>>> STRIKE THREE FOR LEGISLATIVE DISTRICT MAP MAKERS.

CAPTIONS PROVIDED BY WOSU-TV, THE OHIO STATE UNIVERSITY ♪♪ JOINING US ON "COLUMBUS ON THE RECORD" THIS MORNING.

STATE HOUSE REPORTER FOR THE "USA TODAY" OHIO NETWORK.

DESIREE OF INNOVATION OHIO, AND MARK REEVER, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST.

FOR THE THIRD TIME A SPLIT OHIO SUPREME COURT HAS REJECTED THE OHIO REDISTRICTING COMMISSION'S MAPS FOR OHIO HOUSE AND SENATE DISTRICTS.

THE COURT'S MAJORITY OPINION SAID THE THIRD VERSIONS OF THE MAPS WERE FLAWED AND THE PROCESS WAS FLAWED.

EVEN THOUGH THE MAPS ON PAPER SPLIT DISTRICTS ROUGHLY 54% TO 46% IN FAVOR OF REPUBLICANS, ALL OF THE PROPOSED REPUBLICAN DISTRICTS WERE THOUGHT TO BE SAFE WHILE MANY DEMOCRATIC DISTRICTS WERE THOUGHT TO BE TOSS-UPS.

SO, THE COURT GAVE THE COMMISSION UNTIL MARCH 28th TO COME UP WITH A FOURTH VERSION.

IT SUGGESTS THE COMMISSION USE A TRULY INDEPENDENT MAP MAKER THIS TIME.

THE JUSTICES HAD SOME HARSH WORDS FOR THE COMMISSION AND EACH OTHER.

THE MAJORITY OPINION SAID THE COMMISSION LACKS POLITICAL WILL AND CALLED THE SITUATION SELF-CREATED CHAOS.

THE MINORITY OPINION SAID THE MAJORITY JUSTICES' DECISION IS AN EXERCISE IN RAW POLITICAL POWER.

ANOTHER SWING AND MISS FOR THE REDISTRICTING COMMISSION, AND NOW THEY WANT TO FIRE THE UMPIRE.

SOME REPUBLICANS ARE CALLING FOR THE IMPEACHMENT OF CHIEF JUSTICE MAUREEN O'CONNOR.

WHAT IS THEIR JUSTIFICATION?

>> WELL, IT'S NOT CLEAR TO US YET, BECAUSE THE CHARGES OF IMPEACHMENT HAVEN'T BEEN FILED.

IT'S SOMETHING THAT WOULD START OUT IN THE OHIO HOUSE AND THEN WOULD HAVE TO GO TO THE SENATE WHERE THEY WOULD HOLD A TRIAL AND CONVICT.

WHAT'S INTERESTING, THOUGH, IS THAT WE'RE HEARING THAT THE REPUBLICANS WHO ARE TALKING ABOUT THIS ARE ONLY TALKING ABOUT GOING AFTER MAUREEN O'CONNOR, A FELLOW REPUBLICAN, AND THEY HAVEN'T MENTIONED BRINGING CHARGES AGAINST THE DEMOCRATS, WHO ALSO RULED AGAINST THE MAPS, THE CONGRESSIONAL LEGISLATIVE MAPS, ALL THE DIFFERENT ITERATIONS OF THOSE.

>> MARK REEVER, GOVERNOR DeWINE QUICKLY DENOUNCED THIS MOVE, SAYING YOU CAN'T, YOU KNOW, GET RID OF A JUDGE BECAUSE YOU DON'T LIKE A RULING.

DO YOU THINK THIS IS A -- IS A DANGEROUS WAY TO GO, SHOULD IT GAIN ANY TRACTION?

>> YOU KNOW, THESE ARE TWO COEQUAL BRANCHES, EACH OF WHOM HAS POWERS.

FOR EXAMPLE, THE SUPREME COURT HAS THE POWER OF CONTEMPT.

IT SHOULD BE RARELY USED, BUT THEY USED IT IN THIS CASE.

THE LEGISLATIVE BRANCH HAS THE POWER TO IMPEACH.

THE NOTION THAT SOMEHOW THIS IS OUTSIDE THE RULE OF LAW IS FALSE.

IT'S ONE OF THE POWERS.

WHETHER EITHER SIDE SHOULD USE SUCH EXTREME MEASURES IS UP FOR DEBATE.

BUT IT'S SOMETHING THE LEGISLATURE DOES HAVE THE POWER TO DO.

>> DO YOU THINK THEY SHOULD IMPEACH THE CHIEF JUSTICE FOR THIS, MARK?

>> YEAH, RIGHT NOW, I WOULD HAVE TO SEE THE CASE.

THERE WAS ARGUABLY A BETTER ARGUMENT WHEN THERE WAS AN ORDER FOR MEMBERS OF OTHER BRANCHES TO APPEAR AT CERTAIN TIMES IN FRONT OF THE JUDICIAL BRANCH.

I'D HAVE TO SEE WHAT THE ALLEGATIONS ARE.

I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE IT'S CLEAR THAT NOBODY WOULD SUGGEST THAT SOMEHOW THIS IS OUTSIDE THE RULE OF LAW.

THE RULE OF LAW SPECIFICALLY THE >> BIPARTISAN MAP MAKER GROUP, REPUBLICAN MAP MAKERS, DEMOCRATIC MAP MAKERS GET INTO A ROOM AND FIGURE THIS OUT.

WOULD THAT WORK?

DO YOU THINK THAT WOULD WORK, DESIREE?

>> THE GOVERNOR KNOWS THEY HAVE HAD SEVERAL MONTHS TO COME TOGETHER ON BOTH SIDES.

IT'S NOT LIKE THE COMMISSION IS 100% REPUBLICAN.

IT IS A BIPARTISAN COMMISSION.

IT'S JUST THAT REPUBLICANS HAVE EXCLUDED THE DEMOCRATS ON THE COMMISSION, WEEK AFTER WEEK, MONTH AFTER MONTH, IN THE MAP-MAKING PROCESS, AND THEN WHAT THEY GET AND WHAT THEY PRESENT ARE THESE MAPS AND NO ONE LIKES THEM.

SO THEY HAVE BEEN BEFORE THE COURT MULTIPLE TIMES, AND IF ANYONE IS IN THE RIGHT TO HOLD SOMEONE IN CONTEMPT, IT IS THE JUDICIARY, AND I THINK THAT'S PROBABLY WHAT SHOULD HAPPEN, GIVEN THEIR WILLINGNESS TO DEFY THE COURT'S ORDERS.

>> LAURA, THE STATE SUPREME COURT CANNOT -- INSTITUTION DRAW ITSELF A NEW MAP FOR STATE LEGISLATIVE DISTRICTS.

SOME ARGUE THAT THEY COULD TAKE ONE OF THE OTHER MAPS THAT'S BEEN PRESENTED AND MAKE THAT THE MAP.

WE DON'T KNOW IF THAT WOULD HOLD UP IN COURT OR NOT.

BUT WHERE DOES THIS GO FROM HERE?

THE RHETORIC JUST SEEMS TO BE GETTING MORE AND MORE HEATED.

>> WELL, THAT'S THE BIG QUESTION.

I THINK THAT THE MAY 3rd PRIMARY IS A HOT MESS RIGHT NOW.

THE MILITARY AND OVERSEAS BALLOTS WERE SUPPOSED TO BE MAILED OUT TODAY.

THEY DON'T HAVE VALID MAPS FOR THE LEGISLATIVE AND CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICTS, AND SO THE LEGISLATURE IS THE ONLY ENTITY THAT CAN CHANGE THE DATE OF A PRIMARY, SO IT WILL BE INTERESTING NEXT WEEK TO SEE IF LAWMAKERS DECIDE TO MOVE THE DATE, IF THEY DECIDE TO HAVE A -- HAVE TWO PRIMARIES, ONE FOR, YOU KNOW, LIKE SCHOOL LEVIES AND STATEWIDE RACES WOULD GO ON THE MAY 3rd BALLOT AND THEN HOLD ANOTHER PRIMARY FOR THE ONES WHERE DISTRICT MAPS ARE REQUIRED.

THE LAWMAKERS, THE PEOPLE IN THE REDISTRICTING COMMISSION COULD KEEP PLAYING THIS GAME OF CHICKEN WHERE THEY WAIT UNTIL THE LAST SECOND.

SO, I REALLY DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN, AND REALLY KIND OF ARE IN UNCHARTED TERRITORY.

>> MARK, DO YOU AGREE THAT THE COURT HAS OVERSTEPPED ITS AUTHORITY HERE AND IS -- AND IT IS EXERCISING TOO MUCH POWER?

THIS IS A POWER GRAB ON THE PART OF DEMOCRATS AND THE CHIEF JUSTICE?

OR IS THIS PART OF THE PROCESS THAT VOTERS APPROVED AND THIS IS BECAUSE THEY DON'T -- THEY DON'T -- IT HASN'T MET WHAT THEY THINK IS THE LETTER OF THE CONSTITUTIONAL LAW, THAT THIS IS WHERE WE'RE AT RIGHT NOW?

>> I THINK EACH SIDE IS PLAYING ITS OWN PART.

LET'S BE CLEAR.

THE VOTERS PUT REPUBLICANS IN CHARGE OF THIS PROCESS.

THEY MADE THAT DECISION TO GIVE REPUBLICANS MAJORITIES IN BOTH HOUSES.

WHAT'S INTERESTING IS THE DEMOCRATS WHO ARE SCREAMING ABOUT FAIR REPRESENTATION IN THE STATE OF OHIO HAVE SAID NOTHING ABOUT THE CITY OF COLUMBUS, WHERE THERE ARE ZERO REPUBLICAN CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS, INCLUDING WHEN THERE'S OPENINGS THAT COULD BE APPOINTED IN, SO THERE IS ZERO PERCENT REPRESENTATION FOR REPUBLICANS IN THE CITY OF COLUMBUS WHERE TENS OR HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF REPUBLICANS LIVE.

THIS IS A PARTISAN PROCESS.

DEMOCRATS WANT MORE POWER.

REPUBLICANS WANT TO HOLD ON TO THEIR POWER.

IT'S HAPPENING IN EVERY STATE IN THE COUNTRY.

>> DESIREE, NEW YORK IS THE POLAR OPPOSITE OF OHIO.

IT'S THE DEMOCRATS ARE MAKING MAPS THAT ARE VERY MUCH OUT OF LINE WITH HOW THAT STATE VOTES.

IS THERE A BETTER WAY?

WILL WE GET A BETTER WAY OUT OF THIS, SHALL WE CALL IT, CHAOS?

>> I THINK IT'S SO IMPORTANT TO POINT OUT THAT OHIOANS VOTED FOR A FAIR PROCESS TO THE TUNE OF 70%.

AND SO 70% OF OHIOANS WANTED A FAIR, TRANSPARENT PROCESS WHEN IT COMES TO REDISTRICTING AND DRAWING MAPS.

NOT ONLY HAS THE REPUBLICAN PARTY DEFIED THE WILL OF OHIO VOTERS, THEY'VE ALSO DEFIED COURT ORDERS.

SO, WE ARE IN UNPRECEDENTED TIMES BECAUSE WHO WOULD HAVE IMAGINED IF THE VOTERS PUT SOMETHING ON THE BALLOT AND WE CHANGE THE CONSTITUTION, THAT REPUBLICAN LAWMAKERS WOULD STILL -- THAT THEY ARE BEYOND AND ABOVE THE LAW TO DISCARD IT AND DISOBEY IT.

WE HAVE TO FOLLOW THE LAW, LAW AND ORDER, AND THE REPUBLICANS SHOULD BELIEVE IN THAT TOO.

AS I HAVE SAID, THIS IS NOT THE WILD, WILD WEST.

IT'S THE MIDWEST.

IT'S OHIO.

WE BELIEVE IN LAW AND ORDER.

HOPEFULLY THE REPUBLICANS WILL COME ON BOARD AND LISTEN TO THE WILL OF OHIO VOTERS.

>> ARE THEY DISOBEYING THE LAW OR JUST MAKING A DIFFERENT CASE THAN WHAT THE DEMOCRATS ARE MAKING?

>> I THINK THEY ARE WILLFULLY NEGLECTING AND DISOBEYING THE LAW.

THE SUPREME COURT HAS ISSUED THE ORDER TIME AND TIME AGAIN, HEY, THESE MAPS ARE RIGGED, THEY'RE NOT FAIR, YOU'RE EXCLUDING PEOPLE FROM HAVING ACCESS TO THE BALLOT AND BEING ABLE TO PICK THEIR POLITICIANS.

WHAT WE HAVE IS A GROUP OF REPUBLICANS TRYING TO PICK THEIR VOTERS, AND SO AFTER THREE TIMES, THE COURT HAS SAID, ENOUGH, ALREADY.

AND YET WE HAVE REPUBLICANS WHO HAVE NOW GATHERED IN A ROOM AND SAID, YOU KNOW WHAT?

WE'LL JUST IMPEACH THEM TO GET OUR WAY.

IT'S OUR WAY OR NO WAY, AND THAT IS UNDEMOCRATIC.

IN FACT, THAT'S FROM, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE PUTIN RUSSIAN PLAYBOOKS AND THAT'S NOT HOW WE OPERATE HERE IN THE STATE OF OHIO.

>> MARK REEVER, HOW DO YOU THINK THIS ENDS?

>> I THINK IT WAS ON THIS SHOW A FEW MONTHS AGO I PREDICTED THIS WOULD END THE WAY THE SCHOOL FUNDING SITUATION ENDED, WHICH WAS BACK AND FORTH BETWEEN COEQUAL BRANCHES UNTIL THE SUPREME COURT COULD DO NO MORE AND THE POWER OF THE PEOPLE TO GOVERN THIS PROCESS IS THROUGH THE LEGISLATURE.

AND THIS YEAR, THEY HAVE A CHANCE TO RE-ELECT AN ENTIRE NEW HOUSE AND HALF OF THE SENATE.

THE PEOPLE SPOKE.

THEY PUT THE REPUBLICANS IN CHARGE OF THE LEGISLATIVE BRANCH.

THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE A CHANCE TO THROW OUT PEOPLE IF THEY WANT TO.

NO ONE HAS BEEN DENIED ACCESS TO THE BALLOT.

THAT'S, OF COURSE, RIDICULOUS.

THIS IS A PARTISAN CHALLENGE BETWEEN TWO PARTIES, EACH OF WHOM IS TRYING TO HOLD ON TO POWER.

>> BUT WOULD YOU AGREE IT'S -- YOU CAN DRAW THE MAPS TO GIVE ONE PARTY AN ADVANTAGE TO HOLD ON TO POWER, THOUGH?

>> OH, I THINK EVERY PARTY THAT WANTS TO DRAW MAPS IN ITS OWN FAVOR, AND WHEN YOU LOOK AT WHAT THE DEMOCRATS DREW, THEY DREW LINES IN THEIR OWN INTERESTS, SO IT'S HARD TO GET POLITICS OUT OF THE POLITICAL PROCESS.

THIS IS, BY ITS NATURE, A POLITICAL PROCESS.

>> YEAH.

ALL OF THIS UNCERTAINTY DOES NOT MAKE RUNNING A CAMPAIGN ANY EASIER.

ON THE REPUBLICAN SIDE, IN THE RACE FOR GOVERNOR, JIM HAS JOINED GOVERNOR DeWINE IN DECLINING A CHANCE TO DEBATE LATER THIS MONTH.

WHILE HE WON'T FACE JOE BLYSTONE ON THE STAGE, HE IS STEPPING UP HIS CRITICISM OF THE PERSON WHO LEADS HIM IN A POLL.

BUSINESS TIES TO RUSSIA APPEAR AS AN ISSUE AND MIKE GIBBONS VISITS DONALD TRUMP LOOKING FOR THE FORMER PRESIDENT'S ENDORSEMENT.

>> IN YOUR QUESTION THERE, A POLL SHOWED THAT OF THE TWO NON-DeWINE CANDIDATES, BLYSTONE IS AHEAD.

THAT'S EMBARRASSING.

THAT HAD PEOPLE ALL AROUND CAPITOL SQUARE DISCUSSING HOW BAD HE IS DOING.

I DON'T THINK EITHER OF THEM'S GOING TO WIN.

I THINK MIKE DeWINE IS GOING TO WIN THE PRIMARY AND THE GENERAL.

BUT BLYSTONE IS ACTUALLY BETTER POSITIONED.

HE MIGHT BE ABLE TO GIVE MIKE DeWINE A CLOSER RACE, BUT THERE HASN'T BEEN A PARTICULARLY GOOD CAMPAIGN AND MISSING OUT ON OPPORTUNITY TO GET A LITTLE MORE PROFILE SEEMS TO ME LIKE A MISTAKE.

>> THAT INDEPENDENT POLL THAT WAS OUT BY FOX NEWS LAST WEEK HAD MIKE DeWINE AT 50%, WHICH I THINK THAT NUMBER ALONE SURPRISED A LOT OF FOLKS.

PLEASANTLY SURPRISED THE DeWINE CAMPAIGN, I'M SURE.

LAURA, WHAT IS THE PATH TO VICTORY FOR ANY OF THOSE CANDIDATES CHALLENGING MIKE DeWINE?

>> WELL, I THINK IT'S A ROUGH PATH, LIKE MARK SAID.

I THINK GOVERNOR DeWINE IS PRETTY WELL POSITIONED TO WIN THE PRIMARY.

I DO THINK THAT BLYSTONE AND RENACCI BEING IN THE PRIMARY HELPS WHIP THE ANTI-DeWINE VOTE, WHICH IS PRETTY SIGNIFICANT.

I DON'T KNOW THAT IT RISES TO 50%.

SO, I THINK IF BOTH OF THEM STAY IN, IF JOE OR JIM STAY IN, THAT'S BETTER FOR GOVERNOR DeWINE.

>> TURNING TO THE U.S. SENATE RACE, MIKE GIBBONS WAS TO MEET WITH PRESIDENT TRUMP THIS WEEK DOWN IN MAR-A-LAGO AND SEEK THE PRESIDENT'S -- THE FORMER PRESIDENT'S ENDORSEMENT, AND DEMOCRATS STARTED CRITICIZING MIKE GIBBONS THIS WEEK, YOU KNOW, POINTING OUT ALL THE TIMES THAT GIBBONS HAD SAID LESS THAN FLATTERING THINGS ABOUT DONALD TRUMP.

DESIREE, ARE DEMOCRATS WORRIED ABOUT MIKE GIBBONS?

>> DEMOCRATS ARE NOT WORRIED ABOUT MIKE GIBBONS.

WE'VE CERTAINLY SEEN THE RACIST TV ADS AND THE DOG WHISTLE POLITICS HE'S LAUNCHED IN HIS CAMPAIGN, AND NOW HE'S EARNED HIMSELF A TICKET DOWN TO MAR-A-LAGO FOR DONALD TRUMP.

WHAT WE CONTINUE TO SEE FROM THE REPUBLICAN CANDIDATES IS THEIR WILL TO BEND TOWARDS THE RIGHT AS FAR AS THEY CAN GO, AND SO THEY'RE GETTING EXTREME AND MORE EXTREME BY THE DAY, AND SO WE LOOK FORWARD TO POPPING OUR POPCORN AND WATCHING THE REPUBLICAN CANDIDATES TEAR THEMSELVES APART.

>> SO, YOU'RE NOT -- YOU DON'T THINK DEMOCRATS ARE TRYING TO WEIGH IN HERE AND TRY TO CRITICIZE MIKE GIBBONS, PERHAPS GIVE JOSH MANDEL AN ADVANTAGE, TRYING TO PICK WHICH CANDIDATE THEY WANT TO FACE SHOULD TIM RYAN WIN THE NOMINATION ON THE DEMOCRATIC SIDE?

>> I DON'T THINK ANY OTHER REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE FOR SENATE CAN HOLD A FIRE TO CONGRESSMAN TIM RYAN OR ANY OF THE DEMOCRATS RUNNING FOR SENATE, BECAUSE THE DEMOCRATS STAND FOR WORKING PEOPLE, AND THE REPUBLICAN CANDIDATES STAND FOR DONALD TRUMP, AND SO REGARDLESS OF WHO THE REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE OR ULTIMATE NOMINEE WILL BE, THEY WILL BE FAR-RIGHT, FAR EXTREME, LEANING INTO DONALD TRUMPISM, AND SO THAT'S NOT GOING TO WORK FOR THE AVERAGE VOTER HERE IN OHIO.

>> MARK REEVER, POLITICO REPORTS THAT DONALD TRUMP STILL SAYS HE'D LIKE TO ENDORSE IN THIS RACE, BUT THE RACE IS REALLY TIGHT AND MOST PEOPLE THINK HE'S NOT GOING TO PICK SOMEONE UNLESS HE KNOWS THEY CAN WIN.

DO YOU SEE HIM JUMPING IN, IN THE NEXT MONTH, TWO MONTHS, THREE MONTHS, WHENEVER WE HOLD THE PRIMARY?

>> THAT'S THE KEY QUESTION.

THE MORE TIME TO THE PRIMARY, THE MORE TIME TO MAKE A DECISION.

WE'RE IN A REPUBLICAN STATE.

DONALD TRUMP WON THIS STATE BY EIGHT POINTS TWICE.

WORKING PEOPLE OVERWHELMINGLY SUPPORTED DONALD TRUMP.

THE REPUBLICAN BASE SUPPORTS DONALD TRUMP.

IT'S NO SURPRISE THAT THESE CANDIDATES WOULD LIKE TO EARN HIS ENDORSEMENT.

I DON'T KNOW THAT HE WILL ENDORSE.

I DON'T KNOW THAT HE KNOWS WHETHER HE WILL ENDORSE.

BUT IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE MORGAN HARPER AND WHETHER OR NOT THE DEMOCRATS WILL GIVE HER A FAIR SHAKE TO KIND OF SHUNT HER OFF TO THE SIDE AND TRY TO GIVE THE CORONATION TO TIM RYAN REALLY IS, I THINK, NOT FAIR TO MORGAN HARPER, WHO'S BEEN A GUEST ON THIS PROGRAM, AND HAS RUN A PRETTY ISSUE-ORIENTED CAMPAIGN, BUT THE DEMOCRATS HAVE BEEN IGNORING HER.

I THINK THAT'S WRONG.

>> WE'LL GET TO THE DEMOCRATS IN A MOMENT, BUT LAURA, ONE MORE QUESTION ON THE REPUBLICAN SIDE.

THE ASSOCIATED PRESS THIS WEEK REPORTED THAT JUST ABOUT EVERY REPUBLICAN, EVEN IF YOU -- TIM RYAN TO SOME DEGREE, HAVE TIES -- INTERESTS IN RUSSIA IN SOME DEGREE OR OTHER, SOME ARE CLOSE TIES, SOME ARE DETACHED TIES.

THIS IS A BIGGER ISSUE IN OHIO BECAUSE THERE IS A SIZABLE UKRAINIAN AMERICAN POPULATION HERE.

SO, IT RESONATES A BIT MORE.

>> WELL, SURE.

AND YOU SEE THAT THERE'S A LOT OF PRESSURE TO PULL OUT OF RUSSIAN INVESTMENTS.

WE SAW THAT WITH THE CALL FOR THE PUBLIC PENSION SYSTEMS TO DO SO.

I THINK THAT'S KIND OF GOOD POLITICS RIGHT NOW.

IT MAKES SENSE.

ALTHOUGH, YOU KNOW, TRYING TO SELL YOUR RUSSIAN ASSETS AT THIS POINT, GOOD LUCK WITH THAT BECAUSE THE MARKETS ARE ESSENTIALLY CLOSED.

I THINK THAT THERE ARE SO MANY PEOPLE IN THE REPUBLICAN PRIMARY THAT ARE SELF-FUNDING AND VERY, VERY WEALTHY PEOPLE WITH DEEP BUSINESS TIES THAT THIS IS -- COULD BE AN ONGOING ISSUE.

>> YEAH, ALL OF THE CANDIDATES, ALL THE REPUBLICAN CANDIDATES STRONGLY SUPPORT UKRAINE AND THEN DENY THAT THEIR TIES TO THE RUSSIA ARE SUPPORT OF VLADIMIR PUTIN.

WITH THE REPUBLICAN CANDIDATES ATTACKING EACH OTHER, AND REDISTRICTING DOMINATING NEWS COVERAGE, DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATES ARE TRYING TO BREAK THROUGH.

THE LIKELY MOST COMPETITIVE PRIMARY RACE IS FOR GOVERNOR, BOTH FORMER CINCINNATI MAYOR JOHN KRANLY AND FORMER DAYTON MAYOR NAN WHALEY ROLLED OUT THEIR ADS AND TIM RYAN SAYS HE WANTS TO FINANCIALLY SUPPORT DEMOCRATS ON THE TICKET.

DESIREE, WE ARE TWO WEEKS, GIVE OR TAKE, FROM THE START OF EARLY VOTING IF THE PRIMARY HAPPENS IN MAY.

THAT'S KIND OF LATE TO BE RUNNING YOUR FIRST INTRODUCTORY ADS, IS IT NOT, FOR THOSE DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATES FOR GOVERNOR?

>> I DON'T THINK IT'S TOO LATE TO RUN TV ADS BECAUSE I KNOW WE'RE ALL WATCHING AND POLITICAL NERDS HERE BUT THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE ACROSS THE STATE AREN'T PAYING ATTENTION TO ELECTIONS YET AND PEOPLE TYPICALLY DON'T REALLY LEAN IN UNTIL LATE SUMMER, EARLY FALL SO I THINK THIS IS A GOOD TIME FOR THE CANDIDATES TO INTRODUCE THEMSELVES TO THE PUBLIC, TO BUILD THEIR NAME.

I THINK THE TIMING IS PRETTY GOOD BECAUSE MAY 3rd PRIMARY IS PROBABLY NOT GOING TO HAPPEN OR UNLIKELY.

HOPEFULLY WE ONLY HAVE ONE PRIMARY AND NOT TWO, BUT EITHER WAY, I THINK IT'S A GOOD TIME TO INTRODUCE THEMSELVES TO THE VOTERS ACROSS THE STATE.

>> MARK, IF YOU LOOK AT THE ADS, WE'RE NOT GOING TO SHOW THEM HERE, BUT YOU KNOW, CRANLEY IN HIS AD REALLY TOUTS HIS WORK ON THE INNOCENCE PROJECT, WHICH HELPED FREE WRONGFULLY CONVICTED FOLKS.

NAN WHALEY STRESSES HER MIDDLE CLASS BACKGROUND AND REALLY STRESSES MANUFACTURING JOBS.

AS AN UNBIASED POLITICAL ANALYST, WHAT DO YOU THINK THE CAMPAIGN STRATEGY IS AND WHICH VOTERS ARE THEY GOING FOR IN THESE ADS?

>> WELL, DEMOCRAT PRIMARIES ARE DOMINATED BY THE FAR-LEFT OF THE PARTY, PEOPLE WELL OUT OF STEP WITH THE MAINSTREAM OF OHIO AND THAT'S WHY YOU SEE CANDIDATES PANDERING TO THAT FAR LEFT.

NEITHER OF THESE CANDIDATES IS PARTICULARLY WELL KNOWN.

THEY'RE JUST BARELY KNOWN AND LIKED IN THEIR RESPECTIVE CITIES SO THEY'VE GOT A HEAVY LIFT JUST TO GET KNOWN STATEWIDE, MUCH LESS MAKE THEIR CASE IN A VERY SHORT PERIOD OF TIME WITHOUT A WHOLE LOT OF MONEY.

IT'S NOT A GREAT TIME TO BE A DEMOCRAT RUNNING FOR GOVERNOR.

>> LAURA, CANDIDATES ALWAYS TRY TO TIME WHERE THEY -- WHEN THEY SPEND THEIR AD MONEY FOR THE PRIMARY.

IT HAS TO BE REALLY HARD NOW BECAUSE WE DON'T KNOW WHEN THE PRIMARY IS GOING TO BE.

MAY IS LOOKING LESS AND LESS LIKELY.

DO YOU THINK THAT WAS A REASON WHY THESE ADS CAME OUT SO LATE, AND WILL IT MATTER IN THE END, LIKE DESIREE SAID?

>> WELL, I THINK -- I DO THINK IT'S A BIG FACTOR AS TO WHY IT WENT UP ON TV LATE.

BUT AT THE SAME TIME, I AGREE WITH DESIREE.

I DON'T THINK THAT MANY PEOPLE ARE REALLY DIALED INTO THIS JUST YET.

AND YOU KNOW, THEY HAVE LIMITED RESOURCES, SO THEY HAVE TO BE VERY JUDICIOUS IN HOW THEY SPEND THOSE.

>> IT WAS A STORY IN THE DISPATCH THIS WEEK.

I THINK YOU WROTE IT OR CONTRIBUTED TO IT, SHOWING SOME FRIENDLY TEXTS BETWEEN THOSE TWO MAYORS, SOME OF THEM A LITTLE OFF COLOR.

BREAKING NEWS, THEY TALK TRASH ABOUT THE REPUBLICAN OPPONENTS.

BUT DO YOU THINK THAT WE'LL SEE -- SEE THIS THING GO NEGATIVE?

THIS CAMPAIGN FOR GOVERNOR GO NEGATIVE, DO YOU THINK, BASED ON THEIR RELATIONSHIP PRIOR TO THIS CAMPAIGN?

>> YOU KNOW, YET TO BE DETERMINED.

WHAT'S INTERESTING IS JESSE BARBER, MY COLLEAGUE, SHE ASKED FOR TEXT MESSAGES BETWEEN CRANLEY AND WHALEY BECAUSE THEY HAVE BEEN LONG-TIME FRIENDS AND THEY COFOUNDED THE OHIO MAYORS ALLIANCE AND JUST TO SEE HOW THEIR RELATIONSHIP CHANGED OR WHATEVER.

I REALLY ENJOYED THAT READ.

I THOUGHT IT WAS REALLY INTERESTING, ABOUT HOW THE BIG-CITY MAYORS HAVE BEEN TALKING AND CHATTING ON TEXT AMONGST THEMSELVES ABOUT POLICY ISSUES LIKE GUN POLICY, COVID, MASK POLICIES, AND THEN ALSO SOME TRASH TALKING AND POLITICS AS WELL.

>> LITTLE PEEK BEHIND THE CURTAIN THERE, WHICH IS INTERESTING, ALSO A LESSON TO POLITICIANS, DON'T PUT ANYTHING IN WRITING.

TIM RYAN IS PLEDGING TO RAISE, CONTRIBUTE $3 MILLION TO DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATES.

HE'S LOOKING PAST THE PRIMARY.

HE'S HEAVILY FAVORED, BUT IS THAT A WISE MOVE?

ESPECIALLY IF YOU WANT MORGAN HARPER'S VOTERS TO SUPPORT YOU IN NOVEMBER?

>> I THINK IT'S A GREAT MOVE, BECAUSE IT'S SHOWING THAT HE SUPPORTS THE ENTIRE PARTY.

I THINK HIS OFFER TO SUPPORT OTHER DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATES ISN'T QUITE A THREAT TO MORGAN HARPER.

MORGAN HARPER CERTAINLY HAS SUPPORT AROUND THE STATE AS WELL AND HE'LL NEED TO COURT THOSE VOTERS AND BRING THEM INTO THE FOLD.

THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY IS A BIG TENT PARTY.

I'M REALLY THRILLED AND EXCITED TO HEAR ABOUT HOW MANY REPUBLICANS ARE FASCINATED WITH MORGAN HARPER.

I HOPE THEY WILL ADOPT HER PLATFORM IN THEIR POLICY AGENDA, WHICH IS THE EXACT OPPOSITE OF WHAT THEY'VE BEEN PUSHING.

BUT I THINK WHAT TIM RYAN IS DOING, HE'S OFFERING AN OLIVE BRANCH TO EVERYONE ACROSS THE STATE WHO NEEDS HELP RAISING MONEY RIGHT NOW, BECAUSE IT'S REALLY HARD WITH THE ECONOMY, WITH THE HIGH COST OF LIVING, AND JUST PEOPLE ARE REALLY TIRED OF DONATING TO POLITICAL CANDIDATES, SO IF YOU HAVE A CANDIDATE THAT YOU SUPPORT, PLEASE DONATE $5 OR $10 TO HELP THEM GET THEIR MESSAGE OUT.

>> ALL RIGHT.

OUR FINAL TOPIC, GOVERNOR DeWINE THIS WEEK TRIED TO PLEASE BOTH GUN RIGHTS ACTIVISTS AND THOSE WHO WANT TIGHTER GUN LAWS.

DeWINE SIGNED INTO LAW THE CONCEALED CARRY LAW.

IT ELIMINATES THE SPECIAL PERMIT AND TRAINING REQUIREMENTS FOR LAWFUL GUN OWNERS TO CARRY A HIDDEN GUN, BUT THE GOVERNOR ALSO PROMISED TO CONTINUE TO PRESS FOR SOME OF THE GUN LAW CHANGES HE PROPOSED TWO AND A HALF YEARS AGO.

>> HALF THE STATES NOW HAVE THIS PROVISION.

AND THIS IS CONSISTENT WITH THE UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION.

WE'RE STILL ASKING THE STATE LEGISLATURE TO TAKE ACTION ON A BILL WHICH I THINK IS A, FRANKLY, A NO BRAINER, AND THAT SIMPLY IS, IT SAYS THAT VIOLENT REPEAT OFFENDERS WHO COMMIT MOST OF THE VIOLENT CRIMES TODAY, IF THEY'RE IN POSSESSION OF A GUN, JUDGE SHOULD HAVE THE ABILITY TO PUT THEM AWAY FOR AT LEAST TEN YEARS.

>> LAURA, GIVE THE GOVERNOR CREDIT FOR ANSWERING QUESTIONS ON THIS CONTENTIOUS ISSUE.

HE'S TRYING TO PLAY RIGHT DOWN THE MIDDLE, THOUGH.

>> YEAH, I'M NOT SURPRISED THAT THE GOVERNOR'S ANSWERING QUESTIONS, CONSIDERING HE'S HAD A LONG HISTORY OF BEING PRETTY ACCESSIBLE TO THE PRESS.

THIS IS SOMETHING THAT HAS BEEN ON THE WISH LIST FOR GUN RIGHTS PEOPLE FOR, YOU KNOW, MORE THAN 20 YEARS.

BACK IN THE MID TO LATE '90s, IT WAS INTRODUCED -- I THINK THEY CALLED IT VERMONT STYLE PERMITLESS CARRY BECAUSE VERMONT, I THINK, WAS ONE OF THE FEW STATES THAT ACTUALLY HAD IT.

AND NOW, YOU KNOW, A LOT MORE STATES HAVE IT.

AND YOU KNOW, GOVERNOR DeWINE, HIS STRONG OHIO PACKAGE FOLLOWING THE DAYTON SHOOTING WHICH OCCURRED IN AUGUST OF 2019 WAS A LOT MORE ROBUST THAN JUST GOING AFTER REPEAT OFFENDERS WHO HAVE GUNS IN THEIR HANDS.

AND I THINK THAT THE CHANCES OF PASSING ANYTHING RESEMBLING A RED FLAG LAW OR BACKGROUND CHECKS ARE PRETTY MINIMAL GIVEN THAT THE POSITION OF THE OHIO GENERAL ASSEMBLY RIGHT NOW.

>> MARK, HOW DOES THIS PLAY OUT?

DOES HIM SIGNING THIS CONCEALED CARRY LAW SATISFY THE STRONG GUN RIGHTS ACTIVISTS AND BY PROMISING TO CONTINUE TO WORK EVEN FOR MODEST PROPOSALS, DOES THAT ELIMINATE SOME OF THE CRITICISM THAT HE IS NOT DOING SOMETHING TO STOP GUN VIOLENCE?

>> YEAH, I THINK -- I THINK IT DOES.

HE IS DOING SOMETHING.

HE'S PUTTING IN THE HANDS OF GOOD GUYS GUNS THAT COULD STOP A MASS SHOOTER AND ALLOWING PARTICULARLY VULNERABLE PEOPLE TO DEFEND THEMSELVES.

THIS IS REALLY NOT SO MUCH ABOUT THE SECOND AMENDMENT TO THE U.S. CONSTITUTION.

IT'S ABOUT ARTICLE I, SECTION 4 OF THE OHIO CONSTITUTION, WHICH ALL THOSE LEGISLATORS SWORE TO UPHOLD, WHICH SAYS THAT THE PEOPLE HAVE A RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS IN DEFENSE OF THEMSELVES.

EVERY OHIO LAWMAKER SWORE TO UPHOLD THAT CONSTITUTION, AND BY PASSING THAT, THEY'RE CONSISTENT WITH THE RIGHTS OUTLINED IN THE STATE CONSTITUTION.

>> DESIREE, REPUBLICANS REALLY COME OUT FOR THIS ISSUE.

NAN WHALEY, SHOULD SHE GET THE NOMINATION FOR GOVERNOR AND RUN AGAINST MIKE DeWINE, WHO IS THE FAVORITE IN THE REPUBLICAN SIDE, SHE COULD POINT TO THIS.

SHE WAS THE MAYOR OF DAYTON WHEN THE SHOOTING HAPPENED IN 2019, BUT WILL DEMOCRATS COME OUT AND VOTE FOR THIS ISSUE ALONE?

>> I WAS WITH MY FRIENDS AND FAMILY AND NEIGHBORS IN THE OREGON DISTRICT AFTER THE MASS SHOOTING THAT OCCURRED, AND WE YELLED, DO SOMETHING.

AND GOVERNOR DeWINE SAID THAT HE WOULD DO SOMETHING.

BUT WHAT HE ACTUALLY DID, INSTEAD OF DOING SOMETHING FOR THE PEOPLE OF DAYTON AND THE PEOPLE AROUND THIS STATE WHO DON'T FEEL SAFE, WHO SUPPORT BACKGROUND CHECKS, IS HE LISTENED TO THE FAR EXTREMISTS IN HIS PARTY AND ACCEPTED MONEY AND THE POLITICAL ASTUTENESS THAT COMES WITH THE NRA AND LISTENED TO THEM AND DECIDED TO PASS THIS PERMITLESS CARRY BILL.

THIS IS NOT ALIGNED WITH THE VALUES OF OHIOANS.

IT'S NOT GOOD.

LAW ENFORCEMENT DOESN'T SUPPORT IT.

AND IT'S GOING TO HAVE POLITICAL BLOWBACK FOR GOVERNOR DeWINE AND ALL THE PEOPLE WHO SUPPORT THIS BILL.

IT IS BAD POLITICS.

IT'S BAD POLICY.

AND IT'S BAD FOR OHIO.

>> ALL RIGHT.

TIME NOW FOR OUR FINAL OFF THE RECORD PARTING SHOTS, AND MARK, WE WILL START WITH YOU.

>> EARLIER IN THE SHOW, WE TALKED ABOUT A STORY ALLEGEDLY LINKING SOME CANDIDATES TO RUSSIA.

ONE OF THOSE ALLEGED LINKS WAS THAT THE CANDIDATE HAD A RUMBLE ACCOUNT, WHICH IS A YOUTUBE-TYPE ACCOUNT, THAT RUSSIA ALSO HAS A YOUTUBE ACCOUNT.

WELL, I WOULD LIKE THE VIEWERS TO KNOW THAT ALL OF US ON YOUR PANEL HAVE TWITTER ACCOUNTS, SO DOES COMMUNIST CHINA, SO YOUR HUMBLE PANEL TODAY, ALL OF US ARE CHINA-LINKED AS WELL AS THOSE CANDIDATES WHO ALLEGEDLY ARE RUSSIA LINKED.

>> ALL RIGHT.

DESIREE, YOU'RE UP NEXT.

>> GOVERNOR DeWINE WILL GIVE HIS STATE OF THE STATE ADDRESS AND I'M SURE HE'LL MAKE A LOT OF CLAIMS, BUT THE TRUTH IS, WHAT HE IS DOING IS LEANING INTO THE POLITICAL EXTREME WING OF HIS PARTY BECAUSE IT'S AN ELECTION YEAR.

WE LOOK FORWARD TO WATCHING THE STATE OF THE STATE.

I HOPE HE'LL TALK ABOUT HIS PLANS TO ACTUALLY DO SOMETHING FOR WORKING FAMILIES, BUT I DOUBT IT.

>> AND LAURA.

FINAL THOUGHTS.

>> YEAH, SO, PEG ROSENFIELD WAS A LONG-TIME VOLUNTEER FOR THE LEAGUE OF WOMEN VOTERS OF OHIO.

SHE WAS A FIERCE ADVOCATE FOR VOTING RIGHTS.

VERY SHARP MIND AND KEEN SENSE OF HUMOR.

HER OBITUARY SAYS THAT SHE DIED AFTER A LONG BATTLE WITH THE OHIO LEGISLATURE.

AND AT HER FUNERAL THIS WEEK, LEAGUE OF WOMEN VOTERS SAID THE LAST WORDS SHE WANTED UTTERED AT HER SERVICE AND THOSE WERE, DON'T LET THE SONS OF BITCHES GERRYMANDER OHIO.

>> SHE WAS ONE OF A KIND AND WAS EXPRESSING HER OPINION BOTH IN THE DISPATCH LETTERS TO THE EDITOR AND ON ALL SIDES OF ANN FISHER, RIGHT UP TO HER FINAL DAYS.

SO, CONDOLENCES TO HER FAMILY.

THAT IS COLUMBUS ON THE RECORD FOR THIS WEEK.

CHECK US OUT ONLINE, WOSU.ORG/COTR WHERE YOU CAN SEE EACH EPISODE ON DEMAND.

FOR OUR CREW AND PANEL, I'M MIKE THOMPSON.

HAVE A GOOD WEEK.

-- Captions by VITAC -- www.vitac.com CAPTIONS PROVIDED BY WOSU-TV, THE OHIO STATE UNIVERSITY