>> The Kentucky state treasurer can be an executive job.

That is what the office holder makes of it.

So often best to probably gives are assigned to the office.

A watchdog for public dollars and a champion for good government.

The state constitution spells out the role of treasurer.

But how does Kentucky's new checkbook holder say from south in the office?

What does he want to accomplish this year and beyond?

I'll ask state Treasurer Mark Metcalf now on connections.

♪ ♪ Thanks so much for joining us for connections today.

I'm Renee Shaw, Kentucky's new state Treasurer Mark Metcalf joins us today to talk about his new role handling the state's checkbook that cast background may seem unique to the role of treasurer.

>> Its practice law for more than 35 years as a private attorney, state and federal prosecutor.

And as an immigration judge in Florida, he's twice represented Kentucky before the U.S. Supreme Court as a special assistant attorney general, the former combat veteran who holds the rank of Lieutenant colonel also served as Garrett County attorney in Lancaster, Kentucky Post.

He was elected to 6 times.

Mister Metcalf won his first statewide election in November as treasurer.

And he joins me today to talk about his new job as head of the state's financial office and what he's hoping to accomplish.

Welcome, good to see you again.

Thank you, Renay.

I hasn't been that long since we've talked to him during the campaign.

You were here and we appreciate your participation in this program and our Kentucky tonight engagement.

So thank you.

It's an honor to be here.

So no more treasurer elect to can just call you treasure Metcalf.

How does that sound sounds good.

Yeah, I work for you.

Did work for it to tell us about the rigors of the campaign and people may think the governor's race, of course, is the marquee race and what a lot of people pay attention to with you all where out just as much shoe leather.

I imagine down ballot as the governor.

>> Well, it it's fair to when you run for statewide office in you do it the right way.

You touch all areas of the state.

We tried to get as many counties as we could.

My campaign manager said we've got more than 100 counties in so go from, let's say Pikeville all the way down to Fulton and I didn't get to but I did get to Hickman just above a close enough and saw the confluence yeah of high in the Mississippi and it's then when you see something like that, you begin to appreciate just how Big Kentucky is and what a drive it is from Pikeville to Hickman, right?

I mean, that's a whole day on them.

>> Road that's a whole day.

Yeah.

Done that a few times.

But you learn a lot about the state when you are on the ground.

They engage people eyeball to eyeball.

Absolutely.

And you know, you get to Harlan County and you see the cold economy there that is still there.

And just sort of struggling right now to realize how important mining is to Kentucky's economy and then you get to the Delta of Kentuckyian western Kentucky.

Appreciate appreciate how much agriculture means the state.

So it's a it's a good lesson.

Yeah.

>> Let's talk about your first forays political office, not an elected position, but I understand you once worked for how Rodgers, who is the dean of the House and longest serving member.

Tell us about that experience with the Congress.

You learn how to take care of people in your cry for help from jurors.

>> Power to the first congressional He tasked all of those young kids.

And I was only what was considered the time to be a lot of responsibility, meeting constituents from across the 5th Congressional district delivering campaign If nothing else.

But visiting with them having a bite, he'd been a glass of iced tea with them and then reporting back to him.

He then took me on to Washington staff.

Put me in charge is a as a junior legislative assistant, although units, he never calls that we were all given the same dignity is legislative age.

But the city to the UN to work on issues with the Soviet Union.

I was in a for foreign affairs and defense, a brief bills for him and and if the vote when to midnight.

I stayed in the office until midnight with the congressman.

you got with H*** Rogers, you got see how it's done, right?

Every time.

Yeah.

>> So did that entice you even more?

You know, maybe I want to get into this a little bit deeper.

Was that what did it for you?

>> It's what did it for me.

And that's a good way to put I left the staff went to that home to Kentucky, went to law school here in Lexington and ran for Congress in certainly wanted to be a congressman and worked hard but didn't quite get there.

>> Just by for a vote, just not for And that was a a.

>> A deer lesson in I'm not going to blame of except again, the mayor should have gotten 4 more votes at home and had I done that, there's no guarantee I would have defeated Congress and asked for, but at least we would have gotten to the general election.

All right.

but best race ever lost?

>> I was going to say the lessons that you learn from defeat are just is too great as those that you learn from victory.

>> Indeed, in probably they're more Lincoln.

Once that he learned more from his losses in from his victories.

I think the same is true for all of us.

But I can certainly personalize and say it's true for me, right?

And what you learned from all of that previous experience helps you in this run, would you say even though it came many years later and lots of other experience that you've gone and along the way?

Well.

>> I agree with that.

The that the way to characterize it would be that I had 27 years to think because it was 27 years from that loss in 1996, and to a recall what we did, right?

We did wrong and how to not make them the same state wise.

Certainly we decided that getting into a race like that meant doing a full-scale three-dimensional race across the state, visiting every Republican voter that we could managed to see and then reaching out to them an election to election time with good advertising.

Yeah.

>> And just think about how so much has changed in those 26 27 years.

There was no social media.

Now we're still just kind of navigating our way will recall at Www Dot, right?

All right.

Our whole nomenclature and and and vocabulary around.

>> Internet at high speed, you the high-speed the information highways.

But we've always going to say those terms anymore.

We just things about how campaigns have been so influenced by all of this new technology in the digital era.

>> Facebook would come along almost 20 years I think it really became big about 2005. so social media affecting the outcome of races were the way a candidate presents immerse herself definitely change due to social media.

So none of that in 1996, all of that 20 years later, right?

>> We think about the strength of the Republican Party that has grown and those years since you first started out with how Rogers Congressman Rogers to where it is now, 80% of the general Assembly is dominated by Republicans.

All of the constitutional offices save one.

The governor Lieutenant Governor are Republican held and we look at the local level, the strength of the Republican Party and county judge executives, etc.

What do you think it you attribute that growth to win that success to it?

Is it all just Donald Trump?

>> Well, no, I'm the Republican it's if you want to look at its point, which you can say was on the rise, would begin with a Mitch McConnell's election in 1984, he was to reminded Kentuckians that they were actually conservatives, social conservatives, fiscal conservatives, and that lesson has become more obvious to Kentucky ends.

I believe as the Democrat Party has become more liberal, let's say and even trending towards what we call socialism.

They also have minimized the importance of faith and the life of our nation and our people.

So I think there's some contrast here that the Democrats are certainly changing the leadership of George Bush to.

I worked at the Justice there's also a deciding factor.

I think in Kentucky moving not just Republican in the late voted but Republican the way to registered.

He stood tall against terrorism.

He fully backed our military.

And, you know, we have Fort Campbell and Fort Knox in Kentucky with a very large veteran based in fact, the 5th Congressional district, how Rodgers district had the most veterans of any congressional district in the nation.

So there were I'm sure a lot of Van Democrats who can more, Dana, 5 with the conservatism of have Harold Rogers and George Bush and then Donald Trump and that brought them along my head.

But I think it really begins with Mitch McConnell and and that steady continuum of conservative leadership that he is offered Kentucky route.

>> One of the things that you talked about on the campaign trail, and I assume that you will bring to bear in your office is state treasurer is about environmental social governance, right?

Yes, looking, I want you to explain how you interpret the esg and why that is so important and your role as state treasurer to be mindful of.

>> Well, to the General Assembly has already taken a stand against PSG.

I think that is a a beacon for me.

When they attempt to minimize the importance or cancel.

Let's put it that way.

Fossil fuels.

We need to look at what that's accomplishing.

We have a huge snowstorm that just left Kentucky and the eastern United States and electrical vehicles would work.

You can't charge enough when it's cold outside the that form of energy is nascent.

It's just getting started and it is not replaced.

Fossil fuels give you an example when I was campaigning in in eastern Kentucky, the Kobe mind there was being sold to North Carolina.

Why?

Because the power plant, which had shifted over to green technology, green energy, we're failing.

And so they were buying Kentucky.

Kohl's in re commissioned power plants in western Kentucky.

Just this past winter in in 2023, what do we have?

We had green technology failing in western Kentucky.

What did the planners do?

They started burning natural gas because green energy failed for us too.

Buy into the Green technologies.

And the idea that we're the Earth is being choked by carbon emissions.

It's almost become a false religion.

In my opinion, what we need to do stand tall and strong for fossil fuel producers.

We need to make it calls.

Give you an example.

Cose 3 times cleaner today.

That was 10 years ago.

We need to protect coal and enhance to choose as a clean energy source is it is clean.

Green energy.

I'd say it's just as clean.

Why?

Because a lot of the green energy is being produced in power plants that use coal and natural gas.

>> So do you believe that cold can make a rebound and go back to the days of its heyday?

>> That if you mean that it can as >> has a robust as an industry as it once was.

>> That I don't know.

But can it be a robust in it?

He industry and can an employee Kentucky's can it produce severance taxes that put money, Kentucky's Treasury, that educates children?

Yes, I believe so.

You know, put food on plates, close on backs.

She's on feet.

He can do all of those things and do it better than then the ease are doing it.

And one issue brought up another time I was with your guest.

He said, what about new clear?

Absolutely.

Kentucky has more cleaner, fresh running water in any state in the union outside of Alaska.

We have plenty of rivers that can Quebec and that can support nuclear energy when the time comes and were an ideal spot for Kentucky to be the group.

One of the great energy producers here in the United States.

>> We know that Kentucky has a couple of natural disasters and to KET it into the eastern portion of the state, there was independent reporting surface mining could have worsen, flooding conditions and could continue to do so as that land is more vulnerable to flooding.

Do you buy into that?

>> I I don't buy into that as a fact.

It's certainly an argument is part of the recommendations.

But the office of Surface Mining requires the land be restored to its original natural contours.

If that is the case in the land was restored, flooding made been just as bad with the land restored.

I don't.

I think we should rush to any judgment here regarding than think the best way to do it just to make sure that that land that has been surface mind the restored.

And if it is, then they've done what they should have done.

And if it's not enough that we need to be too.

But let's put it this way builder construct berms are levees to protect those areas.

>> So to kind of gin.

Segway off of the esg and the theories perhaps and ideologies that some companies have employed.

I'm going to extrapolate that to dei.

Sure.

That conversation we're having about diversity, equity and inclusion at the time when we hear so many economic experts say if we just had 2 million more people in Kentucky, we might be as competitive or more competitive are aligned and competitiveness with Nashville, Tennessee in Indianapolis, Indiana.

But at the same time, if the state is talking about efforts to perhaps marginalize of section of the population to say we want more people, perhaps we just don't want those people.

Do you see the dei conversation perhaps ending up having some unintended consequences of threatening the direction of economic development that this state says wants.

>> I don't see dei is a threat.

As long as we KET a few things and not almost every government employer, almost every private employer has.

A slogan at the bottom there.

Page that says Equal Opportunity, Employer and that's the way we need to look at this.

There are plenty of smart people out there of all this and all the whole ethnicities.

We need to be promoting the app.

Wherever we go.

We and in my office and the county attorney's office, we have more women than We had a young black man who just finished high school.

I played football with his dad.

I ask him to come aboard.

We're looking for people who could perform at a high level and and do the job that we ask them to do.

We're looking for talent and there's plenty of talent to be found across all And I don't believe that is the the dei movement that I would identify with should be used to champion one ethnicity over another.

And that's where a lot of that the debate is focused, for instance, it at Harvard professors are not being promoted or hired if they weren't the right of the city.

According to the people who are doing the hiring at Harvard.

Who did they miss out on by by adopting the dei model for hiring.

The whole idea is to promote excellence wherever we go and that can be found in all ethnicities.

Wherever we you know, put a business and so on.

I don't buy into dei as it's been offered or as it was practiced in Harvard.

Let's say so.

>> Let's talk about where we are.

We're pretty flush with crash in Kentucky right now, which hasn't always been the case before we started our recording.

We talked about the 3 and a half actually plus billion dollar surplus.

Me know that we there's proposals to obligate a great deal of that toward one-time investments, infrastructure, broadband, the things that the state needs to really boy, economic development.

>> As the state treasurer, do you have a say so and and the General Assembly says they want to do with that money.

>> Well, no, I the legislature is the final authority.

The governor and the treasurer have to follow the agenda set forth by by the General Assembly and what I want to make certain of is that in the investments commission that I chair that Kentucky's money is his first full well invested and protected against loss.

And I've already met with our her investments team and they've shared with me that Mister Treasure.

We are investing all of Kentucky's available cash in safe investments and realizing a good return.

>> Just as those who are making the investments are well knowledge and well-heeled in that world to be able to make those wise decisions.

They are indeed.

>> They have a a wealth of knowledge and experience and they are people who are.

We're absolutely committed to the success of Kentucky and that's going back to the model about hiring.

Yeah, that's the kind of people we want to hire.

You know, where the where we want to be color blind.

We want people who are we are aiming for success and and bring success to Kentucky.

And that's what the people that I'm working with are being encouraged to do and and I got a good sense that they have their bearings and they're not going to let us down when it comes to the other pocketbook issues such as those with say, with the lottery Commission right front, sitting 350 million dollars into scholarships for young Kentuckians every year that kind of that kind of commitment to excellence tells me that we were on the right track and a lot of areas.

My concerns they're not just with higher education has gone on to our education assistance authority.

my conversations also include what about the trades?

What about providing the scholarship assistance to the trades that we have to young people going to college and it doesn't mean we have to rewrite any laws.

What it means to me is that we use the money's there being a church that are being generated for higher education and applying some we're generating new dollars from our investments to underwrite the costs of of trade, a trade school.

I a young person coming out, a trade school can make 40, 50, $60,000 a year an apprenticeship and a good education that Kentucky can provide and can help underwrite.

Yeah.

>> Yeah.

That's a very good conversation.

We know that there's a lot of conversation about.

I think there was a bill in the General Assembly.

I think it may have passed about expanding some that KET money.

Yes, to the trades, right?

And also homeschooled children.

Yes, right.

So I know that's a conversation that's being had.

>> But I think that the bill may not have passed the first time.

It's being looked at again.

And I hope you're right, hoping to pass, by the way, because I think that that is something we need to be advocating if it didn't pass the did pass, we need to and make sure that people know about it and drive it.

Take a vocational school schools in our high schools.

You know, if you layer it on smoke, some further training that the state can assist with.

I think that that there's that we put a win and everyone's column.

We do that.

Yeah.

>> So you do sit on lots of boards and you've learned that and this and this is I have many boards there are going to make sure that that there's of the Bush area obligation to make sure everything's on the up and up right when it comes to taxpayer dollars.

We know that you've given the previous state treasurer a lot of credit, Allison Ball for the outside of the box of what traditionally the state treasurer does.

What do you hope to continue that she started or inspires you to do something different?

So let's let's for so you are the credit we've given I think that too often we we want.

>> People to forget about what was accomplished in the past.

And I I don't agree with and I think we should mentioned those people.

Thank them for their service and remind others at the right time about what this this person did.

the give a plus is down.

Son.

But let's talk about what else we can do.

I'm sitting with the lottery commission.

2 weeks ago, I learned that they are withholding for taxes.

They're also withholding for child support.

I look at our own operations inside of the the treasurer's office.

I asked my staff, are we withholding for child support?

And they said, sir, we're not doing that yet.

I said let's make sure that we have authority to do it through the legislature or otherwise will adopt a regulation that allows us to do it.

Also said are we withholding for crime victims?

And they said we're not and I'm going to be going back and talking to his Harvell at the at the Lottery Commission.

And I'll ask, are you withholding for crime victims?

And if we're not?

Let's get that up and running.

And what is a child support order?

It's a court order.

What is a victims?

Restitution order?

It's a court order.

So once we have in hand a valid court order, let's withhold for those things and restore victims to their property and give child support recipients that they should be received.

Wire, though, so important to you this too.

Well.

>> Child support is like anything else that supports children.

It puts food on their plates, closer back shoes on their feet.

It let's mom and dad have meat, you know, medians at the end of every month through the getting every month and pay rent, KET the lights on crime victims.

Restitution is intended to make crime victims home.

You're never going to make them fully home because they always have the the bad memories of what happened to them.

But repaying them for their material losses is one way to say to them that the state took note and the judge took note of your your losses.

We're going to make sure that restitution is paid to.

So there's a very important goals.

And generally those are the goals only of government.

If you think about it we don't let private entities collect child support.

It is a purely government function and it's one when I was county attorney Gary County, we were tops and child support in 2017 for counties or size.

And we were, as I said, putting she's on fi close on backs food on plates.

And as we told child support, pains or pay workers, children eat every day.

They were close every day.

They need support every day.

So those issues are important to me as as treasurer to make sure that we're delivering the services from the Treasury side and we also delivered from the prosecution's.

I was just going to say so that's where this prosecutorial background comes into Others may not have ever thought that would even be an option.

>> To think to do that, thinking outside the box, I do want to talk about how you will run your office and when you the Garrett County attorney, I think you said that you were able to cut the office staff by 20% during your time there to reduce the size he did.

Was that because of attrition, only people who are retiring or did you just have vacancies that you didn't fail?

And do you see that there is some room for some consolidation, shall we say in the treasurer's office?

There's room for consolidation, but the consolidation was in a will.

But 2 things, good technology.

>> The state is now providing prosecutor's office is county attorney's offices the kind of technology that you would see.

So in the AGS office, Rick Hahn, a little strange moms.

The other thing we do is we recruited some very fine paralegals.

So this was such a touchy through attrition, as well as a consolidation.

We had some some very good results that way in my last 2 years in office, we did not seek an increase from the fiscal court and this year, my even my first month is treasure.

We have not sought.

I was contacted by the legislative legislative offices and asked do we have any requests to make?

I'm the only request we had was 2 purchasing a printer and the sealer.

So we have checks going out on time and be properly sealed against the A continuation budget for you.

Also just a continuation budget that only included one thing that was the improved technology that's the way I'd like to KET If we merely take only with the Legislature gives us in terms of increased payroll for for people who are earning that and were able to KET the staff the same size through technology will of accomplished a lot because, you know, over time most agencies tend to grow.

What we're trying to do is grow our business without growing the size of the office.

And that's something I promise to >> Well, thank you, Mister Treasure.

It's been a pleasure of the time.

Went by so fast will have to have you back again when you've got a little bit more time under your belt to see how things are going.

But we appreciate your service and continue success.

Thank you.

Thanks for having me on.

It's my pleasure.

And thank you for watching connections day.

You can always KET in touch with us throughout the week.

Kentucky Edition 6.30, eastern time and 5.30, central right here on KET.

And you can also connect with us on social media, whether that's the expo line on his Twitter, Facebook or you can listen to our podcast, the KET Dot Org Slash podcast.

And so I see you again.

Take really good care.

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