[INSPRATIONAL MUSIC STING] - We're now joined by Jennifer Nelson, New Jersey State Librarian.

Jen, good to have you with us.

- Thank you.

It's a pleasure to be here, Steve.

- By the way, you said I could call you Jen.

So, people are wondering, why is he being so informal?

Tell us, Jen, what exactly the state librarian's job is.

- The state librarian's job is to do a number of things, mostly to be a bureaucrat, to move and help libraries across the state to develop and to grow.

We administer state and federal funds that go to libraries in New Jersey, and we actually operate a research library and a library for the blind and print disabled, which serves people in New Jersey with disabilities at no charge.

And we are an affiliate of Thomas Edison State University.

So, we also serve the students at Thomas Edison.

- Why'd you call yourself a bureaucrat?

- Oh, I do it in the most sort of loving way possible.

- Okay.

Just checking.

Just checking.

- Yeah, yeah.

No.

My favorite thing is to be creative within rules and within regulations, and to really work within the context that's available to make good things happen for people.

- You are a public servant, just to clarify.

- Yes.

- Jen, help us on this.

The freedom to redact, which is a piece of legislation moving through the legislature, hopefully.

What is it and why is it so significant?

Please.

- It's a piece of legislation that provides certain protections for library staff, librarians in school and public libraries.

It asks school boards and public library boards to create policies that dictate how materials get taken out of a library.

We've had a lot of issues in the United States recently, and several in New Jersey, where people who live outside a community have come in and complained and asked for books to be removed from the library and created hostile situations.

And we're trying to avoid that, and to make sure that people who have concerns about the materials that are held in a library are people who are actually affected by the library.

So, parents, students, library card holders, and that sort of thing.

So, it's important, at this point, as a way for the state to make sure that there are good policies out there that boards are following, so that there is an opportunity for people to challenge the presence of a book in a library, but also a very clear procedure for reviewing and removing the materials.

- I'm curious about this.

First, to what degree do you believe, excuse me, Jen, that librarians are being targeted and at much greater risk than they've ever been before because of, not just how many people are concerned about certain books and express their views, but target librarians who approve those books?

Loaded question, I know.

Are librarians being targeted?

- I would say library collections are being targeted.

And through that, the librarian is often the focal point of the hostility, if you will, because they're the ones who are making the decisions ultimately.

The board of the library is giving the authority to the librarian to make the, to create the collection.

But the policy for what is purchased and maintained in the library is really a board policy decision.

- But how do we protect librarians and still protect parents, others who have concerns about a certain book?

How do we balance this, Jen?

- Oh, that's a great question, Steve.

And I think some humility maybe goes a long way in terms of respect.

In a library, a child or an adult is never required to take out a particular book.

Parents are welcome to visit libraries with their children to help them choose books.

Librarians make decisions about including books in the library that have quality and merit for their community.

And a good librarian, which most of ours in New Jersey are, knows their community, knows the kinds of materials that the people in the community are interested in.

- But that's not everybody, Jen.

I mean, the community is not a monolithic entity.

And there are people who say no to, no, that book is gonna indoctrinate my kid.

I don't want my kid exposed to such and such.

That's real.

- Oh, it is.

It certainly is.

And that's the issue that folks are running into.

I think, a library... And I should say I'm speaking primarily of public libraries.

School libraries are a different, different world in some ways.

The way to think about it is the library is really designed to have a little something for everybody.

So, you don't have to like the same books I like, but we should both have the opportunity to check out the books that are meaningful for us.

So, I wouldn't interfere with what you wanna check out, and I would hope you wouldn't interfere with me.

And we know that the librarian is making a decision based on, not just whim, but how is the book written.

Is it well reviewed?

Is it highly respected?

What's the nature of the author?

So, as I said, nobody's required to take out any particular book.

And there are things, I think, with our tax dollars, being a public servant, there are all sorts of things that I personally might prefer the government didn't spend their money.

But by the same token, I'm part of the larger community in New Jersey and United States, and I understand that I can't always dictate exactly how every penny gets spent 'cause the state has priorities that are not mine.

The same a library is gonna have priorities that are that of every individual.

- Question.

- Sure.

- How has the digital age in which we are living in impacted the world of a librarian?

- Oh, it's, you know, I've been a librarian for a long time.

Almost 40 years.

And in that- - Thank you for your service.

- Oh, thank you.

You're welcome.

And in that time, we went from not having the internet.

So, if you can imagine sitting and answering a reference question at a desk with a collection of materials behind you, and somebody says, "Well, I need to know what the stock price was on June 4th, 1950."

Well, you get up, you walk to the book, you pull it out, and you open it up.

Today, you sit at your computer, you call it up, and you look at it.

So, things have become much more efficient in some ways, but people in communities then, anyone really who has skill can find a lot of the information a librarian used to be able to find.

So, the role of librarians has really changed into being sort of the expert searcher.

So, you can probably go in and find news stories, you know, that's part of your, you know, your (indistinct) You're doing fine with- - People read less.

Jen, I got about a minute left.

I'm sorry.

Do people read less because of information being so accessible on one's phone?

- No.

And we consider reading to be on a phone, on a device as equal to reading a printed book.

- Do we?

We read differently.

- You know, there are studies that have been out that show that with younger children, it can make a difference whether they're reading a print book or an electronic book.

But for most of us, I think the convenience of an electronic book doesn't get in the way because it allows us to do things we couldn't do.

I don't have great eyesight and I can read an electronic book and increase the font size, so, which I can't do on a printed book.

So, there've been a lot of changes.

I would say they're all to the good.

But I think the primary difference between a library now and 40 years ago is the way literacy has changed and the way we define literacy, and including the use of technology as one of those fundamental literacies that librarians need to be prepared to demonstrate for people and help them learn how to use so they can participate in everyday life, whether it's making doctor's appointments or communicating with friends.

Any number of things.

- Jennifer Nelson, New Jersey State Librarian.

Jennifer, thank you so much for being with us.

And again, for your service.

Thank you, Jen.

- Thank you.

It was a pleasure to be here, Steve.

- You got it.

I'm Steve Adubato.

Thank you so much for watching.

We'll see you next time.

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