Well, well, well.

So this is how the final month of the governor's race is going to go.

Hey, everybody.

It's reporters Roundtable.

I'm David Cruz.

Our panel this week includes Aaliyah Schneider covering the governor's race for the Philadelphia governor.

Our panel this week includes Alia Schneider, covering the governor's race for the Philadelphia Inquirer.

P. Kenneth Burns, the Statehouse reporter for WHYY.

And Brent Johnson, who covers the governor for NJ Advance Media and edits the What Makes Jersey Run newsletter.

Panel, welcome.

Good to see you all.

So, the first really nasty potential scandal of the race, the National Archive releasing Democrat Mikie Sherrill's military record.

The records show, in addition to her Social Security number and her home address, that she didn't walk with her class at the academy because she evidently didn't rat on classmates involved in this major cheating scandal.

>> And you know, I'm not going to get into that.

But I want to talk about the debate and the debate in front.

What is happening here.

>> I just literally wrote something this morning about how this is the craziest nastiest day in Jersey politics, maybe since the men and a situation.

And it did the race is guiding is got increasingly heated in recent weeks.

This it is not been cordial.

The debate wasn't crazy combative but it still was tense.

That was on last Saturday.

And now and now it's getting more by the day.

And so this was a pair of dueling things coming out, one that the National Archives mistakenly said it released her files.

And that also then came out that she didn't walk in her graduation.

Republicans are saying why didn't you do that?

She should release her files.

So this is a back and forth.

It's probably going to go on.

It's only six weeks left, but still a lot of time.

Aliyah, Democrats want an investigation into how these work records were released.

And the Chittarelli campaign now says they want Sherrill to release her disciplinary records.

That's some pretty nifty footwork by the Republicans, no?

Yeah, I mean, I think a big part of this is that Mikie Sherrill has made so much of her campaign being about the fact that she's a Navy vet.

And she's even called on her schooling.

And so, you know, I think the two big contextual factors at play here is how central she's made her service to her campaign.

And then also what we know about the president's threats to go after his political enemies.

We don't know that's what happened here, but it definitely isn't a great look when the president endorsed Jack Ciattarelli, and this is kind of a tense topic in politics right now, I think another component is that Mikie Sherrill has talked about how important transparency is to her.

And she previously released her tax returns, called on Jack Ciattarelli to do the same.

And so now, you know, even though there's Democrats calling for a probe into why her personal records got released, it also shines a light on something that maybe she's not being transparent about.

And, you know, Jack Ciattarelli raising the question of, well, if your Navy service was so important and you're schooling there, why aren't you releasing your records yourself?

Ken, she's kind of in between a rock and a hard place here.

No, I mean, the Republicans assume that because they requested it that she's going to refuse to do it.

And then that works for them because then everybody's going to say, well, why won't she release them?

It's definitely a topic changer.

And honestly, I wish I could come on this air and say, this has never happened in politics before.

I remember in 2009, I believe I was working for a small station in Maryland, Annapolis, Maryland, ironically, and the Democratic mayoral candidate had to drop out because her credit report was leaked to the public.

And then I was just reading before we started about 30 years ago, last year, there was a house, a state house candidate in Colorado, he was trying to track out, track down who released his credit report.

So I wish I could say this is something new.

Maybe it's new for New Jersey.

I haven't been in the state long, but it's just more, we're basically, actually, here's a better way to say it.

Remember where we were last week?

Look up.

Yeah, well, but I mean, what impact do you think this kind of thing could have on a race, Ken?

I know what it could have on a mayoral race in a small Maryland city.

I mean, keep in mind, this came out after the latest Emerson poll shows the race at a heat, at a statistical dead heat, which doesn't surprise me.

We'll probably get into that today.

But I don't think it will have much impact because we've seen this on a national level to a certain extent and in other states.

Yeah.

All right.

Let's move on to the debate, which was the big story of the week before this.

We just lived through a five hour block of pregame and postgame analysis there.

audience.

What did we learn from the candidates answers.

If anything Aaliyah.

Well I think there were a couple of topics where they definitely shifted their tones from the primaries for a Mikey Sherrill that was immigration, the immigrant trust directive, which some call the state sanctuary policy.

During the primary when progressives in the race were calling for her to support the immigrant trust act, which takes protections, or it further limits New Jersey's cooperation with ICE, which is already limited through the directive.

Mikey Sherrill said during the primary that she had concerns about the act, but she supports what's in place under the directive.

But when she was asked about that at the debate, she just didn't answer the question.

She said she believes in the Constitution.

She did say she was against ICE agents being masked, but she didn't answer it during the debate or when reporters pressed her afterwards.

Meanwhile, Jack Ciattarelli, I found that he moderated his tone, at least on vaccines from when I've heard him speaking in more Republican spaces where he has said that he is against what he calls a one size fits all vaccine schedule, that he would never mandate a vaccine.

He's talked a lot to so-called like parents' rights and medical freedom groups.

But then when vaccines came up and herd immunity came up in the debate, he said, "I support the vaccine schedule for," it was measles, mumps, and a few other diseases.

And he was speaking about the importance of them, and he didn't mention the exemptions.

And I think that doesn't necessarily mean he changed his view.

He could have just been careful with his words.

But he definitely gave off a different impression than other times he's spoken about this.

But after that, actually yesterday, he was a distinguished guest at a gala hosted by a group that is very much known for being anti-vaccine and against mandates for school children.

And he was being promoted alongside these figures who are known for anti-vaccine advocacy, including one who spread conspiracy theories claiming that the COVID vaccine was making people magnetic, which we know is not true.

Well, listen, I'm magnetic, but I've never, I don't think the COVID vaccine did it for me.

What did jump out at you from this?

I think the number one thing that jumped out at me is that I was clearly watching a different debate from Bill Spadia.

I don't know who Bill Spadia is, but go on.

Two things.

One, Mikey Sherrill did not answer a lot of questions and there was a lot, there wasn't enough specifics for me.

specifically a lot of the stuff he mentioned in the questionnaire that we sent him for our profile of him.

And he was, I mean, he definitely didn't have a scowl.

But I think, I think he did moderate his tone.

But at the same time going forward, I think he has to reconcile the tone and what's actually on his website based on his answers from this past week.

Brent, was there a clear winner?

It's funny, both sides now in any debate declare victory immediately.

But the insiders I spoke to on both sides basically said the consensus here was that no one really came out incredibly on top and no one really majorly hurt themselves.

Right.

I know it was a draw and you know that people tuning in probably have made up their mind anyway.

I know one issue was taxes.

She keeps saying that Chatterelli is proposing or discussing raising the sales tax to 10 percent while getting rid of the income tax.

But she was then asked well would you take it off the table.

And she declined to answer saying you know it's too soon to say any of that.

So maybe both have the sales tax on the table.

The Chatterelli saying that's not on the table for him.

He he ruled it out.

She did not.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That was that was something that struck me as well.

Let's go to the highlight of the evening of course.

Twelve year old Mark Muir and Jack Ciattarelli in what will heretofore be known as the DAP I'm only 12, but I've already seen one of our US senators go to prison.

What's your vision for restoring public trust in government?

Ouch, babe.

But here's Mark, though.

Remember, this kid is 12, and he explained why he didn't offer the DAP.

Even if it was Mikie Sherrill giving me a push to the pump, I wouldn't do it.

If it was Jack, I wouldn't do it.

Just because I need to remain bipartisan.

Don't ask for DAP if you're not going to get DAP in return, right?

That was the most public non-DAP/non-handshake since Letterman in '86 when GE bought NBC.

That is a reference, right there.

Yeah, deep, deep cuts.

Did he get hurt by that, Brent?

I mean, the Democrats tried to spin it.

I think Sherrill tweeted, "Oof."

But, you know, it didn't tell the whole story.

You know, the kid clearly was trying not to, um... -Right.

-...money the political waters, and I give him credit for that.

It's also a... You know, I wrote about this this week.

It's a sobering reminder of where we are at this country.

And-and coming from a 12-year-old kid who knows that the political climate is so tense and divided right now that he doesn't even want to get in trouble for fist bumping a candidate.

So I don't know what that says about our political discourse, but you know, I guess kids are growing up now with a much more awareness of what's going on in the world in a negative way.

So there's over on that.

I think he's showing us more maturity than any adult on the planet.

I mean he's doing what every voter should do.

It's like you have to show you have to work for my dad.

You have to work for.

Yeah.

So.

So now there's an Emerson poll out that was taken right after this debate.

It shows a dead heat.

That's the first poll that doesn't show Mikey Sherrill with the lead.

Aliyah, is that what it looks like to you out there?

You know, even with the polls that show Mikey Sherrill in the lead, I think it's still closer than Democrats would have liked.

So I think it definitely could be more of a wake up call for some people.

But I also, you know, I think was already viewing the race as pretty close.

in the past when people get too comfortable with whatever the polls saying that they end up being surprised.

And I think as journalists, especially, we want to be prepared for different situations.

So I think a lot of us were already viewing this race as either could win.

But I do think that this poll could very well be a wake up call that that is the case.

And it is one poll.

But again I think in conjunction with single digit leads I think it just shows we don't know what's going to happen in this race.

Brent is there a momentum change underway here if there was any momentum in any direction before this.

Yeah this poll is interesting.

You know I basically the consensus I got from those I talked to was yes this is a ballgame.

It's a very close race.

Democrats don't seem to think it's this close.

But it does you know it does show that Chatterelli is not one to be taken for granted or that the lead over him is to be taken for granted.

And his side feels really feels really confident after this and feels the wind at their back.

And there's it's there seems to be people think there's a enthusiasm gap that there's more enthusiasm on Jack's side.

The question is the numbers are on her side.

So which one wins out.

Do people stay home.

Do people show up.

Turnout really matters.

That's what we hear all the time about the campaign.

The Sherrill campaign Kenny any sign that they're getting the message that the enthusiasm is a little low.

That remains to be seen.

I know there isn't a whole lot of from at least from what we could tell right now the numbers are with Mikey Sherrill.

But Jack Titor only has that enthusiasm.

I've been to his election his primary night.

I've been to his office opening over in Woodbridge.

And there's definitely people more seemingly more excited about Jack Chitarelli.

And then to Jack even four years ago he was a hell of a campaigner.

He he turned out that vote in South Jersey.

He talks about coming to Newark often.

I would be curious about how voters in Newark have received them.

One last note on this debate.

Kenny I don't think you were physically there.

Leah and Brent I know that you guys were there.

Something about Jack Chitarelli putting Bergen record columnist Charlie Stile in the penalty box?

Aaliyah, what do you know about this?

Did you see that?

Yeah, Jack was taking questions from various reporters and when Charlie was starting to ask a question, he had something along the lines of like, no, I don't know exact words.

I don't remember, but it was something along like, no, I don't want to hear from you or I'm not going to take a question from you.

And I remember just being confused.

I don't know.

I'm sure there's context there that I don't know about.

I mean, Charlie is a columnist, which is a little different than a straight news reporter.

But as we all know, like he reports out his columns and we see him at gaggles a lot.

So I think as a reporter, it did make me think for a second, like, oh, you know, is this going to be the case where if you really, you know, bother a candidate that you're not going to be allowed to ask him questions anymore.

And, you know, I think that's something that we've probably seen in different ways.

And I don't want to say too much cause I don't, I don't know the context, but it definitely was a little jarring in the moment.

Yeah.

Brent, you ever get a cold shoulder like that so publicly?

Yeah, I'm sure I have.

I can't think of it.

You know, I've been to way too many press conferences in my life, but yeah, I heard this, this, this is a tiff between a Jack Holt, something against Charlie that goes back a while.

So I know, I know Charlie's a friend and a colleague, but I'm sure people don't like me either.

- Yeah, I never liked style from the beginning.

I'll say that right now.

- He's a Yankees fan.

- I've had shouting matches with mayors and governors in the city council chambers and argued many a time with governor Christie, but they always took my question.

I mean, if you're gonna be governor of New Jersey, you're gonna have to deal with Charlie Stile, no?

I mean, how do you just, Kenny, how do you just say, "No, I'm not gonna talk to you."

I mean, I love what your sign says behind you.

What can I say?

- Seriously, what can I say?

I don't wanna get canceled.

As someone who was actually banned from a mayoral press conference in Baltimore, because, and keep in mind, I was a straight news reporter.

They do it because they can and damn the consequences, sadly.

And I could tell you also based on my experience, neither Democrat nor Republican could take the high ground when it comes to the First Amendment.

And that's sad in all instances.

Again, I was banned in Baltimore from an open news conference because the outgoing mayor just didn't want to take my questions.

And then she tried to tar and feather me on the way out the door.

Thankfully, a lot of people back in Baltimore saying, "No, you're wrong.

He's the nicest guy."

Yeah.

You know, we did some reporting this week on the Charlie Kirk story and how it may be resonating in New Jersey in the governor's race.

Brent, is Charlie Kirk an issue in New Jersey?

Yeah, I wrote about this for the newsletter last week.

Republicans are saying that yes, it could galvanize younger voters because he was very popular with younger voters.

And in a race that's a base election, the base matters and all every vote matters.

Democrats are saying that, you know, that that's overblown.

It just it just as much the reaction from how Trump has responded to this whole thing and other Republicans could galvanize progressive and Democratic voters So I don't know but it definitely Charlie Kirk in the assassination in the aftermath everything that's gone after Jimmy Kimmel and so on has Dominated the political discourse at least in the political circles.

I know Twitter's not the world But if you go on X, you know, you can see that's what dominated the discourse and it was here, too So it's definitely coloring the race.

I don't know if it's gonna be a deciding factor free speech Very much a part of the discussion now.

Not only here you have the president targeting media personalities as Brent just referenced Aaliyah, are you concerned that?

People, the public are just generally kind of saying, oh, well, the president's mad at him.

So good for him that it and they don't realize how free speech erodes and the slippery slope that we can get into.

I think it's I don't think we can draw wide conclusions on that yet.

I think there are people who support the president who who do see that and are uneasy because they care so much about free speech.

I think the president does have supporters who are happy with that.

I do think that you know different kind of there's different partisan interpretations of speech should fall under free speech and I think that is a big concern.

I'm going to I'm going to have to I'm going to have to leave it there.

Aliya thank you.

Kenny Brent.

Thanks to all of you.

That's roundtable for this week.

Good to see you all.

We are on Blue Sky now.

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I'm David Cruz for all the crew here at Gateway center in downtown Newark.

We thank you for watching.

We'll see you next week.