>>> HELLO, EVERYONE, AND WELCOME TO "AMANPOUR & CO." HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.

ISRAEL'S SPECIAL FORCES REMAIN INSIDE GAZA'S AL-SHIFA HOSPITAL STILL SEARCHING FOR PROOF THAT HAMAS HEADQUARTERS ARE UNDERNEATH.

WE BRING YOU A REPORT ON WHAT WAS FOUND.

AND ISRAEL'S ALLIES WRESTLE WITH CONFLICT AND CONSCIENCE.

MY CONVERSATION WITH FORMER FRENCH PRESIDENT FRANCOIS HOLLANDE.

>>> THEN A STORY OF DEVASTATING LOSS.

THE DOCTOR STILL FIGHTS FOR PEACE AFTER LOSING DOZENS OF FAMILY MEMBERS TO THIS WAR IN GAZA.

>>> AND FINALLY THE POWER OF WORDS.

AUTHOR JASON STANLEY TELLS HARI SREENIVASAN HOW LANGUAGE CAN INFLUENCE WAR.

>>> "AMANPOUR AND COMPANY" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT.

CANDACE KING WEIR.

THE FAMILY FOUNDATION OF LEILA AND MICKEY STRAUS.

JIM ATTWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS.

MARK J. BLECHNER.

SETON J. MELVIN.

CHARLES ROSENBLUM.

KOO AND PATRICIA YUEN, COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES.

BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG.

>>> ADDITIONAL SUPPORT PROVIDED BY THESE FUNDERS, AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

>>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE.

I'M CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR IN LONDON.

ISRAEL PUSHES AHEAD IN GAZA LEAVING THE WORLD IN TURMOIL.

IN WASHINGTON PRO-PALESTINIAN DEMONSTRATORS CHANT FOR A CEASE-FIRE WHILST IN ISRAEL ITSELF THE FIVE-DAY MARCH TO PARLIAMENT IN JERUSALEM CONTINUES DEMANDING ALL THEIR HOSTAGES BE RESCUED OR RELEASED AS CONDITIONS IN GAZA AND THE DEATH TOLL THERE WORSEN.

ISRAEL'S ALLIES GROW INCREASINGLY CONCERNED.

DESPITE WIDESPREAD CONDEMNATION, THE IDF REMAINS INSIDE THE MAIN HOSPITAL, THE AL-SHIFA, WHICH THEY CLAIM WAS A HAMAS COMMAND CENTER.

THEY HAVE YET TO RELEASE CONCLUSIVE PROOF OF THAT, AND THIS WAS THE SCATHING REACTION OF THE ISRAELI CLAIM FROM THE JORDANIAN FOREIGN MINISTER.

>> THAT HAS YET TO BE VERIFIED BY ANY INDEPENDENT INTERNATIONAL ENTITY.

OBVIOUSLY WHAT THEY CLAIM TO BE EVIDENCE WHAT THEY SHOWED IS JUST RIDICULOUS.

IT'S AN INSULT TO INTELLIGENCE TO SAY WHAT THEY SHOWED IS REPRESENTATIVE OF A MILITARY COMMAND CENTER.

>> ISRAEL SAYS IT'LL REVEAL MORE IN THE COMING DAYS AMID MOUNTING PRESSURE TO JUSTIFY THE RAID.

CORRESPONDENT NIC ROBERTSON HAS A CLOSER LOOK AT THE OPERATION UNDER WAY AT THE HOSPITAL AND WHAT HAS AND HAS NOT BEEN FOUND.

>>> INSIDE AL-SHIFA HOSPITAL ISRAELI FORCES ARE FACING THEIR BIGGEST CREDIBILITY TEST IN GAZA SO FAR.

AFTER WEEKS OF CLAIMING ITS BASEMENT IS A NETWORK OF HAMAS BUNKERS, THE IDF MOVED IN THE EARLY HOURS OF WEDNESDAY MORNING, BUT 24 HOURS LATER NO EVIDENCE OF HAMAS' SUBTERRANEAN NETWORK HERE HAS BEEN PRESENTED.

>> WE FOUND WEAPONS, INTELLIGENCE MATERIALS, MILITARY TECHNOLOGIES AND EQUIPMENT, IN ADDITION A MILITARY COMMAND POST WAS LOCATED.

>> ISRAELI TROOP BREACHED HERE A FEW HOURS AGO.

THIS IS WHERE PATIENTS COME IN ORDER TO GET MRI SERVICES.

>> WE HAVE NO INDEPENDENT ACCESS TO AL-SHIFA HOSPITAL SO FAR.

>> IF YOU FOLLOW ME BEHIND THE MRI MACHINE, I'LL SHOW YOU WHAT OUR TROOPS EXPOSED JUST MINUTES AGO.

>> AN IDF SPOKESMAN GIVES AN UNCHALLENGED TOUR OF WHAT HE CLAIMS THEY HAVE DISCOVERED.

>> THERE IS AN AK-47.

THERE ARE CARTRIDGES AND AMMO.

THERE ARE GRENADES IN HERE, OF COURSE UNIFORMS, AND ALL OF THIS WAS HIDDEN VERY CONVENIENTLY SECRETLY BEHIND THE MRI MACHINE.

>> CNN CANNOT INDEPENDENTLY CONFIRM THE IDF'S CLAIMS, BUT TWO DAYS AGO WHEN CNN WAS TAKEN BY THE IDF TO THE AL-RANTISI HOSPITAL IN GAZA, WE POSED THIS QUESTION WHEN SHOWN ANOTHER ALLEGED HAMAS WEAPONS CACHE.

SOME PEOPLE THEY WOULD LOOK AT THIS AND THEN QUESTION THE REALITY OF WHAT YOU'RE SHOWING US.

>> THIS IS HARD EVIDENCE THAT YOU SEE HERE.

AND WHEN WE ENTERED THE HOSPITAL YOU ASKED ME WHY DID YOU OPEN THE BACK OF THE HOSPITAL LIKE THAT?

BECAUSE WE KNEW THE TERRORISTS WERE HERE.

>> UNLIKE AL-RANTISI HOSPITAL, AL-SHIFA STILL HAS STAFF INSIDE, SEEN HERE A FEW DAYS AGO, BUT REACHING THEM HAS BEEN MADE NEAR IMPOSSIBLE AS COMMUNICATIONS WERE CUT AS THE IDF WENT IN.

ONE DOCTOR DID MANAGE TO GET A CALL THROUGH.

>> NO ONE IS OPERATING.

NO ONE IS SEEING ANYONE.

IT'S LIKE ALL WAITING FOR WHAT THE END POINT OF THIS ONE, ARE WE GOING TO SURVIVE THIS MOMENT OR NOT.

>> AND A LOCAL JOURNALIST INSIDE THE HOSPITAL REACHED BY CNN SAID HE HAD SEEN THE IDF, QUOTE, CONDUCTING SEARCH AND INTERROGATION OPERATIONS WITH VIOLENT GUNFIRE INSIDE THE HOSPITAL.

CNN CANNOT INDEPENDENTLY VERIFY THESE ACCOUNTS.

HAMAS DISMISSED AN EARLIER IDF CLAIM THAT FOUND WEAPONS AT THE SITE AS PROPAGANDA.

ON A TOUR WITH TROOPS, PRIME MINISTER BENJAMIN NETANYAHU APPEARED EMBOLDENED BY TAKING THE HOSPITAL.

>> Translator: THEY TOLD US THAT WE WOULD NOT ENTER SHIFA.

WE'VE ENTERED.

AND IN THIS SPIRIT WE SAY A SIMPLE THING.

THERE IS NO PLACE IN GAZA THAT WE WILL NOT REACH.

>> ABSENT PROOF OF HAMAS' BUNKERS IN AL-SHIFA, NETANYAHU MAY FIND THAT REACH CURTAILED AS INTERNATIONAL OUTRAGE AT THE IDF OFFENSIVE MOUNTS.

>> INDEED, AS THAT FIGHTING CONTINUES AND THE DEATH TOLL MOUNTS, JOSEP BORRELL, THE FOREIGN POLICY CHIEF OF THE EUROPEAN UNION, DELIVERED THIS MESSAGE TO THE FOREIGN MINISTER ELI COHEN.

>> LET ME ASK YOU NOT TO BE CONSUMED BY RAGE.

I THINK THAT'S WHAT THE BEST FRIEND OF ISRAEL CAN TELL YOU.

BECAUSE WHAT MAKES THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A CIVILIZED SOCIETY AND A TERRORIST GROUP IS THE RESPECT FOR HUMAN LIFE.

>> INSIDE ISRAEL FOR THE FIRST TIME TODAY, OPPOSITION LEADER AND FORMER PRIME MINISTER -- CALLED ON BENJAMIN NETANYAHU TO RESIGN SAYING THE PRIME MINISTER HAS LOST THE PUBLIC'S TRUST.

AS WE SAID, MANY OF ISRAEL'S STAUNCHEST SUPPORTERS ABROAD ARE TRYING TO MAINTAIN THAT SUPPORT WHILE WARNING OF THE DANGERS OF WHAT THE U.N. CALLS CARNAGE IN GAZA.

AND I'VE BEEN SPEAKING TO THE FORMER FRENCH PRESIDENT, FRANCOIS HOLLANDE.

PRESIDENT HOLLANDE, WELCOME BACK TO OUR PROGRAM.

WE ARE IN A TERRIBLE, TERRIBLE GLOBAL SITUATION RIGHT NOW, AND I WONDER WHAT YOUR IMMEDIATE THOUGHTS ARE ABOUT THE SOLUTION, THE IMMEDIATE SOLUTION WITH THE STORMING OF THE AL-SHIFA HOSPITAL, WITH THE AMOUNT OF DEATHS OF CIVILIANS THAT ARE CLEARLY MOUNTING IN GAZA.

YOUR OWN PRESIDENT CALLED FOR A CEASE-FIRE.

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

>> Translator: WE ARE IN A WAR, A MURDEROUS WAR.

HAMAS IS RESPONSIBLE FOR IT.

WE KNOW THAT ISRAEL IS GOING TO PUSH FOR THE ERADICATION OF THIS TERRORIST ORGANIZATION, BUT THERE MUST BE RESPECT FOR HUMANITARIAN LAW, AND THAT IS WHY I'VE BEEN URGING LIKE MANY OTHERS FOR A PROVISIONAL CEASE-FIRE.

AND I STRESS PROVISIONAL BECAUSE WE NEED TO GET THE HOSTAGES FREED, EVACUATE THE WOUNDED, AND TO GET HELP TO THE PEOPLE INSIDE GAZA PARTICULARLY THE DISPLACED PERSONS.

AFTERWARDS -- AFTER WHAT HAS HAPPENED IN THE HOSPITAL, I THINK THERE MUST BE A PROVISIONAL CEASE-FIRE OR SOME PEOPLE HAVE CALLED IT A HUMANITARIAN TRUCE, BUT I THINK IT WOULD BE BETTER TO CALL IT A PROVISIONAL CEASE-FIRE.

BECAUSE I THINK THIS WILL ALLOW US TO PREPARE FOR WHAT HAPPENS AFTERWARDS.

SO IT'S DURING THE WAR THAT WE HAVE TO PREPARE FOR POST-WAR.

>> CAN I PLAY FOR YOU YOUR OWN PRESIDENT, AND OF COURSE HE WORKED FOR YOU.

YOU'RE FROM THE SAME PARTY.

PRESIDENT MACRON'S INTERVENTION THIS WEEKEND, AND IT WAS THE FIRST OF THE MAJOR WESTERN LEADERS AND THE ALLIES OF ISRAEL TO ACTUALLY CALL FOR A CEASE-FIRE.

HE DID NOT SAY PROVISIONAL.

HE SAID A CEASE-FIRE.

LET ME PLAY IT.

>> WE CLEARLY CONDEMN THE TERRORIST ATTACK AND TERRORIST GROUP AND RECOGNIZE THE RIGHT OF ISRAEL TO PROTECT ITSELF AND REACT.

BUT DAY ONE WE SAY THIS REACTION, THE FIGHT AGAINST TERRORISM BECAUSE IT IS LED BY DEMOCRACY SHOULD BE COMPLIANT WITH INTERNATIONAL RULES OF WAR AND HUMANITARIAN INTERNATIONAL LAW.

AND DAY AFTER DAY WHAT WE SAW WAS A PERMANENT BOMBING OF CIVILIANS IN GAZA.

I THINK THIS IS THE ONLY SOLUTION WE HAVE, IS A CEASE-FIRE.

>> HOW DO YOU INTERPRET WHAT YOU CALLED FOR AND IS THE UNITED STATES LIKE FRANCE MOVING AWAY WHAT HE SAID?

>> FIRST OF ALL, HE WAS EXPRESSING HIS FEELINGS ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED IN GAZA, WHOLE FAMILIES BEING BOMBED, CHILDREN DYING.

AND THERE'S BEEN THE ATTACK ON THE HOSPITAL, SO I THINK THAT HIS COMPASSION IS SOMETHING WHICH EVERYBODY CAN UNDERSTAND.

BUT IT'S IMPORTANT THAT FRANCE SPEAKS UP CLEARLY ABOUT WHAT'S HAPPENING IN GAZA EVEN IF THE RESPONSIBILITY IS CLEARLY THAT OF HAMAS.

AS FOR THE CEASE-FIRE, I THINK WE'RE ALL IN FAVOR OF IT AND WE KNOW PERFECTLY WELL THAT ISRAEL CAN'T STOP THERE IT'S BEATING HAMAS AND PUTTING THE ORGANIZATION OUT OF ACTION.

SO WHAT WE HAVE TO DO -- AND I THINK THIS IS THE MESSAGE THAT DEMOCRACIES AS A WHOLE HAVE TO CONVEY -- IS TO SAY THAT THERE SHOULD BE A PROVISIONAL HUMANITARIAN TRUCE AND ALSO TO WORK UP A PEACE PLAN.

BUT THIS PEACE PLAN CAN ONLY HAPPEN WITH ARAB COUNTRIES.

FOR TOO LONG NOW THE PALESTINIAN ISSUE HAS BEEN PUT TO ONE SIDE.

DEMOCRATIC COUNTRIES HAVE NOT BEEN ENGAGING WITH IT, HAVE NOT REQUESTED ADTWO STATE SITUATION, AND ARAB COUNTRIES HAVE BEEN NEGOTIATING DIRECTLY WITH ISRAEL WITHOUT EVEN MENTIONING THE PALESTINIAN ISSUE.

AND NOW THE ARAB COUNTRIES BECAUSE IT'S THEIR RESPONSIBILITY HAVE TO NEGOTIATE WITH THE ENTIRE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY TO PREPARE FOR THE POST-WAR SITUATION AND ESPECIALLY THE TWO-STATE ISSUE.

AND THAT REQUIRES MAKING SURE THAT GAZA IS SAFE BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY IT CAN'T RETURN TO WHAT IT WAS.

>> DO YOU BELIEVE THAT NOW, AS YOU SAY, MANY OF THE WESTERN LEADERS TOOK THEIR EYE OFF THE PALESTINIAN ISSUE?

THEY THOUGHT THERE WERE OTHER MORE IMPORTANT ISSUES?

AND THERE ARE A LOT OF MORE IMPORTANT ISSUES.

BUT DO YOU BELIEVE THAT THIS CRISIS, THIS TERRIBLE, TERRIBLE WAR WILL REALLY CONCENTRATE PEOPLE'S MINDS NOW TO SOLVE THIS CRISIS ONCE AND FOR ALL?

>> Translator: YES.

WITH THE RETURN OF WAR LIKE THIS, I THINK WE SIMPLY CANNOT HAVE THE SAME KIND OF IMAGES COMING BACK EVERY TEN YEARS.

TERRORIST ATTACKS FOLLOWED BY ISRAELI INTERVENTION.

NEITHER CAN BE ACCEPT THE SETTLEMENTS THAT NETANYAHU SUPPORTED IN THE WEST BANK, WHICH TOMORROW CAN GIVE RISE TO SUCH DRAMATIC EVENTS AS WE'VE JUST SEEN IN GAZA.

SO NOW AFTER THE WAR, ONE HAS TO TAKE ACTION, WHICH MEANS FINDING A POLITICAL SOLUTION.

IT'S ONLY POLITICS WHICH WILL ALLOW US TO FIND A SOLUTION TO THIS CONFLICT.

>> SO I'D LIKE TO READ TO YOU IN VIEW OF WHAT EVERYBODY'S SAYING AND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING ABOUT THE DAY AFTER BECAUSE IT DOES NOT LOOK AS IF ISRAEL HAS A PLAN FIRST.

DO YOU THINK ISRAEL HAS A PLAN FOR THE DAY AFTER?

>> NETANYAHU CERTAINLY HAS A PLAN, BUT IT'S NOT THE RIGHT ONE TO REOCCUPY GAZA.

BUT THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE.

>> HE DOESN'T SAY REOCCUPY BUT I KNOW HE SAID SIMILAR.

>> YES, AFTERWARDS HE CORRECTED HIMSELF, BUT HE WAS WRONG.

I DON'T THINK HE DOES HAVE A PLAN BECAUSE NETANYAHU MAY NOT STILL BE IN POWER THE DAY AFTER THE WAR ENDS.

SO THE ISRAELIS REALLY SHOULD BE ASKING THEMSELVES HOW THEY WANT TO LIVE NOW AND NEXT TO WHOM, AND WHETHER IT SHOULD BE WITH OR WITHOUT THE PALESTINIAN STATE.

AND THAT IS A QUESTION FIRST AND FOREMOST FOR THE ISRAELIS.

BUT WE, THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY, WE SHOULD FACILITATE THE PEACE PLAN AND NOT POSTPONE IT UNTIL LATER.

WE NEED TO DO IT NOW.

>> AND IT'S STILL THE TWO-STATE SOLUTION THAT'S THE ONLY ONE ON THE TABLE.

IN A "THE WASHINGTON POST" OP-ED JORDAN'S KING ABDUL WHO OBVIOUSLY HAS A PEACE AGREEMENT WITH ISRAEL HAS CALLED AGAIN FOR A TWO-STATE SOLUTION.

BUT HE ALSO SAID IN THE NAME OF OUR COMMON HUMANITY, HOW COULD SUCH BRUTAL ACTS AND MURDERS BE ACCEPTED?

HE'S OBVIOUSLY TALKING ABOUT WHAT'S HAPPENING IN GAZA.

TODAY'S HUMAN SUFFERING AND GLOBAL TENSIONS URGE US TO ADHERE TO THE NORMS OF HUMANITY BEFORE WE REACH A MORAL BREAKING POINT FOR ALL.

SO THERE'S TWO THINGS THERE.

A MORAL BREAKING POINT WITH WHAT'S HAPPENING THERE, WITH WHAT'S HAPPENING IN RUSSIA, UKRAINE, ALL THESE OTHER PLACES, AND WANTING TO RESTART SOMETHING JORDAN HAS SIGNED UP TO, EGYPT HAS SIGNED UP, THE PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY, THE UNITED STATES, EUROPE, THE SECURITY COUNCIL, CHINA, RUSSIA, EVERYBODY.

WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THE MORAL COLLAPSE, MORAL BREAKING POINT?

>> Translator: YES, THERE CERTAINLY HAS BEEN A NEGLECT ON THE PART OF DEMOCRACIES ON A NUMBER OF ISSUES AND NOT JUST THE PALESTINIAN ISSUE.

THERE'S BEEN NEGLECT OF WHAT DICTATORSHIPS HAVE BEEN AND WHAT THEY COULD GIVE RISE TO IN PARTICULAR RUSSIA.

AND WHAT WE SEE QUITE CLEARLY IS THAT THESE AUTHORITARIAN REGIMES HAVE NO MORAL SCRUPLES LEFT.

NOW THEY'RE DETERMINED TO RESORT TO FORCE.

ITS FORCE WHICH HAS BEEN IMPOSED OVER RECENT MONTHS, AND THIS IS SOMETHING COMPLETELY NEW.

WE WERE ALL UNDER THE ILLUSION THAT PEACE WOULD PREVAIL EVERYWHERE AND THAT IT WAS THE COMMON OBJECTIVE, BUT, NO, THAT IS NO LONGER SO.

THERE ARE COUNTRIES TODAY RESORTING TO FORCE.

SO THAT'S THE ISSUE.

WILL DEMOCRACIES BE STRONG ENOUGH BUT ALSO MORALLY STRONG ENOUGH?

IT'S NOT ENOUGH TO BE STRONG BUT MORALLY TO ENSURE THE WORLD WILL BE ABLE TO SOLVE THE MAJOR GLOBAL CRISES.

>> SO TO ME THAT'S A REALLY IMPORTANT AND DIFFICULT THING THAT YOU'VE JUST SAID, THAT WE NO LONGER AS A WORLD BELIEVE THAT PEACE IS THE DEFAULT OPTION BUT IT'S WAR.

AND YOU'VE TALKED ABOUT POWERFUL -- POWERFUL NATIONS DOING THAT.

SO ABOUT UKRAINE AND RUSSIA.

IT LOOKS AS IF PEOPLE HAVE TAKEN THEIR EYE OFF THAT FOR THE MOMENT.

I DON'T KNOW WHETHER GOVERNMENTS HAVE, BUT IT'S NOT IN THE NEWS.

IT'S NOT BEING TALKED ABOUT.

ARE YOU WORRIED THAT PUTIN IS MAKING HAY, IN OTHER WORDS TAKING ADVANTAGE, OF THIS CRISIS IN THE MIDDLE EAST?

EVEN XI JINPING?

>> Translator: PUTIN WANTS TO GAIN TIME ACROSS THE BOARD.

TIME IS IN HIS FAVOR.

I THINK THAT IN UKRAINE THE FACT THAT THE CONFLICT ON THE FRONT LINE ISN'T MOVING DESPITE THE UKRAINIAN COUNTER OFFENSIVE MEANS ESSENTIALLY THAT WHAT HE'S DOING IS TO WAIT FOR THE U.S. SELECTIONS AND HOPING THAT IF THE REPUBLICANS WIN AND IN PARTICULAR DONALD TRUMP, THAT THE U.S. WILL ABANDON UKRAINE AND THAT THE EUROPEANS WOULD NOT MOBILIZE QUICKLY ENOUGH TO ASSIST IT.

AS FOR THE ISRAELI-PALESTINIAN CONFLICT, PUTIN ONLY SEES ADVANTAGES IN ITS CONTINUING BECAUSE MEANTIME NOBODY'S GOING TO REPROACH HIM FOR BOMBING UKRAINIAN TOWNS OR GETTING MORE ARMS FROM EITHER IRAN OR NORTH KOREA.

SO WE SEE THAT AUTHORITARIAN REGIMES, RUSSIA, CHINA AS WELL ARE THINKING ABOUT IT.

HENCE THE MEETING BETWEEN BIDEN AND XI JINPING.

AND RUSSIA HAS EVERY INTEREST IN THESE CRISES NEVER BEING RESOLVED.

AND XI JINPING AS WELL AS PUTIN CALCULATE THAT WE ARE WEAK.

WEAK BECAUSE WE DON'T WANT TO DEFEND OURSELVES PROPERLY, AND THEY THINK THAT WE ARE WEAK FROM WITHIN -- OUR DIVISIONS, OUR SOCIETIES, WHICH ARE DIFFICULT TO GOVERN, THE SOCIAL DEBATES ALL THIS SOWS DOUBT.

>> IF YOU'RE THE PRESIDENT AND ADVISING ANY OF THE NATO ALLIES OR UKRAINE'S FRIENDS WHAT WOULD YOU SAY?

BECAUSE BILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN AMERICAN AND EUROPEAN HELP AND MILITARY ASSISTANCE HAS GONE TO UKRAINE.

AND AS YOU SAY THEIR MAIN GENERAL HAS CALLED IT A STALEMATE RIGHT NOW.

WHAT WOULD YOU DO NOW TO SEND PUTIN THE MESSAGE THAT YOU WANT TO DELIVER?

>> Translator: WE WILL CONTINUE TO ASSIST UKRAINE, TO SUPPLY THEM WITH MORE AND MORE POWERFUL ARMS UNTIL SUCH TIME THAT RUSSIA EVENTUALLY DECIDES IT CANNOT OCCUPY TERRITORY WHICH IS NOT THEIRS.

AND IF, REGRETTABLY, THE U.S.

WERE TO WITHDRAW THEIR ASSISTANCE TO UKRAINE, THEN WE, EUROPEANS WITH THE BRITISH, SHOULD CONTINUE TO INCREASE EVEN MORE OUR AID TO UKRAINE.

IF WE STOP, WE WOULD CREATE THE PRECEDENT THAT FORCE WILL PREVAIL OVER LAW.

>> AND FINALLY, THERE HAVE BEEN MARCHES ALL OVER THE WORLD SINCE OCTOBER 7th.

SOME PRO-PALESTINIAN, SOME PRO-ISRAELI.

NOTABLY THIS WEEKEND IN PARIS AND IN WASHINGTON THERE WERE PRO-ISRAEL MARCHES.

I REMEMBER, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU LED A MARCH AFTER THE ATTACKS ON CHARLIE ABDUL AND THE WORLD CAME IN SOLIDARITY.

IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN BENJAMIN NETANYAHU CAME AS WELL TO THOSE MARCHES.

DO YOU SEE AN IREVOKABLE ANTI-SEMITISM RISIC, ISLAMAPHOBIA RISING?

HOW DO YOU ANALYZE THE PUBLIC MOOD AND WHAT WILL HAPPEN IN TERMS OF -- OF KEEPING THE PUBLIC, YOU KNOW, FROM BEING SO DIVIDED?

>> Translator: ANTI-SEMITISM HAS DEEP ROOTS IN FRANCE AND IN EUROPE, AND HISTORY ALAS SHOWS US THAT.

SO WE HAVE TO BE VERY VIGILANT AGAINST THE RESURGENCE OF RACISM AGAINST THE JEWS.

AND OF COURSE THE ISRAELI-PALESTINIAN CRISIS HAS REKINDLED THIS RACISM AGAINST JEWS, WHICH WE THOUGHT WAS DEAD.

BUT THERE IS OFTEN A SECTION OF THE POPULATION WHICH IS YOUNG AND URBAN AND NOT NECESSARILY MUSLIM COUNTRIES TO WHAT IS OFTEN ASSUMED OR THAT THEY CAN BE MUSLIM, WHICH IS EAGER TO CONDEMN ISRAEL.

BUT BY CONDEMNING ISRAEL, THERE IS THE RISK OF ANTI-SEMITISM, WHICH IS UNACCEPTABLE.

AND THIS IS WHAT HAPPENED IN FRANCE, IN THE U.K., IN THE U.S. PEOPLE HAVE BEEN ATTACKED SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY'RE JEWISH .

WE HAVE TO REACT TO THAT.

I REACTED BY CALLING FOR A MARCH AFTER THE MASSACRE AT THE JEWISH SUPERMARKET IN FRANCE.

AND LAST SUNDAY THERE WAS ANOTHER DEMONSTRATION, AND IT WAS NECESSARY I THOUGHT, USEFUL FOR FRENCH PEOPLE TO SHOW THEIR SOLIDARITY AND FRATERNITY WITH THE JEWISH COMMUNITY.

THAT DOESN'T MEAN TO SAY THAT THERE ALSO HASN'T BEEN ANTI-MUSLIM ACTS, RACISM, AND DISCRIMINATION.

WE HAVE TO FIGHT AGAINST THAT SCOURGE AS WELL, OBVIOUSLY.

AUTHORITARIAN REGIMES ACTUALLY WANT TO SEE THIS.

THERE ARE NO DEMONSTRATIONS IN RUSSIA, AND I CAN'T SEE ANY IN CHINA EITHER OR IN IRAN.

IN IRAN IF YOU DEMONSTRATE FOR YOUR RECOGNIZES, YOU END UP IN PRISON IF YOU'RE NOT ACTUALLY SHOT.

SO AUTHORITARIAN REGIMES ARE HOPING THAT THROUGH THESE CONFLICTS WE WILL BE DIVIDED.

SO WHAT DO WE HAVE TO DO?

WE HAVE TO STAND FIRM.

EACH ONE OF OUR SOCIETIES HAVE TO STAND FIRM AROUND COMMON VALUES AND WHAT OUR DEMOCRACY STANDS FOR WITHOUT FORGETTING THE GLOBAL SOUTH, BECAUSE THAT IS THE OTHER CHALLENGE.

THE COUNTRIES OF THE GLOBAL SOUTH, SOUTH AFRICA, BRAZIL, AFRICA, IF WE WANT A FAIR DISTRIBUTION OF POWER IN THE WORLD SHOULD ALSO BE PART OF THESE MAJOR DECISIONS AND NOT FORCED TO REMAIN IN A KIND OF AMBIGUOUS SITUATION OVER THESE GLOBAL CONFLICTS TODAY.

>> PRESIDENT FRANCOIS HOLLANDE, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR BEING WITH US.

>>> AND IN 2009 DURING AN EARLIER GROUND WAR IN GAZA, A PALESTINIAN DOCTOR SUFFERED A DEVASTATING TRAGEDY.

HIS THREE DAUGHTERS WERE KILLED IN AN ISRAELI ATTACK.

HE SHOWED ME WHAT HAPPENED THERE, AND YET HE HELD ONTO HIS DREAM OF PEACEFUL COEXISTENCE, WRITING A MEMOIR CALLED "I SHALL NOT HATE."

BUT NOW SOME 25 OF HIS FAMILY MEMBERS HAVE BEEN KILLED IN GAZA IN THIS NEW WAR.

SO I ASKED THE DOCTOR HOW HE'S ABLE TO HOLD ONTO FORGIVENESS IN THE FACE OF SUCH LOSS.

DOCTOR, WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

WE HAVE SPOKEN TOGETHER OVER MANY, MANY YEARS.

THE FIRST TIME WE MET WAS IN 2009 AFTER YOUR DAUGHTERS, YOUR NIECE WERE KILLED IN AN ISRAELI TANK FIRE DURING THE LAST OR ONE OF THE LAST GROUND INVASIONS.

YOU THEN WROTE A BOOK CALLED "I WILL NOT HATE -- I SHALL NOT HATE."

HOW WERE YOU ABLE TO SUMMON THAT FORGIVENESS AT THAT TIME?

>> AT THAT TIME EVEN WHEN I WROTE MY BOOK "I SHALL NOT HATE" BECAUSE PEOPLE WERE EXPECTING ME TO BE AFFLICTED WITH THIS DISEASE CALLED HATRED.

AND EVEN I MENTIONED IT IF I COULD KNOW THAT MY DAUGHTERS WERE THE LAST SACRIFICE ON THE ROAD TO PEACE BETWEEN PALESTINIANS AND ISRAELIANS, THEN I WILL ACCEPT IT.

MY DAUGHTERS AND MY NIECE WERE NOT THE LAST.

THEY ARE JUST NUMBERS IN THE SERIES OF CONTINUING UNTIL NOW AMONG VICTIMS OF THOUSANDS WHO ARE KILLED.

THAT'S WHY I DON'T ACCEPT IT.

AND I FEEL THESE DAYS IT'S NOT WITH HATRED, I FEEL ANGRY IN A POSITIVE WAY.

>> IN A POSITIVE WAY YOU FEEL -- >> YES, I WANT DO DO MORE BECAUSE I KNOW THE MEANING OF THE LOSS.

I LOST MY DAUGHTERS.

I SEE MY DAUGHTERS IN EVERY INNOCENT HUMAN BEING WHO IS KILLED, IN THE PALESTINIAN CHILDREN AND THE ISRAEL CHILDREN, THE INNOCENT WHO ARE KILLED.

SO THE ONLY WAY AS A MEDICAL DOCTOR WHEN THERE'S A BLEEDING PATIENT I RUSH TO STOP THE BLEEDING, SO MY MAIN GOAL NOW AS I SAID TO YOU, I WISH TO COME HERE TO CELEBRATE THE CEASE-FIRE, TO SAVE LIVES, TO GIVE LIFE.

>> AND JUST TO POINT OUT HERE WHEN I VISITED YOU YOU WERE A DOCTOR LIVING WITH YOUR FAMILY IN GAZA BUT WORKING ACROSS THE BORDER IN ISRAEL AT THE SPECIAL HOSPITAL THERE.

YOU WERE AN OB/GYN.

SO YOU HAD REAL RELATIONS SO-CALLED WITH THE OTHER SIDE, RIGHT?

>> YES.

>> AND WHAT WAS THAT LIKE?

BECAUSE YOU KNEW THE STORY OF THE OTHER.

>> YES, I KNOW THE STORY AND THAT'S WHY I LOVED IT, I NOODS IT.

AND THAT RAISES THE QUESTION ABOUT IGNORANCE.

WE JUDGE EACH OTHER WITHOUT KNOWING EACH OTHER.

SO IT'S IMPORTANT TO KNOW EACH OTHER, TO COMMUNICATE WITH EACH OTHER, NOT TO BE MISINFORMED.

WHEN I WORKED I BELIEVE IN THE MISSION OF THE WORK I AM DOING.

THAT MEDICINE IS HUMAN EQUALIZER, STABILIZER, SOCIALIZER, HARMONIZER, SUSTAINIZER.

YOU SEE IT IF YOU GO TO HOSPITAL CAN YOU DIFFERENTIATE BETWEEN THE CRY OF A NEWBORN PALESTINIAN, ISRAELI, ENGLISH, CANADIAN, AMERICAN.

THE CRY OF A NEWBORN BABY IS A CRY OF HOPE, CRY OF LIFE.

AND THE NEWBORN BABY IS BORN FREE.

BORN FREE AND WE TREAT THEM ALL EQUALLY.

WHY WITH THEY LEAVE THE HOSPITAL WE START TO DISCRIMINATE BETWEEN THEM BASED ON ETHNICITY, COLOR, RELIGION AND NAME?

IT'S TIME TO LEARN FROM THAT.

>> AS YOU KNOW ISRAEL HAS SAID IT WILL TRY TO REMOVE THESE CHILDREN, SOMEHOW GET THEM OUT OF THE DANGER.

WHETHER OR NOT IT CAN, WE'RE NOT SURE OR WHETHER IT WILL.

THEY'RE ALSO CALLING ON DOCTORS TO ABANDON AL-SHIFA AND TAKE -- JUST GO.

AND YET WE'VE SEEN IN MANY WARTIME SITUATIONS WHETHER IT WAS THE TERRIBLE FLOODS IN NEW ORLEANS DURING HURRICANE KATRINA, WHETHER IT'S IN SYRIA, WHETHER IT'S IN GAZA, WHETHER IT'S ISRAEL, WHEREVER IT MIGHT BE, DOCTORS HAVE A DUTY OF CARE.

WOULD YOU LEAVE IF YOU WERE TOLD TO LEAVE EVEN IF YOUR LIFE WAS IN DANGER?

>> I WILL NEVER LEAVE THE PLACE WHERE I HAVE COME, THIS IS MY MORAL RESPONSIBILITY, MY ETHICAL AND HUMAN RESPONSIBILITY TO GIVE CARE TO THE PEOPLE WHO ARE IN NEED.

IT'S IMMORAL TO LEAVE THEM.

>> YOU LOST I THINK YOU SAID TWO DOZEN -- 25 MEMBERS OF YOUR EXTENDED FAMILY IN THIS CURRENT WAR, NOT TO MENTION AS WE MENTIONED DAUGHTERS, A NIECE IN 2009.

>> I LOST THEM, AND EVEN NOW I'M TRYING TO GET IN TOUCH WITH MY BROTHERS, WITH MY SISTERS TO TALK TO THEM BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW IF I WILL TALK TO THEM LATER ON OR NOT.

PALESTINIANS IN THE GAZA STRIP THAT ARE MOVING COFFINS, THAT ARE WAITING IN LINE FOR NOTHING.

THERE ARE PEOPLE LIKE OTHERS THEY WANT TO SURVIVE, THEY WANT TO LIVE.

AND WITH MY NEPHEWS, NIECES, WE AS PALESTINIANS AS EVERY OTHER PARENT, THEY INVEST EVERYTHING TO RAISE THEIR CHILDREN TO BE GREAT PEOPLE, TO BE PROUD OF THEM.

MY BROTHERS THEY RAISED AND MY SISTERS, THARAISED THEIR CHILDREN TO BE EDUCATED.

ONE OF THEM GRADUATED FROM THE SCHOOL OF MEDICINE, AND SHE WAS SUPPOSED TO START HER RESIDENCY.

MY NIECE WHO AN ARCHITECT IN ENGINEERING.

MY NEPHEW HE IS A PHYSIOTHERAPIST.

MY NIECE, HANAN, SHE WAS KILLED WITH HER HUSBAND AND HER THREE SONS AND DAUGHTER.

SHE NAMED HER DAUGHTER AFTER MY DAUGHTER BECAUSE WE CARRY THE NAMES.

WE WANT TO KEEP THEM ALIVE.

THEY'RE OUR CHILDREN.

AND EVEN MY NEPHEW'S WIFE, SHE WAS KILLED WHILE SHE IS PREGNANT WITH HER LOVELY DAUGHTERS.

IS THIS GOING TO PUT AN END -- I SAY IT, HOW MUCH OF THE PALESTINIAN'S BLOOD TO SATISFY THE THIRST OF REVENGE AND ANGER?

>> WHAT WILL THIS DO?

YOU KNOW, YOU'VE HEARD PROBABLY NETANYAHU AND OTHERS TALKING ABOUT DE-RADICALIZING GAZA, DESTROYING HAMAS, WHETHER OR NOT THAT'S POSSIBLE.

BUT DO YOU THINK IT WILL CREATE ANOTHER GENERATION OF RADICALS?

>> IT WILL LEAD ONLY MORE BLOODSHED, MORE SUFFERING, MORE MAIN, MORE HATRED, MORE VIOLENCE, AND MORE EXTREMISM.

AND I AM SURE WE NEED RATIONAL VOICES TO BRING AN END TO THIS AND TO REALIZE ONE THING, MILITARY MEANS AND VIOLENCE WILL NEVER PUT AN END TO THIS.

>> WHAT IS GOING TO MAKE THEM SAFE?

>> THE ISRAELIS?

>> YES, FROM THE KIND OF SLAUGHTER THAT HAPPENED?

>> IT'S GOOD.

THIS IS THE QUESTION WE NEED TO ASK WHY THEY DON'T FEEL SAFE.

THIS IS IMPORTANT.

AND TO DIG DEEPER TO FIND OUT THE ROOT CAUSES.

ALL SIDES PALESTINIANS AND ISRAELIS, THEY WANT TO BE SAFE, THEY WANT TO BE FREE, AND TO END THE OCCUPATION, THE BIG ELEPHANT INSIDE THE ROOM.

AND PERSONALLY I FULLY BELIEVE PALESTINIAN SAFETY, SECURITY, FREEDOM, INDEPENDENCE, EQUALITY, AND THE FUTURE BOTH OF THEM AND THE ISRAELIS ARE DEPENDENT AND INTERTWINED WITH EACH OTHER.

SO NO ONE IS SAFE AS LONG AS THE OTHER IS NOT.

AND WE NEED TO WORK TOWARDS THAT TO EQUALIZE BETWEEN THEM AND TO GET RID OF THE OBSTACLES WHICH ARE PREVENTING THEM FROM BEING EQUAL, WHICH ARE THE OCCUPATION.

>> AND YOU ALWAYS SAID WHEN YOU WERE TREATING PATIENTS THEY COULD HAVE BEEN FROM MARS BUT THEY WERE YOUR PATIENTS.

THEY WEREN'T JEWISH, THEY WEREN'T MUSLIM.

THEY WERE PATIENTS.

AND YOU HAVE MOVED TO TORONTO WHERE YOU SAY YOU HAVE NEIGHBORS WHO ARE JEWISH.

>> YES.

>> HOW DO YOU INTERACT ON A DAILY BASIS PARTICULARLY IN A SITUATION THAT'S SO DIFFICULT?

>> I DID WITH THEM AS CANADIANS, AS NEIGHBORS.

AND THAT'S IMPORTANT.

WE NEVER BROUGHT THE CONFLICT HERE.

THIS IS IMPORTANT.

ANYTIME POLITICIANS THEY BRING AND THEY IMPORT THE CONFLICT FROM HERE TO THERE BY THEIR ATTITUDES BY BEING BULLIES AND ACCOMPLICES WITH WHAT'S HAPPENING.

YOU SEE THE CONFLICT IN LONDON AND THAT'S WHY I SAY THE CONFLICT BACK HOME, IT'S CONTAGIOUS AND IT CROSSES BARRIERS.

SO WE NEED TO PUT AN END -- PUTTING AN END IN A JUST WAY ALL THE WORLD WILL BENEFIT FROM IT.

>> IT IS CLEAR TO ME AFTER ALL THESE YEARS THAT HAMAS, MILITARY OR POLITICAL, DO NOT PUT THE FAITH IN THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE FIRST.

THEY PUT THEIR OWN FAITH AND THE STRUGGLE, WHATEVER YOU MIGHT WANT TO CALL IT FIRST.

AND I WONDER HOW MUCH, YOU KNOW, EVERYBODY HAS SAID ALL PALESTINIANS OR HAMAS OR ALL GAZANS ARE HAMAS.

I WONDER WHAT YOU WOULD SAY TO THAT.

>> I WANT PEOPLE TO DIFFERENTIATE, NOT TO GENERALIZE.

PALESTINIANS BY NATURE ARE SECULAR PEOPLE, BUT THE CURRENT SITUATION IN THE GAZA STRIP AND TO REDUCE THE CONFLICT AND SITUATION JUST IN HAMAS AND ISRAEL NOT AS A PAL STINGEN PEOPLE BUT ISRAELI PEOPLE, THAT'S WHAT'S NEEDED.

THIS IS THE MAIN ISSUE.

PUT AN END TO IT AND EVEN HAMAS WAS ELECTED IN 2006.

SINCE 2006 UNTIL NOW WE DON'T HAVE ELECTION.

HELP US TO HAVE ELECTION, TO HAVE A FREE DEMOCRATIC ELECTION UNDER ALL THE OCCUPIED PALESTINIAN TERRITORIES IN THE WEST BANK, GAZA STRIP, AND EAST JERUSALEM.

AND LET THE PALESTINIANS DECIDE BY THEMSELVES WHO CAN LEAD THEM.

I URGE AND WE WANT TO HAVE A NEW LEADERSHIP THAT REPRESENTS THE WHOLE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE.

AND EVEN WHAT IS GOING ON BACK HOME, IT'S -- THERE IS DIFFERENCE BETWEEN PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY AND WHO REPRESENTS THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE EVERYWHERE NOT PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY.

PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY IS A BY-PRODUCT OF AN AGREEMENT WHICH WAS SIGNED BETWEEN PLO AND ISRAEL.

AND THEY RECOGNIZED THE EXISTENCE OF ISRAEL, BUT ISRAEL DIDN'T RECOGNIZE UNTIL NOW THE EXISTENCE OF THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE.

AND ALL OF THE TIME YOU'LL HEAR IT THEY'LL SAY NOT FOR 66 BORDERS, NOT FOR JERUSALEM, NOT FOR THE SETTLEMENTS AND NOT FOR THE RIGHTS OF THEIR RETURN.

SO WHAT ELSE?

WE WANT TO LIVE SIDE BY SIDE BASED ON INTERNATIONAL LAW AND INTERNATIONAL RESOLUTIONS.

THIS IS THE GUARANTEE FOR LONG LASTING HARMONY AND LIFE BETWEEN PALESTINIANS AND ISRAELIS.

LET US HUMANIZE FOR ONCE NOT TO POLITICIZE FOR A POLITICAL AGENDA, TO LEAVE A LEG ESANE THEIR LIFE.

WHAT ARE THEY GOING TO SAY TO THEIR CHILDREN?

THEIR CHILDREN ARE THE FUTURE.

THEY ARE THE HOPE.

WE WANT THEM TO LIVE IN HARMONY.

AS I DELIVER BABIES AT THE HOSPITAL WHERE THEY CAN LIVE A PALESTINIAN SIDE BY SIDE TO ISRAEL, WHY NOT?

THEY LIVE OUTSIDE.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH INDEED.

WHAT A TERRIBLE SITUATION.

>>> AND YET WHAT WISDOM HE SHOWS BORNE OF EXPERIENCE AND DEEP, DEEP EMPATHY IN THE HARDEST AND MOST DIFFICULT OF TIMES.

NOW, PALESTINIAN HEALTH AUTHORITIES NOW SAY THAT MORE THAN 11,400 PEOPLE HAVE BEEN KILLED IN GAZA.

THE WAR WAS LAUNCHED AFTER THE OCTOBER 7th ATTACK WHEN AN ESTIMATED 1,200 PEOPLE WERE KILLED BY HAMAS.

NOW, THE ISRAELI MILITARY HAS GIVEN CNN BODY CAM FOOTAGE TAKEN FROM A HAMAS FIGHTER THAT DAY.

CORRESPONDENT OREN LEIBERMAN TAKES US THROUGH IT.

>> AN EXPLOSION BEFORE DAWN ON OCTOBER 7th.

THE TIME IS HERE, AND THE ATTACK IS UNDER WAY.

AHUE AKBAR THEY CHANT.

GO RIGHT.

LESS THAN 2 MINUTES LATER THEY CROSS THE SECURITY FENCE.

THEY'RE IN ISRAEL HEADING TOWARDS A KIBBUTZ.

THE SUN IS UP AND A DAY THAT WILL RESHAPE THE REGION HAS BEGUN.

THIS VIDEO COMES FROM THE BODY CAM OF ONE OF THE TERRORISTS.

IT WAS OBTAINED EXCLUSIVELY BY CNN FROM THE ISRAEL DEFENSE FORCES.

FOR THE FIRST TIME WE ALSO SEE VIDEO INSIDE HAMAS TUNNELS BEFORE THE ATTACK.

IT IS A LOOK INTO A NETWORK OF TUNNELS WITH WHAT APPEAR TO BE SUPPLIES STORED IN THE DARKNESS.

WRITING ON THE WALLS IN ARABIC SAYS "WHAT'S HIDDEN IS FAR WORSE."

ABOVEGROUND THE GUNMAN FIRES HIS FIRST SHOTS.

GO ON, MEN, GO ON MEN, HE SCREAMS.

THEY STOP ON THE WAY.

MORE THAN A DOZEN MILITANTS GATHER HERE TO PREPARE FOR THE NEXT ASSAULT.

ONE HAS SEVERAL ROCKET PROPELLED GRENADES ON HIS BACK.

MINUTES LATER A GROUP ADVANCES ACROSS AN OPEN FIELD MOVING TOWARDS THE VILLAGE.

THE GUNMAN CHARGES THE LAST BIT AND SPOTS AN ISRAELI SOLDIER ON THE GROUND.

OTHERS JOIN IN CELEBRATION.

MOMENTS LATER HE IS MORE COMPOSED AS HE TURNS THE CAMERA ON HIMSELF.

HE SAYS HIS NAME AND HE'S 24 YEARS OLD.

HE'S A FATHERER HE'S KILLED TWO ISRAELI SOLDIERS.

HE ASKS GOD FOR VICTORY AND WELL DESERVED MARTYRDOM.

ON MOTORBIKES NOW THEY KEEP ADVANCING MOVING TOGETHER ALONG EMPTY ISRAELI ROADS -- OR NEARLY EMPTY.

THE MAN CHEERS AS HE SEES BODIES ON THE ROAD.

HIS IS NOT THE FIRST WAVE.

HE ROUNDS A CORNER.

HERE WE HAVE SEEN THIS PLACE BEFORE AMONG THE FIRST VIDEOS TO COME OUT AFTER THE ATTACK.

THIS IS DASH CAM VIDEO FROM A CAR ON THE SAME ROAD MOMENTS EARLIER.

THE CAR APPROACHES A GROUP OF MILITANTS WHO OPEN FIRE.

THE CAR COASTS, ITS DRIVER ALMOST CERTAINLY DEAD BY NOW.

IT IS JUST AFTER 7:40 IN THE MORNING.

AFTER A QUICK RELOAD, THE GROUP APPROACHES A MILITARY BASE NEAR THE KIBBUTZ OF RAHIM.

FOR 65 MINUTES SINCE CROSSING THE GAZA FENCE, THEY'VE HAD NEARLY FREE REIN IN ISRAEL.

THE GUNMAN CLOSES THE DISTANCE FROM A WEAPON TOOK FROM AN ISRAELI SOLDIER OPENING FIRE.

AND FIRE COMES BACK.

THIS MAN'S PART OF THE ATTACK COMES TO AN END.

THE TERROR IS JUST BEGINNING.

>> AND LET'S NOT FORGET THE MORE THAN 240 OR SO HOSTAGES WHO WERE TAKEN ACROSS INCLUDING SMALL CHILDREN.

>>> AS GRIEF AND ANGER CASCADE ACROSS ISRAEL AND GAZA, LANGUAGE CAN BE WEAPONIZED TO DRIVE A FURTHER RIFT, SPREAD PROPAGANDA, AND ADVANCE AGENDAS.

THE WAR OF WORDS HAS ALSO BECOME A DIVIDING LINE BETWEEN THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY IN ITS EFFORTS TO RESPOND TO THE CRISIS.

AND IT DOESN'T STOP THERE.

FROM THE RADICAL SPEECHES OF DONALD TRUMP TO THE EXTREME RHETORIC OF RUSSIA, LANGUAGE PLAYS AN OFTEN DANGEROUS ROLE IN POLITICS.

YALE PHILOSOPHY PROFESSOR JASON STANLEY JOINS HARI SREENIVASAN TO DISCUSS HIS NEW BOOK "THE LANGUAGE OF POLITICS."

>> WELCOME BACK TO THE PROGRAM.

YOU HAVE A NEW BOOK OUT CALLED "THE POLITIC OF LANGUAGE."

AND IT IS HAPPENING AND DROPPING AT A TIME WHEN THERE IS SO MUCH LANGUAGE TO BE DISCUSSED.

MY FIRST EXAMPLE THAT I WANT TO PULL UP IS FORMER PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP AT A SPEECH ON VETERANS DAY.

HE SAID, QUOTE, WE PLEDGE TO YOU THAT WE WILL ROOT OUT THE COMMUNISTS, MARXISTS, FASCISTS, AND THE RADICAL LEFT THUGS THAT LIVE LIKE VERMIN WITHIN THE CONFINES OF OUR COUNTRY, THAT LIE AND STEAL AND CHEAT ON ELECTIONS.

BUT TELL ME WHEN YOU SEE THAT, WHEN YOU HEARD THAT WHAT WENT THROUGH YOUR MIND.

>> OKAY, THERE'S A BUNCH OF STUFF TO UNPACK IN THAT STATEMENT.

LET'S BEGIN WITH VERMIN AND MOVE TO THE CLAIM THAT JOE BIDEN IS A MARXIST WITHIN A COMMUNIST, ESSENTIALLY.

SO WHEN YOU SPEAK YOU ATTUNE PEOPLE TO CERTAIN THINGS.

SO YOU ATTUNE PEOPLE TO THINGS IN THE WORLD, IN THIS CASE RATS, AND YOU ATTUNE PEOPLE TO PRACTICES, IN THIS CASE THINGS YOU DO WITH RATS.

BY THIS KIND OF HATE SPEECH BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT IT IS, IT ATTUNES ITS AUDIENCE TO A PRACTICE OF DEALING WITH VERMIN.

SO IT IS THE -- THE CONCEPT OF GENOCIDE IS COMPLICATED IN THIS CASE BECAUSE IT'S BEING APPLIED TO POLITICAL OPPONENTS AND NOT AN ETHNIC GROUP.

BUT WE HAVE TO REMEMBER THAT THE SOVIET UNION INTERVENED IN THE DEFINITION OF GENOCIDE TO MAKE SURE IT DIDN'T APPLY TO POLITICAL OPPONENTS OR ELSE STALIN WOULD HAVE BEEN ACCUSED OF GENOCIDE.

SO THIS IS POLITICIZED -- A POLITICIZED SPEECH, AND WE CAN'T FORGET THAT.

NOW, THE SECOND ASPECT OF THIS IS THE OVERBROAD USE OF MARXIST AND COMMUNIST.

THAT ONE IS FAMILIAR FROM, SAY -- FROM THE WELL-KNOWN WRITINGS OF HITLER, WHERE HITLER SAID ESSENTIALLY ANY PRO-DEMOCRATIC PERSON, THE SOCIAL DEMOCRATS, ANY POLITICAL OPPONENT WAS A MARXIST.

SO THIS OVERBROAD USE OF MARXIST WAS USED IN THE 1930s BY THE NAZI PARTY TO INCARCERATE ANY -- ANYONE ACCUSED OF THIS CHARGE, WHICH MEANT SOCIAL DEMOCRATS, THE POLITICAL OPPONENTS OF THE CONSERVATIVES.

AND THIS -- AND WE HAVE TO REMEMBER IN THE 1930s, UNTIL NOVEMBER 1938, THE PEOPLE WHO OCCUPIED THE CONCENTRATION CAMP WERE HITLER'S POLITICAL OPPONENTS, THE PRO-DEMOCRACY FORCES, WHO HE FALSELY LABELED AS MARXIST.

AND, YOU KNOW, IT'S ABSURD TO SAY THAT THERE'S ANY KIND OF DRAMATIC MARXIST OR COMMUNIST MOVEMENT IN THE UNITED STATES TODAY.

>> SO WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY POLITICIDAL?

>> IT'S TARGETING A CLASS OF POLITICAL OPPONENTS FOR EXTERMINATION.

SO, FOR EXAMPLE, IN INDONESIA 1965 AND 1996 BETWEEN 1,000 AND 2,000 COMMUNIST NEBS WERE MURDERED BY THE GOVERNMENT.

STALIN COMMITTED POLITICIDES AGAINST MANY OF HIS POLITICAL -- WHAT HE PERCEIVED AS POLITICAL OPPONENTS.

SO IT'S TARGETING POLITICAL OPPONENTS RATHER THAN ETHNICAL OR RELIGIOUS GROUPS.

>> HE SAID THE THREAT FROM OUTSIDE FORCES IS FAR LESS SINTER, DANGEROUS AND GRAVE FROM THE THREAT FROM WITHIN.

OUR THREAT IS FROM WITHIN.

WHAT SORT OF ACTIONS DO YOU THINK, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT ATTUNING AN AUDIENCE.

WHAT DOES IT DO TO AN AUDIENCE WHEN THEY HEAR THEIR LEADER SAY THINGS LIKE THAT?

>> SO IT CLEAVES THE AUDIENCE INTO HIS SUPPORTERS AND THE OPPONENTS.

AND THE OPPONENTS ARE BEING SAID EXISTENTIAL THREAT THAT NOTHING THEY SAY CAN BE TAKEN AT FACE VALUE, THAT YOU CAN'T TRUST ANYTHING THEY SAY BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, IN WAR YOU CAN'T TRUST YOUR OPPONENT.

IF YOUR OPPONENT IS TELLING THE TRUTH IN WAR, SAYING SOMETHING IN WAR, THEY'RE JUST DOING IT IN ORDER TO DECEIVE YOU.

SO THE IDEA HERE IS TO CREATE A FRIEND/ENEMY DISTUNGZ.

AND AS WE SAY IN OUR BOOK THE FRIEND/ENEMY DISTINCTION HAS A PROCESS.

AND YOU CUT OUT YOUR OPPONENTS.

HE'S TRYING TO CREATE A WALL BETWEEN DEMOCRATS AND HIM AND SAYING TO HIS SUPPORTERS THIS IS NOT ABOUT DISCOURSE.

THIS IS ABOUT US VERSUS THEM.

THEY'RE AN EXISTENTIAL THREAT TO THE NATION.

DON'T TALK TO THEM, INCARCERATE THEM.

>> SO IN THIS CONTEXT, YOUR BOOK -- YOUR NEW BOOK, "THE POLITICS OF LANGUAGE," YOU'RE REALLY SAYING THAT SO MUCH OF THE CONFLICTS THAT WE'RE SEEING AROUND THE WORLD TODAY HAVE A PRETTY SIGNIFICANT COMPONENT WHERE THE LANGUAGE USED TO DESCRIBE THEM, THE OPPONENTS AND THE FRAMING EITHER, WHAT, IS AN ACCELERANT OR ENTRENCHES PEOPLE ONTO ONE SIDE?

HOW WOULD YOU DESCRIBE IT?

>> WELL, AS A PHILOSOPHER SAID, YOU KNOW, EVERYTHING IS MIXED BETWEEN WORLD AND LANGUAGE.

SEPARATING OUT WHAT LANGUAGE DOES AND WHAT WORLD, WHAT FACTUALITY IS IS VERY DIFFICULT.

SO THERE'S LIKE A FEEDBACK LOOP, IF YOU WILL, BETWEEN THE SPEECH AND THE ACTIONS.

CERTAINLY THE TALKING STRENGTHENS THE BACKGROUND -- THE BACKGROUND IDEOLOGY.

YOU KNOW YOU TALK ABOUT VERMIN, YOU LINK IT TO, SAY, IN THIS CASE A STOLEN ELECTION.

AND THEN YOU DO A FEEDBACK LOOP.

SO YOU REPEAT IT, YOU LINK IT TO THE BACKGROUND IDEOLOGY.

GERMANY IN 1931 ACCORDING TO THE SCHOLAR OF NAZIISM WAS THE LEAST ANTI-SEMITIC COUNTRY IN EUROPE.

IF YOU EXPECTED A GENOCIDE YOU WOULD HAVE EXPECTED IT, SAY, IN FRANCE.

BUT -- IN WESTERN EUROPE THAT IS.

BUT BY 1939 IT'S THE MOST ANTI-SEMITISM COUNTRY, AND THAT'S BECAUSE THIS KIND OF FEEDBACK LOOP, THIS KIND OF REPETITIVE -- REPETITIVE LINKAGES BETWEEN VERMIN AND THE TARGETED PEOPLE.

AND THEN YOU HAVE TO LINK IT BACK AS THE NAZIS DID.

THEY LINKED THIS BACK TO THE JEWS -- GERMAN JEWS OF THE WORLD, JEWISH CONSPIRACY SUPPOSEDLY BETRAYING THE GERMANS IN WORLD WAR I, WHICH AS TIMOTHY SNIDER HAS POINTED OUT IS LIKE THE CURRENT SITUATION.

THEY'RE SAYING THESE HIDDEN MARXIST FORCES BETRAYED THE COUNTRY BY STEALING THE ELECTION, AND WE NEED REVENGE.

>> SO THE MORE IMMEDIATE CONFLICT IS RAGING RIGHT NOW BETWEEN ISRAEL AND GAZA.

AND WE HAVE SEEN SO MANY DIFFERENT EXAMPLES OF LANGUAGE, SPECIFIC WORDS BEING USED WITH VERY DIFFERENT CONNOTATIONS AND MEANING BY BOTH SIDES OF THIS.

HOW -- HOW DO YOU MAKE SENSE OF SOMETHING WHEN YOU HEAR THE WORD GENOCIDE BEING USED IN DIFFERENT DEFINITIONS OR APARTHEID OR WHETHER THEY'RE PARALLEL OR FRANKLY THE WORD CEASE-FIRE AND HOW POLITICAL THAT WORD HAS BECOME, WHICH PRIOR TO THIS WOULD HAVE BEEN A FAIRLY INNOCUOUS LET'S JUST PUT DOWN THE GUNS FOR A SECOND KIND OF COMMENT?

>> LET'S BEGIN WITH CEASE-FIRE, OKAY?

SO WHAT IS THE EXPRESSION CEASE-FIRE TRYING TO DO?

I THINK CEASE-FIRE TRIES TO PUT A KIND OF EQUIVALENCE BETWEEN SIDES.

IT TRIES TO -- IT SUGGESTS THAT THERE'S KIND OF A BARGAINING MOMENT.

AND EACH SIDE THINKS THAT THE OTHER SIDE IS LIKE A GENOCIDAL THREAT.

AND SO CEASE-FIRE KIND OF SUGGESTS EMOTIONALLY A BREAK IN HOSTILITIES OF THE SORT THAT OCCURRED IN WORLD WAR I WHERE IT WASN'T CLEAR WHO THE RIGHT SIDE AND THE WRONG SIDE WAS.

A CEASE-FIRE WITH THE NAZIS IS HARD TO IMAGINE, RIGHT?

SO CEASE-FIRE HAS THE EMOTIONAL EFFECT OF TONING -- TONING THE EMOTIONS DOWN.

LET'S MOVE TO THE WORD GENOCIDE.

THIS IS A WORD FRAUGHT WITH HISTORICAL ASSOCIATIONS.

NOW, I THINK WE CAN TALK -- WE CAN TALK ABOUT THE FACTUALITY OF THE WORD GENOCIDE.

IN OUR WORK WE EMPHASIZE AGAIN AND AGAIN THAT SPEECH IS MORE THAN JUST ABOUT FACTUALITY.

HERE IT'S PARTICULARLY HORRIFIC TO ACCUSE ISRAEL OF GENOCIDE BECAUSE THE VERY WORD GENOCIDE HISTORICALLY ORIGINATES CONNECT TODAY THE HOLOCAUST.

SO WHEN YOU CAST THAT AGAINST ISRAEL, ISRAEL'S ACTIONS WHETHER IT'S FACTUALLY APT OR NOT, IT CARRIES AN EXTRA KNIFE EDGE.

NOW, THE OTHER DIRECTION WHICH ISRAEL OR VARIOUS FORCES IN ISRAEL ACCUSE HAMAS OF GENOCIDE, THEY'RE TRYING TO CONNECT HAMAS TO THE NAZIS.

NOW, HAMAS IS A VIOLENT TERRORIST, GENOCIDAL MURDEROUS ORGANIZATION THAT IN NO SENSE SHOULD BE EQUATED TO PALESTINIANS.

BUT THIS SORT OF GROWS, AND THIS IS WHERE YOU'RE FINDING THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT OR PORTIONS OF OF THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT SAYING, WELL, THE ALLIES BOMBED GERMANY INTO SUBMISSION, KILLED A LOT OF CIVILIANS.

THAT'S WHAT WE'RE DOING TO TARGET HAMAS BECAUSE THAT SITUATION IS EXACTLY LIKE THE NAZIS BECAUSE THEY TRIED TO COMMIT GENOCIDE AGAINST US.

HOW IS IT THAT THEY FEEL OKAY USING THAT TERM GENOCIDE AGAINST A VERY WEAK -- MUCH WEAKER OPPONENT?

HAMAS AND THE COMBINED FORCES OF HAMAS ARE STRONG AND TERRIFYING A THREAT, BUT IT'S NOT LIKE NAZI GERMANY.

NAZI GERMANY WAS AN OVERWHELMING POWER THAT -- THAT THREATENED THE WORLD AND TARGETED JEWS FOR NO REASON WHATSOEVER.

THERE'S A LONG HISTORY HERE.

SO WHAT'S HAPPENING IN GAZA IS NOT NAZI GERMANY.

I MEAN THAT'S ABSURD.

THERE'S A LONG HISTORY HERE.

BUT BY SAYING THAT HAMAS IS PERPETRATING GENOCIDE, AND IT'S LIKE THE ALLIED INVASION OF GERMANY, THEY'RE REACHING BACK INTO HISTORY TO TRY TO MAKE THESE HISTORICAL CONNECTIONS.

AGAIN, IT'S NOT FACTUALITY.

IT'S HISTORY.

>> IN THE WAKE OF THE HORRENDOUS ATTACK BY HAMAS JUST TWO DAYS AFTER THERE WAS A DEFENSE MINISTER OF ISRAEL.

HE SAID, YOU KNOW, WE ARE FIGHTING AGAINST HUMAN ANIMALS, AND WE ARE ACTING ACCORDINGLY.

GIVEN THE CONTEXT OF WHAT WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT, WHAT YOU'VE BEEN WRITING ABOUT, WHAT WENT THROUGH YOUR HEAD WHEN YOU STARTED TO HEAR THINGS LIKE THAT?

>> THERE'S BEEN TOO MUCH GENOCIDAL SPEECH ON THESE -- ON BOTH SIDES, REALLY, BUT THAT'S BOTH SIDERING IT AND IN THIS CASE ISRAEL IS THE STRONGER POWER.

IT WAS HORRIFIC WHAT RUMAUS DID.

I THINK IT IS WARRANTED AND INDEED REQUIRED TO CALL HAMAS A TERRORIST ORGANIZATION BECAUSE THEIR ACTS WERE TERRORIST.

BUT WHEN YOU CALL PALESTINIANS HUMAN ANIMALS, YOUR SAYING THEY DON'T HAVE ANY RIGHTS, YOU CAN KILL THEIR CHILDREN.

YOU'RE JUSTIFYING IT.

YOU'RE SAYING YOU DON'T HAVE TO APPLY THE LAWS OF JUST WAR.

YOU CAN TREAT CHILDREN AS A NONHUMAN ANIMALS.

YOU ARE SAYING YOU DON'T HAVE TO TREAT THEM LIKE HUMANS.

AND, YOU KNOW, YOU NEED TO TREAT EVERYONE LIKE HUMANS.

AND I THINK IT'S A SIMPLE MORAL DICTUM DON'T KILL CHILDREN.

>> WHAT IS LANGUAGE THAT YOU CAN USE WHEN TWO SIDES THINK THAT THE OTHER ONES ARE ACTING LIKE NAZIS AND BEING GENOCIDAL?

>> YEAH, IT'S VERY IMPORTANT TO SWITCH VOCABULARY IN THESE CASES WHEN WE'RE DEALING WITH FRAUGHT HISTORICAL ASSOCIATIONS.

AND OTHER TIMES IT'S NECESSARY TO USE THE FRAUGHT HISTORICAL VOCABULARY.

I THINK IT'S NECESSARY TO POINT OUT THAT TRUMP IS SPEAKING LIKE A NAZI.

HE'S NOT SPEAKING ANTI-SEMMICLY.

THERE'S NO ANTI-SEMITISM THERE, THOUGH ANTI-SEMITES WILL HEAR IT THAT WAY.

IT'S IMPORTANT TO USE HISTORICAL REFERENCES.

NOW WHEN IT'S IMPORTANT TO BACK AWAY FROM HISTORICAL RESIDENCES FROM TERMS THAT ARE LOADED, TO CALM THINGS DOWN, HOW DO WE DO THAT?

AND I THINK MY COLLEAGUES AT JAIL WHO WORK ON CLIMATE CHANGE, THEY'VE MADE ADVANCES ON THIS PROBLEM.

THEY GO TO COMMUNITIES THAT TEND TO WHEN THEY HEAR THE EXPRESSION HUMAN CAUSED CLIMATE CHANGE OR CLIMATE CHANGE, THEY TEND TO THINK THAT'S THE OPPONENTS, THAT'S THE PEOPLE I SHOULDN'T TRUST, THAT'S VOCABULARY, YOU KNOW, THAT MEANS THEY'RE DEMOCRATS.

THEY'RE DEMOCRATS.

AND THEY TRY TO POINT THEM TO ACTUAL CIRCUMSTANCES IN THEIR COMMUNITIES THAT -- THAT ARE ACTUALLY THE CONSEQUENCES OF CLIMATE CHANGE BUT THINGS THAT THE LOCAL COMMUNITY SEES.

WE'RE LOSING SAND ON THE BEACH.

LET'S DO SOMETHING ABOUT THAT.

LET'S PROTECT OUR SHORELINE.

SO YOU SWITCH THE VOCABULARY UP TO AVOID THE EXPRESSIONS THAT ARE CONNECTED WITH -- WITH POLARIZATION.

AND THE GOAL OF -- THE GOAL OF -- ONE GOAL OF POLITICS, OF POLITICAL STRATEGY IS INFUSE MORE AND MORE WORDS WITH THIS KIND OF IDENTITY.

SO AS SOON AS YOUR POLITICAL OPPONENT USES ONE OF THOSE WORDS -- IN THIS CASE CLIMATE CHANGE -- PEOPLE'S MINDS SHUTOFF.

SO THEY GROUP PEOPLE INTO GROUPS AND PEOPLE DON'T LISTEN TO THE ARGUMENTS.

THEY'RE JUST LIKE, OKAY, THAT'S MY OPPONENT.

>> ONE OF THE EXAMPLES YOU TALK ABOUT IS THE PHRASE SUPER PREDATOR AND HOW SUCCESSFUL THAT MYTH BECAME.

I MEAN IT WAS BACK, WHAT, IN THE '80s AND DONALD TRUMP EVEN ACCUSED JOE BIDEN OF USING THAT PHRASE.

AND WHILE THERE IS NO RECORD OF THAT, BUT THERE IS RECORD OF AT THE TIME FIRST LADY HILLARY CLINTON USING IT.

WHAT WERE THE RIPPLE EFFECTS OF THAT?

AND WHY DID THAT STICK SO MUCH IN.

>> YEAH, SO SUPER PREDATOR COMES FROM THE MID-90s.

AND THAT'S IMPORTANT BECAUSE VIOLENT CRIME IN THE UNITED STATES STARTS DROPPING IN 1991.

SUPER PREDATOR THEORY COMES AFTER THIS DROP IN VIOLENT CRIME.

SO JOHN -- ITS SORT OF FORMULATOR BEGINS I THINK HIS 1995 PAPER "MY BACK CRIME PROBLEM" OR MINE OR YOURS WITH VIOLENT CRIME HAS BEEN DROPPING BUT DON'T CRACK THE CHAMPAGNE CORKS YET.

AND HE PREDICTS THERE'S GOING TO BE A NEW GROUP OF PEOPLE, SUPER PREDATORSCH AND MOST OF THEM ARE YOUNG, BLACK MEN HE SAYS.

AND THEY CAN KILL, MAIM, AND RAPE WITHOUT REMORSE.

NEVER EXPLAINING WHY THEY WOULD DO THAT IF THEY HAVE NO EMOTIONS.

AND SO HE PREDICTS THAT VIOLENT CRIME WILL SHOOT UP.

AND OF COURSE VIOLENT CRIME CONTINUED TO SINK SO THAT 2010, 2012 WE'RE LOOKING AT THE LOWEST RATES OF VIOLENT CRIME RECORDED IN MODERN U.S. HISTORY.

SO HE WAS WILDLY WRONG, BUT THE VOCABULARY AFFECTED POLICY.

IN PARTICULAR IT AFFECTED POLICIES AND MANY STATES ADOPTED LAWS TO CHARGE JUVENILES AS ADULTS.

AND SO WHAT HAPPENED -- SO THERE WAS NO -- THERE WAS NO JUSTIFICATION FOR THIS.

A SUPER PREDATOR THING WAS A MYTH.

IT WAS A COMPLETE MYTH.

BUT LIKE THE VERMIN VOCABULARY, IT JUSTIFIED TREATING CHILDREN IN TERRIBLE WAYS.

SO WE KNOW FROM U.S. HISTORY THAT THIS WAY OF DESCRIBING PEOPLE LEADS TO TREATMENTS LIKE LOCKING KIDS UP OR SENTENCING TO LIFE IN PRISON.

SO WE CAN JUST IMAGINE WHAT WILL HAPPEN WITH THE CONTEMPORARY VOCABULARY.

>> PROFESSOR JASON STANLEY FROM YALE THE AUTHOF THE NEW BOOK CALLED "THE POLITICS OF LANGUAGE."

>> AND THAT IS IT FOR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.

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THANKS FOR WATCHING AND GOOD NIGHT FROM LONDON.