(exciting music) - This is "North Dakota Legislative Review" on Prairie Public.

I'm Dave Thompson, thanks for joining us.

Our guest today is Representative Jeremy Olson.

He represents Arnegard in the state legislature.

He is also the chairman of the North Dakota House Republican Caucus.

Thanks for being here.

- Oh, it's a pleasure to be here, Dave.

And second session, it's a lot different from the first.

- Well, let's talk about that for a minute.

What changes have you seen and how is it different for you?

- Well, of course, last session as a freshman, I was, you know, didn't know, I was drinking through a fire hose and learning as I went.

And it was a bit of a different dynamic from then to this time.

This time I've got a little more experience under my belt.

Not much, there's a lot of people with a lot more experience.

But I've kind of seen things happen once or twice, So I kind of know what to expect a little more.

I'm not as surprised as I was last session.

So it's a little easier to kind of, you know, anticipate what's happening and not be as frustrated when things don't work the way, you know, as efficiently as I think they should have as a freshman.

- So what is the role of the House Caucus leader then?

- Well, the way I see it, quite simply, is, as the House Caucus leader for the majority, my job is to do a lot of the work, a lot of the day-to-day stuff, a lot of the busy work so that the leader, Representative Horsford, can focus on the big picture items.

He's a phenomenal leader.

I respect him more than anyone else, but he's one guy and there's a lot on his plate.

Whatever I can do to take some of that burden off of him is my job.

I think of it like, in military terms, if he is the commander, I'm the command sergeant major, I'm taking care of the logistics, the meetings, training, getting the freshman taking care of, you know, taking care of this stuff so he could focus on the big tasks.

- Plus you have, what is it, 96 members?

- There are 94 House members, 83 of which are Republicans in the House.

- So that's not always easy to herd cats.

- Yeah.

The other part of it is is dealing with a bunch of type A personalities with varying levels of success, so.

(chuckles) - Since you come from Northwestern, North Dakota, what are your constituents telling you are their main concerns?

- For us, I'm in District 26, which is McKinsey and Dunn Counties, primarily in the heart of the Bakken oil field.

So anything that has to do with extraction tax, anything that has to do with the funding, anything that has to do with energy production, and what goes around that is of particular importance, because that's a large part of our counties or our district's economies is getting the revenue off of that.

- And of course, that's a large part of the state's economy as well.

- Absolutely.

So it's in everybody's best interest to, I steal the term from Chair Headland is, you know, "you feed the golden goose," you know?

- Absolutely.

And, you know, the revenue forecast was a little bit down for oil prices.

- Yes.

- Are you concerned that there might be a slow down in the Bakken?

- I would say so much a slow down, I think our production rate will probably be flat.

It won't go up or down too much.

The price projection is the price projection.

Now, there's a lot of factors that can change that, what's happening in Ukraine, what's happening in Europe, what's happening in other parts of the world can affect the price of oil.

But since it is a global commodity, this is a best guess.

And for the most part, they try to estimate very conservatively.

So it's better to under-promise and over-deliver than do the opposite.

- On the side of caution, for sure.

- Yes, sir.

- And you're right, it's a forecast.

It's not gonna say that's gonna happen.

- Right.

- Who knows?

There might be some swings and you just don't know.

- The other part is too, we're trying to forecast 24 months, 24, three, six months out, two years in advance, which is a lot harder to do than one year out.

- Be that as it may, do you support the idea of going to annual sessions?

- I do, yes.

For me and a lot of people in my stage of life that are still working, it's easier for me to justify taking a couple of months off every year versus taking a whole quarter off every couple of years.

I had to basically leave my job and come to the legislature and then hopefully get the job back when we finish up in May.

So for folks that are, you know, in our earning years, it's a tough ask.

And with term limits, you have a smaller pool to draw from because the good ones aren't able to stay as long as they used to.

- And the institutional memory also goes with that.

- Absolutely.

When this comes through, it gets all cycled out.

At one point, the most experienced person in the legislature will only have three sessions under their belt.

As a freshman, I was extremely fortunate because I had a lot of folks with a lot of institutional knowledge guiding me, training me, doing all the things even before the election happened to get me ready.

So instead of drinking through a fire hose, it was maybe a garden hose.

Who's gonna be the old man of the mountain when the most experienced person only has three sessions under their belt?

That's gonna be the challenge.

- That's a big question for sure.

I wanna ask something about one big issue that's out there that everybody started talking about before the session, property taxes.

- [Jeremy] Oh, yes.

- What's your position on the property tax bill that's going through the legislature right now?

- The main one is 1176.

That is now in the House Appropriations.

There's a couple other ones that are kind of sitting in Senate as well.

To be honest, I don't know what's gonna happen in the House Appropriations.

It came through the House, it passed, it went through the Senate policy, it passed, now it's in appropriations.

I'm sure there's gonna be some changes made.

Probably quite a few, but that's above my pay grade at this point.

- But this is one of the big key issues that's going to get the session done, getting a property tax relief and reform bill that's going to to be, you know, acceptable to everybody if you can.

- Last thing we want is another Measure 4 coming out and taking up a lot of bandwidth for everybody.

- Are you hearing from your local cities and counties and towns about the caps?

- Not so much.

I think they realize, for the most part, I'm hearing from some, but for the most part they recognize that it has to happen to some extent.

Now, what's the right number?

Again, I don't know.

There's a lot of smarter people than me in appropriations that are doing the math and having those discussions.

Having a cap of some sort is absolutely needed.

- And of course, the bill as it's written, has an out that if a local government needs to raise more money, they can opt out, but it has to take a vote of the people on one of the two key voting types, which be general election or primary election.

- Right.

- From what I understand.

- Yeah, and then it would only be good for a certain number of years, I think four, that might change.

- I think that's right.

- But that original is four, so that's, yeah, there is that option.

So I mean, but the bottom line, it has to go through the vote of people to do that, so.

- Besides that, are there any other particular issues that you're watching for in Northwest North Dakota?

- One, actually a big one, 2339.

That's a Senate Bill.

Senator Patton, or no, senator, I can't remember which senator, but I'm a co-sponsor on that.

But it has to deal with wildfire mitigations.

Now, as I was coming here today, I got alerted that there's a wildfire happening in McKenzie County, you know, where I live.

You remember last fall we had probably the worst series of wildfires in recent history.

And from that, this bill, as well as a companion bill, which is a study, is meant to try to figure out, "Okay, how do we make the bill, you know, we had a good response, we had good cooperation.

How do we make it better?"

And for this Senate Bill 2339, it's Senator Kessel.

It was to, let's look at the utility companies, the ones that if there is a down power line or something like that, and that starts a fire, how can we address that?

What kind of plans can they put in place?

What can they implement to mitigate the damage if something like that does happen?

So we are in a conference.

We are in a subcommittee on energy and natural resources.

We had a meeting this morning and we'll have another one tomorrow.

So that's one that's very important to me because that fire, you know, came within a few miles of my home.

It came with, you know, a couple miles of the town of Arnegard.

So, and you know, there was some loss of life.

There's a lot of animals that was lost and a lot of crops and hay were destroyed too.

So those scars will be there for a while.

- And of course we're looking for maybe some moisture to help.

So far that hasn't materialized over North Dakota.

- No, it's pretty dry out there right now, unfortunately.

We could certainly use a good soaking, or a good spring snowstorm to get some of that stuff, you know, get some moisture back in the ground.

- Well, energy and natural resources.

I have to ask you about the data centers, because that seems to be another, it's not really a top of mind issue, but, you know, I'm hearing a lot of discussion about it.

- Yeah, the data centers, think of that, they're large computer banks.

They take a lot of power, generate a lot of heat.

Well, a couple of things we have in Western North Dakota, we have a lot of power through natural gas.

So we could, you know, run our own generators and those things generate a lot of heat and need to be cooled down.

Guess what?

We get a lot of cool months in the year.

So that reduces the need for having to have air conditioning.

So you have that natural air conditioning happening.

And part of the issue with natural gas in the western side of the state is we're quickly, we're probably approaching the point where we won't be able to take away anymore.

We're almost full.

And at some point, they're gonna have to pull back on production so they're not flaring.

So the more we can offload locally, whether it be through a power generation, whether it be through liquification, whether it be through data centers, cryptocurrency mining, anything that we could do to use the natural gas there to consume it there, that's less that we have to try to push down pipelines and away.

- And you've got the two pending projects to bring natural gas from the Bakken to Eastern North Dakota.

- Yes.

I mean those are, you know, that's absolutely something we would love to do 'cause think of all the towns along, not just Fargo and Grand Forks, but all the towns along the line that are currently running on propane, you know, if they could tap into a natural gas mainline, you know, that'd be transformational.

Think of a town that could have a manufacturing plant that it's not economical to do it off with propane, but if they had a natural, if they had natural gas plumbed in, you know, think of the things they could do.

- And that's, I want to go back to that point because Bakken oil has natural gas and there seems to be kind of a ratio that the oil goes down, the natural gas goes up.

No wonder you need some way to offload that gas.

- Yes, you're absolutely right.

There's three parts that when it comes out of the ground, there's three things.

It has oil, you have natural gas, and you have produced water, salt water, brine water, what do you call it.

You have to separate those out.

The production water, that's the waste, we take care of that.

The gas, the oil could go on pipelines and can go on trucks, but the gas has to go on a pipeline.

There's no other way for it to be transported.

So we either consume it on site with maybe some sort of a data center or crypto mining that can handle it on site, use it in some sort of manufacturing, or use it to generate electricity through turbines.

So that's the big part of it.

And it is getting gasier, the ratio of oil to gas is getting more gassy as the Bakken ages.

- And not to put too fine a point on it, but when you get to that point, if you can't get the gas offloaded, well, you're gonna have to cut back on oil production because of the flaring rules.

- Correct, yeah.

The oil and gas, the production company said that they will not, you know, they will not break the flaring wheel.

So is that means they have to pinch back on their production, that means they have to pinch back on production.

You know, that's the last thing we want is to have a decline in production.

But that's also the challenge that we have to overcome is, okay, what are we gonna do about it?

- So how confident are you that maybe some of these pipeline projects might get going and you might be able to offload some of that gas?

- Yeah, I think everybody agrees that needs to happen.

I don't see any naysayers that say, "Hey, we don't need or we don't want it."

The challenge is I think it's gonna happen, it's gonna be with right of way access.

You know, everybody wants it, but they don't want it in their backyard.

So that, yeah.

And, you know, coming from Western North Dakota, you know, there are a lot of wells, there are a lot of pipes, there are a lot of pipelines.

You know, people get fatigued with more and more pipelines going through, whether it be water, natural gas, or whatever.

So that might have, you know, that would probably be one of the biggest challenges.

- Do you have any thoughts about reducing the oil extraction tax for non-Bakken wells?

- Yes, I believe we actually were, that was actually, I don't remember the bill number, but that was one that we actually looked at.

And the idea with that is to encourage exploration outside the core Bakken zone.

Maybe the more conventional wells.

They're not gonna be blowing and going like, like a typical Bakken well, but it could be profitable.

And it's meant to, it's meant to stimulate more exploration in these areas that are not being explored right now.

So if you have a financial incentive for a company to go in there and do it, hey, maybe they might hit the next Bakken zone.

Who knows?

- They might.

And of course, do we talk about Bakken and Three Forks mainly, but there are other formations out there.

Department of Mineral Resources talks about several other formations that have oil.

- Yes.

- And one of the challenges they wanted to do is see if pipelines will come in and do horizontal drilling in more conventional wells, because horizontal was the key to unlock the Bakken.

- Right.

And that's, again, that takes money, that takes capital investment.

And how are we gonna incentivize it, you know?

You know, one of the best ways we could do is provide a tax incentive.

- Okay.

I have a couple other things on some other subjects.

One thing that has been, and looks like it might go finally go forward and it might get finally done, the four-laning of Highway 85.

- I hope so.

(Dave laughs) 85 is one of the busiest roads in the state.

A lot of truck traffic, a lot of white pickups going up and down that road, a lot of agricultural products going up and down that road.

Right now it's four-lane from the Little Missouri bridge by the north unit to Theodore Roosevelt Park up through Williston.

The next step is to bring it to the Highway 200 intersection, which is over by Grassy Butte, and then ultimately down to Belfield and beyond.

- So that's part of that whole idea of a Theodore Roosevelt Expressway too, I assume?

- Yes, yes, it is.

And it is a, you know, having a four-lane makes things a lot safer.

When you have a big convoy of a work over rig and all the ancillary vehicles following it, they go kind of slow.

And you know what, people get a little, people get a little antsy, and they, like, they take some risk and try to pass it.

And then some accidents happen, incidents happen.

- That three-lane idea worked for a while.

But that doesn't solve the problem.

- No, it doesn't solve the problem.

It was a Band-aid on a sucking chest wound, but the four-laning is the answer to it.

- So what about other infrastructure projects?

And I'm thinking that one of the things that's happening with water, NAWS.

- Yes.

- And you're gonna benefit from NAWS, I think.

- Yeah, NAWS and WAWS, the NAWS, that's going up to the Minot area, it's carrying a lot of fresh water up there.

In my area, we have the Southwest Water.

- [Dave] Oh, you do.

- And as well as the Western Area Water Supply.

So those projects are bringing water to areas that you would never have thought that would ever get water.

I mean, think of some areas in Western North Dakota were the last ones to get telephone service, you know, hard line telephone service in the 1970s.

They're now, you know, part of my job last summer was going out, and staking out, and prepping the area to put in drinking water lines with the Western Area Water Supply.

You know, these areas that are so remote are gonna get fresh water.

And again, it comes back to the treasure that we're extracting from the Bakken is paying for that is bringing quality of life to a lot of people.

- Yeah, I was talking to the people at the Water Commission, the water quality people, and they said, "Yeah, we've got this big project that they want to get these things done as soon as they could."

And maybe they'll make some progress this year.

- Yes.

That fund is funded by oil and gas.

So that's part of it.

But also the challenge is with the reduction in the forecast, that's also gonna affect that too.

So the challenging thing about having a one or two industry state is it's hard to recover when one goes down, there's not a lot of other things to balance it out.

That's why, as a state, we are looking for different industries.

Okay.

Hey, at some point, oil is going to peter off a little bit.

Now, you know, if it's a one industry or a two industry state, that's a big deal.

But over the next dozen years or so, if we get a dozen big industries, one dipping is not gonna be a big deal for us.

We have other industries that will take up the slack.

- The applied digitals might be one of those too.

- Aviation, unmanned aerial vehicles, rare earth mineral mining, you know, all sorts of things that we wouldn't have thought about a dozen years ago that are becoming realities now.

And these are things that we have to work on in order to be ready to capitalize 'em in a dozen years.

- You know, I'm fascinated by rare earth minerals.

I've been watching some of the things the Geological Survey has been doing and yeah, there seems to be an opportunity there for North Dakota.

- Well, that too, I mean, China controls probably about 90%.

That's the last thing I heard, about 90% of the world's rare earth minerals.

And we have 'em here in North Dakota.

Now, the great thing about the EERC is that's our research and development arm of North Dakota.

And they found ways to extract 'em through our coal, through the oil and gas processing, or the wastewater processing of that.

Now it's a question of, okay, how do we make it economical?

And again, that's what we invest in the EERC to do, is to find those answers, to find the next thing that's gonna sustain our economy and bring jobs and make us less reliant on one or two industries.

- And we do have lignite coal.

And that's been shown to be a pretty good source for those.

- Yes, yes, it has.

- I have to ask you about one question about financing.

- Okay.

- Is bonding still being talked about?

- It is.

Now, there is maybe a philosophical disagreement between different parts of the leadership on whether or not to use or not.

But it's a tool, like everything else, it's a tool.

Let's use it if it's appropriate.

It may not be appropriate for all things, but for some things, like water projects perhaps that go on for several years, that might be a very appropriate tool.

So I think it's a, I think it's something that probably will be, you know, it's gonna be talked about, and hopefully it'll be implemented in one way or the other.

Can you do it for a state hospital, for example?

- Honestly, I haven't been tracking that particular project, I think it would be good because that's a long-term project.

So, you know, I think that would be, you know, one of the appropriate ways to use bonding.

But again, that's above my pay grade at this point.

So I'm gonna stay in my lane.

- Absolutely.

But there are some things that are going on, but North Dakota, and I'm hearing it from you, North Dakota has a lot of advantages.

There are a lot of things that are happening in North Dakota that if we can unlock the key, so to speak.

- That's what brought people like me back home to North Dakota.

I mean, I left after high school, you know, went the military route, 19 years later came back for the energy industry.

You know, unlocking those keys and bringing those opportunities is what brought people like me, and classmates of mine back home that would never have returned to North Dakota otherwise.

- But bonding is possible for water projects too, if you need it.

- I think so, yeah.

Again, it's a tool.

- That's right.

The Legacy Fund is, you know, there and we can use the profit from the Legacy Fund, that helps.

You've got a Bank of North Dakota, and you can leverage that.

And they're already starting to do that.

You know, some of the legislative.

- Just think of it, the Bank of North Dakota, how unique is that as a tool for a legislature, and for the state to use to manage its finances?

It would never be established today, but the fact that we had it when it was established and we have it as a great tool to use, you know, think of that.

No other state has that.

- You know, we just have a few minutes left, so I'm gonna ask you a couple of questions on some other subjects.

85 mile per hour speed limit, yes or no?

- Yes.

- Okay.

The idea of maybe going a little bit heavier on some of the fines, speeding fines.

- Also yes.

- And especially in construction zones.

- Absolutely.

- And we talked about the idea of maybe going to annual sessions.

Do you like an idea of one session for policy and one session for appropriations, or some kind of thing?

- That's how South Dakota does it.

I think it might be a good model to look at.

I don't know.

I would think something like that.

We can use the time we have, and focus and kind of narrow the focus on one thing or the other.

You know, South Dakota seems to have a good grasp of it.

They seem to be successful with it, so why not give that a shot, you know?

- Are there any other particular issues that are on your radar right now?

- For me, one that I'm working on is Bill 1169.

That's one that I'm a prime sponsor of.

You know, I only sponsored four bills this session and two of them were because of constituents.

So the two that I brought in were veteran-oriented bills.

And this, 1169 is a veteran-oriented bill geared towards disabled veterans.

I'm a disabled veteran.

And often, as time goes on a disabled veteran that sometimes their conditions worsen, and they apply to get a increase in their disability rating and dealing with the VA, it could be arduous.

Getting the paperwork done could be time-consuming.

Now, we have phenomenal veteran services officers at the county level and the state level.

There's a lot of services available that are free.

But often, there could be a, it could be a wait, you could be in the queue for a while.

- [Dave] Sure.

- There are other companies out there that do it for a fee.

Now there are good ones and there are bad ones.

I jokingly call it the Anti-Shark Bill because there are some very ethical companies run by veterans that are gonna help the veteran, put their paperwork together, get everything together.

All right, you send out the VA, the clock starts.

And then there's the unethical ones that will try to get fees up front and all that.

So it's trying to put a box around it.

- And speaking of clock, we have run out of time.

- All right.

- But thank you for your time today.

- My pleasure to be here.

- Our guest today, Representative Jeremy Olson.

He's from Arnegard, North Dakota.

I'm Dave Thompson with Prairie Public.

(exciting music)