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♪ David: Hey everybody.

Welcome to Chat Box.

I'm David Cruz.

We are just a few days away from Governor Murphy's annual budget address.

It's always pins and needles time for school districts.

We begin with the pressures facing our environment.

Political, economic and human.

DEP Commissioner has been in the middle of it all lately and he joins us now.

Good to see you again.

Welcome to the show.

>> good to see you as well.

Thanks for having me.

David: top of the list of things I want to talk about is the latest on liberty state park in the plan.

You have a hearing coming up in March.

That is a rescheduled meeting from one that was set for a few weeks ago.

We saw Bob Hurley the former basketball coach pressing an agenda for a major sports facility at the park, and a plan to flood the park.

It looks like opponents of your plan are out there, Commissioner, and they have a billionaire financing them.

>> First of all, I have to say that liberty state park is as many know the crown Jim of our state park services, but it's a rough cut gem.

It's one we have to invest into better sign for the benefit of all of New Jersey's residents and for the communities we serve , including the host community here in Jersey City.

There is nothing more important to me than deep community engagement so we can show we are being directly responsible to the needs of the community that we serve.

I'm at my Jersey state office -- Jersey City office in Liberty State Park.

That we will improve for the benefit of the state.

We have to be mindful of some of the issues that Coach Hurley and others are pointing out about the lack of adequate recreational capacity in the city of Jersey City.

We have the ability to help solve for some of that.

But we also have to be honest, deeply honest, that we cannot solve the needs of this open space constrained the city and County just here at Liberty State Park.

That's why we through the Murphy administration have invested so much in providing more capacity for local parks development programs, city led, school board led to help all those organizations improve recreational spaces.

We do a good amount of added space here.

David: it's also an expansion of the mission of state parks in Jersey City.

You are going to be providing more recreational access and facilities than probably any other state park.

These parks are generally nature preserves.

If you wouldn't mind touching on this question about flooding the interior of the park.

Because that really touches on a lot of things including environmental justice which we are going to talk about in a little bit.

Talk about what flooding the park really means.

>> First of all, no one is going to flood.

David: no flooding.

>> There is flooding in Jersey City and liberty state park.

There is flooding in the community that is just west of Liberty State Park.

What we will do in the very first phase of our revitalization program is deploy a nature-based flood resilience project that will provide relief from flooding, not because of flooding.

It's clear that misinformation about this plan is being circulated.

I don't want to speculate about by whom or for what ends.

But the reality is that the DEP, which is the state flood engineering expert, we deploy flood resilience solutions all across New Jersey.

We would never undertake an action that would cause flooding in this park or elsewhere.

What we will do is engineer with nature and create a flood resistance nature-based infrastructure project at the heart of Liberty State Park and that project will also be inviting to the public providing recreational opportunities, trails and running paths and opportunities to engage with nature.

No flooding will be caused.

That is to be clear, a point of disinformation.

David: not to sound like a spokesperson for the DEP, but the idea is that creating these wetlands inside the park helps get the water to go somewhere other than monitor Street just west of the park.

I know it's obvious that this is a personal thing with me.

Full disclosure on that one.

>> I appreciate that.

Let's just be clear about one thing.

What we will create is over 160 acres of a nature-based flood resilience solution that is not standing open water.

There is only roughly 7 acres of standing open water in this design.

It does provide a place for water to go.

With the pace and to vent -- density in this area, we have not provided enough place for the water to go.

David: a lot of talk in recent weeks also about the problems with the lead water pipe abatement project.

A lot of money went into that.

Now we learned some contractors had missed some led components.

That's got to give a lot of towns across the state pause.

>> I think this is a reflection of the DEP, the EPA, the city of Newark doing its job to ensure that the work that was promised was done correctly and that we ensure the complete removal of all led components.

What's important to understand is that lead service lines can be complicated.

They are a historic element of our older cities in particular.

When a lead service line is replaced, it is certainly possible that a component may remain that is lead.

That's why the fact that lead service lines have been removed in the city of Newark and other cities and towns all throughout New Jersey.

In the state of New Jersey, unlike under federal law, a partial lead service line replacement is not allowed.

Our lot requires full replacement.

We found a few instances where some components were left on the street side.

Meaning between the curb and the water main.

David: how big a problem is it?

And how does it impact the water in New York and assuage the fears of other communities that are going to have to deal with this?

>> This is not a cause for panic.

Public health in the city of Newark is protected.

Newarkers can have faith in the water coming out of their pipes.

We have optimized corrosion control.

Even after service lines are replaced, there still may be lead components, particularly in older homes.

Corrosion control treatment provides continuing protection.

That would protect a resident if any lead component remained in their service line.

That said, we have got to get them out anyway and we will be sure to do so.

At this point, we don't think this is a citywide problem.

But are further narrowing it down and those who may have acted incorrectly will be held fully accountable.

David: we saw the first lady come out against the Passaic Valley sewage commission power plant.

That has been a few years brewing.

When do we stick a fork into what a lot of people say is an unnecessary project?

>> I think you know how deeply important environmental justice is to me.

I worked tirelessly with Senator Troy Singleton to pass the most empowering environmental justice law in the nation.

We are in the midst of litigation fighting those who would oppose that law that are appealing its rules to the appellate court in the state of New Jersey.

I believe it will be successful there.

Environmental justice remains a key priority for this administration.

For me personally.

I am a professor of environmental justice at Rutgers Law school.

What's important with respect to this instance, there is only one entity that will decide whether this project would move forward.

That is the Passaic Valley sewerage commission.

It is not a state run water utility.

It is a regional utility.

The 48 municipalities that make it up will decide whether or not they wish for the DEP to continue evaluating the permit that has been put before the DEP.

Our evaluation of that is not yet complete.

While I certainly respect and admire the first lady and respect her candidacy for the Senate, what is important is that this is a decision that is locally made.

The 48 municipalities will decide whether they want this project to continue.

There is one thing you can be absolutely certain of.

I will apply if this permit application continues to move forward, I will apply the spirit and the intent of the environmental justice law.

That means any resulting permit cannot allow any disproportionate impact to follow up on this already overburdened community.

There must be mechanisms in place that would protect the public health and improve baseline conditions in this community.

You can be assured that if this does proceed further at the will of those communities that I will apply my maximum authority to this matter.

David: thanks for taking a few minutes to be with us today.

As we said, budget season is always fraught for schools, especially those on the financial edge.

Our next guest has made school funding a big part of his agenda.

I thought he was on budget committee all this time.

Now he chairs the Senate education committee.

What is the big fight on education and who is winning and who is losing?

>> A lot of things have changed.

We have seen that the funding formula cannot be based on enrollment and property values.

We've got milk until health -- we've got mental health costs, transportation costs.

That's going to be a priority of the committee.

David: that's going to be something the legislature handles.

>> The acting education commissioner knows the formula in and out.

He's one of the experts on it.

I think this is going to be good timing for us all to come collectively together.

The school district that's losing money now shouldn't be held accountable for decisions made by a school board and superintendent 15 years ago.

How that should negatively impact kids now it doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

David: how does that get changed?

Is it a legislative process?

>> We are looking to have a hearing very soon.

The number one driving factor is mental health costs.

We have 600 school districts that all tackle mental health differently.

Some have social workers on site, others don't have anything.

One of the thing that Senate President Sweeney really pushed for it that didn't happen after he left is making sure the state moves extraordinary special education funding 100% to the state.

Families should not be moving school district to school districts depending on the special ed programs.

David: this is something Steve Sweeney used to talk about, school regionalization.

How much energy is into that effort?

>> We are seeing it.

We just saw in Monmouth County.

It's the old saying about New Jersey is home rule.

And everybody loves the idea of consolidation, just don't do it in my backyard.

Everybody hates Congress, but they always vote for their own congressperson.

That part of the challenge is trying to understand that there are cost savings.

I think the administration and the governor did focus on it early on and it is something they should look at again as they finish out there two years.

David: for people who don't have kids in school systems, this can become abstract.

What does it mean when a school has taken unfair advantage of the formula and school district that loses?

>> I don't know if anybody is taking an unfair advantage.

David: probably a bad choice of words, but you know what I mean.

>> If they are gaining funding, their enrollment is going through the roof.

Freehold Borough had cardboard boxes separating their classrooms.

They didn't have a library in the school.

This is a challenge of having 600 individual school districts.

We will have a unique opportunity in 2024 to get this right.

This is the end of SFRA.

We can't have school districts losing millions of dollars and having to cut programs.

We know the worst thing that can happen is an increase in class sizes.

Everyone has to be doing similar programs.

You can't have one school that has extraordinary music and art program and the other has absolutely nothing and they are two miles away from each other.

David: there's a reliance on local taxes.

There is a bill I'm not sure what its status is that gives some municipalities the opportunity to exceed the local tax rate.

Explain that a little if you would.

>> this is a bill that passed on a bipartisan vote.

If your school district is losing significant funding and the Board of Education for one year only wants to increase the cap, the residence that came I believe was South Brunswick.

There's probably 30 or 40 parents there.

That is something they want.

They don't want to lose that.

I think that's going to be something that is there.

But that's just a Band-Aid, not a long-term solution.

David: there is another bill that's out there aimed at updating the learning laws that started during the pandemic and continues to this day.

Tell us where that is and where you stand on it.

>> Senator Ruiz has really championed this issue.

She has a literacy package she just put out.

We were hoping that high dosage tutoring would play a big role.

We put money in the budget.

Unfortunately the Department of Education only started rolling this out very recently.

I want to say in December.

It should have been way earlier than that.

Governor spoke about it last January.

We need to get moving.

Kids are behind in the state of New Jersey because of COVID, because of the lack of in person education in math, reading, writing and a number of areas.

We cannot lose this generation of kids because of the COVID pandemic.

That's what's happening right now.

I applaud Senator Ruiz and everything she's doing.

I'm hopeful that over the next 12 months, we can really put a chip and combat in the state.

David: you mentioned the budget loss -- what are you hoping to hear from the governor?

>> A focus on NJ transit.

I was very disappointed with the recent fare hikes.

I want to make sure there is some kind of long-term sustainable funding.

It's a very regressive tax to ask riders to pay more and not get better services.

It is still the worst time to come.

I hope there is something in the budget as it focuses on NJ transit making it what it should be.

With the governor said he was going to do in 2018 was fix NJ transit if it killed him.

We have to create a bigger umbrella so more people in the state are comfortable using it and ridership increases.

David: everybody likes talking about it but nobody wants to do anything about it.

What kind of source can you suggest?

Do you believe the corporate business tax surcharge should be reinstated?

>> I think everything should be on the table.

If corporate business tax itself is very wide-ranging and affects corporations of all sizes, something more narrow or focused at the very top earners who have shown record profits.

We have had a number of companies that do that.

My one concern with the CBT broadly is it captures a lot of folks in that tax.

A lot of medium-size businesses are trying to create a footprint and it could negatively impact that.

Given the situation we are in, I think you have to put everything on the table.

David: the chairman of the Chamber of Commerce said he thought it might be a good idea to increase the sales tax in the state as a way of putting even more money into the pot for potentially funding NJ transit.

What do you think of that?

>> I don't love increasing regressive taxes.

Those type of taxes affect working-class families.

The people most likely trying to make it work in a very expensive climate with inflation.

I'm not a fan of any type of regressive tax like that.

David: are we still debating book bands in New Jersey in 2020 four?

That's a thing in your district.

>> I don't know if it's in my district, but it's definitely in my state.

I tried to give well-meaning advice, I shouldn't give advice to the opposing political party.

They just had an election where they got wiped out because they focused on transgender issues in schools and whales and dolphins dying, and I lost by one of the largest landslides in a midterm.

If the Republican Party wants to get taken seriously in the state , they should probably focus on taxes and affordability and issues they used to be successful on.

My friends on my side say why are you telling the Republicans this, it's not good for democracy.

We have to bring people back to discussing issues.

We don't ban books here.

Our books are age-appropriate.

If there's a book that is not, they will go through the process of removing that book.

This is not new all of a sudden in the last one or two years.

But it makes me nervous based on history.

Based on every aspect of history when you have any group of residents who are in the habit of pushing to ban books.

David: we talked about this last week.

Monmouth County was at the center of the political universe a couple weeks ago.

It turned out to be a good weekend for Andy Kim.

How is that race progressing right now?

Is Andy Kim the front runner?

>> The polls have indicated that he is the front runner.

I think they are probably even.

The enjoys a lot of establishment support in North Jersey -- the first lady enjoys a lot of establishment support in North Jersey.

I have known both candidates for a while and they both have really strong skill sets.

David: still a lot of race to go.

Also a lot to go for governor.

He jumped into the race this week.

What do you know about him as a candidate?

>> He's a great or greater, great speaker.

Looking forward to seeing his platform.

I have met with him a couple times.

Looking forward to seeing what he runs on and how that is going to directly affect Monmouth County residents.

>> Senator Vigneault Paul, thanks for coming on.

That's Chat Box for this week.

Thanks to Commissioner Shawn LaTourette for joining us.

You can follow me on X at David Cruz.

I'm David Cruz.

For all the crew here, thanks for watching.

We will see you next week.

Announcer: Major funding for "Chat Box with David Cruz" is provided by the members of the New Jersey Education Association, making public schools great for every child.

Promotional support is provided by Insider NJ, a political intelligence network dedicated to New Jersey's political news.

Insider NJ is committed to giving serious political players an interactive forum for ideas, discussion, and insight.

Online at insiderNJ.com.

♪