>> BRAUDE: TONIGHT ON "GREATER BOSTON," TWO MEN, BOTH SENTENCED BOSTON," TWO MEN, BOTH SENTENCED TO LIFE IN PRISON AS TEENS BEFORE ULTIMATELY BEING RELEASED, JOIN ME ON HOW THEY'VE DEDICATED THEIR LIVES SINCE TO HELPING PEOPLE LIKE THEM, ONCE RELEASED, AND BRINGING TOGETHER THOSE WHO'VE COMMITTED CRIMES WITH THOSE VICTIMIZED BY THEM.

ARMAND COLEMAN AND SEAN ELLIS, WHOSE STORY WAS TOLD IN THE NETFLIX DOCUMENTARY "TRIAL 4," SHARE THEIR STORIES AHEAD.

THEN, DO THE DEMOCRATS HAVE A MESSAGING PROBLEM?

LESS THAN A WEEK BEFORE FINAL MIDTERM BALLOTS ARE CAST, SOME ARE WONDERING WHETHER THE PARTY MAY HAVE HAD TOO MANY DIFFERENT ELECTION PRIORITIES AND NOT ENOUGH FOCUS ON WHAT MOST AMERICANS RATE AS THEIR NUMBER ONE PRIORITY, THE ECONOMY.

♪♪ >> BRAUDE: ARMAND COLEMAN WAS JUST 17 YEARS OLD WHEN HE SHOT A FELLOW TEEN AT A ROXBURY CLUB, WAS TRIED AS AN ADULT AND SENTENCED TO LIFE IN PRISON FOR SECOND-DEGREE MURDER.

HE ULTIMATELY SERVED 28 YEARS, OPENLY REPENTING FOR HIS CRIME, AND FOCUSING ON HEALING AND RESTORATIVE JUSTICE, BOTH FOR THOSE CONVICTED, AND VICTIMS OF CRIMES.

AND THEN, IN 2019, HE WAS RELEASED, FOLLOWING A SUPREME COURT RULING THAT DECLARED IT UNCONSTITUTIONAL TO SENTENCE A MINOR TO LIFE IN PRISON.

SEAN ELLIS WAS 19 WHEN HE WAS ARRESTED FOR THE MURDER OF POLICE DETECTIVE JOHN MULLIGAN.

HIS FIRST TWO TRIALS ENDED IN HUNG JURIES, BUT HE WAS CONVICTED IN A THIRD.

THEN, YEARS LATER, BOSTON POLICE DETECTIVES WHO WERE INTEGRAL TO THAT CONVICTION PLED GUILTY TO CORRUPTION CHARGES, CASTING DOUBT ON THEIR TESTIMONY.

IN 2015, ELLIS'S MURDER CONVICTION WAS OVERTURNED AND AFTER MORE THAN TWO DECADES IN PRISON, HE WAS RELEASED.

HE WENT ON TO CO-FOUND THE EXONOREE NETWORK AND NOW SERVES AS ITS DIRECTOR.

SEAN ELLIS JOINS ME, ALONG WITH ARMAND COLEMAN, NOW EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE TRANSFORMATIONAL PRISON PROJECT.

>> Braude: ARMAND AND SEAN, GREAT TO SEE YOU BOTH.

>> GREAT TO SEE YOU.

>> Braude: WHEN DID YOU GUYS FIRST MEET?

>> WHAT YEAR WAS THAT?

2013.

>> Braude: WHERE WAS THAT?

>> MCI NORFOLK.

>> Braude: YOU STARTED WORKING ON PRISONERS' RIGHTS AND RESTORATIVE JUSTICE.

TELL ME ABOUT THAT.

>> I WAS 20 YEARS IN MY INCARCERATION AS A YOUTH, I SPENT THE MAJORITY OF MY TIME THERE, AND THEN I WAS TRANSFERRED TO NORFOLK.

SEAN WAS ONE OF THE HANDFUL OF MEN THAT HELD MY HAND AND HELPED ME TRANSITION INTO THAT INSTITUTION.

>> Braude: WHAT DID YOU GUYS DO TOGETHER?

YOU STARTED WORKING ON PLANS FOR CELLMATES AND RESTORATIVE JUSTICE.

>> SEAN WAS ELECTED OFFICIAL WITHIN THE PRISON, AND HE HAD AN OFFICE SPACE, AND HE ALLOWED TO COME TO THE OFFICE SPACE, SPEAK WITH THE TEAM, AND PROCESS STUFF ON A NIGHTLY BASIS.

>> Braude: SO WHAT WERE YOU WORKING ON?

WHAT WERE THE KIND OF PROJECTS AND SOME OTHERS DID TOGETHER?

>> SOME OF THE THINGS I DID AS AN ELECTED OFFICIAL AT NORFOLK IS WORK ON PRICE PRISONERS' RIGHTS, WHETHER IT WAS FOOD OR THE AVERAGE CONDITIONS.

I DEALT WITH THAT, AND THEN WE ALSO DEALT WITH, YOU KNOW, COMING UP WITH RESTORATIVE JUSTICE, SORT OF CIRCLES -- ACTUALLY, A MINOR AND I CO-FAS CO-FACILITATED IT.

>> Braude: IT IS JERICHO CIRCLE?

>> IT IS NOT NECESSARILY JERICHO CIRCLE, BUT IT IS WHERE I DID MY WORK.

>> RESTORATIVE JUSTICES ADDRESSES HARM ON BOTH SIDES.

>> Braude: DO YOU PUT YOURSELF AT RISK WHEN YOU'RE DOING THOSE KINDS OF THINGS -- YOU'RE BOTH SMILING?

>> YOU'RE DEFINITELY ON THE INSIDE.

ON TWO DIFFERENT ANGLES.

ONE IS FROM THE ADMINISTRATION, SOME OF THE WORK ARMAND AND I DID ON THE INSIDE, IT WAS NECESSARY.

WE KIND OF SQUASHED GANG BEEF ON THE INSIDE, AND KIND OF HELPED TO MENTOR AND MONITOR SOME OF YOUR YOUNGER PRISONERS FROM, LIKE, INTO PROGRAMMING.

AND THAT WAS SOME OF THE THINGS WE DID.

>> Braude: BUT AT RISK.

YOU COULD BE DISCIPLINED FOR DOING THESE KIND OF CONSTRUCTIVE THINGS BY OFFICIALS?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

>> Braude: YOUR FELLOW INMATES ELECTED YOU AS A REPRESENTATIVE OF THEM?

>> YES.

>> Braude: MY GOSH.

LET ME TALK ABOUT WHAT YOU FACED.

WHAT WAS HARDEST FOR YOU WHEN YOU GOT OUT -- 28 YEARS, RIGHT?

>> THE HARDEST THING WHEN I GOT OUT IS STILL THE HARDEST THING TODAY, BUILD THE COMMUNITY.

I WAS BORN AND RAISED IN NEW YORK.

I'VE BEEN IN PRISON MY WHOLE LIFE.

I NEVER HAD A DRIVER'S LICENSE, ADULT EXPERIENCES, NONE OF THAT.

AND ALL OF THE ADULTS I KNOW ARE FORMERLY INCARCERATED PEOPLE WHO HELPED SAVE MY LIFE AND I'M FORBIDDEN TO INTERACT WITH THEM.

SO THAT HAS BEEN THE HARDEST THING, BUILDING A COMMUNITY AND MOVING FORWARD.

ANOTHER WORD FOR THAT IS LONELINESS, I GUESS.

YOU BUILT A FAMILY, AND THE MAJORITY OF YOUR LIFE HAS BEEN SPENT WITH FAMILY MEMBERS BEHIND BARS, AND THAT WAS YOUR RELATIONSHIPS.

AND WHAT WE SAY, WHICH WE DON'T THINK ENOUGH ABOUT, WHEN YOU TRY TO BUILD A NETWORK, YOU'RE PRECLUDED FROM EVEN ASSOCIATING WITH PEOPLE WHO COULD PROVIDE YOU SUPPORT.

HOW HARD IS THAT?

>> THAT'S HARD.

I REMEMBER WHEN I WAS INTERVIEWED FOR MY RELEASE, I ASKED ONE OF THE GUYS WHO WAS ONE OF THE BIGGEST CHALLENGES YOU HAD, AND HE SAID LONELINESS.

AND I SAID, DUDE, YOU'RE OUT, WHAT DO YOU MEAN?

>> AND HE SAID LONELINESS.

>> Braude: WHAT WERE THE MAJOR OBSTACLES YOU WEREN'T READY FOR WHEN YOU GOT OUT?

>> THERE ARE DIFFERENT KINDS, BUT ESTABLISHING HABITS AND CERTAIN RELATIONSHIPS.

BEING ABLE TO PROCESS THINGS EMOTIONALLY, WHICH I DIDN'T HAVE TO DO WHEN I WAS IN THERE.

JUST WORK AND TRYING TO FIND WORK.

TRYING TO PROCESS -- NOT PROCESS, BUT BALANCE A CHECKBOOK.

>> Braude: YOU TOLD ME YOU DIDN'T KNOW HOW TO TURN ON A LAPTOP?

>> I DIDN'T.

>> Braude: SOMEBODY HAD TO SHOW YOU HOW TO TURN ON THE COMPUTER, FORGET ABOUT HOW TO USE IT.

>> TURN ON THE COMPUTER, TURN ON THE PHONE.

ONE OF THE FIRST THINGS THAT HAPPENED, MY BABY SISTER GAVE ME A PHONE AND THE SCREEN WAS BLACK AND THERE WERE NO BUTTONS.

WHAT DO I DO WITH THIS?

>> Braude: IN THE HOUSING AND ALL OF THE KEY THINGS THAT ALLOW PEOPLE TO LIVE A REGULAR LIFE -- TRANSFORMATIONAL PRISON PROCESS, EXPLAIN THAT?

>> TRANSFORMATIONAL PRISON PROCESS LITERALLY BEGAN IN THE BASEMENT.

>> Braude: WITHOUT AN ELECTRICED OFFICIAL?

>> EXACTLY.

IT WAS FORMULATED FOR ALL KINDS OF CRIMES, AND WE DELIVERED PROGRAM SERVICES TO ALL INSIDE.

AND WE EXTENDED IT TO FEMALE.

AND NOW WE DELIVERY ENTRY TO FORMERLY INS CARS INCARCERATED PEOPLE.

WE WORK TO BUILD COMMUNITY.

I KNOW WHAT I SUFFERED FROM AND WHAT I DEALT WITH, SO WE ACTUALLY USE OURSELVES AS MODELS TO DELIVER SERVICES THAT ARE NEEDED.

>> Braude: A STORY THAT INCLUDED YOU IN "THE BOSTON GLOBE," I WANT TO READ A QUOTE FROM YOU TO YOU, AND I WANT YOU TO EXPLAIN IT TO ME, ARMAND.

"I THOUGHT I DID IT BECAUSE I WAS A BAD DUDE.

ME RECOGNIZING MYSELF AS A VICTIM FIRST ALLOWED ME TO ACKNOWLEDGE THE PEOPLE THAT I VICTIMIZED."

WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

>> I'VE GOT TO CREDIT MY DIRECTOR OF PROGRAMS FOR THIS NOBLE.

HE SAYS HUNDREDS OF CRIMES WERE COMMITTED AGAINST ME BEFORE I COMMITTED ONE CRIME.

ANY CRIMES THAT I COMMITTED THAT LANDED ME IN PRISON, I WAS ABLE TO FIND OUT WHAT WAS THE THING THAT LED TO THE THING THAT LED TO ME COMMITTING THE CRIME.

>> Braude: YOU'RE NOT SAYING YOU'RE NOT RESPONSIBLE -- >> DEFINITELY NOT.

>> Braude: YOU'RE JUST SAYING SOME PEOPLE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THE TRAUMA YOU WENT THROUGH.

>> EXACTLY.

>> Braude: EXPLAIN WHAT YOU'RE DOING AT EXONOREE NETWORK.

>> WE PROVIDE PRACTICAL, SPIRITUAL AND EMOTIONAL SUPPORT FOR EXONEREES COMING HOME.

WHEN WE CAME HOME, WE CAME HOME TO NOTHING.

AND THERE WAS NOBODY KIND OF THERE, EXCEPT FOR OUR LOVED ONES, TO GIVE US SUPPORT.

SO WE CAME TOGETHER AND STARTED TALKING.

AND WE STARTED FIGURING OUT WHAT ARE THE THINGS WE HAVE TO IN ORDER TO MAKE SURE OUR TRANSITION WAS PRETTY SMOOTH.

>> Braude: LIKE WHAT?

DO YOU HELP PEOPLE IF SOMEONE DOESN'T HAVE HOUSING?

IF THEY JUST NEED TO TALK TO SOMEBODY?

ARE THOSE THE KINDS OF THINGS?

>> TO BE SPECIFIC, WE HELP WITH SUPPORT, WE HELP WITH MENTAL HEALTH SUPPORT.

WE HELP WITH TECH TRAINING FOR LAPTOPS AND PHONES.

>> Braude: DOES THE AVERAGE PERSON GIVE A DAMN WHAT HAPPENS TO MEN AND WOMEN WHO HAVE BEEN IN PRISON?

DO YOU FIND, IN THE WORLD AT LARGE, THAT PEOPLE CARE?

I MEAN, DO -- YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN?

>> I THINK THEY CARE ONCE THEY UNDERSTAND.

>> Braude: WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

>> MEANING IF YOU SANT IN THE SPACE WITH THE TRANSFORMATIONAL PRISON PROJECT, WE WOULD LITERALLY SPEAK TO WHAT HE IS GOING THROUGH AND WHAT I'M GOING THROUGH, AND YOU WOULD BE ABLE TO RELATE.

I ACTUALLY DID A PROGRAM RECENTLY WITH GUYS WHO WERE VETERANS.

HE WAS TALKING ABOUT HIS TRANSITION FROM WAR TO CIVILIAN LIFE, AND WE WERE ABLE TO CONNECT ON THAT.

LITERALLY THEY'RE OUR PARTNERS, RIGHT?

THEY'RE OUR ALLIES, AND THEY SEE HOW WE HAVE MORE IN COMMON THAN WE DON'T.

BRAWRMD WHEN YOU>> Braude: WHEN YOU SAY TO MOSTLY MEN, AND SOME WOMEN, WHO COMMITTED SOME HORRIBLE CRIMES, THAT WE DO HAVE TO REACH OUT TO THE PEOPLE YOU VICTIMIZED, IS THERE WILLINGNESS TO DO THAT OR DOES IT REQUIRE A LOT OF PERSUADING?

>> THERE IS NO WILLINGNESS.

BUT WE HAD A METHOD.

SEAN WAS ONE OF THE PEOPLE WHO STARTED DOING THE RESTORATIVE JUSTICE IN NORFOLK.

WE HAD TO START WITH THE MOST IN IN CORAGIBLE ONES.

WE HAD TO FIRST ACKNOWLEDGE WHAT HAPPENED TO THEM FIRST.

ONCE I KNOW WHAT HAPPENED TO YOU FIRST, THEN YOU CAN OWN WHAT YOU DID AND START TO SHOW EMPATHY AND ACCOUNTABILITY FOR WHAT YOU DID.

>> Braude: IT SEEMS TO ME -- ARMAND SAYS PEOPLE WHEN THEY LEARN, ULTIMATELY THEY DO CARE, I DON'T CARE IF THEY CARE BECAUSE YOU'RE HUMAN BEINGS OR THEY CARE BECAUSE THEY WANT YOU TO STAY CLEAN AND LIVE A DECENT LIFE OUTSIDE, WHICH IS GOOD FOR THEM AS WELL, IT SEEMS TO ME THIS WORK WAS UNBELIEVABLY IMPORTANT.

LAST TIME YOU WERE HERE, YOU RECEIVED A $250,000 GRANT FROM THE STATE.

HOW IS FUNDING WITH THE EXONOREE NETWORK?

>> FUNDING IS A WORK IN PROGRESS.

WE'RE -- WE'RE STILL GROWING AND STILL SEEKING FUNDING.

AND SO THAT'S, LIKE, THE BEST WAY FOR ME TO EXPLAIN IT.

THERE IS A LOT OF WORK TO DO, JIM.

WHAT I MEAN WHEN I SAY THAT IS IN TERMS OF DEVELOPING THE PROGRAMS THAT NEED TO BE DEVELOPED THAT WE KNOW WORK.

BECAUSE WE ARE THE MODEL AND THE EXPERTS IN IT.

BECAUSE NOT ONLY WERE WE IN PRISON, BUT WE WENT THROUGH THE PROCESS -- I DON'T WANT TO SAY THE PROGRAMS THEMSELVES, BUT DEVELOPING THE PROGRAMS -- >> Braude: AND YOU CAN SHOW RESULTS?

>> AND WE CAN SHOW RESULTS.

>> Braude: WHERE IS YOUR MONEY GOING TO?

I DON'T MEAN TO DICTATE YOUR MONEY, BUT WHERE IS IT GOING, INDIVIDUALS?

FOUNDATIONS?

>> INDIVIDUALS, FOUNDATIONS.

I HAD TO LEARN THAT FUNDING IS 5% OF MY JOB TITLE AT THE MOMENT.

>> Braude: AND WE'RE GOING TO GIVE WEBSITES IN A MINUTE, IF YOU WANT TO LEARN MORE OR VOLUNTEER.

ONE OF THE THINGS I'M AMAZED BY, THE MORE I GET TO KNOW YOU AND KNOW ARMAND, I'M AMAZED AT HOW THERE IS THIS RELENTLESS PASSION TO GIVE BACK, EVEN TO PEOPLE TO SO MUCH HAS BEEN TAKEN AWAY.

YOU'RE NOT THE EXCEPTIONS TO THE RULE.

THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE LIKE YOU?

>> DEFINITELY.

EVEN FROM THE STANDPOINT OF GUYS STILL INSIDE THE PRISON, DEVELOPING PROGRAMS AND MODELS, THEY'RE STILL IN PRISON DOING THAT.

THE THING ABOUT ARMAND AND I AND OTHERS THAT ARE, LIKE, SIMILAR CHARACTER IS WE'RE UNDERSTAND THAT IT FIRST STARTS WITH US.

ONCE IT STARTS WITH US, WE KIND OF GROW IT OUT AND TRY TO AFFECT THE CULTURE.

>> Braude: BEFORE YOU GO, THERE IS A RUMOR WHEN YOU WERE IN PRISON YOU USED TO LISTEN TO THE RADIO?

IS THAT TRUE?

>> WHAT?

>> Braude: WHAT KIND OF SHOWS?

>> I SPENT A LOT OF TIME IN MASS SECURITY, A LOT OF ISOLATION, OVER THE DECADE, AND I SPENT LISTENING TO MARGERY EAGAN ON 96.90.

I LISTENED TO YOU ALL EVERY SINGLE DAY, AND SOMETIMES TWICE A DAY BECAUSE THEY DO REBROADCASTS.

THAT'S WHERE I LEARNED A LOT OF MY STUFF AROUND POLITICS -- >> Braude: I LEARNED A LOT FROM YOU, AND YOU, TOO, SEAN, ARMAND.

>> CAN I GIVE YOU SOMETHING BEFORE I GO?

>> Braude: SURE.

WHAT HAVE YOU GOT?

>> THIS IS OUR MOTTO: "HURT PEOPLE HURT PEOPLE, AND HEALED PEOPLE HEAL PEOPLE."

I HOPE YOU CAN APPRECIATE THIS ONE, JIM.

I GOT ONE FOR MARGORIE AS WELL, SMALL.

>> Braude: GENTLEMEN, IT IS GOOD TO SEE YOU.

I HOPE YOU STAY IN TOUCH SO WE CAN CONTINUE TO TALK ABOUT IT.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

YOU CAN FIND MORE MUCH INFORMATION ABOUT THEIR ALL THEIR WORK ONLINE AT NEWENGLANDINNOCENCE.ORG AND TRANSFORMPRISON.ORG.

SEAN IS ALSO HOSTING A VIRTUAL EVENT TOMORROW CALLED VOICES OF THE INNOCENT.

YOU CAN FIND OUT MORE ABOUT THAT AT NEWENGLANDINNOCENCE.ORG AS WELL.

WITH JUST DAYS TO GO UNTIL FINAL BALLOTS ARE CAST, DEMOCRATS ACROSS THE COUNTRY ARE STARTING TO WONDER WHETHER THEY WENT WITH THE RIGHT MESSAGES TO WIN OVER VOTERS.

AND IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT THE DEMOCRATS' / CENTRAL/ MESSAGE/ HAS BEEN, APPARENTLY YOU'RE NOT ALONE.

>> DEMOCRACY IS ON THE BALLOT THIS YEAR.

>> WOMEN'S CONCERNS ABOUT THEIR FREEDOM ARE VERY, VERY MUCH STILL VERY SIGNIFICANT IN TERMS OF HOW THEY WILL VOTE.

>> THE ONLY WAY TO MAKE THIS ECONOMY FAIR IS IF WE-- ALL OF US-- FIGHT FOR IT.

>> CONTRACEPTION IS ON THE LINE.

MARRIAGE EQUALITY IS ON THE LINE.

WITH REPUBLICAN PARTY LEADERS IN CHARGE, HEALTH CARE IS ON THE LINE.

SOCIAL SECURITY WOULD BE ON THE LINE.

MEDICARE WOULD BE ON THE LINE.

GOOD JOBS AND FAIR WAGES FOR WORKING FAMILIES ON THE LINE.

>> BRAUDE: A LOT OF ELECTION-DEFINING ISSUES TO KEEP TRACK OF AND NOT A WHOLE LOT OF TALK ABOUT WHAT DEMOCRATS ACTUALLY ACCOMPLISHED OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS.

LIKE THE AMERICAN RESCUE PLAN, WHICH RESULTED IN STIMULUS CHECKS, MORE UNEMPLOYMENT PAYMENTS AND LOCAL AID AND EXPANDED THE CHILD TAX CREDIT--ALL OVER UNANIMOUS REJECTION FROM REPUBLICANS.

THE INFLATION REDUCTION ACT, WHICH PUT MONEY TOWARD RENEWABLE ENERGY PRODUCTION, FIGHTING CLIMATE CHANGE AND LOWERING PRESCRIPTION DRUG COSTS.

AGAIN, NOT A SINGLE REPUBLICAN SUPPORTER.

THEN, THERE WERE BIPARTISAN VICTORIES, WITH INCREASED INVESTMENT IN WATER, ENERGY AND BROADBAND INFRASTRUCTURE AND STRENGTHENING OF GUN CONTROL.

BUT DO VOTERS EVEN KNOW WHAT DEMOCRATS HAVE DELIVERED?

I'M JOINED BY STEVE KERRIGAN, WHO WAS THE 2014 DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE FOR LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR, C.E.O.

OF THE DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION AND CURRENTLY SERVES AS THE PRESIDENT AND C.E.O.

OF THE EDWARD M. KENNEDY COMMUNITY HEALTH CENTER; AND RAUL ALVILLAR, HARVARD INSTITUTE OF POLITICS FELLOW WHO HAS WORKED ON THE PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGNS OF AL GORE, BARACK OBAMA AND JOE BIDEN.

>> Braude: TWO OUT OF THREE AIN'T BAD, RAUL.

GOOD TO SEE YOU BOTH AND GOOD TO MEET YOU.

>> LIKEWISE.

>> Braude: PEOPLE LIKE GAVIN NEWSOM FROM CALIFORNIA SAID THINGS LIKE WE, MEANING THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY, ARE GETTING CRUSHED ON THE NARRATIVE.

DO YOU AGREE WITH HIM?

>> TO AN EXTENT, YES, BUT WE'RE DOING A GOOD JOB IN MAKING SURE WHEN OUR CANDIDATES ARE RUNNING, THEY'RE RUNNING IN THEIR LOCAL RACES, WHETHER IT IS THEIR LOCAL CONGRESSIONAL RACE OR LOCAL SENATE RACE, AND ALSO FOR SECRETARIES OF STATES AND LEGISLATIVE RACES.

I THINK THOSE WILL ALSO HELP.

I THINK THE MESSAGE IS: TALK TO YOUR VOTERS, TALK TO YOUR FOLKS, AND MAKE SURE YOU TELL THEM WHAT YOU'RE DOING AND WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO DO FOR THEM.

>> Braude: TO ADD TO THE NEWSEUM MESSAGE, A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE SAYING CARVEL IS RIGHT 30 YEARS LATER AND THERE IS NOT ENOUGH FOCUS ON IT.

BERNIE SANDERS IS ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE.

NOT ENOUGH FOCUS ON IT FROM DEMOCRATS RUNNING FOR HIGH OFFICE.

>> I DON'T KNOW WHERE THAT IS COMING FROM.

YOU SAW BIDEN AND FORMER PRESIDENT OBAMA.

IF A WOMAN IS FORCED TO HAVE A FAMILY WHEN SHE DOESN'T WANT TO OR CAN'T AFFORD TO, THAT'S AN ECONOMIC ISSUE.

ALL OF THESE THINGS.

>> Braude: SO YOU HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THE MESSAGING?

>> WHAT IS SURPRISING TO ME IS THAT THIS STORY IS COMING NOW AND NOT MAYBE THREE DAYS AGO.

THE STORY GETS WRITTEN EVERY TIME WE COME UP TO AN ELECTION -- >> Braude: IT WAS IN THAT RIGHT-WING RAG -- >> EVERYBODY WANTS TO WRING HANDS AND TALK ABOUT WHAT WE AREN'T DOING WHEN THEY SHOULD BE YOU'VE THOSE HANDS TO KNOCK ON DOORS.

>> Braude: WHAT IS THE MOST IMPORTANT ISSUE TO ME IS DEMOCRACY.

IF ABRAHAM LINCOLN WAS AN ELECTION DENIER, I WOULDN'T SUPPORT HIM.

BUT IN LIGHT OF THE FACT IT IS NOT RESONATING WITH MOST OF AMERICA, WHEN I READ THIS MORNING THAT JOE BIDEN WAS GOING TO DEDICATE A NIGHT TO WHAT IS CENTRAL TO ME BUT NOT A LOT OF VOTERS, WHAT DOES THAT SAY?

WHAT IS THAT ABOUT?

>> I THINK THERE IS ACTUALLY AN UNDERCURRENT.

AND I THINK THAT IS ON THE BALLOT.

I 100% THINK SO.

I THINK WE'RE SEEING THAT BECAUSE WE HAVE PEOPLE VOTING IN HUGE NUMBERS ALREADY AT EARLY VOTING, RIGHT?

>> Braude: AND YOU THINK THAT IS A REFLECTION OF THAT ISSUE?

>> IT'S A NUMBER OF ISSUES, RIGHT?

>> Braude: OKAY.

>> BUT THE POINT I'M MAKING THOSE ARE ALREADY IN THE BANK.

I THINK THESE LAST FEW DAYS -- AND AS YOU KNOW SIX DAYS IS A LONG TIME IN POLITICS, RIGHT?

I THINK THERE WILL BE SOME OF THOSE ISSUES -- AND I THINK WE'LL BE RESURRECTING THAT ISSUE, ESPECIALLY WITH WHAT HAPPENED TO THE SPEAKER'S HUSBAND IN SAN FRANCISCO.

>> Braude: BY THE WAY, MARGERY EAGAN, MY RADIO CO-HOST, I THINK AGREES WITH ME ABOUT THE IMPORTANCE OF DEMOCRACY HANGING BY A THREAD.

BUT SHE WOULD SAY FOR MOST VOTERS IT'S AN ABSTRACTION.

EVEN THOSE WHO CAN RECITE THE WORDS, LIKE ME.

DOES THE AVERAGE PERSON EVEN KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT?

WHAT DOES IT MEAN, DEMOCRACY IS AT RISK?

WHAT IS BIDEN GOING TO SAY?

>> I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE PRESIDENT IS GO TO SAY -- >> Braude: WHAT SHOULD HE SAY?

>> HE SHOULD SAY ALL OF THE THINGS YOU CARE ABOUT, ABORTION RIGHTS, GUN RIGHTS, YOUR GRANDPARENTS' SOCIAL SECURITY OR YOUR SOCIAL SECURITY, OR MEDICAID, ALL OF THOSE THINGS ARE AT RISK WHEN PEOPLE DON'T GET THE RIGHT TO VOTE.

I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY ELECTION DENIERS FROM THE 2020 ELECTION ACROSS THE COUNTRY -- ALL OF THOSE THINGS ARE AT RISK.

YOUR BASIC RIGHT TO VOTE AS AN AMERICAN IS WHAT YOU HAVE TO EXERCISE TO PROTECT THOSE THINGS.

I HOPE THAT IS WHAT HE IS SAYING.

>> Braude: THERE IS A GUY YOU BOTH WORKED FOR WHO GAVE A SPEECH AT A RALLY IN WISCONSIN EARLIER THIS WEEK.

HERE HE IS.

>> IF THERE WAS AN ASTEROID HEADED TOWARDS OUR EARTH, IT'S GOING TO LAND IN, LIKE, TWO WEEKS.

[LAUGHTER] >> IF YOU WENT INTO THE REPUBLICAN CAUCUS, WHAT DO YOU WANT TO DO, THEY WOULD BE WE NEED A TAX BREAK FOR THE WEALTHY.

THAT IS GOING TO HELP.

>> Braude: SADLY, THAT MAY BE TRUE.

I BET IF YOU STOPPED 100 PEOPLE IN THE STREET WHO WERE GOING TO VOTE REPUBLICAN, ECONOMY AND CRIME, THEY HAVE MADE CLEAR THAT'S WHAT THEY STAND FOR.

"STAND," I USE THE TERM LOOSELY.

CAN YOU SAY THE SAME THING ABOUT DEMOCRATS WITHOUT DOING A LAUNDRY LIST.

EVERY ONE OF THOSE ISSUES IS IMPORTANT, BUT WHEN YOU DO A LOT, YOU TEND TO LOSE FOCUS.

COULD YOU DO THE SAME FOR THE DEMOCRATS?

WHAT IS AT THE TOP OF THEIR LIST?

>> AT THE TOP OF THEIR LIST, I THINK WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT THE ECONOMY, AND ALL OF THE STUFF WE HAVE DONE.

YOU MENTIONED A FEW AT THE TOP OF THE SEGMENT -- >> Braude: WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO FOR ME TOMORROW, WOULD BE MY RESPONSE.

>> WE'RE GOING TO MAKE SURE YOU HAVE HEALTH CARE, MAKE SURE YOU HAVE HEALTH CARE FOR YOUR GRANDPARENTS, GOD FORBID THEY GET SICK.

WE ARE THAT PARTY.

WE HAVE TO TAKE BACK THAT MESSAGE BACK FROM THE REPUBLICANS.

I THINK THEY HAVE BEEN TRYING TO TAKE THAT FROM US AS DEMOCRATS.

SO WE HAVE TO DO THAT.

AND IT UP TO THE CANDIDATES TO DO THAT AS WELL.

AND MAKE SURE THEY'RE LETTING THE VOTERS KNOW.

>> Braude: OBAMA IS ONE OF THE GREATEST CAMPAIGNERS I HAVE EVER SEEN IN MY LIFE.

HE URGED DEMOCRATS, DON'T BE A, QUOTE, "BUZZ KILL," MAKING PEOPLE WALK ON EGGSHELLS WHEN IT COMES TO RACE AND GENDER.

YOU'RE NODDING.

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

>> IT TOOK US DECADES AFTER ROE v. WADE FOR ANYBODY TO SAY ABORTION.

WE FOUGHT FOR THAT RIGHT.

AND NOW EVERYONE TALKS ABOUT IT.

WE HAVE TO BE MORE BOLD.

THE OLD ADAGE, YOU ASK A THOUSAND REPUBLICANS WHAT THEY STAND FOR, THEY GIVE YOU ONE ANSWER.

YOU ASK A THOUSAND DEMOCRATS WHAT THEY STAND FOR, AND THEY GIVE YOU A THOUSAND ANSWERS.

A RACE THAT MIKE FRANKY IS RUNNING IS DIFFERENT.

DEMOCRATS NEED TO RESPOND TO THEIR ISSUES IN THEIR DISTRICT, AND CONNECT WITH THE ISSUES -- >> Braude: IS WHAT YOU'RE BOTH SAYING, STARTING WITH YOU, STEVE, YOU DON'T BUY THE NOTION THIS IS AN ELECTION TRENDING TOWARDS REPUBLICANS, NOT JUST IN THE HOUSE, BUT LIKELY IN THE SENATE, TOO?

YOU DON'T BUY THAT?

>> IT HAS BEEN 40 YEARS OR SO WHERE IN THE FIRST MID-TERMS OF THE PRESIDENT, THEY LOSE SEATS.

WE JUST HAVE FEWER TO LOSE, SO IT IS A TIGHTER MARGIN.

>> Braude: FIVE IN THE HOUSE AND NONE IN THE SENATE.

>> YES.

IN SOME CYCLES, LOSING 20 SEATS MIGHT NOT FLIP THE MAJORITY, BUT IT IS GOING TO IN THIS CASE.

I DON'T BUY OUR MESSAGE IS THE REASON WHY.

HISTORY MAY BE ONE OF THE REASONS WHY.

BUT WE HAVE SOME OF THE BEST CANDIDATES WE'VE EVER HAD, AND EIGHT IN 10 BELIEVE IN LEGAL ACCESS TO ABORTION.

THE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS BELIEVE IN THE DEMOCRATS' ECONOMIC POLICIES.

THEY SEE THE BENEFITS.

JOE BIDEN HAS BEEN THE MOST SUCCESSFUL PRESIDENT FROM A LEGISLATIVE POINT OF VIEW.

>> Braude: WHAT DO YOU SEE COME -- WELL, I WAS GOING TO SAY ELECTION DAY, BUT PEOPLE ARE VOTING ALREADY.

THE FINAL DAY IS NEXT TUESDAY.

>> IN TERMS OF WHO IS GOING TO WIN?

>> Braude: DO YOU REJECT THE NARRATIVE THAT IS COMING FROM NON-PARTISAN PEOPLE, THAT THIS IS AN ELECTION TRENDING TOWARDS THE REPUBLICANS?

>> BEFORE I CAME ON THIS SHOW, I DID A COUPLE OF CALLS TO FOLKS ACTUALLY ON THE GROUND, PARTICULARLY IN NEVADA AND FLORIDA, EVEN IN THIS RACE AGAINST MARCO RUBIO.

>> Braude: NEVADA IS AN ABSOLUTELY DEAD HEAT WITH AN INCUMBENT DEMOCRAT -- >> RIGHT.

BUT THEY'RE AN EXCEPTION BECAUSE THEY WERE DEVASTATED ECONOMICALLY WITH COVID.

SO THAT IS RESONATING.

BUT YOU CAN'T UNDERESTIMATE THE POWER OF THE CULINARY FOLKS ON THE GROUND THERE.

AND YOU CAN'T UNDERESTIMATE THE NUMBERS OF PEOPLE THAT ARE THERE ON THE GROUND TALKING TO PEOPLE.

I WAS INVOLVED YESTERDAY WITH A TEXT BANK, WHERE WE WERE TEXTING FOLKS FROM THE HARVARD DEMOCRATS, AND SO WE WERE GETTING A RESPONSE.

ONE OF THE STUDENTS TOLD ME, WHICH I THINK WAS KIND OF INTERESTING TO ME, AND WHY I GO BACK TO WHAT WHAT HAPPENED TO PELOSI'S HUSBAND THAT HAS PEOPLE WORRIED, LITERALLY THEY KNOCKED ON THE DOOR, AND ONE OF THE VOTERS SAID TO THEM, AND THIS IS A YOUNG STUDENT, AND HE SAID, DON'T GO OVER THERE BECAUSE THEY MAY NOT LIKE YOU BEING AT THEIR HOUSE TALKING ABOUT JOE BIDEN.

SO I THINK IF PEOPLE START REALIZING THAT AND START SEEING THAT, IT SETS SOMETHING OFF BECAUSE IT SHOULD.

YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE TO BE AFRAID OF GOING TO YOUR NEIGHBOR'S HOUSE.

THAT'S THE UNDERCURRENT THAT IS GOING TO HELP PUSH SOME OF THESE CANDIDATES OVER THE EDGE AND GET THEM WHERE THEY NEED TO BE.

>> Braude: I'LL CALL YOU BOTH ON WEDNESDAY.

STEVE, RAUL, GREAT TO SEE YOU.

THAT'S IT FOR TONIGHT.

THANKS FOR WATCHING, AND PLEASE DON'T FORGET UKRAINE.

>> IN NEWTON, MASSACHUSETTS, THERE'S A STAR MARKET THAT OVERHANGS THE MASS TURNPIKE.

AND, I WAS CURIOUS WHY THAT WAS?

>> I'M EDGAR B. HERWICK III, AND THIS IS THE "CURIOSITY DESK."

WELL, WE START THINGS OFF TODAY IN A PLACE THAT I AM CONFIDENT IS FAMILIAR TO YOU ALL-- A SUPERMARKET.

THIS ONE IS A LOT LIKE ANY OTHER.

THE COFFEE'S NEAR THE TEA, THE BUTTER'S NEAR THE MILK, AND THE SHELVES ARE STOCKED WITH AN ABUNDANCE OF OPTIONS.

NOW, EVEN IF YOU'VE NEVER BEEN INSIDE, YOU'VE LIKELY DRIVEN UNDER THIS GUY.

AND WHILE THE BUILDING ITSELF DATES TO THE 1960S, ITS STORY BEGINS ALMOST HALF A CENTURY PRIOR.

>> THE STAR MARKET BEGAN IN WATERTOWN.

THE FIRST ONE OPENED IN 1915.

>> THAT'S CLARA SILVERSTEIN WITH "HISTORIC NEWTON."

>> THE OWNER WAS NAMED SARKIS MUGAR, AND HE WAS FROM ARMENIA.

>> SARKIS HELMED THE WATERTOWN STAR MARKET UNTIL 1922.

WHEN HE DIED FOLLOWING AN AUTOMOBILE ACCIDENT, HIS SON STEVEN TOOK OVER THE STORE, AND IN 1930, OPENED A SECOND STAR MARKET RIGHT HERE IN NEWTONVILLE.

BUT THE BOLDEST LEAP CAME IN 1948, WITH THE STAR MARKET'S FIRST SUPERMARKET.

BUT STAR MARKET WAS IMMEDIATELY ON A COLLISION COURSE WITH THE LATEST THING IN ROADS-- THE MODERN HIGHWAY.

>> MORE AND MORE AND MORE CARS.

>> THE TURNPIKE AUTHORITY WANTED TO GO THROUGH NEWTONVILLE AND TAKE OVER THE STAR MARKET'S PARKING LOT.

>> THE TURNPIKE AUTHORITY GOT ITS ROUTE, AND THE MUGAR'S WERE GRANTED THE AIR RIGHTS TO BUILD A NEW STORE ON TOP OF THE NEW TURNPIKE.

THE SUCCESS OF THE STAR MARKET PROJECT FUELED THE IMAGINATIONS OF DEVELOPERS AND CITY LEADERS, WHO SAW A FUTURE WITH GLEAMING BUILDINGS OVER THE PIKE.

IN REALITY, NOTHING HAS BEEN BUILT WITH AIR RIGHTS WEST OF THE CITY IN ALMOST 50 YEARS.

AND SO, IT STANDS OVER THE PIKE TODAY, A NOD TO NEWTON'S PAST, AND TO AN IMAGINED FUTURE THAT NEVER CAME TO PASS.

I'M EDGAR B. HERWICK III.

STAY CURIOUS OUT THERE.

CCAPTIONED BY +MEDIA ACCESS GROUP AT WGBH CACCESS.WGBH.ORG