>> HELLO, EVERYONE.

WELCOME TO AMANPOUR & COMPANY.

HERE IS WHAT IS COMING UP.

STRIKES IN NORTHERN GAZA.

ON THE FEARS OF PATIENTS AND MEDICS.

OUT OF THE SPOTLIGHT , BUT GRINDING ON.

RUSSIA'S WAR ON UKRAINE.

I WILL SPEAK TO SASHA DVORAK.

-- AND HER UNDERGIRD HER STRIKE, BUT HER STRUGGLE CONTINUES.

SUZANNE NOZZLE JOINS ME.

PLUS, BREAKING THROUGH MY LIFE IN SILENCE.

WE SPEAK TO NOBEL PRIZE WINNER ABOUT GRAMMAR RESEARCH INTO MNRA TECHNOLOGY.

>> AMANPOUR & COMPANY IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT , CANDACE KING LEAR, THE FAMILY FOUNDATION OF LAILA AND NIKKI STRAUSS, JIM ATWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS, MARK BLECHNER, J MELVIN, CHARLES ROSENBLUM, TO AND PATRICIA U.N., COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES.

BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG.

ADDITIONAL SUPPORT PROVIDED BY THESE FUNDERS AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

>> HELLO, EVERYONE.

WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

I AM SITTING IN FOR CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR.

A NEVER ENDING HUMANITARIAN NIGHTMARE.

THAT IS HOW THE SECRETARY- GENERAL DESCRIBES THE CURRENT SITUATION IN GAZA, AS TENS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE POLICE OUT.

ANOTHER EVACUATION CORRIDOR WAS ALLOWED FOR SIX HOURS.

THEY AGREED TO CONTINUE DAILY PAUSES IN AREAS OF NORTHERN GAZA, ACCORDING TO THE WHITE HOUSE.

EVEN THE U.S., ISRAEL'S STAUNCHEST ALLY DENOUNCED THE DEATH TOLL.

ANTONY BLINKEN SAYING, QUOTE, FAR TOO MANY PALESTINIANS HAVE BEEN KILLED.

HOSPITALS ARE, AGAIN, THE FOCUS OF CONCERN AS HIDING INTENSIFIES.

STRIKES WERE REPORTED IN THE VICINITY OF SEVERAL IN NORTHERN GAZA.

THE DIRECTOR OF A MEDICAL CENTER SAID THE FACILITY WAS COMPLETELY SURROUNDED BY TANKS.

ISRAEL'S MILITARY HAS NOT COMMENTED ON THE STRIKES BUT ACCUSES HAMAS OF EMBEDDING ITSELF IN CIVILIAN INFRASTRUCTURE.

WE HAVE THIS REPORT.

AND A WARNING, IT CONTAINS VIDEO THAT IS DIFFICULT AND DISTURBING TO WATCH.

>> Reporter: NIGHT 34 OF THIS WAR BROUGHT HELL TO GAZA HOSPITAL.

THEY RECITED THEIR FINAL PRAYERS.

THE HOSPITAL SAYS SEVERAL WERE INJURED IN THESE STRIKES AND TWO AMBULANCES WERE COMPLETELY DAMAGED.

IT WAS SEVERAL HOSPITALS STRUCK IN A NIGHT OF HORROR FOR THOSE IN NORTHERN GAZA.

ON FRIDAY, MORE HEART ACHE CAME WITH THESE DEVASTATING SCENES AT A HOSPITAL COMPLEX.

THE HAUNTING SCREAMS OF THOSE WHO SURVIVED THIS BLAST.

DAZED, CONFUSED, SEARCHING FOR LOVED ONES AMONGST THE DEAD AND INJURED.

IMAGES THAT INFURIATED HUMANITARIAN ACTIVISTS.

>> MR. BIDEN, MR. LINCOLN, MR. LINCOLN, CAN YOU HEAR ME?

PRIME MINISTERS AND PRESIDENTS OF THE EUROPEAN COUNTRIES, CAN YOU HEAR ME?

CAN YOU HEAR THE SCREAMS FROM THE HOSPITAL?

CAN YOU HEAR THE SCREAMS FROM INNOCENT PEOPLE?

REFUGEES SHELTERING, TRYING TO FIND A SAFE PLACE, BEING BOMBED BY ISRAELI ATTACK FORCES?

HOSPITALS THAT ARE THE TEMPLE OF HUMANITY AND PROTECTION?

>> Reporter: BUT THIS IS A WAR WITH NO REDLINES AND HOSPITALS ARE NO SANCTUARY FOR THE TENS OF THOUSANDS CRAMMED INTO THESE HOSPITALS, DESPERATE TO BE PROTECT DID FROM A WART LIKE NO OTHER THAT GAZA HAS SEEN.

FOR WEEKS, THE ISRAELI MILITARY HAS BEEN CALLING ON CIVILIANS TO MOVE SOUTH TO GET OUT OF HARMS WAY, THEY SAY, BUT SO MANY HAVE BEEN RELUCTANT TO KEEP THESE CALLS AND AIRSTRIKES.

THAT'S HAVE FOLLOWED THOUSANDS TO THE SOUTH.

NOWHERE IS SAFE IN THE BESIEGED TERRITORY.

AS THE MENTORING CORRIDOR WAS OPENED AMID FIGHTING IN THE NORTH, TENS OF THOUSANDS HAD NO CHOICE BUT TO RUN IN SCENES THAT EVOKE DARK MEMORIES FOR PALESTINIANS, AND EXODUS OF DECADES PAST, AND FROM WHICH THERE HAS BEEN NO RETURN.

BUT NOT EVERYONE CAN LEAVE.

THE FIGHTING HAS DROPPED SOME OF THE MOST VULNERABLE AT PEDIATRIC HOSPITALS, WHERE HUNDREDS ARE SHELTERING AND DOCTORS ARE CALLING ON THE IRC TO EVACUATE THEM.

ISRAELI TROOPS ARE RIGHT OUTSIDE THE HOSPITALS.

>> Translator: THE HOSPITAL IS SURROUNDED BY ALL SIDES.

WE ARE ASKED TO EVACUATE NOW.

A SAFE PASSAGE OUT.

BACK INSIDE, THERE IS NO STOPPING, NO PAUSES FOR THOSE ON A MISSION TO SAVE LIVES.

A FATHER ANXIOUSLY LOOKS TO DOCTORS FOR GOOD NEWS, ONLY TO BE TOLD THAT HIS LITTLE BOY IS GONE.

NEVER HAVE GAZANS FELT SO ABANDONED, ALONE IN THIS LAND OF DEATH, DESTRUCTION, AND DESPAIR.

>> WE THINK OUR REPORTER FOR THAT.

JOINING US FROM JERUSALEM, THERE ARE NO WORDS WHEN YOU SEE A FATHER IN ENGLISH LIKE THAT, RECEIVING NEWS THAT HIS SON HAS DIED.

WHAT MORE ARE WE LEARNING ABOUT THE AFTERMATH OF THESE STRIKES ON THE HOSPITALS?

>> IN THE REPORTING, THE VIDEOS, THE TESTIMONIES THAT ARE EMERGING FROM THE HOSPITAL ARE HORRIFYING, TO SAY THE LEAST.

ONCE AGAIN, WE ARE HEARING TESTIMONIES OF CIVILIANS BEING IMPACT IN THE LATEST STRIKE.

EYEWITNESSES ACCUSING THE ISRAEL DEFENSE FORCES OF CARRYING OUT AN AIRSTRIKE ON THE VICINITY OF THE HOSPITAL OR THE OUTPATIENT CLINIC.

NO COMMENT JUST YET ON THAT STRIKE.

BUT AS YOU SAW THERE, THIS IS REALLY SOMETHING THAT THE DOCTORS, THE MEDICS, HUMANITARIANS ON THE GROUND HAVE BEEN WARNING ABOUT FOUR WEEKS NOW AS WE HAVE SEEN AIRSTRIKES EDGING CLOSER AND CLOSER TO GAZA HOSPITALS.

SHE FOUGHT IS THE LARGEST IN GAZA.

THE HUNDREDS OF CIVILIANS THAT WE HAVE TAKEN TO HOSPITALS, THOUSANDS, RATHER, TAKING SHELTER AROUND THE HOSPITALS, HOPING THAT THESE HOSPITALS WILL REMAIN A SAFE HAVEN AND SANCTUARY AMONGST THESE RELENTLESS AIRSTRIKES.

WHAT WE ARE SEEING DAY AFTER DAY IS THAT THESE AIRSTRIKES, OR STRIKES, RATHER, EDGING CLOSER TO THESE HOSPITALS THAT ARE AT THE BRINK OF COLLAPSE, AS WE HAVE HEARD FROM THE MILITARY AND ON THE GROUND.

WE HAVE HEARD IN THE LAST HOUR OR SO FROM THE UN'S RELIEF CHIEF, HE HAS SPOKEN ABOUT THE SITUATION AT AL-SHIFA HOSPITAL .

SAYING, HORRIFIC REPORTS OF ATTACKS ON AL-SHIFA HOSPITAL TODAY.

THOUSANDS OF PATIENTS STARVED AND DISPLACED CIVILIANS ARE AT RISK.

HOSPITALS MUST BE PROTECTED.

PLACES OF GRACE.

INDEED, THEY MUST NEVER HAPPEN.

WE HAVE HEARD FROM THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY OF THE RED CROSS ISSUING A STATEMENT AS WELL ON THIS SITUATION.

SAYING THEY ARE OVERSTRETCHED, THE SITUATION IS NOT SAFE THERE.

THEY ARE REACHING THE POINT OF NO RETURN.

AS WE KNOW, THE VAST MAJORITY OF GAZA HOSPITALS ARE NOW OUT OF SERVICE.

AT AL-SHIFA HOSPITAL, SEVERAL WINGS HAVE ALREADY BEEN CLOSED.

AS WE KNOW, THERE HAVE BEEN STRIKES FRONT OTHER HOSPITALS AS WELL .

AS YOU SAW THE REPORTING, THEY ALLOWED THE HOSPITAL AMONG THEM, AT LEAST 10 INJURED THERE.

WE HAVE HEARD, OF COURSE, FROM A CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL IN GAZA.

THE MEDICAL OFFICIALS SAYING THAT THEY HAVE BEEN SURROUNDED NOW AS GROUND FIGHTING CONTINUES.

THEY HAVE APPEALED TO THE RED CROSS TO FACILITATE THE EVACUATION OF PATIENTS AND CIVILIANS FROM THIS HOSPITAL.

BUT AS WE KNOW, THESE AIRSTRIKES CONTINUE IN THE NORTH.

WHILE THERE HAVE BEEN PAUSES AND HUMANITARIAN PAUSES.

PARTICULARLY THE ELDERLY AND HOSPITAL PATIENTS THAT ARE NOT ABLE TO LEAVE THESE HOSPITALS.

OF COURSE, AS WE KNOW, THESE AIRSTRIKES HAVE CONTINUED IN CENTRAL GAZA AND SOUTHERN GAZA.

WHILE THE IDF THAT IT IS TARGETING HAMAS TARGETS.

CIVILIAN AREAS ARE, INDEED, STILL COMING UNDER ATTACK.

INCLUDING SCHOOLS, REFUGEE CAMPS, INCLUDING HOSPITALS AND MEDICAL FACILITIES.

AS WE HAVE HEARD THOSE WARNINGS FROM THE HUMANITARIAN CHIEF TODAY, THERE IS, IT SEEMS, NOWHERE SAFE FOR CIVILIANS IN GAZA TO TURN.

>> HAMAS HAS, THROUGHOUT ALL OF THIS, EMBEDDED ITSELF IN HOSPITALS.

ALTHOUGH WE SHOULD NOTE THAT THE IDEA HAS NOT RESPONDED TO REQUESTS FOR NEWS FROM THESE SPECIFIC ATTACKS.

THE MOST RECENT STRIKES ON THESE HOSPITALS.

WHILE I HAVE YOU, WE HEARD SOME OF THE HARSHEST WORDS FROM THE U.S., NOT CALLING FOR A CEASE- FIRE.

BUT SECRETARY OF STATE LINCOLN SAYING THAT FAR TOO MANY PALESTINIANS HAVE BEEN KILLED.

PALESTINIAN CIVILIANS.

HOW IS IT BEING RECEIVED IN ISRAEL?

>> YES, WE HAVE HEARD THOSE STRONG WORDS FROM SECRETARY BLINKING.

ARE TOO MANY PALESTINIANS HAVE SUFFERED IN THE LAST FEW WEEKS, ACCORDING TO SECRETARY BLINKING.

IT CERTAINLY IS A SUBTLE SHIFT IN THE U.S.

POSITION, ALTHOUGH IT IS IMPORTANT TO KNOW THAT THE U.S.

STILL HAS EXPRESSED ITS STEADFAST SUPPORT AND SOLIDARITY WITH THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT AND PEOPLE.

WHAT WE ARE SEEING IS A SHIFT.

SECRETARY BLINKING SAYING TODAY THAT MORE CAN AND SHOULD BE DONE TO PROTECT CIVILIAN LIVES.

THERE ARE ONGOING DISCUSSIONS BETWEEN THE U.S. AND ISRAEL AND CONCRETE STEPS THAT CAN BE TAKEN TO ENSURE THAT CIVILIAN DEATHS ARE MINIMIZED, BUT ALSO TO ENSURE THAT YOU MENTORING ASSISTANCE IS ABLE TO GET IN AS WELL.

WE HAVE HEARD COMMITMENTS FROM THE U.S. NOW IN REGARDS TO THE SITUATION IN GAZA, WITH REGARD TO A POST GOVERNANCE CONFLICT IN GAZA.

WE HAVE HEARD FROM OTHER ISRAELI OFFICIALS INDICATING AN SIGNALING THAT ISRAEL WOULD SEEK TO ESTABLISH OVERALL SECURITY AND RESPONSIBILITY OVER GAZA ONCE THE WAR IS OVER.

OF COURSE, THAT HAS BEEN CHARACTERIZED BY THE U.S.

EARLIER IN THE WEEK AS A MISTAKE.

SECRETARY BLINKING TODAY REITERATING THE COMMITMENT TO NOT ONLY AGAINST THE STATEMENT OF PALESTINIANS FROM THEIR LAND, BUT REITERATING THE U.S.

COMMITMENT FOR PALESTINIAN GOVERNMENTS, UNIFIED PALESTINIAN GOVERNMENTS IN THE FUTURE OVER BOTH GAZA AND THE WEST BANK.

>> UNIFIED UNDER THE LEADERSHIP OF THE PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY IS WHERE THE U.S.

STANDS RIGHT NOW.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

LIVE FOR US FROM JERUSALEM.

>>> THIS WEEK, HUNDREDS OF FOREIGN NATIONALS ESCAPED GAZA INTO EGYPT.

AMONG THEM, NEARLY 100 UKRAINIANS, ACCORDING TO PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY.

FLEEING YET ANOTHER WAR.

AS THE WORLD'S ATTENTION REMAINS FIRMLY IN THE MIDDLE EAST, A CONFLICT IN UKRAINE GRINDS ON.

PRESIDENT ZELINSKI APPEARED ON U.S. TELEVISION ON SUNDAY TO TRY TO KEEP HIS COUNTRIES RIGHT IN THE MINDS OF AMERICAN PEOPLE.

>> DO NOT SEND YOUR DOCTORS AND SONS TO OTHER COUNTRIES.

IF RUSSIA WILL KILL ALL OF US, THEY WILL ATTACK NATO COUNTRIES, AND YOU WILL SEND YOUR SONS AND DAUGHTERS, AND IT WILL BE, I AM SORRY, BUT THE PRICE WILL BE HIGHER.

I THINK THAT THE NEXT YEAR, WITH ITS CHALLENGES, BECAUSE THIS IS A YEAR OF --.

AGAIN, WE SEE THE CONFLICT IN THE MIDDLE EAST.

YOUR HELP IS REALLY IMPORTANT FOR THE NEXT YEAR.

AND THAT IS CRUCIAL.

>> Reporter: OUR NEXT GUEST SAID UKRAINIANS SHOULD NOT HAVE TO COMPETE FOR THE WORLD'S ATTENTION./IT DOES IT -- SASHA DOJIK.

YOU ARE PLANNING TO MOVE BACK TO UKRAINE AT THE END OF THE YEAR.

YOU WERE THERE IN KYIV, TELL US WHAT YOU ARE SEEING THERE.

IT IS RIGHT TO POINT OUT THAT SO MUCH OF THE WORLD'S ATTENTION HAS SHIFTED TO THE MIDDLE EAST.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME.

I INDEED WAS IN UKRAINE JUST AT THE END OF OCTOBER.

AND WHAT I SAW THERE WAS, BASICALLY, WHAT I HAVE BEEN SEEING THROUGH THE ENTIRETY OF RUSSIA'S FULL-SCALE INVASION.

INCREDIBLE DEFIANCE AND RESISTANCE OF THE UKRAINIAN PEOPLE.

ALMOST ALL MY CLASSMATES ARE ON THE FRONT LINES NOW.

HALF OF THEM HAVE ALREADY BEEN WOUNDED.

THEY RECOVERED AND RETURNED TO THE FRONT LINES TO FIGHT AGAINST RUSSIA'S GENOCIDAL ONSLAUGHT IN UKRAINE.

UKRAINIAN CIVILIANS CONTINUE HELPING IN WHATEVER WAY THEY CAN.

BE IT WITHIN CAMOUFLAGE NETS FOR THE ARMY, DONATING TO SUPPORT THE DEFENDERS, OR KEEPING THEIR STORY IN THE SPOTLIGHTS, OPEN TO NATIONAL NEWS.

ALL OF THESE EFFORTS ARE ABSOLUTELY INEVITABLE IN OUR CASE BECAUSE WE ARE FIGHTING AN EXTRA ESSENTIAL WAR.

IT MEANS WE DO NOT HAVE A CHOICE NOT TO FIGHT.

IF WE STOP FIGHTING, THERE WILL BE NO MORE US.

IT IS QUITE EASY TO CONTINUE NOWADAYS, IF WE WANT TO CONTINUE TO EXIST.

>> Reporter: THAT LED YOU TO WRITE A VERY COMPELLING PIECE IN THE NEW YORK TIMES.

I WANT TO READ SOME OF IT FOR OUR VIEWERS.

YOU WRITE, FOR 20 MONTHS, I HAVE BEEN TURNING OUT ESSAYS ON WHY THE WORLD SHOULD SAY FOCUS ON UKRAINE.

I HAVE WRITTEN AT A BOMB SHELTER IN LVIV.

I REFUSE TO COMPETE FOR ATTENTION.

OBVIOUSLY, WHAT HAPPENED ON OCTOBER 7th IN ISRAEL SHOCKED THE WORLD.

IN THE SUBSEQUENT WAR HAS CONTINUED TO SHOCK.

ARE YOU SURPRISED THOUGH THAT THERE IS NOT ENOUGH SPACE TO COVER TWO VERY SIGNIFICANT WARS?

>> I AM NOT SURPRISED.

WE ARE AT A CRITICAL POINT IN OUR HISTORY, PERHAPS, IN THIS CENTURY.

WE HAVE NOT EXPERIENCED INTERNATIONAL CRISIS AT SUCH A SCALE.

SO PERHAPS IT IS INEVITABLE, WE SOMETIMES FEEL CONFUSED OR TIRED.

BUT I THINK IT IS VERY IMPORTANT FOR US TO KEEP OUR FOCUS SHARP.

BECAUSE IF WE LOSE OUR FOCUS, IT MEANS THAT WE LOSE ON ALL FRONTS.

IF WE ALLOW UKRAINE TO SLIDE DOWN THE SCALE OF OUR ATTENTION, IT MEANS THAT WE ARE LETTING DOWN THE PEOPLE WHO REPRESENT A DEMOCRACY.

THERE IS NO DOUBT ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD THAT UKRAINE NEEDS A DEMOCRACY.

WE ARE LETTING THEM DOWN.

WE SHOW THE WORLD THAT DEMOCRACIES ARE NOT OUR PRIORITY, AND WE SEND A CLEAR SIGNAL TO AUTHORITARIANS AROUND THE WORLD THAT DEMOCRACIES CAN BE ATTACKED.

IT MEANS THAT BY STAYING WITH UKRAINE AND KEEPING OUR ATTENTION ON UKRAINE, ALTHOUGH THERE ARE OTHER HORRIBLE CONFLICT HAPPENING AROUND THE WORLD, IT MEANS THAT WE WILL MAKE THE WORLD A SAFER PLACE IF WE CONTINUE SUPPORTING THE PEOPLE WHO ARE RESISTING A TRULY ATROCIOUS, GENOCIDAL ONSLAUGHT FROM AN AUTHORITARIAN REGIME.

>> Reporter: WE SEE PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY REALLY HAVING A PULSE ON THE CURRENT ENVIRONMENT RIGHT NOW IN THE U.S., BUT AROUND THE WORLD.

WITH SO MUCH ATTENTION ON THE MIDDLE EAST, LET'S BE HONEST.

EVEN BEFORE OCTOBER 7th, THERE HAD BEEN SOME FRUSTRATION IN THE U.S., SPECIFICALLY AMONGST THE REPUBLICAN PARTY ABOUT CONTINUED SUPPORT FOR UKRAINE AND THIS WAR, AND HOW LONG IT COULD GO ON.

WE VERY WELL MAY SEE A GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWN NEXT WEEK BECAUSE PRESIDENT BIDEN IS ASKING FOR FUNDING FOR BOTH THE WAR IN UKRAINE AND HELPING ISRAEL.

REPUBLICANS, AT THIS POINT, SEEM TO ONLY BE AGREEING ON THE ISRAEL ASPECT OF THIS.

EXPLAINED TO OUR VIEWERS HOW THIS IS BEING RECEIVED IN UKRAINE AND THE IMPACT IT MAY BE HAVING ON TROOP MORALE OVERALL.

>> YES, OF COURSE.

WE ARE INCREDIBLY GRATEFUL FOR THE SUPPORT THAT WE ARE RECEIVING.

AND WE RELY ON THIS CONTINUED SUPPORT TO CONTINUE OUR FIGHT.

WINTER IS COMING IN UKRAINE.

IT MEANS THAT RUSSIA WILL, AGAIN, TRY TO ATTACK UKRAINIAN INFRASTRUCTURE FOR ENERGY.

WE MUST BOOST OUR AIR DEFENSE IN ORDER FOR UKRAINIAN CIVILIANS NOT TO SUFFER THE SCALE OF LETDOWNS THEY SUFFERED LAST YEAR.

WE ARE INDEED TRULY APPRECIATIVE OF THE SUPPORT WE ARE RECEIVING FROM THE U.S..

BUT WE ALSO UNDERSTAND THAT WE ARE THE ONES WHO ARE ACTUALLY FIGHTING THIS WAR ON THE GROUND.

WE ARE THE ONES WHO ARE SACRIFICING OUR HEALTH, OUR LIVES.

AND BASICALLY, TIME THAT COULD BE INVESTED INTO BUILDING OUR CULTURE AND DEVELOPING OUR INFRASTRUCTURE, PROTECTING OUR ENVIRONMENT.

WE ARE LOSING THIS TIME TO WIN THE BATTLE AGAINST RUSSIA'S INVASION, WHICH THREATENS NOT ONLY US, IT THREATENS OTHER COUNTRIES IN THE EUROPEAN UNION.

WE KNOW VERY WELL THAT RUSSIA HAS PROPAGANDA AND THREATS OF UKRAINE, POLAND, THE BALTIC STATES, FINLAND, SWEDEN, ALL THE ALLIES OF THE U.S. AND EUROPE.

AND UKRAINE, BY FIGHTING ALONE, IN TERMS OF OUR PHYSICAL PRESENCE ON THE GROUND, IT IS ACTUALLY PUTTING A SHIELD IN FRONT OF THE ALLIES OF THE U.S. AND EUROPE.

WE ARE MAKING THE CONTINENT A SAFER PLACE.

IF WE RECEIVE THE SUPPORT THAT WE NEED TO DEFEND OURSELVES AND TO WIN THIS WAR, IT WILL SEND A CLEAR SIGNAL TO EVERYONE AROUND THE GLOBE WHO IS NOW WATCHING THIS WAR IN UKRAINE THAT DEMOCRACIES WILL BE SUPPORTED AND THAT FURTHER INTERNATIONAL CONFLICTS ARE NOT WORTH PURSUING.

>> Reporter: UKRAINIANS TOP OR GENERAL MADE NEWS A FEW WEEKS AGO DESCRIBING THE WAR AS BEING AT A STALEMATE, ESSENTIALLY.

PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY DISPUTED THAT.

BUT IS THAT THE SENSE AMONG UKRAINIANS?

AND IF SO, IS THERE CONCERN THAT THERE WOULD BE MORE PRESSURE FROM THE WEST TO GO TO THE NEGOTIATING TABLE?

>> IT IS A HARD WAR TO FIGHT FOR US.

WE HAVE BEEN PURSUING WHAT IS CALLED A COUNTEROFFENSIVE TO LIBERATE OUR TERRITORIES, WHICH ARE CURRENTLY OCCUPIED BY RUSSIA, BASICALLY WITHOUT AIR SUPPORT.

THIS IS NOT WHAT A NATO COUNTRY WOULD BE ASKED TO DO.

THIS IS NOT WHAT IS EXPECTED OF OUR ALLIES IN THE WEST.

WE BASICALLY PERSEVERED BECAUSE WE DID NOT HAVE ANOTHER CHOICE.

THERE ARE PEOPLE IN THE TERRITORIES OCCUPIED BY RUSSIA.

AND WHEN WE LIBERATE OUR TERRITORIES, AS WE HAVE DONE, I WOULD LIKE TO REMIND US THAT UKRAINE HAS ACTUALLY LIBERATED MORE THAN HALF OF THE TERRITORIES THAT RUSSIA OCCUPIED SINCE THE START OF THE FULL-SCALE INVASION.

WHEN WE LIBERATE THOSE TERRITORIES, THEY CANNOT BE FORGOTTEN.

THERE ARE MASS GRAVES OF ART HELLO CITIZENS.

AMONG THOSE WHO STOOD IN THE MASK GRAVE IN THE KHARKIV REGION, WHERE A FELLOW WRITER WAS BURIED.

AND AFTER THIS, YOU UNDERSTAND THAT YOU DO NOT HAVE A CHOICE.

YOU MUST LIBERATE ALL OF THE TERRITORIES.

THIS IS THE ONLY PIECE GUARANTEE THAT EXISTS FOR UKRAINIANS.

UNLESS RUSSIA IS PUSHED BACK TO ITS INTERNATIONALLY RECOGNIZED BORDERS, WE WILL NOT HAVE PEACE IN UKRAINE.

AND THE CEASE-FIRE MOMENT WILL BE USED BY RUSSIA TO REARM AND ATTACK UKRAINE.

BASICALLY FOR THEM, IT IS AN EXPENSE THAT -- ?

ESSENTIAL FIGHT.

IT IS AN EXISTENTIAL THREAT TO RUSSIA'S AUTHORITARIAN REGIME.

IF WE SUCCEED, RUSSIA WILL ALSO EXPERIENCE IN INTERNAL CRISIS, WHICH WOULD DEFINITELY PUSH QUESTIONS TO RECONSIDER THEIR CURRENT ORDER.

>> AND EU MEMBERSHIP IS ALSO SEEN, ONCE UPON A TIME, AT THE REDLINE, FOR VLADIMIR PUTIN.

THE ULTIMATE GOAL, ASIDE FROM WINNING THIS WORK FOR UKRAINE IS WINNING THE WAR.

BUT ALSO JOINING THE EU.

THIS WEEK, THE EUROPEAN COMMISSION PRESIDENT SAID THAT UKRAINE IS READY FOR EU MEMBERSHIP TALKS.

THAT LED TO PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY RESPONDING IN A POST ON X THAT IT WAS A STRONG AND HISTORIC STEP.

HOW SIGNIFICANT AND HOW IMPORTANT WOULD EU MEMBERSHIP BE AT THIS MOMENT FOR UKRAINIANS?

>> IT WAS SUCH WELCOME AND FANTASTIC NEWS FOR ALL OF US.

DECADES AGO, SOME YEARS AGO IN 2016, A REVOLUTION WAS STARTED WHEN OUR THEN CORRUPT PRESIDENT CHOSE TO TURN AWAY FROM HIS COUNTRIES AND HIS PEOPLE'S, ALONG WITH MOSCOW, UKRAINIANS WENT OUT TO THE STREET AND PROTESTED.

THIS TURNED INTO A THREE-MONTH LONG REVOLUTION.

AT THE END OF WHICH, THE FORMER PRESIDENT WAS OUSTED.

AND WE ACTUALLY SUCCEEDED IN TOTALING THE REGIME THAT TRIED TO DISSUADE OUR EUROPEAN HOPES AND ASPIRATIONS.

AT THE SUCCESS OF THE UKRAINIAN DEMOCRATIC REVOLUTION, IT WOULD NOT ACTUALLY MATCH WITH ANY OPTIMISTS IN THE COUNTRY.

I WOULD LIKE TO SAY THAT THESE DAYS, WE SEE THAT THE PATH TOWARD THE EUROPEAN UNION WAS NOT AN EASY ONE FOR US.

BUT WE ARE SUCCEEDING, THIS VICTORY FOR US MEANS THAT WE CAN ALSO WIN ON THE BATTLEFIELD.

JUST BECAUSE WE PERSEVERE, AND BECAUSE WE DO NOT HAVE ANOTHER CHOICE.

THIS IS THE CHOICE THAT WAS MADE A DECADE AGO.

WE ARE STILL IN THIS PATH.

AND WE BELIEVE THAT WE WILL EMERGE FROM THE CURRENT TERRIBLE, TERRIBLE SITUATION VICTORIOUS.

>> SASHA DOVZHYK REMINDING US THAT THIS IS A WAR WE CANNOT LOSE SIGHT OF AND CANNOT STOP COVERING.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME AND DEDICATION.

POLICE DO KEEP US POSTED IN THE MONTHS THAT COME, ESPECIALLY AS YOU DO MOVE BACK TO UKRAINE.

WE APPRECIATE YOUR TIME.

>> THANK YOU.

>>> MUST MONTH, THE NOBEL PEACE PRIZE WILL BE AWARDED TO SOMEONE WHO CANNOT BE PRESENT TO ACCEPT IT.

IRANIAN HUMAN RIGHTS ACTIVIST -- AS SPENT MOST OF THE PAST TWO DECADES BEHIND BARS.

CURRENTLY SERVING A 10 YEAR SENTENCE IN IRAN'S NOTORIOUS PRISON, ACCUSED OF ACTIONS AGAINST NATIONAL SECURITY AND THE STATE.

THIS WEEK, SHE WENT ON A HUNGER STRIKE OVER WHAT SHE SAID WAS THE JAIL'S REFUSAL TO PROVIDE HER WITH MEDICAL TREATMENT.

IT IS A REMINDER OF THE FREEDOM OF ACCESSION IN IRAN RIGHT NOW.

PENN AMERICA IS A STAUNCH SUPPORTER OF NARGES MOHAMMADI.

SEAL OF PAN AMERICA JOINS ME NOW FROM NEW YORK.

SUZANNE, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

WE DO HAVE NEWS THAT NARGES MOHAMMADI HAS ENDED HER HUNTER -- HUNGER STRIKE AFTER SHE HAS BEEN TREATED IN THE HOSPITAL WITHOUT BEING FORCED TO WEAR A MANDATORY HIJAB.

WHAT MORE CAN YOU TELL US ABOUT HER CURRENT CONDITION?

>> YES.

WE ARE VERY GRATIFIED THAT SHE WAS TAKEN TO A HOSPITAL, SHE WAS TREATED.

SHE STOOD UP FOR HERSELF.

SHE WENT ON HIS HUNGER STRIKE BECAUSE SHE NEEDED MEDICAL TREATMENT.

SHE HAS A HEART CONDITION THAT SHE HAS HAD FOR SOME TIME.

SHE WAS INSISTENT THAT SHE WAS NOT GOING TO PUT ON A JOB FOR THIS TRIP TO THE HOSPITAL.

SHE WAS ON A HUNGER STRIKE DEMANDING TO RECEIVE MEDICAL ATTENTION.

IT WAS A STANDOFF.

AND THEN THE IRANIAN AUTHORITIES, FROM WHAT WE CAN TELL, GAVE IN.

THEY LET HER GO TO THE HOSPITAL.

THEY SAID THAT THEY TRANSFERRED HER TO THE HOSPITAL AND IT WAS CONDUCTED PROPERLY WITHIN ALL THE APPROPRIATE REGULATIONS.

YET, WE HAVE HEARD FROM HER AND HER ASSOCIATES THAT SHE DID NOT WEAR THE HIJAB.

YOU KNOW, HER POINT WAS, IF THAT WAS CONSIDERED PROPER AND IN COMPLIANCE WITH ALL THEIR REQUISITE AUTHORITIES, IF I DO NOT HAVE TO WEAR A HIJAB, NO ONE SHOULD HAVE TO WEAR A HIJAB.

SHE USED THIS MOMENT TO PRESS HER POINT AS AN ACTIVIST AND ADVOCATE.

NOT JUST FOR HERSELF, BUT FOR ALL IRANIAN WOMEN IN THIS CAMPAIGN TO SHAKE OFF THE HIJAB , CERTAINLY NOT HAVE IT BE COMPULSORY, AND TO WIN THEIR FREEDOM.

IT IS YET ANOTHER INSPIRING EXAMPLE OF THE COURAGE THAT SHE HAS SHOWN, EVEN UNDER THE MOST DIFFICULT CONDITIONS.

IN PRISON AN URGENT NEED FOR MEDICAL TREATMENT.

>> THERE ARE HEROES AND THEN THERE ARE WOMEN LIKE NARGES MOHAMMADI , WHO NO ONE COULD HAVE IMAGINED THE SACRIFICE SHE HAS MADE TO STAY TRUE TO HER CONVICTIONS.

WE HAVE COVERED HER EXTENSIVELY AT CNN, ESPECIALLY CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR HAS COVERED HER ON THIS SHOW.

BUT TELL US MORE ABOUT HER WRITING AND WHY PENN HAS REALLY STOOD NEXT TO HER AND STOOD WITH HER IN SUPPORT THROUGHOUT THIS JOURNEY.

>> YES.

SHE HAS AN EXTRA ORDINARY VOICE.

SHE SPENT THE BETTER PART OF A LAST DECADE IN PRISON.

SHE HAS TWO TEENAGED CHILDREN THAT SHE HAS NOT SEEN IN MORE THAN NINE YEARS.

HER HUSBAND, WHEN HE CAME TO RECEIVE THE AWARD ON HER BEHALF, BECAUSE, OF COURSE, SHE WAS IN PRISON, IT HAD TO BE DEFERRED TO HER IN ABSENTIA, HE TALKED ABOUT HIS CHILDREN NEVER HAVING HAD A TIME WHERE THEY HAD BOTH PARENTS LIVING TOGETHER.

ONE OR THE OTHER HAD BEEN IN PRISON THEIR ENTIRE LIVES.

TO CAST ASIDE YOUR FAMILY LIFE, YOUR LOVED ONES, AND SERVICE OF FREEDOM FOR OTHER WOMEN, HUMAN RIGHTS IN IRAN, IT IS JUST EXTRAORDINARY.

SHE HAS ALSO BEEN A REMARKABLE DOCUMENTER OF JUST WHAT EXACTLY IT IS THAT HAPPENS IN THIS REGIME.

SHE PUT OUT A BOOK ABOUT THE EXPERIENCE OF IRANIAN WOMEN ENDURING SOLITARY CONFINEMENT.

SHE DID INTERVIEWS WITH 12 WOMEN.

THIS WAS ON A BRIEF PRISON FURLOUGH, SHE MANAGES TO DO INTERVIEWS WITH 12 WOMEN WHO HAD ENDURED SOLITARY CONFINEMENT IN AN IRANIAN PRISON, AND TO TELL THEIR STORIES AND MAKE THE CASE, SHE CALLED IT WHITE TORTURE, THAT SOLITARY CONFINEMENT IS A FORM OF TORTURE.

SHE ADVANCED THE BALL INTERNATIONALLY, IN TERMS OF RECOGNIZING THE RAMIFICATIONS OF SOLITARY CONFINEMENT ALL OVER THE WORLD.

THAT REALLY NEEDS TO BE ACKNOWLEDGED AS A FORM OF TORTURE.

SO SHE IS JUST RELENTLESS.

YOU CAN SEE HOW SHE USES EVERY SINGLE MOMENT OF HER LIFE TO WAGE THIS STRUGGLE.

OVER THE LAST YEAR, WITH THE UPRISING OF WOMEN AFTER THE KILLING OF MARTHA AMINI IN IRAN, IT HAS BEEN AN INSPIRATION TO SO MANY YOUNG WOMEN WHO HAVE TAKEN TO THE STREETS, TO THEIR SCHOOL YARDS, CASTING OFF THEIR JOBS, CHALLENGING THE REGIME WITH ENORMOUS COURAGE.

AND IN THE FACE OF REALLY TERRIFYING OPPRESSION.

>> Reporter: DESPITE THIS COURAGEOUS MOVEMENT THAT WE SEE JUST IMAGES OF FROM LAST YEAR , THINGS HAVE NOT GOTTEN MUCH BETTER FOR WOMEN IN THE COUNTRY.

IN FACT, THEY JUST PASSED A LAW IN SEPTEMBER, A STRICTER HIJAB BILL, TARGETING THOSE WHO MOCK THE DRESS CODE.

HAVE YOU BEEN ABLE TO CRACK EITHER THROUGH NARGES MOHAMMADI'S WRITING OR THROUGH OTHERS, WHAT IS IT SPECIFICALLY THAT THIS REGIME FEARS WOMEN SO MUCH FOR?

>> I THINK IT IS A VERY DEEP- SEATED RECOGNITION THAT, YOU KNOW, WOMEN ARE THE HEART AND SOUL OF FAMILIES AND OF SOCIETY, AND THAT THEY HAVE THIS CRAVING FOR FREEDOM.

WE SEE SO MANY POWERFUL IRANIAN WOMEN, IN THE TRADITION OF -- WHO WON THE NOBEL PEACE PRIZE 20 YEARS AGO, WOMEN LIKE THIS LAWYER WHO HAS BEEN AT THE FOREFRONT OF THE MOVEMENT FOR HUMAN RIGHTS, DEFENDING DISSIDENTS.

SO THE WOMEN JUST HAVE THIS WILL OF STEEL.

IT SEEMS TO BE SOMETHING THAT THE IRANIAN REGIME SEEMS AS PARTICULARLY THREATENING.

AND THAT IS WHY THEY ARE SO REPRESSIVE.

IT IS NOT JUST THE HIJAB, IT IS THE WHOLE JUSCO THAT WOMEN ARE SUBJECT TO.

IT IS REALLY A FORM OF SUBJUGATION.

I THINK THERE IS A DEEP FEAR THAT IF WOMEN HAD THEIR WAY AND HAD THEIR FULL VOICE AND ROLE IN SOCIETY, THAT THERE IS NO WAY THAT THIS AUTHORITARIAN REGIME COULD SURVIVE.

WE SEE MANY OF THESE WOMEN BEING THE MOST POTENT FIGURES IN IRANIAN SOCIETY, THOSE WHO CAPTURED INTERNATIONAL ATTENTION, WHO HAVE SPARKED MASS MOVEMENTS.

SO THERE IS A POWER THERE THAT THE REGIME CLEARLY FEARS.

>> Reporter: THIS REGIME LIKE THE WORLD TO FOCUS LESS ON WHAT IS HAPPENING WITHIN ITS OWN BORDERS AND MORE ON WHAT IS HAPPENING IN THE REGION.

SPECIFICALLY THE ISRAEL / GAZA WAR.

THERE IS A LOT OF SPECULATION ABOUT WHAT ROLE IRAN IT MAY HAVE DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY THAT LED UP TO THE OCTOBER 7th ATTACK.

AS YOU KNOW, THERE HAVE BEEN A LOT OF HEATED RHETORIC THAT HAS BEEN GENERATED FROM THIS WAR.

VERY POLARIZING, DIFFERING VIEWS.

AND VERY STRONG STATEMENTS THAT HAVE BEEN COMING OUT FROM ORGANIZATIONS LIKE YOURS.

ONE ISSUE ON OCTOBER 10th RED PET MARKET DEPLORES THE VICIOUS ATTACK AGAINST ISRAELI CIVILIANS.

ANOTHER OCTOBER 17th SAYING -- AND CULTURE UNDER THREAT FROM ISRAEL'S RETALIATORY ATTACKS.

THAT HAS SUBSEQUENTLY LED TO A LOT OF INTERNAL PUSHBACK.

I KNOW FROM PEOPLE WHO ARE PART OF THE ORGANIZATION, HOW HAVE YOU RESPONDED TO THAT?

AND HAVE YOU QUESTIONED WHY YOU WOULD EVEN ISSUE STATEMENT, GIVEN HOW HEATED THIS SPECIFIC ISSUE IS?

>> YES.

IT IS A TOUGH MOMENT FOR SO MANY INSTITUTIONS.

WE ARE A BIG TEN ORGANIZATION.

WE ENCOMPASSED THOUSANDS OF WRITERS FROM EVERY PART OF THE POLITICAL SPECTRUM.

THAT IS THE VERY PURPOSE AND -- IF YOU CAN USE WRITING AND LITERATURE AS A BRIDGE ACROSS DIVIDE, AS A CATALYST TO BE ABLE TO SEE INTO A DIFFERENT FUTURE, THAT THERE IS AN UNTAPPED POWER THERE THAT WE TRY TO UNLEASH, SO SOMETHING THAT IS DIVISIVE IN SOCIETY IS GOING TO BE DIVISIVE FOR AN ORGANIZATION LIKE OURS, AS IT IS FOR SO MANY CORPORATIONS AND UNIVERSITIES.

WE DO WORK ON THE MIDDLE EAST, WE HAVE WORKED ON BEHALF OF PALESTINIAN WRITERS WHO HAVE BEEN IMPRISONED FOR THEIR WORDS.

A POET WHOSE CASE WE TOOK UP FOR MANY YEARS.

SO WE SEE OURSELVES AS HAVING A STAKE IN THIS.

WE HAVE DONE A LOT OF WORK ON WHAT IS HAPPENING IN COLLEGE CAMPUSES.

WE HAVE A LOT OF THINKING AND GUIDANCE THAT WE HAVE DEVELOPED OVER THE YEARS ABOUT HOW TO KEEP THE COLLEGE CAMPUS A PLACE THAT IS BOTH OPEN TO ALL PEOPLE, NO MATTER RACE, NATIONALITY, RELIGION, AND IDEAS, NO MATTER WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT THE ISRAEL / HAMAS CONFLICT, YOU'VE GOT TO HAVE A PLACE IN VOICE ON CAN'T -- CAMPUS.

>> Reporter: IT IS NOT WORKING.

IT DOES NOT APPEAR TO BE HEALTHY FREEDOM OF SPEECH AMONG ACADEMICS AND STUDENTS.

THERE ARE STUDENTS ON ONE SIDE WHO FEEL THREATENED, THEIR STUDENTS ON THE OTHER SIDE SAYING THAT THEY HAVE A RIGHT TO EXPRESS FREEDOM OF SPEECH.

WHY HAS THIS TURNED INTO SUCH A NEGATIVE EXAMPLE OF THE USE OF FREEDOM OF SPEECH?

MANY SAY, YOU KNOW, THIS HAS TURNED INTO A POTENTIAL, YOU KNOW, HATE CRIMES AT TIMES AND HATE SPEECH.

WHERE DO YOU DRAW THE LINE?

AND WHAT CAN UNIVERSITIES LEARN FROM THIS EXAMPLE?

>> YEAH, SURE.

THERE ARE LINES.

THE FIRST AMENDMENT DOES NOT PROTECT ALL SPEECH.

IT DOES NOT PROTECT THREATS OR HARASSMENT.

IT DOES NOT PROTECT THE INCITEMENT OF INTIMATE VIOLENCE.

IT DOES NOT PROTECT VIOLENT ACTS.

THOSE LINES HAVE TO BE MAINTAINED.

WE HAVE SEEN CONDUCT OVER THE LAST FEW WEEKS THAT CAUSES SOME OF THOSE LINES.

ON THE OTHER HAND, WE HAVE SEEN BOISTEROUS PROTEST THAT MAY BE A LITTLE BIT INTIMIDATING, FORCEFUL.

AND YET THAT SPEECH, MOST OF THE TIME, IF IT DOES NOT CROSS THOSE LINES, IS PROTECT DID.

IT IS A PUBLIC UNIVERSITY.

THEY CANNOT BAN OR PUNISH THAT SPEECH.

SO WE HAVE BEEN GIVING GUIDANCE TO UNIVERSITY LEADERS AND FACULTIES ABOUT HOW TO NAVIGATE THOSE BOUNDARIES AND STAND UP FOR STUDENTS WHO FEEL THREATENED, HOW TO SHOW SOLIDARITY WHEN STUDENTS FEEL VICTIMIZED, HOW TO CREATE SPACE FOR ACTUAL GAVE AND TAKE AND DIALOGUE THAT IS NOT JUST TO PARTIES TRYING TO SHUT ONE ANOTHER DOWN.

I THINK WHAT WE HAVE SEEN IS THAT THERE IS A CRISIS IN TERMS OF CIVIC DISCOURSE ON OUR CAMPUSES.

OUR CAMPUSES ARE THE INCUBATORS FOR DEMOCRATIC CITIZENRY.

FOR MOST KIDS, THIS IS THE FIRST PLACE WHERE THERE ENCOUNTERING PEOPLE FROM VASTLY DIFFERENT BACKGROUNDS, RELIGIONS, NATIONALITIES, FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD.

YOU KNOW, I THINK THERE WAS A NOTION THAT JUST BY PUTTING KIDS TOGETHER AND MAKING THE CAMPUS MORE DIVERSE, WE WOULD BRING ABOUT A PLURALISTIC SOCIETY AND LEARN HOW TO LIVE TOGETHER.

AND WE ARE SEEING IT TAKES A LOT MORE WORK THAN THAT.

THIS HAS TO BE A MUCH MORE INTENTIONAL, DELIBERATE EFFORT ON CAMPUSES TO EDUCATE KIDS ABOUT FREE SPEECH, TO HELP FACULTY MAINTAIN AN ENVIRONMENT OF OPEN DISCOURSE IN THE CLASSROOM TO ENSURE THAT POLICIES ARE ENFORCED AND WHEN PROTESTS CROSS OVER THE LINE AND THEY ARE SHUTTING DOWN A CLASSROOM DISCUSSION, YOU KNOW, THAT MAY GO TOO FAR.

YOU HAVE TO BE VIEWPOINT MUTUAL.

YOU CANNOT POLICE SPEECH THAT IS PRO-ISRAEL MORE THAN YOU DO THAT THAT IS PRO-PALESTINE.

PEOPLE HAVE TO BE TREATED EQUALLY.

THERE IS A LOT WE CAN LEARN FROM THIS MOMENT.

I HOPE IT DOES BECOME A WATERSHED.

IT FEELS LIKE A CRISIS RIGHT NOW, BUT I THINK THERE IS A SENSE OF POSSIBILITY THAT IT IS OPENING PEOPLE'S EYES TO WHAT ELSE NEEDS TO BE DONE TO KEEP OUR CAMPUSES FREE AND OPEN TO EVERYONE, AND TO THE BROADEST RANGE OF IDEAS.

>>> THERE IS A REAL SENSE OF VULNERABILITY.

THERE IS A FEAR OF ANTI- SEMITISM, THERE IS A FEAR, YOU KNOW, THE RISE IN ISLAMOPHOBIA AS WELL.

THERE JUST SEEMS TO BE NO END TO THIS INSIGHT AND SOLUTIONS, WHICH IT SEEMS LIKE WHAT YOUR ORGANIZATION IS DOING IN HELPING TO PROVIDE THESE UNIVERSITIES WITH SOME SOLUTIONS ON A PATHWAY FORWARD.

SUZANNE, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME.

WE REALLY APPRECIATE IT.

>> THANK YOU, BREANNA.

>>> NOW WE TURN TO AN EXTRAORDINARY FIGURE MAKING AN IMPACT IN THE MEDICAL FIELD.

DR. CATALAN CARICO ENTER RESEARCH PARTNER WERE AWARDED THE NOBEL PRIZE IN MEDICINE LAST MONTH FOR THEIR GROUNDBREAKING WORK ON TECHNOLOGY, A VITAL INGREDIENT IN COVID-19 VACCINES.

SHE JOINS HARI SREENIVASAN TO DISCUSS THIS MILESTONE IN HER NEW MEMOIR, RAKING THROUGH, MY LIFE IN SCIENCE.

>> Reporter: THINK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

FOR THOSE OF US WHO MAY HAVE BEEN UNDER A ROCK , WE'VE GOT ONE OF THE GREATEST HONORS, WHICH IS THE NOBEL PRIZE IN MEDICINE, FOR YOUR WORK AND MESSENGER RNA.

MESSENGER RNA MAY HAVE GOTTEN INTO THE PULP CULTURE, IT UNFORTUNATELY TOOK US A PANDEMIC TO KNOW WHAT THAT WAS.

BUT IF YOU CAN DESCRIBE, WHAT IS IT THAT YOU AND YOUR RESEARCHERS DID TO WIN THIS PRIZE?

>> WE DID NOT INVENT THIS, IT IS IN OUR BODY.

WHAT HAPPENED IS IT REDUCES RNA.

IT WAS NOT VISIBLE FOR MEDICAL USE BECAUSE IT CAUSED INFLAMMATION.

WHAT WE DID, AMYLASE MADE FROM FOR BASIC BUILDING BLOCKS, AND WE HAVE CHANGED ONE OF THEM.

AND THAT BECAME THIS MESSENGER RNA.

THAT IS WHAT WE ARE SEEING IN THE BIOTECH PFIZER VACCINE.

>> THIS WAS AN UNDERLYING TECHNOLOGY ISSUE THAT WAS ADAPTED AND USED THROUGHOUT THE PANDEMIC.

THAT IS AN ENORMOUS WIN UNTO ITSELF.

BUT WHAT IS THE POTENTIAL WITH THE TECHNOLOGY THAT YOU HELPED EFFECT?

WHAT IS MESSENGER RNA, AND WHAT IS IS GOING TO BE ABLE TO DO OVERTIME?

>> THE MESSENGER RNA AND THE TECHNOLOGY WAS INFORMED 20 YEARS AGO, MORE THAN 20 YEARS AGO.

TRYING TO DIVVY UP A VACCINE FOR TREATMENT.

THAT IS HOW IT WAS STILL OUT.

OF COURSE, NOW THAT WE HAVE THAT ARE DATA NOW AND MORE PROMISING RESULTS.

BUT IT WAS ALSO USED FOR THERAPY.

TO DELIVER A COACH FOR A THERAPEUTIC -- PRESENT IN THE BODY BUT NOT IN THE RIGHT PLACE OR NOT ENOUGH.

GENETIC DISEASES ALSO BEING TREATED RIGHT NOW, IN CLINICAL TRIAL, MORE THAN 250 CLINICAL TRIALS ARE ONGOING WHERE MESSENGER RNA IS USED FOR THERAPIES.

THAT WOULD MEAN MORE VACCINES, VACCINES AGAINST VIRUSES, LIKE BACTERIA CAUSING LYME DISEASE.

AND EVEN PARASITES, LIKE FROM MALARIA.

AGAIN, OF COURSE, CANCER AS WELL AS THESE OTHER THERAPEUTIC MOLECULES.

THERE IS A PLATFORM.

MORE AND MORE WILL BE TAKEN UP.

>> Reporter: YOU HAVE A NEW MEMOIR OUT , WHICH IS FANTASTIC.

IT IS CALLED BREAKING THROUGH.

IN IT, YOU WERE DESCRIBING AS YOU CAN UP AS A SCIENTIST, YOUR MOTHER WAS WAITING FOR YOUR NAME TO BE READ OVER THE RADIO AS A WINNER OF THE NOBEL PRIZE.

>> YES, INDEED.

BUT IT WAS 10 OR 20 YEARS AGO.

COMING IN OCTOBER, SHE SAID NEXT WEEK, MAYBE YOU WILL GET THE NOBEL PRIZE.

I TOLD HER THAT IT WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN.

BUT SHE THOUGHT THAT I WROTE SO MUCH IN THAT I SHOULD DESERVE IT.

BUT I CONVINCED HER THAT ALL SCIENTISTS ARE WORKING VERY HARD.

>> Reporter: LET ME TAKE OUR VIEWERS BACK A LITTLE BIT THROUGH YOUR LIFE IN THIS BOOK .

IT IS ACCURATE TO SAY THAT YOU GREW UP AND LITERALLY DIRT POOR SURROUNDINGS.

IF YOU COULD TELL US A BIT ABOUT WHAT YOUR HOME WAS LIKE.

AS A PERSON WHO WAS HUNGRY, HE DESCRIBED A SCENARIO WHERE YOU DID NOT HAVE RUNNING WATER.

>> YES.

BUT FOR ME, IT WAS A PARADISE.

WE HAD THE GARDEN, WE HAD THE ANIMALS THERE, CHICKEN, PIGS.

WE HAD BEAUTIFUL FLOWERS THERE.

OF COURSE, YOU KNOW, EVERYBODY IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD WENT TO GET WATER TO THE STREET, AND THAT WAS WHEN WE TALKED TO EACH OTHER AND CHECKED IN THERE.

>> THE WATERPUMP OF THE VILLAGE WAS THE VILLAGE CHAT ROOM.

>> EXACTLY.

IN OUR CLASSROOMS, MORE THAN 50 KIDS IN ONE CLASS.

BUT WE WERE QUIET AND WE HAD TO LISTEN.

IT SEEMS LIKE, YOU KNOW, IT WAS VERY DEPRIVED.

THE TEACHERS WERE GREAT.

WE HAD NO TELEVISION, NO FURNITURE, NOTHING.

BUT WE DID NOT KNOW WHAT OTHER PEOPLE HAD IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD.

BUT NATURE SURROUNDED US.

IT WAS INTERESTING.

EVERYTHING IS COMING BACK.

YOU KNOW, THE BIRDS.

WE HAD CHICKENS, WE DO NOT NURTURE THOSE.

WE TOOK THEIR EGGS, AND THE HEN WAS SITTING RIGHT THERE, WE COULD SEE THE CHICKENS COMING OUT FROM THE EGGS.

>> Reporter: WHAT DO YOU THINK INSPIRED YOUR INTEREST IN EDUCATION?

>> YES, INDEED.

AS I MENTIONED, MY SISTER WAS THREE YEARS OLD.

WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOUR SISTER IS STUDYING WELL AND EVERYBODY IN THE VILLAGE EXPECTS THAT YOU WILL BE GOOD AS WELL.

I HAD TO BE GOOD BECAUSE THEY EXPECTED IT.

OF COURSE, YOU KNOW, I WAS CHALLENGED WITH A DIFFERENT COMPETITION IN WHICH WE COULD PARTICIPATE, I COULD LEARN.

AND I WAS WINNING A LITTLE.

EVENTUALLY, IN EIGHTH GRADE, I WAS INTERESTED IN THE COUNTRY BIOLOGY.

SO THAT IS HOW IT STARTED.

>> Reporter: YOU TALK INTERESTINGLY ABOUT SOME OF THE FIRST TIMES YOU WERE WATCHING TV AND BINGE WATCHING AMERICAN WESTERN TELEVISION.

IN ONE OF THE SHOWS THAT KEEP COMING UP IN THIS MEMOIR IS COLOMBO.

THE FUMBLING DETECTIVE SHOW BACK IN THE 70s.

WHY COLOMBO?

WHAT DOES IT HAVE TO DO WITH THE SCIENTIFIC METHOD THAT HAS HELPED DEFINE YOUR LIFE?

>> YES.

WHAT HAPPENED IN COLOMBO, WE KNEW WHO COMMITTED THE CRIME.

BUT LOOKING AT THIS THING, YOU KNOW, THIS IS HOW THINGS HAPPEN.

AND THEN YOU LOOK AT CLOSURE AND EVERYTHING FIT.

A CLUE THERE, IT IS NOT SITTING THERE.

WHAT THEY CALL A -- THE PATIENT COMES THERE, YOU SEE THE SIGN, AND YOU CONCLUDE WHAT IS WRONG.

ONE THING IS NOT FITTING.

AND THAT IS WHAT IS IMPORTANT.

YOU NEVER IGNORE THAT LITTLE THING.

BECAUSE COLOMBO SHOWED IT.

THIS LITTLE THING WOULD LEAD YOU TO THE RIGHT PERPETRATOR, SOLUTION, OR ANSWER.

>> Reporter: TELL ME ABOUT THE DECISION YOU MADE TO TRY TO COME TO THE UNITED STATES FOR ACADEMIC OPPORTUNITY .

WHY DID YOU MAKE THAT LEAP IN THE FIRST PLACE, COMPARED TO THE LABORATORIES THAT YOU ARE WORKING IN?

>> I LOST MY POSITION THERE.

WE LOST THE FUNDING FOR THE RESEARCH WE WERE DOING IN A HUNGRY .

I WAS NOT TERMINATED IN MY POSITION, OR ELSE WE WOULD NOT TALK TODAY.

BECAUSE IT WAS PART OF IT.

IT IS VERY IMPORTANT THAT I EMPHASIZE THAT, YOU KNOW, THE DECISION WASN'T MADE, AND I DID NOT SPEND TIME FEELING SORRY FOR MYSELF, BUT RATHER FOCUS THAN WHAT I SHOULD DO NEXT.

AND THAT WAS THE MANTRA OF THE HUNGARIAN SCIENTIST, WHAT HE SAID.

OH, YOU CAN HANDLE STRESS BUT YOU FOCUS ON WHAT YOU CANNOT CHANGE.

WHEN I WAS IN HIGH SCHOOL, AGAIN, IF I HAD ALREADY READ THE BOOK, WE WOULD NOT BE TALKING HERE.

BECAUSE WE LEARNED HOW TO HANDLE THE STRESS AND FOCUS ON THINGS WE CAN CHANGE.

EVERYTHING, YOU HAVE TO RECEIVE THE -- TRYING TO MAKE MY LIFE MISERABLE.

BECAUSE I WORK HARDER AND I GET IMPROVED.

>> Reporter: YOU POINTED OUT THAT EVEN THOUGH YOU PUBLISHED YOUR RESEARCH WITH DREW WISEMAN YEARS BEFORE THE PANDEMIC, IT REALLY WAS NOT CITED HUNDRED THOUSANDS OF TIMES UNTIL THE PANDEMIC HIT.

THAT IS WHEN PEOPLE STARTED TO MIGHT -- THERE MAY HAVE BEEN SO OTHER -- HAS COME UNTIL WE ARE FORCED TO START LOOKING FOR ANSWERS.

>> THAT IS HOW SCIENCE IS.

ME AND HUNGRY , WHEN IT STARTED TO WORK, IT IS SOMEBODY IN THE ACADEMIA COMING IN.

IT IS USUALLY THE OPPOSITE.

FROM THE FIRST DAY, WHAT YOU ARE DOING HAS TO BE USEFUL FOR SOMETHING.

WE ARE THINKING, WHAT WOULD IT BE USEFUL FOR?

YOU KNOW, I AM DOING SOMETHING.

AND MANY SCIENTISTS ARE THINKING OF THE SAME WAY.

I MEAN, MORE AND MORE COMPANIES WERE CREATED IN THE UNIVERSITY SETTING.

SO THAT IS THE WAY TO RECOGNIZE.

WE PUBLISHED IN 2006, WHEN WE MADE THE COMPANY.

BUT WE COULD NOT GET THE PACKET FOR OUR COMPANY.

THAT IS MAYBE ANOTHER ONE.

OUR COMPANY QUICKLY -- THE COUNTRY.

>> Reporter: A LOT OF PEOPLE WONDER ABOUT HOW THE INFRASTRUCTURE, IF IT IS NECESSARY TO PRODUCE THE TYPE OF WORK AND THE PACE OF WORK THAT YOU ARE ABLE TO PRODUCE OVER THE YEARS.

WE ATTRIBUTE A LOT OF THAT TO HER SUPPORTIVE HUSBAND.

WE ALSO NEED BETTER CHILDCARE.

>> HIGH POLITY.

IT WOULD BE VERY IMPORTANT TO HAVE HERE.

I WAS LUCKY, AND HUNGRY, WHEN MY DAUGHTER WAS BORN IN 1992, THREE MONTHS LATER, I TOOK HER TO THE TRICARE CENTER.

YOU KNOW, THAT WAS GOING TO WORK.

AND THEN COME BACK, PICK HER UP, THEY DID NOT PROVIDE CLOSER FOOD, THEY JUST PROVIDED THE VACCINE.

THE NURSE WAS PRESENT IN IT.

AND EVERY DAY, THE PEDIATRICIAN CAME TO THE NURSE, AND I COULD LEAVE A MESSAGE.

AND THEY CAN EITHER SAY YEAH, IT IS NORMAL.

OR YOU CAN GO TO A SPECIALIST.

WHEN I WALKED, I THOUGHT I WAS RELAXED.

I KNOW PROFESSIONALS ARE THERE WITH MY SHOT.

YOU KNOW, I DO NOT HAVE TO WORRY THAT THIS WAS AN OLD LADY, MAYBE SHE WOULD GET SICK, AND THEN MIGHT TRIBE IS NOT ATTENDING.

AND A NOMINAL FEE.

IT WAS JUST A NOMINAL FEE BASED ON HOW MUCH INCOME I HAVE AND HOW MUCH YOU HAVE TO PAY.

YOU KNOW, IF SOMEONE IS NOT FAST ENOUGH TO GET A NANNY, THEY WILL NOT BE ABLE TO CLICK AWAY.

THEY GIVE UP THE DREAM, THE JOB, AND THEY TAKE A LOWER LEVEL OF JOB BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, EVERYBODY IS LOOKING AT US.

OF COURSE, WE ALSO FEEL, OKAY, WE HAVE TO DO IT.

I HAVE TO STAY HOME, I HAVE TO HELP MY ELDERLY PARENTS OR SO ON.

THE BUILT NOT GOING UP.

SO THE OTHER YOUNG GIRLS THAT FIND THE RIGHT HUSBAND.

[ LAUGHTER ] >> HOW DID YOU FEEL ABOUT OUR NATIONAL, IN THE UNITED STATES, OUR CONVERSATION ABOUT SCIENCE OF THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS OF THE PANDEMIC?

THERE IS SUCH A GAP BETWEEN WHAT PEOPLE KNOW AND WHAT THEY WOULD NEED TO KNOW TO FULLY UNDERSTAND THE VACCINES AND MEDICINES THAT SAVE LIVES.

THAT GAP RIGHT NOW IS WIDE OPEN FOR EXPLOITATION.

WE MUST SOMEHOW CLOSE IT.

EVEN THOUGH THE VACCINES OR SAVING LIVES AND YOU COULD SEE THAT RESULT, THERE WAS STILL SUCH A DEBATE ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT THE VACCINES WORKED.

>> AFTER THAT WAS ABSOLUTELY SURPRISING FOR ME.

I REMEMBER WHEN I WAS GROWING UP IN HUNGRY , WE HAD THE VACCINE FOR MANY DIFFERENT THINGS, AND WE WERE HAPPY THAT WE HAD VACCINES, SO THAT WE WOULD BE PROTECTED.

I HAVE TO SAY THAT WHEN PEOPLE DO NOT UNDERSTAND SOMETHING, YOU KNOW, THEY TRY TO COME UP WITH SOMETHING, OR THEY ARE READING SOMETHING ANTHONY COMES UP WITH A STUPID IDEA, AND THEY JUST BELIEVE THEM.

BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, YOU SEE A STORM AND, YOU KNOW, EVEN A LONG TIME AGO, THEY SAID THE SKY IS ANGRY.

SO WE NEED EXPLANATIONS.

THEY START TO BELIEVE THAT HAPPENED.

SOMEBODY PUT A CHIP IN THE VACCINE, SO HE WANTS TO KILL US, SO HE WANTS TO FOLLOW US.

AND I DO NOT KNOW THIS, WHY SOME PEOPLE ARE SO SENSITIVE TO THIS KIND OF DISTORTED VIEW.

BUT WHAT I THINK MAYBE WHAT PSYCHOLOGISTS IN DIFFERENT SCIENCE FIELDS, THEY NEED TO COME UP WITH A SOLUTION, HOW WE COULD FIGHT MISINFORMATION.

>> IS THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES COMES TO YOU AND ASKS YOU FOR ADVICE ON PREPARING FOR WHAT MIGHT BE THE NEXT PANDEMIC, WHAT WOULD YOUR PRESCRIPTION BE?

IS IT SCIENCE EDUCATION, ABOUT MISINFORMATION ALONG WITH THE ACTUAL HARD SCIENCE?

WHERE SHOULD WE BE INVESTING OUR TIME AND RESOURCES IN PREPARING?

>> DEFINITELY.

THAT IS WHY I OFFERED MY TIME FOR EDUCATION, TO TALK TO THE REPORTERS.

TOGETHER, WE HAVE TO SOMEHOW SIMPLIFY THE LANGUAGE, WHICH IS, YOU KNOW, SCIENCE USES TERMS THAT NO OTHER FIELD USES.

YOU SEE, NOT JUST THE NNRA PEOPLE, BUT PCR.

THEY CAN LEARN AND THEN THEY HAVE SOME IDEA OF WHAT IT COULD BE.

WE HAVE TO HAVE THEM.

OF COURSE, THE NEXT PANDEMIC, MNRA, WE CAN RESPOND VERY QUICKLY.

BUT THE GAP IS SO HUGE.

AND THOSE PEOPLE PROVIDING THIS INFORMATION, THEY ACTUALLY BENEFITED FROM THAT.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR TALKING TO US.

CONGRATULATIONS AGAIN ON THE NOBEL PRIZE.

>> THANK YOU, THANK YOU.

>> WHAT AN INCREDIBLE WOMAN.

FINALLY, LOST AND FOUND.

THESE NEW PHOTOS PROVE THAT THIS FUNNY LOOKING MEMO IS NOT EXTINCT AFTER ALL.

AFTER BEING REDISCOVERED BY SCIENTISTS IN THE MOUNTAINS OF NEW GUINEA, THE EDINBURGH ALONG THE AGENDA, NAMED AFTER THE FAMOUS DECK MENTORING MAKER, HAS THE CLOSE OF A HEDGEHOG, THE SNOUT OF AN ANT EATER, AND THE FEET OF A MOLE.

LOOK AT THAT LITTLE BANDIT.

THESE LIVING FOSSILS ROAMED THE EARTH WITH DINOSAURS 200 MILLION YEARS AGO.

A REMINDER THAT HUMANITY IS A MERE SPECK ON EARTH'S GREAT LIFESPAN.

THAT IS IT FOR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.

IF YOU WANT TO FIND OUT WHAT IS COMING UP ON THE SHOW EACH NIGHT, SIGN UP FOR OUR NEWSLETTER.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR WATCHING AMANPOUR & COMPANY ON PBS.

JOIN US AGAIN NEXT TIME .