foreign [Music] Lakeland Currents your public affairs program for North Central Minnesota.

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More information available at bemidjairport.org Hello again everyone.

I'm Ray Gildow, and you're watching Lakeland Currents and today we're going to talk about natural resources.

We're going to talk about our most important natural resource.

It's not oil, it's not gold, it's not Taylor Swift.

It's fresh water.

And I think we have some really interesting information to give to you, today.

My guests are Bob Karls, who is the chair of the Northern Waters Land Trust board, and Elizabeth Mboutchom.

Is that close enough?

Okay.

And Elizabeth let's start with you.

What's your role with your organization?

What do you do?

I do a lot of educational outreach.

So we do watershed activities at community events and organize workshops with partner organizations to teach about wildlife in our area and just threats to our wildlife and why it's important to protect the land and the water and habitat for them.

What's your background?

What kinds of things have you done before you came into this organization?

My background, I served in the Peace Corps in East Africa, and I worked on forest conservation there, and I worked in stormwater management for a while before moving back to Minnesota to help protect our rivers and lakes here.

And what drew you to this organization?

I like the approach.

It's mission is preserve land to protect water.

So it's focused on the whole picture of everything we do on land affects our water quality and the habitat for the animals that live in the water and on the land around it.

And Bob, what's your background?

My background, I'm a hydrogeologist by training.

So I've worked in the environmental business for over 40 years helping protect our water resources and identifying critical threats to water resources both surface water and groundwater.

And what was your draw to come to this organization, was it still Leech Lake Watershed Foundation when you joined?

It was.

My place up here is near Aitkin, which is in the southeastern portion of our service area that we work in through Northern Waters Land Trust, and I was one of the people who wanted to rebrand us to Northern Waters Land Trust because it's more descriptive of our full area.

What drew me to it was similar to Elizabeth, the mission.

You know it really is a broad mission of protecting land to preserve water.

We have so many different kinds of threats to our water resources in this area that the holistic aspect of what we do was really appealing to me.

In full disclosure, I have been a member of the board for a number of years.

It's my last month of serving on the board, but it's been a wonderful organization to be involved with.

As we all know, our zone that we're sort of focused on, maybe one of you could explain to people what the counties are in the areas that we work.

Well, we generally work in the North Central Minnesota area where there's over 2,000 lakes and thousands of miles of rivers and streams in this area.

So, it's not a really large area in the state, but it's full of water resources.

And how many counties?

We primarily focus on four counties- Hubbard, Crow Wing, Cass, and Aitkin County, as Bob mentioned.

But we do expand beyond that because we work in the watersheds in the area.

So people need to understand if there's information to be sought and they're in another county, they can certainly contact our organization to find out about what we're doing and how we've been doing those kinds of things.

And I think we know pretty well that almost all of our water from Interstate 94 South is impaired to some degree, isn't it?

I think that's a fair thing to say, and we also believe that a lot of our water north of that is still in pretty pristine condition, and what we're going to try to do with the programming that we do is to preserve that so it doesn't get worse.

Is that an accurate statement do you think?

That's pretty darn close, Ray.

One of the small changes I would make to that is in the far northern and northeastern part of the state the water as you said is pretty pristine.

What we've identified is that in the central part of the state, because of land use, because of the intensive recreational use in that area that that water is still good, but it is threatened and so that's the ground that we have to try and preserve.

That's why taking care of something before it is impacted is way easier and cheaper than it is trying to restore something after it's impacted.

To your reference, the agricultural things and other uses in the southern portion of the state are what we're seeing down there, those lakes are impacted.

Heavy phosphorus, greener lakes, warmer lakes, and in the central part of our state we have that opportunity, we have that window to make a difference in protecting and preserving what we have before it becomes so severely impacted that we have to do restoration, which takes longer and is more expensive.

I know in one of the programs I did in the past we talked about phosphorus in Leech Lake, and people are curious and, well, we don't have any agriculture around Leech Lake.

How is that happening?

And it's coming from the Red River Valley, North Dakota, drifts off the fields into our lakes and rivers into northern Minnesota, which is showing all the more importance of taking care of that soil before it gets over here.

So in the general terms, when people join this board, what is it that they're doing?

How do they help?

What's their involvement?

If you're just a brand new person coming on board here with Northern Waters Land Trust.

On our board of directors?

Yes.

They're doing three things- one is they're contributing their time and effort.

We have people on our board who are not environmental people by training, they're attorneys, they're people from accounting backgrounds, things like that, but they're bringing their time and their contributing second thing is their skills.

We need a lot of different perspectives on the board.

We need diversity on our board.

So bringing different things to the board is very important.

And then I would say that the third thing is that they bring their passion.

If we have a board member who isn't passionate about helping to protect and preserve, they're probably in the wrong place.

So, those are the three elements really that people bring to our board.

And who would you identify as critical partners that you work with?

We have a lot of partners.

I mean that is the absolute key to success in conservation.

We work with the county governments like the Soil and Water Conservation Districts.

We work with the state DNR.

We also work with federal agencies like the Forest Service and the Fish and Wildlife Service.

We work with lake associations, of course.

They're a huge partner in this and lots of other non-profit organizations in the area and different wildlife groups as well.

Do you do any lobbying?

No, we are not a lobby group.

So do you work with lobbyists?

No we don't.

No.

Okay so if the DNR wants to get money for land or something, that's pretty much on their own and then we can work with them after the fact if it's something like preserving some shoreland or something like that.

Correct.

The act of what I would call lobbying, going to legislators and trying to convince them to fund something or whatever, we certainly have relationships with government officials, but we're not a lobbying organization.

That actually is a separate legal registration if you're going to be an active lobbyist, and that's not a role that we've identified for ourselves.

So it's fair to say that it's a pretty non-political organization.

What is a land trust?

Could you just briefly describe what a land trust is because we are a land trust and people need to know what that is.

Well, a land trust is an organization that manages lands and conserves lands, and so what we do is we identify lands that need to be protected.

And there's two main ways that we do that.

One is through conservation easements where a landowner can protect the land from future development, and the other one is through acquisitions where the land is then acquired and then we transfer it over to a government agency to manage, like the DNR or the Forest Service.

And what are some of the projects that we've been involved with?

Well, a recent one that we could talk about is the Cedar Lake Wildlife Management Area.

And we have a map about that.

We do.

Cedar Lake is located both in Aitkin and Crow Wing counties, and it's a designated cold water lake.

It has the right habitat to host a species called tullibe or cisco.

And a lot of people have heard of them, a lot of people have never seen one or haven't fished for them.

They're a smaller fish, a little bit more like a white fish.

They're a little bit oilier.

They're an incredibly important food species for not only walleyes and northerns and muskies, but also for loons as both the resident loons and the ones that migrate through during the seasonal migration of loons.

And so Cedar Lake was identified as one of our targeted lakes in our cold water program, and there was an opportunity with a 46 acre parcel on that lake which would happen to be adjacent to an existing Wildlife Management Area to preserve it and protect it, continuing our theme of preserving and protecting.

And it was adjacent to an existing Wildlife Management Area which made it particularly attractive because then we expanded that area into something that becomes even more critical for wildlife.

They need acres.

If you have a one acre Wildlife Management Area, it's not going to be very functional because it can't host many species.

This one already had that aspect of adjacency so it made sense.

We used our grant funds that we got through Lessard-Sams, to add it to that existing Wildlife Management Area and to protect over 1600 feet of shoreline from development, which can negatively impact the temperature of the water, the runoff into the lake, those kinds of characteristics.

I don't think the average person understands the value of shoreland for spawning fish and other aquatic animals, but it's just really, really critical.

And I know we've had a couple of big projects on Leech Lake, in Miller's Bay, where we've protected spawning areas for muskies, and it's probably the last place you would think of a muskie going in, and I don't know if you've ever been in Miller's Bay.

It's pretty shallow, and it's not a place where you think of a spawning area.

But it's one of the prime spots where the DNR do their netting in the fall or in the spring to see what their numbers are looking like.

They actually harvest eggs in Miller's Bay.

Yeah, and it was identified by the DNR, I believe sometime in the 1970s, and that Miller's Bay Area actually, I believe, provides all of the muskie roe for the reproduction program that the DNR manages.

I think you're correct.

It's an incredibly productive area, and it had just the right habitat.

So one of our projects there, we've done three now I believe on Miller's Bay, is when there's a piece of land that's available, either through a conservation easement or through a direct acquisition, we've been able to protect and enhance that spawning area for muskies to allow our DNR to continue harvesting those eggs way into the future.

It's not illegal for people to take a certain amount of vegetation out in front of their cabins, but the more that they can leave there, the more valuable that is for fish especially, that's really important.

Just can you walk us through just really briefly how that Miller project became an idea from a landowner to becoming preserved?

Can you kind of summarize that?

I'm asking a lot.

Sure.

I know you can do a lot, but...

There's a couple of key steps -one is working with our partners that Elizabeth talked about earlier in helping to identify key parcels.

So we met with the DNR, we met with people on Leech Lake, to identify what key habitats were available or necessary to protect and preserve right now.

So identifying it, and that's part of the science that we do.

We have a system using geographic information systems and other tools to look at where those critical parcels are.

The second thing is outreach.

So, Elizabeth maybe you want to talk a little bit about our outreach activities on our projects.

We reach out to people in the area directly to let them know that the area is primed for protection and why it needs to be protected, to gauge interest.

And it requires landowners and lake associations as well to just kind of jump in and lend a hand on these organizations, both for raising funds for these projects, the willingness of landowners to put in the easements or participate in an acquisition.

We also rely a lot on donations from people throughout Minnesota and grant funding from the state, too.

It's just a lot of different pieces that have to come together to make one of these projects happen.

We talk about watersheds.

I know that's something you folks wanted to talk about.

Tell us about what a watershed really is.

Absolutely, and I'll use Cedar Lake as the example again.

People, when we think about a watershed of a lake, many people think of the land that's right on the lakeshore, and that is very important.

It has a tremendous impact on the water quality in that lake.

But a watershed is the area surrounding the lake that drains into it.

All of us, every human being in the world, maybe not some people in Phoenix as we've discussed.

But everyone lives in a watershed of something, and I'm just being facetious, people in Phoenix do as well.

But in the case of Cedar Lake, that watershed extends up to two and a half to three miles away from the lake itself through the streams and tributaries that feed into it.

And our watershed based approach looks at all of that area and prioritizes everything in the watershed for possible protection and preservation because all of it impacts the water quality in our lakes and in our rivers as well.

The Mississippi, people know about the dead zone in the Mississippi down off of the Gulf of Mexico.

That's a result of everything that happens upstream of that.

So it's thousands of miles.

That's a big scale.

Our scale is a little bit tighter.

It's the watersheds around our targeted lakes.

I had the opportunity to fish on a lake this fall over by Crosby, and it was green.

The surface was green, and we dropped cameras down 20 feet - it was green all the way down to the bottom, and we had customers trying to fish and I'm sure that a fish looking for a minnow could only see about that far.

And I mean that was not, that's an example I guess of...

I'm not sure what it was because I've not ever seen it that, I've seen surface issues, but not all the way down.

It's not usually in this part of the state.

So that's a lake that's been impacted by something.

We could talk more specifically about where that lake is in its watershed, but probably a phosphorus loading to that lake caused it to go that far.

And that's a good example of what we talked about earlier.

To restore that lake is going to be very difficult.

It's going to cost a lot more money, and it's not going to get it back to the way that it originally was.

So that's why protection is important.

When we can identify those opportunities, you know, that lake's been impacted.

I don't want to spend a lot of time on this but how would, if you had a smaller lake, two, three thousand acres, that's impaired, what are some things that people do to try to get that back to a more pristine nature?

The first thing would be to begin assessing the watershed and understand why it has that characteristic.

So where are the pollutants coming from.

Where are they coming from, where are the nutrients?

If it's green it's probably a nutrient issue and how are they getting into the lake, what's that.

And then work with the other stakeholders.

Elizabeth talked about stakeholders earlier.

So Soil and Water Conservation District is a great entity in each county to work with.

They do marvelous work and are a tremendous resource for the users of the land, either forestry or agriculture or others, to help them understand the steps that those people can take and help explain and give them the tools to take those actions to bring the water coming in back.

The water that's already in the lake, that's impacted and the sediments in there, it's too late.

Yeah, wow.

You wanted to talk a little bit about some of your other projects.

Is there something you'd like to highlight, some of the things you've been doing?

Well, in addition to the Clean Water Critical Habitat Project, we now have expanded our work this summer, and this year, and we're to more lakes, called Lakes of Biological Significance, which are lakes that have unique plants or animals that have sustaining populations.

So again, as Bob was saying, you know when you have a healthy lake, you want to keep it that way.

So we're focusing our efforts on prioritizing these lakes, and doing conservation around them to keep them in good condition before they become impaired.

And we've recently added as well a new carbon sequestration project, which is looking at the forests and the trees and how it can hold carbon to help keep the air cleaner and also to filter water.

And looking at that as part of land management practices.

That really is cutting edge stuff.

It's very new.

It's a pilot project, and we're actually sending out a lot of surveys to landowners.

So if people receive a survey in the mail please fill it out and send it back to us because we're trying to gauge interest and figure out what this type of project would look like.

How do you measure carbon levels in a bog?

How's that done?

They look at the, they assess the biomass in that particular area, and then understand if it's something that is going to be sequestered or held in that area or whether it goes into carbon and is simply re-released.

So a bog as your example -a lot of that material, a lot of that carbon is going actually back into the atmosphere as the material decays.

In the case of a tree that Elizabeth picked out, you know, something that our forestry groups like.

If that tree can be grown, it's sequestering carbon while it grows, and if it's used for building products, like lumber or something else, it stays sequestered.

You know the two by four in my house is still the two by four in my house, it's still there.

So a sustainable forestry is an element of carbon sequestration.

People always think, well then they want to protect everything, and we can't do anything.

That's not the case.

Sustainable forestry is a good thing, and it's important to Minnesota, our economy and our forest lands and good for stewardship.

And management is one of those elements, and that's why we work with our partners on doing that.

I know we're not going to get into how people do conservation easements today necessarily, but if a person owns property around a lake, in a watershed, is there a minimum amount of acreage that they have to have to get involved with us?

We'd like to target 20 acres.

The amount of effort and the legal documents and other things necessary to put it into effect take some time and money.

20 acres is sort of our target where we'd like to consider properties for a conservation easement.

And from 1995 to 2022, this year, there are 92 projects completed.

And do you know off the top of your head how much lakeshore that is?

How many?

I want to say it's like over 240,000 feet of shoreline.

Wow.

It's on our website the exact footage.

That's really significant and looking at this map it goes all the way from Leech Lake to Federal Dam over to well Breezy Point even down on Pelican Lake, which was a fantastic walleye lake this summer by the way, and Backus.

I mean there's projects across this whole area, and people can see where they are by going to our website which is Northernwaterslandtrust.org.

Northernwaterslandtrust.org.

And if they want to make contributions, they can also find information about that there.

I mean we're not out of time here, I'm not saying that, but you're never turning down contributions.

So how would it, how would a typical project get started?

If it's a landowner that's got some land, how would they start that process?

They can reach out to us to inquire about what their options are.

We have a lot of information available for them to explain the different options and how they work, and then they can talk to their financial advisors and their families to decide which option is best for them.

And then at that point we can move forward with them and help them work through the different steps.

And if for some reason one of our programs and our funding sources doesn't work, we could always find another organization for them since we're familiar with our partners and their programs and find perhaps another organization that could help them with their conservation needs.

I think some people have the idea that if you put some property into a conservation easement it's not usable.

That's not the case at all.

Would you talk a little bit about that, how that works, if they do a conservation easement?

With an easement a person continues to have their property and use it as they're using it now.

That doesn't change.

What it does is it locks it in and prevents it from any future development or major development.

So especially if a land is in an area where there's a lot of threats from development, a lot of building going on, or agricultural expansion, they can lock that in to say we can't change the use of this land.

It has to continue for future generations to be used no matter who owns it.

I'm looking at two projects in the greater area here without getting into specifics.

One of them was around the lake, and they're looking at 40 or 50 units to be built around this lake, which is affecting that watershed significantly.

It's always an argument, isn't it, between development and jobs.

It seems like it.

Seems like it's always the argument.

Yeah.

And we can find ways to help solve that.

So Elizabeth talked about protecting that land.

We work with many landowners who will come in with a 100 acre parcel or 200 acre parcel within a key watershed, and we'll carve out 10 acres that they can use for future building or their kids cabins or something else, and we'll protect and preserve the balance of it.

That's a workable situation.

The best thing is to start that conversation as Elizabeth said.

Give us a call, talk to us about what your particular situation is, and we'll see if there's a solution that's a win-win for everyone, for the environment and for the landowner to be a successful conservation project.

I've got another map here I'm just going to look at.

What is this circled here?

Well, that's Cedar Lake, too.

That's one of the Cedar Lake Projects.

That's the parcel we protected, and so on that map, though you can see the colors, that's part of our scoring mechanism.

When we look at all of the ecological factors, the location, the red spots, the yellow spots, and even the green spots, you know, they all reflected a weighted scoring so that we can help prioritize where we're taking action on parcels within our watersheds.

And if we could just talk in a little bit, too, about how is a lake determined to be biologically significant?

What's kind of the standard for that?

Well it has to do with a variety of factors, but it could be fish, it could be waterfowl, it could be any number of plants or anything that survives in that lake and it has like a healthy population to where it's, you know, surviving on its own without help.

And we want to protect that.

And generally it's identified as a priority because in other places those plants or fish are not able to survive on their own and they need assistance, if they exist at all.

And so we want to look at the lakes where they have healthy populations and keep that environment for them.

Could you just talk a little bit about our association with the Loon Center, the loon projects that are going about?

Yes.

This summer we started working and collaborating with the National Loon Center, which is based out of Crosslake, and we developed a loon workshop to learn more about Minnesota loons and threats to the loons and just things that everybody can do to help protect our loons.

And so we offered some workshops with them and going out on their floating classroom to see loons with the researchers and learn about them.

So it's a very exciting endeavor, and we plan to do more of that next year.

I think that Loon Center is expected to be completed in about two years.

Right.

I think that's about it.

And Minnesota still is one of the largest areas of loons in the Upper Midwest if I'm not mistaken.

That's correct.

I think we have the largest population in the lower 48.

Yeah, that's pretty cool.

Is there anything else that we need to share with people before we sign off?

We've got about a minute left.

You know I think involvement and participation is key.

So understanding things that we all can take, actions we all can take, to help protect and preserve our watersheds, even if it's not through one of these projects we're talking about.

You know just how we use the land, how we handle materials and things like that.

That's the underlying thing that all of us can be effective in doing.

You know having folks reach out to us and engage with us in finding out what they could do or if they're interested in one of our programs.

Yeah, we're always looking for volunteers and to get involved with our outreach efforts and other things, so if people are interested in helping out they can reach out to us to see what way they can contribute.

And then, as Bob was saying, each and every person can make a difference.

I mean it's what you do in your yard, it's what you do in your home even, affects our water resources and our wildlife.

So we can all make a difference just by learning and knowing.

You know, I think a lot of people thought Lake Mead would be there forever, and if you've been watching any of the news reports it's unbelievable how much that's gone down, and we even know from Minnesota, from a couple years of drought, where we think we've got water forever, it may not be that way, and we need to really take care of it.

Exactly.

Bob and Elizabeth, thank you for jumping on board with us.

It's really interesting information.

Our headquarters are in Walker.

Yes.

But the best way to get a hold of you is through our website and through the phone numbers and the website.

Would that be fair to say?

Fair enough.

All right.

Thanks a lot.

Thank you, Ray.

You've been watching Lakeland Currents.

I'm Ray Gildow.

So long until next time.