- Coming up next on "Black Issues Forum", mental health priority for schools surfaced as one of the many promises made during the State of the State Address.

- I've already directed tens of millions of dollars to this critically important effort, including Mental Health First Aid that helps teachers and school staff recognize the signs of a child in crisis.

- Don't go too far.

We'll be right back to talk all about it.

- [Narrator] "Black Issues Forum" is a production of PBS North Carolina, with support from the Z Smith Reynolds Foundation.

- [Promoter] Quality public television is made possible through the financial contributions of viewers like you who invite you to join them in supporting PBS NC.

[upbeat music] ♪ - Welcome to "Black Issues Forum".

I'm Kenia Thompson.

The State of the State Address has many people talking, leaving many wondering if promises made during his address are empty promises, or does Governor Cooper believe that local legislators will do what needs to be done to keep fueling opportunities for North Carolina citizens to succeed by investing more money in K through 12 education, mental health services, and public safety.

The most controversial of them all is the health outlook for the state.

Medicaid expansion has been a point of contention for years, but Cooper shared that the General Assembly recently agreed to a bipartisan deal that will expand the program, but also emphasized that if we don't move soon, the financial impact will continue to grow.

- Every month we wait to expand, not only costs lives, but cost our state more than $521 million a month in federal healthcare dollars.

And if we don't expand soon, we will forfeit an additional $1.8 billion in healthcare access and stabilization, or HASP funds, that our hospitals will never get back, and that would be particularly hard on our rural hospitals.

- To talk more about it, we welcome to the show North Carolina senator, Natalie Murdock, and political analyst, Steve Ra.

Senator, I wanna start with you.

When I heard that that monthly financial impact this decision process is having on our state budget, I was shocked.

Let's talk a little bit about what goes into this debt.

Is it really debt, and what's holding back this critical decision from being final.

- Yes.

Thank you so much, Kenia, for bringing up this really, really big issue, and it is something that I'm glad our governor articulated so beautifully, and it is a part of why we had a budget standstill, because of our inability to expand Medicaid.

And as he said, we forfeit some $521 million every single month from not expanding Medicaid, those HASP funds that he talked about.

Those are funds that go directly to those hospitals.

That specifically standalone is $1.8 billion, and that's the one that's really time sensitive.

If we were not able to reach an agreement, through at least about the May, June timeframe, that $1.8 billion will never come back.

Annually, you're talking about closer to $80 billion.

So there's a lot of money that we leave on the table every single year as we fail to fully expand Medicaid.

So, that is why we took a "take it or leave it" policy years ago.

But luckily, we do have the basics of an agreement on the table.

It's not finalized, but they had to verbalize that to really communicate to the federal government, to the federal D-H-H-S, to let them know an agreement is coming, so that we won't, yet again, leave these billions and billions of dollars on the table.

It took 11 years, but I'm glad that my colleagues have finally, finally come around so that those over 600,000 people across the state can finally get the healthcare that they need, and that we don't continue to leave all these federal dollars on the table.

- So I'm curious, 11 years, I mean, what was going into this decision?

To me, it's a no-brainer.

These people need coverage.

- Same.

It's a no-brainer to me, and, honestly, hats off to our governor for highlighting my Republican colleagues, particularly in the House.

There are Republicans who have run on this in very red districts, and still won their elections.

So, it's not as partisan as they wanna make it out to be, and with those HASP funds, that $1.8 billion, those are funds that will keep our rural hospitals open.

So, I'm a senator, obviously in an urban district.

Duke University and Duke Hospital is in my district, but those rural hospitals are struggling.

And they really, really, really need those federal dollars, so it should not have been political for whatever reason it was, but I'm glad that we are finally, finally gonna get closer to the finish line, and expand Medicaid.

- Steve, Natalie has just mentioned the rural hospitals, the governor mentioned the rural communities, talk about the impact that this will have, and how long will locking in this decision take to actually make an impact on the hospital industry, and actually see some things turning around.

- Well, I think the senator did a great job of summing the major issues up, but I think in terms of impact, the most exciting thing is, you know, providing healthcare to the 600,000 of low income families in North Carolina.

Many of them are working families, so, with special needs, mental health issues.

So, you know, Medicaid expansion is gonna help, and we're gonna talk about mental health a little bit today.

It's gonna provide more of those opportunities for mental health, a healthier workforce.

You know, healthcare insurance is going up every day, and having a healthier, more productive workforce is gonna help our small business succeed and grow, which is gonna create more jobs.

And as the senator said, the rural communities, keeping the hospitals open, these are all the things that I think are gonna be helpful for Medicaid.

In terms of, I think time is of the essence.

I mean, you know, we are leaving billions of dollars at stake right now.

Secretary Kinsley has said that if we, the decision we have to make, is whether to include it in the budget, which the Republicans wanna do, or whether we want to act separately.

The governor wants to act separately.

By doing it sooner, we could have these services offered within a few months, maybe this year, and that money could be put to use.

$563 million would be put to use, right now, in North Carolina, in a few months, for a rural, for mental health.

If we don't do it, and forfeit the opportunity now, and wait till the end of the year, and correct me if I'm wrong, Senator, I just think that there could be less money.

And what I'm hearing from the Secretary, is that money could be about $180 million, instead of $563 million.

So, I really hope your colleagues, you know, work together to get this done now.

But Kenia, that's what what I'm concerned about.

- Yeah.

- In reality, we can't afford to wait much longer.

Right?

We're talking about people who have preexisting conditions that may or may not be covered, right?

People who are continuing to experience life after a pandemic and there's a lot that's gonna happen that may take even longer to solve in the future.

Senator, do you have anything to add to that?

- Yes, as Steve mentioned, what is unfortunate, it is my understanding that leadership will be tying this to the budget.

So opposed to, we could do it today if we wanted to, we could go in there on Monday and they could put it out there in the house and the Senate and we can approve it and send it to the governor's desk and start providing those healthcare services.

But in politics there is something called leverage.

So they will be holding out until the budget.

- Go ahead, Steve.

- Preventive healthcare too.

We often forget that tests, you know, Medicaid can provide more tests for obesity, diabetes and especially after the pandemic you know, preventive, right?

So sometimes people don't take these tests because of the cost.

So as senator said, more healthcare services now if we got it to the governor's desk.

- Yeah, I don't know if either one of you can address this question but we know we've got Duke, we've got UNC but we've got a lot of rural communities in North Carolina and where do our hospitals stand?

Are they in dire need or is it just a little bit that they need to get the technology that they need to address their patients?

- They really, really are in dire need.

And I really do wanna talk about all of the hospitals.

Duke University, by and large is one of the largest, if not the largest because of just how far they spread across the state.

And people forget they're in rural areas.

UNC Hospital, they have a facility in Hillsborough.

So even our larger hospital systems, they're feeling it too.

So that haves that we talk about, that's $1.8 billion that helps them to provide additional healthcare services for folks that just come to the emergency room they don't have a primary healthcare position.

They want those services.

So us not expanding Medicaid is harmful to the entire healthcare system.

Very detrimental to those rural hospitals, but even those larger hospitals that have satellite campuses in rural areas they also need this additional funding to provide that much more care to those who are uninsured because of the lack of Medicaid expansion.

So it's all connected.

- So, you know, they said, what, by the end of the year we should see this in implementation.

Is that realistic or is this kind of just another wait and see?

- We will have to, we don't have a choice.

I really do wanna commend the current DHHS secretary at the federal level and the Biden-Harris administration.

They are serious about those states like North Carolina who've been dragging their feet with this.

And that is why you had that announcement last week to say that we were gonna move forward so that the federal government is prepared to start receiving all of our plans so that we can act as quickly as we can, unfortunately it will be tied to the budget, but behind the scenes we can start providing that information to the federal government so that we can have as seamless of a transition for those services as possible.

- Yeah, and hopefully our our citizens don't have to wait too long.

- Yes.

- Another aspect of health that was discussed received a lot of attention: Mental health in schools.

The governor received applause for his call to implement a Mental Health First Aid in all schools for students, teachers, and counselors.

- I've already directed tens of millions of dollars to this critically important effort including Mental Health First Aid that helps teachers and school staff recognize the signs of a child in crisis.

- In that same vein of talking about education, he went on to share the importance of early childhood education investment and following that investment into the representation seen in leadership at the college and university level.

- We also have the very best array of public and private universities, including more four-year HBCUs than any other state in the country.

[audience applauds] And we need to keep investing, but in order for our public universities to stay great, our leaders on the University board of governors and trustees must reflect the broad demographic and political diversity in our state.

- A lot to unpack there especially when we talk about diversity.

Senator, I'd love to talk to you about him acknowledging that we have a robust HBCU option here in North Carolina.

Do you think there's room in the budget for increasing what our Black colleges and universities need?

And what could that mean for our Black students?

- Yeah, there are, and I'm thrilled to represent one of the finest North Carolina Central University is in my district and thrilled that North Carolina was the first in the nation.

My colleague here in Durham, representative Zack Hawkins and my senate colleague Senator Gladys Robinson.

They are the co-chairs of the bipartisan HBCU caucus.

So we also have Republican chairs.

My colleague Senator Ford and the Senate represents Livingstone College.

And the governor invited all of us to come to the governor's mansion to talk in great detail about those needs.

And the reason that it needs to be a bipartisan caucus before the budget cycle really heats up, is to really lay out for all 10 universities what are those budget needs for the public and the private universities?

How can we help them as much as we possibly can?

So I do believe, I'm hopeful that this year we will see an unprecedented amount of support for our universities.

We know that our budget can withstand that with the additional $3 billion in revenue that we have.

I'm hopeful that some of that will make its way to our HBCUs because they're really having years of underinvestment.

I think that's gonna be a big topic.

And we have phenomenal institutions like Elizabeth City State University that has a phenomenal aviation program.

So as our HBCUs jump out there with different offerings that are critical really for all of the communities that they serve not just those students on that campus.

They're economic engines for our regions, for our state and continue to make sure that we have the best and brightest here in North Carolina.

So I do think that we will be able to increase their funding this budget cycle.

- Yeah, that's a good outlook and good news.

Steve, let's go back to the clip where he talked about mental health aid becoming a priority in schools.

He went on later to address that 51% of students, of children are more likely to die from gun violence.

Do you think our decisions on gun control and policing have an impact on the need for this Mental Health First Aid?

Is it the exposure to all the police brutality and the trauma that we've seen from these videos?

What do you think is fueling this?

- Well, this is a critical issue facing us here in North Carolina and around the country.

You know, as 51% of the children dying being victims of gun violence, hundreds of school shootings this year.

And you know, when Speaker Moore about I think it was a couple months ago, was asked about this issue, he pushed back and said, well, it's really a mental health issue.

It's not about guns.

But I would say that the gun violence issue, that what we're seeing in police departments has made this a public health issue.

And at the forefront of it is mental health.

I mean, you know, if you don't invest money in mental health programs, you're hurting the children who are so scared to go to school 'cause they may be shot.

Parents are on edge.

And then guns are getting in the wrong hands of people with mental health illness.

If you look at the Safe Communities Act, which was passed last year, that was a good model of the government coming together in a bipartisan fashion and investing in background checks, tighter security measures, artificial intelligence, and gun detection systems, where I know Durham and other cities have been looking at, mental health programs for youth.

All of these things I think can be invested, even in North Carolina.

So I think that Senator Murdoch and her colleagues in the Senate, this is a great opportunity to come together in a bipartisan manner and do what is right for the people of North Carolina, which is investing in mental health, investing in school safety.

So yes, they go hand in hand.

It's a public health issue, and I think it's critically important for all of us today that we live in a state where our children are not being murdered in their schools.

- Senator, I wanna bring you in and get your take on the issue of policing and gun control.

Do you think there was enough focus on this area?

And I wanna make a point when you look back at the address and the clip, there were some unhappy faces in the crowd.

What are your thoughts on that?

- Yeah, there definitely were.

And you know, I really do wanna lift up a lot of the law enforcement folks across the state that do want us to do more around guns.

They know that the prevalence of guns in the community is directly connected to this gun violence.

When you have gun buyback programs, for example, just because you turn those guns in, sheriffs currently don't even have the power to destroy those weapons.

So we still have a lot of loopholes where it's very difficult to reduce the overall amount of guns on the street.

I know there were a number of sheriffs that had concerns.

We recently repealed pistol permits in Durham alone and in Buncombe County.

Over 100 of those permits were denied, and it was for a reason.

It was because when the sheriffs did their due diligence, they found additional issues with that individual whether there be warrants or other arrests that didn't show up in the national background check system.

So there has to be a coordination with the legislation that we pass that make it really easier to even get guns on the street and make it more difficult for law enforcement to do their job.

And education is a part of it as well.

You have to get to children early.

You have to get to our young people long before they're even old enough to get access to a gun.

So educating our children is a big piece of it, but also giving law enforcement all the tools that they need and community-based systems so that we also can get a handle on violence through violence intervention programs and more programs that provide mental health support as social workers oppose to armed law enforcement when we know it's simply a mental health crisis.

- And I wanna stay with you.

Let's shift a little into diversity, that call for diverse leadership that's supposed to reflect the demographic in the schools.

- [Senator] Yes.

- It's been a continued issue but we've got a severe pay gap for teachers.

- [Senator] We do.

- And is it realistic to think that this call for diversity is possible without addressing the deeper funding issue in finding talent?

- Yeah, I wanna highlight Governor Cooper's leadership with the drive task force that he initiated.

I believe it was his first year in office to really work on dealing with diversity in the schools.

I know I'm grateful for the diverse teachers that I had coming up.

I'm proud graduate of K-12 public schools and on through the university system, and it really makes a difference.

You really need to see yourself in the classroom.

But we know that, you know, those bright minorities that are graduating from those HBCUs across the state, they are being recruited for a lot of other opportunities.

And I think a big part of that is also really, really fully funding and expanding our program, our teaching fellow program that really, really helps to get diversity in the classroom.

I think that's a big part of it, but teacher pay is also a really, really big one.

We will continue to work to get teacher pay up as much as we can.

We know that nationally, there are states including Virginia and Georgia, they're coming to North Carolina recruiting our teachers because we haven't been able to get a handle on pay.

Even Mississippi, believe it or not, they have done great jobs to work to increase teacher pay.

So we really, really are gonna have to do a better job with that if we wanna increase that diversity.

But really with the teaching fellows, it was a system that worked really, really well.

It was directly connected to minority, students across the state, and also restoring additional pay for masters education.

All of that will help with diversity in our schools, and we have to be intentional about it.

- We do, we do.

Many had some things to say about Cooper's address.

One in particular was Lieutenant Governor Mark Robinson.

He had much to say that negates the work of the Democratic Party.

- But while we've seen tremendous growth across the state, many families are still struggling.

If the Democrats have their way, they'll pull us back into an era of government overreach, high taxes, and attacks on our personal freedoms.

During the pandemic, we saw just how far they would go to control your lives.

They shut down your businesses.

They kept your children out of school.

And they told you you couldn't go to church.

- Steve, I'd love to get your initial reaction to his statements.

- Well, first of all, I think that, you know, his statements, clearly to me were playing more to the middle.

That, you know, I'm a moderate.

I want to appeal to the independence.

But this, you know, Lieutenant Governor Robinson has really said some, you know, very hateful remarks about, you know, transgenders, LGBT community and I think has really made a decision as a gubernatorial candidate and as a current lieutenant governor that he wants to really make culture wars the main issue at hand.

So that was my initial reaction because I don't think its- I think it's gonna be very difficult for him to pull back from the statements that he's made.

And on a personal note, as an analyst, I believe that the role of a governor in North Carolina or any state, but this is a really important position and I think experience really does matter.

And I think that, you know, Josh Stein has been a very successful attorney general, negotiating successful agreements with drug companies and opioid, fighting for the environment as a senator and attorney general, fighting for consumers.

And you know, I think that experience at the end of the day is what matters.

So, you know, it's gonna be interesting to see if this is the governor's race.

I really believe that the people in North Carolina will pick, will look to experience and I can't predict what's gonna happen but I think there's no question that Stein is the candidate to watch in terms of being able to succeed.

- Roy Cooper is our next governor.

- All right.

Senator Steve alluded to it already, we've heard some extreme remarks, different from the rebuttal that he had to Governor Cooper's statements.

- [Sen. Murdock] Yes.

- Let's talk about some of his, kind of, flip-flopping, right?

- Mhm.

- And, do we feel like he's going to be someone that we can trust?

- Not at all.

I think when people show you who you are, who they are, we should believe them.

I think there are reams and reams of documents, and quotes, and tweets.

Most recently, as a few months ago, when Speaker Nancy Pelosi's own husband was attacked in his home, he made light of that, made a joke of that, shared that on social media, that is not leadership.

Engaging in these cultural wars, attacking children simply for being who they are.

We really, I think when we look back at the legacy of Governor Cooper, who unfortunately cannot run for governor again, I think he would win again.

I think he really, really is the Uniter in Chief, and that is what your executive should be.

I think that Lieutenant Governor Robinson is already highly divisive.

He will continue to be so, we have all reason to believe he will be running for governor, and it's highly concerning.

And, we will continue to remind folks, myself included, of the harmful things that he said, the harmful positions that he has held, and even when you talk about overreaching government, I can't think of more of an overreach, than telling me what I can and cannot do with my body.

So, we've seen a lot of examples where we know that he would engage in that overreach.

And, as far as the things that he thinks that we're not doing, he can go to his colleagues in the House and the Senate.

The last time that I checked, they have the majority in the House and the Senate.

So, a lot of these things that he wants to get done, he can walk down the hall and ask them to do that, and we look forward to working with him on that.

But, until that time happens, we are going off of what we've already seen, and we know that he will be harmful for this Stateful disclosure.

Worked for Attorney General, Josh Stein, and just the phenomenal work he's done as Attorney General, believe that he is the most well suited for a number of reasons, but by far, the temperament.

- Yeah.

- We have seen that he has that even-keeled temperament, and we are a diverse state, and we should have a governor that represents all people, and that doesn't work to keep us divided.

- Yeah.

Steve, both you and and Senator have mentioned Josh Stein running for governor.

How do you think, I think I already know the answer to this, Robinson's gonna fare against him, and then, you know, more importantly, what should we be looking in this next viable candidate?

- Well, yeah, I'll take a shot here.

I mean, I think first of all, any candidate is viable.

I mean, let's be clear.

I mean, in 2016, Hillary Clinton was the presumptive president of the United States, and lost to Donald Trump.

So, there are similarities between a Trump kind of campaign, and Mark Robinson, you know?

Trump recently endorsed him, I think, last year at CPAC.

Clearly he's running, like what, you know, Kari Lake did in Arizona or Doug Mastriano, Pennsylvania, tying himself to the extremism and conservative of the Trumpism.

And, I think that's the danger.

I mean, I think that Robinson is from Greensboro.

He has a rural draw.

He's gonna try to differentiate from Stein that "I can connect to rural communities," and he's won one election, the last one, and he got more votes than the Attorney General.

So, let's, I'm just saying that, because any candidate is viable.

I do believe that the people of North Carolina will look to the experience, both the independents, the Democrats, and even moderate Republicans that they want a governor that's not gonna just fight culture wars.

But, a governor that's gonna talk about many of the issues we talk about in this show.

How do we create jobs?

How do we expand Medicaid?

How do we keep our schools safe?

How do we have a sustainable future?

Josh Stein, in my opinion, the people I can't predict as an analyst, but I think when they're on the stage together, that's gonna be the debate.

Who will be the chief executive of the eighth largest state in the country?

So, I think Stein can win, but it's gonna be a fight, and I think it's gonna, he's gonna have to work hard.

- Yeah, we'll see what happens.

[host and Sen. Murdock laugh] Senator Natalie Murdock, Steve Rao, thank you so much for being here, and we always enjoy having you on the show.

We invite you to engage with us on Instagram using the hashtag BlackIssuesForum.

You can also find our full episodes on pbsnc.org/blackissuesforum, and on the PBS video app.

Thank you for watching.

I'm Kenia Thompson, I will see you next time.

[upbeat music] ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ - [Spokesperson] Black Issues Forum is a production of PBS North Carolina, with support from the Z. Smith Reynolds Foundation.

Quality Public Television is made possible through the financial contributions of viewers like you, who invite you to join them in supporting PBS NC.