♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ NIKKI LANIER HAS OVER 25 YEARS IN HIGH LEVEL EXECUTIVE POSITIONS THAT PAN SPAN BANKING, LABOR AND EMPLOYMENT LAW, HUMAN RESOURCES, AND STATE GOVERNMENT.

HER LATEST VENTURE IS FOCUSED ON HELPING ORGANIZATIONS ADVANCE EQUITY FOR SOME AND EQUALITY FOR ALL.

I TALK WITH NIKKI LANIER ABOUT HER RACIAL EQUITY ADVISORY FIRM CALLED HARPER SLADE NOW ON CONNECTIONS.

THANK YOU FOR JOWNING US FOR CONNECTIONS TODAY.

I'M RENEE SHAW.

TO SAY THAT NIKKI LANIER HAS AN IMPRESSIVE RESUME IS AN UNDERSTATEMENT.

SHE HAS BEEN AN EXECUTIVE LEADER WITH THE FEDERAL RESERVE OF ST. LOUIS AND HELD OTHER HIGH RANKING POSITIONS IN THE C SUITES OF PHILLIP MORSE, GEORGIA PACIFIC AND SERVED AS CABINET SECRETARY UNDER STEVE BESHEAR AND TOP NOTCH HUMAN RESOURCES PROFESSIONAL.

SHE JOINS US TO TALK ABOUT HER NEW NEW YORK AS C.E.O.

OF HARPER SLADE, A RACIAL EQUITY ADVISORY FIRM THAT HELPS ORGANIZATIONS TRANSFORM THEIR CULTURES FOR THE CAUSE OF EQUITY ANDY AND EQUALITY AND IT'S SO GOOD TO SEE YOU MISS NIKKI LANIER.

IT HAS BEEN A LONG TIME MY FRIEND.

>> RENEE, IT IS SO GOOD TO SEE YOU, OH MY GOSH.

I LOVE HAVING CONVERSATIONS WITH YOU.

THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> Renee: THERE IS SO MUCH TO CATCH UP ONLINE AND OFF LINE.

WE'LL START ONLINE.

BEFORE WE TALK ABOUT YOUR NEW COMPANY AND THE WORK THAT YOU ARE DOING AND THE RACIAL EQUITY AND EQUALITY SPACE, I WANT TO GO BACK TO, I THINK WE FIRST MET WHEN YOU WERE WITH STEVE BESHEAR, SO THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN THE MID 2000s.

AND YOU WERE PERSONNEL CABINET SECRETARY AND I KNOW THAT HUMAN RESOURCES HAS ALWAYS BEEN YOUR JAM.

YOU HAVE DONE SO MUCH WORK BUT REALLY, THE HUMAN RESOURCES SECTOR HAS BEEN SOMETHING THAT YOU HAVE REALLY THRIVED IN.

>> WELL, THANK YOU FOR THAT.

THANK YOU FOR THAT AFFIRMATION.

I WOULD LIKE TO THINK THAT'S THE CASE.

I SPENT THE BULK OF MY CAREER IN HUMAN RESOURCES.

BUT YOU MAY KNOW, RENEE, I STARTED OUT ACTUALLY PRACTICING LAW SO I WENT TO THE UNIVERSITY OF MIAMI SCHOOL OF LAW AND DID LABOR EMPLOYMENT LAW IN SOUTH FLORIDA FOR A COUPLE OF YEARS AND FROM THAT, THE NATURAL SEGUE FELT LIKE A NATURAL OPPORTUNITY FOR ME TO MOVE INTO HUMAN RESOURCES AND I'VE WORKED FOR, YOU KNOW, PUBLIC SECTOR, PRIVATE SECTOR, LARGE COMPANIES, SMALL COMPANIES, EAST COAST, WEST COAST, AND I HAVE BEEN THE CHIEF HUMAN RESOURCES OFFICER FOR THREE DIFFERENT ORGANIZATIONS.

I HAVE BEEN AN ARDENT STUDENT OF HOW WORK WORKS AND WHEN IT DEPLETES AND WHEN IT RESTORES.

I'VE LOVED IT.

>> Renee: NOT TO TAKE TOO MUCH OF A DEPARTURE OF WHAT I REALLY WANT TO US TALK ABOUT BUT I HAVE TO GET YOUR THOUGHTS ABOUT THE GREAT RESIGNATION THAT WE ARE IN NOW SINCE YOU ARE A STUDENT OF HOW WORK WORKS AND THE FUTURE OF WORK, AND BEING A HUMAN RESOURCES PROFESSIONAL THAT YOU ARE, WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF FOLKS WHO ARE SAYING, OKAY,IVE DONE THIS HIVE DONE THIS FOR A FEW YEARS AND I'M GOING TO GET AN R.V.

AND START MY OWN THING OR HAVE A GAP YEAR IN LIFE.

WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF ALL THIS?

2020, ALL OF THE ISOLATION, IN MANY WAYS, COMPELLED INCREDIBLY POWERFUL INTROSPECTION FOR SO MANY FOLKS, ME INCLUDED AND FINALLY WAS WE NEED, WANT AND YEARN FOR IN THE QUALITY OF OUR LIFE WITH WHAT WE NEED, QUANTITY AND YEARN FOR IN THE QUALITY OF OUR PROFESSION.

AND I THINK MANY FOLKS FOUND THAT THERE WAS FAR TOO BIG OF A CHASM BETWEEN THE TO AND INSISTED ON HAVING TIME TO DETERMINE HOW BEST TO CLOSE THE GAPS.

SOME KIND OF WERE AWAKENED TO THE REALITY THAT THEY WERE JUST FINDING MORE DEPLETION IN WORK THAN RESTORATION IN WORK AND WANTED TO BE MORE COVETOUS OF THEIR TIME.

I THINK THIS SHUFFLING IS REALLY IMPORTANT.

LISTEN, YOUR TIME, YOUR INTELLECT, YOUR TALENT, ALL HAVE AN EXPIRATION DATE.

AND SO I THINK INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT TO BE PRUDENT ABOUT HOW AND WHEN YOU EXPEND IT AND WHERE YOU CHOOSE TO EXPEND IT.

EMPLOYERS ARE GOING TO HAVE TO SHIFT AND RETHINK THE CULTURES THEY'RE CREATING.

>> Renee: AND DO YOU THINK THAT THIS IS NOT JUST A TREND BUT WILL HAVE LONG LASTING IMPLICATIONS AND, LIKE YOU SAID, COMPANIES AND ORGANIZATIONS WILL HAVE TO ADJUST.

BUT DO YOU THINK THERE WILL COME A TIME WHEN THE PENDULUM SWINGS THE OTHER WAY AND PEOPLE WANT TO GO BACK TO THE LIFE THEY ONCE HAD; THAT MAYBE WASN'T AS FULFILLING WORK WISE, BUT THEY JUST THINK PERHAPS, HEY, BECAUSE OF FINANCIAL REASONS, I GOT TO GO WITH WHAT I KNOW.

>> MAYBE.

I THINK IT DEPENDS ON THE COLLECTIVE EN MASSE EMPLOYER RESPONSE TO THE REALITY THAT IS BEFORE US RIGHT NOW.

SO WE WOULD HAVE TO ASSURE THAT THE WORKPLACE TO BE IS DISTINCTLY DIFFERENT FROM THE WORKPLACE AS IS AND THAT THERE IS SOMETHING TO COME TO AND NOT COME BACK TO BY WAY OF WAS WAS, YOU KNOW, OSTENSIBLY REJECTED TO BEGIN WITH.

SO THERE COULD VERY WELL BE A PENDULUM SWINGING, IN YOUR WORDS, THE OTHER WAY BUT I THINK THIS MOMENT IS GOING TO REVERBERATE FOR QUITE A NUMBER OF YEARS.

AND THAT, YOU KNOW, THE DUST WILL SETTLE BUT WHAT IT SETTLES INTO WOULD BE REALLY INTERESTING TO SEE.

I'M HOPING THAT THIS WILL COMPEL THE SAME KIND OF CORPORATE INTROSPECTION AS IT HAS WITH INDIVIDUAL INTROSPECTION.

>> Renee: SURE.

AND WE KNOW OF THE POPULATION, THE BABY BOOMERS, HAVE MADE MAYBE A QUICKER EXIT THAN MAYBE THEY PLANNED BUT I'M ALWAYS CURIOUS ABOUT THOSE WHO ARE ENTERING THE LABOR FORCE, FOR THE FIRST TIME, EITHER AS COLLEGE GRADUATES OR THEY HAVE JUST COME OUT OF HIGH SCHOOL AND THEY'RE ENTERING THE WORKFORCE, WHAT THEIR EXPECTATIONS ARE.

WE KNOW THEY VALUE PLAY AS MUCH AS WORK AND SO MAYBE THIS TRANSFORMATION WAS COMING AND THE PANDEMIC JUST PUT IT IN FULL FORCE.

>> YEAH, YOU KNOW WHAT ELSE THEY VALUE?

VALUE.

THEY WANT TO SEE ORGANIZATIONS DEMONSTRATIVE FROM A POLICY AND BELIEF SYSTEM AND THIS IS NOT-- THE COVID EAR DID NOT COMPEL THE SHIFTING WE SEE IN THE WORKPLACE, THE DIFFERENCE IN GENERATIONAL RELATES HAVE.

BEFORE 202020 WE KNEW THAT MILLENNIALS AND GEN-ZERS ARE NOT PLAYING WITH US.

THIS IS THE FIRST GENERATION, FIRST SETS OF GENERATIONS THAT HAVE COME INTO THE WORKFORCE AND DECLARED QUITE EMPHATICALLY AND UNAPOLOGETICALLY WHAT THEY REQUIRE IN ORDER FOR THE WORKPLACE TO WORK FOR THEM, THE ROLES THEY WANT TO TAKE AND THE ORGANIZATIONAL DNA THEY WANT TO BE PART OF.

AND SO COMPANIES HAVE HAD TO BEGIN THE PROCESS OF THE TAIL PROVERBALLY WAG THE DOG.

SO WE HAVE NEVER REALLY SEEN THAT.

IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN THE EMPLOYERS OUTLINING THE EXPECTATIONS AND EMPLOYEES LINING UP.

THOSE DAYS ARE GONE.

>> Renee: I COULD TALK TO YOU ABOUT THAT ALL DAY.

I WANT TO GET TO HARPER SLIDE LLC.

SO YOU HAD A VERY IMPRESSIVE CAREER, I GAVE SOME OF YOUR CREDENTIALS AND CERTAINLY NOT THE FULL DEPTH OF THEM, THE TIME YOU SPENT WITH THE FEDERAL RESERVE IN ST. LOUIS, THE LOUISVILLE BRANCH, SO MUCH THAT YOU BRING.

AND I'M CURIOUS ABOUT WHAT SPARKED THIS NEW VENTURE FOR YOU TO REALLY DIVE DEEP INTO HELPING COMPANIES TRANSFORM THEIR OWN CULTURES TO LOOK AT RACIAL EQUITY AND EQUALITY AND THEN I'LL ASK YOU WHAT THE DIFFERENCE IS BETWEEN THE TWO.

>> YEAH SO I'VE ALWAYS BEEN VERY INTERESTED IN WRONG RIGHTING.

IN PART THAT'S WHY I STARTED MY LEGAL PRACTICE TO BEGIN WITH YEARS AGO.

I WANTED TO BE PART OF WRONG RIGHTING AND I HAVE BEEN ACUTELY AWARE OF BURDENED BY, WORRIED ABOUT, THE I ELUSIVE POST SLAVERY PROMISE.

THIS IDEA THAT IT'S SO HARD IN MOST CONSTRUCTS THAT WE NAVIGATE OUR LIVES, BLACK AND BROWN PEOPLE TO FIND OUR WAY TOWARDS JUST RESUMMITTIVE MATTERING, PRESUMMITED-- PRESUMPTIVE MATTERING, WITHOUT A PARENTHETICAL OR FOOTNOTE, SO MUCH SO THAT WE CAN ATTACH OURSELVES TO THE AMERICAN PROMISE, TO THE POST SLAVERY PROMISE FOR BLACK AMERICANS.

IT'S JUST SO ELUSIVE.

I'VE ALWAYS BEEN WORRIED ABOUT THAT, AND KIND OF, YOU KNOW, A STUDENT OF HOW THAT WORKS FOR SO MANY OF US AND THEN IN 2020, HERE IN LOUISVILLE, WHERE BREONNA WAS KILLED AND COMING OFF THE HEELS OF AHMAUD AUBREY, GEORGE FLOYD, I THINK IT JUST IGNITED IN ME A DESIRE TO, RIGHT NOW, LIKE RIGHT NOW, BRING THE FULSOME COMPLEMENT OF MY LEGAL EXPERIENCE, MY HOMELESS R. EXPERIENCE AND UNDERSTANDING OF MACROECONOMIC THEORY, MONETARY POLICY, BRING ALL OF THAT TO BEAR TO HELP EMPLOYERS UNDERSTAND THE ECONOMIC ARGUMENT, THE ECONOMIC FOOTING AROUND ADVANCING AND ACTIVATING THE POTENCY OF BLACK AND BROWN TALENT JUST BECAUSE OF THE DEMOGRAPHY.

2020 COMPELLED LOTS OF INTROSPECTION FOR SO MANY, ME INCLUDED.

LOTS OF PRAYERS, FASTING, SEEKING SPIRITUAL GUIDANCE, VERY ARDENT STUDENT OF THE SPIRITUAL GUIDANCE THAT I WAS RECEIVING AT THE TIME.

AND DECIDED THAT I WOULD MOVE INTO THIS PATH FORDS RIGHTLY, FOCUSING MY EFFORTS PRIMARILY MAYBE PERHAPS EXCLUSIVELY, IN THE AREA OF ADVANCING RACIAL EQUITY.

>> Renee: BEFORE I ASK YOU ABOUT EQUITY VERSUS QAWCT.

I WANT TO GO BACK TO THE SIGNIFICANCE OF YOUR NAME OF YOUR COMPANY.

I UNDERSTAND IT HAS FAMILIAL CONNECTIONS TO YOU.

>> IT DOES.

IT IS NAMED IN HONOR OF MY PATERNAL AND MATERNAL GRANDMOTHERS.

BOTH OF WHOM HAVE THEIR OWN VIEW OF WHAT THEY CALLED NEGRO RIGHTS IN THEIR DAY, HOW TO THINK ABOUT ADVANCING THE RIGHTS OF NEGROES THEY BIRTHED MY PARENTS WHO WERE FERVENTLY INVOLVED IN THE CIVIL RIGHTS PERIOD, THEY WERE BOTH JAILED AND THE POLICE DOG BITES AND THE SPAT ON AND SIT-INS FOR SUCH CRIMES AS TRYING TO REGISTER BLACKS TO VOTE.

SO FOR ME AS AN ONLY CHILD GROWING UP, THESE ARE THE STORIES I HEARD FROM MY PARENTS WHO I HAVE ALWAYS BEEN CLOSE TO, LISTENING TO THEM TALK ABOUT BENIGN THINGS LIKE HOW DID YOU GROW UP?

WHAT WAS IT LIKE IN COLLEGE, WHAT WAS IT LIKE IN THE EARLY 20s.

ALL OF THOSE ANSWERS TO THE QUESTIONS WERE JUST FROWT FRAUGHT WITH SO MUCH DISRUPTION AND DESPAIR AND VIOLENCE.

JUST TRYING TO BE POTENT AND BLACK AT THE SAME TIME, AVAILING THEMSELVES OF THE RIGHTS THAT ANY OTHER RESIDENT IN THIS COUNTRY SHOULD BE ENTITLED TO.

>> Renee: CERTAINLY YOU ARE A HOMAGE TO YOUR PATERNAL AND MATERNAL GRANDPARENTS AND YOUR PARENTS FOR WHAT YOU ARE DOING.

I WANT TO GO BACK TO THE DISTINCTION BETWEEN EQUALITY AND EQUITY.

SOMETIMES WE CONFUSE THOSE THINGS.

HOW DO YOU DIFFERENT WAIT THOSE TWO.

>> EQUALITY IS ALL ABOUT FAIRNESS AND SAMENESS AND WHILE I BELIEVE THAT THERE WAS A POINT IN OUR RECKONING IN OUR HISTORY AS A COUNTRY WHERE THAT COULD HAVE HAD SOME REALLY IMPACTFUL CONSEQUENCES, SOME REALLY BENEFICIAL CONSEQUENCES FOR THE OVERALL WELL-BEING OF THE COUNTRY, THOSE DAYS ARE PASSED US.

WE MISSED THAT TRAIN.

THE EQUALITY TRAIN WE NEVER REALLY REALIZED THAT.

AGAIN, BECAUSE OF GOING BACK TO THE WHOLE THING AROUND CONTEXTUALIZE MATTERING.

SO WE ARE NOW AT THE POINT WHERE EQUITY, IN MY VIEW, REALLY IS THE PATH FORWARD AND EQUITY AS WE DEFINE IT FOR THE COMPANY IS PROPORTIONAL FAIRNESS THAT TAKES INTO ACCOUNT THE HISTORICAL AND CULTURAL REALITIES THAT HAVE BESET PEOPLE OF COLOR IN THIS COUNTRY AS DISTINGUISHED EXTRA OTHER PEOPLE AND WORKS TO REMEDY THE SAME.

EQUITY IS STOPPING THE BLEEDING OF RACISM AND ITS MAN TESS STATIONS AND ALSO TREATING THE NOW INFECTED WOUND IT HAS TWO PARTS.

EQUALITY IS NOT SIMILARLY SITUATED OR DEFINED.

IT'S MORE OF SEEKING THE KIND OF SAMENESS PRESUMING THE SAMENESS RUBRIC, IF YOU WILL, THE STANDARD WOULD BE THE WHITE STANDARD.

BLACK AND BROWN AND ASIAN PEOPLE OF COLOR SHOULD BE AMPLIFIED, IF YOU WILL, TO THAT WHITE STANDARD.

WE ARE KIND OF PASSED THAT.

WE ARE AT THE POINT WHERE WE NEED TO THINK ABOUT, IN WHAT INSTANCES AND WHAT CIRCUMSTANCES DO WE NEED TO LOOK AT PROPORTIONAL FAIRNESS, WHICH PROBABLY IS NOT THE SAME.

>> Renee: AND SOME PEOPLE, NIKKI, WOULD THINK WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT PROPORTIONAL FAIRNESS THAT MEANS THE MAJORITY IS GOING TO LOSE OUT SO THAT THE MINORITIES CAN RISE HIGHER.

IS THAT FAIR OR NO.

>> NOT FAIR AT ALL.

IT IS NOT A ZERO SUM GAME.

THIS IS NOT A PIE THAT WE ARE LOOKING TO DIVVY UP.

THIS IS FAR FROM THAT.

EQUITY JUST MEANS THAT WE ARE PAYING ATTENTION TO THE CROWD AND THE GROUP THAT HAS BEEN THE MOST MARGINALIZED AND WE ARE AMPLIFYING THEM ECONOMICALLY SO THE ENTIRE COUNTRY CAN THRIVE.

WE KNOW MINORITIES WILL BE THE MAJORITY IN THE WORKFORCE IN 2025.

WE MUST BE THE MAJORITY IN THE MIDDLE CLASS IN ORDER TO SUSTAIN THE SUSTENANCE OF OUR OVERALL ECONOMIC WELL-BEING.

IT IS IN WHITE AMERICA'S BEST INTEREST THAT BLACK AND BROWN AMERICA THRIVE.

SO THIS IS NOT ABOUT RESTORATION OF RIGHTS PER SE OR SOCIAL JUSTICE PER SE OR EVEN THE RIGHT THING TO DO PER SE.

IT'S ABOUT ECONOMIC SURVIVAL.

WE ARE AT THAT POINT BECAUSE OF THE DEMOGRAPHY.

>> Renee: CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, 3rd DISTRICT CONGRESSMAN IN LOUISVILLE WHO IS CURRENTLY STILL THE CONGRESSMAN, HE HAS CHOSEN TO RETIRE AFTER THIS TERM.

HE IS THE ONE WHO, MAYBE HE DIDN'T COIN IT BUT CERTAINLY THAT IS A PHILOSOPHY HE HOLDS DEAR, RIGHT?

>> LISTEN, I HAVE BEEN QUOTING JOHN YARMOUTH LIKE CRAZY.

THAT'S WHERE I HEARD IT FIRST FROM HIM, THE IDEA THAT IT IS WHITE AMERICA'S BEST INTEREST THAT BLACK AND BROWN AMERICA THRIVE AND AND THIS IS YEARS AGO.

YEARS AND YEARS AGO, WELL BEFORE 2020 WHEN I HEARD HIM ESPOUSE THIS TRIUMPHANTLY AND EMPHATICALLY AND HE IS RIGHT.

>> Renee: WHAT DO WE KNOW ABOUT THE ECONOMIC COST, THE BOTTOM LINE?

I THINK IT'S REALLY GREAT HOW YOU FRAME IT, BEYOND JUST THE MORAL IMPERATIVE OF DOING WHAT IS RIGHT.

THERE IS AN ECONOMIC BOTTOM LINE THAT ORGANIZATIONS AND BUSINESSES MUST CONSIDER IF THEY CHOOSE TO ABANDON THE CAUSE OF EQUITY.

DO YOU HAVE A NUMBER FOR WHAT THAT COULD COST?

>> IT'S IN THE BILLIONS OF DOLLARS.

SO IF THE FEDERAL RESERVE HAS BEEN A STUDENT OF THIS BODY OF WORK, THIS PARTICULAR QUESTION THAT IS WHAT IS THE COST OF INEQUITY.

I CALL IT WHAT IS THE COST OF RACISM.

AND SO WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT CONSUMPTION RATES, LOST PRODUCTIVITY, YOU THINK ABOUT THE LOST OPPORTUNITY COSTS, IF YOU THINK ABOUT MISSED INCOME TRAJECTORY BUILDING OPPORTUNITIES BECAUSE OF LIKE RACISM AND ISSUES AROUND PREJUDICE AND BIAS AND HOW THEY MANIFEST AT WORK THAT PROFESSIONALLY STUNT PEOPLE OF COLOR FROM MOVING UP AND THROUGH ORGANIZATIONS.

THESE ARE HAVING NOTHING TO DO WITH THEIR SKILL SETS AND ATTRIBUTES AND EVERYTHING TO DO WITH THE PREVAILING PRESUMPTION OF THEIR CONTRIBUTIONS THAT IS DISCERNED VERY SUBJECTIVELY, OFTEN TIMES STATISTICALLY, THERE IS REAL COST ASSOCIATED WITH BLACK AND BROWN FOLKS NOT BEING ABLE TO MOVE INTO MIDDLE-CLASS AND STAY IN MIDDLE-CLASS IN SATURATED WAYS.

AND YET SO MUCH AROUND OUR FISCAL POLICY AND MONETARY POLICY AND SOCIAL SECURITY ADMINISTRATION AND THE HEALTH OF OUR SOCIAL SECURITY INFRASTRUCTURE OUR G-7 SET, GEOPOLITICAL SETTING RESTS IN THE MIDDLE-CLASS THAT HAVE TO BE BLACKER AND BROWNER AND THE MIDDLE-CLASS JOBS IN THE WORKPLACE.

>> Renee: WHO IS GETTING IT RIGHT?

I MEAN YOU KNOW, YOU'VE BEEN CONSULTING ORGANIZATIONS AND COMPANIES FOR YEARS.

WHO DO YOU SEE, OTHER THAN THE FEDERAL RESERVE, THAT IS REALLY STRIVING TO THIS HIGHER CALLING?

>> SO I MEAN I WON'T SAY RIGHT AND WRONG.

I WOULD SAY ANY ORGANIZATION THAT IS ON THIS PATH AND MOVING IN A VERY WHAT TUR WAY THROUGH THE CYCLES, TRYING TO CHALLENGE MENTAL MODELS AT THE SENIOR LEADERSHIP LEVEL AROUND THIS IDEA OF MATTERING AND HOW DO WE CONTEXTUALIZE THAT.

THINKING ABOUT WHAT IS THE BELIEF SYSTEM THAT WE ARE HONORING, EITHER INDIVIDUALLY AS LEADERS AND THEN CHECKIVELY AS A LEADERSHIP TEAM COLLECTIVELY AS A LEADERSHIP TEAM THAT THWARTS AND FRUSTRATES THE WELL INTENTIONED DESIRES TO PROMULGATE D.E.I.

OR RACIAL EQUITY AT WORK.

WE HAVE TO BE ABLE TO UNPACK THAT.

WE HAVE TO BELIEVE THAT THOSE ORGANIZATIONS, TO ANSWER THE QUESTION THAT DO UNDERSTAND THAT IRRESPECTIVE OF YOUR MOST EARNEST EFFORTS, THE DEFAULT INERTIA IN EVERY WORKPLACE, EVERY WORKPLACE, THE DEFAULT INERTIA LEANS TOWARDS STUNTING MARGINALIZATION AND DIMINISHMENT OF BLACK AND BROWN PEOPLE.

WHY?

BECAUSE YOU OPERATE INSIDE OF THE UNITED STATES AND THAT IS THE NARRATIVE.

THAT IS THE PREVAILING NARRATIVE THAT HAS BEEN ASSIGNED THIS DEFICIT NARRATIVE AND WE ALL KNOW IT TO BE TRUE BUT WE DON'T TALK WITH IT.

SO I SAY, RENEE, THOSE ORGANIZATIONS THAT ARE BEING VERY FORTHCOMING AND FORTH RIGHT AND VULNERABLE AND VISIBLE AND THAT KIND OF WORK, NOT JUST THE WE RECRUITED THIS MANY AND RETAINED THIS MANY BUT WHAT IS HAPPENING IN YOUR RECRUITING AND RETAINING THAT IS LEADING TO STICKINESS AND UPWARD MOBILITY AND TRAJECTORY TOWARDS CAREER GROWTH AND DEVELOPMENT AND A SENSE OF BELONGING THAT IS RESULTING IN REAL GAIN, NOT JUST FOR THAT EMPLOYEE AND THE EMPLOYEES EXPERIENCE BUT FOR THE ORGANIZATION OVERALL IN TERMS OF YOUR COMPETITIVE ADVANTAGE.

SO THOSE ARE-- I CAN'T NAME ANY OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD BUT IF YOU ARE AN ORGANIZATION THAT FITS THAT PARADIGM, YOU ARE DOING PRETTY WELL.

>> Renee: AND STRIVING FOR IT.

WE KNOW THAT 2020 WAS A CATALYST FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE TO HAVE FOR THE LACK OF A BETTER TERM THAT WE OFTEN SAY IN OUR CULTURE, COME TO JESUS MOMENT, THAT THEY FELTED THAT AMERICA WAS EMBARKING ON A RACIAL RECKONING THAT HAD BEEN LONG OVERDUE AND WE SAW A LOT OF COMPANIES PROFESS TO BE COMMITTED TO D.E.I., DIVERSITY, EQUITY AND INCLUSION WORK, BUT IT DOES APPEAR, NIKKI, I'M CURIOUS IF YOU BELIEVE THE SAME, THAT THERE HAS BEEN A WANING OF THAT AND EVEN A COUNTER NARRATIVE THAT HAS EMERGED ABOUT WHAT WE SHOULD OR SHOULD NOT TEACH IN OUR SCHOOLS ABOUT THE HISTORY OF THE COLLECTIVE SOCIETY AND EVEN THE SINS OF OUR PAST THAT GO WAY BACK TO COLONIZATION AND SLAVERY.

SO HOW DO YOU RECONCILE WHERE WE WERE JUST TWO YEARS AGO TO WHAT IT FEELS LIKE WHERE WE ARE NOW?

>> IT WAS A MOMENT IN TIME, AN ABHORRENT MOMENT, GENUINELY SO FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE AND WE WANTED TO RALLY OUR HUMANITY AROUND THAT MOMENT.

AND THE WAY THAT WE RALLIED OUR HUMANITY AROUND THAT MOMENT IS TO OFFER UP EQUITY IN THE CONTEXT OF OUR DIVERSITY AND INCLUSION WORK AT WORK AND TO PERHAPS WAVE A BLACK LIVES MATTER BANNER ON OUR WEBSITES OR IN FRONT OF OUR BUILDINGS.

AND MANY ORGANIZATIONS THEN DID EVEN MORE KIND OF INTROSPECTIVE WORK AND EXPLORATORY WORK TO UNDERSTAND REALLY WHERE THERE MIGHT BE A DICHOTOMY BETWEEN THE BLACK AND BROWN LIVED EXPERIENCE AND ALL OTHER LIVED EXPERIENCES AT WORK.

BUT IT DOESN'T ACCOUNT FOR THE REALITY OF THE PREVAILING INERTIA.

WE HAVE HAD 400 YEARS OF PRACTICING THIS KIND OF DIMINISHMENT OF BLACK AND BROWN.

ONE MOMENT IN A YEAR ISN'T ENOUGH TO DISRUPT THAT ONGOING WHICH MEANS THAT THERE NEEDS TO BE CONTINUED PUSH, CONTINUED DISCUSSION, CONTINUE ACCOUNTABILITY, CONTINUED POLICY CHANGE, ACCOUNT STRUCTURAL CHANGE TO REALLY GET AT WHAT WE KNOW, EVEN ACADEMICALLY HAS TO HAPPEN.

WE ARE NOT QUITE SURE HOW TO SHIFT THE BELIEF SYSTEMS AND THEREFORE BEHAVIORS TO LINE UP TO THE NEW REALITY THAT WE HAVE TO CAST BECAUSE IT IS SUPER FOREIGN.

ONE LAST POINT I'LL SAY ON THAT IS THAT ONE OF THE THINGS I'LL SAY THAT I'VE NOTICED HERE IN KENTUCKY, AND I THINK THIS IS TRUE TO VARYING DEGREES OF OTHER PLACES WE HAVE LIVED, THERE IS SO MUCH IDEA ABOUT THE SAMENESS AND FAMILIARITY AND UNIFORMITY AND PREDICTABILITY AND RELATABILITY THAT HUMANS CRAVE AND WE DERIVE FROM THAT A SENSE OF SAFETY.

SO WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT CITIES LIKE OURS, OR STATES LIKE OURS WHICH ARE PREDOMINANTLY WHITE AND LARGELY HEAVILY SEGREGATED, WHAT HAPPENS WITH THE SOCIAL STRUCTURES AND THE POLITICAL STRUCTURES AND THE ECONOMIC STRUCTURES, THEY TEND TO BE LARGELY INFORMED BY WHITE SOCIAL NORMS PREDOMINANTLY WHITE COMMUNITY-BASED NORMS THAT DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO WITH A KIND OF SAMENESS AND FAMILIARITY AND PREDICTABILITY AND RELATABILITY COMING FROM ANY OTHER COMMUNITY OTHER THAN THEIR OWN.

AND SO WHAT I THINK WHEN WE THINK ABOUT THINGS LIKE, YOU KNOW, TEACHING THE FULSOME BLACK HISTORY, I DON'T THINK IT'S BLACK HISTORY.

I THINK IT IS AMERICAN HISTORY, WHAT HAPPENS TO A SUBSET OF AMERICANS THAT HAVE A DARKER HUE, BUT PART OF THE HESITATION AROUND TEACHING THAT AND THE DRIVE TOWARD WHITE COMFORT AT ALL COSTS, IS, I THINK, ROOTED IN THIS IDEA THAT I FEEL UNSAFE IN EVEN ACKNOWLEDGING, TALKING ABOUT SHARING EDUCATING ABOUT THE TRAVESTY THAT HAS HAPPENED TO BLACK PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY, BUT THE FLIP SIDE OF IT IS WHAT HAPPENS IS WE ALSO ARE NOW PRODUCING ADULTS WHO KNOW NOTHING ABOUT THAT CONTEXT FOR THIS WORK.

SO RACIAL EQUITY THEN FEELS AFFIRMATIVE ACTIONY, SET ASIDEY, FEELS LIKE WE ARE ASKING FOR REPARATIONS THAT WOULD BE, YOU KNOW, COMPLETELY OUT OF BOUNDS TO THINK ABOUT OR TO EXPLORE.

OF COURSE THOSE SEEMS OUT OF BOUNDS TO EXPLORE IF YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND THE CIRCUMSTANCES ON WHICH THEY DID REST AND NO ONE IS TAUGHT THAT, AT LEAST VOLUNTARILY, WHICH IS SHAMEFUL, CRIMINAL, IN MY OPINION.

>> Renee: SO THE BOTTOM EMOTION IT SOUNDS LIKE, THERE IS UNCOMFORTABLENESS AND THERE IS FEAR.

DO YOU BELIEVE THAT THAT'S WHAT REALLY DRUG OF CHOICE-- AND THIS IS JUST FROM THE HUMAN EXPERIENCE, RIGHT?

WE ALL LIKE THE FAMILIAL-- THE FAMILIAR AND FAMILIAL FOR THAT MATTER SO PUSHING US BEYOND OUR COMFORT ZONE TO SEE A LIVE EXPERIENCE THROUGH PEOPLE THAT ARE MARGINALIZED AND THEN THERE IS THE ASSUMPTION THAT THERE MUST BE SOME TYPE OF ATONEMENT FROM THE MAJORITY, YOU KNOW, MEMBERS IN ORDER TO MAKE AMENDMENTS FOR THAT-- AMEND FOR THAT.

NOT TO HAVE A DISCUSSION ABOUT REPARATIONS AND ALL OF THAT, BUT WHAT IS IT THAT PEOPLE OF COLOR CAN DO TO MAYBE HELP EASE AND ALLAY SOME OF THOSE FEARS AND CONCERNS AND COMFORTABILITY THAT WE ARE TRYING TO HAVE IN THESE CONVERSATIONS WITH FOLKS WHO ARE OF LIGHTER HUE?

>> YEAH, NOTHING.

I MEAN I DON'T THINK THE BURDEN REALLY RESTS ON PEOPLE OF COLOR AT ALL.

THE BURDEN IS EXCLUSIVELY OUR WHITE BROTHERS AND SISTERS.

AND WHEN I SAY BURDEN, HERE'S THE RUB.

WE CAN'T APPROACH THIS WORK WITH ANGER AND TRYING TO LAY GUILT ON THE FEET OF ANYONE WHO IS LIVING IN THIS PARTICULAR DISPENSATION IN TIME.

WE ALL INHERITED THIS, RENEE.

NONE OF US LIVING TODAY IS THE ARCHITECT OF ANY OF THESE REALITIES THAT WE NOW HAVE TO DISRUPT AND DISMANTLE AND YET THERE IS STILL, EVEN WITH THAT UNDERSTANDING, THERE ARE SOME OF US WHO ARE STILL LIVING UNDER THE WEIGHT OF THE DEFICIT ASSIGNED NARRATIVE AND SOME OF US LIVING IN, WITHOUT THAT WEIGHT OF A KIND OF PRESUMPTIVE SENSE OF BELONGING NARRATIVE THAT JUST COMES WITH YOUR EXISTENCE.

IT'S NOT FAIR.

IT'S NOT ANYONE'S DOING, PER SE.

THIS IS NOT BECAUSE OF CALLUS CALLOUS AND RECKLESS.

SO APPROACHING HOW THEN MATTERS, WITH THE APPROPRIATE AMOUNT OF PATIENCE, PEDDLING GUILT DOESN'T GET US THERE.

YELLING AND SCREAMING AT WHITE PEOPLE DOESN'T GET US THERE.

IT'S NOT EFFECTIVE.

BUT UNDERSTANDING THE COLLECTIVE STATE AT THIS POINT, IN MY VIEW AND WITH MY PRACTICE, IS WHERE THE EFFORTS SHOULD LIE.

SO, YOU KNOW, THE WORK IS LARGELY WITH SYSTEMS AND THINKING AND NORMS AND BELIEFS THAT ARE LARGELY WHITE INFORMED.

THAT'S DIFFERENT THAN JUST WHITE PEOPLE, JUST WHITE INFORMED NORMS.

>> Renee: I LIKE HOW YOU PHRASED THAT ON YOUR WEBSITE.

IT'S GOING AFTER SYSTEMS AND NOT INDIVIDUALS.

BUT THERE ARE INDIVIDUALS WHO HAVE CREATED THE SYSTEM.

AND SO IN ABOUT A MINUTE'S TIME THAT WE HAVE, FOR FOLKS WHO ARE REALLY WANTING TO DIVE DEEPER INTO THESE CONVERSATIONS, WHETHER THEY RUN A BUSINESS OR ORGANIZATION OR NOT, WHAT WOULD YOU TELL THEM TO DO FIRST?

>> CALL HARPER SLADE.

SHAMELESS PLUG.

I'D LOVE TO HELP.

LISTEN, THE EASIER WORK IS TO GO OUT AND SAY WELL LET'S JUST HIRE A BUNCH OF BLACK AND BROWN FOLKS OR LET'S JUST HIRE A BUNCH OF FILL IN THE BLANK AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS.

WHAT WE KNOW IS THAT THAT DOES NOT WORK.

IT DOES NOT WORK.

YOU CAN'T ASK NIKKI LANIER TO COME INTO YOUR ORGANIZATION AND PUT ME IN AN ENVIRONMENT WHERE THERE IS NO PEOPLE OF COLOR, WHERE THERE IS NO LEADERS WHO ARE NOW OVERSEEING AND EVALUATING ME, HAVE HAD ANY EXPOSURE TO OR EXPERIENCE WITH MULTICULTURALISM, THEY KNOW NOTHING ABOUT OUR IDIOSYNCRASIES, AND EVERYTHING ABOUT THE WAY I WALK, TALK, SPEAK, HOW I REGARD, HOLD MYSELF, CARRY MYSELF, (INAUDIBLE) SCWHRR THERE IS A WHOLE.

>> Renee: THERE IS A WHOLE OTHER CONVERSATION WE CAN HAVE ABOUT THAT, NIKKI, ABOUT EVEN JUST PRESENCE AND DISPOSITION, ET CETERA.

SO WE WILL HAVE TO HAVE YOU BACK BECAUSE WE WANT TO DEEP TABS ON HOW YOUR ORGANIZATION, HOW YOUR FIRM IS DOING.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

NIKKI LANIER, A PLEASURE AS ALWAYS.

AND THANK YOU FOR JOINING US FOR THIS EDITION OF CONNECTIONS.

I'M RENEE SHAW.

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