FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS PROVIDED BY VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

>> Gene: THIS WEEK ON NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS, GOVERNOR MICHELLE LUJAN GRISHAM IN STUDIO FOR AN EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW WITH OUR LAND LAURA PASKUS ABOUT THE PRESSING ENVIRONMENTAL CONCERNS IMPACTING OUR STATE.

>> ASH CHARZUK: THERE ARE A LOT OF CRACKS TO FALL THROUGH, BUT THERE ARE NOT A LOT OF LADDERS TO COME BACK UP OUT OF THOSE CRACKS.

>> Gene: UNDERSTANDING CAUSES OF HOMELESSNESS FROM THE GROUND.

I ASK LEADERS OF AN ALBUQUERQUE NONPROFIT IF SAFE OUTDOOR SPACES ARE THE ANSWER.

NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS STARTS NOW.

THANKS FOR JOINING US THIS WEEK.

I AM YOUR HOST, GENE GRANT.

ALBUQUERQUE HANDLING OF HOMELESSNESS IN THE CITY IS NOT SITTING WELL WITH THE MAJORITY OF THE PUBLIC.

ACCORDING TO A NEW SURVEY CONDUCTED BY THE CITY, THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE UNHAPPY WITH THE CITY'S RESPONSE HAS DOUBLED IN JUST ONE YEAR.

IN ABOUT 25 MINUTES, THE LINE OPINION PANEL WILL EXPLORE THE REASONS BEHIND THAT SUDDEN SHIFT.

AT THE BOTTOM OF THE HOUR, WE'LL TAKE A DEEP DIVE INTO RED FLAG LAWS.

IT IS A STARTLING STATISTIC THAT SHOWS HOW LITTLE THEY HAVE BEEN USED IN OUR STATE, IN PARTICULAR.

I'LL ASK PANELISTS WHY THOSE LAWS AREN'T BEING ENFORCED AS INTENDED, BUT FIRST OUR EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW WITH GOVERNOR MICHELLE LUJAN GRISHAM.

OUR LAND SENIOR PRODUCER LAURA PASKUS SAT DOWN WITH THE GOVERNOR IN OUR ALBUQUERQUE STUDIOS EARLIER THIS WEEK TO TALK ABOUT A WIDE RANGE OF CRITICAL ENVIRONMENTAL ISSUES.

WE ARE GOING TO HEAR FROM THE GOVERNOR TWICE TONIGHT.

IN PART ONE OF LAURA'S INTERVIEW, THE GOVERNOR REACTS TO THIS YEAR'S HISTORIC FIRE SEASON AND THE PROPOSAL TO STORE THE COUNTRY'S SPENT NUCLEAR WASTE HERE IN NEW MEXICO.

>> Laura: THANK YOU GOVERNOR FOR BEING HERE IN THE STUDIO TODAY.

>> Lujan-Grisham: THANK YOU LAURA, I AM DELIGHTED TO BE HERE.

>> Laura: I HAVE SO MANY QUESTIONS FOR YOU BUT ENVIRONMENT ISSUES JUST DON'T GET THE ATTENTION THEY TEND TO DESERVE, SO, EVEN THOUGH I WANT TO HEAR ABOUT COVID-19 AND REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS AND SOME SOCIAL ISSUES, WE ARE STICKING TO THE ENVIRONMENT TODAY.

>> Lujan-Grisham: PERFECT.

GIVEN THE PASSAGE OF THE INFLATION REDUCTION ACT, I THINK IT IS ON THE MIND OF SO MANY AMERICANS AND CERTAINLY SO MANY NEW MEXICANS AND LEADERSHIP IN WESTERN STATES.

>> Laura: SO, THIS YEAR'S FIRES KIND OF JUMPING UP TO NORTHERN NEW MEXICO, AFTER THE HERMIT'S PEAK AND CALF CANYON FOREST SERVICE IS SUPPOSED TO BE RELEASING A REVIEW OF THEIR PRESCRIBED FIRE PROTOCOLS AND THAT MIGHT ACTUALLY COME OUT THIS WEEK BEFORE THIS AIRS.

WHAT DO YOU KNOW ABOUT THEIR PLANS OR THEIR CONVERSATIONS ABOUT PRESCRIBED FIRE?

>> Lujan-Grisham: WHAT THEY COMMITTED TO, SO WE'LL SEE IF IT IS IN THIS ACTUAL PRESENTATION TO US, ABOUT A PLAN.

WHICH IS, THIS NOTION THAT THEY DON'T ADOPT THEIR PRESCRIBED BURNS, FOREST MANAGEMENT OR FOREST HEALTH REVIEWS IN THIS NEW EXTREME DROUGHT ENVIRONMENT AND PROVIDE NO NOTICE TO STATES ABOUT TAKING FUEL, PARTICULARLY THROUGH PRESCRIBED BURNS, OUT OF THE FOREST.

IT IS PROBLEMATIC AS WE SAW, RIGHT.

IT WAS BOTH FIRES BOTH CAUSED BY NEGLIGENCE, FRANKLY, GROSS NEGLIGENCE, OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

SO, MY EXPECTATION IS, TRUE TO THEIR WORD, THAT NOTICE REQUIREMENTS ARE IN, THAT COLLABORATION REQUIREMENTS ABOUT WHAT CONSTITUTES GETTING THE FUEL OUT, AND THAT WHILE I THINK THERE IS A GROUP OF NEW MEXICANS WHO HAVE LITTLE TOLERANCE FOREVER DOING PRESCRIBED BURNS, I THINK THE NOTION, GIVEN THE VAST ACREAGE WE ARE TALKING ABOUT IN ALL OF OUR NATIONAL FORESTS ACROSS THE COUNTRY, THAT THAT MAY BE AN UNREALISTIC EFFORT, PARTICULARLY WHEN YOU LOOK AT SOME OF THE TERRAIN, AND IN THE SPRING, IN WINDY SEASONS AND, FRANKLY, IN THE HEAT OF THE SUMMER WHEN THE TEMPERATURE IS SO HIGH AND THERE IS NO HUMIDITY.

WE ARE EXPECTING IT TO BE VERY WEATHER CENTRIC, SO, WINTER AND WE ARE EXPECTING, LIKE I SAID, VERY SPECIFIC NOTICE AND THEN WE WANT TO BE PART OF THE SCIENCE.

YOU KNOW.

WHAT WOULD CONSTITUTE THE PARAMETERS AND THEN WHAT STATES GO IN WHAT ORDER AND HOW.

AND I AM EXPECTING THAT AT THE VERY LEAST.

BUT, THEY HAVE A LOT OF CLIMATE CHANGE WORK IN ORDER TO CATCH UP TO THE REALITY OF TODAY ACROSS THE GLOBE AND CERTAINLY IN THEIR WORK AS A FEDERAL ENTITY RESPONSIBLE FOR FOREST HEALTH.

>> Laura: DO YOU FEEL LIKE THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HAS BEEN RESPONSIVE AND TRANSPARENT WHEN IT COMES TO THE FIRES, THE RECOVERY?

>> Lujan-Grisham: TRANSPARENCY IS TOUGH BECAUSE IT IS WHEN FOLKS GET FRUSTRATED FOR GOVERNMENT, FOR ANY REASON, I SHARE THAT FRUSTRATION, BUT GOVERNMENT BY ITS NATURE IS SORT OF A LARGE AND CAN BE AN UNWIELDY SORT OF ORGANIZATION AND NOTHING MORE UNWIELDY THAN MAYBE THE PENTAGON IN AND OF ITSELF AND THEN THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AS A WHOLE.

SO, THEY WERE CLEAR.

THEY TOOK RESPONSIBILITY.

THE PRESIDENT SAID UNEQUIVOCALLY TO AMERICA AND TO NEW MEXICANS, OUR FAULT, WE WILL DO EVERYTHING TO FIX IT AND EXPECT MORE FROM US.

THAT IS HAPPENING, BUT IT IS AN INSTITUTION THAT DOESN'T WORK WELL WITH BEING FLEXIBLE AND ON THE GROUND IN A MEANINGFUL WAY.

IF YOU'RE A NEW MEXICAN, IT IS PRIMARILY -- IF YOU'RE LIVING IN THE AREAS AFFECTED, LET'S FOCUS ON MORA COUNTY, BUT THAT IS NOT THE ONLY COUNTY AFFECTED, BUT THEY HAVE BEEN LITERALLY, I THINK THE TECHNICAL WORD IS, HAMMERED BY THESE FLOODS.

IT IS A SLOW, ARDUOUS AND, BY DESIGN, FIND A WAY FOR YOU NOT TO BE ELIGIBLE FOR A PROGRAM, NOT THE REVERSE.

AND THAT HAS BEEN INCREDIBLY FRUSTRATING AND MIND NUMBING.

I HAD A REPORT TODAY AND THEY ARE CLEAR THAT I AM NOT HAPPY ABOUT THE LACK OF IMMEDIACY.

SO, THIS IS WHERE THE STATE, AND YOU'LL SEE AS WE HAVE BEEN PURCHASING AND BUYING LIVESTOCK FEED AND GETTING FOOD AND WE ARE LOOKING AT GETTING WOOD AND TEMPORARY HOUSING BECAUSE IF WE WAIT FOR FEMA OR THEIR OTHER PROGRAMS, IT WILL BE SEVERAL YEARS AND THAT IS UNTENABLE.

AND I NEED THE SENATE TO ACT ON LEGISLATION THAT IS IN FRONT OF THEM BECAUSE THIS ALLOWS US TO SORT OF IGNORE, TO SOME DEGREE, THESE ARDUOUS PROCESSES AND TO JUMP START RECOVERY IN THE STATE.

SO, IT IS BOTH.

THEY HAVE TAKEN RESPONSIBILITY.

THEY ARE ON THE GROUND STILL.

I HAVE 300 PEOPLE FROM FEMA ALONE ON THE GROUND HERE.

BUT IT SHOULD TRANSLATE, IN MY VIEW, TO A LOT MORE DEBRIS REMOVAL AND A WHOLE LOT MORE HELP FOR NEW MEXICANS, SO THEY ARE GOING -- THE STATE IS GOING TO HAVE TO COME IN AND DELIVER THAT FOR THEM AND WE WILL.

>> Laura: SO, AS GOVERNOR YOU HAVE ONE ROLE TO PLAY, ONE SET OF RESPONSIBILITIES THAT IS SEPARATE FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, BUT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT DOES CONTROL A LOT OF LAND IN THE STATE AND MAKES A LOT OF DECISIONS FOR US.

I AM THINKING, IN PARTICULAR, NOT JUST ABOUT FOREST MANAGEMENT BUT HOLTEC, THIS PRIVATE COMPANY THAT WANTS TO BRING THE NATION'S COMMERCIAL NUCLEAR WASTE HERE.

IS THERE A WAY FOR THE STATE TO BE STOPPING THIS FROM HAPPENING?

>> Lujan-Grisham: I BELIEVE SO.

I WANT TO BE CLEAR TO YOUR VIEWERS, IT IS NOT EASY OR A STRAIGHTFORWARD PATH.

I MEAN, REALITY IS THAT THE FEDERAL POLICY MAKERS AND FEDERAL GOVERNMENT KNEW THAT NO STATE REALLY WAS GOING TO STAND UP AND VOLUNTEER TO TAKE THE MOST DANGEROUS WASTE FROM ALL OF OUR NUCLEAR ENERGY AND NUCLEAR POWER PLANTS, SO, NOT JUST, BUT SPENT FUEL RODS, WHICH MOST PEOPLE ARE FAMILIAR WITH.

YOU DON'T WANT THOSE IN YOUR BACK YARD.

AND WHEN WE ARE WERE DOING THE WASTE ISOLATION PILOT PLANT, WE WERE DOING THAT IN THE 80'S.

ACTUALLY I USED TO WORK THERE IN THE 80'S RIGHT OUT OF COLLEGE.

I DID IT IN ALBUQUERQUE BECAUSE WE WERE STILL DRILLING, BUT THE WHOLE PURPOSE AND PROMISE WAS THAT NEW MEXICANS WOULD NEVER BE SUBJECTED TO HAVING NO ROLE OR CHOICE IN THE KIND OF NUCLEAR WASTE THAT WOULD BE DISPOSED OF AT WIIP.

WELL, FAST FORWARD TO 2022 AND WHAT WE HAVE IS A NEW FEDERAL STRUCTURE THAT SAYS STATES REALLY DON'T GET TO DECIDE.

AN INDEPENDENT COMMISSION GETS TO DECIDE, AND, OF COURSE, THEY ARE LEANING TOWARDS DECIDING THAT NEW MEXICO WILL BE THE RECIPIENT AND THAT THE COMPANY THAT THEY WILL WORK WITH TO DO THAT TRANSPORT AND MANAGEMENT IS A COMPANY CALLED HOLTEC.

SO, YOU SHOULD EXPECT US TO DO THESE THINGS THAT OTHER STATES HAVE DONE, PASS LEGISLATION THAT SAYS NEVER, HAVE THE ATTORNEY GENERAL, ALREADY IS, FILING LAWSUITS.

WE DO HAVE CONTROL OVER PERMITS AND LIKE EFFORT.

SO WE ARE POISED TO FIGHT IT AND TO REALLY ASK THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, HERE IS AN OPTION THAT THEY HAVE, THAT THEY HAVE NOT UNDERTAKEN, BECAUSE WE KEEP FIGHTING ABOUT WHERE IT SHOULD GO.

WHY DON'T WE DO THE RESEARCH TO BOTH SAFELY STORE IT WHERE IT IS AND CLEAN IT UP WHERE IT IS AND POTENTIALLY REUSE IT.

AND GIVEN THAT THIS IS A STATE THAT KNOWS ABOUT INNOVATION WITH TWO LABS, WE WOULD BE HAPPY TO DEDICATE OUR LABS TO WORK THAT WOULD MAKE A DIFFERENCE AROUND THE COUNTRY.

IT IS A NATIONAL ISSUE TO BE RESPONSIBLE FOR.

IN MY VIEW, THIS IS THE BEST WAY FOR NEW MEXICANS TO WORK THROUGH THIS PROBLEM FOR THE COUNTRY, WITHOUT JUST BEING TOLD THAT WE HAVE TO TAKE ON SOMETHING THAT I DON'T BELIEVE HAS THE RIGHT SAFETY STANDARD OR ASPECTS OR TRANSPARENCY BY A COMPANY THAT WE OUGHT TO BEING TOLD WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH.

SO WE ARE GOING TO FIGHT IT AND MY INTENTION, OF COURSE, IS TO WIN BUT I WANT NEW MEXICANS TO KNOW, IT IS A HEAVY LIFT, BECAUSE THEY CREATED A SYSTEM THAT DOESN'T ALLOW ME TO DIRECTLY SAY NO.

SO WE HAVE TO FIND OTHER LEGAL AVENUES TO DO THAT.

>> Ash Charzuk: I THINK THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE TEND TO FORGET THAT FOR YOU TO WANT TO CARE ABOUT A COMMUNITY YOU HAVE TO FEEL LIKE YOUR COMMUNITY CARES ABOUT YOU.

AND HAVING A SPACE TO TAKE CARE OF, HAVING A PLACE TO CALL YOUR OWN, IS SO INTEGRAL TO EVERYONE'S EXPERIENCE OF SAFETY AND FEELING A PART OF SOCIETY, COMMUNITY AND THE PEOPLE AROUND YOU -- >> Gene: IN PART TWO INTERVIEW OF OUR INTERVIEW LAURA ASKS THE GOVERNOR ABOUT WATER PLANNING IN AN AGE OF CLIMATE CHANGE.

THAT'S COMING UP IN THE SECOND HALF OF THE SHOW.

RIGHT NOW, WE ARE REACTING TO AN HISTORIC RULING THAT HAS FORCED REMOVAL OF A NEW MEXICO COUNTY OFFICIAL.

COUY GRIFFIN HAS BEEN BARRED FROM PUBLIC OFFICE FOR HIS ROLE IN THE JANUARY 6 INSURRECTION EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY.

THE RULING ALSO DISQUALIFIED THE FORMER OTERO COUNTY COMMISSIONER AND COWBOYS FOR TRUMP CO-FOUNDER FROM HOLDING ANY FUTURE PUBLIC OFFICE.

TIME TO BRING IN THE LINE OPINION PANEL FOR THE WEEK TO TALK THIS THROUGH.

HAPPY TO HAVE MICHAEL BIRD, PUBLIC CONSULTANT AND FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE AMERICAN PUBLIC HEALTH ASSOCIATION.

NEW ALSO HAVE TOM GARRITY OF THE GARRITY GROUP PUBLIC RELATIONS WITH US.

AND IT IS ALWAYS A PLEASURE TO HAVE CATHERINE MCGILL, FOUNDER AND DIRECTOR OF NEW MEXICO BLACK LEADERSHIP COUNCIL.

THANK YOU ALL FOR BEING HERE.

THIS RULING IS THE FIRST TIME ANY COURT RULED THE EVENT OF JANUARY 6, 2021 AN INSURRECTION BY DEFINITION.

TOM, HOW IMPORTANT IS IT TO HAVE THAT VERY PARTICULAR THING ON THE RECORD HERE?

>> Tom: WELL, IT IS OBVIOUSLY DEPENDING WHICH SIDE OF THE AISLE YOU'RE ON OR WHICH SIDE OF THIS CASE YOU'RE ON, IT IS VERY SIGNIFICANT.

BECAUSE WHAT IT IS, THE RULING IS PROOF OF CONCEPT THAT THE 14TH AMENDMENT OF THE U.S. CONSTITUTION IS MEANINGFUL AND CAN STILL BE USED AND DESPITE THE FACT THAT IT IS A STATE COURT RULING, WHICH MEANS IT ISN'T BINDING PRECEDENT FOR ANY OTHER COURT IN THE COUNTRY, IT STILL IS A SIGNIFICANT PROOF OF CONCEPT KIND OF RULING THAT OTHER STATES AND OTHER COURTS CAN TAKE A LOOK AT WHEN ADDRESSING THE INSURRECTION OF JANUARY 6.

>> Gene: IT IS INTERESTING THIS DECISION, FIRST TIME SINCE 1869 THIS RULING HAS BEEN USED.

IT WAS ALMOST LIKE A DOUBLE TAKE WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT IT, BUT THE JUDGE CLEARLY WAS NOT MESSING AROUND HERE, WAS HE?

>> Cathryn: NO, NOT AT ALL.

I WANT TO ADD TO THE STORY THAT ONE OF GRIFFIN'S ARGUMENTS WAS WHAT THEY WERE DOING WAS NO DIFFERENT THAN WHAT GROUPS LIKE BLACK LIVES MATTER HAVE DONE AND THE NAACP IN OTERO COUNTY AND COMMON CAUSE FILED A BRIEF SAYING THAT, YOU KNOW, IT IS NOT THE SAME.

AND THEY RECITED A LOT OF THE NATIONAL STORIES THAT PICKED THIS UP AND I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT, AS TOM SAID, THAT THIS WAS ABOUT INSURRECTION USING THE 14TH AMENDMENT.

THEY PROBABLY BELIEVE IT IS JUST GOING TO BE USED TO TRY TO, YOU KNOW, GO UP THE CHAIN AND TO GET MORE PEOPLE OUSTED OR BARRED UNDER THAT SAME RULING.

>> Gene: MICHAEL, THE JUDGE ALSO WROTE -- YOU CAN ACTUALLY FIND A LINK TO WHAT THE JUDGE WROTE ON A NUMBER OF WEBSITES.

EVIDENCE SHOWS MR. GRIFFIN NORMALIZED VIOLENCE BY ALIGNING HIMSELF WITH OTHER INSURRECTIONISTS.

HE ENCOURAGED OTHERS TO JOIN THE, QUOTE, WAR AND BATTLE IN THE STREETS OF WASHINGTON, END QUOTE.

AND I THINK IT IS PART OF IT AND WE CAN'T READ THE JUDGE'S MIND BUT IT WOULD SEEM THAT WAS A HUGE PART OF THE RULING.

>> Michael: CLEARLY.

I THINK THAT THE POINT I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE AND, YOU KNOW, THAT WE NEED TO REALLY BE AWARE OF AND ACKNOWLEDGE AND RECOGNIZE IS THE FACT THAT 114 POLICE OFFICERS, CAPITOL POLICE, WERE INJURED IN THAT INSURRECTION AND FOUR OF THEM, AS I UNDERSTAND, COMMITTED SUICIDE AND SEVEN PEOPLE DIED.

I BELIEVE THE NUMBER IS SEVEN DIED AS A RESULT OF THAT INSURRECTION.

AND I THINK THAT PEOPLE NEED TO BE AWARE OF THE FACT AND OWN IT THAT WORDS AND THIS KIND OF ACTION HAS CONSEQUENCES.

AND IN THIS CASE WE LOST POLICE OFFICERS AND WE LOST PEOPLE WHO GOT CAUGHT UP IN THIS INSURRECTION, SO THERE ARE CONSEQUENCES FOR WORDS AND LANGUAGE THAT PEOPLE USE AND SO PEOPLE NEED TO BE VERY THOUGHTFUL ABOUT WHAT THEY SAY AND HOW THEY SAY THINGS BECAUSE WORDS HAVE CONSEQUENCE.

>> Gene: TOM, I AM SO CURIOUS, WHAT IS NEXT FOR OTERO COUNTY?

MR. GRIFFIN SEEMS TO HAVE SOME MEASURE OF SUPPORT THERE, OF COURSE, IN HIS COMMUNITY AND ON THE BOARD OF COMMISSIONERS, VOTED TO DECERTIFY THAT PRIMARY ELECTION RESULT EARLY THIS YEAR AS YOU RECALL?

I AM WONDERING WHETHER THIS RULING WILL RESONATE AND CHANGE MINDS OR WILL BUILD MORE RESENTMENT.

YOU MENTIONED EARLIER, DEPENDING WHAT SIDE OF THE AISLE YOU'RE ON, HOW DOES THIS GO DOWN?

NOW THAT IT IS ACTUALLY A FACT NOW.

>> Tom: THERE IS THE PROCESS ASPECT WHICH IS, OF COURSE, THE COMMISSIONER -- THE COMMISSION SEAT BEING REFILLED AND DIFFERENT REPORTS INDICATE THAT COULD HAPPEN WITHIN THE NEXT COUPLE OF DAYS.

OF COURSE, WE ARE TAPING ON THURSDAY.

BUT, THE OTHER THING THAT IT IS REALLY GOING TO LOOK AT, IS WHAT IS THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE OF OTERO COUNTY?

THAT IS ONE OF THE CONTINUING NARRATIVES THAT I HAVE HEARD IN COY GRIFFIN'S COMMENTS AS A PART OF THIS PARTICULAR CASE IS THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE VERSUS THE WILL OF THE LAW.

IT IS REALLY THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE, I ALMOST HAVE TO WONDER WHY IS HE REPRESENTING HIMSELF IN COURT AS OPPOSED TO THE PEOPLE COMING UP ALONGSIDE AND HELPING.

I AM NOT ENTIRELY CONVINCED THAT THE MASSES THAT HE THINKS IS BEHIND HIM ARE NECESSARILY THERE.

THEY MIGHT BE.

THEY HAVE JUST BEEN SILENT SO FAR.

>> Gene: I AM GOING TO READ A QUOTE FROM MR. GRIFFIN, QUOTE, LOVE ME OR HATE ME.

I AM THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE OF OTERO COUNTY AND I STILL HAD THREE-AND-A-HALF MONTHS LEFT IN MY TERM, BUT JUDGE MATTHEW TOOK AWAY THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE IN OTERO COUNTY."

IS THAT WHAT HAPPENED HERE?

>> Cathryn: HE WAS ELECTED BY THE PEOPLE OF OTERO COUNTY, BUT IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT PEOPLE CONTINUE TO SUPPORT HIS BEHAVIOR RESULTING FROM WHAT HE DID ON JANUARY 6.

IT REMAINS TO BE SEEN, AS TOM SAID, WHETHER OR NOT THE PEOPLE ARE STILL ALONGSIDE HIM.

WE DIDN'T SEE ANY MARCHING IN THE STREETS WHEN THAT RULING CAME DOWN.

SO, I DOUBT THAT PEOPLE WERE SURPRISED THAT IT WAS HAPPENING AND I AM CERTAIN IT WILL BE APPEALED AND ALL THOSE THINGS, BUT, YOU KNOW, HE MAY THINK MORE OF HIMSELF THAN HE OUGHT TO.

>> Gene: CATHY MENTIONED AN APPEAL.

MR. GRIFFIN SAYS HE IS GOING TO APPEAL BUT INTERESTINGLY THIS CIVIL CASE WAS FILED IN MARCH BY A LOS ALAMOS RESIDENT AND TWO SANTA FE RESIDENTS.

I GOT TO IMAGINE OTERO COUNTY, THAT IS NOT GOING TO GO DOWN TOO WELL WITH THE PEOPLE IN OTERO COUNTY.

DOES THAT MAKE A DIFFERENCE HERE IN YOUR MIND?

>> Michael: IT MIGHT TO THE FOLKS IN OTERO BUT THERE IS THE LAW ACROSS THE BOARD.

>> Gene: LAST ONE ON THIS ONE TOO.

IF HE SAYS HE IS THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE DOWN THERE, THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE DID NOT REMOVE HIM OR ASK FOR HIS REMOVAL.

DOES THAT MAKE A DIFFERENCE HERE?

>> Cathryn: I THINK THE NAACP OTERO FILED A BRIEF, PRESIDENT JOSEPH COTTON TALKING ABOUT THAT CONSTITUENCY.

IT WASN'T ALL OF THE PEOPLE.

CERTAINLY SOME OF THE PEOPLE FELT LIKE HE SHOULD BE REMOVED FROM OFFICE AND REMAINS TO BE SEEN IF IT IS, QUOTE, UNQUOTE, THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE.

>> Gene: IT WAS NATIONAL NEWS.

I WAS LISTENING TO A BACK EAST RADIO STATION.

THIS WAS THE THIRD STORY IN AT THE TOP OF THE HOUR.

PEOPLE -- SUDDENLY NEW MEXICO IS ALL OVER THE NATIONAL NEWS AGAIN.

THANKS TO THE LINE OPINION PANEL ON THAT ONE.

WE'LL BE BACK HERE AT THE VIRTUAL ROUNDTABLE IN LESS THAN 10 MINUTES TO TALK ABOUT A NEW SURVEY THAT SHOWS MORE THAN 2/3 OF ALBUQUERQUE RESIDENTS ARE UNHAPPY WITH THE CITY'S RESPONSE HOMELESSNESS.

FIRST WE ARE GETTING SOME IMPORTANT PERSPECTIVE ON THE ISSUE FROM A GROUP ON THE GROUND EVERYDAY HELPING UNHOUSED PEOPLE MEET BASIC NEEDS.

LATE LAST WEEK I SPOKE WITH TWO LEADERS OF NEW MEXICO HARM REDUCTION COLLABORATIVE, ASH AND STEPH CHARZUK, WHO TELL ME HOMELESSNESS NEVER BEGINS AS A CHOICE AND PEOPLE IN THIS SITUATION NOW NEED OUR ATTENTION.

>> Gene: TERMS ARE IMPORTANT.

WHEN YOU SAY HARM REDUCTION, OR TOOLS FOR HARM REDUCTION, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN FOR THE LAY PERSON OUT THERE?

WHAT DO YOU USE THAT HELPS FOLKS GET THROUGH BASICALLY.

>> Ash Charzuk: WHAT WE MEAN SPECIFICALLY BY PROVIDING HARM REDUCTION SERVICES IS WE PROVIDE ANYTHING THAT IS GOING TO LESSEN THE AMOUNT OF HARM DONE TO A PERSON THROUGH DRUG USE OR THROUGH, YOU KNOW, ANY SORT OF SYSTEMIC OPPRESSION.

SO, THAT MEANS, YOU KNOW, SOMEBODY THAT IS UNHOUSED, FOR EXAMPLE, HARM REDUCTION THAT WE DO DAILY WITH PEOPLE UNHOUSED IS, OF COURSE, GOING TO RELATE TO STERILE SYRINGES USUALLY OR IT MIGHT BE SAFER SMOKING EQUIPMENT, BUT WHEN DRUG USE ISN'T A PRIMARY CONCERN OR THAT IS JUST NOT WHAT THEY NEED HELP WITH THAT DAY, WE DO A LOT OF STOCK FOOD, WATER.

SOMETIMES IT IS SOMETHING AS SIMPLE AS, YOU KNOW, MY TENT GOT THROWN AWAY AND I NEED TO FIND OUT WHERE TO GET A NEW ONE AND WHAT ORGANIZATIONS ARE GIVING AWAY TENTS.

I NEED TO FIND A WAY TO GET TO THE ER BUT I WON'T GO IN AN AMBULANCE.

FINDING OUT HOW TO USE ALL THE DIFFERENT SYSTEMS THAT ARE IN PLACE SO THAT THE PEOPLE THAT REALLY NEED HELP AND NEED THOSE SERVICES ARE NOT HAVING TO SIT THERE RACKING THEIR BRAINS NOT KNOWING HOW TO GET A HOLD OF A RESOURCE.

>> Gene: I AM CURIOUS, HOW YOU FIND THE ACCEPTANCE OF THESE TOOLS?

I KNOW REALLY THIS IS AN INDIVIDUAL BASIS MEANING EACH UNHOUSED PERSON, YOU'RE DEALING WITH THEIR OWN SET OF CIRCUMSTANCES THAT EITHER GET A YES OR A NO.

I AM CURIOUS AT THIS POINT IS A QUESTION -- YOU HAVE BEEN AT IT FOR TWO YEARS.

DO THEY KNOW YOU AND ARE THEY MORE ACCEPTING OF YOU AND THE THINGS YOU'RE OFFERING?

>> Steph Charzuk: YOU KNOW FOR THE MOST PART PEOPLE WANT HELP.

AND EVEN PEOPLE WHO DON'T NECESSARILY NEED OUR SERVICES ARE OFTENTIMES ACCEPTING OUR ASSISTANCE OR THE TOOLS WE ARE OFFERING TO HELP OTHER PEOPLE IN THEIR COMMUNITY, LIKE MANY PEOPLE WHO WE PROVIDE IV NEEDLES TO WILL OFTEN TAKE THEM WITH THE INTENTION OF GIVING THEM TO OTHER PEOPLE IF THEY DON'T HAVE CLEAN NEEDLES OR OFTENTIMES WE ARE HANDING OUT SHARPS CONTAINERS TO PEOPLE WHO ONLY WANT THEM TO CLEAN-UP THE AREAS THAT THEY ARE STAYING IN.

>> Gene: ASHLEY, INTERESTING.

I AM INTERESTED IN THIS AS WELL.

WHAT IS IT -- WHAT IS IT THAT IS LEADING TO HOMELESS HERE, IN YOUR VIEW?

I AM NOT ASKING YOU AS A POLICY EXPERT BUT SORT OF WHAT YOU GLEANED.

IS THERE A MAIN THREAD OR TWO OR THREE THINGS THAT LEAD FOLKS TO A PATH THAT BECOMES UNHOUSED IN ALBUQUERQUE?

>> Ash Charzuk: THE BIGGEST THING FOR THE PEOPLE THAT WE TALK TO EVERYDAY AND THE PEOPLE WE KNOW WELL IS THEY REPORT JUST NOT BEING ABLE TO GET AHEAD ENOUGH FINANCIALLY TO BE ABLE TO PAY RENT.

RENT IS ONE OF THE BIGGEST ISSUES EVERYWHERE RIGHT NOW AND CONSTANTLY TALKED ABOUT, AND RIGHT NOW IN ALBUQUERQUE, SOMETHING LIKE A STUDIO APARTMENT COULD GO AS HIGH UP AS LIKE $1500 IN SOME AREAS.

AND EVEN IN THE AREAS OF TOWN LIKE THE INTERNATIONAL DISTRICT WHERE WE ARE LOCATED, SOME OF THOSE STUDIO APARTMENTS MAY GO FOR LIKE 700 OR 800.

AND, A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE WORKING, YOU KNOW, MINIMUM WAGE JOBS OR THEY MIGHT BE -- MAYBE THEY HAVE A LEGAL BACKGROUND AND THEY CAN'T GET EMPLOYMENT EASILY OR THEY HAVE A HARD TIME GETTING BACK TO BEING EMPLOYED AFTER LOSING THEIR ID OR DOCUMENTS.

THERE IS NOT A LOT OUT THERE TO HELP PEOPLE GET ALL THE DUCKS IN A ROW TO FIX THE PROBLEM.

LIKE THERE IS A LOT OF CRACKS TO FALL THROUGH, BUT THERE ARE NOT LADDERS TO COME BACK UP OUT OF THOSE CRACKS.

>> Gene: POLITICALLY IT IS DIFFICULT.

THE CITY COUNCIL HAS BEEN BACK AND FORTH ON THIS.

OF COURSE EVERYONE HAS TO REPRESENT THEIR OWN DISTRICTS.

THEY ARE HEARING FROM THEIR OWN CONSTITUENTS AND THAT IS OUR SYSTEM AND NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT, I SUPPOSE, BUT I GOT TO WONDER STEPH IF JUST ONE, YOU KNOW, SAFE SPACE OPENS AND A POINT CAN BE PROVEN, THAT IT MIGHT FLIP THE COMMUNITY'S IDEA OF WHAT POSSIBILITIES CAN HAPPEN IN A SAFE SPACE, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN?

IS THAT A POSSIBILITY?

JUST GETTING ONE GOING AND HAVE IT JUST WORK SOMEWHAT BETTER THAN CORONADO DID, I THINK, WOULD FLIP A LOT OF PEOPLE HERE.

I AM NOT ON THE STREET LIKE YOU GUYS ARE.

I AM INTERESTED IN YOUR OPINION.

>> Steph Charzuk: I THINK THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE TEND TO FORGET THAT FOR YOU TO CARE ABOUT A COMMUNITY, YOU HAVE TO FEEL LIKE YOUR COMMUNITY CARES ABOUT YOU.

AND HAVING A SPACE TO TAKE CARE OF, HAVING A PLACE TO CALL YOUR OWN, IS SO INTEGRAL TO EVERYONE'S EXPERIENCE OF SAFETY AND FEELING A PART OF SOCIETY, COMMUNITY AND THE PEOPLE AROUND YOU.

I THINK THAT IF PEOPLE STOPPED AND THOUGHT ABOUT THAT, THAT, YEAH, ABSOLUTELY, GIVING THESE PEOPLE -- GIVING OUR COMMUNITY MEMBERS PLACES TO FEEL LIKE IT IS THEIR OWN AND IT IS THEIR FIRST STEP TOWARDS REJOINING THE REST OF SOCIETY.

>> Gene: ARE SAFE OUTDOOR SPACES THE ANSWER HERE FROM YOUR VIEW.

>> Ash Charzuk: IT IS HARD TO SAY IF THEY ARE.

ONE THING THAT I HAVE KIND OF PERSONALLY LOOKED INTO IS LOOKING AT CASE STUDIES FROM OTHER PLACES THAT HAVE DONE THIS, WHETHER THAT IS HERE IN THE U.S. OR IN CANADA OR ELSEWHERE.

AND IT DOESN'T SEEM TO BE A PERFECT SOLUTION BUT IT IS A SOLUTION NONETHELESS AND I BELIEVE THAT IF WE WERE ABLE TO, YOU KNOW, ALLOW SAFE OUTDOOR SPACES HERE IN ALBUQUERQUE, WHAT WE WOULD START TO SEE IS THAT PEOPLE WHO ARE UNHOUSED WANT TO HAVE SOME SENSE OF ORDER AND WHEN THE MORATORIUM CAME IN AND THE NEWS CAME DOWN THE LINE AND WE STARTED TELLING OUR PARTICIPANTS, LIKE, HEY, THEY ARE STOPPING THE APPLICATIONS, LIKE THEY WON'T ACCEPT ANYMORE APPLICATIONS FOR SAFE OUTDOOR SPACES, PEOPLE KEPT GIVING US THE SAME ANSWER OF, BUT WE WERE READY TO DO IT.

WE WOULD HAVE HELPED.

WE WOULD CLEANED.

WE WOULD HAVE TAKEN CARE OF THINGS.

AND, LIKE, THEY REALLY HAD THIS DRIVE TO BE LIKE, IF THIS IS THE ONLY THING WE CAN HAVE THAT'S ACCESSIBLE RIGHT NOW, LIKE, WE WOULD HAVE MADE IT THE BEST WE COULD.

SO IT WAS REALLY SAD TO SEE PEOPLE LET DOWN AND ALSO TO BE TOLD, LIKE, YOU KNOW, WHEN THEY KEEP GETTING MOVED OUT OF THE PARKS, YOU KNOW, LIKE PHIL CHACON WHICH WE WERE AT THE OTHER DAY WITH THE JOURNAL, A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE BEING TOLD BY THE CITY, NO, YOU HAVE TO GO ELSEWHERE, BUT THERE IS NO ELSEWHERE.

SO IT IS LIKE YOU NEVER REALLY KNOW WHERE YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO BE.

>> Gene: THANK YOU TO ASH AND STEPH CHARZUK FOR TAKING THE TIME TO SPEAK WITH ME.

THAT WAS ONLY AN EXCERPT OF A FAIRLY EXTENSIVE INTERVIEW.

I HAD A LOT OF QUESTIONS.

YOU CAN WATCH THE FULL CONVERSATION ONLINE RIGHT NOW ON OUR NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS YOUTUBE CHANNEL OR OUR FACEBOOK PAGE.

NOW, LET'S BRING THE LINE PANEL BACK IN.

HOMELESS ENCAMPMENTS HAVE BECOME A KEY DISCUSSION POINT IN THIS ISSUE.

CITY COUNCIL IS MOVING TO BAN THEM PERMANENTLY, WHILE THE MAYOR IS TRYING TO KEEP THE IDEA ALIVE.

BUT AS WE WAIT, OTHER NON-SANCTIONED ENCAMPMENTS KEEP POPPING UP.

ONE OF THEM AT WILSON PARK RIGHT NEXT TO THE MIDDLE SCHOOL.

NOW THE CITY IS ASKING SCHOOL THE DISTRICT TO HELP OUT AN UNDERSTAFFED POLICE FORCE TO KEEP THE PARK CLEAR.

IS THIS FAIR TO PULL A SCHOOL DISTRICT INTO THIS.

>> Cathryn: I THINK WE HAVE TO PULL EVERYBODY INTO IT.

>> Gene: ON SECURITY ISSUES?

>> Cathryn: YOU KNOW, SECURITY ISSUES, IF PEOPLE ARE LOOKING FOR A PLACE TO BE, OBVIOUSLY IT IS SOMETHING THAT WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH AND THERE IS A LOT OF REASONS THAT PEOPLE WIND UP LIVING OUTDOORS IN THE PARK.

WHEN IT BECOMES A SECURITY ISSUE, IF APS SECURITY CAN AND POLICE CAN HELP WITH MANAGING THE SECURITY OF THE PARK AND MAKING SURE THAT FAMILIES AND STUDENTS FEEL SAFE.

WE WERE INVOLVED IN A MEETING WHEN SOME OF THE CAREGIVERS AND PARENTS AT WILSON MIDDLE SCHOOL SAID THAT, YOU KNOW, THEY DIDN'T FEEL SAFE WITH THEIR CHILDREN WALKING HOME BY THESE HOMELESS CAMPS.

IT IS A PROBLEM THAT WE HAVE TO ADDRESS TAKING A HOLISTIC APPROACH AND SO I STAND BY MY COMMENT TO SAY EVERYBODY IS GOING TO HAVE TO WEIGH IN ON FIGURING OUT PIECES OF HOW WE SOLVE THIS HOMELESSNESS ISSUE, HOW WE AT LEAST MANAGE IT SO THAT WE CAN FIGURE OUT, IS IT GOING TO BE OKAY FOR PEOPLE TO BE IN THE PARK OR ARE WE GOING TO MOVE TO SOME SORT OF SANCTIONED, SAFE CAMP WHERE WE CAN THEN SAY TO PEOPLE, YOU CAN'T BE HERE, BUT YOU CAN GO TO THIS OTHER PLACE.

>> Gene: INTERESTINGLY APS SPENT ABOUT FIVE-AND-A-HALF MILLION ON FENCING AND GATES BETWEEN MAY 2020 AND NOW, NOT ALL HOMELESS RELATED, BUT A LOT OF MONEY HAS BEEN SPENT.

ACCORDING TO THE CITY'S 2022 PERCEPTION SURVEY, I CAN'T BELIEVE I AM GOING TO SAY THIS.

MAYBE I DO, ACTUALLY.

70% OF ALBUQUERQUE RESIDENTS ARE UNHAPPY WITH THE CITY'S APPROACH TO HOMELESSNESS AND 41% GAVE THE CITY THE LOWEST POSSIBLE RATING.

PERCEPTION IS ONE THING AND REALITY CERTAINLY, AS YOU KNOW, ANOTHER.

ARE PEOPLE RIGHT TO HAVE SUCH A NEGATIVE OUTLOOK ON THIS ISSUE AT THIS POINT.

>> Tom: WHETHER THEY HAVE A RIGHT OR NOT, I THINK THE 70% IS THE NUMBER THAT IS KIND OF DEFINING THIS PARTICULAR ISSUE FROM A PERCEPTION PERSPECTIVE.

YOU KNOW, OF COURSE, THE TIMING OF IT, I WOULD BE INTERESTED, AND FORGOT TO TAKE A LOOK AT THIS AS I LOOKED AT BRIAN SANDEROFF OFF CROSS TABS, BUT I DON'T KNOW IF, YOU KNOW, THE QUESTION WAS BEING ASKED JUST AS CORONADO WAS BEING CLOSED DOWN.

OR IF THAT WAS PART OF THE DEBATE, BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, CLOSING CORONADO ENDED UP BEING LIKE WHACKING A BEEHIVE WITHOUT A PLAN OF HOW TO ADDRESS ALL THE DISPLACED BEES.

AND, SO, IT WAS REALLY NOT NECESSARILY THE FINEST MOMENT BUT COULD HAVE HAD A BIG IMPACT IN HOW RESIDENTS RESPONDED TO THIS PARTICULAR ISSUE.

DESPITE THAT, I THINK THAT WHILE IT COULD BE JUST A BLIP, IT IS PRETTY SIGNIFICANT AND I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE IN ALBUQUERQUE AND SURROUNDING AREA ARE SAYING, YEAH, HOMELESSNESS IS THE NO.

1 ISSUE FACING RESIDENTS OF ALBUQUERQUE.

>> Gene: I WANT TO ASK WHAT YOU MAKE OF THE CHANGE OVER TWO YEARS HERE IN YOUR EXPERIENCE DOING PERCEPTION SURVEYS WITH YOUR OWN COMPANY.

JUST TWO YEARS AGO ONLY 36% OF THE PEOPLE GAVE THE CITY AN UNFAVORABLE RATING AND NOW IT DOUBLED IN TWO YEARS.

WHAT DOES YOUR GUT SAY ABOUT THAT?

IS THAT A BLIP?

IS THAT AN ANOMALY?

CAN YOU ACTUALLY DOUBLE THE AMOUNT OF PEOPLE IN JUST TWO YEARS BEING UNHAPPY.

IT IS INCREDIBLE.

>> Tom: THAT WAS A SURPRISE TO GO ME AS WELL.

BECAUSE, TYPICALLY, WITH OUR PERCEPTION SURVEY, YOU KNOW, IT IS PRETTY STABLE AS FAR AS THE DIFFERENT INDUSTRIES AND TRUST OF DIFFERENT PROFESSIONS, BUT EVERY ONCE IN A WHILE YOU GET AN OUTLIER THAT SHOOTS STRAIGHT UP.

WHETHER OR NOT IT AS BLIP OR MAYBE SOME OF THE OTHER RISING CONCERN, WE WON'T KNOW UNTIL NEXT YEAR, TO SEE WHERE IT CHARTS OVER THAT THREE-YEAR TRENDS.

BUT, REMEMBER, TWO YEARS AGO, WE WERE RIGHT AT THE START OF COVID-19.

THERE WAS A LOT OF UNCERTAINTY, NOW THAT WE ARE OUT ON THE OTHER SIDE, YOU KNOW, EMOTIONS ARE A BIT RAW AND PEOPLE ARE KIND OF, YOU KNOW, FEEL LIKE THEY HAVE BEEN THROUGH QUITE A BIT AND WE ALL HAVE.

AND SO PERHAPS THAT IS SOME OF WHAT IS REFLECTED.

>> Tom: GOOD POINT, I THINK I MIGHT BUY WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.

THE GATEWAY CENTER, WE HAVE TO TALK ABOUT THAT.

SO MUCH EMPHASIS IS PUT ON THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS, CERTAINLY EXPECTATIONS ARE SKY HIGH.

ANY HOPE IT WILL ACCOMPLISH AS MUCH AS THE CITY IS PROMISING OR HAVE THEY OVER-PROMISED?

HOW SHOULD WE CONSIDER THE GATEWAY CENTER AT THIS POINT?

>> Michael: AS WE HAVE HAD CONVERSATIONS FOR A WHILE NOW ABOUT THE NATURE, YOU KNOW, WHAT IS BEHIND HOMELESSNESS, WHAT IS THE NATURE OF IT.

AND, AGAIN, I WOULD SAY THAT CLEARLY IT IS NOT JUST AN ALBUQUERQUE PROBLEM.

IT IS A NATIONAL PROBLEM.

SO, THERE ARE SOME THINGS WE HAVE SOME CONTROL AND INFLUENCE OVER AND THERE ARE SOME FACTORS THAT WE HAVE LESS CONTROL OVER.

IN TERMS OF THE GATEWAY CENTER, BASED ON WHAT I KNOW TO THIS POINT, IT SEEMS TO ME TO BE AN APPROPRIATE RESPONSE AND, BUT, YOU KNOW, ONE CAN ONLY HOPE THAT THEY REALLY THOUGHT THIS OUT, HAVE A GOOD PLAN AND WHEN IT IS IMPLEMENTED THAT IT, IN FACT, WILL IMPACT -- HAVE SOME SORT OF MEASURABLE IMPACT ON REDUCING LEVELS OF HOMELESSNESS.

YOU KNOW, HAVING BACKGROUND AS A MEDICAL SOCIAL WORKER AND HAVING WORKED WITH INDIAN HEALTH SERVICE AND IN MANY CASES WORKED WITH PEOPLE WHO ARE ON THE STREET, IN MY PAST, IT IS A POPULATION THAT IS EXTREMELY CHALLENGING.

IT IS A POPULATION THAT OFTENTIMES THERE IS A LONG HISTORY OF FAMILY DISRUPTION, VIOLENCE, SUBSTANCE ABUSE OVER GENERATIONS IN SOME CASES AND THAT KIND -- THAT NATURE OF WORKING WITH SOMEONE WHO HAS BEEN IMPACTED IN THAT WAY AND, YOU KNOW, THERE IS A WHOLE HOST -- WE KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON WITH THEM FROM THE STANDPOINT OF THE CONDITIONS, SUBSTANCE ABUSE AND MENTAL DISORDERS AND ALL THAT, THAT IS AN EXTREMELY CHALLENGING POPULATION TO INTERVENE WITH SO IT IS NOT FOR THE FAINT HEARTED.

AND WE ARE GOING TO BE LOOKING FOR SOME SAINTS OUT THERE TO REALLY WORK WITH THEM IN A WAY THAT IS MEANINGFUL, THAT RESPECTS THEM, BUT IT ENGAGES THEM AND SHOWS THEM THERE ARE SOME OTHER WAYS IN TERMS OF OPTIONS FOR THEM TO GET OUT OF HOMELESSNESS.

>> Gene: MY FAULT, YOU ANTICIPATED MY NEXT QUESTION.

LET ME SHOW IT TO CATHY.

THERE IS A SERVICE THIS CENTER WILL HAVE, CALLED, QUOTE, UNQUOTE, THE FIRST RESPONDER DROPOFF WHERE POLICE CAN TAKE INDIVIDUALS THEY PICKED UP WHO DON'T BELONG AT THE HOSPITAL OR IN JAIL.

AND THE CITY'S COMMUNITY SERVICES DEPARTMENT DIRECTOR SAYS THIS IS A HUGE STEP IN HELPING PEOPLE WHO ARE INTOXICATED, SUFFERING FROM MENTAL ILLNESS.

THIS SOUNDS LOGICAL LIKE SOMETHING THAT SHOULD HAVE HAPPENED A LONG TIME AGO.

I'M CURIOUS YOUR REACTION TO THIS.

>> Cathryn: I THINK IT IS GOING TO BE GREAT AND IT NEEDS TO BE ALL OF THESE INTERVENTIONS SO BEING ABLE TO KEEP PEOPLE FROM GOING TO THE EMERGENCY ROOMS OR GOING TO JAIL AND DROPPING THEM OFF AT THE GATEWAY CENTER, I THINK, WILL BE GREAT.

SO, YOU KNOW, OUR GOAL AS COMMUNITY MEMBERS IS TO MAKE SURE THAT THE CITY IS ACCOUNTABLE FOR MAINTAINING ITS POLICY, PRACTICES AND PROCEDURES AND THE THINGS THAT WE ARE BEING TOLD ACTUALLY GET EXECUTED IN A WAY THAT THEY ENVISION.

AND I ALSO THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, SPEAKING OF SAINTS, MY EARS PERKED UP WHEN I HEARD MICHAEL SAY SAINTS THAT WE ARE GOING TO NEED SOME, I HAVE HEARD ONE OF THE COUNCIL TESTIMONY, PUBLIC TESTIMONY, ABOUT A CHURCH WHO IS -- TOLD A TALE OF TWO DIFFERENT ENCAMPMENTS.

AND THERE WAS ONE THAT PICKED UP OUTSIDE THEIR GATE THAT ALL THE THINGS THAT WE HEARD ABOUT HAPPENING WITH ENCAMPMENTS WAS HAPPENING.

IT WAS DIRTY.

YOU KNOW THERE WAS SOME UNWANTED ACTIVITY.

AND THEN HE TALKED ABOUT THE ENCAMPMENT THAT THE CHURCH IS PLANNING ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE FENCE, WHICH IS GOING TO BE FOR PEOPLE TO BE ABLE TO BE IN THEIR CARS, THEY WILL HAVE THE ABILITY FOR PEOPLE TO BE ABLE TO USE THE RESTROOM TO GET A SHOWER, AND SO THE CHURCH IS TAKING THAT ON, PAYING FOR IT, AND, SO, MAYBE WE NEED TO LOOK AT SOME OF THOSE OTHER KINDS OF OPPORTUNITIES AS MICHAEL MENTIONED, WE NEED TO FIND SOME THINGS AND PERHAPS CHURCHES WHO MIGHT SAY THAT, YOU KNOW, WHAT CAN WE DO?

EVERYBODY IS GOING TO HAVE TO FIGURE OUT HOW WE GET IN TO SOLVE THIS PROBLEM.

>> Gene: OF COURSE, THE BIG NEWS, THE MORATORIUM IS OUT.

THE VETO HAS BEEN BROKEN.

WEDNESDAY NIGHT CITY COUNCIL VOTED TO GET HOMELESS ENCAMPMENTS BACK ON AS A REALITY AGAIN WITH TRUDY JONES CHANGING HER VOTE FROM 6-3 AND DIDN'T HAVE ENOUGH VOTES TO HOLD.

THE MAYOR PREVAILS THERE.

I'LL TALK ABOUT THAT IN MY CLOSING THOUGHT.

THANKS AGAIN TO OUR OPINION PANEL.

THIS IS AN EXTREMELY COMPLEX ISSUE AND WE'RE WORKING TO BRING YOU EVERY PERSPECTIVE AS THE CITY GRAPPLES WITH POTENTIAL SOLUTIONS.

THERE ARE CERTAINLY COMPLEX ISSUES IMPACTING OUR ENVIRONMENT RIGHT NOW, TOO, AND WATER IS AT THE TOP OF THE LIST.

IN PART 2 OF HER EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW, LAURA PASKUS ASKS GOVERNOR MICHELLE LUJAN GRISHAM ABOUT THE STATE'S LONG-TERM WATER PLANS AND THE OBSTACLES THAT STAND IN THE WAY.

>> Laura: I WANTED TO PIVOT TO WATER PLANNING.

YOUR ADMINISTRATION'S FIRST STATE ENGINEER DON DE ANTONIO, HE RESIGNED, CITING A LACK OF FINANCIAL SUPPORT.

I AM CURIOUS IF THAT HAS CHANGED IN THREE YEARS SINCE YOUR -- FOUR YEARS ALMOST INTO YOUR ADMINISTRATION, WHAT ADVANCES, WHAT PROGRESS HAVE YOU MADE ON WATER POLICY IN THE STATE?

>> Lujan-Grisham: I THINK WE HAVE MADE CONSIDERABLE ADVANCEMENTS BUT TO YOUR POINT THE STATE ENGINEER'S OFFICE HAS BEEN WOEFULLY UNDERSTAFFED AND UNDERFUNDED FOR WELL MORE THAN A DECADE BEFORE 2019 WHEN I TOOK OFFICE AS GOVERNOR.

AND, PRIMARILY, I THINK, NOT BECAUSE POLICYMAKERS, BOTH PARTIES, DON'T CARE ABOUT WATER.

BUT, THERE IS AN INTERESTING SET OF CIRCUMSTANCES THAT CAUSE NEW MEXICO POLICYMAKERS NOT TO THINK ABOUT IT, IN MY VIEW, IN THE RIGHT WAY.

ONE, WATER IN EVERY ARID STATE IS A LOT ABOUT FIGHTING OVER WATER.

RIGHT?

AND WATER JURISDICTION AND WATER OWNERSHIP.

SO, BASICALLY, THE STATE ENGINEER'S OFFICE HAS BEEN TRANSFORMED INTO A LARGE LITIGATION OFFICE, AND WE NEED IT, BECAUSE OTHER STATES SUE US LIKE TEXAS FOR WATER.

SO WE ARE CONSTANTLY INVOLVED IN WATER LITIGATION.

WE HAVE PLENTY OF INTERNAL WATER LITIGATION AND IF YOU LOOK AT ALL THE WATER SETTLEMENTS IN COMMUNITIES, PRIMARILY THOSE IMPACTED BY SOVEREIGN WATER RIGHTS.

AND WE HAVE SETTLED A RECORD NUMBER OF THESE SOVEREIGN RIGHTS WATER CASES, SO THAT WE ARE ASSURING WATER DELIVERY, WE ARE PROTECTING SOVEREIGN WATER RIGHTS AND WE ARE PUTTING, FRANKLY, AND WE NEED TO, HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS INTO ASSURING SAFE RELIABLE WATER IN A VARIETY OF PLACES.

SO WE ARE GETTING TO THE LAGUNA WATER SETTLEMENT THAT JUST GOT SENT TO THE FEDS.

THE AAMODT WATER SETTLEMENT IS ABOUT DONE IN TERMS OF THE MONEY THAT IT NEEDED BUT WITH A BIG FIRST CHUNK EARLY IN MY ADMINISTRATION, 2019, 100 MILLION, WATER SETTLEMENTS GOING ALL UP THE RIO GRANDE CORRIDOR, THOSE ARE RECURRING WITH THOSE SOVEREIGN NATIONS.

SO WHEN YOU'RE THINKING ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT A LITTLE COMMUNITY LIKE KUAYAMUNGA HAS GOING TO HAVE ACCESS TO WATER, THESE ARE CRITICAL ASPECTS THAT HAVE TO GET DONE AND THEY REQUIRE HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE WORKING ON THEM.

WE DON'T HAVE HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE AND THEY ARE LITERALLY IN COURT OR DOING HEARINGS EVERY SINGLE DAY.

SO THAT HAS MIRED POLICYMAKERS AND SORT OF WHAT I CALL LEANING FORWARD IN THE STATE ENGINEERS OFFICE AND IT IS A FAIR CRITICISM BY THOSE ABOUT WHAT HAS HAPPENED.

WE HAVE ASKED THE LEGISLATURE, WE GOT SOME REAL INVESTMENTS LAST YEAR.

WE NEED TO TRANSCEND FROM THAT ENVIRONMENT INTO A WHOLE NEW POLICY ARM.

MOST OF THE POLICY WORK IN JUST ONE YEAR HAS BEEN AT TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHY WE RUN OUT OF WATER.

SO TAKE CHAMA AS AN EXAMPLE AND THERE IS NO MYSTERY HERE.

WE DIDN'T INVEST FOR 50 YEARS IN WATER INFRASTRUCTURE.

IT IS ALL BROKEN AND WHEN IT IS BROKEN AND WATER DOESN'T REACH ITS END USERS, GUESS WHAT PEOPLE DO?

THEY PUT ILLEGAL TAPS INTO A WATER SYSTEM AND NOT CERTAINLY, YOU KNOW, MAD AT THAT INDIVIDUAL, BECAUSE I UNDERSTAND YOU NEED WATER, BUT THAT CANNOT BE THE SYSTEM.

INCLUDING ILLEGAL SEPTIC.

I DON'T KNOW IF YOU CALL IT IS A SYSTEM, TANK.

THAT HAS ERODED WATER VIABILITY IN EVERY SINGLE COMMUNITY.

WE RERAN OUT OF WATER IN CUBA.

WE RAN OUT OF WATER IN CHAMA.

TODAY IS THE FIRST FULL DAY WE DIDN'T ACTUALLY HAVE A GENERATOR BURN OUT IN FILTERING WATER IN LAS VEGAS.

WE ARE FIXING DAMS, EVERY DAM IN NEW MEXICO, DRY AND WET, THAT EVERY DAM.

SO THE POLICY ACTUALLY FIRST WE NEED TO FIX FAILING INFRASTRUCTURE BECAUSE YOU CAN DECIDE ANY NUMBER OF WATER CONSERVATIONS AND WATER INNOVATION, WATER CAPTURING, MOTIVATING FACTORS THAT ACTUALLY GET PEOPLE TO USE LESS, BUT IF THEY NEVER COULD GET IT IN THE FIRST PLACE OR IT IS SO UNRELIABLE, WE AREN'T GOING TO MOVE NEW MEXICANS INTO THAT ARENA.

SO, THIS WHOLE NEXT YEAR IS FINISHING ALL OF THAT WATER INFRASTRUCTURE.

SO THE FEDERAL MONIES, WELL OVER SO FAR, 100 MILLION AND WELL MORE THAN THAT IS COMING.

THE STATE LEGISLATURE HAS PUT IN 30 PLUS, SO 10'S OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS, THAT IS NOW OUT THE DOOR.

WE FINISHED UP THE SETTLEMENT AND THE ONLY WORK NOW THAT WE ARE ABLE TO GET THAT DONE IS WE HAVE TO FIGURE OUT WAYS TO CONSERVE THE WATER WE HAVE, TO BE REALLY CLEAR ABOUT HOW MUCH WATER WE AREN'T GOING TO HAVE.

WE HAVE TO MAKE THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT DO WHAT THEY NEED TO DO WITH THE COLORADO RIVER.

I THINK THEY ARE NOW.

AND HAVING MONEY CREATES A DIFFERENT SET OF OPPORTUNITIES FOR STATES WHO ARE JUST GOING TO FIGHT.

AND NOW IT IS HAVING RESOURCES DOES GIVE YOU AN OPPORTUNITY TO BE INNOVATIVE.

NEW MEXICANS SHOULD EXPECT THAT A LOT MORE IS COMING OUT OF THE STATE ENGINEER'S OFFICE.

BUT TO BE FAIR TO THE FORMER STATE ENGINEER, I DON'T THINK HE WAS WRONG ONE IOTA ABOUT A SET OF CONDITIONS WE ALL INHERITED THERE AND IT IS REALLY TIME TO TRANSCEND THAT.

>> Laura: THE GOVERNOR HAS A LOT OF POWER IN TERMS OF SETTING THE AGENDA FOR THE LEGISLATURE AND I AM CURIOUS IF YOU ARE REELECTED WHERE DOES CLIMATE CHANGE AND WATER PLANNING FIT ON YOUR AGENDA IN TERMS OF NUDGING THE STATE LEGISLATURE NEXT YEAR?

>> Lujan-Grisham: IF WE DON'T HAVE WATER, THERE ISN'T ANYTHING ELSE WE CAN DO.

WHERE THE FUNDING GRANTS ARE AGA\IN, AS I TALKED ABOUT THE FIRES, THE STATE HAS AN OPPORTUNITY -- I MEAN THESE ARE ONCE IN A LIFETIME SETS OF OPPORTUNITIES.

WE NEED TO TAKE THEM.

THE WATER CONSERVATION FUND AND THE INTERSTATE STREAM COMMISSION ARE EXAMPLES OF FORWARD THINKING IN FORMER DEMOCRATIC ADMINISTRATIONS.

YOU CAN'T WAIT A YEAR WHEN YOU NEED WATER INFRASTRUCTURE MONEY.

WHEN PEOPLE NEED WATER THEY NEED IT.

THAT WAS REALLY BACK THEN A VERY CREATIVE WAY TO CREATE A FUND AND PUT WATER OUT, BUT IT IS SMALL IN THE WAY IN WHICH THEY REPLENISH THAT FUND IS ALSO TOO SMALL TO DEAL WITH A RAPIDLY CHANGING ENVIRONMENT AND A MUCH HOTTER, DRYER ENVIRONMENT.

THAT IS NOT GOING TO STOP AND I HEAR NEW MEXICANS ALL THE TIME NOW SAY, THESE ARE RECORD RAINFALLS.

IT HAS BEEN A PRODUCTIVE MONSOON SEASON BUT IF YOU THINK THIS SEASON IS THE BIGGEST MONSOON SEASON EVER, NOT TRUE.

IF YOU THINK THAT THIS WAS ENOUGH TO ERADICATE DECADES OF ARIDIFICATION HERE, ALSO, NOT ENOUGH.

AND IT IS NOT JUST HAPPENING HERE.

IT IS HAPPENING EVERYWHERE AND THE WEST IS PARTICULARLY IMPACTED, WHICH MEANS WHERE WE GET OTHER WATER ISN'T COMING TO US.

WE HAVE TO PUT SIZEABLE RESOURCES INTO FUNDS THAT ALLOW US TO, IN REALTIME, INVEST STRATEGIES THAT ARE DEVELOPED BY STATE AND BY TECH AND BY THE LABS AND BY OUR OWN STATE ENGINEER AND DEPLOY THEM IN REALTIME.

THE LEGISLATURE SHOULD SET THOSE PARAMETERS IN A FUND AND THEN GIVE US THE FUNDS AND MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE ALLOCATING ALL THE TIME.

I ALSO WANT DISCUSSION TO BE ABOUT HEALTHCARE DELIVERY AND BEHAVIORAL HEALTH AND EDUCATION AND PUBLIC SAFETY.

AND WE HAVE MADE -- WE PLANTED THE SEEDS AND OUR GARDEN IS GROWING.

BUT, NONE OF THAT IS MATURE AND TO STOP DOING THOSE INVESTMENTS TODAY WOULD BE A DISASTER FOR A STATE THAT STILL NEEDS SO MUCH IN THOSE AREAS.

SO, I HAVE BOLD AND BIG PLANS FOR THIS UPCOMING LEGISLATIVE SESSION, WHERE I THINK BY THE TIME WE'RE IN SESSION, IF I AM LUCKY ENOUGH TO BE IN THAT POSITION AGAIN, WE'LL HAVE FOUR BILLION DOLLARS TO SAVE, TO INVEST, AND TO UTILIZE IN MEANINGFUL WAYS TO SOLVE WHOLE PROBLEMS NOT TO SORT OF NIBBLE AROUND THE EDGES.

IT IS AN INCREDIBLE EXCITING TIME FOR NEW MEXICO.

IT IS.

>> Laura: THANK YOU GOVERNOR FOR JOINING ME.

>> Lujan-Grisham: THANK YOU LAURA AND THANK YOU FOR CARING ABOUT OUR PLANET.

>> Gene: YOU CAN WATCH LAURA'S ENTIRE CONVERSATION WITH THE GOVERNOR ONLINE RIGHT NOW.

THEY DIVE INTO ISSUES LIKE OIL AND GAS, GROUNDWATER CONTAMINATION BY THE AIR FORCE AND CLIMATE CHANGE.

IT'S ALL ONLINE AT NMPBS.ORG.

WELCOME BACK TO LINE OPINION PANELISTS.

WE HAVE ONE FINAL DISCUSSION TO GET TO, RED FLAG LAWS, AND NEW INVESTIGATION FROM THE ASSOCIATED PRESS THAT SHOWS HOW LITTLE THEY ARE USED AROUND THE COUNTRY, BUT ESPECIALLY HERE IN NEW MEXICO.

RED FLAG LAWS, IF YOU DON'T KNOW, ARE DESIGNED TO ALLOW POLICE OFFICERS TO PETITION A JUDGE TO ORDER A GUN OWNER, WHO POSES IMMINENT DANGER TO THEMSELVES OR OTHERS, TO SURRENDER FIREARMS.

SINCE 2020 MORE THAN 600 PEOPLE HAVE DIED FROM GUN VIOLENCE IN NEW MEXICO, BUT OUR STATE'S RED FLAG LAW HAS BEEN USED JUST EIGHT TIMES IN THAT SAME TIME PERIOD.

NOW, TOM, STARTING BROADLY, HOW SURPRISED WERE YOU TO SEE THOSE STATS AND THOSE STATISTICS?

>> Tom: IT WAS AN INTERESTING STORY.

OBVIOUSLY THE AP STORY PROVIDED A COMPARISON ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

AND NEW MEXICO HAD THE LOWEST NUMBER AND I AM NOT -- I WAS SURPRISED ESPECIALLY IN COMPARISON TO COLORADO THAT WAS WELL INTO DOUBLE DIGITS BUT, YOU KNOW, OVERALL, YOU KNOW, IT KIND OF REINFORCED MY THOUGHT THAT NEW MEXICO AND OTHER STATES IN THE WEST REALLY HAVE A CONFLICT OF SORTS AS FAR AS, YOU KNOW, GUN RIGHTS ARE CONCERNED, AND FOR ME IT REALLY KIND OF PICKED UP AN IDEA THAT PERHAPS THIS IS REALLY A BEHAVIORAL HEALTH ISSUE AS FAR AS HOW TO ADDRESS BEHAVIORAL HEALTH AS MANIFESTING ITSELF AS A SECOND AMENDMENT ISSUE.

AND, OBVIOUSLY, IF PEOPLE ARE GOING TO DO BAD THINGS, THEY ARE GOING TO USE ANYTHING AT THEIR DISPOSAL TO DO THOSE BAD THINGS, WHETHER IT IS A HANDGUN, A KNIFE, AND SO, YOU KNOW, FOR ME IT WAS JUST MORE OF A REFLECTION OF HOW THE EASTERN PART OF THE U.S. AND WESTERN PART OF THE U.S. ARE REALLY KIND OF GRAPPLING WITH THIS ISSUE.

>> Gene: GOOD POINT, YOUR LAST POINT, A BIG PART OF THE PUZZLE HERE.

YOU KNOW, CATHY, THIS HAS A TENDENCY FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT LOCALLY WHO ULTIMATELY INITIATE THIS PROCESS, AS YOU KNOW, A LOT OF POLICE HERE BELIEVE SEIZING GUNS CAN BE DANGEROUS AND, FRANKLY, UNNECESSARY, INCLUDING THE HEAD OF THE NEW MEXICO SHERIFFS' ASSOCIATION WHICH LOBBIED AGAINST THE STATE LAW, AS YOU RECALL.

HOW CAN WE CHANGE THE PERCEPTION AMONG LAW ENFORCEMENT OR SHOULD WE OR CAN WE?

WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF WHERE THEY ARE AT ON THIS?

>> Cathryn: IT IS DIFFICULT TO LEGISLATE PEOPLES' ATTITUDE AND THEIR ATTITUDE IS MORE IN LINE WITH THINKING THAT WE NEED TO MAKE GUN SANCTUARY CITIES AND THAT PEOPLE HAVE A RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS AND THEIR SECOND AMENDMENT RIGHTS, BUT WHAT WE KNOW IS THAT, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS IF WE COULD TALK TO THEM ABOUT HOW OUR SUICIDE RATE IS ONE OF THE HIGHEST IN THE NATION AND ONE OF THE MAJOR WAYS THAT PEOPLE COMMIT SUICIDE IS THROUGH USE OF A HANDGUN.

SO IF THEY COULD MAYBE, YOU KNOW, THINK ABOUT IT JUST IN TERMS OF THAT AND NOT IN TERMS OF WE ARE TRYING TO TAKE AWAY YOUR GUNS, BUT WE ARE TRYING TO MAKE SURE THAT PEOPLE WHO ARE IN DANGER OF AT LEAST HARMING THEMSELVES, THAT WE ARE ABLE TO SAY, THIS IS THE PERSON THAT SHOULD PROBABLY NOT LEGALLY OWN A FIREARM AND IT IS A BEHAVIORAL HEALTH ISSUE THAT MANIFESTS AS A SECOND AMENDMENT RIGHT.

AND IT IS, YOU KNOW, THEY NEED TO JUST LIKE THINK ABOUT IT IN DIFFERENT WAYS AND LOOK AT SOME OF THE STATISTICS THAT HAVE HAPPENED OVER THE COUNTRY TO SAY THAT PEOPLE WHO DO HAVE RED FLAG LAWS AND ARE USING THEM HAVE FEWER FIREARM DEATHS.

>> Gene: MICHAEL, CATHY'S POINT UNDERSCORES THE NEED FOR ACTION ON THIS.

THE RATE OF GUN VIOLENCE IN OUR STATE IS 55% HIGHER THAN IT WAS JUST 10 YEARS AGO.

AND THE FINANCIAL TONE OF THE STATE IS COSTING ALMOST 5% OF THE STATE GDP.

IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE WE NEED TO KNOW HERE BEFORE WE GET TO SOME KIND OF SOLUTION?

>> Michael: I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WAS REFERENCED WAS THE FACT, WHAT WAS IT, 78% OF U.S. PEOPLE SUPPORT RED FLAG AND THAT IS THE PUBLIC.

SO, I THINK THAT ANYONE WHO SERVES IN ANY CAPACITY AS A PUBLIC SERVANT, BE THEY POLICE, BE THEY SHERIFFS, FIRE DEPARTMENT, BE THEY CITY, COUNTY GOVERNMENT, IF YOU'RE IN THAT SORT OF -- IF YOU ASSUME THAT ROLE AND THAT PROFESSION, THEN YOU HAVE A DUTY TO, I THINK, DO YOUR BEST DUE DILIGENCE TO MAKE A COMMITMENT TO PROVIDING AND SUPPORTING AND PROTECTING THE PUBLIC, EVERYONE.

CLEARLY, THE BEHAVIORAL HEALTH REFERENCE AND SUBSTANCE ABUSE ISSUE HERE IN NEW MEXICO, THAT IS ALL PART AND PARCEL OF IT AND IT JUST -- THEN WE HAVE GOT, YOU KNOW, OUR DWI ACCIDENTS, I MEAN, THEY ARE NOT ACCIDENTS, YOU KNOW, FATALITIES IN THE STATE.

THERE IS A HOST OF THESE ISSUES AND I AM NOT SURE THAT WE REALLY ARE COMING AT THIS FROM A HOLISTIC PERSPECTIVE BECAUSE THEY ALL CAN BE SOMEWHAT INTERRELATED, INTERCONNECTED AND IT REALLY IN MY MIND GOES BACK TO THE FAMILY OF ORIGIN, YOU KNOW, WHERE YOUR PARENTS, YOUR GRANDPARENTS AND SOME FAMILIES.

IF YOU HAVE A STRONG FAMILY, IF YOU HAVE A FAMILY THAT HAS A HOME, AND ADEQUATE INCOME AND ALL OF THOSE THINGS, THAT THE CHANCES OF CHILDREN GROWING UP BEING HEALTHY AND WELL ADJUSTED ARE SIGNIFICANTLY GREATER THAN WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE THAT.

I WOULD ALSO SAY, I THINK THAT THE USE OF GUNS AND COMMITTING SUICIDE OR HOMICIDE IS PART OF THAT.

SO, I MEAN, I DON'T HAVE -- I WISH I WAS GOING TO USE A METAPHOR BUT I DON'T HAVE -- I CAN'T FORMULATE AT THIS POINT SORT OF WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE.

BUT IT, IN MY MIND, ALWAYS GOES BACK TO THE FAMILY OF ORIGIN AND THE COMMUNITY.

IF YOU HAVE A STRONG FAMILY AND STRONG COMMUNITY AND SUPPORT THE FAMILIES NEED TO THRIVE AND GROW, YOU HAVE HEALTHIER OUTCOMES FOR EVERYONE.

>> Gene: I HAVE GOT TO BRING POLITICS INTO THIS FOR A QUICK SECOND.

DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE FOR ATTORNEY GENERAL RAUL TORREZ, IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT, WON THE PRIMARY TO EXPAND USE OF RED FLAG LAWS, RUNNING AGAINST JEREMY GAY.

DO YOU SEE THIS BECOMING A FLASH POINT ISSUE IN THAT RACE?

COULD MR.

GAY MAKE SOMETHING OF MR. TORREZ' USE OF THE LAW OR NONUSE OF IT?

>> Tom: ABSOLUTELY.

YOU'RE LOOKING AT THE POLITICAL ARENA AS OPPOSED TO REALITY.

SO, FROM THE POLITICAL PERSPECTIVE, YEAH, YOU CAN MAKE HAY OUT OF JUST ABOUT ANYTHING AND I THINK THAT -- I DON'T HAVE PARTICULAR THOUGHTS ON THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S RACE AT THIS PARTICULAR POINT IN TIME, DESPITE THE ELECTION BEING TWO MONTHS AWAY, BUT, YOU KNOW, MR. JEREMY GAY COULD ACTUALLY MAKE A CASE ALONG THOSE LINES, AND I THINK HE WOULD PROBABLY HAVE A VERY STRONG CASE BY SAYING THAT POLICE OFFICERS HAVE WAY TOO MUCH ON THEIR PLATE RIGHT NOW.

DOES THIS RED FLAG LAW REALLY NEED TO REST ON THEIR SHOULDERS?

WE WERE TALKING EARLIER IN THE SHOW ABOUT ALBUQUERQUE PUBLIC SCHOOLS, YOU KNOW, BEING TOLD THEY HAVE TO BE ABLE TO MONITOR THE WILSON MIDDLE SCHOOL PARK BECAUSE OF LACK OF AVAILABLE POLICE OFFICERS.

SO, YOU KNOW, THAT IS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I THINK IS, WE NEED, AS MICHAEL AND CATHRYN HAVE SAID, WE NEED TO TAKE A MORE HOLISTIC APPROACH AS FAR AS HOW RED FLAG LAWS ARE ACTUALLY IMPLEMENTED BECAUSE IT IS THAT BEHAVIORAL HEALTH ISSUE AND I DON'T THINK WE ADDRESSED THAT.

WE HAVE ADDRESSED THE TACTIC OF SAYING, OKAY, LET'S TAKE SOMETHING AWAY THAT SOMEBODY COULD USE TO HURT THEMSELVES OR OTHERS.

>> Gene: THAT IS RIGHT.

CATHY WE HAVE JUST ABOUT A MINUTE HERE, BUT I WANT TO GET YOUR TAKE ON THIS.

THERE HAS BEEN SOME NEWLY APPROPRIATED FUNDING BEING USED TO CREATE A NEW VIOLENCE PREVENTION UNIT AT THE STATE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH.

EACH YEAR RECURRING FUNDS OF MORE THAN 10 MILLION WILL GO TOWARDS MUNIS AND TRIBAL GOVERNMENTS FOR A WIDER RANGE OF THINGS, LIKE GUN SAFETY, OUTREACH, COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT THAT IS MEANT TO PREVENT FUTURE GUN VIOLENCE.

NECESSARY STUFF CERTAINLY AND THE MONEY SOUNDS GOOD, BUT CAN THEY WORK BY THEMSELVES OR IS THERE SOMETHING MISSING HERE THAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO SEE INCLUDED AS WELL?

>> Cathryn: WE HAVE A PROBLEM THAT MONEY ALONE CANNOT SOLVE.

WE NEED THE MONEY BUT WE ALSO NEED TO TAKE THAT HOLISTIC APPROACH AND WHAT I'LL SAY, AND I GUESS MY ANSWER TO EVERY QUESTION YOU ASK ME COULD BE THAT, INSTEAD OF DOING THINGS THAT ARE TRANSACTIONAL AND DISCREET, WE NEED TO HAVE TRANSFORMATIVE APPROACHES AND WE NEED TO COMBINE AND UNDERSTAND THE NUANCES AND REALLY, AS MICHAEL WAS TALKING ABOUT, LOOK AT COMMUNITY ENVIRONMENT, LOOK AT WHAT GOT US TO THE PLACE THAT WE ARE AT WITH GUN VIOLENCE BEING OUT OF CONTROL.

>> Gene: THANKS AGAIN TO OUR LINE PANEL AS ALWAYS.

BE SURE TO LET US KNOW WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT ANY TOPICS THE LINE COVERED ON OUR FACEBOOK, TWITTER OR INSTAGRAM PAGES AND CATCH ANY EPISODES YOU MAY HAVE MISSED ON THE PBS VIDEO APP OR ROKU OR SMART TV.

AS YOU HEARD EARLIER IN THE PROGRAM, LOOKS LIKE SAFE OUTDOOR SPACES OR HOMELESS ENCAMPMENTS ARE BACK AFTER WEDNESDAY'S CITY COUNCIL VOTE WHERE COUNCILOR TRUDY JONES WHO HAS PREVIOUSLY VOTED FOR THE MORATORIUM CHANGED HER VOTE IN SUPPORT OF ENCAMPMENTS SAYING IT WAS THE RIGHT THING TO DO.

THE CITY APPROVED TWO APPLICATIONS AND SIX MORE ARE IN PROCESS.

NOW THIS VOTE CAME A WEEK AFTER THE SURVEY WE DISCUSSED EARLIER IN THE BROADCAST THAT SHOWS A STARK IMPATIENCE WITH HOW THE CITY IS HANDLING OUR HOMELESS SITUATION.

THIS IS AHEAD WHEN COUNCILOR BROOK BASSAN NOTED DURING A MEETING WHEN SHE SAID OF ENCAMPMENTS, PEOPLE IN THE CITY DON'T WANT THEM.

THE SURVEY NUMBERS BUTTRESSED COUNCILOR BASSAN BUT THE WORDS FROM THE REVEREND FROM THE FIRST UNITARIAN CHURCH ON CARLISLE MADE THE POINT OF THE NIGHT WHEN HE SAID ALBUQUERQUE NEEDS TO CHOOSE WHICH KIND OF ENCAMPMENTS WE WANT TO LIVE WITH OR NEXT DOOR BECAUSE ONE WAY OR THE OTHER, THERE ARE ENCAMPMENTS WHETHER WE WANT THEM OR NOT.

THAT IS A PRETTY COMPELLING ARGUMENT.

THERE ARE VERY FEW THINGS IN MUNICIPAL GOVERNMENT THAT PEOPLE ACTUALLY LIKE OR WANT AS MS. BASSAN PUTS IT, BUT I AM STARTING TO THINK OUR CHURCH LEADERS, WHO HAVE SHOWN TREMENDOUS LEADERSHIP ON THIS ISSUE, JUST MIGHT BE THE MIDDLE GROUND HERE.

GIVING THE WORKMAN WHO STILL HAS A CAR A SAFE PLACE OVERNIGHT MAY NOT BE WHAT PEOPLE WANT, BUT IF COUNCILOR BASSAN AND THE OTHERS WHO VOTED FOR THE MORATORIUM HAVE A BETTER IDEA BASED ON WHAT PEOPLE WANT, NOW WOULD BE THE TIME TO PRESENT IT.

THANKS AGAIN FOR JOINING US AND STAYING INFORMED AND ENGAGED.

SEE YOU AGAIN NEXT WEEK, IN FOCUS.

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