>>> MAJOR FUNDING FOR "REPORTERS ROUNDTABLE" WITH DAVID CRUZ IS PROVIDED BY -- NEW JERSEY REALTORS, A VOICE FOR REAL ESTATE IN NEW JERSEY.

MORE INFORMATION IS ONLINE AT NJREALTOR.COM.

RJ BARNABAS HEALTH.

LET'S BE HEALTHY TOGETHER.

AND BY NJM INSURANCE GROUP, SERVING THE INSURANCE NEEDS OF NEW JERSEY RESIDENTS AND BUSINESSES FOR MORE THAN 100 YEARS.

PROFESSIONAL SUPPORT IS PROVIDED BY NEW JERSEY BUSINESS MAGAZINE, THE MAGAZINE OF THE NEW JERSEY BUSINESS AND INDUSTRY ASSOCIATION, REPORTING TO EXECUTIVES AND LEGISLATIVE LEADERS IN ALL 21 COUNTIES OF THE GARDEN STATE SINCE 1954.

♪♪ >>> HELLO, EVERYBODY.

THIS IS "REPORTERS ROUNDTABLE."

I'M DAVID CRUZ.

WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

THANKS TO COLLEEN O'DAY FOR FILLING IN THE PAST COUPLE OF WEEKS.

SO WHAT DID I MISS?

WELL, I GOT BACK JUST IN TIME TO WATCH ANOTHER BUDGET SEASON END.

THIS ONE WITH THE USUAL FLURRY OF BILLS, SOME ARRIVING LITERALLY AT THE LAST MINUTE.

COMPLAINTS FROM ALL SIDES, IT SEEMS, ON THE PROCESS, TRANSPARENCY OR THE LACK THEREOF.

LET'S GET INTO WITH THE ASSEMBLY BUDGET COMMITTEE VICE CHAIRMAN.

ASSEMBLYMAN, GOOD TO SEE YOU AGAIN.

WELCOME.

>> DAVID, HAPPY TO BE HERE.

I'M A FAN OF THE SHOW.

I USUALLY WATCH IT ON SUNDAYS, BUT SINCE I'M ON WITH YOU NOW, IT FREES UP MY SUNDAY MORNING.

>> EXCELLENT.

YOU SAID IT'S THE MOST UNUSUAL BUDGET PROCESS YOU'VE EVER BEEN INVOLVED WITH, AND YOU'VE BEEN IN THE ASSEMBLY FOR ALMOST TWO DECADES.

I CHECKED.

DID YOU GET IT RIGHT?

>> IT'S UNUSUAL BECAUSE WE HAVEN'T BEEN IN A POSITION WHERE WE HAD THESE KIND OF RESOURCES IN THE PAST.

WHEN I ARRIVED AS PART OF THE McGREEVEY MAJORITY IN 2002, WE WERE FACING A MULTI-BILLION DOLLAR DEFICIT AT THAT TIME.

SO IT'S BEEN A ROLLER COASTER OVER THESE YEARS, CIRCUMSTANCES SURROUNDING THE MONEY WE'D HAVE TO WORK WITH.

THIS WAS VERY UNUSUAL IN THE FACT THAT WE ENDED UP WITH A LOT MORE RESOURCES THAN WE HAD THOUGHT WE WOULD HAVE AT THE, YOU KNOW, MIDWAY POINT OF THE PANDEMIC.

>> AND THE FINAL PRODUCT, DO YOU THINK YOU GOT IT RIGHT?

>> I'M VERY SATISFIED WITH IT.

I THINK IT'S VERY RESPONSIBLE.

IT DOES A LOT OF THINGS, AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, MANY OF US WERE CALLING FOR REDUCING DEBT.

YOU KNOW, WE LOCKED AWAY OVER $3 BILLION.

IN FACT, WE LOCKED AWAY AN EQUAL AMOUNT FROM WHAT WE BORROWED WITH THE MAJORITY OF THAT GOING TO REPAYING MORE EXPENSIVE DEBT.

SO I THINK WE HAVE ESTABLISHED A RESPONSIBLE BUDGET HERE FROM TOP TO BOTTOM.

>> WHEN WE SPOKE EARLIER THIS WEEK, YOU SAID THE BUDGET WAS ALSO LOOKING DOWN THE ROAD.

HOW DOES IT DO THAT?

>> WELL, IT LOOKS DOWN THE ROAD BECAUSE OF THE SURPLUS THAT WE'VE BEEN ABLE TO MAINTAIN BECAUSE OF OUR INTENTION, AS I JUST MENTIONED, TO PAY DOWN DEBT.

IT LOOKS DOWN THE ROAD IN HOW WE'RE MANAGING THIS PENSION.

I MEAN THE PAYMENT WE'RE MAKING THIS YEAR ON THE PENSION IS RECORD-SETTING.

THEN WE ADDED ON TOP OF WHAT WAS PLANNED, $6 BILLION, WE ADDED ANOTHER $500 MILLION FROM THE ADDITIONAL SPENDING CATEGORY TOWARDS THE PENSION PAYMENT, WHICH WILL HELP TAKE PRESSURE OFF IN THE YEARS GOING FORWARD.

THEY'RE JUST A COUPLE EXAMPLES.

>> YOU KNOW, EVERY YEAR AS I FOLLOW THE LEGISLATURE, I SEEM TO LEARN A NEW WORD.

THE WORD THIS YEAR IS "DEFEASANCE."

THAT'S SUCH A LEGISLATURE WORD.

WHAT DOES THAT MEAN TO PEOPLE?

>> I DON'T KNOW, YOU KNOW -- I DON'T KNOW WHY THAT WORD WAS CHOSEN.

IT'S A CORRECT WORD, BUT IT'S NOT A WORD PEOPLE EASILY UNDERSTAND.

BUT IT SIMPLY MEANS WE'RE GOING TO PAY OFF DEBT, AND WE HAVE A LOT OF DEBT TO CHOOSE FROM.

SO THERE'S PLENTY TO SELECT FROM.

SO THE INTENTION IS TO PAY OFF DEBT THAT COSTS US MORE MONEY, THAT WAS BORROWED AT A DIFFERENT TIME WHEN INTEREST RATES WERE HIGHER.

>> SO YOU DON'T BUY THE CRITICISM THAT THIS PROCESS HASN'T BEEN TRANSPARENT?

>> DAVID, FIRST OF ALL, WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE THINGS OF MERIT TO ARGUE ON, YOU ARGUE PROCESS.

I MEAN, YOU KNOW, THIS BUDGET STARTING WITH THE GOVERNOR'S ADDRESS AND THE FINAL BUDGET PROBABLY CONTAINS 97% OF WHAT THE GOVERNOR SPOKE ABOUT.

SO ANYONE THAT DIDN'T FIND HIM TO BE TRANSPARENT WASN'T TAKING TIME TO LOOK.

MULTIPLE PUBLIC HEARINGS BETWEEN BOTH HOUSES AND OF COURSE THE VARIOUS DEPARTMENT HEADS COMING IN FROM TOP TO BOTTOM.

SO THE PROCESS WAS VERY OPEN.

EVEN IN THIS PANDEMIC CIRCUMSTANCES WITH THE ABILITY TO MEET ELECTRONICALLY, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE WERE ABLE TO WATCH FROM GREAT DISTANCE PLACES THAT WERE OTHERWISE NOT ABLE TO TRAVEL TO THE STATEHOUSE.

I THINK THAT'S JUST A RED HERRING, SOMETHING THAT BECAUSE YOU DON'T HAVE OTHER THINGS TO TALK ABOUT.

SO THIS IS A HARD BUDGET TO CRITICIZE.

>> BUT WE WERE WATCHING THE BUDGET COMMITTEE MEETINGS, AND SOME BILLS WERE GETTING INTRODUCED BEFORE ANYONE EVEN HAD A COPY AND JUST LIKE MINUTES AFTER THEY WERE POSTED ONLINE.

HOW DOES THE PUBLIC GET HEARD WHEN THAT'S WHAT'S HAPPENING?

I MEAN THEY MAY BE ABLE TO SEE IT UNLIKE THEY'VE BEEN ABLE TO SEE IT BEFORE, BUT THEY CAN'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT.

>> WELL, DAVID, I THINK THAT'S A FAIR CRITIQUE IN THOSE OCCASIONS WHERE BILLS HAVE TO MOVE QUICKLY.

BUT THAT'S NOT SOMETHING NEW TO THIS PROCESS.

AND AS YOU JUST MENTIONED, BECAUSE THE AVAILABILITY OF ONLINE ACCESS, EVEN IF A BILL IS PUT INTO PLACE LATE, IT CAN EASILY BE CAUGHT UP WITH IN CONTENT.

SO IT'S NOT A PERFECT PROCESS, BUT IT'S BETTER THAN IT WOULD BE IF THERE WERE NO INTERNET ACCESS, AND I DON'T THINK ANYTHING HAPPENED THIS YEAR THAT HASN'T HAPPENED IN PAST YEARS, AND THAT GOES BACK TO MULTIPLE ADMINISTRATIONS.

>> SENATOR WEINBERG SAID YOU MISSED AN OPPORTUNITY, AND I MEAN THE COLLECTIVE YOU, MISSED AN OPPORTUNITY TO DO SOMETHING BIG AND LASTING BY, LIKE, PUTTING EXTRA MONEY TOWARDS NJ TRANSIT, FOR INSTANCE, WHICH IS STILL HAVING TO ROB PETER TO PAY PAUL.

IS SHE RIGHT?

>> FIRST OF ALL, I'M A LORETTA WEINBERG FAN AND FRIEND, AND SHE HAS HELPED US GET FURTHER ALONG THAN SOME THINK WE COULD HAVE GOTTEN.

BUT I WOULD POINT OUT THAT NEW JERSEY TRANSIT IS FUNDED AT A HIGHER RATE IN LAST YEAR AND IN RECENT YEARS, ESPECIALLY UNDER THE PREVIOUS ADMINISTRATION.

ALSO SITTING ON ALMOST $2 BILLION OF FEDERAL MONEY THAT THEY HAVEN'T SPENT YET AND ARE WORKING TO USE, WHICH COMES INTO PLAY.

AND THAT FEDERAL MONEY WAS DESIGNED TO TAKE PRESSURE OFF OF STATES.

SO NEW JERSEY TRANSIT, I THINK, IS WELL POSITIONED TO CONTINUE TO MAKE PROGRESS.

>> THERE WAS SOME TALK ABOUT MAYBE FINDING A SYSTEM WHEREBY YOU COULDN'T VOTE ON A BILL UNTIL A WEEK HAD PASSED BEFORE IT HAD BEEN INTRODUCED, PARTICULARLY BUDGET BILLS LIKE THAT.

IS THAT A KIND OF REFORM THAT IS PRACTICAL AND ONE THAT YOU COULD SUPPORT?

>> I DON'T KNOW IN REAL TIME HOW PRACTICAL IT IS.

ACADEMICALLY IT SOUNDS VERY GOOD.

I THINK THAT WAS ADVANCED BY MY FORMER COLLEAGUE RUNNING FOR GOVERNOR.

THE RULES THE HOUSE AND SENATE FUNCTION UNDER ARE THE RULES OF THE HOUSE AND THE SENATE.

SO THOSE THINGS ARE ALWAYS WORTH LOOKING AT AND TALKING ABOUT.

BUT, YOU KNOW, I THINK THE RULES WE HAVE IN PLACE HAVE SERVED US WELL.

BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN WE SHOULDN'T LOOK AT THINGS GOING FORWARD.

>> YOU'RE NOT OFFENDED BY THIS FLURRY OF SO-CALLED CHRISTMAS TREE ITEMS?

YOU FEEL LIKE THAT'S LEGISLATORS DELIVERING FOR CONSTITUENTS?

>> I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANY MONEY IN THIS BUDGET THAT'S GOING TO PAY FOR JUNKETS TO THE CARIBBEAN ISLANDS.

IF YOU LOOK, THE CRITICISM WAS IN THE ADDITION OF THE $1.5 BILLION THAT WAS ADDED ON COLLECTIVELY.

I'D LIKE TO REMIND PEOPLE THAT $500 MILLION OF THAT IS GOING TO OUR PENSION SYSTEM.

$100 MILLION IS GOING THROUGH EXTRAORDINARY SPECIAL EDUCATION.

$75 MILLION IS GOING TO LOCAL TRANSPORTATION PROJECTS, $40 MILLION TO CHARITY.

$35 MILLION FOR TUITION AID GRANTS, $10 MILLION FOR CANCER RESEARCH.

THE POINT IS THEY'RE ALL GOING TO THINGS THAT MATTER TO PEOPLE IN THE STATE.

>> ALL RIGHT.

$25 MILLION FOR A MUSEUM IN JERSEY CITY, SO WE'LL TAKE IT.

ALL RIGHT, ASSEMBLYMAN, THANKS FOR COMING ON.

GOOD TO SEE YOU, MAN.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

>>> LET'S BRING OUR PANEL IN HERE NOW.

SOPHIE NIETO MUNOZ IS STATEHOUSE REPORTER FOR NJ ADVANCED MEDIA.

CHARLES STILE IS POLITICAL COLUMNIST FOR THE RECORD, "USA TODAY" NETWORKS.

AND JOHN REITMEYER IS BUDGET AND FINANCE WRITER FOR NJ SPOTLIGHT NEWS.

GREAT TO SEE YOU ALL.

JOHN REITMEYER, IT OCCURRED TO ME THAT YOUR FAMOUS COUNTDOWN TO THE LOCKOUT CLOCK WAS NEVER SEEN THIS YEAR.

I GUESS BECAUSE THIS OUTCOME WAS NEVER IN DOUBT, RIGHT?

BUT YOU JUST HEARD THE ASSEMBLYMAN TALK ABOUT WHAT A LONG, STRANGE TRIP THIS BUDGET SEASON TURNED OUT TO BE.

WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ON WHAT JUST HAPPENED?

>> A LONG, STRANGE TRIP WITH VERY CRAZY AND RUSHED ENDING.

SO, YEAH, I MEAN WITHIN A FEW WEEKS AGO WE LEARNED THAT TAX REVENUES WOULD COME IN $5 BILLION HIGHER THAN THEY LAST ANTICIPATED OVER THE COURSE OF THE TWO FISCAL YEARS.

SO THAT'S A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT, MORE THAN 10% OF ANNUAL SPENDING.

AND THAT CHANGED THE WHOLE GAME.

THEN YOU ADD IN THE LANDING OF $6 BILLION TRANCHE OF FEDERAL COVID AID AND ALL OF THAT WITHIN, YOU KNOW, THE LAST MONTH OR SO.

SO ALL OF A SUDDEN THE WHOLE GAME CHANGED.

SO THE ASSEMBLYMAN'S CORRECT IN SAYING THAT THERE HAVE BEEN HEARINGS AND PROCEEDINGS GOING ON, YOU KNOW, ALL THE WAY BACK TO FEBRUARY.

HOWEVER, THE DYNAMIC JUST WITHIN THE LAST FEW WEEKS HAS CHANGED DRAMATICALLY IN THE SENSE THAT NEW JERSEY GOT ALL THIS EXTRA MONEY TO SPEND, WHAT AMASSED INTO A $10 BILLION BUDGET SURPLUS.

AND THEN ALSO THE $6 BILLION FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

AND SO HOW THAT ALL GOT DIVVIED UP WITHIN THE LAST FEW DAYS IS WHERE THE CONCERNS ABOUT TRANSPARENCY HAVE BEEN RAISED BECAUSE REALLY THERE WEREN'T ANY LEGITIMATE HEARINGS TO TALK ABOUT THE SPENDING OF THE ADDITIONAL MONEY OR THE FEDERAL DOLLARS.

THAT WAS ALL DONE BEHIND CLOSED DOORS.

THERE WERE BEHIND THE SCENES NEGOTIATIONS REALLY INVOLVING THE LEGISLATIVE LEADERS AND THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE, AND THEN IT ALL DROPPED AT NIGHT ON A MONDAY, THROUGH COMMITTEE ON A TUESDAY, AND OUT OF BOTH HOUSES BY THURSDAY AFTERNOON.

>> YOU HEAR A LOT ABOUT PUBLIC INVOLVEMENT AND A LACK OF TRANSPARENCY.

I MEAN BUT THIS SEEMS TO ME, JOHN, LIKE IT'S ALWAYS THE CASE.

DON'T WE ALWAYS HEAR EVERY YEAR HOW THE PUBLIC DID NOT HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK ENOUGH ON THIS BUDGET, OR ARE YOU SAYING THAT THIS YEAR WAS PARTICULARLY BAD IN THAT RESPECT?

>> I THINK THIS YEAR PRESENTED AN OPPORTUNITY FOR NEW JERSEY TO DO A LOT OF THINGS IT'S USUALLY NOT IN THE POSITION TO DO, AS THE ASSEMBLYMAN REFERRED TO.

NEW JERSEY IS A STATE THAT'S ALWAYS REALLY SCRAMBLING TO FIND ENOUGH RESOURCES TO COVER ALL THE PROMISES THAT GOVERNORS AND LAWMAKERS HAVE MADE.

YOU KNOW, NEW JERSEY AS A STATE, UNDERFUNDS ITS SCHOOL AID LAW.

UNTIL THIS BUDGET PROPOSAL, IT'S BEEN UNDERFUNDING ITS PUBLIC WORKER PENSION PAYMENTS.

YOU CAN GO ACROSS THE BOARD.

UNTIL THIS BUDGET, HOMESTEAD BENEFITS HAVE BEEN UNDERFUNDS.

SO USUALLY THE STATE'S SCRAMBLING FOR CASH TO COVER ALL THE PROMISES THAT HAVE BEEN MADE WHILE ALSO TRYING TO FUND SOME OF THOSE CHRISTMAS TREE ITEMS YOU TALKS TO THE ASSEMBLYMAN ABOUT.

THIS YEAR, THOUGH, THE DYNAMIC WAS ENTIRELY DIFFERENT, RIGHT?

NEW JERSEY COMING INTO THE FINAL STRETCH DRIVE FOR A NEW BUDGET FOUND OUT ITS TAX REVENUES WERE GOING TO BE $5 BILLION HIGHER THAN IT HAD LAST THOUGHT.

YOU KNOW, MORE THAN 10% OF ANNUAL SPENDING AND HAD JUST RECEIVED A TRANCHE OF FEDERAL AID OF ANOTHER $6 BILLION.

AND SO THAT PROVIDED AN OPPORTUNITY FOR THE STATE TO REALLY DO SOME THINGS.

AND, LOOK, YOU KNOW, FUNDING THE PENSION SYSTEM OVER THE FULL AMOUNT REQUIRED BY ACT WARIES, THAT -- SETTING ASIDE MONEY TO PAY DOWN DEBT ESPECIALLY WHEN THE INTEREST RATE SCENARIO RIGHT NOW IS A FAIRLY FAVORABLE ONE.

THAT'S ANOTHER ONE THAT, YOU KNOW, TAKES ADVANTAGE OF AN OPPORTUNITY.

BUT I THINK THE CRITICISM IS YOU HAVE SOME OF THE KEY DECISIONS BEING MADE EFFECTIVELY BY THREE PEOPLE WITH THE SAME BACKGROUND.

AND THE IDEA IS THAT, YOU KNOW, SOMETHING THAT MIGHT BE MEANINGFUL TO SOMEBODY WITH A DIFFERENT BACKGROUND ISN'T PART OF THAT CONVERSATION.

AND I THINK THAT'S WHERE YOU'VE HEARD SOME OF THE CRITICISM, AND I THINK IT'S FAIR CRITICISM.

>> PERSPECTIVES.

CHARLIE, A POLITICAL BUDGET IN AN ELECTION YEAR FULL OF ICE CREAM AND CANDY OR A SERIOUS SPENDING PLAN REFLECTING THE STATE'S PRIORITIES?

WHICH OF THOSE?

>> I THINK IT'S BOTH, BUT -- AND I HEARD THE ASSEMBLYMAN TALK ABOUT THIS DEFENDING THE PROCESS, AND IT'S REALLY STRIKING HOW ALL THREE -- BOTH THE ASSEMBLY, SENATE, AND THE GOVERNOR HIMSELF ARE ALL ON MESSAGE IN DEFENDING THE ALLEGED TRANSPARENCY OF THE PROCESS.

BUT IN REALITY, YOU KNOW, WHAT THEY'RE NOT MENTIONING IS THAT SOME OF THE MOST SIGNIFICANT DEVELOPMENTS OF THE BUDGET WERE CUT IN THE BACK ROOM AND PUT ON A PLATTER AND PUT ON A COMMITTEE HEARING TABLE.

AND AT THE LAST MINUTE, AND WE'RE GIVEN 12 MINUTES OF ALLEGED DEBATE IN THE SENATE BEFORE THEY SEND IT OFF FOR FINAL PROCESSING.

AND WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THINGS LIKE THE DEFEASANCE PROJECT, WHICH IS REALLY, YEAH, WE'RE GOING TO PAY DOWN DEBT WITH THAT IN A, QUOTE, UNQUOTE, LOCKBOX, WHICH SOUNDS ONE OF THOSE ORWELLIAN TERMS, WHICH WE SAW THAT WITH SOCIAL SECURITY IN THE 1990s, AND WE KNOW HOW THAT WORKED.

IT DIDN'T.

AND THEN, YOU KNOW, PART OF THAT PROPOSAL INCLUDES ESSENTIALLY A SLUSH FUND TO PAY FOR OTHER PROJECTS.

AND THEN THERE'S SUPPORT.

THE REALITY IS THEY TACK ON ALL OF THESE UNJUSTIFIABLE OR QUESTIONABLE FUNDING FOR PROJECTS ALL OVER THE STATE, AND THE LAST THING THEY WANT TO DO IS FACE CITIZENS OR RESIDENTS OR ADVOCATES AND HAVE TO EXPLAIN WHY HOPEWELL TOWNSHIP NEEDS A $500,000 APPROPRIATION FOR A BAND SHELL.

IT WAS REALLY, YOU KNOW, DISAPPOINTING EXPERIENCE.

AND THE OTHER THING I WANT TO SAY ABOUT IT IS, IT COMES AMID THIS ZEITGEIST WHERE THE PARTY -- THERE'S MORE DEMAND FOR TRANSPARENCY.

AND IT ALSO COMES AT A TIME WHEN PUBLIC ATTITUDES TOWARDS GOVERNMENT AND ITS ABILITY TO FUNCTION ARE AT AN ALL-TIME LOW.

>> SOPHIE, WHO'S THE BIG WINNER HERE, OR ON THE OTHER SIDE, WHO LOST OUT?

>> I THINK WE SAW YESTERDAY THAT PROGRESSIVE GROUPS, YOU KNOW, TYPICALLY WHO FALL IN LINE AND ARE VERY SUPPORTIVE OF WHAT MURPHY DOES, THEY'RE REALLY, REALLY UPSET WITH EVERYTHING THAT'S BEEN EXCLUDED.

I MEAN YOU LOOK AT UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANTS.

THEY DIDN'T GET MORE FUNDS IN THIS.

SOME MONEY FOR PUBLIC HOSPITALS, THAT DIDN'T GET PUT INTO THIS.

MONEY FOR -- MORE MONEY FOR NJ TRANSIT AS YOU TALKED ABOUT IS NOT BEING PUT INTO THIS.

AND THIS WAS A CHANCE TO FIX SOME OF THESE ISSUES THAT HAVE BEEN TALKED ABOUT FOR YEARS AND DECADES, AND THESE PROGRESSIVE GROUPS REALLY FEEL LIKE IT'S A MISSED OPPORTUNITY THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN DONE AT SUCH A CRUCIAL TIME IN OUR STATE'S HISTORY AND OUR RECOVERY.

>> AND BEING FLUSH WITH SO MUCH CASH BECAUSE A LOT OF TIMES, YOU'LL SEE THESE LIBERAL GROUPS ESSENTIALLY MAKE THE SAME COMPLAINT EVERY YEAR ABOUT NOT GETTING HELP FROM THE STATE.

BUT THIS YEAR IT WAS EVEN MORE DRAMATIC BECAUSE OF THIS $10 BILLION THAT WAS LYING AROUND, NO?

>> YEAH, DEFINITELY.

AND THAT'S SOMETHING THAT, YOU KNOW, PARTICULARLY WITH THE UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANTS, PAUL SARLO, THE SENATE BUDGET CHAIR, SAID YESTERDAY THAT HE THINKS THE $40 MILLION THAT WAS PUT ASIDE THROUGH THE EXECUTIVE ORDER ADDRESSES THE CONCERNS OF UNDOCUMENTED WORKERS AND EXCLUDED WORKERS WHO HAVEN'T COLLECTED UNEMPLOYMENT OR STIMULUS CHECKS.

BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, THAT $40 MILLION IS ONLY GOING TO HELP ABOUT 10% OF THOSE UNDOCUMENTED WORKERS.

SO THEY THOUGHT THIS WAS GOING TO BE, ONCE THEY SAW THE $10 BILLION WINDFALL, THAT THIS WAS GOING TO BE THE TIME TO COME THROUGH FOR THOSE PEOPLE, AND IT JUST DID NOT HAPPEN YET AGAIN.

>> JOHN, WE WERE TALKING ABOUT HOW, YOU KNOW, THE INK WASN'T EVEN DRY ON SOME OF THESE BILLS THAT WERE BEING READ AND VOTED ON DURING THE BUDGET COMMITTEE HEARINGS.

IF I'M A NEW JERSEY RESIDENT, THAT'S GOT TO GIVE ME PAUSE.

I MEAN $46 BILLION.

YOU KNOW, WE HAVE A WEEK TO GO BEFORE THE END OF THE FISCAL YEAR.

WE'VE GOT A WEEK.

WE COULD HAVE GIVEN PEOPLE AN OPPORTUNITY TO AT LEAST COMMENT, READ, SUGGEST, NO?

>> $46 BILLION, BUT REALLY OVER $50 BILLION IN TOTAL RESOURCES.

SO, YOU KNOW, THAT MONEY THAT'S BEING SET ASIDE FOR DEBT ISN'T EVEN SCORED AS SPENDING EVEN THOUGH, YOU KNOW, IT WILL BE SPENT UNDER THE LEGISLATION THEY PASSED.

AND THEN, YOU KNOW, ANOTHER ALMOST $2 BILLION SET ASIDE AS RESERVES, WHICH YOU HAVE TO HAVE RESERVES WHEN YOU RUN A BUDGET AS LARGE AS NEW JERSEY'S.

AND WE'RE GOING TO BE UNDER ABOUT 5% OF TOTAL SPENDING, WHICH WILL PUT NEW JERSEY ONCE AGAIN ON THE LOW END OF HAVING ADEQUATE RESERVES.

AND WHEN THE STATE RUNS OUT, IT HAS TO DO CUTS LIKE IT DID LAST YEAR WITH HOMESTEAD BENEFITS.

SO, YEAH, I MEAN THE IDEA THAT THE BUDGET BILL WAS POSTED ONLINE FOR THE PUBLIC TO READ, AT THE VERY END OF BUDGET COMMITTEE HEARINGS, THAT I GUESS SOMEBODY IS SUPPOSED TO BE DRIVING TO TRENTON, READING THE BUDGET MAYBE ON A PHONE, AND THEN GETTING THEMSELVES SIGNED UP TO TESTIFY.

YOU JUST THINK ABOUT THE ABSURDITY OF IF YOU WERE REALLY HOPING TO GET PUBLIC INPUT, RIGHT, AND HAVE THE PUBLIC COME IN AND SAY, YOU KNOW, HEY, MAYBE WE LIKE ALL THESE THINGS THAT YOU'VE DONE.

THESE ARE ALL GREAT THINGS.

HOW WOULD YOU KNOW?

AND, YEAH, THE GOVERNOR'S BUDGET WAS THERE TO VIEW FOR MONTHS, BUT A LOT CHANGED AS CHARLIE NOTED IN THE LAST FEW WEEKS, AND A LOT OF THINGS WERE ADDED IN.

MAYBE THINGS DESERVING -- MAYBE THINGS THAT HAVE MERIT, BUT WE JUST DIDN'T REALLY HAVE A CHANCE TO EVALUATE THEM.

AND IF YOU'RE A MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC -- AND I THINK CHARLIE HIT A HOME RUN ON THAT POINT.

THINK ABOUT THE TIME THAT WE'RE IN RIGHT NOW.

I MEAN THE THINGS THAT PEOPLE SHARE WITH ME ON SOCIAL MEDIA ABOUT THEIR FEELINGS ABOUT GOVERNMENT, AND IF YOU'RE TRULY TRYING TO SAY, WE WANT TO BE RESPONSIVE AND HAVE INPUT FROM OUR CONSTITUENTS, I MEAN, YOU KNOW, THAT JUST DIDN'T HAPPEN.

>> CHARLIE, HAS IT ALWAYS BEEN IN THIS WAY?

YOU TALKED ABOUT THE SYSTEMS, UNEMPLOYMENT, MOTOR VEHICLES, NJ TRANSIT THAT ARE RUNNING ON ANTIQUATED SOFTWARE AND COMPUTERS FROM THE 1970s.

IS THIS BUDGET GOING TO DO ANYTHING FOR THEM?

>> WELL, I THINK SOPHIE COULD PROBABLY ADDRESS THAT AS WELL.

BUT FRANKLY, NO.

AND I THINK THE BIG EXCUSES.

YOU KNOW, THERE'S FEDERAL MONEY THAT COULD COME TO THE RESCUE, SO THEY PUT IN THESE TOKEN AMOUNTS FOR ESSENTIALLY SOFTWARE UPGRADES.

I MEAN THIS IS -- WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A SYSTEM -- SYSTEMS THAT NEED TO BE BLOWN UP AND REPAIRED AND WITH SIGNIFICANT CAPITAL EXPENDITURE, AND THEY JUST TOOK A WHIFF.

I JUST WANT TO ALSO SAY ONE THING THAT THIS BUDGET REALLY REVEALS IS WHAT A TIMID DEMOCRATIC PARTY THIS IS.

THEY HAVE ENORMOUS MAJORITIES IN BOTH HOUSES.

THEY HAVE ENORMOUS ADVANTAGE IN REGISTRATION AND FUND-RAISING.

THEY'RE NOT GOING TO LOSE CONTROL OF THE HOUSE, OR EITHER HOUSE COME NOVEMBER.

GOOD CHANCE THAT WE'LL HAVE A DEMOCRATIC GOVERNOR, AND THEY WERE AFRAID TO DO ANYTHING RISKY AS SOPHIE MENTIONED.

THEY TOOK A PASS ON THE IMMIGRANT COMMUNITY, AND EVERY EVALUATION SHOWS THAT THAT WAS ONLY, AGAIN, A TOKEN AMOUNT FOR PEOPLE WHO WORKED AND WERE EXPOSED AND LOST A LOT DURING THE CRISIS.

AND, YES, IF YOU WANT TO HAVE A POLICY DEBATE ABOUT IMMIGRATION, FINE.

BUT IT'S IN EVERYBODY'S INTEREST TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY ARE SAFE AND STABLE.

AND SO DEMOCRATS, YOU THINK THEY WOULD COME TO THE RESCUE AND SPEND SOME POLITICAL CAPITAL.

THEY WHIFFED, AND IT JUST SHOWS YOU THAT THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY, WHILE THE PARTY MAY BE LURCHING TO THE LEFT NATIONALLY, HERE IT'S ACTUALLY CENTER RIGHT.

>> SOPHIE, THERE WAS OTHER STUFF THAT WASN'T SPECIFICALLY BUDGET-RELATED LIKE MOVEMENT ON EVICTIONS, I.C.E.

CONTRACTS.

DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING TO SHARE ON THOSE?

>> YEAH.

I MEAN THERE'S A LOT GOING ON ON TOP OF THE BUDGET, ESPECIALLY IN TERMS OF HOUSING.

THE EVICTION MORATORIUM LOOKS LIKE IT COULD BE COMING TO AN END FOR SOME FAMILIES EARLIER THAN EXPECTED.

THIS IS, YOU KNOW, AFTER MONTHS OF THESE HOUSING ADVOCACY GROUPS AND LANDLORD GROUPS TALKING ABOUT HOW TO NOT HAVE THE TSUNAMI OF EVICTIONS AFTER SO MANY MONTHS OF PEOPLE NOT PAYING RENT, AND WHAT THIS IS GOING TO DO IS HOPEFULLY FIX THAT.

IT'S GOING TO TURN UNPAID RENT INTO CIVIL DEBT SO THAT THEY CAN'T BE -- YOU CAN'T USE THAT UNPAID MONEY TO BE -- A LANDLORD CAN'T FILE AN EVICTION AGAINST THEM ANYMORE BASICALLY.

AND THAT'S GOING TO PUT $500 MILLION TO THE DCI, WHICH IS GOING TO BE REALLY HELPFUL.

THAT'S THE BIGGEST POT OF MONEY THAT RENTERS WILL SEE IN THIS WHOLE TIME.

WITH I.C.E.

CONTRACTS, THAT'S ANOTHER BIG HISTORIC MOVEMENT.

WE'RE GOING TO BE THE FIRST STATE POTENTIALLY TO BAN LOCAL JAILS FROM HOLDING IMMIGRANT DETAINEES.

CALIFORNIA IS A STATE THAT IS REALLY THE ONLY OTHER STATE THAT HAS SOMETHING SO COMPREHENSIVE.

AND OUR FACILITIES ARE ALREADY ON THE WAY OF NOT HOLDING THESE DETAINEES ANYMORE.

WE SAW ESSEX COUNTY ALREADY SAY THAT THEY ARE NOT -- THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE A NEW CONTRACT.

>> RIGHT.

>> BERGEN COUNTY ALREADY SAID THAT THEY'RE GOING TO LOOK TO CUT THEIR -- THEY'RE NOT ACCEPTING ANY NEW DETAINEES.

HUDSON COUNTY WANTS TO GET OUT OF THEIR CONTRACT.

SO I THINK THAT THIS WAS REALLY PROPELLED IN THE LAST MONTH AFTER ESSEX COUNTY SAID THAT THEY WERE GOING TO CUT THEIR CONTRACT, BUT IT'S REALLY A STUNNING MOVE TO SEE HAPPEN SO FAST AFTER IT WAS INTRODUCED SIX MONTHS AGO, MAKES IT THROUGH IN A MONTH, AND IT'S JUST SOMETHING I DID NOT EXPECT TO HAPPEN IN THIS BUDGET MESS SEASON THING.

>> ALL RIGHT.

CHARLIE, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE YOU BRING IT HOME FOR US.

ON CHAT BOX THIS WEEK, WE ASKED ABOUT THE LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR PICK.

HAVE YOU BEEN HEARING ANYTHING ON THIS, AND HOW IMPORTANT IS THE PICK TO HIM?

20 SECONDS.

>> I THINK HE NEEDS TO PICK A MODERATE REPUBLICAN WHO DOESN'T FRIGHTEN SUBURBAN VOTERS AND PREFERABLY PROBABLY A WOMAN GIVEN THE HISTORIC GENDER GAP IN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY AND ONE THAT WAS EXACERBATED BY TRUMP.

>> ALL RIGHT.

WELL DONE, CHARLES STILES.

SOPHIE NIETO MUNOZ, JOHN REITMEYER, THANKS FOR COMING ON WITH US.

THAT'S GOING TO BE "REPORTERS ROUNDTABLE" FOR THIS WEEK.

WE'RE OFF NEXT WEEK FOR THE HOLIDAY, SO IT'S OKAY TO MAKE OTHER PLANS.

YOU CAN FOLLOW ME ON TWITTER @DAVIDCRUZNJ.

AND BE SURE TO DESCRIBE TO THE YOUTUBE CHANNEL FOR MORE CONTENT.

I'M DAVID CRUZ.

FOR THE ENTIRE CREW HERE, THANKS FOR WATCHING.

SEE YOU IN A COUPLE WEEKS.

>>> MAJOR FUNDING FOR "REPORTERS ROUNDTABLE" WITH DAVID CRUZ IS PROVIDED BY -- NEW JERSEY REALTORS, THE VOICE FOR REAL ESTATE IN NEW JERSEY.

MORE INFORMATION IS ONLINE AT NJREALTOR.COM.

RWJ BARNABAS HEALTH.

LET'S BE HEALTHY TOGETHER.

AND BY NJM INSURANCE GROUP, SERVING THE INSURANCE NEEDS OF NEW JERSEY RESIDENTS AND BUSINESSES FOR MORE THAN 100 YEARS.

PROMOTIONAL SUPPORT IS PROVIDED BY NEW JERSEY BUSINESS MAGAZINE, THE MAGAZINE OF THE NEW JERSEY BUSINESS AND INDUSTRY ASSOCIATION, REPORTING TO EXECUTIVE AND LEGISLATIVE LEADERS IN ALL 21 COUNTIES OF THE GARDEN STATE SINCE 1954.

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