>> Major funding for "Reporters Roundtable" with David Cruz is provided by RWJBarnabas Health, let's be healthy together.

♪ David: Two decades after the racial profiling dissent to create, how much has changed at the New Jersey state police?

It is "Roundtable," I'm David Cruise.

Our panel includes Nancy Solomon, Senior reporter, rent Johnson -- Brent Johnson and Matt Friedman.

We will bring our panel on in a few minutes, but we begin with the news that comes as no surprise to most observers, the environment for women and minorities inside the state police agency is as toxic as ever.

New calls for reform, but how much will it really change?

Charles is the cofounder of salvation and social justice heard Pastor, welcome back to the show.

Good to see you.

Guest: Always good to be with you, David.

David: I mentioned in the open, and you noted in a social media post this week that 20 years since the racial profiling scandal, and the consent decree that followed it, we are in 2024, and a state police is still trying to get to square one.

It is 2024!

Guest: Yeah, David.

I mean this report was more than disheartening.

It was egregious, infuriating, but not surprising at all.

I think time and time again, we see the inability of law enforcement, both from the state police side, but even larger than just state police, law enforcement as a whole throughout the state is consistently being part of investigations, reporting data, and shows that they are unable to be reliable sources of safety for particularly Black people.

And my predecessor, Jackson, working on this with the Black ministers Council and here we are again, the same song and issues, the same outcomes.

David: The Attorney General, Matt Plotkin, removing human resources out-of-state police into his office, along with other reforms.

I have never seen an instance where state intervention worked anywhere, but what is your level of optimism that this baby steps of intervention will have any impact?

Rev.

Boyer: Well, I would be very encouraged if Matt was going to be the Attorney General from here on out.

I think with the change of administrations, we are not sure who will be the Attorney General, and what their framework or even passion around justice for Black people will be, so unless we get another Attorney General that sees this clear like Matt Plotkin, I have zero confidence any of this will make a difference long term.

David: The Attorney General has been pretty assertive in South Jersey, as well, and in Patterson, specifically, intervening directly into the Patterson Police Department.

How has that been working?

We had the mirror of Patterson here last week on the show, saying he would like to stay out.

Rev.

Boyer: Yeah, the Patterson situation is complicated.

Certainly, while the Patterson Police Department has been a major hot mess, and the residents and activists know this.

The time I served under my father and Patterson, the Patterson police are the poster child for eruption.

The one thing I will say about Patterson police is that they are an equal opportunity a -- abuser.

They will abuse anybody.

But there definitely needs to be oversight of the Patterson Police Department.

I've never had a lot of confidence in the mayor for overseeing -- a lot of stake in the mayor for overseeing the police department, but I think not only do advocates in the community agree, but it is part-time time the federal government has to come in and get its group upon Patterson.

I think it is way beyond the state.

David: Larry Hamm, I know you know him, he set on the show sometime ago that the police need to be deconstructed in order to be reconstructed.

What reforms would Charles Boyer recommend for the state police?

Rev.

Boyer: Well, the state police and beyond the state police, I think the state police are just endemic of an issue we have with policing across the board in New Jersey, which is police are just unable to be fair and just and decent towards Black people.

I've been a major advocate and will always be and continue to be one on the side of reducing the police footprint in terms of nonviolent, nonemergency, non-life-threatening situations, so when it comes down to a multitude of issues, which are mostly around quality-of-life, mental health type of public safety issues, those kind of things should move back intercommunity hands, particularly grassroots organizations.

Look at a city here where I'm based in Trenton.

Violence has steadily come down, but what else has been coming down is police footprint.

There are less police than there used to be, and that is because there has been major investments into community led responders and public safety mechanisms, so the evidence is clear.

The more we invest, which is a fraction of what it costs of policing into grassroot solutions, will keep our community safer.

We really need to look at the footprint, the hold state police has, and we need to think simply training, simply more Kumbaya coffee with a cop stuff is not the answer.

David: I have 1:30 left for these two questions, so we will try to be brief.

A couple others, one is the results of this study that found that disparity in women and minority led contractors, for instance, getting almost no business with the state, that has been going on forever.

This comes as a result of a study that found that this has been going on forever.

What is your thought on how to change that?

Rev.

Boyer: Well, you know, I am not the businessman of advocates, but I will say, we have to keep pushing for change.

We are relying heavily on the reforms the Black caucus put forth and we will support all of that.

Simply, there needs to be set-asides.

David: This school desegregation suit, talks are ongoing.

I know your organization has been close to that.

Anything you can share from those talks?

Rev.

Boyer: All that I know, which is what has been in the press, so I think it is what everybody else knows, is that they are nearing towards some proposed resolutions and responses.

I remain very skeptical if the state as a whole, meaning the people, are really ready and willing to do anything meaningful around integration.

David: Again, using baby steps analogy, talking about magnet schools, making more regional schools, where people from different towns can go.

Are these positive first steps?

Rev.

Boyer: I do.

I think the key to this thing, which is the approach, which we've all taken, is to make whatever the remedies are voluntary, but to make the educational options so attractive that they actually pull people towards it, and I think that is the only way in which these types of things work.

People have to be willing.

You cannot go back to a bussing situation and actually dismantling spaces where people would rather be.

David: Charles Boyer, salvation and social justice.

Always good talking to you, Pastor.

Thank you.

Rev.

Boyer: Thank you.

David: Cannell, Nancy, Matt, -- panel, Nancy, Matt, Brent, good to see you all.

Let's pick up on that conversation, the Attorney General, Matt, we had Andre on the show last week and he said the Attorney General is using his tenure as a steppingstone for some kind of clinical ambition, something that George Norcross said when he got indicted.

I will not ask you to look into his heart but what is up with Matt Plotkin?

Matt: George Norcross hated I never worked with anyone and used it to build up a political career and that helped him accomplish pre-much the biggest things he has done in a long career in New Jersey politics, but there are a lot of rumors and a lot of speculation that he's interested in hierarch is -- interested in higher office.

I don't have a reason to doubt that necessarily, although they have not been confirmed, but that is the way it works.

If you are running for office and you would like legitimate achievements, then you go after the legitimate issues.

I don't think anyone can argue that the Patterson Police Department was not for of abuse and in deeper need of deep, deep reform.

For the love of God, there was a horrific deal of Cops filming themselves slapping a guy on a hospital bed really hard.

The fact that they were able to do this, not just that they didn't but that they recorded it and laughed about it, I think tells you all you need to know about what the culture was within the department.

I'm not saying that I'm going to endorse a policy of estate stepping in, but the idea that the Patterson Police Department was not in need for deep reform is nuts.

As far as the state troopers in this Platkin report, just one small example that I think is indicative, just to give you an idea of the culture, when one trooper goes missing, they post pictures of him all over the Internet.

Nobody thinks, isn't it strange that he has this slogan attached Giants on his neck?

And then everyone thinks of the other white supremacist tattoos he has, one of the clear logo.

You think he has never talked about this?

Let's be real.

Give me a break.

Give me a break.

David: It is ingrained culture.

Matt: it is, the fact that they put this picture out there and do nothing about that?

And then when people pointed out, what they first did before addressing the fact that they Hitler youth logo on the guy's neck, first, they just took that picture off.

No, let's not beat around the bush and be ridiculous.

It is staring us right in the face.

These reports were damming.

It represents a deep cultural rot in this institution and I don't think it is limited to this one institution.

Let's just not pretend it is anything but what we clearly see it as.

David: Nancy, forget to you, can you share about the situation over at WNYC, more layoffs and buyouts over there?

Nancy: Yes.

We went through a round of layoffs year ago, and now we have another round we have just been through, about an 8% reduction in staff.

They did offer a very nice buyout for folks who wanted to leave anyway, so that helped to offset some of the layoffs.

I put in for a buyout to leave WNYC and I was given a counter offer to stay, and I'm going to work half-time, and today is my last day in the newsroom after 13 years.

Instead, I'm going to be working on trying to come up with a second season of my podcast Dead End, and I will continue to host our once a month: Show.

David: That's good.

Getting back to the original topic at hand, is Andre Saia the only one who would like the state police out of Patterson?

Nancy: I cannot answer that question.

I mean, I would just like to jump into the whole state police thing.

It is disgraceful, the details in that report, and it is particularly disgraceful, as mentioned at the top of the show, that this comes 25 years after the first problems with the state police were part of a federal investigation.

I also think these problems really lay at the doorstep of the governor.

I think we have to be clear about that.

It is the governor who hires and fires the superintendent of the state police, not the Attorney General.

And I think what we saw in those two reports from Matt Platkin is that he has for multiple times this year, Matt Platkin, the Attorney General appointed by Governor Phil Murphy, has taken a stand in opposition to his old boss and the guy who gave him the job.

I think he deserves a lot of credit for being as courageous as he has been this year with many of the things he's taken on.

David: Brent, I see that in and ad for governor, Matt Platkin.

Missy Apollo?

Brent: It has been -- and see a politician in waiting?

Brent: It has been spoken about that he is a future mover and shaker in a political sense, not just as Attorney General.

He's been as close to the Murphy administration is anyone the last eight years.

He was there from the beginning, very sharp, shrewd guy.

I've heard whispers.

We are getting to the point where everyone who has and they will be running for office next year.

I don't know if it will be this election are one in the future but don't count him out.

David: Patterson Mayor Matt Platkin.

Speaking of politicians, let's talk about races to watch.

Matt, are you looking at the usual suspects?

Matt: I think the only race in New Jersey we can truly say is competitive, barring one or two surprises, would be the seventh congressional district.

Really, this is, you know, last time Kane barely pulled it off with a district literally made for him.

And this year, with the presidential contest at the top of the ticket, things have not shaken up with Biden coming off and Harris jumping on.

It really is kind of a jump ball here.

We could talk about Tom Kane not talking to anybody.

It seems he is just going to ride this out, and I think his fate depends on the level of how much Harris carries New Jersey by.

I don't think there will be a ton of tickets in this district.

David: We are going to get to Tom Kane and elevators in a minute.

Brent, what basis are you looking at?

The seventh and maybe the Senate race?

Brent: Yeah, the Senate races interesting because it is a U.S. Senate race and the U.S. Senate is among the highest offices you can hold.

It will be closer than expected I think.

I don't know if it will be a 5.71 race, but we have not elected a Republican to the U.S. Senate since two years after the Beatles broke up in 1972.

In context, a really long time.

You know, that is a race to watch.

Openly gay hotelier running against Andy Kim, who made shockwaves in New Jersey politics, and to replace the Bob Menendez seat.

Who knows if Menendez will still be on the voters minds.

There will also be new members of Congress.

You know, the race is one of the premier house races in the nation.

One that could help determine whether Republicans hold onto the house.

Matt: with the Senate race, one interesting factor is you could see it with Governor Murphy, with other Democrats.

They are still bitter at Andy Kim for trashing the whole Democratic machine that people built over decades a New Jersey.

Maybe they will not work as hard for him, but luckily for Kim, that does not matter as much in a presidential year when everyone is voting in it is like Democrats versus Republicans.

I really do not buy that this race is as close as Republicans say.

They do this every time.

David: Personally, for me, we should tip our hat to you, Brent , for always finding a Beatles connection.

[LAUGHTER] Brent: The Beatles are life, that is what I've learned in my 41 years on this earth.

David: Nancy, you recently had a piece on Tom Kane Junior.

Before we go to that, talk about Tom Kane and elevators.

Some of you may remember this scene from 2006, which took place in AC.

Also, he avoided questions from reporters.

And then there is this week with NJ Spotlight's D.C. reporter Ben Hulac, getting the cold shoulder from Kane again and the elevator.

>> Argue in favor of mass deportations in New Jersey in the seventh district?

[silence] >> What about Ukraine, will Trump do enough to support Ukraine in the war effort?

[silence] David: I posted this week that Kane needed to start taking the stairs or get a better body person, who I don't know if anybody in there was functioning as a body person to run interference.

Thoughts on Kane, and any other basis you are watching, Nancy?

Nancy: Well, I just think that video, which is possibly the most current -- cringiest think I have seen all year because it goes on for a long time, it really raises the question of if he cannot handle this situation better, what is he doing there?

As you mentioned, this has been going on a long time.

This is his third run.

He ran once unsuccessfully for the seat, he ran again in one, and now this is his reelection campaign.

That is three campaigns where he has not talked to the press.

You can decide how important that is to you as a voter but it raises questions about his ability to do the job if he cannot stop and just even make a conversation to deflect away from an issue he is trying not to talk about.

I think it is a real problem, and we are seeing this to Altman -- the Sue Altman campaign tried to exploit that.

She is holding town halls, talking about the fact that Kane does not hold them, and more generally to zoom out on the race, I'm told internal polling, both from the Kim campaign and the Altman campaign are showing that an anti-corruption message is resonating with voters by a large percentage, and that is with the two are running on.

You combine that with a strong showing by Kamala Harris if that happens, and so you are going to get a good leg up for these Democrats running in those two races.

David: Matt, are we doing Kane a favor by emphasizing this, especially with his base?

Matt: I will offer him a favor, when someone is talking to you, you just do this, sorry, I cannot talk right now.

David: Gotta go.

Matt: but are we doing him a favor?

No.

I don't know how much of this stuff --Kane did the same thing almost 20 years ago when the news media was much more of a force than we are now, but he is clearly banking on this being irrelevant and that he can just get his message out, whatever it is, through commercials, Super PAC's, and through statements from his office that he is not actually saying with his own mouth.

That is increasingly unfortunate that it works more and more today.

This is very awkward, just the staring straight ahead.

The other problems with the messages if he says something like, I'm bipartisan, the most bipartisan reporter who really studies this stuff closely, how can you claim to be a moderate bipartisan and vote for someone like Jordan for speaker?

Someone who is very out there on the fringes of the right?

David: I'm sorry, but Tom is not available to answer that question.

Matt: exactly.

That is his strategy.

It is also what he's comfortable with because those of us have known for a long time.

He is not a great speaker off-the-cuff.

David: Let me move on to a couple of things.

I'm running out of time.

Let's talk about the battle of the political ads in the Senate race.

Democrat Andy Kim and Republican Curtis Basso releasing as this week.

Let's take a look at those real quick.

>> Jersey politics has a certain reputation, but I believe we can change that.

I'm Andy Kim.

In Congress, champion the strongest anticorruption bill in a generation.

>> I've been with my husband for 22 years, I believe our border needs to be secure, and I'm pro parents and Freud Choate -- pro-choice and believe women, not the government, should decide what is best for them.

David: Who's ad work better?

Brent: Andy Kim riffs off of "the Sopranos."

And then you saw some stereotypes played in an interesting way.

Bashaw is trying to show he's a different kind of Republican, which is very tough and the Donald Trump's-centric world, especially when he endorsed him.

It's tough to say I'm a different Republican who will bring people together when Trump is on the ticket and causing such division among the party.

This highlights two things the candidates are going after in campaigns, corruption and "I'm different."

David: Nancy, Ken Curtis Bashaw be different enough to attract independents?

Nancy: Yeah, I mean I think he has a chance, but I don't expect him to win, but I think he does have an appeal for moderate Democrats.

David: But not enough?

Nancy: It is a very tough haul for a guy to run this race in a presidential election without numbering of Democrats to Republicans in the state.

And he probably is going to lose some conservative Republican voters by being an out-gay man.

I totally love and respect the fact he is doing that, but, you know, it probably is going to eat into his Republican base a little bit, sadly.

You know, I think both ads are good.

It is just a lot of history going back to two years after the Beatles breakup.

David: Nice, bringing it home, Nancy.

And that is "Roundtable" this week.

Thank you and good to see you.

Thank you to Charles Boyer for joining us for it followed the show on RoundtableNJ.

If you like the content, share it and subscribe to the YouTube channel to find more great work from our journalists.

I'm David Cruz.

From all the crew here, thank you for watching.

See you next week.

>> Major funding for "Reporters Roundtable" with David Cruz is provided by RWJBarnabas Health, let's be healthy together.

♪