>> Hi.

I'm Lewis Howes, New York Times best selling author and entrepreneur.

And welcome to "The School of Greatness", where we interview the world's most influential minds and leaders today to help inspire you to live your best life.

And in this episode, we sit down with Edith Eger, a Holocaust survivor who's gone on to become a best selling author and incredible therapist specializing in post traumatic stress disorder.

Her life story is truly inspiring and will teach you how to heal, forgive, and find freedom from your past.

I'm so glad you're here today, so let's dive in and let the class begin.

♪ ♪ >> I'm very honored for our guest today, Dr. Edith Eger, who is an Auschwitz survivor and practicing clinical psychologist.

And I'm so grateful that you are here, so thank you for joining me.

>> Hi.

Thank you so much to be your grandma today.

>> [ Laughs ] Exactly.

>> But also helping people to give birth to their true self.

It's so much easier just to be yourself.

>> You're one of the few thriving survivors of the Holocaust.

And you talk about the actual experience for you was a gift.

How can you view such a traumatic experience for you with a lot of pain and loss as any sort of a gift at all?

How is that even possible?

>> The stress that is, one Hans Selye tells us, that anything stressful that comes to us, you have two automatic responses.

You either fight or flee.

But none of those worked in Auschwitz.

So I call Auschwitz a classroom and a discovery.

Discover my inner resources.

How I was able to turn the experience to discover how I looked at the guards, that they were more in prison that I was.

That they were brainwashed.

The power of suggestions means that you think of a lie.

It has to be a big one, and then you repeat it, repeat it until people believe it.

And I think this is very important for people to question authority, and not just to fight or flee, but learn how to flow in a situation and discover the inner resources that is the gift.

To turn hatred into pity.

To be able to look at the guards and knowing that I could actually pray for them.

You see, we have a Nazi in every one of us.

Find the Hitler in you, and find the Mother Teresa and the kindness and the goodness.

It's all there.

There are lots of emotions under the anger.

There is a lot of pain under the anger.

And what we do with anger, we either vent it or suppress it.

I like to dissolve it.

See, once you're angry, you also are experiencing anxiety, and most of all, a lot of fear.

When I'm angry at you, you don't suffer, I do.

I'm very selective who's gonna get my anger.

>> I'm hearing you say we need to express our emotions, but what if anger is an emotion that we want to express?

We can't suppress it, so how do we express an emotion like anger?

>> Well, everything is energy.

Anger is energy in motion.

Yeah.

Energy is something that you have to look at, that you look at your expectation, and then you look at reality.

And see there is -- maybe have to look at again whether your expectations are realistic or unrealistic.

>> I can't even imagine what it would have been like to try to put yourself back together and find meaning and find purpose, especially at 17 years old, I think you were at that time.

17, 18.

>> 17 when I was liberated.

16 when I entered Auschwitz, yeah.

>> How do you start to approach finding meaning, finding purpose when all purpose has been lost, almost all family has been lost and taken from you.

>> Yeah, it's not about lost and found.

It's really discovery.

Discovering something that no one can take away from you.

I'm not a victim.

I was victimized.

It's not my identity.

It's what was done to me.

>> What advice would you give to someone who is experiencing some type of traumatic event?

And not to compare trauma, but when someone goes through a break up or a loss of expectations, which might be traumatic, or a near death or a death in the family.

Any type of event -- abuse emotionally, physically.

What advice would you have for them from the moment they have that trauma on what they should be doing next?

What steps?

>> I think the work that I do has to do with three things -- grieving, feeling, and healing.

You cannot heal what you don't feel.

Don't medicate grief, ever.

It's not clinical depression.

You know, when I teach at the medical school, that's the first thing I say -- please don't medicate grief.

It's a natural reaction to a loss.

And grieving has to do with acknowledging that you expected one thing and you got another.

>> How do we learn to grieve better so that we don't shame ourselves for grieving or shame ourselves for not being more positive when something traumatic happens?

>> Crying is healing because what comes out of your body doesn't make you ill, what stays in there does.

"Anger" is not a dirty word.

It's okay.

It's how long you're gonna hold on to it.

But don't deny it, don't run from it.

>> How do we express anger in a relationship from a lost expectation in a healthier way, where it's more dissolved as opposed to, "You did this, and you did this, and you were wrong.

Because some people might interpret that and say, "Well, I'm just expressing my anger like Dr. Edie told me to."

But how do we communicate anger where we don't suppress it but we get it out in a loving, healthier way?

>> Only children blame.

While you blame, you're still a child.

You got to go through that rage and see whether you are ready to forgive because it's not up to me to forgive you.

It's up to me to be actually able to be for myself and for myself needs to be free.

That I give myself a gift.

See, I don't have any godly powers to forgive you or anyone else.

But I do what's humanly possible and then hand it over.

>> I love your exercise on forgiveness when you ask the person to write two letters to someone who hurt you.

>> Exactly.

>> Could you share what those two letters are?

>> Yeah, well, the first letter is all the rage that you have.

>> [ Chuckles ] Get it out, get it out.

>> Yes.

Yeah, because you're not gonna -- just get it out.

Scream it out.

"You S.O.B.

", whatever you can do.

"How could you do this to me?"

And just get it all out.

Okay?

Because once it's out, you're gonna feel better.

That's why the opposite of depression is expression.

You're gonna feel better, so you get the vomit out.

>> Mm-hmm.

>> And then you write the love letter.

Then you write what you are for, rather than what you're against.

And so that's why two letters are better than one letter.

But the one letter is very essential to get rid of the poison that is in your mind.

>> So write an anger letter of the things they did to hurt you or upset you or let you down.

Get it all out.

And then write a love letter where you're finding things to appreciate about what you're learning from that experience.

>> And it's okay to be disappointed as long as you don't allow it to lead to discouragement.

And it's okay to be angry as long as it doesn't lead to resentment.

>> What happens when we hold on to resentment?

>> It's eating us up.

It's not a sign of self love.

It's self hate.

>> Wow!

Self love does not include resentment.

>> No.

>> Wow, that's a powerful distinction.

>> It's okay to be angry, but how long you gonna hold on?

It's up to you because you're hurting you.

>> What was it like for you when you finally learned to forgive the Nazis and the people that killed your parents and your friends and your community?

What was that like for you, the feeling of forgiveness?

>> I have a feeling that the forgiveness with me at 16 started in Auschwitz.

Just remembered when we were evacuated and go from one place to another and I was used carrying ammunition on the top of a train for the Nazis so they wouldn't bomb, but they bombed anyway.

So we went from one place to another, and we ended up in April somewhere near Austria.

And we were put in a German village, and we were told that if we dared to leave the premises -- we were put into kind of a community hall upstairs -- if you dared to leave the premises, you're gonna be shot right away.

But my sister told me, "If you don't get some food, I'm gonna die."

See, she was more hungry that I was.

I was skinnier, but I was a gymnast.

So I didn't care about that.

I went outside, and I saw some carrots in the next garden.

I had no respect for other people's property.

I was still a gymnast, and I jumped, and I stole the carrots.

Can you picture me do that?

And I'm climbing the wall, and I meet the guard with a gun.

>> Wow.

What happened then?

>> I never heard a gun in my life, and I heard the clicking.

Three times.

And I began to pray, not for me.

And somehow, there was an eye contact.

And he turned his gun around and pushed me inside.

But I had the carrots.

I gave the carrots to Magda.

The following morning, he comes and says, "Who dared to break the rules?"

And I'm thinking, "Who knows, he may kill all of us.

I better go."

And I'm crawling to him.

I can't even walk.

I'm crawling.

And I said, "It was me."

German people are starving.

He gives me a little loaf of bread.

I wish I could find that man.

He said, "You must have been hungry to do what you did."

There were good people.

I met the diamond in that garbage place.

Isn't that amazing?

>> It's unbelievable.

>> I'm telling you that, if I could meet that man today, I mean, I cannot tell you.

I don't know how old he was, and I don't know if he's still alive.

But please, if ever anybody can hear that story, I want to see that man.

>> What would you say to him?

>> He would have killed me because he was told to kill.

I would tell him that I want to thank him for my life.

Because we never knew -- any minute.

We were told every day in Auschwitz that the only way we would get out of here, as a corpse.

>> What are some of the greatest lessons you learned during that year?

Some of the mental practices you discovered yourself or maybe that you witnessed from a friend or someone who was in there with you?

>> With me was a lovely girl from Yugoslavia.

And we were both very proud nationalists.

I was a very proud Hungarian.

And she was a very proud member of Yugoslavia.

And she told me that we're going to be liberated by Christmas.

And Christmas came, and we were not liberated.

She died the next day.

Don't set yourself up to something that has to happen.

Have as many choices possible.

That taught me tremendous amount how not to think black and white, all or nothing.

Look at all the options.

The more choices you have, the less you feel like a victim.

>> Mm-hmm.

>> It's a very good question.

You ask very good questions.

>> Thank you, thank you.

>> You're a great interviewer.

>> Thank you.

How do you create multiple choices when all of your choices are taken away, in theory?

>> In Europe, we used to ask, "Is it good for the Jews?"

You know?

But you can ask yourself, "Is this the best I can do?"

And chances are that's not the only thing that you can do.

>> Do you feel anger today?

And how do you personally express?

If someone says they're going to do something but they let you down.

If you don't see something in the world that's happening, that's unjust.

You know, how do you express this where it's not that thing having power over you, but you expressing your feelings?

>> Well, what you can really do with another person, you let them know what their behavior -- what effect their behavior has on you and how you feel and what would you like instead?

>> When we expect someone else to bring us happiness in a relationship, what does that do to us?

And how do we learn to love ourselves and find happiness, whether the other person brings us joy or not, in your opinion?

>> Beautiful.

Dependency breeds depression.

If I wait for you to make me happy, I'm never gonna be happy.

>> You mention about Auschwitz as the best classroom for you.

>> For me, yes.

>> It was the best classroom.

>> My best education.

You know, there is an EQ and an IQ.

Thank God I have both because I did graduate with cum laude.

But the work I do has to do from one survivor to another.

And together, we're gonna be stronger.

So I hold your precious hand, and we're going to revisit the places where you've been.

>> How long did it take for you to start facing the trauma that was inside of you from this experience?

And what was that process like when you started?

>> One thing I say that I never forget what happened.

It's my cherished wound.

But I don't overcome it.

I come to terms with it.

There is a difference.

So when you say I overcame, I'm going to tell you that you just don't allow it to control your life, and it won't.

So you have your cherished wound, and I have mine, in our hearts.

>> Yeah.

>> But don't try to overcome.

Just make a decision that you're not gonna give another inch.

And what you do give up is revenge.

You're forgiving yourself, and you give yourself a gift not to carry that anymore, that perpetrator.

That you let him go.

Letting go is really the definition of love in my vocabulary.

>> Wow.

>> The definition of love to me is the ability to let go.

>> To release.

>> But don't run from it, don't fight it.

Face it.

And when the feelings come up, invite it in.

It's okay to -- there is no forgiveness without rage.

You got to feel that rage.

Don't be afraid to rage.

Don't have a drink to calm down.

No, scream it out.

The opposite of depression is expression.

>> Yeah.

>> And you're not revolving, you're evolving.

You know?

Just like a butterfly, we go through the metamorphosis, and then we shed the chrysalis so we can fly freely, like a butterfly.

I love butterflies.

I am full of butterflies all over my house.

>> I love that.

How long did it take for you to start to truly face it and embrace that trauma?

Was it quickly after?

Was it years or decades?

>> Not until I worked with two paraplegics, both Vietnam veterans.

And one of them was in the fetal position, seeking revenge and angry and cursing country and God.

And the other one said to me, "You know, Doc, I am sitting in a wheelchair, and I'm so grateful that my God gave me a second chance in life.

I can see my children's eyes much closer.

And the flowers I can reach much easier."

And I am wearing white coat, and it says, "Dr. Eger, Department of Psychiatry."

And I feel like the biggest imposter because I kept my secret for at least 20 years.

Never told anyone I was in Auschwitz.

>> Really?

You didn't tell anyone?

>> No, because I wanted to be you.

I wanted to be a Yankee Doodle Dandy.

I wanted to speak English without an accent.

I spent three years at the university trying to get rid of my accent.

Look how far I have come.

>> [ Laughs ] Wow.

>> And then I decided to go back to Auschwitz because I realized I could not get them further than I had gone myself.

>> What year did you go back to Auschwitz?

>> Sometime in the '70s.

>> So 30 years after you were there roughly?

25, 30 years.

>> You know, I graduated with honors, cum laude, and I never showed up for my graduation because I didn't forgive myself that I survived.

>> Wow.

>> See, I didn't need a Hitler, I had one in me.

>> You didn't go to graduation because you didn't feel like you deserved it?

>> Because I had survivor's guilt that I survived and they didn't.

>> And why should you be celebrating.

>> Exactly.

>> Wow.

>> Exactly.

So I think that we are own biggest enemy.

And the biggest concentration camp is in our own mind, and the key is in your pocket.

>> Wow.

What was the greatest lesson the Nazis taught you?

>> Oh, how to not allow anybody to poison me.

How not to allow anybody to brainwash.

And how to question authority and never adhere blindly to authority.

Yes, taught me everything I practice today has to do to be for life and for freedom.

"Freedom" is my word.

Freedom from the concentration camp that is in your own mind.

>> I've got two quick questions, if that's okay, for you.

>> Sure.

>> And before we I ask the questions, I just want to acknowledge you, Edie, for being an incredible gift to myself and to the world with the work you continue to do to serve, to inspire the world and to really showcase your story and your teaching and your lessons and your wisdom.

>> Well, I like to say that I marched with Martin Luther King.

And I, too, have a dream that we can unite, that we can empower each other with our differences.

I don't give up on that.

So I'm hoping that your interview with me will be with someone who's an ambassador for peace and goodwill.

>> Yeah, of course.

I'm all for it.

>> I don't have time to hate because if I would hate, I would still be a hostage or a prisoner of the past.

I don't live in Auschwitz, I don't live in the past.

I'd like to maybe emphasize that one person can make a difference, like Gandhi.

He took the whole British Empire down to their knees without any bloodshed.

>> I'm on the same mission with you.

>> All right.

>> We'll work together.

This question I ask everyone at the end is called the Three Truths.

And I would like you to imagine that you've accomplished everything you want to accomplish and you continue to live a very long, healthy life, accomplishing more, writing more books, helping people.

But I'd like you to imagine that on your last day, everything you've ever created has to go with you to the next place.

So all of your work, your books, your interviews, they go with you to the next place, and you get to leave behind, though, three lessons that you know to be true about your entire life.

Lessons that you would leave behind if this is all we would have to remember you by, what would you say are those three key lessons that you'd want to leave behind?

>> Love.

Joy.

And passion for life.

And purpose.

>> I love that.

And what you say -- this is my final question -- what would you say is your definition of greatness?

>> Just to be your one of a kind, unique, authentic person that will never, ever was in the million years before or after you.

>> We hope you enjoyed this episode and found it valuable for your life.

Make sure to stay tuned for more from "The School of Greatness" coming soon on public television.

Again, I'm Lewis Howes, and if no one has told you lately, I want to remind you that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter.

And now it's time to go out there and do something great.

If you'd like to continue on the journey of greatness with me, please check out my website, lewishowes.com, where you'll find over 1,000 episodes of "The School of Greatness" show, as well as tools and resources to support you in living your best life.

>> The online course "Find Your Greatness" is available for $19.

Drawn from the lessons Lewis Howes shares in "The School of Greatness," this interactive course will guide you through a step-by-step process to discover your strengths, connect to your passion and purpose, and help create your own blueprint for greatness.

To order, go to lewishowes.com/tv.

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