>> FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS PROVIDED BY VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

>> Gene: THIS WEEK ON NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS CALL FOR CHANGE IN THE STATE GOP.

WHY SOME LAWMAKERS SAY PARTY LEADERSHIP NEEDS TO TAKE THE BLAME FOR ITS FAILURES IN THE MIDTERM AND... >> LaSeck: WE WANT TO CREATE THIS ENVIRONMENT WHERE WE HAVE GOT HOUSING AND WE HAVE GOT PEOPLE AND WITHOUT THE ABILITY TO BUILD MORE HOUSING, YOU KNOW, IT REALLY LIMITS THAT.

>> Gene: PERSPECTIVE FROM PROPERTY OWNERS AS A STATE LAWMAKER INTRODUCES ACTION ON RENT CONTROL.

NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS STARTS NOW.

THANKS FOR JOINING US THIS WEEK.

I AM YOUR HOST, GENE GRANT.

A LACK OF AFFORDABLE HOUSING HAS BEEN A GROWING CONCERN FOR YEARS IN THE CITY OF ALBUQUERQUE.

NOW AFTER A YEAR OF ECONOMIC UNCERTAINTY AND NEAR RECORD INFLATION, RENTAL PRICES ARE SOARING.

LAST MONTH, I SPOKE WITH AN ALBUQUERQUE CITY COUNCILOR WHO WANTED TO REVISIT THE CONSIDERATION AROUND RENT CONTROL.

NOW A STATE SENATOR IS TAKING UP THE CALL.

IN THE SECOND HALF OF THE SHOW, I TALK WITH A LEADER IN THE RENTAL INDUSTRY ABOUT WHAT RENT CONTROL WOULD MEAN FROM THEIR PERSPECTIVE.

LATER IN THE SHOW, WE WILL EXPLORE THE GROWING LIST OF PUBLIC HEALTH CONCERNS AS WE APPROACH WINTER.

HOSPITALS ARE SEEING AN INFLUX OF PATIENT WITH RSV AND WE ARE STILL SEEING THREATS FROM COVID-19 AND THE FLU.

I'LL ASK THE LINE PANELISTS WHAT PRECAUTIONS WE SHOULD BE TAKING, BUT WE START IN THE POLITICAL ARENA WHERE THE STATE GOP IS GRAPPLING WITH CRITICISM OVER LOSSES IN THE MIDTERM ELECTION.

LET'S GET TO THE LINE.

THE NEW MEXICO REPUBLICAN PARTY HAS A LOT ON ITS PLATE AFTER A DISAPPOINTING MIDTERM ELECTION.

PARTY CHAIR STEVE PEARCE IS FACING CALLS FOR HIS RESIGNATION, WHILE THE PARTY MANAGES A LAWSUIT OVER THE NEW LINES FOR CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT 2.

LET'S INTRODUCE OUR LINE OPINION PANELISTS FOR THE WEEK.

LIVE IN STUDIO, FIRST WE HAVE MICHAEL BIRD, A PUBLIC HEALTH CONSULTANT AND FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE AMERICAN PUBLIC HEALTH ASSOCIATION.

WE ARE ALSO PLEASED TO BE JOINED BY MERRITT ALLEN OF VOX OPTIMA PUBLIC RELATIONS AND AS WELL EDMUND PEREA, AN ATTORNEY AND PUBLIC SAFETY CONSULTANT.

IT IS GREAT TO HAVE YOU ALL BACK HERE IN PERSON.

NOW WE ARE GOING TO START WITH THE STATE GOP AND CALLS FOR A CHANGE IN LEADERSHIP.

MERRITT YOU HAVE BEEN CONSISTENT ON THIS OVER THE WEEKS THAT HAVE FOLLOWED THE ELECTION.

WE NOW HAVE AN ALLEGED FICTITIOUS LETTER CIRCULATING AROUND GOP CIRCLES CALLING FOR MR. PEARCE'S REMOVAL.

FUNDAMENTALLY, WHAT IS THE AX TO GRIND HERE?

WHAT DIDN'T LEADERSHIP DO HERE THAT MADE THIS CALL SO LOUD AT THIS POINT?

>> Merritt: WELL, I THINK THE ISSUE IS WE HAVE NO STATE-WIDE OFFICES.

WE HAVE NO MEMBERS OF THE CONGRESSIONAL DELEGATION.

WE HAVE 25 OF 70 SEATS IN THE STATE LEGISLATURE.

IN 2014 REPUBLICANS HELD A MAJORITY IN THE STATE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, SO WHAT HAS HAPPENED?

YOU KNOW, IF YOU LOOK AT THE NUMBERS IN 2014 ABOUT 31% OF THE STATE VOTER REGISTRATION WAS REPUBLICAN.

IN 2022, ABOUT 31% OF THE STATE VOTER REGISTRATION IS REPUBLICAN.

SO, WE HAVEN'T LOST REPUBLICAN NUMBERS.

INDEPENDENTS HAVE GONE UP BUT THOSE HAVE TAKEN AWAY FROM DEMOCRATS.

SO WHAT IS HAPPENING, INDEPENDENTS ARE DECIDING OUR ELECTIONS.

THAT IS THE REALITY.

22% OF THE STATE VOTER REGISTRATION ARE INDEPENDENT OR DECLINED TO STATE, AS WE CALL THEM.

THEY ARE DECIDING OUR ELECTIONS.

REPUBLICAN MESSAGES ARE NOT REACHING INDEPENDENT VOTERS IN NEW MEXICO.

THAT IS A REALITY.

SO, THE NUMBER OF REPUBLICAN LEGISLATIVE SEATS HAVE DECLINED SINCE 2016 DOWN TO 2020, THEY REMAINED ABOUT THE SAME IN 2022.

STATE-WIDE OFFICES HAVE -- WE HAD THE BLUE TSUNAMI.

I WAS HERE IN THE STUDIO WHEN THIS HAPPENED IN 2018, HAS NOT GOTTEN BETTER.

WHAT IS HAPPENING WITH NMGOP IS NOT WORKING WITH INDEPENDENTS.

WHAT IS ALSO HAPPENED, A NATIONAL COLUMNIST REFERRED TO IT SOMEWHERE WITHIN THE GOP IT FEELS LIKE WITH MIDTERMS A FEVER HAS BROKEN.

AND WHAT I KIND OF REFER TO AS THE "ANGERTAINMENT" MESSAGE, AS LONG AS I AM SHOUTING, I AM PERSUADING.

THAT HAS KIND OF STOPPED AND CONSERVATIVES AS WELL AS VOTERS WANT TO HEAR SOBER AND SERIOUS DISCUSSION ABOUT THE VERY REAL AND TROUBLING ISSUES THAT FACE OUR NATION AND THOSE ARE INFLATION.

THAT IS IMMIGRATION.

WHAT WE HAVE RIGHT NOW AS A POLICY IS BORDER PATROL AGENTS TRYING TO LOOK SOMEONE IN THE EYE AND DECIDE IF THEY HAVE A SERIOUS ASYLUM CLAIM.

THAT IS NOT A POLICY.

WE HAVE A WAR IN EUROPE THAT NONE OF US PREDICTED, SO GLOBAL SECURITY IS A TREMENDOUS ISSUE.

SO, WE HAVE VERY REAL SERIOUS SOBERING ISSUES THAT WE NEED TO HAVE AN ADULT CONVERSATION ABOUT AND WHAT WE SAW NATIONWIDE, INDEPENDENTS WENT FOR DEMOCRATS BY 20 POINTS.

SO THAT IS A WAKE-UP CALL TO REPUBLICANS EVERYWHERE AND I THINK CERTAINLY WITH THE MIDTERMS, NEW MEXICO REPUBLICANS HAVE GOT TO REACH INDEPENDENTS AND WE ARE NOT.

SO, IT DOESN'T REALLY MATTER WHO IS IN CHARGE OF NEW MEXICO GOP, SOMETHING DIFFERENT HAS TO BE DONE.

>> Gene: INTERESTING POINT.

I ACTUALLY APPRECIATE YOU TAKING A LITTLE TIME ON THAT.

THAT SETS THE POINT VERY WELL.

MICHAEL, ENCOMPASSING EVERYTHING THAT MERRITT JUST SAID ABOUT THE NATIONAL TENOR OF THE TIMES, SO TO SPEAK, THE FEVER BREAKING A LITTLE BIT, THE IDEA THAT HERE IN NEW MEXICO REPUBLICANS WOULD LOSE SO BADLY IN SO MANY AREAS, I MEAN, ISN'T IT APPROPRIATE TO CALL FOR A LEADERSHIP CHANGE?

SOMEBODY MADE A QUOTE, IF THIS WAS A PROFESSIONAL SPORTS TEAM, YOU WOULD CALL FOR A NEW COACH AT SOME POINT.

>> Michael: I GUESS MY TAKE ON THIS WOULD BE IF IT IS NOT WORKING, YOU MIGHT WANT TO CONSIDER DOING SOMETHING DIFFERENT, SOMETHING NEW.

ALL I CAN SAY IS COMPARING NEW MEXICO TO ARIZONA IS THANK GOD WE ARE NOT ARIZONA.

AND, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU LOOK AT DIFFERENT STATES AND THEIR POLITICS, IT REALLY IS A REFLECTION IF YOU LOOK FAR ENOUGH AND DEEP ENOUGH OF THE HISTORY OF THOSE STATES AND OF THE CULTURES AND HOW PEOPLE CAME TOGETHER AND HOW THIS HAS EVOLVED, IN TERMS OF -- I'LL JUST THROW THIS OUT.

IN TERMS OF DIVERSITY AND SHARED POWER AND EQUITY AND REPRESENTATION, MY TAKE IS REALLY LOOKING AT WHAT IS GOING ON WITH COMMUNITIES OF COLOR, WITH AMERICAN INDIAN POPULATION HERE IN NEW MEXICO AND I KNOW THERE WAS A DUST UP ABOUT THE REDISTRICTING, WHICH SOUNDED REALLY INTERESTING.

BUT I'LL JUST SAY, I GUESS, TO ME, I THINK THIS NATION HAS REALLY LOST ITS DIRECTION AND WHERE IS THE SENSE OF THE COMMON GOOD?

WHERE IS THE SENSE OF THAT WE ARE ALL IN THIS TOGETHER AND THAT TO DO WELL, EVERYONE HAS TO DO WELL?

I THINK THERE IS A REAL INEQUITY IN TERMS OF POWER AND PRIVILEGE AND WE ARE STILL SORTING THROUGH THAT AND THERE IS A WHOLE HISTORY THAT HAS CREATED THE SITUATION AND CIRCUMSTANCES THAT WE ARE DEALING WITH TODAY IN TERMS OF INEQUITY AND LACK OF ACCESS TO CAPITAL, LACK OF ACCESS TO RESOURCES AND, THEREFORE, LACK OF POLITICAL REPRESENTATION ACROSS THE BOARD.

SOME PEOPLE -- AND POWER AND PRIVILEGE, WHEN PEOPLE GET POWER AND PRIVILEGE, I HAVE YET TO SEE SOMEBODY SAY, HERE, TAKE IT, I DON'T NEED IT, I DON'T WANT IT, I AM TIRED OF IT.

WHAT WE SEE BEING PLAYED OUT IS PEOPLE GETTING AHOLD OF THAT AND THEY ARE NEVER GIVING IT UP.

AND COMPROMISING THEMSELVES, I THINK, MORALLY, ETHICALLY, BECAUSE IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE ABOUT ALL OF US.

THIS NATION IS SUPPOSED TO BE ABOUT ALL OF US AND IF THERE ARE POPULATIONS AND COMMUNITIES BEING LEFT OUT, IT IS NOT WORKING.

>> Gene: INTERESTING.

AS I AM READING HERE, ONE OF THE NEWS STORIES, SHOULD REPUBLICANS BE SURPRISED IN THE AFTER, SORT OF LOOKING THROUGH THE RUBBLE, THAT ABORTION WAS AS BIG AS THEY SEEMED TO NOW REALIZE IT WAS.

WE GOT PEOPLE QUOTING HERE SAYING, WELL, WE NEEDED WOMEN TO VOTE FOR US.

THEY ARE NOT GOING TO VOTE FOR US IF WE TAKE THIS KIND OF STAND ON ABORTION.

ANY SORT OF LOOKING BACK NOW ON THAT ISSUE FOR REPUBLICANS HOW THEY APPROACHED IT?

>> Edmund: I THINK REPUBLICANS THOUGHT THEY HAD BIGGER ISSUES.

THEY THOUGHT INFLATION WAS A HUGE ISSUE AND OF GREATER CONCERN.

THEY THOUGHT CRIME WAS A HUGE ISSUE SO HUNG THEIR HATS ON THOSE TWO AREAS.

THEY WANTED TO SHY AWAY AND DOWN PLAY THE ABORTION ISSUE REALIZING THAT IS SOMETHING THEY WERE CONCERNED MIGHT GET A LOT OF TRACTION AND IT ENDED UP GETTING A LOT OF TRACTION.

IT WAS A MUCH LARGER CONCERN FOR INDEPENDENTS AND FOR OTHER VOTERS THAT REALLY SWAYED MANY OF THE VOTES AND SO, YES, I THINK ABORTION WAS UNDERESTIMATED.

MAYBE IT WASN'T UNDERESTIMATED, MAYBE WE JUST DON'T WANT TO TALK ABOUT IT BECAUSE WE REALIZE THAT IT CAN HURT IN THE LONG RUN AND I THINK IT DID HURT.

MANY VOTERS REALIZE WHEN IT COMES TO CRIME AND INFLATION THAT ALTHOUGH THERE IS A GOVERNMENT RESPONSIBILITY, SOMETIMES ESPECIALLY WITH CERTAIN RACES, ESPECIALLY THE GOVERNOR'S RACE, THERE IS REALLY NOT THAT MUCH THE GOVERNOR HAS TO DO WITH CRIME.

HE HUNG HIS HAT -- MR. RONCHETTI HUNG HIS HAT ON CRIME AND MANY VOTERS ARE ASTUTE ENOUGH TO REALIZE YOU CAN TALK CRIME BUT IN YOUR ROLE OF GOVERNOR YOU PROBABLY HAVE VERY LITTLE TO DO WITH IT, THAT CRIME IS MORE OF A LOCAL ISSUE.

SO, THEY MAY HAVE JUST HUNG THEIR HAT ON THE WRONG ISSUE AND IT CAME BACK TO BITE THEM.

>> Gene: MERRITT, I WANT TO GET YOUR -- I WANT YOU TO TAKE A CUT AT THIS ABORTION ISSUE BUT I WANT TO GET INTO REDISTRICTING AS WELL.

YOUR THOUGHTS ON ABORTION.

ANYTHING THAT REPUBLICANS COULD HAVE DONE LOOKING BACK ON IT, HONESTLY?

>> Merritt: I THINK IT IS A SHAME HOW MUCH OF A ROLE ABORTION TOOK IN THE GOVERNOR'S RACE, BECAUSE THAT IS WHERE THE GOVERNOR DOESN'T HAVE MUCH TO DO WITH ABORTION ISSUES EITHER.

IT IS A LEGISLATIVE ISSUE.

>> Gene: SHE INSERTED HERSELF INTO THE ISSUE, THOUGH.

>> Merritt: EXACTLY.

CERTAINLY BY PLEDGING A 10 MILLION-DOLLAR ABORTION CLINIC FOR TEXAS IN LAS CRUCES, BUT WHICH I THINK IS MAYBE A STEP TOO FAR.

BUT THAT ALSO DID HAMSTRING RONCHETTI BECAUSE THE ARITHMETIC IN NEW MEXICO IS HE HAD TO GET EVERY REPUBLICAN TO VOTE FOR HIM AND ENOUGH INDEPENDENTS AND POSSIBLY DEMOCRATS TO VOTE FOR HIM.

SO, IF HE CAME OUT STRONGLY AS A MODERATE ON ABORTION, HE RISKED KEEPING REPUBLICANS AT HOME AND IF HE CAME OUT TO PRO LIFE WAS GOING TO ALIENATE INDEPENDENTS AND DEMOCRATS SO THERE WAS NO PLACE FOR HIM TO GO ON THAT.

SO THAT WAS A SMART MOVE BY THE GOVERNOR, IF DISINGENUOUS.

SO, YEAH, THE ROE V WADE DECISION DID NO FAVORS FOR REPUBLICANS THIS YEAR, CERTAINLY THAT.

ON REDISTRICTING -- >> Gene: LET ME ASK YOU ABOUT CD2 SPECIFICALLY.

DID THE REDISTRICTING COMMITTEE NOT PROVE A POINT BY HAVING A RACE COME IN WITH JUST OVER 1000 VOTES TO WIN?

SHOULD THEY BE ABLE TO SAY, HEY, WE DID OUR JOBS HERE, IT IS UP TO THE CANDIDATES TO MAKE IT WORK.

>> Merritt: ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT THE LEGISLATURE OR THE REDISTRICTING COMMITTEE?

>> Gene: REDISTRICTING, YEAH.

>> Merritt: WELL, YOU KNOW, THE REDISTRICTING COMMITTEE DID EVERYTHING THEY COULD BUT THE LEGISLATURE, THE WAY THEY WROTE -- THE WAY THEY WROTE REDISTRICTING ACT DIDN'T MATTER WHAT THE REDISTRICTING COMMITTEE DID.

THE LEGISLATURE WAS GOING TO DO WHATEVER THEY WANTED.

SO, WAS CD2 GERRYMANDERED, YOU BET.

AND THE PROBLEM WAS IN 2011, THE REPUBLICANS STILL HAD ENOUGH SEATS AT THE TABLE TO NEGOTIATE AND PREVENT REALLY PROFOUND GERRYMANDERING LIKE WE SAW IN CD2.

AFTER 2018 WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE 30 SEATS IN THE HOUSE AND YOU DON'T HAVE ENOUGH SEATS IN THE SENATE, THERE IS NOTHING YOU CAN DO.

SO, YEAH, NEW MEXICO GOP CAN SAY IT WAS GERRYMANDERING BUT YOU DIDN'T HAVE ENOUGH SEATS LEFT IN THE LEGISLATURE TO PREVENT THE GERRYMANDERING.

>> Gene: INTERESTING, MICHELLE GARCIA HOLMES LOST BY 12 POINTS, ALEXIS MARTINEZ JOHNSON IN CD3 LOST BY 16 POINTS.

GOVERNOR'S RACE BY SIX POINTS.

THE SUIT IS COMING FOR REPUBLICANS.

IT IS GOING TO BE HEARD NEXT YEAR.

ANY PREDICTIONS ON HOW THIS MIGHT TURN OUT?

I SAY AGAIN, IT LOOKS PRETTY COMPETITIVE ON PAPER, LOSING BY JUST OVER 1000 VOTES.

>> Edmund: GERRYMANDERING HAS A BAD NAME, RIGHT?

OH, GERRYMANDERING IMPLIES THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG ABOUT THE WAY REDISTRICTING OCCURRED BUT IT JUST HAPPENED.

IT IS HAPPENING ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

THERE IS REDISTRICTING TAKING PLACE AS A NATURAL COURSE OF THE CENSUS.

AND SO I THINK THE SAME THING TOOK PLACE HERE AND SURE THERE MAY HAVE BEEN SOME MOVEMENT OF THE DISTRICTS TO MAYBE HELP ONE PARTY OVER THE OTHER, BUT THE BOTTOM LINE IS IN THE MESSAGING.

I THINK THERE ARE SUCH BIG ISSUES AND DIVERSE AND EXTREME ISSUES THAT THE REPUBLICANS IN THIS CASE HAD TO DEAL WITH.

THEY COULDN'T GET OUTSIDE OF THE ABORTION ISSUE AND CLIMATE CHANGE AND SOME OF THE OTHER MAJOR ISSUES THAT THEY WERE DEALING WITH AND RIGHTS OF THE LBGT COMMUNITY AND OTHER GROUPS OF THAT SORT.

SO, THEY WERE IN A VERY DIFFICULT SITUATION.

I THINK THE MEMBERS OF THE COMMITTEE FEEL PRETTY CONFIDENT THAT THIS WILL PASS JUDICIAL MUSTER.

THEY ARE SAYING IT WILL PASS CONSTITUTIONAL AND LEGAL MUSTER AND I AM SURE THERE WERE SOME ATTORNEYS ON THE COMMITTEE AND I AM SURE THEY WERE PLENTY AWARE OF IT AS THEY MOVE THROUGH THIS PROCESS.

I DON'T SEE ANYTHING THAT IS GLARING OUT THERE, THAT.

WOULD SAY THEY DID ANYTHING THAT WAS WRONG OTHER THAN THIS WAS PAR FOR THE COURSE, THIS WAS REDISTRICTING.

AND TO YOUR POINT, IS MANY OF THESE RACES WERE VERY CLOSE.

SOME OF THEM WERE NOT BUT THEN I THINK YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT INDIVIDUAL CANDIDATES, INDIVIDUAL RACES AND THE ISSUES AND THEN TAKE A LOOK AT THAT AND DETERMINE WHETHER THAT HAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH IT.

AND THE PENDULUM SWINGS BACK AND FORTH.

>> Gene: THAT IS POLITICS.

>> Edmund: FOUR YEARS FROM NOW WHEN THEY HAVE AN OPPOSITE STORY, A LOT OF IT IS ISSUE BASED.

I AM SURE THERE ARE CONCERNS BY THE LOSERS.

THERE IS ALWAYS CONCERNS BY THE LOSERS.

>> Gene: LET ME GIVE MICHAEL A CUT AT THIS, BUT A BIT OF A DIFFERENT QUESTION.

WE JUST HAVE ABOUT A MINUTE IF YOU WOULD BE SO KIND.

DONALD TRUMP LOST NEW MEXICO BY 11 POINTS AND NOW HE IS RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT AGAIN.

WHAT DOES THAT DO TO THE POLITICAL SCENE HERE IN NEW MEXICO IN YOUR VIEW, IF HE IS STUMPING AGAIN?

DOES THAT PUT A STOPPER ON REPUBLICANS?

WHO IS GOING TO HITCH THEIR WAGON TO MR. TRUMP HERE IN NEW MEXICO.

THE REPUBLICAN PARTY?

THERE IS A BIT OF A DIFFICULTY HERE, IT WOULD SEEM TO ME.

>> Michael: I DON'T SEE HIM HAVING ANY TRACTION HERE IN NEW MEXICO.

I THINK, YOU KNOW, THE TURKEY HAS BEEN COOKED.

IT IS OVER.

IT IS DONE.

IT IS NOT GOING ANYWHERE IN NEW MEXICO.

>> Gene: WE'LL HAVE TO SEE SOMETHING REALLY EXTRAORDINARY TO MAKE THAT DIFFERENT.

THAT'S FOR SURE.

THANKS TO OUR LINE OPINION PANELISTS RIGHT HERE.

WE'LL BE BACK HERE IN ABOUT 10 MINUTES TO TALK ABOUT 2022'S HAUL FROM RECREATIONAL CANNABIS SALES AND IT IS BIG AND WHAT WE SHOULD EXPECT THE FIRST FULL YEAR OF LEGALIZATION IN 2023.

>> LaSeck: IN 2020, WE HIT ONE OF THE LOWEST VACANCY RATES REALLY ON RECORD IN ALBUQUERQUE.

AND SO, LIKE I SAID, THAT GOES BACK TO THE WHOLE SUPPLY AND DEMAND THING.

OBVIOUSLY SUPPLY IS SHORT, DEMAND GOES UP, INCREASES PRICES.

THAT IS ONE THING THAT CHANGED THIS.

THE OTHER THING IS FLAT OUT INFLATION.

>> Gene: FOR ALMOST 10 YEARS, THE U.S. SUPREME COURT HAS BEEN MONITORING A DISAGREEMENT ON THE RIO GRANDE BETWEEN NEW MEXICO AND TEXAS.

THE CASE COMES BACK TO AN AGREEMENT BETWEEN TWO IRRIGATION DISTRICTS, ONE IN TEXAS, ONE IN NEW MEXICO, SIGNED IN 2008 TO SHARE WATER AS DROUGHT GRIPPED THE REGION AND ELEPHANT BUTTE RESERVOIR EMPTIED.

BUT THE STATE OF NEW MEXICO TOOK ISSUE WITH HOW MUCH WATER WAS GOING TO TEXAS AND SUED THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT OVER THE DEAL.

TEXAS THEN FIRED BACK AND SUED NEW MEXICO AND COLORADO.

NOW THAT 2013 SUIT IS STILL MAKING ITS WAY THROUGH THE HIGH COURT.

RECENTLY NEW MEXICO ANNOUNCED THAT NEW MEXICO, COLORADO AND TEXAS REACHED AN HISTORIC AGREEMENT OVER THE RIO GRANDE BUT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HASN'T SIGNED OFF ON THAT SETTLEMENT.

MEANWHILE FARMERS IN SOUTHERN NEW MEXICO HAVE BEEN LEFT IN LIMBO.

THIS WEEK, OUR LAND'S LAURA PASKUS TALKS WITH SAMANTHA BARNCASTLE, ATTORNEY FOR THE ELEPHANT BUTTE IRRIGATION DISTRICT.

>> Laura: SAM BARNCASTLE, THANKS FOR TALKING WITH ME ABOUT TEXAS V NEW MEXICO AND COLORADO TODAY.

>> Barncastle: SURE.

>> WITH THIS LAWSUIT, THE SUPREME COURT LAWSUIT, TEXAS ALLEGES THAT NEW MEXICO IS USING TOO MUCH WATER IN PART DUE TO GROUNDWATER PUMPING WHICH IS TIED TO THE RIVER.

IS THAT KIND OF A FAIR SUMMARY OF THE CASE?

>> Barncastle: YEAH.

IT IS.

ESSENTIALLY TEXAS' CLAIMS ARE THAT THE GROUNDWATER PUMPING TAKES AWAY FROM THE SURFACE SUPPLY AND SO THAT DEPLETES PART OF THE TEXAS SUPPLY AND THEREFORE THERE NEEDS TO BE SOME SORT OF ACCOUNTING FIX FOR IT.

>> Laura: SO, EVEN THOUGH THIS IS A STATE DISAGREEMENT, THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS INVOLVED, THE STATES OF COLORADO, NEW MEXICO AND TEXAS.

ELEPHANT BUTTE IRRIGATION DISTRICT IS IN WHAT SEEMS TO ME A VERY TOUGH SPOT.

CAN YOU EXPLAIN FOR US HOW FARMERS IN THE ELEPHANT BUTTE IRRIGATION DISTRICTS ARE PHYSICALLY IN NEW MEXICO BUT KIND OF CONSIDERED COMPACT TEXAS WHEN IT COMES TO WATER?

>> Barncastle: YEAH.

SO, HISTORICALLY, THE RIO GRANDE COMPACT WAS NEGOTIATED FOR THE PURPOSE OF GETTING A HANDLE ON UPSTREAM DIVERSIONS THAT WERE REDUCING THE FLOWS TO THE RIO GRANDE PROJECT IN SOUTHERN NEW MEXICO, WEST TEXAS AND MEXICO.

AND, BASICALLY WHAT HAPPENED WAS THE PROJECT WAS HERE AND IRRIGATION AS A SINGLE UNIT IN BOTH STATES WELL BEFORE THE COMPACT CAME IN, SO WHAT HAPPENED WHEN THEY DIVIDED UP THE WATER WAS THE MIDDLE RIO GRANDE WAS CONSIDERED COMPACT NEW MEXICO AND THEIR DELIVERY WAS AT ELEPHANT BUTTE COMPACT TEXAS.

THE SPECIAL MASTER IN TEXAS VERSUS NEW MEXICO HAS NOW RULED THAT THIS PARTICULAR AREA, GEOGRAPHIC NEW MEXICO BUT FORMERLY WHAT WE CALL COMPACT TEXAS, IS ACTUALLY STILL IN COMPACT NEW MEXICO UNTIL YOU GET TO THE STATE LINE AND THEN COMPACT TEXAS STARTS.

SO THIS IS A VERY DIFFERENT WAY OF LOOKING AT THINGS THAT HISTORICALLY NOBODY HAS VIEWED THIS AREA OF THE WORLD IN THAT WAY.

IT WAS ALWAYS SORT OF THE EB AND COMPACT TEXAS BUT GEOGRAPHIC NEW MEXICO AND NOW WE ARE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT EXACTLY IT MEANS TO STILL BE IN COMPACT NEW MEXICO EVEN THOUGH THE DELIVERY OBLIGATION IS ONLY SPECIFICALLY TO ELEPHANT BUTTE RESERVOIR.

WE HAVE TO FIGURE OUT WHAT THAT MEANS BELOW THE RESERVOIR.

>> Laura: SO WHAT HAS THIS LAWSUIT AND THE DISAGREEMENT BETWEEN THE STATES MEANT FOR YOUR IRRIGATION DISTRICT?

>> Barncastle: A LOT OF UNCERTAINTY, RIGHT.

WE DON'T KNOW ON ANY GIVEN DAY WHAT ANY GIVEN STATE OR FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS GOING TO BE SEEKING FROM US OR OTHER WATER USERS.

SO IT HAS JUST BROUGHT A LOT OF UNCERTAINTY.

>> Laura: THERE WAS AN IMPORTANT FILING THIS WEEK.

WHAT IS THE LATEST ON THAT THAT YOU CAN TALK ABOUT?

>> Barncastle: SO, THAT IS A DISQUALIFIER, BUT STUFF THAT I CAN TALK ABOUT IS SOMEWHAT LIMITED.

THE FILING ON MONDAY, NOVEMBER 14, WAS THE STATE'S NOTICE OF FILING A MOTION AND SUPPORTING DOCUMENTS IN CAMERA.

SO, IN CONFIDENCE.

SO THEY ARE SEALED DOCUMENTS THAT WERE FILED WITH THE SPECIAL MASTER REGARDING THE STATE SETTLEMENT OF THE ISSUES WE WERE JUST DISCUSSING.

THEY HAVE NOW PUT THOSE DOCUMENTS IN SETTLEMENT AND CONSENT DECREE IN FRONT OF THE JUDGE AND THEY'LL BE ASKING FOR HIS APPROVAL OF IT.

>> Laura: I FEEL LIKE A LOT OF TIMES WHEN PEOPLE TALK ABOUT THIS CASE, IT IS VERY MUCH COUCHED IN TERMS OF IF NEW MEXICO WINS OR IF TEXAS WINS.

IF NEW MEXICO WINS OR TEXAS WINS, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN FOR THE DISTRICT?

HOW DOES THE DISTRICT WIN OR LOSE?

>> Barncastle: I GUESS TO BEGIN, I WOULD SAY NOBODY WINS IN WATER WARS, RIGHT.

THE ONLY WINNERS ARE THE LAWYERS WHO CAN BILL ENDLESSLY FOR THE HOURS THAT IT TAKES TO NEGOTIATE RESOLUTIONS.

AND COURTROOMS AND TRIALS DON'T RESOLVE WESTERN WATER RULES.

THEY CHIP AWAY AT THE PIECES THAT GO INTO RESOLVING THOSE ISSUES BUT THEY DON'T RESOLVE THE ACTUAL PROBLEMS.

WHEN A COURT ENTERS AN ORDER, WE ARE STILL GOING TO HAVE A DROUGHT AND CLIMATE CHANGE.

WE ARE STILL GOING TO HAVE SHORT WATER SUPPLY AND MORE DEMAND THAN WE CAN FULFILL.

WE ARE STILL GOING TO NEED TO EAT FOOD AND WE ALSO NEED TO HAVE DRINKING WATER IN OUR CITIES.

IT WAS ONE OF THOSE SITUATIONS WHERE NOBODY WINS.

WHAT HAPPENS OUT OF THIS SITUATION, WELL, PEOPLE CERTAINLY WIN IN WHEN THERE IS A SETTLEMENT AND THERE IS NOT MORE LITIGATION.

THE PROBLEM IS, YOU'RE GOING TO WIN SOME AND YOU'RE GOING TO LOSE SOME ALL IN THE SAME FELL SWOOP, RIGHT.

SO DETERMINING WHEN AND HOW TO APPROACH THOSE ISSUES AND COLLABORATIVELY VERSUS LITIGATION MEANS DEAL WITH THEM IS THE TRICK, BUT I WOULD SAY NOBODY WINS IN THESE SITUATIONS UNTIL A COLLABORATIVE APPROACH IS FOUND.

>> Laura: IN OCTOBER, NEW MEXICO ANNOUNCED, I AM JUST GOING TO READ THIS, IT IS FROM THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE, THE STATES OF TEXAS, NEW MEXICO AND COLORADO HAVE REACHED AN HISTORIC AGREEMENT AFTER NINE YEARS OF LITIGATION THAT IF FINALIZED WILL RESOLVE THE MASSIVE LEGAL DISPUTES BETWEEN STATES OVER HOW WATER FROM THE RIO GRANDE IS DIVIDED BETWEEN SOUTHERN NEW MEXICO AND WEST TEXAS.

WAS THAT ANNOUNCEMENT A SURPRISE TO THE IRRIGATION DISTRICT?

>> Barncastle: WELL, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND, WE WERE IN ABOUT 11 MONTHS OF NEGOTIATIONS AT THIS POINT IN THIS ROUND.

SO, THERE HAVE BEEN PREVIOUS ROUNDS OF MEDIATION AND NEGOTIATIONS.

SO, THIS PAST YEAR, STARTING LAST DECEMBER AFTER TRIAL, THE INITIAL ROUND OF TRIAL ENDED, WE IMMEDIATELY WENT INTO NEGOTIATIONS AND THOSE NEGOTIATIONS INCLUDED NOT ONLY THE PARTIES BUT ALSO ALL OF THE AMICUS WHO ARE PARTICIPATING.

ALL THE AMICI WERE BROUGHT IN TO CONSULT ESSENTIALLY.

THE IRRIGATION DISTRICTS WERE BROUGHT IN AT A DIFFERENT LEVEL AND OUR TECHNICAL EXPERTS WERE ACTUALLY PART OF THE COMMITTEE THAT WAS WORKING ON SOME OF THESE TECHNICAL ISSUES THAT THE STATES ULTIMATELY, YOU KNOW, MOVED FORWARD WITH.

AND WE CAN'T GIVE DETAILS ABOUT HOW ALL OF THAT PLAYED OUT BUT WHAT BASICALLY WE ARE LOOKING AT IS A SETTLEMENT THAT THE STATES BELIEVE RESOLVES THE ISSUES AND THAT DEALS WITH EXACTLY WHAT WE WERE DISCUSSING IN THE BEGINNING OF THIS INTERVIEW, EQUITABLY APPORTIONING THE WATER BELOW THE RESERVOIR ACCORDING TO THE WAY THE STATES BELIEVE IT SHOULD BE APPORTIONED NOW THAT WE KNOW NEW MEXICO HAS AN INTEREST DOWN THERE WHERE WE PREVIOUSLY THOUGHT THEY DIDN'T AND WORKING OFF OF COURT ORDERS BUT ALSO WORKING OFF NEGOTIATIONS TOO.

SO, THEY BELIEVE THEY FOUND RESOLUTION.

WE STILL HAVE A LOT OF WORK TO DO.

EVEN IF THAT IS THE RESOLUTION THAT THE COURT ACCEPTS, THERE IS STILL GOING TO BE A TON OF WORK AFTER THIS.

IT IS NOT OVER.

>> Laura: RIGHT.

SO, YOU TOUCHED ON THIS ALREADY.

YOU MENTIONED DROUGHT AND CLIMATE CHANGE.

I THINK IT IS SAFE TO SAY THAT ELEPHANT BUTTE RESERVOIR PROBABLY WON'T CONSISTENTLY REACH THE LEVELS THAT IT DID HISTORICALLY.

AND I AM CURIOUS, YOU KNOW, YOUR THOUGHTS ON HOW TO ADAPT AND WHAT THE FUTURE COULD LOOK LIKE.

>> Barncastle: YEAH, SO, IMPORTANT IN THAT IS THAT YOU'RE LOOKING AT A GROUP OF FARMERS WHO ARE NOT CLIMATE CHANGE DENIERS, RIGHT.

THEY ARE PLANNERS.

THEY ARE PLANNING AHEAD.

THEY ARE ASSUMING THAT YOU ARE CORRECT, WE ARE NOT GOING TO SEE THE SAME CYCLES WE HAVE HISTORICALLY SEEN.

RIGHT NOW, WE ARE SEEING THE SAME CYCLES WE HAVE HISTORICALLY SEEN WITHIN THE RIO GRANDE PROJECT BASED ON THE DATA WE HAVE.

IT IS CERTAINLY LOOKING WORSE BUT WE HAVE OTHER REASONS TO PUT INTO FOR THAT.

POPULATION GROWTH, GROWTH OF DOMESTIC, MUNICIPAL, INDUSTRIAL COMMERCIAL WATERS BEYOND WHAT WAS HISTORICALLY IN PLACE IN THE LAST DROUGHT.

FARMERS STILL RELATIVELY USING THE SAME AMOUNT OF WATER.

CROPS GENERALLY TAKE SO MUCH, RIGHT.

WE HAVE ALWAYS HAD THE SAME AMOUNT OF IRRIGATION.

SO, WE ARE LOOKING AT AN INCREASE IN SUPPLY SO WE HAVE GOT TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO CREATE WATER ESSENTIALLY.

AND YOU KNOW, OF COURSE ENGINEERS, HYDROLOGISTS, GEOLOGISTS ANYONE IN SCIENCE WILL TELL YOU, YOU DON'T CREATE WATER.

WELL, I SAY WRONG.

RIGHT.

WHAT YOU CAN DO IS DO BETTER AT WHAT YOU'RE ALREADY DOING AND DO MORE OF IT.

WE AREN'T DOING WHAT WE NEED TO TO LEVERAGE THE STORM WATER BELOW THE RESERVOIRS.

WE CAPTURE EVERYTHING ABOVE THE LARGE RESERVOIRS BUT WE NEED MORE FLOOD CONTROL, STORM WATER MANAGEMENT BELOW THE RESERVOIRS.

THAT IS MAKING WATER.

WE NEED COLLABORATIVE SOLUTIONS WHERE COMMUNITIES, WHOLE COMMUNITIES, SMALL VILLAGES, COLONIAS, ENVIRONMENTAL INTERESTS, IRRIGATION DISTRICTS, LARGE CITIES, STATE GOVERNMENT, FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, ALL COME TOGETHER TO DO WHAT I AM CALLING RE-RECLAIM THE WEST.

THE DAYS OF THE LARGE STORAGE RESERVOIRS AND SNOW PACK AND RUNOFF ARE PROBABLY BEHIND US.

AT LEAST INITIALLY IT IS LOOKING THAT WAY.

SO, WHAT CAN WE DO?

WELL, WE RE-RECLAIM THE WEST LIKE WE DID THE FIRST TIME BUT WE ADAPT AND WE ADJUST TO WHAT WE ARE SEEING, WHICH IS SHORTER, INTENSE STORMS THAT DUMP A TON OF WATER IN ISOLATED AREAS, PRETTY TYPICAL AREAS.

THEY ARE ALL THE SAME ARROYOS.

THEY ARE ALL THE SAME DRAWS, RIGHT?

SO, PLACE INFRASTRUCTURE IN THOSE AREAS TO PROTECT HABITAT TO PROTECT THE RIVERS TO PROTECT COMMUNITIES AND TO ULTIMATELY INCREASE IRRIGATION SUPPLY.

SO WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO DO MORE WITH LESS AND EVERYBODY IS GOING TO HAVE TO COME TO THE TABLE TO DO IT.

>> Gene: THANK YOU, LAURA, FOR THAT CONVERSATION.

WE HAVE MORE INFORMATION ON THOSE LAWSUITS ONLINE RIGHT NOW.

JUST FIND THIS STORY ON OUR LAND YOUTUBE OR FACEBOOK PAGES.

OCTOBER MARKED A RECORD MONTH FOR RECREATIONAL CANNABIS SALES ACROSS OUR STATE.

ACCORDING TO DATA FROM THE CANNABIS CONTROL DIVISION RECENTLY SOLD MORE THAN 25 MILLION-DOLLARS WORTH.

TWO PREVIOUS MONTHS TOPPED OUT AT 24 MILLION.

ED, ARE YOU SURPRISED AT ALL THE DEMAND DOES NOT SEEM TO BE DECREASING?

IT IS ACTUALLY INCREASING.

WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT JUNE, JULY.

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT FALL.

YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN?

EVERYTHING SEEMS TO BE SELLING CRAZY HERE.

WHAT IS GOING ON?

>> Edmund: IT'S NEW.

IT'S SOMETHING NEW, AND I THINK JUST LIKE ANYTHING THAT'S NEW, I THINK THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT ARE TRYING IT OUT.

ANECDOTALLY THEY'RE HEARING STORIES ABOUT HOW IT MAY HELP WITH ANXIETY, IT MAY HELP WITH YOUR SLEEP, OR THE OILS OR THINGS OF THAT SORT, AND I THINK IT'S JUST GAINED SOME INTEREST.

I THINK YOU HAVE A LOT OF THAT, AND YOUR FIRST-TIMERS WHO ARE KIND OF CURIOUS ABOUT IT.

AND WE'LL SEE WHERE IT GOES.

I TEND TO THINK THAT WE'RE GOING TO CONTINUE TO SEE THIS GROWTH BEFORE IT LEVELS OFF.

PEOPLE WHO ARE GROWERS AND MANUFACTURERS AND RETAIL SELLERS ARE MAKING A LOT OF MONEY, AND I THINK THE JURY IS STILL OUT AS TO WHAT ARE THE UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES.

YOU KNOW, WHAT ARE THE MISUSES OF THIS, PRODUCTION OR WHETHER ADDICTION IS INVOLVED, OR OTHER THINGS OF THAT SORT.

WHAT ARE GOING TO BE THE SOCIETAL COSTS.

I MEAN, THERE'S THIS BIG EXCITEMENT OVER THE FACT THAT THERE'S SOME EMPLOYMENT AND THERE'S ADDITIONAL MONIES IN THE TAXPAYER'S COFFERS AND THAT SORT OF THING, BUT I THINK THE JURY IS STILL OUT AS TO REALLY WHAT THAT MEANS.

BUT AGAIN, I THINK -- MY UNDERSTANDING WAS THERE WAS ALSO THAT SPIKE DURING THAT PERIOD OF THE BALLOON FIESTA.

YOU HAD MANY INDIVIDUALS VISITING FROM OUT OF STATE GOING, HEY, LET'S -- YOU KNOW, IT'S LEGAL HERE, IT'S RECREATIONAL, SO LET'S TRY IT OUT.

SO I'M WONDERING WHAT THAT CONTRIBUTION TO THOSE NUMBERS MIGHT BE.

>> Gene: YOU DON'T HAVE TO ADVERTISE THESE THINGS OVERTLY FOR PEOPLE TO FIGURE IT OUT, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN?

MICHAEL, JUST A LITTLE MORE INFO FOR THE FOLKS AT HOME.

WE'RE TALKING ABOUT 507 DISPENSARIES.

I THINK THAT MIGHT BE SHOCKING TO MOST FOLKS, WE HAVE 507.

AT AN AVERAGE OF $43 A PURCHASE, 875,504 TRANSACTIONS TOOK PLACE IN A MONTH, A MONTH.

IT'S REALLY PHENOMENAL.

IS WEED JUST THAT POPULAR?

I MEAN, IT'S INCREDIBLE WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT IT.

>> Michael: I GUESS I'D SAY THERE WERE MORE THAN BALLOONS GOING UP DURING THE BALLOON FIESTA.

BUT I GUESS -- I THINK THAT MERRITT HAD REFERENCED EARLIER ABOUT ALL OF THE ISSUES THAT THE NATION AND THE WORLD, IN FACT, IS FACING.

YOU KNOW, GLOBAL WARMING, THE WAR IN UKRAINE, INFLATION IN THIS COUNTRY, ALL OF THESE HOST OF ISSUES, AND ISSUES THAT IMPACT NEW MEXICO AND ALBUQUERQUE.

SO I KIND OF WONDER IF SOME OF THESE RECREATIONAL FOLKS ARE JUST SORT OF SAYING, LIKE, MAYBE THIS IS CHEAPER AND BETTER THAN ZOLOFT OR OTHER SORT OF ANTI-DEPRESSANTS AND OTHER SORT OF MEDICATIONS.

I'M KIND OF CURIOUS ABOUT THAT.

BUT THE ONE QUESTION, HAS ANYBODY BEEN LOOKING AT HOW MUCH REVENUE THIS HAS GENERATED FOR THE STATE IN TERMS OF TAXES?

>> Gene: WE CAN DO THAT, TOO.

LET ME KICK IT OVER TO MY LADY RIGHT OVER HERE.

TO THAT VERY POINT, THE STATE HAS PULLED IN, OR IS DUE TO PULL IN, WELL OVER $10 MILLION.

$10 MILLION, BUT WHAT'S INTERESTING, THE LEGISLATURE HASN'T APPROPRIATED ANY CANNABIS TAX MONEY.

AND THERE'S BEEN SOME -- HOUSE MAJORITY LEADER XAVIER MARTINEZ SIGNALING THERE MAY NOT BE AN AGGRESSIVE PUSH TO CREATE RECURRING APPROPRIATIONS FROM THE CANNABIS TAX.

ARE THEY MAKING A MISTAKE HERE?

FOLKS ARE LOOKING FOR THE MONEY, SO TO SPEAK HERE.

>> Merritt: WELL, I THINK IT'S A CHALLENGE BECAUSE, ONE, WE'RE SIX MONTHS INTO THIS, AND TWO, THIS IS AN AGRICULTURAL COMMODITY.

AND SO I THINK WE HAVE SOME MATURITY.

AND WE'VE BEEN TRACKING OIL AND GAS REVENUES FOR DECADES, AND SO EVEN WITH A MATURE MARKET LIKE THAT, TRACKING COMMODITIES AND COMMODITIES MARKETS ARE VOLATILE, AND BEING DEPENDENT ON A COMMODITIES MARKET IS A ROLLER-COASTER RIDE.

WE SEE THAT IN OUR STATE ECONOMY AND OUR STATE TAX REVENUES.

THAT'S WHY WE HAVE A PERMANENT FUND, TO BE ABLE TO MANAGE THAT.

SO I THINK SIX MONTHS IN, WITH AN AGRICULTURAL COMMODITY THAT IS MUCH MORE VULNERABLE BECAUSE OF JUST HOW CROPS ARE VULNERABLE, AND WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THIS MARKET IS GOING TO BE LIKE BECAUSE IT'S BRAND NEW, WE'RE SIX MONTHS IN, I THINK TO TRY AND PROGRAM STATE PURCHASES AGAINST THIS WOULD BE -- IT'S A LITTLE PREMATURE FOR THAT.

>> Gene: BUT LET ME ASK YOU, PART OF THE SELL OF THIS WAS MUNICIPALITIES WERE GOING TO GET THEIR SHARE OF THIS.

>> Merritt: OH, ABSOLUTELY.

>> Gene: AREN'T THEY GOING TO BE CLAWING FOR SOMETHING THIS COMING SESSION?

>> Merritt: OH, I THINK SO.

I THINK SO, BUT I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE KIND OF MORE LIKE EXTRA CASH RAINING DOWN MORE THAN SOMETHING YOU ACTUALLY PLAN FOR AND BUDGET FOR.

I THINK WE'VE GOT TO BE A GOOD FIVE, TEN YEARS INTO THIS BEFORE THIS IS SOMETHING THAT'S ACTUALLY PROGRAMMED AND BUDGETED FOR, BECAUSE WE'VE GOT TO BE ABLE TO TRACK YEAR OVER YEAR SALES AND DEMAND.

AND GROWERS ARE GOING TO HAVE TO BE ABLE TO PLAN FOR BALLOON FIESTA, PLAN FOR -- WHO KNOWS.

MAYBE WHEN EVERYBODY GOES TO SANTA FE DURING THE LEGISLATURE, SALES ARE GOING TO SPIKE IN SANTA FE.

>> Gene: I'M LAUGHING, BUT I'M NOT.

AS LOGICAL AS -- THAT WOULD PROBABLY HAPPEN.

ED, ONE OF THE LITTLE WEIRD ANECDOTES THAT'S HAPPENING HERE IS MEDICAL SALES ARE EITHER FLAT OR DROPPING, AND I'M CURIOUS IF ANYBODY HAS A THEORY ABOUT THAT.

ARE FOLKS JUST BUYING RECREATION TO TAKE CARE OF THEIR MEDICAL NEEDS AND NOT BOTHERING?

>> Edmund: I IMAGINE THAT THAT'S WHAT'S HAPPENING, BECAUSE IT'S EASIER TO GO THE RECREATIONAL ROUTE.

I MEAN, THERE ARE SOME PROHIBITIONS.

IF YOU HAVE IT FOR MEDICINAL PURPOSES, THERE MIGHT BE SOME PROHIBITIONS TO CARRYING A FIREARM, FOR EXAMPLE.

YOU MAY NOT BE ABLE TO DO THAT.

THERE ARE CERTAIN QUESTIONS YOU HAVE TO ANSWER ON THE APPLICATION.

IT'S SO MUCH EASIER JUST TO GO THE RECREATIONAL.

ROUTE.

YOU'RE ABLE TO AVOID THAT ADDITIONAL STEP AND THOSE ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS AND THOSE ADDITIONAL PROHIBITIONS THAT MIGHT APPLY TO STRICTLY MEDICINAL USE.

>> Gene: I'VE GOT TO WONDER ON YOUR POINT IF FOLKS WHO WERE IN THE PROGRAM ARE FRUSTRATED, BECAUSE IT WAS A NEW PROGRAM, THERE WERE A LOT OF BUMPS AND GRINDS GETTING THE MEDICAL THING OFF THE GROUND.

NOW THAT THEY HAVE A CHOICE, MAYBE THEY'RE JUST SAYING, YOU KNOW WHAT, I DON'T NEED THE AGGRAVATION, I'M JUST GOING TO GO DOWN THE STREET FOE XYZ.

>> Edmund: THE PATH OF LEAST RESISTANCE, IT'S SO MUCH EASIER.

THEY NO LONGER HAVE TO JUMP THROUGH THESE HOOPS, THROUGH THESE OTHER LEGAL HOOPS BECAUSE IT'S SO MUCH EASIER.

>> Gene: IT'S A PROCESS FOR MEDICAL.

>> Edmund: THAT'S RIGHT.

SO I CAN SEE PROBABLY MORE OF THAT IN THE FUTURE.

WE'LL SEE THOSE NUMBERS CONTINUE TO DROP AS WORD CONTINUES TO GET OUT THERE THAT IT'S JUST SO MUCH EASIER FOR MANY TO DO THE RECREATIONAL NOW.

>> Gene: YOU KNOW, MICHAEL, I'M GOING TO USE THE PHRASE, THANK GOODNESS FOR TEXAS, BECAUSE OF THE NOTES I'M SEEING HERE.

IT SEEMS TO BE TEXANS IN SUNLAND PARK, A MILLION AND A HALF DOLLARS FROM RECREATIONAL.

HOBBS, A RECORD-BREAKING MONTH, $1.7 MILLION.

THIS IS A MONTH.

CLOVIS, $731,000.

JUST, PLEASE, STAY ILLEGAL IN TEXAS AND WE'LL BE DOING GREAT IN OUR BORDER CITIES.

THEY'VE GOT TO BE THRILLED DOWN THERE, THOUGH.

IT'S A LOT OF MONEY FOR THESE COMMUNITIES.

>> Michael: WELL, GOOD FOR THEM.

AND WHAT DOES THAT SAY ABOUT THE STATE OF MENTAL HEALTH FOR TEXAS?

SORRY, TEXAS.

>> Gene: YEP.

MERRITT, HAS THE GOVERNOR PROVED A POINT?

I'VE GOT A QUOTE HERE: 'WE'VE ESTABLISHED A NEW INDUSTRY THAT'S ALREADY GENERATING MILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN LOCAL AND STATE REVENUES AND WILL CONTINUE TO GENERATE MILLIONS MORE IN ECONOMIC ACTIVITY ACROSS THE STATE CREATING THOUSANDS OF JOBS,'ETC., ETC.

HAS SHE PROVED HER POINT HERE?

SHE PROMISED 11,000 JOBS.

IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN.

THEY HAD PROMISED, I THINK IT WAS $250 MILLION, I'M NOT QUITE SURE WHAT THE ACTUAL NUMBER WAS, AND IT LOOKS LIKE IT MIGHT HAPPEN.

I MEAN, SHE'S THE ONE THAT GOT THIS ACROSS THE FINISH LINE.

>> Merritt: I DON'T THINK THERE WAS EVER A QUESTION ABOUT THE ECONOMIC BENEFIT.

I THINK THERE WAS A QUESTION ABOUT HOW TO DO THIS FROM A REGULATORY PERSPECTIVE, HOW TO DO IT EQUITABLY BETWEEN THE SMALLER GROWERS AND THE LARGE ESTABLISHED GROWERS, AND HOW TO MANAGE IT FROM A BEHAVIORAL HEALTH PERSPECTIVE.

AND WE SAW THIS, YOU KNOW, GETTING PUSHED THROUGH.

IT TOOK THREE SESSIONS TO GET IT THROUGH.

I MEAN, A GENERAL, A SPECIAL, A SPECIAL.

I'M STILL NOT SURE THAT WE'RE COVERED FROM A REGULATORY PERSPECTIVE, BECAUSE YOU KNOW, INDUSTRIAL REGULATION IS NOT SOMETHING WE DO WELL IN NEW MEXICO.

AND SO I THINK THERE MAY STILL BE SOME WORK TO BE DONE FROM A REGULATORY PERSPECTIVE AND MANAGING IT AS A STATE.

>> Gene: RIGHT.

ED, I MENTIONED THE 507 DISPENSARIES.

NOT ALL OF THEM ARE GOING TO MAKE IT THROUGH.

THAT'S BUSINESS.

AT SOME POINT, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE CONSOLIDATION.

THAT'S BUSINESS, AS WELL.

IS THERE A FEAR THAT WE CAN END UP BEING LIKE TOBACCO, LIKE A BIG SIX OR SEVEN, AND ALL THE OTHER LITTLE GUYS BOUGHT OUT?

BECAUSE THEY'RE GOING TO CASH OUT TO SOME BIG MONEY.

IT'S GOING TO BE ALMOST IRRESISTIBLE FOR A SMALL PLAYER TO WANT TO CASH OUT.

IS THAT A CONCERN?

>> Edmund: YEAH, I THINK IT'S A VERY PROBABLE REALITY.

WE JUST HAVE TO LOOK AT THE TOBACCO MARKET OVER THE DECADES GOING BACK, AND I FORESEE THE SAME THING HAPPENING HERE.

YOU'RE RIGHT, IT'S GOING TO BE SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST, WHO CAN MAKE IT.

AND AGAIN, THE BIG DOGS IN TOWN ARE GOING TO WATCH TO SEE WHO THE STRONGEST RETAIL DISTRIBUTERS ARE, AND THEY HAVE THE WEALTH AND THE MEANS TO BUY THEM OUT.

AND AGAIN, AS YOU MENTIONED, GENE, IT'S JUST BUSINESS.

AND SO THAT'S FAIRLY FORESEEABLE.

HOW LONG THAT TAKES, IT MAY TAKE A YEAR OR TWO, THREE YEARS, FOR THINGS TO SHAKE OUT.

>> Gene: JUST A COUPLE OF SECONDS ON THIS, MICHAEL.

HAS THERE BEEN ENOUGH REPRESENTATION IN OWNERSHIP FOR THIS NEW LARGESS?

WE DON'T HAVE NUMBERS ON WHO OWNS THESE 507.

ARE THEY SOME NATIVE OWNED, SOME AFRICAN-AMERICAN OWNED, SOME WOMEN OWNED?

WE NEED A BREAKDOWN ON THAT KIND OF THING, DON'T WE?

>> Michael: WELL, I THINK WE NEED TO BE BREAKING DOWN A LOT OF THINGS IN A LOT OF AREAS IN NEW MEXICO IN TERMS OF REPRESENTATION, AND I THINK THAT'S AN INTERESTING QUESTION.

>> Gene: WE'LL HAVE TO SEE IN THAT SHAKE-OUT WHO SURVIVES AND WHO ACTUALLY CASHES OUT, SO TO SPEAK.

INTERESTING SUBJECT.

THANK YOU ALL FOR THAT DISCUSSION.

WE'LL BE BACK HERE AT THE TABLE FOR ONE FINAL CONVERSATION ON GROWING WINTER HEALTH CONCERNS.

THAT'S IN LESS THAN TEN MINUTES.

BUT BEFORE WE GET THERE, A PERSPECTIVE ON A NEW PUSH IN ALBUQUERQUE'S RENTAL MARKET.

OVER THE LAST MONTH, I'VE SPOKEN WITH PEOPLE ALL AROUND THE ISSUE OF RENT CONTROL AND RENT STABILIZATION, AS IT'S KNOWN AS.

IN OCTOBER, I TALKED TO COUNCILOR TAMMY FIEBELKORN ABOUT A MEMORIAL SHE INTRODUCED THAT WOULD HAVE URGED THE STATE TO RECONSIDER ITS BAN ON RENT CONTROL.

ULTIMATELY, IT DID NOT PASS, BUT NOW THERE'S A NEW ACTION ON THE STATE LEVEL.

AT AN EVENT THIS SATURDAY, STATE SENATOR LINDA LOPEZ WILL ANNOUNCE A NEW BILL TO REPEAL THE STATE'S BAN ON RENT CONTROL IN THE 2023 SESSION.

NOW, WITH THE RENTS SPIKING OVER THE LAST YEAR, MANY SEE IT AS A TOOL TO KEEP HOUSING AFFORDABLE, SPECIFICALLY IN ALBUQUERQUE.

BUT APARTMENT AND RENTAL OWNERS SAY THE SITUATION ISN'T THAT SIMPLE.

SHORTLY AFTER COUNSELOR FIEBELKORN'S MEMORIAL WAS VOTED DOWN, I SPOKE WITH EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE APARTMENT ASSOCIATION OF NEW MEXICO TO UNDERSTAND THEIR POINT OF VIEW ON THIS ISSUE.

>> Gene: SO LET'S TALK ABOUT JUST RENT CONTROL IN GENERAL.

FROM YOUR POINT OF VIEW AS THE E.D.

FOR THE APARTMENT ASSOCIATION HERE IN NEW MEXICO, WHY WAS A RENT CONTROL SCHEME A NONSTARTER FOR YOU FOLKS?

>> LaSeck: I THINK THAT THE REALITY IS THAT WHEN WE LOOK AT RENT CONTROL POLICIES, WE HAVE GOOD AND BAD.

WE HAVE LOTS OF OTHER PLACES TO LOOK.

AND THE REALITY IS THAT, YOU KNOW, IT MAY SOUND GOOD, ESPECIALLY WHEN THERE'S TIMES OF HIGH RENT INCREASES AND STUFF LIKE THAT.

OF COURSE, THIS LAST YEAR HAS BEEN HIGH EVERYTHING FOR THAT MATTER.

BUT THE REALITY IS AND THE ECONOMICS OF IT IS REALLY WHERE THE PRESSURE IS.

AND WHERE IT KIND OF PLAYS OUT AND WHAT WE'VE SEEN ACROSS THE COUNTRY IS, NUMBER ONE, IT STOPS DEVELOPMENT.

OBVIOUSLY THE CITY HAS THIS BIG PUSH AS FAR AS BUILDING MORE HOUSING, WE WANT MORE HOUSING, WE WANT MORE DEVELOPERS TO DO BUSINESS HERE.

87% OF DEVELOPERS SAY THEY WILL NOT DEVELOP IN A PLACE THAT HAS RENT CONTROL.

>> Gene: WOW.

>> LaSeck: ANOTHER THING IS THAT IT STOPS THE REMODELING AND REDEVELOPMENT OF PROPERTIES.

AND THAT GOES KIND OF TO YOUR POINT, THERE'S SOME AGING PRODUCT AROUND TOWN.

THERE'S A LOT OF APARTMENT COMMUNITIES THAT ARE IN NEED OF REMODELS AND STUFF LIKE THAT.

WHEN YOU PUT A CAP ON RENTS, THAT BASICALLY LIMITS AN OWNER'S ABILITY TO RECOUP INVESTMENT AND IT REALLY STOPS THAT REMODELING AND REDEVELOPMENT.

AND ABOUT 50% OF OUR MULTI-FAMILY HERE IN ALBUQUERQUE WAS BUILT BEFORE 1980.

ANOTHER KIND OF UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCE IS IT ACTUALLY LOWERS RENTAL INVENTORY, AND WE'VE SEEN THIS HAPPEN ALL ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

AND I KNOW IT KIND OF SOUNDS LIKE A WEIRD CONCEPT, BUT, A, ON THE SINGLE FAMILY HOME SIDE, YOU HAVE A GREAT RESEARCH MARKET LIKE THIS LAST YEAR WHERE HOME PRICES WERE STILL UP 20% YEAR OVER YEAR ON HOME PRICES, HOMEOWNERS START LOOKING, HEY, RATHER THAN CAP MY INCOMES, I CAN JUST SELL MY PROPERTIES FOR THESE INCREASED VALUES.

ANOTHER THING WE'VE SEEN ACROSS THE COUNTRY IS THEY TAKE APARTMENT COMMUNITIES AND TURN THEM INTO CONDOMINIUMS, AND THEY ARE SOLD OFF AS SINGLE FAMILY PRODUCT, BASICALLY.

AND SO YOU ACTUALLY LOSE HOUSING INVENTORY, OR RENTAL INVENTORY, I SHOULD SAY, THROUGH RENT CONTROL.

AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, IT STOPS INVESTMENT IN NEW MEXICO.

WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE THE NEW DEVELOPERS COMING HERE, YOU DON'T HAVE PEOPLE WHO WANT TO BUILD HOUSING, YOU KNOW, IT REALLY LIMITS OUR INVESTMENT.

AND BEING A CITY THAT WE WANT TO GROW -- YOU KNOW, WE'VE HAD SOME GREAT OPPORTUNITIES LATELY.

WE'VE HAD BIG NAMES LIKE NETFLIX OR FACEBOOK OR INTEL DOING A BUNCH OF NEW JOBS, AND WE WANT TO CREATE THIS ENVIRONMENT WHERE WE'VE GOT HOUSING AND WE'VE GOT PEOPLE, AND WITHOUT THE ABILITY TO BUILD MORE HOUSING, IT REALLY LIMITS THAT.

>> Gene: THERE'S A LOT OF RENTERS HERE, AS IF I'VE GOT TO TELL YOU.

IF IT EVER CAME TO A REFERENDUM VOTE HERE, WHAT DO YOU THINK WOULD HAPPEN IN A SITUATION LIKE THAT?

>> LaSeck: I THINK THAT THE HARDEST PART WHEN YOU PUT SOMETHING LIKE THAT TO THE VOTERS IS THE EDUCATIONAL PROCESS.

WE'VE SEEN IT IN PAST THINGS.

I'LL GO BACK TO -- I THINK THERE WAS A SCHOOL BOARD VOTE THAT WENT OUT TO RENTERS THAT HAD TO DO WITH A VERY SLIGHT PROPERTY TAX INCREASE, AND EVERYBODY VOTED AGAINST IT BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T WANT THEIR PROPERTY TAXES TO GO UP.

BUT THE REALITY WAS, THAT MONEY WAS BEING SPENT ON YOUR AIR CONDITIONERS AND THE UPKEEP OF THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS, AND THERE WASN'T THAT EDUCATION PROCESS.

SO I THINK THAT IF MORE PEOPLE UNDERSTOOD THE ECONOMICS AND HOW THIS IMPACTED THE INDUSTRY, I THINK MORE PEOPLE WOULD VOTE AGAINST IT.

I THINK THAT IT'S -- I HATE TO CALL IT A FEEL GOOD POLICY, BUT IT IS.

WHEN YOU SAY, HEY, LOOK, MY RENTS ARE GOING TO BE CAPPED AT THREE PERCENT FOR THE NEXT HOWEVER -- FOR IN PERPETUITY, IT SOUNDS GOOD.

IT DOES.

BUT IT'S THAT EDUCATIONAL PROCESS TO SAY, HEY, LOOK, YOUR APARTMENT MAY NOT GET THE UPGRADES THAT IT NEEDS.

YOUR RENT, WHILE IT MAY BE CAPPED AT THREE PERCENT, OR FIVE, OR SEVEN, OR TEN, OR WHATEVER THEY DECIDE, YOU'RE GOING TO SEE THAT INCREASE EVERY SINGLE YEAR, WHERE IN REALITY WHEN WE LOOK AT NEW MEXICO -- AND WE PULLED THE LAST, YOU KNOW, LIKE 21 YEARS, ACTUALLY.

ALBUQUERQUE IN THE LAST 21 YEARS HAS ONLY SEEN AN ANNUAL RENT GROWTH OF ABOUT TWO AND A HALF PERCENT.

AND THAT INCLUDES THE LAST TWO YEARS, OR I GUESS WE'RE BASICALLY GOING ON THREE NOW.

BUT IT INCLUDES THIS LAST BIG BUMP.

SO WE'VE BASICALLY JUST SEEN THIS LITTLE BLIP OVER THE LAST TWO DECADES IN ALBUQUERQUE, AND SO I THINK A LOT OF TIMES WE TRY TO CREATE POLICY AROUND SOMETHING THAT'S AN IMMEDIATE NEED AND IT'S AN IMMEDIATE ACTION, BUT THE REALITY IS, TOO, RENT CONTROL DOESN'T MAKE YOUR RENT CHEAPER.

UNFORTUNATELY, IF IT'S NOT AFFORDABLE YESTERDAY, IT'S NOT GOING TO BE AFFORDABLE TOMORROW.

AND THAT'S ANOTHER THING THAT I THINK PEOPLE DON'T REALIZE, IS THAT IT DOESN'T NECESSARILY MAKE ANYTHING CHEAPER.

I MEAN, THE RENT INCREASES HAVE ALREADY HAPPENED.

>> Gene: I'M INTERESTED IN YOUR THOUGHTS ON WHAT -- AND YOU JUST MENTIONED IT A SECOND AGO -- WHAT IS BEHIND THE SPIKE IN RENT INCREASES HERE, FROM YOUR POINT OF VIEW, FROM THE APARTMENT ASSOCIATION OF NEW MEXICO?

>> LaSeck: I THINK OBVIOUSLY THE BIGGEST THING IS WE'RE LOOKING AT A SUPPLY AND DEMAND ISSUE.

YOU GO BACK ALL THE WAY TO ABOUT 2008, REALLY, WHEN THE MARKETS CRASHED AND EVERYBODY QUIT DEVELOPING.

IT HAPPENED ALL OVER THE COUNTRY.

SINCE THEN, WHEN WE'VE LOOKED AT IT REALLY IN THE LAST DECADE, WE HAVEN'T PRODUCED MORE THAN 400 RENTAL UNITS A YEAR EVER.

I MEAN, THERE'S A COUPLE YEARS -- IN FACT, THERE WAS EVEN A YEAR THAT WE LOST APARTMENT COMMUNITIES, BECAUSE A BUILDING WAS KNOCKED DOWN.

SO IT'S KIND OF HARD TO PROJECT SUPPLY AND DEMAND ISSUES.

ALBUQUERQUE, IN GENERAL, HAS NOT SEEN BIG POPULATION GROWTHS, BUT YOU THROW IN THINGS LIKE THE REAL ESTATE MARKET FOR THIS LAST YEAR.

LIKE I SAID, EVEN TODAY WE'RE STILL UP 20%.

THOSE FOLKS THAT I MENTIONED, MAYBE THEY WERE RENTING A PLACE AND THE OWNERS DECIDED TO SELL IT, NOW THEY'RE LOOKING FOR AN APARTMENT.

SO WE SAW THIS CRAZY SUPPLY AND DEMAND, AND WE ACTUALLY -- IN 2020, WE HIT ONE OF THE LOWEST VACANCY RATES REALLY ON RECORD IN ALBUQUERQUE.

AND SO LIKE I SAY, IT GOES BACK TO THAT WHOLE SUPPLY AND DEMAND THING.

OBVIOUSLY SUPPLY IS SHORT, DEMAND GOES UP, INCREASES PRICES.

THAT'S ONE THING THAT CHANGED IT.

THE OTHER THING IS FLAT OUT INFLATION.

WHEN YOU LOOK AT YOUR AIR CONDITIONERS THAT USED TO COST $400 AND NOW COST $700, YOUR LABOR COSTS THAT MAY USED TO BE A FIXED COST, YOUR EMPLOYEE COSTS.

EVEN AT THESE BIGGER APARTMENT COMMUNITIES, IT'S BECOME HARDER TO HIRE PEOPLE, SO IT'S INCREASED COSTS.

>> Gene: ONE OF THE INTERESTING THINGS THAT I FIND ABOUT APARTMENT LIFE -- AND I GREW UP BACK EAST WHERE THERE'S LOTS OF APARTMENTS, IT'S A VERTICAL CITY.

WE'RE A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT HERE.

BUT THERE IS AN INTERESTING DENSITY OPPORTUNIST HERE, IT SEEMS TO ME.

I TALKED ABOUT THIS WITH COUNSELOR FIEBELKORN BACK IN THE MIDDLE OF OCTOBER BEFORE SHE MADE HER MEMORIAL.

I'M CURIOUS FROM YOUR POINT OF VIEW, IS THAT SAME SORT OF OPPORTUNITY OUT THERE AS FAR AS YOUR POINT OF VIEW, MEANING YOU GUYS CAN REALLY STIR THE POT HERE A LITTLE BIT, WHEN YOU REALLY THINK ABOUT IT.

IF YOU PLACE CERTAIN BUILDINGS IN CERTAIN PLACES THAT HAVE A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF STORIES AND A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF PEOPLE, YOU COULD REALLY TURN THE DIAL ON A NEIGHBORHOOD FOR RETAIL, FOR RESTAURANTS, FOR WALKABILITY, TRANSPORTATION.

YOU GUYS ARE KIND OF A CRITICAL LINK IN THIS WHOLE BUILDING OF A CITY THING HERE.

IS THIS SOMETHING YOU GUYS TALK ABOUT ACTIVELY, THE ASSOCIATION?

>> LaSeck: YES, ABSOLUTELY.

AND I THINK THAT THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS THAT -- YOU KNOW, WE'VE WORKED WITH THE CITY BEFORE, AND I KNOW THE DEVELOPERS DO.

IT ALL REALLY COMES DOWN TO PLANNING.

THE REALITY IS, TOO, IT'S NOT LIKE ALBUQUERQUE IS FULL OF EMPTY LOTS LAYING AROUND WHERE WE CAN JUST BUILD APARTMENTS EVERYWHERE.

WE'RE LAND LOCKED.

ESSENTIALLY, UNLESS YOU GO TOWARDS THE WEST SIDE, THERE'S NOT A WHOLE LOT OF OPPORTUNITY.

OF COURSE, A LOT OF PEOPLE WANT TO LIVE IN THE NORTHEAST HEIGHTS.

SO IT'S DEFINITELY SOMETHING THAT WE TALK ABOUT AND LOOK AT, AND WE'VE GOT SOME DEVELOPERS THAT HAVE BEEN UTILIZING SOME GREAT SPACES.

AND LIKE I SAY, IF YOU LOOK AROUND TOWN, THERE'S A LOT OF CONSTRUCTION CRANES UP RIGHT NOW, SO THE MOMENTUM IS HERE.

>> Gene: YOU CAN WATCH MY ENTIRE INTERVIEW WITH MR. LaSECK ON OUR NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS FACEBOOK PAGE.

YOU CAN ALSO FIND MY CONVERSATION WITH COUNCILOR TAMMY FIEBELKORN WHEN SHE FIRST INTRODUCED THAT MEMORIAL TO THE COUNCIL LAST MONTH.

NOW, WELCOME BACK TO OUR LINE OPINION PANELISTS.

WE HAVE ONE FINAL DISCUSSION TONIGHT ON PUBLIC HEALTH AND NEW THREATS AS WE INCH CLOSER TO WINTER.

NOW, ACCORDING TO REPORTING IN THE ALBUQUERQUE JOURNAL, MANY HOSPITALS LOCALLY ARE OPERATING ABOVE CAPACITY BECAUSE OF AN INFLUX OF YOUNG PATIENTS, MANY SICK WITH RSV.

NOW, HOSPITALS HAVE HELD PRESS CONFERENCES THIS WEEK, ON MONDAY SPECIFICALLY, AND AS WE TAPED THIS ON THURSDAY, WE'RE WAITING ON A BRIEFING FROM THE STATE HEALTH DEPARTMENT LATER THIS AFTERNOON, MICHAEL.

I KNOW THERE'S A LOT OF FATIGUE OUT THERE IN THE LAST TWO PLUS YEARS ABOUT COVID AND MASKING AND ALL THIS KIND OF THING.

THESE TRENDS ARE NO JOKE, ESPECIALLY RSV.

120% CAPACITY.

NEW WINGS AT PRES FOR KIDS.

WHAT DO WE DO HERE?

DOES HAVING KIDS IN THE MIX CHANGE THE CONVERSATION ABOUT MASKING IN YOUR VIEW?

>> Michael: I WISH IT WOULD, BUT I DON'T THINK IT'S GOING TO.

I MEAN, I THINK IT'S GOOD THAT THERE'S THIS RESPONSE, CLEARLY, GIVEN WHAT WE'RE PRESENTED WITH, OUR HEALTH CARE SYSTEM AND OUR CITIZENS.

SO I THINK THERE'S A GOOD RESPONSE, AND I THINK IN PART IT'S BECAUSE OF WHAT WE'VE BEEN THROUGH SINCE 2019 WITH COVID.

HOPEFULLY WE'VE LEARNED SOME LESSONS.

HOPEFULLY WE HAVE A BETTER SENSE OF HOW TO RESPOND TO THIS.

>> Gene: IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE SEEING OUT THERE, THOUGH?

ARE WE BETTER AT THIS THAN WE WERE BEFORE?

>> Michael: I THINK THERE'S A CERTAIN SEGMENT OF OUR COMMUNITY WHO UNDERSTANDS THIS AND IS RESPONDING, GIVEN THE PUBLIC HEALTH PROTOCOLS AND PRECAUTIONS, BUT AGAIN, THERE'S STILL PEOPLE OUT THERE IN THE COMMUNITY WHO DENY THAT THERE'S AN ISSUE AND ARE NOT FOLLOWING PROTOCOLS.

BUT I JUST THINK -- AND MY CONCERN, OBVIOUSLY, IS OUR WHOLE SYSTEM.

DO WE HAVE ADEQUATE SYSTEMS IN PLACE AND CAPACITY?

AND THIS IS POINTING OUT THAT THERE'S STILL ISSUES OF CAPACITY.

BUT WHEN YOU LOOK AT RURAL, RESERVATION AND FRONTIER COMMUNITIES, THAT'S EVEN MORE -- I MEAN, YOU THINK WE HAVE PROBLEMS HERE IN ALBUQUERQUE?

THOSE COMMUNITIES, YOU KNOW, IN TERMS OF RESOURCES, I THINK ARE DOUBLY CHALLENGED.

SO I'M OPTIMISTIC THAT WE'RE RESPONDING AS WELL AS WE CAN.

YOU KNOW, WE'LL SEE WHAT WE SEE AND HOW WE GET THROUGH THIS.

BUT COVID AND THE ISSUES THAT -- I MEAN, THIS POINTS OUT A WHOLE HOST OF ISSUES IN TERMS OF -- I WOULD SAY WE REALLY DON'T HAVE A HEALTH SYSTEM IN THIS COUNTRY, AND COVID DEMONSTRATED THAT WE DON'T.

WE'VE NOT SUPPORTED AND ADEQUATELY FUNDED PUBLIC HEALTH IN TERMS OF FEDERAL, STATE AND LOCAL COUNTY GOVERNMENTS IN THOSE AGENCIES.

AND IN THE DISCUSSION THAT I REFERENCED IN TERMS OF BOSTON, THERE'S A WHOLE LOT OF -- THE PUBLIC HEALTH ASSOCIATION WAS REALLY ADDRESSING A WHOLE HOST OF ISSUES ACROSS THE COUNTRY IN TERMS OF PUBLIC HEALTH OFFICIALS BEING THREATENED, PUBLIC HEALTH OFFICIALS RESPONDING IN AN APPROPRIATE WAY AND COMING UNDER POLITICAL PRESSURE AND HAVING TO RESIGN OR BEING DISMISSED.

NEW MEXICO, THANK GOD, WE'VE NOT SEEN THAT KIND OF -- I DON'T BELIEVE WE'VE SEEN THAT KIND OF RESPONSE HERE, SO I THINK WE'RE FORTUNATE IN THAT SENSE.

>> Gene: GOOD POINT THERE.

ED, I MENTIONED UNM CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL, 119% OVER CAPACITY.

THE MEDICAL DIRECTOR AT LOVELACE THIS WEEK URGING PARENTS TO TEACH THEIR CHILDREN TO WASH THEIR HANDS, CONSIDER WEARING A MASK IN PUBLIC PLACES, AND STAY UP TO DATE ON VACCINES, ETC., ETC.

NOW, WE DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN IN THE PRESS CONFERENCE A LITTLE BIT LATER TODAY, AND I APOLOGIZE TO GUESS AHEAD FOR THE FOLKS AT HOME, BUT WE'RE NOT GOING TO HAVE A MASK MANDATE.

THAT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

WE'RE CLEARLY PAST THAT.

WHAT CAN THE STATE SAY TO GET PEOPLE MORE IN TUNE WITH WHAT'S GOING ON HERE?

>> Edmund: THE DYNAMICS OF SOCIAL INTERACTION HAS CHANGED POST PANDEMIC.

WE CAN ALL RECALL DURING THE PANDEMIC, IN MY CASE I DIDN'T HAVE AS MUCH AS A SNIFFLE FOR A YEAR AND A HALF BECAUSE WE WERE MASKED UP AND SOCIAL DISTANCING AND TAKING ALL THOSE PRECAUTIONS.

AND WE'VE SINCE MOVED AWAY FROM THAT, AND I THINK IT WOULD BE VALUABLE FOR THE STATE TO CONTINUE TO ENCOURAGE THAT THROUGH PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENTS, WHATEVER IT MAY TAKE, TO ENCOURAGE INDIVIDUALS TO CONTINUE TO DO THOSE THINGS THAT WORKED DURING THESE MANDATES.

SO WHAT THE STATE CAN DO, AGAIN, IS UP THEIR EFFORT ON REMINDING PEOPLE OF THE IMPORTANCE OF TAKING THOSE SAFETY PROTOCOLS.

MASKING, IF YOU CHOOSE TO MASK.

IF YOU CHOOSE NOT TO, THAT'S FINE, THAT'S YOUR CHOICE.

BUT SOCIAL DISTANCING AND WASHING YOUR HANDS, THINGS OF THAT SORT THAT ARE VERY BASIC TO PUBLIC HEALTH.

WE CAN'T FORGET WHAT WE LEARNED A COUPLE YEARS AGO AGO, RIGHT.

IT STILL CAN PAY DIVIDENDS TODAY IN THE HEALTH AND SAFETY OF OUR CHILDREN, AND EVEN ADULTS.

I'M SEEING THE NUMBERS OUT THERE FOR ADULTS, SENIORS 65 YEARS AND OLDER WHO ARE -- THEIR RSV IS BEGINNING TO SPIKE.

WE LOOK AT IT AS SORT OF A YOUTH-CHILD VIRUS, BUT IT'S HAVING OTHER RAMIFICATIONS TO THE BROADER AND OLDER INDIVIDUALS IN OUR SOCIETY.

>> Gene: I'M GLAD YOU MADE THAT POINT.

IT'S INTERESTING.

IT'S EASY TO PEG THIS AS JUST A KID THING, AND IT'S REALLY NOT.

MERRITT, PEOPLE ARE BEING ADVISED TO KEEP THEIR KIDS HOME FROM SCHOOL, OR DON'T GO TO WORK YOURSELF IF YOU'RE THE ONE THAT'S SICK AS THE GROWN-UP.

THAT'S EASY TO SAY, ISN'T IT?

WE DON'T HAVE A SYSTEM SET UP TO ACCOMMODATE THAT.

>> Merritt: OH, NO.

AND I CAN TELL YOU, I HAD RSV A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO.

>> Gene: OH, NO KIDDING!

>> Merritt: I KNOW.

I MEAN, I DO LOOK INCREDIBLY YOUNG FOR MY AGE.

>> Gene: YES, YOU DO.

>> Merritt: AND I CAN SAY, ZERO STARS.

DO NOT RECOMMEND.

DO NOT GET RSV.

YOU KNOW, I JUST KIND OF WENT BACK TO SOME OLD HABITS, LIKE I DID ONLINE GROCERY STORE SHOPPING, AND KEPT MY CAR CLOSED AND POPPED MY TRUNK.

I DIDN'T GO TO CHURCH, STAYED HOME.

AND ONE THING I NOTICED IS, ONCE -- IT TOOK TWO URGENT CARE VISITS AND AN ONLINE VISIT TO REALLY GET IT RESOLVED.

ONCE MY DOCTOR SAID I WAS NO LONGER INFECTIOUS, I STARTED GOING BACK OUT AGAIN.

AND SO ONE THING I'VE NOTICED IS EVERYONE SHOPPING FOR THANKSGIVING, I SEE ABOUT ONE OUT OF THREE PEOPLE IN MASKS.

AND SO I THINK PEOPLE ARE GOING BACK TO THEIR OLD HABITS AND THEY ARE PAYING ATTENTION, THOSE WHO WANT TO.

CAN WE GET 100% COMPLIANCE?

NO, WE'RE NOT GOING TO.

ARE WE GOING TO GO BACK TO A MASK MANDATE?

NO, WE'RE NOT GOING TO.

BUT, YOU KNOW, RSV, BECAUSE IT'S JUST POPPED UP, IT DOESN'T HAVE THE DRAMA AROUND IT.

IT'S NOT POLITICIZED.

I THINK IT'S INTERESTING HOW MUCH MORE SERIOUSLY PEOPLE ARE TAKING IT BECAUSE THERE ISN'T THIS STIGMA OR THE POLITICS ATTACHED TO IT.

>> Gene: RIGHT, GOOD POINT THERE, TOO, THAT LAST POINT.

MICHAEL, A DOCTOR FROM PRES TOLD THE JOURNAL, AS PART OF THAT STORY, IT'S INTERESTING, THIS IMMUNITY GAP.

I FIND IT FASCINATING.

AS A PUBLIC HEALTH PERSON, EXPLAIN WHAT THAT IS.

IT'S SO INTERESTING TO ME, AND WHY IT'S SO IMPACTFUL ON RSV RIGHT NOW.

>> Michael: WELL, THERE WAS AN UPSIDE TO COVID AND THERE WAS A DOWNSIDE TO COVID.

THE DOWNSIDE TO COVID IS THAT PEOPLE WERE MASKING UP AND TAKING PRECAUTIONS, BUT THEN AGAIN, THEY WERE NOT CHILDREN, AND THE GENERAL POPULATION WERE NOT BEING EXPOSED TO A VARIETY OF THINGS THAT THEY ORDINARILY WOULD THAT WOULD HAVE AMELIORATED SOME OF WHAT WE'RE SEEING NOW WITH RSV.

ONE QUICK THING I'D LIKE TO SAY, THOUGH, RELATIVE TO -- AN INTERESTING THING THAT HAS COME OUT OF THE NATIVE COMMUNITY, AND PEOPLE MAY NOT BE AWARE OF THIS, I DON'T THINK MOST PEOPLE ARE, BUT PRE-COVID, AMERICAN INDIANS HAD THE HIGHEST MORTALITY-MORBIDITY RATES OF ANY POPULATION IN THIS COUNTRY.

ANY POPULATION.

AND ALSO HAD THE HIGHEST INFECTION RATES.

THE INTERESTING SHIFT IN THIS, THOUGH, THE FLIP SIDE OF THIS IS NATIVE POPULATIONS HAD THE HIGHEST IMMUNIZATION RATES OF ANY POPULATION.

AND THAT GOES BACK TO SOMETHING I THINK WHICH IS A TRIBAL HISTORICAL RESPONSE TO THIS ISSUE, AND THAT IS THE IMPORTANCE OF THE TRIBE, THE IMPORTANCE OF THE COMMUNITY, THE IMPORTANCE OF THE GROUP OUTWEIGHS THE INDIVIDUAL.

IN THE COUNTRY WE LIVE IN TODAY, THERE'S SO MUCH DISCUSSION ABOUT MY RIGHTS.

YOU CAN'T INFRINGE UPON MY RIGHTS.

I'M GOING TO DO WHATEVER I WANT TO DO, I CAN DO THIS, I CAN BUY THAT, AND YOU CAN'T TELL ME WHAT TO DO, BECAUSE YOU'RE INFRINGING UPON MY RIGHTS.

BUT CONTRARY TO THAT, AND I THINK A MORE POSITIVE RESPONSE, IS WE HAVE A DUTY AND AN OBLIGATION TO PROTECT EACH OTHER.

WE HAVE A DUTY AND AN OBLIGATION TO PROTECT THE TRIBE.

WE HAVE A DUTY AND AN OBLIGATION TO PROTECT THE CHILDREN.

WE HAVE A DUTY AND AN OBLIGATION TO TAKE CARE OF OUR SENIORS, OUR ELDERS, BECAUSE THEY'RE IMPORTANT TO THE COMMUNITY.

AND SOMEHOW I THINK THERE'S BEEN A TIP IN THIS COUNTRY WHERE WE'RE OUT OF BALANCE.

WE'RE FAILING TO RECOGNIZE, AGAIN GOING BACK TO THE COMMON GOOD, THAT WE ALL HAVE A DUTY AND A RESPONSIBILITY NOT JUST FOR ME, BUT FOR MY NEIGHBOR AND FOR MY FAMILY AND FOR THE COMMUNITY AT LARGE.

AND UNTIL WE REALLY TAKE THAT TO HEART, THAT IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT THE INDIVIDUAL -- I MEAN, THE INDIVIDUAL, I RECOGNIZE RIGHTS, BUT IT HAS TO BE WITHIN THE CONFINES OF A COMMUNITY SYSTEM, AND WE ALL HAVE DUTY AND OBLIGATION AND RESPONSIBILITY TO EACH OTHER.

IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT YOU.

>> Gene: THAT'S RIGHT.

GOOD FINAL WORD ON THAT TOPIC.

APPRECIATE THAT.

THANKS AGAIN TO THE LINE PANEL AS ALWAYS THIS WEEK.

SO GOOD TO HAVE YOU GUYS HERE IN STUDIO.

LET US KNOW WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT ANY OF THE TOPICS THE LINE COVERED ON OUR FACEBOOK, TWITTER, OR INSTAGRAM PAGES.

AND CATCH ANY EPISODES YOU MAY HAVE MISSED ON OUR PBS VIDEO APP OR YOUR ROKU OR SMART TV.

>> Gene: AS WE GET INTO THE TEETH OF THE WINTER SEASON AND ALL THAT IMPLIES FOR OUR HEALTH, I FIND MYSELF AGAIN CURIOUS HOW THE USE OF MASKS PLAYS OUT THIS SEASON.

NOW, AT THIS POINT WEARING ONE IN PUBLIC REALLY WON'T EARN YOU A HARD TIME THESE DAYS, LIKE IT DID BEFORE, SO THAT REALLY ISN'T A COMPELLING REASON NOT TO WEAR A MASK OR BE CAUTIOUS WITH YOUR INDOOR SURROUNDINGS, VENTILATION AND ALL THE REST WE LEARNED TO DO IN 2020.

RSV OR NOT, SOME OF US WILL AND SOME OF US WON'T.

IT'S DOWN TO BEING A PERSONAL CHOICE, AS ED MENTIONED EARLIER, AND HOW WE CHOSE TO PROTECT OURSELVES, OUR KIDS AND OUR FAMILIES.

AS WE DISCUSSED EARLIER, AS WELL, RSV CHANGES THE EQUATION FOR SOME BECAUSE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT CHILDREN AND VULNERABILITY AND OUR ROLE AS ADULTS IN THAT EQUATION.

NOW, THAT'S SOMETHING TO CONSIDER WHEN YOU HEAD OUT THE DOOR AND LOOK AT THAT MASK.

THANKS AGAIN FOR JOINING US AND FOR STAYING INFORMED AND ENGAGED.

WE'LL SEE YOU AGAIN NEXT WEEK In FOCUS.

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