♪ >> Is American politics as polarized as we think who make up what's called the exhausted majority and what promising initiatives are underway to restore democracy, improve civil discourse and bolster positive civic engagement.

A conversation with members of the commission on the practice of Democratic citizenship.

Now on connections.

♪ ♪ ♪ Welcome and thank you for joining us for connections today.

I'm Renee Shaw, a two-year bipartisan group called the Commission on the Practice of Democratic Citizenship was launched in 2018.

Its purpose to explore how best to respond to the pension points in our political and civic life and bolster greater involvement in our democratic processes.

Its final in bipartisan report called our common purpose, reinventing American democracy for the 21st century was released in June 2020 and includes 6 strategies and 31 ambitious threat.

The musicians to help the nation emerge as a more resilient democracy by 2026, the nation's 200 50th anniversary.

Joining me to talk about it are Carolyn Lukens Meyer, the former executive director of the National Institute for Civil Discourse and member of the Commission and Steven Heights, president and CEO, the Rockefeller Brothers Fund and co-chair of the Commission and coauthor of the Report.

Welcome to you both.

Thank you for having from this point on.

I can call you Carol and and you can combine a it's a pleasure.

Welcome to Lexington.

Then to Kentucky.

The day you arrive, not the greatest.

Whether we apologize, but hopefully on your return it to be sunnier skies.

I do want to talk about first of all, how this commission came together.

What drove the organization of this commission, Carol?

Well, I think it was the recognition of the fact that our politics and even the divisions in our culture where increasing rapidly.

>> And frankly, an understanding that it will take both structural recommendations and cultural supports for people's behavior to, in fact, shift this.

So it was very exciting to be invited to be a member of the commission.

>> So when you talk about cultural and systemic or structural, what specifically do you mean?

Well, for example, on the structural side, we have a set of recommendations that are related to, for example, expanding the size of the House of Representatives, doing term limits for the Supreme Court.

one this a favorite of mine is moving toward universal voting in the United States like 38.

Other countries already have where we would receive our voter ID when we're born.

Just like our Social Security number.

And then we would do away with the issues of voter suppression or voter fraud.

We would just all be voting.

I mentioned that this is a bipartisan commission, but are some of these recommendations, Steven, a little bit more progressive.

>> And nature?

>> Well, you know, that's a very interesting question.

I think it's important to say a little bit more about the origins of this war.

The commission was established by the American Academy of Arts and Sciences and the Academy was founded in 17, 80 by John Adams and other scholar Patriots who are involved in the American Revolution.

The revolution was not yet won.

This idea of building a self-governing society was a radical idea, but it certainly was seen as a bold experiment and yet Americans in the colonies rallied around this idea, fought a brutal war and playing the American democracy.

Here we are these years later and the American Academy finds itself in a similar position, a nation where things are unformed again, where our future is unsettled and bringing together people from all walks of life in America, all the professions, all the scholarly disciplines.

To volunteer to serve on this commission, even though we have different backgrounds and different political ideologies to try to help this thrive in the 21st century.

So the the recommendations are quite ambitious and even bold in some respects.

And it wasn't easy getting the consensus among this very, you know, it.

>> Dynamic smart in gay rights group of Americans.

But we worked really hard.

And I want to say, I think one of the most important elements in that process was that we actually decided to listen to the American people, including here in Lexington, Kentucky.

>> Right.

Talk to us about these listening sessions.

>> Well, if they were, I think the defining feature of the work.

I mean, we did all the standard things.

We look at a to rewrite a lot of the new literature and the scholarly work and we consulted with a lot of experts.

But you know, this is a commission on the practice of Democratic citizenship.

And so we felt it was essential to have citizen voices in the mix.

And so we had something near 50 listening sessions in communities all across the country.

I'm very, very diverse groups of You know, refugees in in Minneapolis, the logical students in New York, conservative leaders in Lexington, Kentucky, people who would just run for office.

The first time here in Lexington as well.

We had I think, 4 different listening sessions in this community.

People in Arizona, people in California first year.

Naval cadets in Annapolis.

I mean, it was really section right.

And what we heard from them consistently was that they are deeply worried about the quality of our democracy and deeply hopeful that working together, we can build very effective and resilient and inclusive democracy that we need for the century.

>> Did they take ownership of their part in helping to facilitate?

They did such changes aided in part of the reason we're back in Lexington today is to go back and visit with some of the same people that we saw 3 years ago and ask them for an update.

Their own work for their own perspectives about what's happening in our democracy and to think together about how we can advance the implementation of some of these recommendations, even though you have a great cross section ideologically along political lines and other demographics.

Carolyn, I am curious because it seems like sometimes when these types of activities come to fruition.

>> The people that are drawn to it are naturally drawn to it.

They they want to be in a certain place where they want to see things improving, whether or not they are liberals or Republicans conservatives, they do see the need for things to change.

And so they are on kind of won a court.

How do you get the friendship involved?

How do you get the far left?

The far right to see the value of this kind of exercise.

We know that's a really important question.

And one of things I learned deeply in my role leading the National Institute for Civil Discourse.

>> The very far right and the very far left are actually not the targets of this because, in fact, if you look in any of our state's about 70 to 75% of people are not in those very fringe views and radical ideas.

If we're going to rebuild the country at this fundamental level, we need to appeal to this very large group of Americans who do have thanks to about the country and who actually want to do something.

But very often.

And we found this in many of those listening sessions very often, they don't know how to get connected in their community to make a difference.

And that's one of things we found in Lexington is you have more existing opportunities for citizens who are new to this work to get involved, whether that's about civic education, whether that's about voter integrity.

So part of what the way the commission is working in implementation is to work both in cities like Lexington, where there's already some excellent infrastructure and cities that don't have any of that infrastructure that might be true in more rural Kentucky, for example, or southern Ohio or eastern Pennsylvania.

So our goal is to work both in communities where citizens are already but to also be in places where we are just beginning to plant the seeds about I want to make a difference.

How do I do it?

And what's the case you make to those communities where they're not engaged in, maybe just don't know how.

>> What's your elevator speech to them?

>> The first thing we do is listen to that community.

One of the problems in this community that U.S. citizens would like to So we're not parachuting in with the specific answer.

We may have recommendations linked to that, but our goal is to get the citizens themselves to express where they're ready to take action.

And then we link them to community organizations and hopefully in most cases linked them to one of our recommendations that will become part of the implementation process right?

I do want to talk about that when all of this began to break down.

When did you notice that there was a demise and civility in political discourse?

Was there a certain year certain?

>> Presidential candidate or an election that really gave rise to the need for this type of exercise?

>> Well, this has been something that has been developing over quite a long period of time, literally probably around 40 years.

So it's not triggered by an individual campaign or an individual issue.

It's kind trend in American civic life that has been developing over this four-decade period.

But certainly accelerated in the last 10 years and came to a point that we all thought was nearly a crisis point.

And that's what stimulated the formation of the commission.

>> Are we at a crisis point right now?

We may be.

>> You know, and I think different members of the commission have very different views on this.

So I'm speaking, you line one member of the commission.

>> And the conditions by which you would determine you're at a crisis point.

What did they look like?

Well, I you know, frankly, I think some of the things look like January 6th, some of the things look like dropping voter participation rates.

Some of the things look like laws being enacted in certain states that make it more difficult to vote as opposed to making it easier to vote, which are a lot of the recommendations we've offered.

So, you know, the sense there is a a growing sense of what I would call Democratic despair in America.

People don't think the system is working for them right?

And so they are becoming democracy.

Dropouts because they say I have no agency.

I have no voice.

Nothing is changing.

My life is not getting any better.

No matter who's elected R or D and this is what we have to fight because that that is how a crisis can actually develop when Democratic citizens opt out of their democracy.

We believe that the marchers, the democracy to others who will manipulate it for their own good for their own benefit for their own idea.

And it becomes very fragile and imperiled.

>> Carolyn, are we as polarized as it seems?

>> That is a great question.

And my experience, there's a gap between the national narrative about this question and the community-based narrative about this question.

Excuse me.

There's no question that a national, whether it's traditional media or social media, we're constantly reminded and told about how polarized we are.

But when you come into a community, Cleveland, Lexington, Philadelphia, and you really get into the community.

They're the discussion is less polarized.

Not that the polarization doesn't exist, but people still have experiences of community actions that are working.

So one of the things I think we need is how do we get the Cumulus, Jean, of these local community stories that are actually solving problems to be heard by the whole Yeah.

What role does the media play in this traditional and social another?

Well, frankly, I think some of us have been working in the democracy field for a long time would actually described that the media has had a role in the divisiveness because, in fact, we know some outlets business model is based on exacerbating the divisiveness because it brings more people either clicking or watching.

So part of the role and part of what we're excited about in our recommendations is a way to, in fact, get more resources into local media, which tends to be less divisive and more reflective of what's actually happening in the community.

An example that we know about that's already happened is in the state of New Jersey.

They've actually passed the statute for a certain percentage of a particular digital advertising now goes to support public and local media, particularly generation of investigatory news.

So we see example that has actually led to one of our recommendation is awesome.

And we're hoping that that will happen in a lot of communities across the country.

Well, and also gives rise to the role that public media can play.

Absolutely like to think that we have added to that.

>> You know, question before we maybe talk more about that.

I mentioned exhausted majority in the intro and that is a term.

It came from a report called Hidden Tribes of America.

Can you explain dos this concept of the exhausted majority and are they being vocal about how tired they are?

>> So this this was very detailed public opinion survey research using very large sample sizes, large numbers of people being asked to respond to a survey and it was conducted by a nonprofit nonpartisan group called More in Common.

And they analyze the data coming back from these services and came to the conclusion that America can be characterized as being.

I'm kind of a segregated into 7 different political and as Carolyn said, obviously, very radical fringe on both ends.

But that said, that is a small sliver.

And then the other 5 tribes moving toward the center, but clustered around the center, our 67% of Americans who they turn the exhausted majority.

And this is these are the people who are at risk of becoming the democracy drop out because they are exhausted.

They're they've tried.

They believe in it.

They want to believe in it, but they don't feel that it's working.

So they're losing a sense of their own purpose in our democracy.

But they're the people who can be motivated because they want it to work and they want very much to be part of it.

We heard this from almost every citizen we talked to around the country.

So this is what gives us hope.

>> Why aren't elected officials getting this message and heating yet?

Unfortunately, and I or a failed Haha for all.

>> For years ago in the state of Connecticut.

And I was defeated and went on to spent 15 years working in state government and appointed positions and working in temp.

And so I have an understanding of the incentives that candidates are faced with when they're running for office and those incentives in particular around the issue of money and message.

Forced candidates into places where they end up dividing the electorate because that's the strategy that wins as opposed to uniting the electorate because that is seen as a strategy that doesn't perform.

And so part of what drove some of our recommendations was trying to change those incentives by trying to change the financing mechanisms and some of these other things that create these incentives for partisan polarization right?

>> Are these sends of both major political parties.

Are they vote?

Yes to blame.

They both guilty.

Yes.

>> They are both guilty.

But I also believe we have to acknowledge that there's an asynchronous difference in terms of election integrity right now.

There is which is what is very frightening about the midterm election that we're about to participate in the fundamental essence of how self-governance occurs in the United States is my vote.

I have to believe that the vote that I make is the vote that is registered and turns into who is in office.

And we're now sitting in a situation where we have over 300 candidates running for a combination of national state and local offices who are denying that President Biden actually won the 2020 election.

This is both turning off Americans from their participation and frightening Americans about whether or not their vote.

We'll be registered as they wanted.

So I think this is a place where all of these efforts, whether it's democracy reform efforts like our commission, whether it's media like public television, we have to really put off all the stops to ensure that this midterm election does go without incident.

Young people where they and the spectrum here and their involvement.

Are they already democracy drop out before they really engage?

What do you know about that population?

>> Well, some some And there is, you know, disturbing did a troubling data about how young people are viewing this and in part, it's because young people are in many ways, very which is wonderful.

And when they see the reality of politics, that doesn't fit into their view of how things should work.

And so they actually don't want anything to do with it.

You know, I have a 21 year-old son.

I hope he's not going to watch.

>> Her for a period when he was in high school, he was actually without my urging the kind of ambitious about wanting to go into politics and then.

>> Something changed and he decided he didn't want anything to do with it because the more he watched and observed and learned about it, the more he thought it was a dirty business, you know, vote on, quote and it was hard to argue the point except that I said, look, if you don't like the politics that way, the only way it gets better is for people like you and your friends to get involved to change.

And that's what we have to do with young people.

Want it.

He has and in his own it's been it's been a fun transition to.

>> Was it and you don't always have to get involved in elected P******.

You can serve in other capacities and state Governor, I love a good life.

Absolutely.

There are all kinds of ways.

Yeah.

And sometimes we have a myopic view of how we can really get involved in the political process and that far more options available.

That's absolutely right.

Yeah.

Let's talk about some of these recommendations that we said we're ambitious.

It did.

The first strategy achieve equality, a voice and representation.

So I do want to go back to this about I don't know if you mentioned about nonpartisan open primaries, but I know that many people are big champions of that but ranked choice voting is something that's been discussed in this state and we know across the nation.

So tell us why this is such an important strategy.

Well, right, choice voting.

>> The voter makes of choice for their first choice.

Their second choice in the 3rd choice.

Typically, although in New York City they actually chose 5 of their top choices.

And if no one gets above 50%, then the last the lowered floats drop out in those votes.

Go to the next highest person.

What's really important about this is 2 elements.

One is it reduces negative campaigning because I know that if I come in second, then you come in first.

But we have to have the ranked choice voting.

It will be better off if I have an attack to because if I attack you, your voters are not going to want to give me the second vote.

So that's an important piece.

The second piece is that means that no one gets elected unless they achieve above 50% of the votes.

This is now been enacted in the state of Maine.

It's been enacted in the city of New York City.

It's on the ballot in Massachusetts this year.

So we see more cities have adopted it.

Then states at this point.

But it is something we see an interest in across the country and something we think is quite feasible for a group of local citizens like in Lexington, the city or the state to actually become a champion of that recommendation.

It's one thing to are excited about being here and in other cities is getting Americans linked to helping with the implementation of specific recommendations.

>> In comment on that further or you know, we we're all watching the New York City.

It was the first time it was used in New York City and I was kind of holding my breath because New York City is a very complicated place and it's big and it's very, very diverse.

Multiple languages and all in all these things that could have made this a disaster.

And it actually worked very, very smoothly and it proved to thicken.

I really believe if you can do it in New So that was very And we do know that states and cities all across the country are now having this debate.

Should we eat?

Should we tried this before men experiment with it and see how it works in our jurisdiction and we want to try to help push that >> one of the recommendations, 1.4 under the strategy, support adoption through state legislation of independent citizen redistricting commissions and all 50 states any well and in Kentucky would have said if that would have been done and before the last Dyson, Daniels says things might have turned out a little differently.

Does that gaining some traction about this independent process?

>> You know, Jen and I want to I want to just, you know, the show our viewers not work because I hope you'll take a look at it because it it really, I think lays out a real blueprint for this country and and it's the combination of all these recommendations and each one of them individually is important and useful.

But in combination, they become something powerful.

>> Right.

So one can exist without the set of the year they could, but they won't have the impact.

>> So independent redistricting commissions is a central and we've all watched this this whole process of gerrymandering and what it's produced.

And it's a distortion.

>> Of the whole notion of representation.

And this is then creates another one of the incentives that keeps incumbents getting reelected because of the way the districts or form that suits just their particular brand of politics.

So what we've seen in the states that have experimented with independent redistricting commissions is a much better process and much fairer outcomes and more competitive districts, which means you get more competition in the democracy, which is very healthy.

And this is happened.

I think Michigan is a very interesting case.

You want to use because I'd only get back to a question about young people in the state of Michigan.

>> Redistricting campaign, which was successful was completely run by young people to act like a young woman named KET Fahey, who at the time was 26 years old.

Started the initiative had the forethought to have the grassroots organizing done by leaders in every county and in every county, it was a Republican student or person and a Democrat.

And she ran a retreat for all these people said they would get connected as human beings first right rather than their political differences being in the foreground.

They managed to get the signatures.

They managed to get on the ballot.

The both parties challenge the wording.

It went all the way to the court and it is now the law in Michigan.

Wonderful.

Well, look what the power of a young person can do.

They say as a child will lead them right?

>> What what's what's important about that story?

In is that what's the process?

Perfect know?

And they know that the first generation of this wasn't but it becomes something that becomes more perfect.

Might the, you know, the phrase of our founding and that's what democracy is.

It's got to be a constant process of integration and striving to become a more perfect union.

>> And the time we have remaining are we too far gone?

To go back now?

Absolutely not.

Definitely not.

Yeah.

>> A citizen here in Lexington, I think started their comment with what's really critical to coming back.

What this is about is truth and trust.

And if each one of us in our own lives take steps toward increasing trust, just with our fellow Americans as well as trust in our system.

And if we can come back to shared facts for the truth, we have a very bright future.

>> And to your point about local communities not having such a bifurcation and their identities or communication as we see on the national level because they know each other exactly.

Yeah.

They go to soccer with each other's kids and other activities and it's hard to demonize someone.

That's your next door neighbor.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah.

Well, this report, our common purpose.

This is an amazing I read it and I don't have a pretty shiny copper like, well, >> have not because just not so.

Thank you so much.

Our common purpose branding American democracy for the 21st century.

It certainly is a good read.

>> And it will inspire you hopefully to get involved to be a part of positive change.

Thank you so much for watching connections today.

You can follow me on Facebook, Twitter.

Tune in each week night at 6.30, eastern for Kentucky edition where we and form connect and inspire and do what Carol and Stephen say can help all of us rebuild our democracy.

In the meantime, take really good care.

And also the sun.

♪ I should've asking for an hour.

>> Thank What.

Thank you.

Thank you for this.

Yeah.

This is a warm up to later.

So thank you see you tonight.

Yes, I'll be I'll be flying in.

I finish the show that we do that.

I just mentioned about 6.45.

>> skid and of the 21st.