AMNA NAWAZ: Good evening.

I'm Amna Nawaz.

GEOFF BENNETT: And I'm Geoff Bennett.

On the "News Hour" tonight: In a major reversal, President Trump says Republicans should vote to release the Jeffrey Epstein files.

AMNA NAWAZ: Charlotte, North Carolina becomes the latest target of the Trump administration's immigration crackdown, with dozens arrested and detained.

GEOFF BENNETT: And the Dominican Republic enforces its own immigration crackdown on Haitians seeking safe haven from gang violence.

CALERB, Haitian Migrant (through translator): If I could survive in Haiti, I would stay because, here, we are not living.

Because we are not living, we are surviving.

There is no life for Haitians.

(BREAK) GEOFF BENNETT: Welcome to the "News Hour."

The House of Representatives is gearing up to vote on a bill that would force the Department of Justice to release its files in the case of the late convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein following an apparent shift from the White House.

AMNA NAWAZ: President Trump is now urging his party to move forward with the vote after a few key Republicans joined Democrats in supporting the measure.

Congressional correspondent Lisa Desjardins begins our coverage.

LISA DESJARDINS: Last night from President Trump, conflicting reactions and news around convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein.

On the tarmac, a refusal to answer.

DONALD TRUMP, President of the United States: Fake news like you, they just keep bringing that up to deflect from the tremendous success of the Trump administration.

LISA DESJARDINS: But, on social media, a 180.

Trump wrote that House Republicans should vote to release the Epstein files held by DOJ, declaring: "We have nothing to hide."

And then today, he was asked, would he sign the Epstein file bill if it passes?

DONALD TRUMP: Sure I would.

Let the Senate look at it, let anybody look at it.

But don't talk about it too much, because, honestly, I don't want to take it away from us.

LISA DESJARDINS: That stance is a reversal, following weeks of intense work by the White House to twist arms to prevent the bill from passing, this because four House Republicans joined with Democrats on what's called a discharge petition to force that vote.

And now one of them, former Trump ally Marjorie Taylor Greene, is a Trump target.

The president withdrew his endorsement of her in a TRUTH Social post late last week, saying she complains too much.

In recent weeks, Greene has split with Trump and GOP leaders on more issues, including health care subsidies and handling of the government shutdown, which ended up being the longest in American history.

The Georgia congresswoman was once one of the president's fiercest allies on the campaign trail.

REP.

MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): We have once again nominated for president the founding father of the America first movement, Donald John Trump.

(CHEERING) LISA DESJARDINS: And in the Capitol, where she wore a Trump cap in the House chamber, and she famously had him on her cell phone during the 2023 GOP speaker fiasco.

But now Trump is sharply attacking her, as he would an enemy.

REP.

MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE: Unfortunately, it has all come down to the Epstein files.

LISA DESJARDINS: Representative Greene appeared on CNN yesterday.

She reiterated her calls for transparency.

And she has posted and said that Trump's words have sparked significant new threats against her.

REP.

MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE: The most hurtful thing he said, which is absolutely untrue, is, he called me a traitor.

And that is so extremely wrong, and those are the types of words used that can radicalize people against me and put my life in danger.

LISA DESJARDINS: The president was asked about that last night.

DONALD TRUMP: Her life is in danger?

Who's that?

QUESTION: Marjorie Taylor Greene, she says... DONALD TRUMP: Marjorie "Traitor" Greene.

I don't think her life is in danger.

I don't think -- frankly, I don't think anybody cares about her.

LISA DESJARDINS: This as voices of those harmed by Epstein have new reach.

WOMAN: It's time to bring the secrets out of the shadows.

It's time to shine a light into the darkness.

LISA DESJARDINS: Over the weekend, several survivors of Epstein's abuse released a public service announcement demanding that Congress force release of all the files.

Adding to the headlines, a congressional committee released a trove of Epstein e-mails last week in which Trump was mentioned as having known about "the girls."

The White House insisted he did no wrong, and the president has long dismissed the controversy as a smear campaign.

But support for releasing the files is growing and the full House could vote as soon as tomorrow.

Just in the past few minutes, Speaker Johnson confirmed and his office has confirmed to me that the vote is expected now in the House tomorrow.

Also tomorrow, Epstein survivors plan a press conference on Capitol Hill -- Amna.

AMNA NAWAZ: Lisa, it was, as you said, a 180 by the president.

We don't often see that from President Trump.

How is that reversal going to impact that expected House vote on releasing the files tomorrow?

LISA DESJARDINS: Well, I think this is an admission of really the state of play in the House.

This was going to pass.

And Thomas Massie, the Republican sponsor of that discharge petition, felt he could get two-thirds vote to override the president.

So this is a kind of fait accompli that the president is admitting to here, but now it becomes even easier for Republicans to sign on board.

And you wonder, if this might be even a near-unanimous bill, which was not at all what we expected in the House as it takes its vote.

AMNA NAWAZ: The House is one thing.

The Senate is different, as you know.

How does this look in the Senate?

LISA DESJARDINS: Well, working and talking with Majority Leader John Thune's office today, they said they were waiting for the House to figure out their timing.

But I have to tell you, talking to Republican senators, they were uncomfortable because they also generally wanted to pass this.

I think this is also on a glide path there.

So an important factor, once the Senate votes, it then goes to the president, who, as you heard just today, said he will sign it.

Now, this bill means in 15 days, no longer, will those files be released.

It demands in that timeline, within two weeks, the files be released.

AMNA NAWAZ: Meantime, we saw the president has now forced an investigation of Democrats related to Jeffrey Epstein, including former President Clinton.

What do we know about that?

And how does that factor in this?

LISA DESJARDINS: This is something prosecutors, in particular, former prosecutors, are paying attention to, because there is a potential that the Justice Department could say, we can't release these files because there is an ongoing investigation.

And that is something that the bill itself allows for.

So we're watching to see if this is what might happen here.

But all of that aside, at the same time, President Trump has the ability to release these files now.

We spoke to a former prosecutor Jessica Roth about this.

JESSICA ROTH, Former Federal Prosecutor: Historically, presidents didn't involve themselves in such decisions by the Department of Justice about what files to release.

But given that this president has involved himself in a very direct way with decisions made by the Department of Justice, it really begs the question why he has chosen not to exercise that kind of direct control over the Department of Justice decision-making in this particular context.

LISA DESJARDINS: Trump putting this on Congress, even though he has some of this power himself.

AMNA NAWAZ: Meanwhile, I have to ask about Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene.

LISA DESJARDINS: Yes.

AMNA NAWAZ: You have covered her since she entered Congress.

What should we understand about her break with the president?

LISA DESJARDINS: This is quite a wild break.

I think it tells us that defining MAGA is not something anyone other than Trump can do right now.

She has obviously split from him, but I will tell you, I have noticed in the last day, she has not posted anything on social media.

For all of her open rebellion against him in the last few days and weeks, now she has gone silent.

At the same time, it's interesting how Democrats view all of this.

They think in the end, the Epstein files show vulnerability for Trump, and maybe that's why he's resisted them so much.

Whatever it says about him, they think it shows that he has some kind of corrupt tendencies.

They might be able to bring that up in the next campaign.

However, I think everyone agrees the economy is still going to be front and center next year.

AMNA NAWAZ: Always is.

Lisa Desjardins with the very latest, thank you.

LISA DESJARDINS: You're welcome.

GEOFF BENNETT: In the day's other headlines: The acting head of FEMA is stepping down after just six months in the role.

David Richardson took over as the agency's acting administrator in May after the previous leader was pushed out of the job.

He was widely criticized for the slow federal response to the floods in Texas that killed at least 136 people this summer.

FEMA has been in limbo since the start of this Trump administration, with both the president and Homeland Security Chief Kristi Noem calling for a major overhaul of the agency.

Richardson will be replaced by FEMA Chief of Staff Karen Evans starting December 1.

President Trump says he's open to military strikes on Mexico if it would help his broader crackdown on drug trafficking.

Mr.

Trump's comments came in response to a reporter's question during that Oval Office event this afternoon.

DONALD TRUMP, President of the United States: Would I launch strikes in Mexico to stop drugs?

It's OK with me.

Whatever we have to do to stop drugs, Mexico is -- look, I looked at Mexico City over the weekend.

There's some big problems over there.

GEOFF BENNETT: The president also said he'd be proud to take out cocaine factories in Colombia, saying it would save millions of lives, but he stopped short of announcing any immediate action.

Today's comments come as the Trump administration has carried out more than 20 strikes on alleged drug boats in the Caribbean and the Eastern Pacific.

The U.S.

Supreme Court said today it will hear arguments on whether the government can control the number of asylum claims at the U.S.-Mexico border.

At issue is a practice called metering, which allows border officials to stop asylum seekers from setting foot on American soil until space opens up to process their claims.

It's been used by both Democratic and Republican administrations.

The Biden administration formally ended the practice, but the Trump administration has signaled it may seek to reinstate it.

The court will hear arguments early next year.

A federal judge says the Justice Department may have committed misconduct in its handling of its criminal case against former FBI Director James Comey.

Magistrate Judge William Fitzpatrick cited what he called profound investigative missteps, which included fundamental misstatements of the law, plus the use of potentially privileged communications and unexplained irregularities in the grand jury transcripts.

The judge is ordering the DOJ to turn over grand jury materials to Comey's defense team.

Mr.

Comey is charged with lying to Congress in 2020 over whether he had authorized FBI leaks to the media, which he denies.

The knock-on effects of the longest-ever government shutdown are easing, including today in the skies.

The FAA lifted the last of its flight restrictions at 40 airports from this morning, citing a steady decline in staffing concerns as air traffic controllers return to work.

They are just some of the hundreds of thousands of federal workers who are back on the job.

Many should be getting the rest of their back pay this week, though timing will vary by agency.

And SNAP, or food stamp benefits, have resumed for low-income families, rolling out this week on a state-by-state basis.

And all remaining Smithsonian museums were set to reopen by today.

The U.N.

Security Council has voted to approve a U.S.-backed cease-fire plan for Gaza, which includes an international stabilization for the territory.

It's a crucial step in the fragile cease-fire that took effect last month.

And it comes as displaced Palestinians endure the first bout of heavy rains of the winter season.

This weekend, locals salvaged their few belongings from makeshift shelters, as seen in this footage from our producer in Gaza Shams Odeh.

For this displaced mother, the rainy weather and winds only deepened the suffering she and her children were already facing.

AMAL JUNDIYEH, Displaced Palestinian (through translator): Since the first day of rain, we have been living like this, me and my kids all night like this.

Some are even sick or injured.

We haven't slept all night.

Now we're going to sleep soaked like this.

GEOFF BENNETT: Meantime, a report by a human rights group says at least 98 Palestinians have died in Israeli custody since the start of the war in Gaza.

The report by Physicians for Human Rights-Israel found that systematic torture and the denial of access to medical care contributed to many of the deaths.

It adds that the actual death toll is likely higher.

But Israel has said it's taken steps to improve the treatment of Palestinian detainees.

In Nigeria, officials say gunmen attacked a high school today, abducting 25 girls and killing a member of staff.

The assault took place at a government school in Kebbi State.

Police say the girls were taken from their dorms before dawn this morning.

So far, no group has claimed responsibility.

Nigeria has faced a surge in mass kidnappings in recent years, often carried out by armed gangs seeking ransom payments.

In 2014, the Islamist militant group Boko Haram kidnapped more than 270 schoolgirls.

Some have yet to return home.

On Wall Street today, stocks sank to start the week.

The Dow Jones industrial average lost more than 500 points.

The Nasdaq dropped nearly 200 points on the day.

The S&P 500 ended firmly in negative territory.

Still to come on the "News Hour": the white house prepares to welcome the controversial Saudi crown prince; the Trump administration changes the national approach to ending homelessness; and Tamara Keith and Amy Walter break down the latest political headlines.

AMNA NAWAZ: Charlotte, North Carolina, is the latest city to be targeted by the Trump administration as part of its crackdown on undocumented immigrants.

Our William Brangham has more on how local officials are responding to Border Patrol agents on the city streets.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Amna, at least 130 people were arrested this weekend as part of the crackdown, which Border Patrol officials have named Charlotte's Web after the children's novel.

Officers have already come under fire from the city's residence.

One man had his truck windows smashed by agents, despite the fact that he was an American citizen.

Local residents recorded agents questioning local landscapers about their immigration status.

So, for more on how the city is responding, we are joined now by George Dunlap.

He serves as a commissioner for Mecklenburg County, which includes the city of Charlotte.

Commissioner Dunlap, thank you so much for being here.

Can you just tell us, what is the latest, as far as you know, about these ICE raids in your community?

GEORGE DUNLAP, Mecklenburg County, North Carolina, Commissioner: Well, the latest is that the ICE raids continue.

As a result of that, people continue to be sheltered in their homes, almost as if though they are prisoners.

People are oftentimes intimidated because of the tactics of the ICE agents.

And it's just wreaking havoc in our community.

One of the things I will tell you is that Charlotte spent more than 25 years developing community policing.

And it's working in our community.

That's when community and police collaborate, working together to reduce crime in our community.

And it seems as if, though, in a matter of a few hours, ICE agents has turned that into rubble.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: In the last few days, the man who is running these operations, Gregory Bovino, has been posting photographs of some of the people that they allege that they have been arresting.

And they're saying that these people are guilty of crimes, like DUIs, hit-and-runs, aggravated assaults.

And they're arguing these people should be removed from your community and you should be grateful for this.

What is your response to that?

GEORGE DUNLAP: Well, my thought is that, if Border Patrol, ICE agents were doing their jobs, they would be at the border, stopping people from crossing, as they suggested that they would do.

Nobody's upset at the fact that they go after hardened criminals, but we have not heard any information about hardened criminals that they have arrested, none at all.

I just can't help but believe that they're here to wreak havoc on the community, to divide families.

People are hurting, people are upset.

This community is not accustomed to that.

Out of respect, I think they owe the community leaders an opportunity to engage and have conversation.

If they really, really wanted to reduce crime in our community, then they should have a target focus and at least let us know what it is that they're trying to do.

It's possible that they could get help if they really wanted to go after hardened criminals, but that's not what they're doing.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: So you're not getting communication either on their operations, who it is that they're specifically targeting, or the people that they have been apprehending?

GEORGE DUNLAP: None at all.

And, as we have discussed it, a lot of the elected officials have been discussing why that is the case.

And we believe that it's primarily because most of the elected officials in Charlotte are of African American descent.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: And you think that it's simply because you are Black Americans and most likely, I believe, Democrats that the administration is choosing not to cooperate?

GEORGE DUNLAP: Absolutely.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Can you tell me a little bit more?

I know this is a community in Charlotte in particular that has quite a few foreign-born residents.

And you described the fact that people are sheltering in place right now.

What else are you hearing from people about the mood on the streets?

GEORGE DUNLAP: Well, we have businesses that have closed down because they don't want their customers to come out and be subjected to brutality, the people who own laundromats closing them down because they don't want customers to come out and be subjugated to this brutality, grocery store owners closing down, kids not showing up at school, churches not having church service for fear that border agents and ICE agents will just show up.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: As you know, there was a brutal stabbing of the Ukrainian woman, not by an immigrant, but several months ago.

And many Republicans pointed to that as evidence that your city was a lawless, dangerous place to be.

Do you think that's partly also why you were chosen?

GEORGE DUNLAP: Absolutely not.

Crimes of that nature happen all across this country every day.

That was an unfortunate situation where a person who had mental illness committed that act.

You can't say that that represents our community.

We have a loving community, as evident by the support that we provide to those people who are immigrants.

They are part of the fabric of our community.

They are part of that economic engine.

So, no, I wouldn't suggest that that's true at all.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: But you don't think that was an excuse that was used to then send these agents in?

GEORGE DUNLAP: Well, that may be the excuse that they use, but I would say that's invalid.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: All right, Commissioner George Dunlap, thank you so much for being here.

We really appreciate you taking the time.

GEORGE DUNLAP: Well, thank you.

GEOFF BENNETT: Today, President Trump announced he will sell Saudi Arabia F-35 fighter jets.

It comes ahead of tomorrow's arrival of the kingdom's de facto ruler, Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman.

For years, MBS, as he's widely known, was shunned on the world stage, but President Biden visited him in Riyadh three years ago.

And Nick Schifrin reports that now President Trump will bestow on the 40-year-old ruler the pomp and pageantry usually reserved for an official state visit.

NICK SCHIFRIN: At the White House, preparations for a royal welcome.

Saudi flags flutter on Pennsylvania Avenue ahead of a presidential embrace of Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman's first visit to the Oval Office since 2018.

DONALD TRUMP, President of the United States: Five hundred and twenty-five million dollars, that's peanuts for you.

MAN: The U.S.

Marines and Saudi Marines.

NICK SCHIFRIN: The two are expected to sign a new defense pact that will expand training, commit the U.S.

to consider military intervention if Saudi Arabia were attacked, and sell the U.S.'

most advanced fighter jet, the F-35.

DONALD TRUMP: We will be doing that.

We will be selling F-35s, yes.

MAN: An engineering marvel.

NICK SCHIFRIN: The U.S.

and Saudi Arabia are also expected to sign an artificial intelligence agreement that will allow Saudi Arabia to purchase the world's most advanced computer chips, a nuclear agreement, although it's not clear whether Saudi Arabia will be allowed to enrich its own uranium, and a joint mining and distribution agreement of Saudi rare earth minerals.

But what won't be signed tomorrow, one of President Trump's biggest priorities.

DONALD TRUMP: I hope that Saudi Arabia will be going into the Abraham Accords fairly shortly.

NICK SCHIFRIN: Five years ago, Israel and three Arab countries normalized relations.

DONALD TRUMP: We're here this afternoon to change the course of history.

NICK SCHIFRIN: Since then, Saudi Arabia was always considered the biggest prize.

Today, Saudi Arabia is willing to pay for Gaza's reconstruction and endorses U.S.

plans to replace Israeli soldiers still in Gaza with international troops, but Saudi officials insist, until Israel's ready to establish a Palestinian state in Gaza, they will not join the Abraham Accords.

And Mohammed bin Salman himself has raised the price.

MOHAMMED BIN SALMAN, Saudi Arabian Crown Prince (through translator): The kingdom renews its condemnation and categorical rejection of the genocide committed by Israel against the brotherly Palestinian people.

NARRATOR: One of the most colorful visits to the presidential cruiser was that of the ruler of Saudi Arabia.

NICK SCHIFRIN: The U.S.-Saudi relationship is America's longest with an Arab state.

NARRATOR: A vastly important question of oil.

NICK SCHIFRIN: Eighty years ago, president Franklin Roosevelt greeted Ibn Saud, the warrior monarch backed by a fanatical clergy, to create a fundamental agreement, American security for Saudi energy.

The alliance was tested after the 2018 assassination of Washington Post columnist Jamal Khashoggi inside the Saudi consulate in Istanbul.

The U.S.

intelligence community assessed that MBS approved the operation based on his -- quote -- "control of decision-making in the kingdom, the direct involvement of a key adviser and members of Mohammed bin Salman's protective detail in the operation and the crown prince's support for using violent measures to silence dissidents abroad, including Khashoggi."

DONALD TRUMP: I like him a lot.

I like him too much.

NICK SCHIFRIN: But President Trump has stuck by MBS, who's expected to lead the kingdom for the next half-century.

He will come to Washington not getting everything he wants or giving everything away, but he will arrive to open arms.

For the PBS "News Hour," I'm Nick Schifrin.

GEOFF BENNETT: For perspective now on tomorrow's visit to the White House by the Saudi crown prince, we get two views.

Former Congressman Tom Malinowski was assistant secretary of state for democracy, human rights and labor during the Obama administration.

He's now a visiting scholar at Seton Hall University school of diplomacy, and he's also running to reclaim a seat in Congress in New Jersey's upcoming special election.

Kirsten Fontenrose was senior director for the Gulf on National Security Council staff during the first Trump administration.

She's now a non-resident senior fellow at the Atlantic Council.

With a welcome to you both, Kirsten, we will start with you.

From your vantage point, why does it make strategic sense for the White House to welcome MBS this week?

Why roll out this level of diplomatic engagement?

KIRSTEN FONTENROSE, The Atlantic Council: It makes a lot of sense because this visit will advance the security and economic conversations that were begun during President Trump's visit to the kingdom this past spring.

It also -- in terms of policy here and in the kingdom, any time you have a head of state visit, it forces the resolution of debates, it forces the finalization of agreements, because these visits are when large agreements are announced.

So scheduling them creates a flurry of activity that might otherwise drag out indefinitely, so real strides can be made on the portfolios that two countries are working.

It just throws everything into overdrive, so you get places more quickly.

GEOFF BENNETT: Tom Malinowski, you have argued in the past that welcoming MBS just legitimizes a leader responsible for serious human rights abuses.

Why do you believe this visit is the wrong move for the U.S.?

FMR.

REP.

TOM MALINOWSKI (D-NJ): I would never argue that we shouldn't talk to MBS.

He's the leader of Saudi Arabia.

We have to engage.

But look at the emerging deal around this visit.

It looks like MBS, the Saudi crown prince, will be getting F-35s, a defense deal, access to the most advanced American microchips, in addition to the whitewashing of his human rights record, basically his entire wish list.

And he's getting those things from Trump the president.

And in exchange, he is giving Trump the man, Trump the businessman, a set of lucrative real estate deals.

And the question I would have is, what does the United States get out of this?

I'm sure they will talk about Gaza and the things that the Saudis can and hopefully will do to rebuild Gaza.

And that's good, but I don't think it justifies the extraordinary step of a White House visit.

Saudi Arabia is not prepared to recognize Israel at this point.

There doesn't seem to be anything on the agenda about Saudi Arabia no longer purchasing Russian oil and supporting Putin's war machine in Ukraine.

And I see no prospect, at least there's no signaling of any progress on human rights in Saudi Arabia that might justify inviting the killer of Jamal Khashoggi to the White House.

So it looks like all we're getting is corruption.

And Saudi Arabia is getting pretty much everything that it wants.

And that, to me, is not in the U.S.

national interest.

GEOFF BENNETT: Kirsten, to one of the points that Tom raises, there are critics who worry that the Trump administration is conflating U.S.

interests with President Trump's business interests, and that the Trump family's financial ties in Saudi Arabia complicate this moment.

Should the American people have any reason to worry or have concerns about a conflict of interest here?

KIRSTEN FONTENROSE: I can't speak to the Trump family's own business interests, but I know that the items on the agenda are certainly not private interests.

Items like F-35 sales that create jobs in literally every single state.

There's a piece of the F-35 made in every single state, and the ability to advance-place some of our military equipment, so if we need them, we can plug and play, dropping our troops in place with an interoperable system and equipment they're already familiar with.

Things like assistance for rebuilding Gaza, assistance with supporting but monitoring Syria, assistance with Red Sea shipping security, civilian nuclear joint research that will advance the goals of both nations, those things are national interest topics, not private family interest topics.

So I think whether or not there are parallel discussions, these items on the agenda are serving national interests.

GEOFF BENNETT: And for these types of visits, as you both know, success is often measured in terms of deliverables.

So, Tom, from your perspective, are these the kinds of deliverables, defense cooperation, tech transfer, nuclear cooperation, that the U.S.

should be offering to Saudi Arabia right now?

FMR.

REP.

TOM MALINOWSKI: These are deliverables for Saudi Arabia.

These are related to Saudi Arabia's national interest, not so much to ours.

In fact, there are a lot of folks, even in the current administration's national security apparatus, who are very worried about tech transfer from Saudi Arabia to China.

This is one reason F-35s have been held up in the past.

And for the same reasons, I think it is a terrible idea to be giving Saudi Arabia access to the most advanced American microchips.

So the deliverables are all on their side.

And the discussions about the Trump family's business interest are what led up to this visit.

And it's not just a conflict of interest.

It is a complete defiance of the Constitution of the United States, which says that presidents are not allowed to receive emoluments, which means fees, salaries, profits, from foreign governments.

In fact, the Constitution, in its antiquated, but actually quite relevant to the current-day language, specifies you're not supposed to receive those things from foreign princes.

And here we are in the 21st century a president essentially laughing at the explicit language of the Constitution.

And I think that colors everything about this visit.

GEOFF BENNETT: Shifting our focus back to MBS, Kirsten, there are those who argue that MBS is more repressive at home than any Saudi leader in modern history.

What makes you confident that a White House visit won't just embolden him?

KIRSTEN FONTENROSE: Every U.S.

administration - - Trump did in the first administration, certainly Obama, Biden, Trump again - - we always raise our human rights concerns with heads of state, Saudi or otherwise, but we do it privately.

We do it behind the scenes because airing dirty laundry is never the way to soften up a potentially oppressive leader to change that tune.

And speaking very, frankly, realpolitik, we don't have levers to change his domestic policy.

We can press on these issues.

But there are many other files where we have asks of Saudi Arabia, many other places where we have national security interests, like on Iran, or where Americans have interests, like on Gaza or Israel, or where the U.S.

economy has interests, like Saudi direct investment into our private sector.

So we can make these asks, but if they are considered the number one ask, then we put at risk our ability to achieve the others.

GEOFF BENNETT: Kirsten Fontenrose, Tom Malinowski, our thanks to you both.

FMR.

REP.

TOM MALINOWSKI: Thank you.

AMNA NAWAZ: The Trump administration has announced a sweeping overhaul of how it will reallocate funds for housing and the homeless, triggering concerns that it could lead to more people living on the street.

The changes involve $3.9 billion in funds previously used to place people in permanent housing.

That money will now be shifted to transitional programs with work requirements and for mandatory treatment for addiction or mental illness.

For more on what's at stake and the potential impact, I'm joined by Jennifer Ludden of NPR.

Good to see you.

JENNIFER LUDDEN, NPR: Hi there.

AMNA NAWAZ: Thanks for being here.

Let's just start with how big a shift this is from the previous policy and approach and what's the reasoning behind the change?

JENNIFER LUDDEN: It's an enormous shift.

This is the main source of homelessness funding.

It's used by local programs across - - thousands of them all across the country.

And the reason is, the Trump administration has a very different philosophy for how best to tackle homelessness and really what is the root cause, as they put it, of homelessness.

They're very clear in their ideas that mental illness and addiction are the root causes.

You see this especially with the rise of street homelessness.

Encampments are in so many cities now.

And they say that this is a way to address that and help promote self-sufficiency.

And it's a major change from what has been for many years.

AMNA NAWAZ: So give us a sense of who would be impacted here.

How many people are we talking about?

Where are they in the country?

And who do you have to be to qualify for these funds in the first place?

JENNIFER LUDDEN: So it's really focused -- the change really focuses a lot on chronically homeless people, people who have been chronically homeless and are now in permanent housing, what's called permanent supportive housing, because it's people who are offered supports for their mental health or addiction or finding a job, but it's voluntary.

And this is what the Trump administration wants to make mandatory.

And to be in these permanent housing situations, you have to have been chronically homeless and also have some kind of disabling condition.

There's a lot of seniors.

And that is who homeless advocates are fearful that might lose their current housing.

And in some cases, they have been there for years.

AMNA NAWAZ: Yes.

So how real or reasonable is it to try to impose a work requirement if many of these recipients are disabled in some way or elderly?

JENNIFER LUDDEN: So the people who work to house them say it's really unrealistic, that you are talking about those with the greatest need.

I mean, to be clear, plenty of homeless -- people enter homelessness and leave it on their own, right?

We are talking about people who've been without housing for a longer period of time, they have more complicating conditions, and it is harder, a harder lift for them.

And the other thing that advocates point out is like, OK, the administration wants to put them into temporary housing situations up to maybe two years.

And then the housing market itself is incredibly unaffordable.

Even for middle-income people with full-time jobs, it can be hard to afford rent.

So to expect that for this population could be unrealistic.

AMNA NAWAZ: So I have seen some estimates that say we're talking about maybe 170,000 people or up to 170,000.

Give us a sense of how quickly this could have an impact, and would this impact that many people right away?

JENNIFER LUDDEN: I mean, we don't know how many.

That's the number that advocates say is at risk.

AMNA NAWAZ: OK.

JENNIFER LUDDEN: But it could happen fast.

I mean, this -- people will start having to apply for this funding in January.

And there are groups around the country who are already going to start running out of their current funding starting in January.

And there's actually a gap here, because this was a late notice.

It's kind of behind schedule.

Some places might lose the funding they have before they even get this, if they are going to get this funding.

But the administration has been clear that a lot of places won't get their funding renewed.

They want to widen the number of places that are helping homeless people.

They want to get new faces at the table.

And so it's a big question mark that what is going to happen to people who are now in housing and may lose it?

AMNA NAWAZ: I'm sure you have seen in your reporting there are a lot of people who argue there should be work requirements in place for people to receive these kinds of federal funds.

If you have an addiction or you have a mental illness, you should be required to get some kind of treatment for that to receive federal funds.

What's the response to that you hear?

JENNIFER LUDDEN: So researchers and homelessness advocates say that the U.S.

tried requiring mandating treatment for many, many, many years starting in the '80s up until early '90s or early 2000s and it didn't work.

People didn't do it.

They say forcing treatment on someone just backfires.

They need to want that.

And also they say that, look, the whole point of spending this money is to address homelessness and to get people off the street.

Permanent housing ends homelessness.

If you're focused more on their treatment, that's a different thing.

That's Medicaid.

That's health care.

If the goal here is to end homelessness, permanent housing does that.

And there is a lot of evidence over years that this model of getting people in the housing first and letting them choose treatment does succeed in keeping most people off the streets long term.

AMNA NAWAZ: A lot more to cover on this.

We hope you will come back and update us as we learn more.

Jennifer Ludden of NPR, thank you so much.

JENNIFER LUDDEN: Thank you.

GEOFF BENNETT: The U.N.

says 1.4 million Haitians, more than 10 percent of the country, have fled their homes because of violence and instability.

Many have crossed the border to neighboring Dominican Republic, but, there, they live in fear and limbo; 200,000 have even been deported back to Haiti.

As part of our ongoing series on border security around the world, fellows from British Columbia University's Global Reporting Program visited the island and have this report, as told by our Ali Rogin.

ALI ROGIN: These cattle cars have been modified to hold dozens of migrants at a time.

The Dominican Republic has ordered up trucks like this to roam the streets of towns and the countryside, filling up every day with Haitian migrants.

In one of them, we met a young man named Calerb, who told us he came to the Dominican Republic to work construction.

CALERB, Haitian Migrant (through translator): It's wrong.

It's wrong.

All this time that we have been here, we have been going through misery, working for nothing, working for a house to live in.

How is it that I'm in jail without an arrest warrant, without having done anything?

ALI ROGIN: This sweep in the Dominican Republic is part of our response to escalating gang violence and economic instability across the border in Haiti, which has escalated steadily since the assassination of Haiti's president in 2021.

Last September, at a U.N.

address, Dominican President Luis Abinader pledged that his country would not fall victim to the pressures from the crisis in Haiti.

LUIS ABINADER, President of the Dominican Republic (through translator): The instability in our neighboring country has put significant pressure on our own security.

ALI ROGIN: President Abinader fortified and expanded a border wall and pledged to round up 10,000 Haitians every week to secure his country from undocumented migrants.

The border town of Dajabon has been the epicenter of the deportation efforts.

The town's market is one of the only places Haitians are allowed to enter legally to buy and sell products.

But they must leave the same day over this heavily monitored bridge.

Armed Dominican border police stand guard, and there have been several incidents of violence against Haitians at this market.

SANTIAGO RIVERON, Mayor of Dajabon, Dominican Republic (through translator): It is a security issue.

In Haiti, there are gang members.

There are people who maintain anarchy in that country.

ALI ROGIN: Farmer Santiago Riveron is the mayor of Dajabon and has been aggressive in his stance against undocumented Haitians, even taking to the streets to violently round up sleeping migrants on his own.

But while the volume of deportations back to Haiti may have skyrocketed, the border remains porous.

Many migrants are known to cross back into the Dominican Republic across this river, and it's an open secret that a bribe can secure passage.

MAN (through translator): It's all about money.

If you have the money, they let you go.

If you don't have money, you stay.

To go back, you pay a little something.

You pay an immigration chief.

The chief always puts someone else to do that for him.

SANTIAGO RIVERON (through translator): It has become a big business, especially for some military.

I cannot say that all the military are corrupted, but there are many corrupt military who receive bribes so that the border can be crossed.

ALI ROGIN: The day after the Global Reporting Program team met that young Haitian construction worker, Calerb in the migration truck, they went to his home to speak with his family, only to find Calerb himself back at home with his wife and baby, whose identities he asked us to conceal.

How did you get back from Haiti to the Dominican Republic?

CALERB (through translator): I always pass through a waterway or go through the end of the wall, where the wall does not reach to cross through the woods.

If I could survive in Haiti, I would stay, because here we are not living.

Because we are not living, we are surviving.

There is no life for Haitians.

ALI ROGIN: He says he's lost track of how many times he has been captured, deported and returned.

BRIDGET WOODING, Caribbean Migration and Development Observatory: The army, the police, anybody in a uniform, the watchman down the road is beginning to be involved in ways which lead to extortion, corruption, and to creating of chaos.

ALI ROGIN: Human rights activists like Bridget Wooding have condemned Dominican treatment of Haitians.

Amnesty International calls it de facto racist migration policies, in violation of the country's international human rights obligations.

BRIDGET WOODING: This particular anti-Black, this particularly anti-Haitian sentiment that the authorities have attempted to whip up, there's not a rational way in which migration is being addressed.

And, on the contrary, it's being used as a scapegoat for a lot of ills.

SANTIAGO RIVERON (through translator): It is said that we are racists.

That is not true because the majority of Dominicans have Black skin.

So how can there be racism?

The issue that we have with our neighbors is their lack of culture.

We would like them to learn from us.

They should be the same thing that we do.

ALI ROGIN: But even many educated, professional Haitians with legal right to study or work in the Dominican Republic have reported being arbitrarily detained.

Louis Jherry Wood, a Haitian studying to be a pilot in the Dominican capital, Santo Domingo was grabbed right off the street.

LOUIS JHERRY WOOD, Haiti Flight Student: I was going to the market to buy something.

And, by surprise, I encounter with this truck.

One of them hit me, telling me to shut up.

So I showed him about the visa.

I showed him the passport.

And they told me that that doesn't matter, and they took me in custody and put me in this truck.

I really feel that I was discriminated, like, because I was Black and, worse, because I was Haitian.

ALI ROGIN: Louis was taken to this former recreational center converted into a detention facility to meet the demands of the country's migrants' needs.

Outside the center, families waited for loved ones who had been detained.

LOUIS JHERRY WOOD: I spent like one night, one day without eating anything, without drinking water.

I was really traumatized, because it was the first time for me to have been treated this way, because, even in Haiti, there was a situation of violence, I didn't really see this stuff.

ALI ROGIN: To date, Louis has been picked up four times and he lives in constant fear of being detained again.

And he's one of the most connected Haitian migrants in the country, having been sponsored by Alexis Victoria Yeb, a prominent senator in President Abinader's ruling party.

ALEXIS VICTORIA YEB, Dominican Republic Senator (through translator): I learned about Louis' desire to become a pilot.

It captivated me, his story, his dedication, his desire to achieve his dream.

I got him a work permit, a study permit, and he is here legally with all the documents.

ALI ROGIN: And while Senator Yeb says the Dominican Republic is reliant on cheap Haitian labor, particularly in agriculture and manufacturing, there's a larger national security concern.

ALEXIS VICTORIA YEB (through translator): We need Haitian labor if they are regulated, if they have identification.

We get them the work residence here.

The thing is that Haiti is completely devastated, where they don't have controls over their citizens.

Haiti is controlled by a terrorist gang, so we have to control our country.

CALERB (through translator): This is my dream.

It's my dream that one day I can see Haiti working, and we would cross the border to return to our country.

I have a child who's only 2 months old.

I'd like to see his future.

I'd like to see him grow up.

I would not like to pass the misery that I'm going through now.

ALI ROGIN: For the "PBS News Hour," I'm Ali Rogin.

AMNA NAWAZ: It's gearing up to be a busy week on Capitol Hill after President Trump's U-turn on the Epstein files.

To discuss that and more, we turn now to our Politics Monday duo.

That is Amy Walter of The Cook Political Report With Amy Walter and Tamara Keith of NPR, who joins us tonight from Salt Lake City.

It's good to see you both.

AMY WALTER, The Cook Political Report: Hello.

AMNA NAWAZ: So, Tam, I'm going to start with you because, as you heard Lisa report earlier, the House is expected now to vote on the release of those Epstein files tomorrow.

You saw what the president posted online when he had his reversal, at least rhetorically, on the release of those files.

He said: "House Republicans should vote to release the Epstein files because we have nothing to hide.

It's time to move on from this Democratic hoax.

I don't care.

All I do care about is that Republicans get back on point."

So, Tam, what should we know about why that reversal?

TAMARA KEITH, National Public Radio: Well, initially, he was sort of holding his hand up, trying to tell a moving freight train to slow down and stop.

Eventually, he realized that this was going to pass and it was going to get a lot of Republican votes.

And it would show a fissure between himself and members of his party in Congress, something he really doesn't want.

So he got out of the way.

And now instead of this being a vote that shows weakness, he can spin it as a vote that shows that the House is just going along with what he wants.

But, clearly, for weeks and weeks and weeks and weeks, he made it quite clear he didn't want this vote to happen.

Now he's even saying that he'd sign a bill if it gets to him.

Of course, it has to go through the Senate.

And his public posture may be different than his private posture there.

AMNA NAWAZ: Amy, we saw him try to pressure some Republicans to not support this release.

What does this say to you about his influence over lawmakers?

AMY WALTER: Yes, it's been really interesting these last couple of weeks, right?

We have seen some Republican pushback in ways we haven't seen for the entirety of his second term.

We're watching in Indiana and in Kansas state legislators there actively push back on pressure from the White House to redistrict those states, including trips from the vice president and the president calling in and asking for those members to be primaried.

We're seeing the president himself go in and rescind some of the tariffs that he had put on some food goods, coffee being one of them.

Obviously, tariffs a big issue for voters, voters across the board saying that tariffs have impacted them negatively on the economy.

So he's not admitting that these tariffs were a bad idea, but taking them off to certainly suggest that he's feeling that heat.

And now, on this issue where, as Tam says, it was pretty clear that -- where the trip was going and so he got onto the right train.

AMNA NAWAZ: To get ahead of it, so it could line up with where his House Republican members were.

I want to talk about affordability in a moment, but, Tam, I do need to ask you about what Lisa was reporting about Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene in particular, because it's so fascinating to see this relationship.

She went from staunch supporter to now publicly disagreeing with him on this, being called a traitor by President Trump.

How do you look at that rift?

And also I should just note for our viewers' awareness, we'd invited the congresswoman on the show.

She'd accepted our invitation and then her team ended up canceling.

I should note the invitation stands.

She's welcome any time.

But how do you look at that, Tam?

TAMARA KEITH: Yes, I think this rift is much bigger than just the Epstein files.

She is someone who is -- who says that she still supports the president very much, but that she is channeling the voice of his voters and of his base.

She is definitely coming from a populist perspective.

And so it's not just about the Epstein files, though that is certainly something that she crossed him on.

But she's also criticized him meeting with so many foreign leaders.

As we know, he has another meeting with a Saudi leader tomorrow.

He met with a Syrian leader last week, which was quite something.

And she's saying, hey, you need to focus on the U.S., focus on domestic politics, focus on America first, which is what you ran on.

And to get to the affordability point, she was on "The Sean Spicer Show" last week and said something pretty remarkable.

The president's message is that costs are down and that affordability is something that is just being weaponized against him by the Democrats.

And she came out and said, basically, Mr.

President, don't gaslight your voters.

They are going to the grocery store.

They are buying clothes for their kids.

They're paying energy bills.

They know that things are more expensive.

AMNA NAWAZ: Amy, she has disagreed with the president on cost of living, on foreign policy, on the health care subsidies.

Does she represent something new in the MAGA movement?

AMY WALTER: I don't know.

I mean, she also has created a lot of rifts with other members of the Republican Conference.

She was kicked out of the House Conservative Caucus, the Freedom Caucus.

She has a beef with many other members within the Republican Party.

She is somebody that has liked to and has attracted a lot of the spotlight.

But I do think it says something about the fact that the real pushback, the first real pushback we're seeing from members of Congress -- and, let's be clear, had Trump not said he supported, this bill was still likely to pass -- that the first real pushback is not on tariffs.

It's not on the fact that there have been the military targeting drug boats in the Caribbean.

It's not on redistricting at the congressional level.

It is the Epstein files.

And I do think it speaks to and what Marjorie Taylor Greene seems to be speaking to is this bigger, broader populist message, which is the idea that unites the Republican base, or at least the MAGA base, is that there is a system that rewards certain people in the establishment, covers stuff up for them, and that we want to be the people that expose that.

And that is quite telling about the thing that really breaks the MAGA from Trump.

AMNA NAWAZ: Meanwhile, Tam, on that affordability issue, we have seen a shift from the White House, from the president, at least an attempt to shift the narrative a little bit and to change some of their language.

We've seen the president try to take some steps on lowering prescription drug costs, on rolling back some tariffs, as Amy noted, on key items.

What do you know about what's driving that shift and how they're explaining it?

TAMARA KEITH: Yes, those tariff rollbacks are pretty stunning, given how much of President Trump's second-term policy agenda has been built around tariffs and about denying that they make things more expensive for American consumers.

But now they're saying, well, mission accomplished, and we can make coffee cheaper again.

I spoke with a White House official, a senior White House official, who said that they realized that the president focused a bit too much on foreign policy and that he does need to get out there with an affordability message and that he needs to say that there's more work to do.

And, in fact, just moments ago, he was -- I think he probably is still speaking.

He was speaking at this McDonald's convention.

And he said a lot of these lines that I heard from the senior administration officials, saying, I will not rest until we make America affordable again, more or less, and also saying that there's more work to do.

That's new, because previously the president had mostly just been spiking the football and saying everything was great and we're in a golden age because he's president.

AMNA NAWAZ: Amy, do voters care if he contradicts himself or do they only care that he brings prices down?

(CROSSTALK) AMY WALTER: They want him to bring prices down.

I mean, this is where the Biden administration found themselves during that '21 and '22 era, which was everything's fine.

I don't see why people are complaining about inflation.

It's really not bad.

What you see with your own eyes isn't true.

The economy is getting better.

Look at what we're doing.

So I think what voters are prioritizing, what does it mean for me?

I'm not really interested in the way that you would like to unveil your own agenda or you have a theory of the case.

How is it impacting me?

The other thing that the president is trying to do and is not really working is to blame Biden for where we are.

Overwhelmingly, voters see that this is indeed Trump's economy.

So the fact that, look, the year out from the next election, the fact that he is addressing this issue is an important factor, especially if you're a Republican up in 2026.

You want to see the president doing this a lot more.

AMNA NAWAZ: Amy Walter, great to have you here.

Tamara Keith, safe travels to you.

Good to have you both.

Thanks so much.

AMY WALTER: Thank you.

TAMARA KEITH: Thank you.

AMNA NAWAZ: And that is the "News Hour" for tonight.

I'm Amna Nawaz.

GEOFF BENNETT: And I'm Geoff Bennett.

For all of us here at the "PBS News Hour," thanks for spending part of your evening with us.