- [Speaker] This is a production of WEDU PBS, Tampa, St. Petersburg, Sarasota.

- [Narrator] Coming up next, a deadly shootout in Ybor City brings calls for reform.

Governor DeSantis' poll numbers drop.

Is anti-Semitism on the rise in Florida amid war in the Middle East?

And as Florida Republicans celebrate freedom this week, how free are we?

All this and more coming next on "Florida This Week."

(bright music) (bright music continues) - Welcome back.

I'm Eric Deggans, TV critic and media analyst with NPR.

And a former Tampa Bay Times staffer, filling in for Rob Lorei this week.

Our panelists are Deborah Tamargo, the immediate past President of the Florida Federation of Republican Women.

Victor DiMaio is the President and CEO of DiMaio and Associates, and a Democrat.

Tara Newsom is an attorney and political science professor at St. Petersburg College.

And Janelle Irwin Taylor is President of Summit Communication Strategies and a former political journalist.

Welcome everybody.

- Thanks.

- Welcome!

- So in the wake of last weekend's deadly mass shootings in Tampa's Ybor City, one Tampa City Council member suggested that businesses in the entertainment district be required to shut down earlier, at 1:00 AM instead of 3:00.

But that proposal received lots of pushback at Thursday's City Council meeting from bar owners and employees, fearing it would reduce their revenue and income.

Community members criticized the move as a knee-jerk reaction that would do little to address the root causes of gun violence.

The public comment came after two people, a 14-year-old boy and a 20-year-old man were killed from gunshots, and at least a dozen more were wounded last weekend.

- [Speaker 1] According to the Tampa Bay Times, the shooting began just before 3:00 AM last Sunday morning along East Seventh Avenue in Ybor City.

While the entertainment district was packed with people, many in Halloween costumes.

A man was arrested on one count of second-degree murder with a firearm in connection with a 14-year-old's death.

The suspect told investigators, he got into an altercation with a group of men and feared for his life when he fired shots randomly.

- So, Victor, there are a lot of ideas for what city officials and local officials can do to respond to this shooting.

You were there at the City Council meeting.

Tell us a little bit about what happened there and what are the good ideas out there for how to respond to this?

- Well, in the interest of full disclosure, I do represent a lot of the restaurants and business owners in Ybor.

So I did go and spend eight hours at City Council yesterday during the testimony and the debate.

And with all due respect, everybody felt sorry for the kid that passed away.

But closing the bars at 1:00 AM would not bring that kid back.

And Ybor City, look, I was born and raised in Ybor City.

My mom and dad were born and raised in Ybor City.

My grandparents were cigar makers in Ybor City.

So Ybor City to me is the heart and soul of Tampa.

And the historical aspect of it is unique.

But the fact is that these, one of my clients would've lost, if they closed from 1:00 to 3:00 AM, they would've lost half a million dollars of business for themselves.

And each of those bartenders and waitresses and barbacks and all, they would've lost $200 each.

That a lot of these are single moms raising a family.

That's their income.

It would've been hard on them too.

And we actually, it was very quickly, but the time we found out that Gwen Henderson, who represents East Tampa and Ybor City, came up with this idea, and I think it was in combination with the Mayor's Office as well.

And there's a gentleman who's invested a lot of money, named Darryl Shaw in Ybor City, hundreds of millions of dollars, in fact.

He came out with an op-ed saying we should close at 1:00.

But the thing is, if you close Ybor at one o'clock, those people are gonna go somewhere.

They could end up at Soho at MacDinton's, you're creating another problem that they're going to regret later.

Or they could go back to St. Pete, where they just went from 2:00 AM to 3:00 AM to open.

So there were, at the end of the day, sometimes a knee-jerk reaction to, and actually, Congressman Carlson, to his credit, I mean, he really tried to nail the Police Chief down on really what happened.

They couldn't, because it's an active investigation.

It just happened a few days ago.

They didn't know if the kids were drunk, they were in a gang, who initially...

There was a lot of unanswered questions for them to make this drastic decision.

So at the end of the day, they all said, "Look, we're gonna go to Ybor this weekend because Ybor is gonna suffer.

They've suffered through COVID, like a lot of the other businesses."

- [Eric] Sure, sure.

- And this wasn't gonna help.

- Yeah, and there was some indication, I think, during that City Council meeting that it might be illegal to try to do that anyway.

- Yes.

- So, Deb, I wanted to ask you.

Governor DeSantis has proposed some ideas.

He's talked about increasing resources to police, or institutionalizing people with mental issues more quickly.

What do you think about some of the ideas he's floated and is there any appetite for gun control legislation here?

- Well, there's no appetite for gun control, I can tell you that.

But I was in Ybor on Saturday evening.

I left Ybor about nine o'clock in the evening.

When we arrived at Ybor, in fact, I had seen Victor earlier in the evening.

And I was remarking to my cousins, we were having dinner at the Columbia, "How peaceful, how wonderful."

It was a combination of tourists and locals just meandering around enjoying themselves in Ybor.

The weather was beautiful, the full moon.

But what has repeatedly happened in Ybor is the underage drinking and the gangs.

So I think that's the root problem.

Get to that and we can continue to enjoy everything that Ybor offers.

- To answer your question, yes.

Since I do a lot of licensing for restaurants, the permits go till 3:00 AM.

So if you go from 3:00 AM to 1:00, there's no real legal method of doing that.

And it takes two or three hearings to actually implement that.

So yes, at the end of the day, there was discussion, as Deborah says, about go.. After Parker, we did pass gun control measures here in Florida.

And that came up during the discussion as well.

Well, there's a lot of guns on the street.

One of these guns were stolen illegally.

Sadly, one kid was just walking down the street, got shot and killed, and he had nothing to do with the - - [Eric] Right, exactly.

- He had three bullets in him, and he had nothing to do with the kill.

- Well, I mean, and you bring up an interesting point.

So Janelle, I wanted to ask you about this.

I mean, Ybor City has often been a turbulent area.

It's been a place that draws people to come and have a good time.

And it's been that way for quite a long time.

What is an incident like this say about the future of Ybor and its status as a destination for people who wanna celebrate and party and have a good time?

- Well, sadly, this is obviously Ybor city that we're talking about.

But there are any number of places where something like this has occurred.

And if you look to those places, Orlando with Pulse, Colorado Springs with the shooting that they had there, these types of incidents, they happen and people recover.

There's a sense of community that kind of breaks down barriers in these tragic types of situations, where communities come together with, they might not have the same ideas on how to fix problems, but they know that the problem needs to be fixed.

So that togetherness, I think, helps with the healing process and Ybor will come out just fine.

- So, Tara, I wanted to ask you quickly, the families and one of the victims, and even the Mayor of Tampa has talked about some kind of gun control legislation.

What do you think about that idea in a state where, as Deb pointed out, there's not a lot of appetite for tackling those kinds of.. - I don't necessarily respectfully agree.

I think that we have polling that shows that most Americans and Floridians want reasonable gun regulation.

And that there is a balance between honoring the Second Amendment and the public space re-regulated.

I think that there's a lot of individuals that are looking at red flag laws, laws that allow authorities to temporarily take away guns from people that can do harm as a bridge builder between those two sides, gun advocates and those that want to keep the public square a little bit more safe.

And so I think that we're really need to build bridges between those two groups, and we should be looking at policy solutions that can honor both sides of the fence.

- Well, we're hearing a lot of good ideas here, but we're gonna have to move on to our next story idea.

A new Des Moines register, NBC News poll in Iowa, finds former President Donald Trump still has a big lead in the race for the Republican nomination.

- [Speaker 1] Among those likely to take part in the Iowa Caucuses on January 15th, Trump is at 43%, with Ron DeSantis and Nikki Haley tied for second place at 16%.

Trump has a 27-point lead over both, which is actually bigger than his lead in August in the same poll.

Haley, the former South Carolina governor, has risen in the polls by 10 points in the last three months.

DeSantis has slipped by three points.

And in another poll by Morning Consult, the survey shows Ron DeSantis is one of the 10 least-liked governors in the United States.

According to Florida politics, DeSantis is above water in Florida, but nowhere near his re-election victory margin.

While a slim majority of respondents at 51% approve of DeSantis, he has a 45% disapproval rating here in Florida.

- So Deb, I wanted to start with you.

What did these poll results tell us about DeSantis' bid for the Presidency?

And does it seem that he's much less popular with Republicans outside of the state than he is in Florida?

- Well, I think that he's being overshadowed by Trump.

Every time there is a hearing or an indictment, you have more people flocking to Donald Trump.

So I think that's where the imbalance comes, because of the unfairness of it all and the political nature of all of the indictments and the charges and so forth.

So I think people, you root for the little guy, you root for the Rangers to win the World Series, 'cause they'd never won before.

So you're really rooting for Donald Trump to be that person that beats the political system, okay?

So put that away.

In all of the polls throughout the country, when they ask for second choice, take Donald Trump, he's not, he's decided to move to, wherever, Majorca.

And Ron DeSantis rises and he becomes President.

So we just had a national poll at our National Federation of Republican Women.

Who was your first choice for President?

It was Donald Trump.

But then we also said, "Take him out.

Who's your choice for President?"

It was Ron DeSantis.

When you take the average of the polls, they have Nikki Haley surging in some polls, but when you take the average, it's still Ron DeSantis.

So he's in Iowa now.

We'll see where that turns out.

I think it's gonna be favorable because he's walking the precincts, he's meeting the people in the Caucuses.

He is a serious person.

We're living an extremely serious time.

His background, he was just an average kid grew up, worked hard, earned himself scholarships, went to the war when he did not need to.

So he's been in theater, engaged in war.

He understands how serious that is.

You cannot play with war.

He is also run a huge state.

We're bigger than most countries.

- [Eric] Certainly, certainly.

I understand that.

- So I think, - But there are some questions here, - That will rise to the surface.

- There are some questions here, particularly about what these poll numbers say about his popularity locally in the state of Florida.

Janelle, what do you think these poll numbers tell us about how he's doing in Florida?

- Well, anybody who tries to say that Florida is still a purple state, I think is mistaken.

We have become a red state.

And voter registration numbers bear that out.

So with that in mind, I think that as governor, he still remains popular in Florida.

I don't think that he has been hurt.

I think the bigger question is going to come after 2024, when he still has an administration to wrap up.

And what is the post-Presidential election Ron DeSantis gonna look like in Tallahassee?

Is he going to have this kind of unfettered support among the legislature to carry his agenda and sort of hold his water?

I think if you see him drop out of the race or whatever happened, which I firmly believe that's what's gonna happen, unless Donald Trump, for whatever reason, removes himself from contention, I think that we're gonna see an entirely different Ron DeSantis that has much less power because people aren't going to be quite so beholden to him.

That's my crystal ball, if I have one.

- Well, well, Tara, I wanted to ask you.

DeSantis has begun to criticize Trump a little more directly.

He's starting to push back a little more against the front-runner.

Is that too little, too late?

Does that make a difference for him?

- I don't think it makes any difference.

I think the Florida blueprint that DeSantis took out to the country came back rejected.

That's why his polling numbers are so low.

And now Florida's starting to look at DeSantis through the eyes of the nation and say, "Hey, we are being perceived as hostile civil rights, hostile to intellectual thought."

And so it's just too late for DeSantis to remake his campaign in that way.

And I think some of these polling numbers are really a result of the fact that America's looking at him using Florida as a puppet.

And that we're just a part of his presidential campaign.

And then unless he comes back and deals with difficult issues like home insurance and climate change and affordable housing, that he's gonna have bigger problems than whether he's wearing high heels or not.

I wear high heels.

I like him.

I don't think that's on brand for him or not, but I do think he's got bigger problems than just Donald Trump.

- I think his whole strategy's gonna come to an end real soon.

I just think his whole strategy to move as far to the right as humanly possible, to try to out-flank Trump was a huge failure.

There's billionaire supporters in the Republican Party who thought the six-week abortion ban was overreach.

It's the same thing that even Newt Gingrich did when the Republican Party went too far to the right and the Democrats came back in.

Look, if you've been in politics like I've had, for 40-plus years, the pendulum obviously swings back and forth.

So DeSantis had his day.

He's definitely, there's no question in my mind, he's on the downswing.

Janelle mentioned it, when they come back after he clearly is gonna lose in Iowa, and New Hampshire, we don't know what this wounded duck's gonna look like.

And I think the legislator's aren't gonna roll over and do what the heck he wants anymore, I think.

And that's where they're gonna see what happens then.

- Okay.

Well, obviously, we're gonna be talking about this for a while.

So let's move on to our next topic.

The head of Florida State University system, Ray Rodrigues, has ordered the campus chapters of Students for Justice in Palestine to shut down, according to an October 24th letter to university presidents.

The directive he wrote was issued "In consultation with Governor DeSantis."

- [Speaker 1] The letter said it's a felony under Florida law to "knowingly provide material support to a designated foreign terrorist organization."

Noting that the national SJP has affirmatively identified with Hamas' October 7th terrorist attack on Israel.

The SJP has chapters on the USF Tampa campus and at the University of Florida in Gainesville.

The chancellor cited SJP's Day of Resistance toolkit, a document outlining advice and tips for campus chapters planning to host protests in support of Palestinians.

The toolkit describes Hamas' attack on Israel as the resistance.

And in a section advising SJP chapters on how to frame discussions about the conflict, states, "We as Palestinian students in exile are part of this movement, not in solidarity with this movement."

But the Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression, a group supporting the Palestinian students, says the students do not provide any material support to Hamas, just "rhetorical hyperbole."

DeSantis recently posted to X, formerly known as Twitter, that "If elected President, any international student found protesting in support of a terrorist group, will be stripped of their visas and deported."

- So Janelle, I'm coming to you.

I know this is a tough question.

But is it fair to say that the Students for Justice in Palestine are supporting terrorism, particularly through this Day of Resistance toolkit?

And even if they are, is it fair to try to disband these groups?

- I'm gonna spin a little here.

I think what's unfair is painting everyone with the same brush.

I think that there are probably no doubt, students within those groups, that are supporting, in some way, Hamas, which is a terrorist organization.

But I think that a lot of the students, you may find, and we saw this with the controversy surrounding Harvard, some of these students, they may not realize that what they say is supporting Hamas.

I think there is a difference between saying, "Hamas is doing the right thing," and saying "Palestine should be free."

Because you can think that what Hamas is doing is terrible and that the loss of life is absolutely atrocious and still think that a two-state solution or something like that should exist.

They're not mutually exclusive.

So to paint it with the same brush, that's what I think is unfair.

I think education, these are universities, I think education is the answer to the students who are supporting Hamas for real.

Have that conversation with them and say, "Look, it's one thing to support Palestine, it's another thing to support terrorists."

- So Tara, I wanted to ask you, I mean, you're an educator, you deal with these issues.

Aren't colleges supposed to be a place where we have unfettered debate and we talk about uncomfortable issues?

What's happening here?

- Freedom of expression has always been the bedrock of our democracy.

It's been a part of the American experience.

We used to look at universities and colleges as sanctuaries for competing thoughts.

And we actually thought it was healthy.

Healthy for pluralism, healthy for us to understand each other, develop empathy, and then policy to flow from it.

And I think it's a real shame that we've now sterilized these institutions to be able to have this competing thoughts that might bring about understanding and peace, which is what everyone really wants.

But I think that this has something to do more with Governor DeSantis.

And this could be a little peek into what kind of President he would be, and how he would respond to these kind of conflicts and it smacks of authoritarianism.

- So Deb, I wanted to ask you, there's been concern about, of course, a rise of anti-Semitic incidents across the country, and even in Florida.

And there's also been concern about a rise in incidents, hate crimes against Muslims and against people from the Arab world.

How do we draw a line between the free and fair expression and then the kinds of statements that might encourage terrorism or encourage anti-Semitism or Islamophobia?

- And I think that, you pretty much hit the nail on the head, and it's what is encouraging violence?

What are the plans, the plots, the secret meetings and so forth?

Unfortunately the Palestine people made a decision by electing, selecting Hamas to be their leader in Gaza.

And Israel took a hands-off after 3,000 years, took a hands-off off of that territory, and look what it led to.

It emboldened Hamas, and they slaughtered people, innocent people, and beheaded babies and children.

They took hostages of children.

So I think that you have to separate the legal protests, the rational, the deliberative speaking and so forth, from those that will occupy your Halls of Congress that will block traffic and jump on your cars like we've seen happen even in Temple Terrace.

So I think you have to separate it, you have to tap that down.

I think that's what's happening right now, so that that does not escalate.

- All right, well we've run outta time for this segment.

We're gonna have to move on.

The Florida Republican Party is holding what it calls the 2023 Florida Freedom Summit in Kissimmee this weekend, with all the major Republican presidential candidates scheduled to speak, including Governor DeSantis and former President Trump.

- [Speaker 1] The forum is designed to showcase the ways the state has advanced individual freedom.

But it also comes at a time when Florida's being criticized for removing books from school shelves, limiting the teaching of Black history, and banning diversity initiatives.

The summit comes after the state cut off all connections with the American Library Association, the nation's oldest library organization after the group took a stand against book bans in Florida and around the country.

- So Tara, this Freedom Summit is taking place in a state that has been criticized for limiting how Black history is taught, for removing books from schools.

Is there a certain irony here?

I mean.. - Well, first off, freedom doesn't belong to a party, right?

It belongs to each of us individually.

And so if you use freedom as a concept to mask caging liberties, everybody can see what that is.

And I think that's what you're alluding to.

That the ultra conservative legislative agenda in the state of Florida is anything but free.

And the reason why DeSantis' polling numbers are plummeting is because they're seeing that Florida is less free than it was before DeSantis was governor.

We have a less ability to talk about diversity, equity, and inclusion on college campuses.

We are a revisionist history on African-American studies.

We have a limited ability for children to access books.

And I think that's what's so interesting with the American Library Association.

They have an American Library Association Bill of Rights that says everyone should have access to information no matter what age.

That is being seen as not free.

That's the very place where most of us seek refuge and information.

And I think that's what the country's really looking at in their assessment of whether Florida's free.

- Okay, Vic, we got one minute.

Now, this is an event that's gonna host Ron DeSantis and former President Trump.

What do you think is gonna happen when these two guys show up in the same place?

And is there gonna be some pressure on DeSantis to take on Trump in a way that he hasn't before?

- Well, that actually does remain to be seen.

You're right.

Yeah, that's a very good point.

I'm gonna pull out the popcorn and see who attacks each other.

But because actually, Trump's famous for calling names of people that he doesn't like and to demean them and push 'em down in the polls.

So, it's gonna be very, and then there was a story here, that Trump is going after DeSantis' home base.

Trump is a Florida resident.

He lives here.

And he's gonna go after Trump's individual supporter, excuse me, Trump is going after DeSantis individual supporters and get them for himself.

So that's gonna be the fun of watching this game over the weekend, I think, personally.

- All right.

Well, before we go, we always like to ask our panelists, what other news stories should we be paying attention to?

So Deb, I'm gonna start with you.

What's your story of the week?

- Well, for those of you that knew Mel Sembler, you are certainly grieving this week.

He passed away.

He was a healthy 93-year-old vigorous pillar of the community, one of the most generous people that you could possibly get to know in your community.

A developer of many community squares.

He was certainly a politician, he was a Conservative, he was a man of family values, a charitable man.

He started the Drug-Free Alliance.

They put a lot of money and attention into things like fentanyl, human trafficking and so forth.

So we have just lost the most amazing person and God bless his family.

- Thank you for that tribute.

Janelle, what's your story of the week?

- So November 20th, Donald Trump is going to be appearing at a fundraiser with Gus Bilirakis, who is a local Congressman here in the Tampa Bay area.

I think what's interesting to watch about this is how it affects politics in general.

What are the optics going to be when you have a popular former President among Conservatives who is also facing a mountain of legal troubles.

So, is that going to feed the Conservative base?

Is it going to have any negative impacts on Bilirakis, as he's looking towards his next election?

So I think there's some interesting takeaways to watch with that.

- All right, Tara.

- I think the story is behind the polling numbers.

Right now we see Biden and Donald Trump neck-and-neck.

But I think the real story is whether we're gonna see many of those voters actually come out and vote.

There seems to be a great deal of apathy and despondency with our voters, especially in the Democratic Party.

Republicans have done a much better job riling up their voters and get out the vote efforts.

And so I'm really watching to see what the next 2024 elections are really gonna look like and what that's gonna mean about the Democratic Party's ability to get out the vote.

- Okay, Vic, this is your challenge.

10 seconds.

What do you got?

- As a Democrat, to me, it's insurance, insurance, insurance.

The legislature's meeting for another one of their, I dunno, five to six special session to try to solve, as someone whose family was in the insurance business, I worked for the Insurance Commissioner's Office.

I can tell you what's happened now since the Republicans have super control of the legislature of the House, the Senate, the government manager, the insurance company has gotten everything they want.

You can't even insurance, I know.

You can't even sue your insurance company anymore if they don't pay your claim, so.. - I love you, Victor.

And thank you for joining us.

Send us your comments at ftw@wedu.org and like us on Facebook.

You can view this and past shows online at wedu.org, or on the PBS app and "Florida This Week" is now available as a podcast.

From all of us at WEDU and our distinguished panel, have a great weekend.

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