>>> NOW WITH ALL EYES FOCUSED ON TENSIONS IN THE MIDDLE EAST, THE SITUATION ON THE GROUND IN UKRAINE IS DIRE.

OVERFLIGHT A RUSSIAN ATTACK IN THE DNIPROPETROVSK REGION KILLED EIGHT PEOPLE INCLUDING TWO CHILDREN.

PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY CALLED HIS ALLIES LIFE SAVERS FOR HELPING TO AVOID MORE DAMAGE AND URGES THE WORLD NOT TO FORGET THEIR WAR.

THEY SUDDENLY ACCELERATE TO THE FINISH LINE FINALLY, DESPITE THREATS FROM LAWMAKERS TO OUST HIM, HOUSE SPEAKER MIKE JOHNSON SPUTING HIS MULTIBILLION AID PACKAGE TO THE VOTE THIS SATURDAY.

>> I CAN MAKE A SELFISH DECISION AND DO SOMETHING THAT'S DIFFERENT BUT I'M DOING WHAT I BELIEVE TO BE THE RIGHT THING.

I THINK PROVIDING AID IS CRITICALLY IMPORTANT.

>> OUR NEXT GUEST IS HUMAN RIGHTS LAWYER OLEKSANDRA MATVIICHUK.

SHE WAS AWARDED A NOBEL PRIZE FOR HER WORK AS HEAD OF THE CENTER FOR CIVIL LIBERTIES.

SHE TALKS ABOUT THE IMPORTANCE OF STANDING UP TO RUSSIA.

>> THANKS.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

SINCE THE WAR IN UKRAINE BEGAN, YOUR ORGANIZATION HAS DOCUMENTED MORE THAN 68,000 INSTANCES OF CRIMES YOU SAY HAVE BEEN COMMITTED BY THE RUSSIANS.

THESE ARE HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS.

TELL ME, WHAT ARE THE TIMES OF THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DOCUMENTED?

>> RUSSIAN TROOPS HAVE DELIBERATELY SHE TOLD CHURCHES, MUSEUMS AND HOSPITALS.

THEY ARE IN EVACUATION CORRIDORS.

THEY TORTURE PEOPLE IN CAMPS.

THEY ABDUCT, ROBBING, RAPING AND KILLING CIVILIANS IN THEIR TERRITORIES.

SO SUCH THINGS.

>> HOW DO YOU VERIFY THIS?

DO YOU INTERVIEW THE SURVIVORS?

>> WE BUILD NATIONAL NETWORKS AND COVER THE WHOLE COUNTRY WHICH INCLUDE OCCUPIED TERRITORIES.

WE USE DIFFERENT SOURCES OF VERIFICATION AND GATHERING INFORMATION.

WE COLLECT TESTIMONIES.

WE SEND GROUPS TO WORK ON THE OCCUPIED TERRITORIES.

WE RESEARCH AND OPEN DATA FOR VERIFICATION.

IF SOMETHING HAPPENED, FOR EXAMPLE, IN RESIDENTIAL BUILDINGS, THEY ARE ABLE TO COME TO THE PLACE AND TO MAKE THEIR OWN VIDEOS AND SPEAK WITH PEOPLE.

>> THERE IS A STORY YOU TALK ABOUT WHEN A YOUNG WOMAN, 14-YEAR-OLD NAMED SOPHIA FROM MARIUPOL.

WHAT THAT TO HER?

>> THIS YOUNG GIRL TOGETHER WITH HER MOTHER AND HER YOUNGER SISTER FOUND THEMSELVES IN THE CE CENTER.

AND THE AIR BOMBS WAS FLOWN TO HER RESIDENTIAL BUILDINGS.

AND LIKE EVERYTHING WAS DESTROYED.

AND SHE TOLD TO MY COLLEAGUES THAT SHE TRIED TO DIG UP HER MOTHER FROM THE RUBBISH OF THE RESIDENTIAL BUILDINGS.

SHE DESCRIBED VERY EMOTIONALLY HOW IT WAS.

LIKE THE PLANE WAS IN THE SKY AND SHE WAS AFRAID THAT ANOTHER BOMB WOULD APPEAR.

SHE TRIED TO HELP HER MOM.

THE PROBLEM IS THAT UNFORTUNATELY, HER MOM DIED.

AND SHE COULDN'T MANAGE TO SAVE HER.

>> WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?

>> SHE WAS LEFT FIELDLY DEPORTED TO THE OCCUPIED TERRITORIES.

AND THEN FORCED TO BE SENT TO RUSSIA.

BUT HER ELDER SISTER CAME AND TOOK HER AND THIS IS, UNFORTUNATELY, JUST EXCEPTION.

WE HAVE IDENTIFIED, I MEAN, UKRAINIAN GOVERNMENT MORE THAN 19,000 UKRAINIAN CHILDREN ILLEGALLY DEPORTED TO RUSSIA.

AND ONLY 400 FROM THEM RETURNED HOME.

>> SO WHAT HAPPENS TO THESE 19,000 CHILDREN?

>> THEY WERE PUT IN HEEDUCATION CAMPS.

SOME OF THEM START TO BE QUICKLY PREPARING FOR FORCIBLE ADOPTION IN THE RUSSIAN ADOPTIVE FAMILIES.

THIS IS IMPORTANT TO MENTION THAT ACCORDING TO RUSSIAN LEGISLATION, THEY CAN CHANGE NOT JUST THE NAME BUT THE PLACE AND DATE OF BIRTH.

THIS IS IMPORTANT BECAUSE AMONG THE CHILDREN ARE CHILDREN WITH PARENTS WHO WERE ARRESTED BY RUSSIA, AND THEY ALSO ARE PREPARING FOR FORCIBLE ADOPTION.

AND THIS IS A VERY SERIOUS SITUATION.

I CAN'T UNDERSTAND WHAT IS IN THE HEARTS AND MINDS OF THE PEOPLE.

HOW IT CAN BE THAT YOUR CHILD IS, HAVE TO BE FORCIBLE ADOPT.

>> WHAT PURPOSE DOES THIS, OR WOULD THIS SERVE A COUNTRY LIKE RUSSIA TO DO THIS?

WHAT KIND OF AN EFFECT DOES IT HAVE TO THE UKRAINIAN WAR EFFORT, TO THE PEOPLE, TO THE CULTURE?

>> IT'S A GENOCIDE FOR RUSSIA TO BE SUPREME.

JUST RECENTLY, THEY PROVIDED INTERVIEW.

AND ONCE AGAIN, HE REPEATED THE CLAIMS THAT THERE ARE NO UKRAINIAN NATION.

THERE IS NO UKRAINIAN CULTURE.

THERE IS NO UKRAINIAN LANGUAGE.

AND WE FOR TEN YEARS, HOW THIS WAS A HORRIBLE PRACTICE.

RUSSIAN TROOPS DELIBERATELY EXTERMINATE ETHNIC LOCAL PEOPLE.

HOW RUSSIAN TROOPS DELIBERATELY DESTROYED UKRAINIAN HERITAGE.

NOW WHEN THEY ARE OUR CHILDREN, AND SEND THEM TO RUSSIA, IT IS PART OF THIS GENOCIDAL POLICY BECAUSE THEY WANT TO BRING THE CHILDREN UP AS RUSSIANS AND REMAIN THEIR IDENTICAL.

>> WHEN YOU HEAR THE NAME SOPHIA OR YOU TALK TO AND INTERVIEW THE SURVIVORS OF THESE TRAGEDIES AND ATROCITIES AND YOUR TEAM DOCUMENTS THIS DAY IN AND DAY OUT, YOU SEE THE WORK THAT THEY'RE DOING, HOW DO YOU PROCESS THAT?

>> FRANKLY SPEAKING, IT'S NOT EASY QUESTION TO ANSWER.

I WASN'T PREPARED FOR SUCH SCALE OF ATROCITIES.

EVEN ME, A LAWYER WITH MY FIELD EXPERIENCE, IT'S IMPOSSIBLE.

FIRST AND FOREMOST, WE ARE ALL HUMAN BEINGS.

NOW WE ARE FACED WITH UNBELIEVABLE SCALE OF WAR CRIMES.

AND RUSSIA USES WAR CRIMES FOR FEARFUL RUSSIA ATTEMPTS TO BREAK PEOPLE'S RESISTANCE AND OCCUPY THE COUNTRY BY THE IMMENSE PAIN OF THE CIVILIAN POPULATION.

TO BE CLEAR, WE DOCUMENT NOT JUST VIOLATIONS OF GENEVA.

WE ARE DOCUMENTING HUMAN PAIN.

>> WHAT IS THE FORUM WHERE A COUNTRY COULD BE BROUGHT TO JUSTICE?

>> IT'S A GOOD QUESTION.

I START TO ASK MYSELF FOR WHOM DO WE DOCUMENT THESE CRIMES FOR?

AS A HUMAN RIGHTS LAWYER, I FIND MYSELF IN SITUATIONS WHERE THE LAW DOESN'T WORK.

IN 2022, THE U.N. COURT OF JUSTICE ISSUED THE DECISION AND OBLIGED RUSSIA TO WITHDRAW RUSSIAN TROOPS FROM UKRAINE.

AND RUSSIA IGNORED EVEN THE DECISION OF THE U.N. COURT JUSTICE.

SO THE WHOLE U.N. SYSTEM OF PEACE AND SECURITY CAN'T STOP THESE ATROCITIES.

AS A HUMAN RIGHTS LAWYER, I DO BELIEVE IT IS TEMPORARY.

THAT'S WHY WE ARE DOCUMENTING THESE CRIMES SO THAT SOONER OR LATER, ALL RUSSIANS WHO COMMITTED THESE CRIMES BY THEIR OWN HANDS, AS WELL AS PUTIN AND POLITICAL LEADERSHIP AND HIGH MILITARY COMMAND OF THE RUSSIAN STATE WILL BE BROUGHT TO JUSTICE.

BEFORE THIS TIME, WE HAVE TO SEE.

AND THAT'S WHY I WILL BE VERY HONEST.

WE NEED WEAPONS TO DEFEND OUR COUNTRY, TO DEFEND OUR PEOPLE, AND TO DEFEND OUR FREEDOM.

NOW WE ARE IN A SITUATION WITH A LACK OF WEAPONS.

THE MILITARY SUPPORT IN CONGRESS IS BLOCKED.

I HOPE IT WILL BE RESOLVED.

>> SOMEONE WILL WATCH THIS AND SAY THIS IS A NOBEL PEACE PRIZE LAWYER.

I CAN'T SHE WORKS TOWARD PEACE AND SHE'S ADVOCATING FOR WITH THA THAT, FOR WEAPONRY AND WAR.

IN ORDER TO DO WHAT?

>> UKRAINIANS WANT PEACE MUCH MORE THAN ANYONE ELSE.

BUT PEACE DOESN'T COME WHEN A COUNTRY WON'T STOP FIGHTING.

THAT'S NOT PEACE.

THAT'S OCCUPATION.

AND RUSSIANS KILLED.

OCCUPATION IS JUST ANOTHER FORM OF THE WORD WHICH BECOMES MORE INVISIBLE FOR THE INTERNATIONAL SOCIETY.

I KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT BECAUSE I DOCUMENTED IT FOR TEN YEARS.

OCCUPATION MEANS TORTURE, SEXUAL VIOLENCE, ENFORCED DISAPPEARANCE, IN DENIAL OF YOUR IDENTITY, FORCIBLE ADOPTION OF YOUR OWN CHILDREN, CONCENTRATION CAMPS AND MASS GRAVES.

WE ARE FIGHTING FOR PEACE.

THERE IS NO ANSWER IN THE WHOLE WORLD HOW TO STOP PUTIN FROM THIS.

>> YOU SAID IN PART OF YOUR ACCEPTANCE PEACE, THAT JUSTICE SHOULD NOT DEPEND ON THE RELIANCE OF AUTHORITARIAN REGIMES.

EXPLAIN THAT.

HOW DO WE DEVELOP A LEGAL INFRASTRUCTURE?

>> OH, YES, IT'S A PROBLEM THAT WE STILL LOOK TO THE WORLD, THROUGH THE LENS OF THE TRIALS.

IT WAS, NAZI CRIMINALS WENT RIGHT ONLY AFTER THE NAZI REGIME HAD COLLAPSED.

NOW WHEN I MEET WITH PRESIDENTS, PARLIAMENTS, I OFTEN HEAR, WHEN YOU WIN, YOU WILL HAVE JUSTICE.

BUT WE LIVE IN NEW CENTURY.

JUSTICE CAN'T WAIT.

JUSTICE MUST BE INDEPENDENT.

WHEN AND HOW THE WAR WILL END.

WE HAVE TO PUNISH THE LEADERS REGARDLESS OF THE RESULTS.

THIS IS OUR TASK IN THE 21st CENTURY AS A HUMAN KIND.

SO THIS IS MY MAIN MESSAGE.

>> WE ARE IN THE MIDDLE OF A CONVERSATION THAT IS HAPPENING IN THE UNITED STATES RIGHT NOW.

CONGRESS IS TRYING TO FIGURE OUT FOR ITS OWN DOMESTIC REGIONS, IT'S TAKEN QUITE SOME TIME TO FIGURE OUT WHETHER IT WANTS TO GIVE MONEY TO UKRAINE.

YOU RECENTLY SAID THAT THE U.S. AND ITS ALLIES MUST GIVE UKRAINE EVERYTHING IT NEEDS TO REPEL RUSSIAN AGGRESSION.

IF WE HESITATE FOR TOO LONG, RUSSIA WILL TAKE MORE STEPS FORWARD AND DEVELOP DEMOCRACIES MAY BE FORCED TO FAYE PRICE WITH THE LIVES OF THEIR OWN CITIZENS.

EXPLAIN.

>> RUSSIA IS EMPIRE.

EMPIRE HAS A CENTER BUT NO BORDER.

IT MEANS IF THEY DO NOT BE ABLE TO STOP PUTIN IN UKRAINE, HE WILL GO SHOW THEM AND WILL ATTACK THE NEXT COUNTRY.

NOW, THEY DISCUSS ON RUSSIAN TV PUBLICLY, WHAT IS THE NEXT COUNTRY?

ESTONIA OR POLAND?

THAT MEANS IF IT HAPPENS, IF PUTIN IS SUCCEEDING IN UKRAINE, THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA WILL HAVE TO SEND THEIR PEOPLE TO DEFEND FREEDOM IN EUROPE.

THIS MEANS THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA WILL PAY THE HIGHEST PRICE.

>> THE ORGANIZATION THAT YOU WORK WITH, THE CENTER FOR CIVIL LIBERTIES, JUST THIS WEEK THE RUSSIAN MINISTRY HAS DECLARED THAT ORGANIZATION, WHAT THEY CALL UNDESIRABLE.

YOUR GROUP AND TWO OTHER HUMAN RIGHTS ORGANIZATIONS.

WHAT DOES THIS MEAN?

DOES THIS MEAN THAT YOU ARE FUNCTIONALLY UNABLE TO WORK IN RUSSIA?

>> WE WORK IN RUSSIA WITH THE HANDS OF OUR BRIEF HUMAN RIGHTS COLLEAGUES.

NOW WE HAVE A DISCUSSION TO WORK MORE SECRETLY, NOT TO PUT OUR RUSSIAN COLLEAGUE IN ADDITIONAL DANGER.

HUMAN RIGHTS ORGANIZATION IN RUSSIA IS CLOSE THE.

PART OF THEM ARE FORCED TO LEAVE THE COUNTRY.

TWO MONTHS AGO MY FRIEND AND COLLEAGUE, 71-YEAR-OLD OLEK, THE HEAD OF HUMAN RIGHTS CENTER, WAS JAILED.

BUT WHAT I WANT TO EMPHASIZE, WHEN I ASK MY HUMAN RIGHTS COLLEAGUES IN RUSSIA HOW WE CAN HELP.

BECAUSE YOU ARE IN A VERY VULNERABLE SITUATION.

YOU FACE NOT ONLY THE PUTIN REGIME BUT THE MAJORITY OF THE RUSSIAN PEOPLE WHO UNFORTUNATELY SUPPORT THIS.

WHAT THEY CAN DO FOR YOU.

THEY ALWAYS RESPONDED, IF YOU WANT THE HELP US, PLEASE, BE SUCCESSFUL.

ONLY SUCCESS OF UKRAINE AND MILITARY DEFEAT OF RUSSIA PROVIDE A CHANCE FOR DEMOCRATIC FUTURE OF RUSSIA ITSELF.

IT'S A LUCKS RIVER TO HAVE A CHANCE.

>> LAST YEAR THE INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL COURT ISSUED AN ARREST WARRANT FOR RUSSIAN PRESIDENT PUTIN ACCUSING HIM AND TRYING TO HOLD HIM RESPONSIBLE FOR PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE ABDUCTIONS OF CHILDREN FROM UKRAINE.

AND I WONDERED, WHAT SHOULD THE REST OF THE WORLD DO WHEN THE THIRD PARTY LIKE THE ICC SAYS SOMETHING LIKE THAT?

>> IF POLITICIANS PUT THEIR DECISION AND MAKE THEIR DECISION ON THE ECONOMIC INTERESTS OR POLITICAL INTERESTS OR SECURITY CONCERNS, AND DON'T TAKE INTO ACCOUNT THE VALUES OF FREEDOM AND DEMOCRACY, EVEN IF SUCH POLITICIANS WILL BENEFIT IN SHORT TERM, WE WILL EVADE CATASTROPHE IN LONG TERM.

WE HAVE TO RETURN VALUES INTO POLITICS.

IT IS VERY, VERY IMPORTANT.

BECAUSE ALL THE SITUATION WHICH WE HAVE IN THE CURRENT MOMENT, IT IS A RESULT OF SUCH IRRESPONSIBLE BEHAVIOR.

WE WERE TOLD THAT RUSSIA SECURED THEIR, THEY KILLED THEIR OWN JOURNALISTS.

RUSSIA COMMITS HORRIBLE CRIMES IN DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE WORLD.

BUT WELL DEVELOPED DEMOCRACIES AND POLITICIANS CLOSE THEIR EYES TO THIS FACT.

THEY CONTINUE TO DO BUSINESS AS USUAL WITH RUSSIA, SHAKING PUTIN'S HAND.

AND THIS MAKES THE SITUATION, RUSSIA STARTS TO THINK THEY CAN DO WHATEVER THEY WANT.

AND THAT'S WHY THIS ARREST WARRANT WITH THE INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL COURT IS SO IMPORTANT.

IT SHOWS TO THE POLITICIANS THAT PUTIN IS OFFICIAL LY RECOGNIZED AS THE BIGGEST KIDNAPPER IN THE WORLD.

FIRST AND FOREMOST, WE ARE HUMANS.

AND THERE ARE A LOT OF THINGS WHICH HAVE NO LIMITATIONS ON NATIONAL BORDERS.

SOLIDARITY IS ONE OF SUCH THINGS.

WE NEED MORE BRAVERY AND MORE HONESTY IN EXTERNAL POLICY OF DIFFERENT COUNTRIES.

BECAUSE WE ARE VERY INTERCONNECTED.

>> ARE YOU CONCERNED THERE WAS SUPPOSED TO BE A PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION IN UKRAINE AND VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY HAS POSTPONE THAT HAD AND SAID, WE SHOULD BE FOCUSING ON THE WAR RIGHT NOW?

ON THE ONE HAND, HE IS VOCIFEROUS ABOUT PRESERVING DEMOCRACY.

ON THE OTHER HAND, YOU SEE HIM POSTPONING WHAT IS A DEMOCRATIC PROCESS.

IS THERE AN ASSURANCE SOMEWHERE THAT THE UKRAINIAN PEOPLE HAVE THAT WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH THE WAR 1st AND WE CAN EITHER ELECT HIM OUT OF POWER OR WE'LL ELECTED HIM TO STAY?

>> PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY HAS TO CALL THE CONSTITUTION OF UKRAINE AND IT PROHIBITS AN ELECTION DURING THE WAR TIME.

LIKE MANY OTHER CONSTITUTIONS IN THE WORLD.

THERE ARE A LOT OF PRACTICAL PROBLEMS WHICH HAS TO BE SOLVED.

HOW TO PROVIDE FOR 7.5 MILLION PEOPLE.

WHERE WE CAN FIND MONEY.

HOW TO SECURE THE WHOLE ELECTORAL PROCESS WHEN EVEN INTERNATIONAL OBSERVERS WILL NOT GO TO DO THE ELECTORAL PROCESS.

HOW TO PROVIDE OPPORTUNITIES AND SECURE THE RIGHT TO VOTE FOR PEOPLE IN TRENCHES?

THE MOST ACTIVE PART OF UKRAINIAN SOCIETY IS IN THE ARMED FORCES.

SO A LOT OF PRACTICAL PROBLEMS WHICH HAVE TO BE SOLVED.

BUT WHY I'M LOOKING OPTIMISTIC, EVEN DURING THIS DIFFICULT TIME FOR UKRAINIAN EXISTENCE, BECAUSE I KNOW THAT WHEN YOU OPEN THIS, UKRAINIANS WERE ASKED, WHAT IS THE MAIN VALUE FOR YOU?

THEY ALWAYS PUT FREEDOM ON THE FIRST PLACE.

>> 2022, NOBEL LAUREATE OLEKSANDRA MATVIICHUK, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.