was a batch.

A batch of years.

But you really made KRC into the news station because of you.

Sure.

So, I think Schottelkotte changed it, and five was we just struggled for so long.

[laughs] As far as news is concerned, you were there for a while.

Yeah.

Oh, gosh.

It was awful.

But you came along, and you did a whole different approach to news, a very personal approach to news.

Yes, you're quite right.

That was probably one of difference, I think.

[crosstalk] I remember when I was a little boy in Maysville, Kentucky, where I started my broadcast career as a senior or junior in high school, and it was WFTM, the world's finest tobacco market, the golden buckle on the Burley Belt.

[laughs] He goes, “What do you think?

You think you're messing around with kids here?

What do you think?

Well, this is a big deal.” So, I got that done.

And when I was there, there was a fellow named Gene Waters[ph], and he was one of those guys.

He was emaciated.

He was a stick, a Frank Sinatra kid, one of those.

He was young.

And he had one of these voices that was like that, you know.

And he said, “After I had been at the station in Maysville for about six months,” he said, “Well, Clooney, you seem to have a modicum of talent.” He said, “So I suppose I should tell you that there is only one thing you ever have to know about this medium or these two media, television and radio.

You will, if you are fortunate, be saying things to large groups of people, maybe hundreds, maybe thousands, maybe millions, but you will always be speaking to them one at a time.

You're never speaking to ladies and gentlemen.

If you do that, you fail.

You're talking to one person, one person always.” It's the only thing I needed to know.

And you did it.

Yeah.

You did it.

It was because of him.

Well, that's funny because it just takes one person to let you know.

I think that was always the factor.

Even when you go to school for TV, it was always the one thing they kept saying is you're only talking to one person.

You bet.

Yeah.

You're not talking to a massive group of people.

That's exactly right.

And so, many of our young friends, as they started, they didn't know that.

They were thinking in terms of talking to a much larger group of people.

And all they had to know, really, all the secret.

If there was a secret for you, it was this one person.

But being able actually to capture that.

And you did that.

Yeah.

I was lucky enough to be able to do that.

So, I had quite a run.

I had fun, but I must say all of it, every bit of it, I owe to the gift of the generous people that I worked with all those years.

Isn't it funny?

Think about Bob Braun, for instance.

He and I were -- he's even older than Bob.

Five years older than Bob.

And yet, had I came into WLWT in 1966, Bob was very important to WLW at that moment already.

Ruth Lyons was just about to retire and had a great illness, had lost her daughter, had terrible times.

And he was hugely important to the future of WLW.

I came in, I was a young broadcaster, obviously having some attractive traits for television, doing the same things, roughly, that he did.

And guess what?

He was great to me.

He could have made things so impossible for me.

He could -- instead, I made him laugh.

He loved the fact that I made him laugh, that I never took anything seriously.

I think that the two of you, because I think I came in about somewhere along that line, but I think the two of you were such a good major for each other.

It was a great fit.

I hated when you left because -- and I think he did too, because I think he knew you two could pull things off.

And I think together the chemistry was amazing.

You know, you're quite right, and we both knew it.

And Mr. Murphy, who was the head of WLW at the time, he said, can't have two men, we can't have two men at a show -- on a show, doing a show.

But you can't do that.

We have to have a man and a woman on a show, or a man alone or a woman alone.

But we can't have two men doing a show or two women doing a show.

It's impossible.

It can't be done.” And he was so locked on to that -- Yeah.

He was, he was.

[laughs] -- that what he didn't know was that Bob did -- it worked.

Yeah.

Bob and I, he never took me seriously, I never took him seriously.

We were both pretty good at our jobs, both of us.

And we liked each other.

And so, if they had left us alone, Mr. Murphy might have been right in the ethereal sense, but not in the practical sense.

As you suggest, it worked.

And it would have worked forever.

[laughs] It would have worked forever.

It would have worked forever.

But because of their kind of stubbornness toward that ideal, I went on and did shows, some not very successful, some not at all successful, some failures, like in Columbus.

My show up there was a terrible failure.

But the ones that I did at 9 and at 12 were fine.

They did well.

They did well.

They did very well.

And so, then when I found the niche that worked best for me, the news, then there was no looking back.

But when I left the show and Bob, there was a wonderful young woman who was doing the show with him, and she was terrific.

It just didn't quite click.

And it didn't click as it had been going with Bob and I.

We were funny because we were tough on each other and we were funny.

[laughs] And with this young woman, Bob had to be more careful because he can't be careful about what you say and how you say it.

And so, it didn't click.

It didn't click.

And so, it took him a long time to find a niche and a way to make that variety, talk variety show work for him.

Well, it did, because it was, I think it was a long time.

I think Marian was the one person that he could -- Marian Spelman, of course.

Marian Spelman was, she would just give him all kinds of trouble.

Oh, yes.

[laughs] But she was good at it.

She was so good at it because Ruby was with us for a while.

And since she retired.

Yes.

And that's when I think they split because he and Paul split.

And Paul took Bonnie and Colleen.

And Bob had Marian and Ruby.

Then Ruby split.

So, that's when we started the Fun Bunch, which worked out pretty good.

But it was never quite the same.

It never was the same as when you two did it.

You know, you're quite right.

Also, the interesting thing is Bob and I, I don't know if you -- I bet you know this.

But when Ruth retired, who was the goddess of television, and when she retired, they had a long conversation.

But before they had a long conversation, overnight, Bob and I, already working together very well.

And I said -- he asked me to come.

I lived up over in Cincinnati and I spent the whole night talking to him because he said They want me to take the show, you know?

And I said and I said, Don't do it, Bob.

And here's what you will do it.

You'll get ill. You'll do it fine.

You'll do it well, you hold on to the sponsors.

You'll do fine.

You will never, never, as long as you live, be Ruth Lyons.

It will never happen.

And you will be caught in that vortex of your talent is not being -- will never be acknowledged.” And you know, he said to me, when I left that morning, he said, “I'm not going to do it.” He said to me, “I know, I know.” He says, “I'm not going to do it.” Remember that we almost skipped over the fact that Bob had done his -- he now owned his own show.

And I was his assistant.

It was his show.

And he had a great band and he had great people.

When he went in the next day and he called me and he said, “I caved.” He said, “It's too much money.

It's too much responsibility.” He says, “I have to do this.” He said, but he says, “I know what you told me is the truth.” He says -- but he says, “I think maybe I can find a way to make it work.” But the truth was he never reached the attainment of Ruth.

No.

He didn't.

No.

Neither did anybody else in that variety.

I did great only because I got out from under.

I went to news.

You did.

I'm only doing news.

And then I was -- then I belonged in that rarefied air.

But only because I got out from under her shadow.

I could never have done it without her.

Well, I think that was the biggest problem.

She left such a mark on television.

She really started that format basically.

And he had the afternoon show.

And I know that he had hoped maybe that could be syndicated.

You bet.

You bet.

And so, he was -- and unfortunately, he went through a difficult time because he went through the change of television in many ways.

You bet.

That he had to deal with.

Absolutely.

And so, he never could get that, the momentum that she had, because she was the only one going out there.

That's exactly right.

That's exactly right.

And she was able to deal with the audience in an entirely different way.

Along came the Phil Donahues of the world, you know, and the Barbara Walters of the world.

Taking in a way, taking an entirely different attitude toward the relationship between the artist and the audience.

And Ruth had invented her own relationship.

And none of the rest of us were able to do that until we got into the Donahue and eventually the -- That became the format.

Yes.

The format became different and the relationship between the audience and the artist were different.

They were.

And I got out of all that.

I got into news, which I had loved from the beginning of my life.

one of your great talents that you have.

It was that kind of communication.

Nobody expected that.

But I think what you did with it was amazing because you owned the news for a long, long time.

Yeah.

And the kindness of the people who lent me their talent, just like the artists used to do that with Bob.

[phone ringing] And then, with Ruth, too, and all that.

And I got the benefit of that, all these wonderful people who knew more about news than I did.

The way that news developed and knew how to do it.

And they gave me the time to learn my craft.

And you were really part of the news.

You were very much part of the news.

I think that you made yourself part of the news beyond just reading it.

You were actually were involved in it.

Oh, my, yes.

Well, eventually I started writing it all.

Everything that came out of my mouth, I wrote.

And that was, again, the gift of the talented people around me and the gift of the people of Cincinnati.

They gave me the shot, just like they gave Ruth.

Cincinnati, I think Cincinnati audiences were a different audience, I think, than most cities had.

They really did love the people that were on TV.

And they were very loyal to them.

And I think now -- of course, now it's different.

It's a different audience now.

Oh, it's true.

But back then, you all were really part of their lives.

Because you were much more than just a personality on TV.

They knew our kids.

They knew your kids.

They knew all about you.

They knew my sisters.

They knew the family.

It was.

And we indeed were a part of the family.

You really were a part of the family.

And I think today, as I look at it today, because there's no one left, basically.

John Lomax was probably the last one that was there.

John was so great.

Eddie was wonderful.

But he would ask about the people.

But I think the audience is not.

There's a segment of the audience that was very dedicated to our people on the air in Cincinnati.

And they did not hesitate to come and sit and talk to them.

Or say hello to them on the street.

I mean, Marian used to say, “You know, we are what we are.

So, whatever you see on TV is what you're going to see on TV.” And that was pretty much it.

[laughter] That's exactly right.

When I was a little kid, I was so like everybody else.

Like everybody.

I was so enamored of the movies, you know.

And I'd get down there and I would think of -- I would go to that and everybody who got into the movies to us was a star.

There was no such thing as a person who was a small star.

They were all stars.

And I finally figured that out.

They were all bigger than us.

They were 35 feet tall.

They were.

And when, like my sister Rosemary, who did both, she did movies and television.

And so, she was saying, “It's entirely different.

The audience is entirely different.

The movie audience is entirely different.” And we talked about it for years.

And we finally figured it out.

Television stars are smaller than normal.

They're smaller than we are.

Movie stars are 35 feet tall.

And you don't think of them in the same way.

We were the guy next door.

We would never.

Nobody could call me a star.

And you wouldn't really call Ruth a star.

They didn't think of it in that way.

Movie stars are stars because they're big.

They're all over the place.

So, what we were, we were the guy that knocked on the door and gave you a cup of sugar.

Exactly.

Because you came into their home.

I think that's the difference.

You bet.

That's where -- and they became very -- It took us forever to figure that out, too.

Hmm?

It took us forever to figure that out, too.

I did.

And I think in Cincinnati, especially, because people would see you all, not just on the air, but they would see you in other places.

You bet.

And they never hesitated to ever come up and talk to you.

Because you were their friend.

You knew.

Exactly.

It was great, though.

When they left news, you went to California.

Sure did.

I was doing news out there, as well, and it didn't go well.

I was number one, but I was on NBC.

NBC was pretty big, you know.

And so, I was number one, but I wasn't comfortable because always there was a continuing effort to combine entertainment and news.

I thought that that was an improper use of news.

I honored the people I was telling.

I knew, I knew intrinsically that everything that came out of my mouth, when it was news, it was going to be very important.

I knew that when I said that so-and-so, this person at 33 Newport Way, has been picked up for drugs, I knew that that 30 second was going to be the worst day in somebody's life.

The worst thing that will happen to him and his family.

I knew I had to get it right.

And I knew I had to give them, and all of those who are watching, I had to give them the respect that they deserved.

Because this was going to be a terrible day in their lives, and I had to respect that.

And the folks in California at KNBC, and in the other cities where I had worked as well, did not always respect the audience as much as I felt they should.

And like, for instance, I remember we had a drive-by shooting in south-central LA.

And they had a show on NBC.

It was a cop show.

Very big hit.

And a fellow was portrayed a policeman.

And my general manager said to me, “We can get him.

We can get so-and-so, this star, this television star.

And he has studied, and he knows.” And said -- little girl has been shot, nine-year-old girl, dead.

He has a show on that subject, about children, and how to deal with them in this.

And I said -- and he said, “We should do that as a segment.” And I said, “I'm not going to do that as a segment.” I said, “Little girl is dead.

That young woman, this is not a trauma show.

It's news.

This little girl, you know, the actor playing a little child that this man is pretending to be, she's going to get up and she's going to go home.

And she's going to go to school the next day.

That little girl is never, ever going anywhere again.

And I've just told the people about that.

And this young actor, great actor, I'm sure, but he has nothing to tell me that I can tell that person.

I've done my job, which is to tell somebody the worst thing that's ever happened to them in their life.

And this young man can't help me do that.

So, I won't do that."

And so, that was from the beginning.

I had that attitude, which I'd always had here, and always had in Lexington.

And everybody like that.

And that, because I was a newsman now, and I cannot pretend to be anything else.

And so, I said, “I won't do it.” And so, the general manager said, “We're not going to get along, are we?” [laughter] And I said, “No.” I said, “I hope we will.

I hope that you will come to think that I believe that I'll make our newscast number one, and for a long period of time.

I think that in Los Angeles, California, I think that person who is sitting at home will get what I'm doing.

I know that I'm not cheating.

I'm not making any of it up, and I'm not pretending to be anything, but I'm going to be telling them the truth.

They can count on me doing that.

I may be wrong.

I may be wrong, but it's not because I'm lying.

It's because I got it wrong.” And I'll tell you, as I did in Cincinnati, Ohio, and in Lexington, Kentucky, if I got it wrong, I got back on that same time.

This is the next day, and I say, “I made a mistake yesterday,” and I told them that they have to be able to rely on me doing that, and I did that.

So, that's why.

I felt it was a compact between me and the audience.

I always felt that.

It was, I think the audience, I think that was the key to your success, really, was it because you did have that relationship with the audience.

[crosstalk] I did, and I felt very strongly about that, because I thought that was my job.

I don't think it's true today.

I have problems with it.

I don't -- I try not to judge.

I know that there's several -- I know who's doing what I did.

I know that.

I can tell, often, for instance, I've forgotten what station I watch.

I'm never sure whether it's CNN or MSNBC or Fox or whatever it is.

I think that, but I know when I'm looking at the communicator, at the newswoman or the newsman, I know when he's telling me what he believes to be the truth, and she.

And then I'm comfortable.

Otherwise, I'd watch something else.

[laughs] I'd watch -- It's [laughs] Yeah, that's right.

I'll watch Grit.

[laughter] Good old Western.

I go back to Andy Griffith.

You're telling me to hurry up.

He telling me, “Hurry up.” [laughs] Hey, listen, and wha have I done since?

Absolutely nothing.

[laughs] Absolutely nothing.

I wouldn't say that.

You've done a lot of things, really.

And you've kept going all these years.

And it's been pieces of here and pieces there.

But things that you've liked.

I think I have one thing with you is that you always have done what you wanted to do and liked to do.

You never did things that you didn't, we're not comfortable with.

That's right.

You're quite right.

See, how lucky I was.

I was able to do that.

Of course, I lost a lot of jobs.

[laughs] And Nina never was always absolutely sure that I was doing the right thing.

[laughs] Nor was I, I can't tell you.

Yeah, but I think that's the difference between you and today, I think.

Today, there's too many -- I call them automatons, whatever you want to call them.

They just repeat whatever somebody tells them to repeat.

I don't think there's feel -- -- I think early in the days, these people I worked with were pretty much -- people believed in them and trusted them.

Today, they're a person that sits and talks and reads the news.

They're not really involved.

Well, I know something's different.

I know that.

I'm not sure always what it is.

But I know that I had it easier.

The audience was not -- when I wasn't doing well, they were not at all bashful about telling me.

No, no.

Not at all bashful about telling me.

in person and elsewhere.

And so, I have no -- I've had just great luck, and I have so many friends, you, who we watched the changes and many of them for the good.

Many of them for the better.

I know one of the things that I think is different and is not as good.

We spend a lot more time talking about the delivery system of information or entertainment than we do the content.

We spent -- we aware a new whiz bang, a new AI or a new something coming in.

That's the delivery system.

And all of a sudden, that's more important than the content.

Only thing that matters is the content.

I think that's the difference today.

I really feel it is.

We do.

Yeah.

I don't think that the people today are as dedicated to what they're doing as they are, it's a job.

I look at these young people that are coming through now, and of course, I think most of the stations, I don't think many people have lived in any of the stations in Cincinnati that were there before.

But I think most of the young people that come are readers.

It just means stuff.

You know what we've become?

Listen to this, just listen to this.

Two old curmudgeons.

Yes, we are.

[laughter] Oh yeah.

I'm sounding a lot like Gene Waters.

Oh yes, I got it And now just one person at a time.

We have become what we used to laugh at.

We have.

We have.

[laughter] Shame on you.

But you know what, I'm glad I was there when I was, and I'm glad I was part of it when I was.

And I don't miss that because it did change, it is changing.

Yes.

And I'd rather be like we are.

[laughs] Old.

[laughter] Like a curmudgeon.

We made it to this point.

[laughs] That's exactly right.

I think in the old days, do they even have obituaries anymore?

I don't think so.

I don't think so.

You have to buy them.

Because I used to -- -- I picked up a paper from Cincinnati and there's no obit.

I guess I'm alive.

[laughter] Look.

It's the only way we know.

Well, I think they charge down everywhere.

[laughter] You have to charge to die?

Charge.

[laughter] It costs me.

I have $2.40 a line to die.

Right.

Otherwise, you get just a little wine.

[laughter] That's fair enough.

You've had a great career.

You really have.

I figured -- I've had a wonderful run.

You know, I guess we should never forget when we're talking to whoever is the poor soul who is stuck looking at this, wherever they are, we must always tell them, “Gee, we had a good time.” We did.

We had a wonderful time.

I look forward to every day I went to work.

And I was pleased that I could do that.

And I think that was the difference.

I think we all were married to the business.

Yeah.

We believed in it and we wanted to do the best we could with it.

And I think now it's more mechanical.

They get people that read well and look well.

And see, I watch the news, barely watch the news anymore because it's not the same, you know, as it was.

And there's not many left of this ilk that are there.

We're all safe here at your house.

[laughs] But you still have stuff to -- you're still doing stuff.

You're still doing stuff.

I still do.

That's good for you.

Great.

I'm shocked.

I'm so shocked.

Geez.

Let's see.

I'm trying to remember.

You know how I think about somebody I've worked with, and the first thing that occurs to me, I want to call.

And I don't want to call.

I don't want to get a strange voice on the other end of it telling me that that live link is gone.

And you know we both have that every day of our lives.

Every day.

And we know It may be a hurtful day.

Because you remember exactly what washed all over you every time you saw him or her.

I was in love with all of them.

I was in love with all of them.

All of the great talents and the great good-hearted people.

Gee whiz.

They weren't all beautiful.

They weren't all handsome.

They good people.

They were caring people.

Talented.

Talented.

Talented people.

And I think that's what made I think the shows.

I know this when I did Bob's show, the fact that we were so -- we were just every day we were what we were.

And we didn't make any bones about it.

And we had good days and bad days.

But we knew that at noon we went on and at 1:30 we went off.

And so, in between, we did everything we could.

We did Bob's show.

It was different than Ruth's show because Bob we had more guests and things of that sort than Ruth ever did.

Because she didn't need them.

[laughs] All the people were hurt.

Yeah, all the people.

The audience was hurt.

That was [inaudible] But I think it's just changed a lot now.

And it's just so I don't know what it is about.

I mean, I watch it, and I'm glad I was there when I was there.

Let me tell you something that I will leave you with.

Okay.

And.

this is how -- this is why I hope someday somebody thinks that this would be my epitaph somewhere.

Here's what it is.

When I pick up the phone and it's you I'm happy.

I smile.

The first thing I do is smile.

When you come through the door, I'm happy to see you.

Even with that silly thing, you're under the canister.

Know, they're [laughs] And I'm happy when I see you.

And I'm happy when I hear you.

I'm glad when you come, and I'm sorry when you go.

And that's what I want you to know from me to you.

[music playing] Likewise.

[chuckles] Likewise.

[music playing] I know that Nick Clooney once told me that he marvels at what George can do to transform himself into another person for whatever movie role, whether it's Danny Ocean in the Ocean's Eleven movies, or whether it was The Monuments Men, being a World War II soldier, or whether it was being Fred Friendly in his movie about Senator McCarthy and the McCarthy hearings in 1954.

And Nick said, “You know, I'm just me.

I could never do that.” Although he did try out.

He did a little bit of acting all the way.

Yeah.

He did a little acting.

He had a -- when he was out of the Army and was with Rosemary at the Paramount lot, he was asked to do a screen test, and he did it with Amanda Blake, who was later Miss Kitty from Gunsmoke.

I think it was for Hitchcock that they wanted, and they said, “You look old, but your voice sounds young and come back when they're morphed together.” [laughs] When they're morphed together.

And then after serving in the Army, basically, I think for the Armed Service Radio Network, he came back to Hollywood to see if he could get a job in LA radio.

And he auditioned for a movie, and he didn't get the role.

Michael Landon did.

So, Michael Landon became, I was a Teenage Werewolf and not Nick clearly.

And not Nick, how about that?

Yeah.

[music playing] But you think about it.

What if Nick would have gotten that role?

He probably would have stayed in LA.

He wouldn't have come back here.

You know, if he had -- if he met Nina, it would be, you know, they'd be living in LA.

You know, George and Ida wouldn't have been raised here.

So, there's a whole legacy here in Cincinnati that wouldn't have happened had he been that.

But for him not being, I was a teenage werewolf.

Exactly.

[music playing] [music playing] [music playing] It's hard to believe one man could do so many things in one lifetime and do it so well.

That's Nick Clooney.

We hope you enjoyed our conversation with Nick Clooney and invite you to watch some more conversations with key players in The Golden Age of Local Television.

See you then.

[music playing]