TON ON THE "GREATER BOSTON," TURKEY, STUFFING, PIE AND ANXIETY ABOUT HOW TO HANDLE UNVACCINATED FAMILY MEMBERS, I'M JOINED BY A LOCAL CRITICAL CARE PHYSICIAN AND TOP VACCINE ADVOCACY IN EDUCATION EXPERT ON HOW TO HANDLE THOSE AWKWARD CONVERSATIONS ABOUT COVID SAFETY, THEN LATER TWO INDIGENOUS FILMMAKERS ARE HERE TO TALK ABOUT THE NEW DOCUMENTARY BOUNTY WHICH DETAILS THE GRIM HISTORY OF SCALPING BOWNTIES THAT STARTED IN THE LATE 1600S, THE LEGACY OF WHICH LIVES ON TODAY MUCH.

WITHIN BOOSTER SHOTS FOR ALL ADULTS COULD BE AVAILABLE BY THANKSGIVING AFTER PFIZER ASKED THE FDA FOR EMERGENCY APPROVAL THIS WEEK.

MODERNA IS EXPECTED TO DO THE SAME IN THE COMING WEEKS.

AS NEW DATA FROM U.S. AND CANADIAN STUDIES SHOW PROTECTION FROM BOTH SHOTS AGAINST MODERATE TO SEVERE COVID SYMPTOMS DECLINE SOME WHAT SIX OR MORE MONTHS OUT.

BUT WHILE MANY OF US ARE LOOKING AHEAD TO A THIRD ROUND OF SHOTS, MANY OTHERS ARE STILL FIGHTING OVER THE FIRST.

A COALITION OF TEN STATES FILED A LAWSUIT AGAINST PRESIDENT BIDEN TO END HIS ADMINISTRATION AND HIS ADMINISTRATION YESTERDAY IN AN EFFORT TO HALT THE FEDERAL VACCINE MANDATE FOR MOST HEALTH CARE WORKERS AND OVER THE WEEKEND A FEDERAL JUDGE TEMPORARILY BLOCKED BIDEN'S MANDATE FOR VACCINATION OR WEEKLY TESTING FOR ALL PRIVATE BUSINESSES IN THE U.S. WITH MORE THAN 100 EMPLOYEES.

AND ALTHOUGH A NEW POLL SHOWS 80% OF ADULTS IN THE U.S. HAVE GOTTEN AT LEAST ONE DOSE OF THE VACCINE, 13 PERCENT SAY THEY WILL LIKELY NEVER GET THE SHOT.

NOW I ASSUME THAT GROUP INCLUDES GREEN BAY PACKERS QUARTERBACK AARON RODGERS.

HE WAS FINED THIS WEEK BY THE NFL AFTER HE TESTED POSITIVE FOR COVID, FOR BREAKING THE LEAGUE'S SAFETY PROTOCOLS BY ATTENDING A PARTY DESPITE BEING UNVACCINATED.

A STATUS HE ADMITTED HE MISLEAD MANY PEOPLE ABOUT.

I GUESS THE 13 PERCENT ALSO INCLUDES MANY OF THE PEOPLE BEHIND THE BAFFLING BACKLASH OVER BIG BIRD.

YES, THAT BIG BIRD.

TALKING ABOUT GETTING HIS SHOT.

>> I FEEL OKAY.

MY WING HURTS A LITTLE BIT BUT THAT'S OKAY.

YOU KNOW, I WAS SCARED.

BUT IT DID GO BY REALLY QUICKLY.

>> AND BY GETTING THE VACCINE YOU'LL BE HELPING KEEP YOURSELF, OUR FRIENDS AND NEIGHBORS AND ME SAFE AND HEALTHY.

>> TED CRUZ CALLING THAT PROPAGANDA.

WELL, MANY OF US HAVE PEOPLE WE KNOW AND LOVE AND THEY MIGHT BE IN THAT REFUSE TO BE VACCINATED GROUP.

SO WITH THE HOLIDAYS RIGHT AROUND THE CORNER, HOW DO WE HANDLE THE BALANCE OF SAFETY AND HARMONY AT THE HOLIDAY TABLE?

JOINING ME TO HELP NAVIGATE THOSE TOUGH CONVERSATIONS ARE DR.

LACK SCHMAN SWAMY A KRATY CARE PHYSICIAN AND INSTRUCTOR AT HARVARD MEDICAL SCHOOL AND AMY PISANI, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF VACCINATE YOUR FAMILY AND ADVOCACY AND EDUCATION NONPROFIT COSPOWRCHEDDED BY FORMER FIRST LADY ROSALYNN CARTER.

WELCOME TO BOTHER OF YOU, AND HAPPY HOLIDAYS, HERE WE GO, WE ARE GATHERED AROUND THE TABLE.

I'M GOING TO START WITH YOU, AMY.

WE WERE CHATTING BEFORE THE SHOW STARTED, ALL OF US ABOUT HOW LAST YEAR WE WERE DESPERATE TO SEE EACH OTHER AND WE WEREN'T ABLE TO BECAUSE WE WERE DESPERATE FOR A VACCINE.

AND NOW HERE WE ARE, MANY OF US, THE MAJORITY OF US VACCINATED, BUT WE STILL HAVE THESE HOLD OUTS.

WHAT IS UP WITH PEOPLE?

>> YOU KNOW, IT'S CONFUSING AND I THINK IT'S REALLY MORE DIFFICULT WHEN IT IT COMES TO YOUR OWN FAMILY.

BECAUSE YOU WANT IT TO BE RESPECTFUL AND YOU LOVE YOUR FAMILY MEMBERS.

BUT AS A CAREGIVER OF YOUR OWN CHILDREN AND YOUR OWN FAMILY IT'S REALLY YOUR PRIMARY RESPONSIBILITY JUST TO KEEP YOUR NUCLEAR FAMILY SAFE.

AND SO THESE DIFFICULT CONVERSATIONS, I THINK, WE'RE GOING TO BE MOVING TOWARDS.

BUT YOU HAVE TO HAVE AN ANSWER IN TOW, AND FOR ME IS IF YOU ARE NOT VACCINATED, I'M SORRY, YOU CAN'T COME INTO MY HOUSE.

>> DR. SWAMY, WE ARE ALSO TALKING ABOUT GOING TO PEOPLE'S HOUSES, AND FAMILY MEMBERS AND FRIENDS.

AGAIN WE WANT TO BE CLEAR THAT THE BREAKTHROUGH INFECTIONS ARE RARE.

AND IF YOU ARE ONE OF THE UNLUCKY FEW TO GET A BREAKTHROUGH INFECTION, YOU ARE LESS LIKELY IT TO DIE FROM IT OR BE HOSPITALIZED FROM IT.

BUT YOU ARE STILL, MANY OF US, GOING TO MORE GROCERY STORES, TRAVELING BY AIR, IN CARS WITH PEOPLE FOR LONG PERIODS OF TIME.

THERE IS STILL RISK OUT THERE EVEN FOR SOMEONE LIKE ME WHO HAS GOTTEN ALL OF MY VACCINATIONS AND THE BOOSTER, RIGHT?

>> YEAH, YOU KNOW, THAT'S EXACTLY RIGHT, UNFORTUNATELY THERE IS STILL RISK BUT THE VACCINES ARE INCREDIBLY EFFECTIVE AND OFF OFFER A HUGE AMOUNT OF PROTECTION, EVEN JUST HAVING GOTTEN THE TWO DOSES FOR MANY OF MY FRIENDS AND FAMILY, I FEEL CONFIDENT THAT THEY ARE SAFE.

AND THAT THEY CAN REALLY, THEY REALLY CAN ENGAGE IN A LOT OF ASPECTS OF SEMINORMAL LIFE, RIGHT.

I MEAN I THINK THAT WE HAVE MADE LEAPS AND BOUNDS IN WHAT I WOULD CONSIDER EXTREMELY SAFE COMPARED TO LAST YEAR.

SO ALTHOUGH THAT RISK EXISTS, I THINK BEING VACCINATED DOES SO, SO MUCH TO PROTECT US.

>> AND AMY, I WANT TO TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT NEGOTIATING THE FAMILY DYNAMICS A BIT.

YOU KNOW, IN A GOOD YEAR, I DON'T KNOW THAT WE ALL TRUST OUR FAMILY 100 PERCENT TO TELL US THE TRUST, THAT IS WHY WE HAVE PRENEWSPAPER ALL AGREEMENTS, WHY WILLS ARE CONTESTED IN COURT.

THERE IS A LONG HISTORY OF HUMANITY FIGHTING WITH FAMILY OVER THINGS THEY THOUGHT THEY WERE GOING TO GET OR BONDS, WORDS THAT WERE GIVEN TO EACH OTHER.

YOU KNOW, BUT AT THE SAME TIME I WAS OUT ON THE STREETS INTERVIEWING FOLKS ABOUT THIS, THIS WEEK.

AND THE AMOUNT OF SADNESS THAT CAME OUT FROM PEOPLE SHARING HOW THEY WERE JUST SO DISAPPOINTED THAT EITHER THEIR FAMILY WASN'T GOING TO IT BE OPEN WITH THEM, THEY DIDN'T TRUST THEM, OR THEY WEREN'T GOING TO GO BECAUSE YOU AS YOU SAID, THEY JUST, IF YOU COULDN'T PROVE YOU WERE VACCINATED OR DO A DAILY TEST, WE WEREN'T GOING TO GET TOGETHER.

HOW CAN WE KIND OF REPRESENT THAT TO PEOPLE WHO MAY BE HESITANT OR RELUCTANT OR REFUSE COMPLETELY TO GET THE VACCINATION?

>> WELL, IT IS ALL ABOUT TRUST AND MESSENGERS.

AND I KNOW WE HAVE BEEN HEARING THAT, REALLY.

IT ST ALMOST LIKE YOU DON'T WANT TO HEAR IT ANY MORE.

BUT THE TRUTH OF THE MATTER IS EVERY COMMUNITY HAS THEIR OWN TRUSTED MESSENGERS.

AND IT IS REALLY THE BATTLES AT THE COMMUNITY LEVEL.

WE CAN'T JUST COME IN ON HIGH AND FRANKLY, THE MANDATES MAY BE MAKING PEOPLE A LITTLE MORE RETICENT.

I THINK WE NEEDED MAYBE A LITTLE MORE TIME TO HAVE THESE CONVERSATIONS BEFORE THESE MANDATES HAPPENED.

AND I APPRECIATE-- I APPRECIATE THE MEANING BEHIND THE MANDATES AND I MOW IT IT WAS AN EFFORT TO GET PEOPLE VACCINATED THAT WERE NOT WILLING.

BUT MILLIONS OF DOLLARS WERE SPENT ON RESEARCH LAST YEAR TO TRY TO HELP US UNDERSTAND HOW TO SPEAK TO SOMEONE WHO MAY BE HESITANT TO GET VACCINATED.

AND WE KNOW NOW THE ANSWERS.

BUT IT SEEMS LIKE EVERYONE HAS REALLY DUG AM ALONG THE POLITICAL LINES AND IT IS REALLY UNFORTUNATE.

>> AMY, I WANT TO FOLLOW UP ON THAT FURTHER, BECAUSE IT ST AN INTERESTING POINT WHICH I HADN'T CONSIDERED UNTIL THIS WEEK WHERE THIS PUSH TO MANDATE, WHICH HAVE I BEEN FOR RKZ AND I HAVE BEEN PUSHING FOR AND SUPPORTING, BUT IT IT MAY ACTUALLY MOVE, IF THAT IS POSSIBLE, THE DISCUSSION OF VACCINATION INTO AN EVEN MORE POLITICAL REALM THAN IT IS ALREADY.

IS THERE-- IS IT IT TOO LATE FOR THAT NOW OR SHOULD WE JUST STIRL KEEP WORKING ON THE NONPOLITICAL MESSAGE OF IT'S SCIENCE AND IT'S A VACCINE THAT'S SAFE.

AND YOU SHOULD PROTECT YOUR FAMILY, OR ARE WE JUST IN THAT POLITICAL WORLD NOW FOREVER WITH IT?

>> I HOPE I'M NOT IN THERE FOREVER.

WE DO KNOW THAT IT TENDS TO BE ON THE FAR END OF THE POLITICAL SPECTRUM STVMENT NOT ONE SIDE OR THE OTHER, IT IT IS PEOPLE AT THE FAR END.

SO IF YOU ARE A DEMOCRAT, FAR LEFT, IF YOU ARE A REPUBLICAN, VERY CONSERVATIVE.

THEY TENDED IT TO BE A LITTLE BIT MORE, THEY QUESTION VACCINES MORE, SO IT IS NOT A PARTY LINE NECESSARILY THAT WE ARE HEARING THE NEWS.

IN MY OPINION, THOUGH, I JUST FEEL LIKE WE JUST JUMPED AHEAD A LITTLE BIT TOO QUICKLY.

WE ONLY HAD THE VACCINE AVAILABLE FOR A COUPLE OF MONTHS.

WE WERE DOING REALLY WELL.

EVERYONE WAS GUNNING HO TO GET VACCINATED.

AND NEXT THING YOU YOU KNOW ALL OF OUR EFFORTS WERE KIND OF HALTED AND ALL THE WORK WE WERE DOING AT THE STRAD ADVOCACY LEVEL, NOW WE ARE JUST FIGHTING THIS POLITICAL BATTLE.

I HOPE WE CAN GO BACKYARDS AND GET BACK ON TRACK, I HOPE IT ST NOT BECAUSE PEOPLE START DYING AGAIN.

BUT THAT SEEMS TO BE WHAT MOVES PEOPLE, WHEN THEY FIND SOMEONE THEY KNOW, IT IS LIKE PEOPLE HAVE TO HAVE THEIR OWN EXPERIENCES TO TRILLION UNDERSTAND IT.

THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND STATISTICS.

>> IN THEIR BRAIN.

>> YEAH.

IF WE COMPARED THE COVID VACCINES TO THE FLU VACCINE, RIGHT, AND THAT IS NOT A MANDATORY VACCINE FOR KIDS OR LOTS OF HEALTH WORKERS UNTIL RECENTLY.

I KNOW SOME HOSPITALS WOULD REQUIRE IT.

BUT IT'S BEEN A MAJOR SUCCESS.

WE HAVE HAD AN AMAZING AMOUNT OF COMPLIANCE IN PEOPLE VOLUNTEERING TO TAKE THE COVID VACCINE, COMPARED TO THE FLU VACCINE, WHICH YOU KNOW, AM A NORMAL YEAR KILLS, THE FLU KILLS 20,000 TO 65,000, AND MANY PEOPLE DON'T GET THE FLU VACCINE WHICH HAS BEEN AROUND FOR MANY, MANY YEARS.

ARE WE MISSING THE MESSAGING ON THAT WHEN WE ARE TALKING TO FOLKS WHO AREN'T GETTING VACCINATED, LIKE LOOK IT IT, WE ARE ALL ON BOARD HERE, THIS IS A GREAT SUCCESS?

>> I THINK WE ARE MISSING THE MESSAGE A LITTLE BIT.

IT'S ARING TO COMPARE IT TO FLU VACCINATION BECAUSE THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO COULDN'T GET THE FLU VACCINE.

THE DIFFERENCE IS THAT YOU DON'T HAVE THE FLU KIND OF LIKE BURN LIKE WILDFIRE THROUGH AN EXPOSED POPULATION THE WAY YOU DO WITH COVID.

AND WE HAVE SEEN THAT SO MUCH, RIGHT?

I REALLY THINK WHAT IT COMES DOWN TO IS EXACTLY THIS POINT OF COMMUNITIES BUT I MEAN MAYBE I'M BIASED HERE BUT I THINK A LOT OF THIS HAS TO DO WE NEED TO CONNECT PEOPLE WITH THEIR PRIMARY CARE DOCTORS, PEOPLE NEED TO BE TALKING TO HEALTH CARE PROFESSIONALS IN THEIR LIVES.

CAN DO I SAY THAT?

I MEAN IF YOU ARE HAVING CHEST PAIN AT HOME, YOU'RE NOT JUST GOING TO SIT THERE AND ENDURE IT, YOU ARE GOING TO CALL FOR HELP, YOU ARE GOING TO GO TO IT THE EMERGENCY ROOM, CALL YOUR DOCTOR, SAME WITH SHORTNESS OF BREATHE, ARE YOU HAVING PAIN OF WHATEVER KIND, YOU ARE NOT LOOKING TO THE INTERNET FOR SOLUTIONS, YOU FEEL THE EMERGENCY.

AND I THINK IF YOU TRUST US THEN, TRUST US WITH THIS.

SO JUST CALL THE DOCTOR THAT YOU ALREADY KNOW.

AND IF YOU DON'T KNOW ONE, NOW IS THE BEST TIME TO SET THAT UP TOO.

>> AMY, I WANT TO BUILD OFF THAT, BECAUSE ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I THINK ANOTHER ONE OF THE INEQUITIES THAT WE'VE DISCOVERED DURING THIS PANDEMIC IS HOW MANY PEOPLE DON'T, THAT HAVE ACCESS, HAVE INSURANCE, HAVE PRIVILEGE, HAVE ALL THE ABILITIES AND TOOL KIT TO HAVE A DOCTOR DON'T HAVE A DOCTOR.

AND I WAS STRUCK A LOT BY THE MESSAGING TO YOUNG ADULTS, GO TALK TO YOUR DOCTOR.

AND MANY YOUNG ADULTS DON'T HAVE A DOCTOR.

AND WON'T HAVE A DOCTOR UNTIL THEY'RE SICK OR YOU KNOW, TRYING TO GET PREGNANT OR ANY NUMBER OF THINGS THAT HAPPEN WHEN YOU ARE IN YOUR LATE 20S OR EARLY 30S.

IS THERE AN OPPORTUNITY HERE FOR MESSAGING TO PEOPLE ABOUT GETTING CONNECTED WITH A PRIMARY CARE PHYSICIAN, WHO YOU SEE OR CONNECT WITH ONCE A YEAR TO HOPEFULLY REDUCE THE AMOUNT OF OTHER CHRONIC ILLNESSES THAT WE HAVE WHICH ARE PREVENTIBLE.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

YOU KNOW, THE VACCINES FOR CHILDREN PROGRAM PROVIDES FREE VACCINES TO CHILDREN WHO CAN'T AFFORD THEM UP TO AGE 18.

AND IT HAS BEEN SUCH AN AMAZING OPPORTUNITY FOR OUR COUNTRY, IT IT ALMOST ELIMINATED IS PARITIES AMONG CHILDREN.

WE DON'T HAVE THAT FOR ADULTS.

AND YOUNG A ULT DIDS, PARTICULARLY, YOU'RE RIGHT, THEY DON'T GO TO THE DOCTOR, THEY ARE NOT ILL VERY OFTEN BUT WHEN IT COMES TO COVID THE VACCINE IS FREE, ST AT EVERY PHARMACY, TO NOT GET A VACCINE FOR COVID AT THIS POINT IS REALLY JUST, YOU KNOW, IT'S AVAILABLE.

COMMUNITY HEALTH WORKERS ARE OUT THERE.

PARTICULARLY IN RURAL AREAS, ALL OF THESE CLINICS ARE OPEN.

THAT IS AN ENTREE AND THEY SHOULD BE ASKING, IT ST NOT JUST YOU NEED YOUR COVID VACCINE, WE MISSED MILLIONS OF DOSES OF HPV VACCINE LAST YEAR AND WE ARE LOOKING AT A CERVICAL AND ESOPHAGEAL CANCER DOWN THE ROAD, THERE ARE A LOT MEASLE WE'RE LOW ON MEASLES FOR OUR BABIES.

OUR COUNTRY IMMEDIATES TO WAKE UP.

>> SO DR. SWAMY, AS WE CLOSE HERE, JUST SOME TIPS, SO YOU GO IT TO THE RELATIVES, YOU CAN'T GET OUT OF IT.

YOU ARE VACCINATED, YOUR KIDS ARE VACCINATED.

YOU DON'T KNOW WHO IS OR ISN'T VACCINATED.

YOU HAVE ASKED THEM TO PROVE IT IT OR TELL YOU AND THEY ARE JUST GIVING YOU THE COLD SHOULDER.

SHOULD YOU KEEP YOUR MASK ON WHILE YOU ARE IN THE HOUSE FOR DINNER?

SHOULD YOU JUST GO BACK IT TO FRE VACCINE PROTOCOLS?

>> I THINK THIS IS A SITUATION THAT SO MANY OF US ARE GOING TO FIND OURSELVES IN.

WE'RE REALLY STRUGGLING WITH THESE FAMILY DYNAMICS.

WE FEEL THE PRESSURE.

WHAT I WOULD SAY IS YOU HAVE TO ASK YOURSELF, WILL I FEEL COMFORTABLE WITH MY KIDS IN THE SETTING.

IS THERE ANYWAY I CAN MAKE IT NOR COMFORTABLE.

I THINK IF YOU ARE GOING TO BE IN THOSE SETTINGS, HONESTLY, IF YOU WERE VACCINATED, THAT GOES A REALLY LONG WAY.

IT IT TWOOB WONDERFUL IF EVERYONE WAS, IT IT TWOO BE GREAT TO GET THE FIRST SHOT IN, I KNOW WE WON'T GET KIDS FULLY VACCINATED BY THANKSGIVING BUT AT LEAST THAT FIRST SHOT DOES OFFER SOME PROTECTION.

I WOULD SAY, YOU KNOW, YOU-- EVERY FAMILY, EVERY SITUATION IS DIFFERENT, I THINK ITS A'S VERY REASONABLE IF YOU ARE HAVING MULTIPLE FAMILIES TOGETHER TO BE WEARING MASKS.

IT IS AWKWARD BUT I THINK IT MAKES A LOT OF SENSE.

I THINK IT MAKES SENSE TO TRY TO VENT LATE BETTER IF YOU HAVE THE ABILITY TO HAVE THOSE AIR PURIFIERS TO DO ALL OF THAT STUFF.

IT DOES MAKE A DIFFERENCE BUT IT IS HARD.

IT IS HARD.

AND I THINK THAT IF, WHATEVER YOU CAN DO, IT IT DOES COUNT.

WHATEVER LITTLE BIT YOU DO MATTERS.

>> AND I IMAGINE IT IS ALSO IMPORTANT TO HAVE A POST EXPOSURE, EVEN IF YOU ARE NOT HAVING THESE SYMPTOMS, TESTING, AND IF YOU ARE TRAVELING HAVE A PLAN OF HOW YOU WILL QUARANTINE IF YOU HAVE TO IF YOU ARE OUT OF TOWN, RIGHT.

>> YEAH, I THINK ESPECIALLY WITH MORE AND MORE PEOPLE REASONING TO THE OFFICE AND ALL OF THAT, I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND THAT YOU MAY BE PUTTING YOURSELF IN HIGHER LEVELS OF RISK, ESPECIALLY, YOU KNOW, WE'RE LUCKY IN BOSTON AND MASSACHUSETTS.

WE'RE PRETTY LUCKY, RIGHT.

WE'VE HAD IT BETTER THAN MOSES OTHER STATES.

AND I THINK AS WE GATHER WITH PEOPLE FROM THOSE STATES, WE HAVE TO BE CONSCIENCE THAT THIS IS REALLY SOMETHING DIFFERENT, THAT WE ARE ENCOUNTERING, YOU KNOW, DIFFERENT POPULATIONS HERE, AND WE SHOULD PROBABLY TAKE EXTRA CARE.

>> ALL RIGHT, I HOPE THAT YOU BOTH HAVE A JOYOUS HOLIDAY SEASON SAND SAFEnd I APPRECIATE YOU JOINING US WITH YOUR EXPERTISE DR. SWAMY AND AMY PISANI, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

OF COURSE WITH TALK OF THANKSGIVING ALSO COMES THE DARK AND COMPLICATED HISTORY ASSOCIATED WITH THE HOLIDAY, ESPECIALLY HERE IN NEW ENG LEND WHERE MOST OF THE NALTIVE AMERICAN POPULATION WAS KILLED AS EUROPEANS SETTLED ON THIS LAND.

A NEW DOCUMENTARY SHORT SETS OUT TO TELL THE STORY OF ONE TRIBE IN PARTICULAR.

FROM THE MID TO LATE 1700ST MEMBER OF THE PENOBSCOT NATION IN MAINE WERE BRUTALLY TARGETED BY A GOVERNMENT-ISSUED BOWNTEE CALLING FOR ALL SETTLERS TO HUNT PENOBSCOT MEN, WOMEN AND CHILDREN WITH VARYING PRICES FOR EACH.

THE FILM "BOUNTY" FOLLOWS DESCENDANTS OF THOSE KILLED AS THEY READ THEIR ANCESTORS DEATH WARRANTS, REFLECT ON THOSE WHO WERE BRUTALLY MURDERED AND SHARE STORIES OF RESISTANCE AND REMEMBRANCE.

>> WE WERE SEEN AS ANIMALS, BASICALLY.

AND THAT YOU COULD QUANTITY FIE BASED ON THE SIZE OF US.

>> THIS PROCLAMATION WHICH IS ESSENTIALLY A CALL TO EXTERMINATE THE PENOBSCOT PEOPLE THROUGH HUNTING AND SCALPING AND MURDERING WAS SIGNED IN THIS VERY ROOM THAT WE ARE SITTING IN.

>> THE MEMORY OF BEING HUNTED LIKE THIS IS IN OUR BLOOD.

AND IT STILL SCARES US.

>> I'M JOINED BY ONE OF THE CODIRECTORS OF BOUNTY, AND A CITIZEN OF PENOBSCOT NATION, YOU JUST SAW THERE DAWN NEPTUNE ADAMS, WELCOME, DAWN.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

>> ALONG WITH CHRIS NEWELL, A MEMBER OF THE PASS MA QUOADY TRIBE, WHICH EXPLORES THE HISTORY AND CULTURE OF MAINE NATIVE PEOPLE AND ADVISOR FOR THE PROJECT WHICH HELP MAKE THIS FILM.

WELCOME TO YOU AS WELL THANK YOU.

>> HI, NO LONGER EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE ABBE NOW, BUT COFOUNDER OF THE EDUCATIONAL INITIATIVE.

>> THANK YOU FOR THAT.

I WANT TO ASK WHAT IT IT WAS LIKE TO BE IN THOSE ROOMS.

I'M STRUCK ABOUT HOW OFTEN WE GO INTO THOSE ROOMS TO CELEBRATE AND MARVEL AT OUR HISTORY AND TALK ABOUT WHAT A SUCCESS WE ARE.

AND YOU ARE REALLY TAKING THIS TO A MUCH DEEPER LEVEL TO DIG IN AND TALK ABOUT THE COST OF THAT QUOTE UNQUOTE SUCCESS.

WHAT WERE THE FEELINGS THAT YOU HAD WHEN YOU WENT INTO THAT ROOM TO DO THIS?

>> WELL, I'VE NEVER HAD THE OCCASION TO GO INTO ONE OF THOSE ROOMS AND CELEBRATE ANYTHING BUT THE, IN THE MAKING OF BOUNTY THE WEIGHT OF HISTORY COULD DEFINITELY BE FELT.

IT IT WAS BOTH A JOYOUS AND UNSETTLING EXPERIENCE TO BE IN A PLACE WHERE MY ANCESTORS DEATH WARRANTS WERE SIGNED.

>> YEAH, I MEAN IT'S STRIKING IN WATCHING THE DOCUMENTARY ALSO THE RAW FRESH FEELING OF IT IT, AND SHARING IT IT WITH A GENERATION, CHRIS, I'M ALSO STRUCK BY THE CONCEPT IN LIVING LIFE RIGHT NOW OF GENERATIONAL TRAUMA.

AND THAT CLIP THERE SHOWED US CARRYING THROUGH THE TRAUMA OF WHAT HAPPENED IN BRINGING IT INTO OUR EVERY DAY LIVES.

CAN YOU TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT?

>> YEAH, I MEAN SOMETIMES WHEN WE THINK ABOUT THESE HISTORIES, OFTENTIMES IT IS, THE POPULATIONS OF TODAY ARE THOUGHT TO BE DISCONNECTED FROM THEM.

HOWEVER, WE DO CARRY THESE HISTORIES WITH US.

AND AS A RESULT OF THESE HISTORIES, WE ARE BASICALLY THE SURVIVORS OF GENOCIDAL TACTICS.

AND THAT'S A REALITY THAT WE HAVE TO RECKON WITH AS WE EXIST HERE IN WHAT IS NOW THE UNITED STATES.

>> DAWN, THE PROCESS OF PUTTING THE FILM TOGETHER IS NOT JUST ABOUT THE FILM, OBVIOUSLY.

IT'S ABOUT THE EXPERIENCE AND ABOUT THE EDUCATION AND ABOUT CARRYING ON THE ACCURATE AND PROPER HISTORY.

BUT WAS THERE ANYTHING THAT YOU DISCOVERED THAT WAS SURPRISING TO YOU?

YOU KNOW ONE THING THAT I WAS SHOCKED AT IN MY IGNORANCE IN WATCHING THE FILM WAS WHEN YOU HEAR THE COSTS AND BOWNTEES OF THINGS, THEY SOMETIMES, YOU THINK, OF MONEY AS NOT BEING VERY VALUABLE.

I WAS SHOCKED AT THE AMOUNT OF MONEY THAT THE GOVERNMENT AT THAT TIME WAS WILLING TO PLACE ON THE DEATHS AND MURDER-OF-INDIGENOUS PEOPLE HERE AND IN A WAY, I GET GOOSEBUMPS NOW JUST TALKING ABOUT IT, IN A WAY THAT I THINK FRAMED IT IN A WAY THAT I HAD NEVER THOUGHT OF IT BEFORE.

IN A MUCH MORE HORRIFYING WAY, IF THAT WAS EVEN POSSIBLE.

>> YEAH.

IT DEMONSTRATES COLONIALISM AT ALL COSTS.

THE COLONISTS WERE HERE TO TAKE OVER THE LAND, WATER AND THEY DISRCHT REALLY CARE HOW MUCH IT WOULD TAKE TO ACCOMPLISH THAT GOAL.

>> AND IT WAS EXCEPTIONALLY ORGANIZED, EVEN FOR THAT TIME.

I MEAN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THIS BOWNTEE.

BUT THERE WERE OTHERS ACROSS THE CONTINENT.

AND IT WAS SHOCKING TO ME JUST BASICALLY HOW SPECIFIC THEY WERE IN TRYING TO ERADICATE INDIGENOUS PEOPLE HERE.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

THEY BEGIN IN THE 17th SENT REE, IN VARIOUS PROCLAMATIONS THAT HAPPENED IN VARIOUS DIFFERENT STATES, NOT JUST MASSACHUSETTS BUT NEW YORK, MARYLAND, VIRGINIA, THE CAROLINAS, KENTUCKY, MINNESOTA, COLORADO, CALIFORNIA, NEW MEXICO, ARIZONA, TEXAS.

AND IT IS ALL ABOUT DISPOSSESSION OF NATIVE LAND.

EVEN THE PROCLAIM ACHES THAT THE BOUNTY FILM CENTERS ON BEGINS WITH BOWNTEES OF ADULT MALES FOR 50 POUNDS BUT WITHIN A YEAR THE MASSACHUSETTS ASSEMBLY WOULD RAISE THAT TO AN UNPRECEDENTED 300 POUNDS PER PERSON.

>> LET'S GO TOIK A LOOK AT BOWNTEE RIGHT NOW.

LET'S TAKE A LOOK AT THE CLIP.

>> FOR EVERY SCALP OF A MALE PENOBSCOT INDIAN ABOVE THE AGE OF-- BROUGHT IN AS EVIDENCE OF THERE BEING KILLED AS 40 POUNDS.

>> FOR EVERY FEMALE PENOBSCOT TAKEN AND BROUGHT IN AS A FORE SAID, 25 POUNDS.

>> FOR EVERY SCALP OF SUCH FEMALE INDIAN OR MALE INDIAN UNDER THE AGE OF 12 YEARS, THAT SHALL BE KILLED AND BROUGHT IN AS EVIDENCE OF THEIR BEING KILLED AS FORESAID, 20 POUNDS.

>> WHAT WAS THE REACTION, YOU KNOW, THIS IS SUCH AN IMPORTANT FILM FOR EDUCATORS AND FOR EVERYBODY, OBVIOUSLY.

HOW DID THE KIDS, HOW DID THE YOUNGER PEOPLE REACT TO EXPERIENCING THIS?

>> THE CHILDREN WERE ALL REALLY SHOCKED BY THE AMOUNT OF MONEY.

OF COURSE 50 POUNDS IS WORTH ABOUT 12,000 DOLLARS IN TODAY'S MONEY.

AND WITH THE NUMBERS THAT CHRIS JUST QUOTED, I'M BLOWN AWAY.

I DIDN'T KNOW THAT PART ABOUT IT.

BUT GENERALLY, CHILDREN WHO WERE PRESENT ARE MANY OF THEM KNOW, YOU KNOW WHACK HAS HAPPENED TO OUR ANCESTORS.

IT REALLY JUST GAVE US A WAY OF CELEBRATING THE FACT THAT WE'RE STILL HERE.

WE STILL MAINTAIN CONNECTION TO OUR TRADITIONS, OUR CULTURE, OUR LANGUAGES.

AND WE'RE NOT GOING ANYWHERE.

>> CHRIS, I WAS GOING TO SAY, IT IS ALSO A STORY OF SURVIVAL AND VICTORY IN MANY WAYS.

I REMEMBER PULLING THE DEED ON A HOME THAT I WAS LIVING IN IN BOSTON AND IT SAID THAT THE FUTURE RESIDENTS OF THE HOME, NO IRISH COULD LIVE THERE AND NOBODY COULD RUN A BUSINESS OUT OF THERE.

AND IT IT WAS OWNED BY AN IRISHMAN RUNNING A BUSINESS OUT OF THERE, AND THERE WAS THIS FEELING LIKE WELL HUH, YOU MIGHT HAVE HELD US DOWN BUT WE STILL SURVIVED.

IS THERE A FEELING OF, I DON'T WANT TO DOWNPLAY THE HORROR OF IT, BUT AT THE SAME TIME YOU'RE STILL HERE AND YOU ARE STILL THRIVING.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

I WOULD LIKE TO ADD TO THAT.

YOU KNOW, THAT FEELING, YOU KNOW, ESTHER ANN ONE OF THE MAIN FIGURES IN, DESCRIBES IT WELL AT ONE POINT, IS HE SAY THERE ARE ONLY 8,000 WEBENACK LEFT IN THE STATE OF MAINE BUT THEN I THINK THERE IS 8,000 STILL HERE IN THE STATE OF MAINE.

AND THAT NUMBER ALONE LETS US KNOW THAT WE ARE NOT ALONE.

YOU KNOW, SO EVEN THOUGH DAWN AND I COME FROM DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES AND THIS IS REALLY TIED TO HER COMMUNITY, YOU KNOW, IN HISTORICALLY WE WERE ALL TIED TOGETHER.

AND YOU KNOW, THIS IS A WAY FOR US TO, YOU KNOW, HEAL TOGETHER AND YOU KNOW, UNDERSTAND THAT WE DON'T GO THROUGH THESE, YOU KNOW, EMOTIONS JUST BY OURSELVES.

THAT WE SHARE THEM.

BUT WE ALSO REFLECTIVELY HEAL TOGETHER WITH THEM.

>> DAWN, I HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO TALK TO TAYE NUMBER OF INDIGENOUS COMMUNITY LEADERS OVER INDIGENOUS PEOPLE'S DAY REGARDING THE BOSTON MARATHON AND THE BOSTON MARATHON HAVING BEEN MOVED TO THAT DAY DUE TO COVID.

AND IN THE BEGINNING, YOU KNOW, THE REACTION TO THAT WAS NOT ONE OF HAPPINESS.

BUT THE EVENT THEREFORE WAS TURNED IT INTO A RECOGNITION OR ADDED ON A RECOGNITION OF INDIGENOUS PEOPLE WHO HAD RUN IN THE MARATHON AND WON THE MARATHON AND BROUGHT ATTENTION TO THEIR SUCCESS AND ALSO ACKNOWLEDGING THE LANDS THAT WERE USED THAT NOW THE MARATHON RUNS ON.

AND I AM WONDERING IF YOU FEEL THAT WE ARE AT LEAST AT THE BEGINNING IN THIS NATION OF ACKNOWLEDGING THE CRIMES AND THE GENOCIDE BUT AS WELL AS HOPEFULLY BRINGING CULTURES TOGETHER AND US JOINING INDIGENOUS CULTURES IN RECOGNIZING THE IMPORTANCE IT IT IS IN OUR CIVILIZATION AND IN OUR HUMANITY NOW.

>> I DO SEE HOPE AHEAD FOR ALL OF US LIVING TOGETHER IN KINSHIP.

IT IT MUST HAVE BEEN BEAUTIFUL TO BE THERE AND WITNESS THAT ON INDIGENOUS PEOPLE'S DAY.

>> CHRIS, IS THERE OPPORTUNITIES HERE?

WE HAVE HAD ONE OF THE THINGS ABOUT, YOU KNOW, COVID, ONE OF THE OPPORTUNITIES HAS BEEN PARENTS BEING FOR GOOD OR BAD I GUESS MORE INVOLVED IN THEIR CHILDREN'S EDUCATIONS.

AND OFTEN ARE LOOKING POR WAYS NOW TO ENHANCE THAT.

IS THERE AN OPPORTUNITY HERE FOR PARENTS BEING INVOLVED IN THEIR KID'S EDUCATIONS TO HELP BROADEN THEIR UNDERSTANDING WITH ACCURATE FACTS ABOUT INDIGENOUS PEOPLE HERE IN NORTH AMERICA?

THE PAST AND ALSO NOW AND IN THE FUTURE?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

I MEAN THE FILMS THAT ARE PRODUCED BY THE PROJECT THAT CREATED THE FILM AND PRODUCED THE FILM BOUNTY ALSO INCLUDE FREE TEACHERS GUIDES WHICH INCLUDE TONS OF PRIMARY SOURCES, YOU KNOW, TO EXPLORE THESE HARD HISTORIES.

BUT ALSO YOU KNOW, NATIVE PEOPLE ARE NOW MANAGING AND SUCCEEDING IN A COLONIAL EDUCATION SYSTEM.

AND SO WE HAVE NATIVE PEOPLE THAT HAVE ACHIEVED LEVELS OF Ph.D AND ARE WRITING ACTIVELY OUR OWN HISTORIES FROM OUR OWN PERSPECTIVES.

AND I WOULD SEEK OUT THOSE INDIVIDUALS IF AT ALL POSSIBLE, FIRST PERSON PERSPECTIVE IS SO MUCH MORE POWERFUL THAN THE THIRD PERSON INTERNTION WE'VE BEEN SO USED TO SINCE THE 19th CENTURY.

>> AND DAWN AS YOU MODELED IN THIS FILM, DIFFICULT CONVERSATIONS CAN BE HAD WITH CHILDREN.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

AND I BELIEVE IT'S VITAL.

NOT JUST INDIGENOUS CHILDREN AS DEMONSTRATED IN THE FILM BUT ALL CHILDREN.

CHILDREN DESERVE TO KNOW THE TRUTH OF WHAT HAPPENED IN THIS COUNTRY.

>> CHRIS, ARE THERE ANY FINAL WORDS THAT YOU HAVE AS WE HEAD INTO THE THANKSGIVING SEASON AND WE'RE CELEBRATING INDIGENOUS PEOPLE THIS MONTH?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

YOU KNOW, INDIGENOUS PEOPLE'S DAY FOR ME IS EVERY DAY.

YOU KNOW, AND THAT'S ONE THING I WOULD LIKE PEOPLE TO BE REMINDED OF IS THAT WE'RE GLAD TO HAVE THIS MONTH BUT INDIGENOUS HISTORY TIES INTO ALL OF AMERICAN HISTORY, EVER SINCE EUROPEANS FIRST ARRIVED HERE AND PRECEDING THAT BY MILLENIAL -- MILLENNIA.

SO TO BE INCLUSIVE OF US, YOU KNOW, IN ALL ASPECTS WHEN IT IT DOMES TO A MAJOR ELEMENTS ESPECIALLY AMERICAN HISTORY AND ALSO IN THE MAKEUP OF THE CULTURE OF AMERICA OF TODAY.

>> DAWN NEPTUNE ADAMS, CHRIS NEWELL, I APPRECIATE YOU BOTH JOINING US, THAWPG SO MUCH, AND I APPRECIATE THE WORK THAT YOU DO, THANK YOU.

BOWNTEE WILL BE AVAILABLE TO WATCH FOR FREE STARTING THIS COMING MONDAY NOVEMBER 15th AT BOUNTY FILM.OR GO THAT IS IT IT FOR TONIGHT IT BUT COME BACK TONIGHT FOR BOSTON'S RACE INTO HISTORY, THE GBH NEWS POLITICAL TEAM WILL JOIN ADAM REILLY TO SIZE UP MAYOR ELECT MICHELLE WU'S TRANSITION WITH JUST DAYS TO GO UNTIL SHE'S SWORN IN, PLUS CITY COUNCILLOR JULIA MEJIA AND RICARDO A ROYA HOW THEY WILL INITIATE THE BALLOT QUESTION THEY CHAMPIONED.

THANKS FOR WATCHING AND STAY SAFE.

Captioned by Media Access Group at WGBH access.wgbh.org