>> TONIGHT ON GREATER BOSTON, THE U.S. IS MAKING ITS PRESENCE FELT IN YET ANOTHER INTERNATIONAL WAR AS PRESIDENT BIDEN ATTEMPTS TO AID AND INFLUENCE ISRAEL, BUT WHAT SHOULD AMERICA'’S ROLE BE HAS MORE CIVILIANS DIE IN GAZA.

AN ALARMING RISE IN ANTI-SEMITISM AND VIOLENCE ON COLLEGE CAMPUSES AS THE ISRAEL-HAMAS WAR BEGAN.

WHAT KIND OF ROLE SHOULD THE UNITED STATES PLAY IN THE WAR BETWEEN ISRAEL AND HAMAS?

RIGHT NOW MANY OF THE HUNDREDS OF AMERICAN CITIZENS STUCK IN GUYS THAT ARE ON THEIR WAY BACK HOME AFTER FINALLY BEING ALLOWED TO CROSS THE BORDER INTO EGYPT.

THE PALESTINIANS THAT REMAIN ARE FACING GROUND ATTACKS IN ADDITION TO AIRSTRIKES, WHICH OF ROT THE DEATH TOLL UP TO MORE THAN 9000 PEOPLE IN GAZA.

THE SITUATION HAS PROMPTED A TOP UNITED NATIONS OFFICIAL TO STEP DOWN FROM HIS POST, SAYING ISRAEL IS COMMITTING A TEXTBOOK CASE OF GENOCIDE ALL THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY TURNS A BLIND EYE.

STILL, PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN IS CALLING ON CONGRESS TO PASS BILLIONS OF AID TO ISRAEL AND URGING PRIME MINISTER NETANYAHU TO REJECT CIVILIANS OF GAZA WHILE MAINTAINING ISRAEL'’S RIGHT TO DEFEND ITSELF.

HE OUTLINED HIS VIEW OF AMERICA'’S ROLE IN THIS WAR AND OTHERS LIKE THIS IN A RECENT OVAL OFFICE ADDRESS.

PRESIDENT BIDEN: AMERICAN LEADERSHIP HOLDS THE WORLD TOGETHER.

AMERICAN ALLIANCES KEEP AMERICA SAFE.

AMERICAN VALUES ARE WHAT MAKE US A PARTNER THAT THE NATIONS WANT TO WORK WITH.

GAUTAM: BIDEN IS THE LATEST OF AMERICAN LEADERS WHO SEES THIS COUNTRY AS A MORAL AUTHORITY FOR CONFLICTS.

A CONTROVERSIAL NOTION THAT HAS DRAWN PUSHBACK AROUND THE WORLD AND HERE AT HOME, INCLUDING FROM THIS HISTORIAN.

IN A RECENT OP-ED, HE QUESTIONED BIDEN'’S VIEW ASKING, IS THE U.S. AND INDISPENSABLE NATION OR RECKLESS AND MISGUIDED.

HE'’S ALSO THE COFOUNDER AND BOARD CHAIR FOR THE QUINCY INSTITUTE FOR RESPONSIBLE STATECRAFT AND A PROFESSOR OF HISTORY AT BU.

HE JOINS ME NOW.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US TODAY.

CAN YOU LAY OUT WHAT YOU THINK THE UNITED STATES MISTAKE IS IN ITS POLICY IN ISRAEL AND IN UKRAINE?

>> A THINK THE BROADER MISTAKE, THE ERROR OF JUDGMENT IS ACTUALLY CONTAINED IN THE CLIP THAT YOU JUST PLAYED OF THE PRESIDENT, THE ASSERTION THAT WE ARE CALLED UPON TO BE THE GLOBAL LEADER THAT ENDOWS UPON THE UNITED STATES AS A GREAT MORAL AUTHORITY.

I THINK THAT WHEN YOU EXAMINE OUR BEHAVIOR, PARTICULARLY SINCE THE END OF THE COLD WAR, PARTICULARLY SINCE 9/11, OUR OWN ACTIONS UNDERMINE THE PRESIDENT'’S CLAIM.

SO THE BEGINNING OF WISDOM, TO MY MIND, IS TO GIVE UP THOSE CLAIMS AND MOVE TO A MORE HONEST AND REALISTIC POSTURE.

WHAT WOULD THAT MEAN WITH REGARD TO UKRAINE, WHAT WOULD THAT MEAN WITH REGARD TO GAZA AND ISRAEL?

IT SEEMS THAT ACKNOWLEDGING THE DIFFICULTIES AND COMPLEXITIES OF THOSE TWO CONFLICTS THAT WE SHOULD EXERT OURSELVES TO TRY TO BRING EACH OF THEM TO A CLOSE RATHER THAN ADDING FUEL TO EXTEND THEM.

GAUTAM: LET'’S START WITH UKRAINE , THE U.S. COULD PUSH TO BRING THE CONFLICT TO A THOSE BY CUTTING OFF UKRAINE.

THAT WOULD BRING THEM TO DEFEAT BUT THAT DOES NOT SOUND TO ME LIKE WHAT YOU ARE ADVOCATING.

>> I WILL BE SPEAKING IN GENERAL TERMS RATHER THAN SPECIFICS.

THE ORIGINS OF THE UKRAINE WAR, AND UNNECESSARY OR, IN MY VIEW, IT CAME FROM THE UNWILLINGNESS OF THE UNITED STATES AND SOME OF ITS ALLIES TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT RUSSIA DOES HAVE A VITAL INTEREST, HAS A SECURITY INTEREST, AND THOSE SECURITY INTERESTS REQUIRE PRESSURE TO HAVE SOME SENSE OF NOT BEING SURROUNDED BY OUR ADVERSARIES.

THE NATO EXPANSION WAS A DISASTROUS UNDERTAKING BY THE UNITED STATES AND THE INSISTENCE OF THE UNITED STATES THAT UKRAINE SHOULD JOIN NATO WAS THE APPROXIMATE CAUSE OF THE WAR.

GAUTAM: I'’M JUST GOING TO PUSH YOU ON THAT A LITTLE BIT.

MY RECOLLECTION OF HISTORY IS THAT THE UNITED STATES DID NOT INSIST THEY JOIN NATO, BUT THAT THEY HAVE THE OPTION OF JOINING NATO.

I DON'’T THINK THAT'’S THE SAME THING.

>> IT MAY NOT BE THE SAME THING, BUT IT CERTAINLY RHYMES.

GIVEN THE AGGRESSIVENESS WITH WHICH THE U.S.

SPONSORED THE EASTWARD MARCH OF NATO TO INCLUDE, FOR EXAMPLE, INCORPORATING THE BALTIC REPUBLICS FORMER SOVIET REPUBLICS, INCORPORATING THEM INTO NATO, IT WOULD BE REASONABLE, I THINK, FOR RUSSIAN LEADERS TO CONCLUDE THAT UKRAINE IS NEXT ON THE HIT LIST.

AND THEY HAVE MADE IT VERY CLEAR OVER SOME YEARS THAT THEY CONSIDER THAT TO BE A BASIS FOR GOING TO WAR.

I'’M NOT JUSTIFYING ANYTHING PUTIN HAS DONE, HE'’S A CRIMINAL.

HE IS CERTAINLY NOT A FRIEND TO FREEDOM AND DEMOCRACY, BUT IT'’S PRETTY UNDERSTANDABLE, IF YOU LOOK AT IT FROM RUSSIA'’S POINT OF VIEW, HOW THEY HAVE BEHAVED.

I THINK THE GENERAL POINT IS THAT WE HAVE NOT LOOKED AT THIS SITUATION FROM THE OTHER GUYS'’S POINT OF VIEW.

ONE MIGHT EVEN SAY THE SAME THING WITH REGARD TO GAZA-ISRAEL .

THAT VERY FEW PEOPLE IN WASHINGTON STEPPED BACK AND SAID, I WONDER HOW THE RESIDENTS OF GAZA MIGHT REACT IF THE CONDITIONS LOCKING THE GAZANS UP IN THE SMALL PIECE OF TERRITORY, IF THOSE CONDITIONS PERSIST.

WE DIDN'’T ASK THE QUESTION, THE ISRAELIS DID NOT ASK THE QUESTION, SO WE HAVE ALL BEEN SHOCKED AND SURPRISED.

GAUTAM: I THINK THE QUESTION SEEMS LIKE IT'’S CRITICAL, BUT IT SEEMS LIKE THERE IS A THIRD PARTY, JUST TO STICK TO RUSSIA AND RUSSIA-UKRAINE, WHICH IS THE UKRAINIANS POINT.

SURELY, THEIR VOTE, AND THEY SEEM TO REALLY NOT WANT TO BE PART OF RUSSIAN INFLUENCE, ALSO HAS SOMETHING TO SAY TO UKRAINE.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

IF I WERE UKRAINIAN, IF THAT'’S WHERE MY LOYALTY LAY, I MIGHT SIGN UP TO THAT PROPOSITION, BUT I'’M AN AMERICAN AND MY PRIMARY INTEREST IS THE SECURITY AND WELL-BEING OF THE UNITED STATES.

I THINK THAT ODD TO BE THE PRIMARY CONSIDERATION OF PRESIDENT BIDEN, AND IT SEEMS TO ME -- NOT JUST BIDEN, BUT HIS PREDECESSOR AS WELL, THAT THE COURSE OF ACTION WE HAVE FOLLOWED HAS TENDED TO LOSE SIGHT OF OUR OWN INTEREST, OF OUR OWN SECURITY, OF OUR OWN WELL-BEING.

WE END UP BEING INVOLVED IN MORE WORLD WARS AND WE NEED, MANY OF WHICH HAVE DONE GREAT HARM TO THE UNITED STATES.

GAUTAM: TO SHIFT THE LENS, THERE'’S A HUGE GAP WITH THE INVASION OF IRAQ AND FUNNELING WEAPONS TO UKRAINE OR TO ISRAEL.

IN THE CASE OF ISRAEL, WHAT WOULD THE MORE RESTRAINED POLICY THAT YOU'’RE ADVOCATING FOR LOOK LIKE?

>> IT DOESN'’T MATTER WHAT I SAY ON THIS POINT, THE UNITED STATES IS GOING TO CONTINUE TO PROVIDE THE WHEREWITHAL TO ISRAEL TO HELP IT IN THE CONDUCT OF ITS WAR.

THAT'’S A GIVEN.

WE WILL SEE HOW THE CONGRESS ACTS ON THAT, BUT I THINK IT WILL CONTINUE TO HAPPEN.

THERE'’S PRETTY GOOD EVIDENCE THAT AFTER THE PRESIDENTS, WE WILL BE WITH YOU FOREVER, RHETORIC, THAT IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWED THE GAZA TERROR ATTACK, I THINK THERE'’S PRETTY GOOD EVIDENCE THAT THERE IS SOME RETHINKING GOING ON IN WASHINGTON AND THAT THE NOTION OF TRYING TO EXERT SOME AMOUNT OF RESTRAINT ON ISRAEL'’S CONDUCT TO THE WAR, THAT IDEA IS GAINING FAVOR.

I THINK IT'’S A GOOD IDEA.

PARTLY FROM A HUMANITARIAN POINT OF VIEW, PARTLY BECAUSE, HOWEVER DIFFICULT IT MAY BE, WE ABSOLUTELY NEED TO FIND SOME WAY TO BRING THIS WAR TO AN END.

FOR OUR OWN SECURITY INTEREST FOR STRATEGIC REASONS.

THEREFORE, TONING DOWN THE LEVEL OF VIOLENCE IS A FIRST PRELIMINARY STEP IN THAT DIRECTION.

THAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN.

GAUTAM: I WANT TO KEEP PUSHING ON THAT, WHAT DOES TONING DOWN THE LEVEL OF VIOLENCE LOOK LIKE IN THE WAKE OF THE ATTACKS?

IF THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT SEES THE LARGEST DEATH OF JEWS SINCE THE HOLOCAUST, IT WOULD BE DIFFICULT FOR THE U.S. GOVERNMENT TO SAY, YOU SHOULD NOT RESPOND TO THAT.

>> NOBODY HAS SUGGESTED THAT.

THEY HAVE RESPONDED, VIGOROUSLY, TO PUT IT MILDLY.

GAUTAM: I GUESS WHAT I'’M ASKING, IS THERE A LINE YOU WOULD SAY THIS IS TOO MUCH?

WHAT SPECIFICALLY SHOULD THE U.S. GOVERNMENT BE TELLING THE ISRAELIS TO DO OR NOT DO?

>> SOME OF THE TELLING IS GOING ON NOW.

AS FAR AS WE CAN TELL, AS DISTANT OBSERVERS, WATCHING TV, THE CONDITIONS INSIDE GAZA, WHICH WERE NEVER GOOD, ARE NOW HORRIFIC AND THEREFORE, SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DONE TO TRY TO REIN IN THE LEVEL OF VIOLENCE.

I PERSONALLY THINK WE HAVE VERY LIMITED LEVERAGE WITH ISRAEL.

ANY MATTER THAT TOUCHES ON ISRAELI NATIONAL SECURITY, THEY EXERCISE, THEY INSIST UPON EXERCISING AN ENORMOUS LEVEL OF AUTONOMY.

NONETHELESS, WE NEED TO DO OUR BEST TO TRY TO CURB THE LEVEL OF VIOLENCE AS A PRELIMINARY STEP TOWARDS FINDING A WAY TO ENDING THE CONFLICT.

GAUTAM: YOU SHOULD'’VE MENTIONED THAT YOU DIDN'’T LIKE PASSING THE UNITED STATES AS AN INDEPENDENCE UP -- INDISPENSABLE NATION.

I FINAL QUESTION IS, IF THE UNITED STATES WASN'’T LEANING IN TO HELP PROTECT UKRAINE RIGHT NOW, I IMAGINE THE OUTCOME OF THE WAR WOULD LOOK A LOT DIFFERENT.

DOESN'’T THAT MEET THE DICTIONARY DEFINITION OF INDISPENSABLE?

>> PERHAPS WHO WILL DISAGREE ON THIS POINT.

I BELIEVE -- I THINK THE RECORD SHOWS THAT INFLATED CLAIMS ABOUT OUR INFLUENCE AND ABOUT OUR CAPACITY TO DIRECT EVENTS IN THE WORLD, LEADS TO DISASTER.

WHERE IS THE PROOF?

THE PROOF IS IN THE BEHAVIOR OF THE UNITED STATES, AND EXAMPLE, THE BEHAVIOR OF THE UNITED STATES AFTER 9/11, WHEN WE LAUNCHED THE FOLLOWING OF THE GLOBAL WAR ON TERRORISM, WHICH HAS COST OUR COUNTRY DEARLY, IN BLOOD, IN TREASURE, AND PERHAPS, AT LEAST AS IMPORTANT IN CREATING INSTABILITY IN OUR OWN DEMOCRACY.

WE CAN'’T AFFORD ANY MORE OF THAT, THEREFORE WE NEED TO THINK ABOUT A PRUDENT AND REALISTIC WAY OF DEALING IN THE WORLD MIGHT BE.

GAUTAM: PROFESSOR, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US TODAY.

HARVARD UNIVERSITY IS LAUNCHING AN ANTISEMITISM ADVISORY BOARD AMID BUILDING TENSIONS OVER THE ISRAEL-HAMAS WAR.

SEEN IN THIS VIDEO POSTED TO SOCIAL MEDIA.

IT'’S NOT JUST HARVARD.

CLASSES AT CORNELL UNIVERSITY WERE CANCELED FOR A DAY OVER ANTI-SEMITIC THREATS.

AN EXTRAORDINARY STRESS OVER THE WAR.

AT TULANE UNIVERSITY TO JEWISH STUDENTS WERE ASSAULTED BY PRO-PALESTINIAN PROTESTERS AND IN NEW YORK CITY THE GOVERNOR ANNOUNCED AN INDEPENDENT REVIEW OF ANTISEMITISM POLICIES AT COLLEGES.

IN JUST THE FIRST TWO WEEKS AFTER THE HAMAS ATTACK ON ISRAEL, THE ANTI-DEFAMATION LEAGUE REPORTED 312 INCIDENTS.

THAT'’S NEARLY FOUR TIMES HIGHER THAN THE SAME TIME LAST YEAR.

WHAT CAN COLLEGES DO TO RAMP DOWN TENSIONS, PROTECT STUDENTS AND PROTECT ACADEMIC FREEDOM?

I'’M JOINED NOW BY THE FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE NAACP, WHO NOW TEACHES PUBLIC LEADERSHIP AND SOCIAL JUSTICE AT THE HARVARD COUNTY PUBLIC SCHOOL IN THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE JEWISH COMMUNITY RELATIONS COUNCIL.

THEY CUE SO MUCH FOR BEING WITH US TODAY.

JEREMY, WHAT ARE YOU SEEING ON CAMPUSES ACROSS THE COUNTRY?

JEREMY: AS YOU INDICATED IN YOUR INTRO, THERE ARE SOME TRULY HORRIFIC AND SCARY INCIDENTS GOING ON ON MANY CAMPUSES AROUND THE COUNTRY.

WHILE SOME OF THE MOST PROMINENT IVY LEAGUE, MOST PROMINENT SCHOOLS IN THE COUNTRY HAVE GOTTEN THE ATTENTION, THIS IS HAPPENING EVERYWHERE.

EVEN IN BOSTON THE ATTENTION IS GIVEN TO HARVARD UNIVERSITY IS THAT IT'’S AT WELLESLEY, EMERSON, BU, ETC., JUST VERY SCARY.

GAUTAM: YOU SPENT YOUR LIFE FIGHTING RACISM AND BIGOTRY, IT MUST BE SHOCKING TO SEE A RESURGENCE OF THE OLDEST FORM OF BIGOTRY COMING -- I WON'’T SAY OUT OF NOWHERE, BUT IN A WAY WE WOULD NOT HAVE EXPECTED A FEW YEARS AGO.

>> IT IS NOT ONLY SHOCKING BUT HISTORICALLY UNSURPRISING.

JUST AS YOU NAMED IN PHTHISIS UP -- ANTISEMITISM PREDATES THIS WAR AND WILL LIKELY CONTINUE HAPPENING AFTER THIS WAR.

WHAT WE SEE ON AMERICAN COLLEGE CAMPUSES IS EMBLEMATIC OF WHAT HAS HAPPENED AND WHAT IS HAPPENING ALL ACROSS THIS COUNTRY.

AND IF THE STATISTICS ARE TRUE, WHICH THEY ARE, IS HAPPENING AROUND THE WORLD.

SO THIS IS NOT HISTORICALLY NOT SHOCKING, BUT WHAT IT SHOULD DO IS MAKE US VIGILANT AND DECISIVE IN TERMS OF HOW WE RESPOND.

GAUTAM: DO YOU HAVE AN EXPLANATION FOR WHAT WE ARE SEEING HERE?

JEREMY: I THINK THAT IN TIMES OF TRAUMA, IN TIMES OF DIVISION, THERE IS A PROPENSITY TO GO TO CLASSIC HATRED, AND CLASSIC EXPLANATIONS OF WHO IS MY OPPRESSOR, WHO IS BEHIND WHATEVER HARM I AM EXPERIENCING.

I THINK WE HAVE SEEN THAT IN THIS COUNTRY IN RECENT YEARS THAT FOR A VARIETY OF REASONS PEOPLE FROM THE LEFT, FROM THE RIGHT AND SEEKING SOMEONE TO BLAME FOR THEIR TROUBLES, GO BACK TO THAT DEFAULT OF, IT MUST BE THE JEWS.

THERE ARE OTHER FORMS OF HATRED AND BIGOTRY ON THE RISE, RACISM, HOMOPHOBIA, ISLAMOPHOBIA.

EACH HAS A CHARACTER, BUT ANTISEMITISM IS ROOTED IN THE IDEA THAT IT'’S FUNDAMENTALLY THE JEW IS TO BLAME OR WHATEVER IS GOING ON IN MY SOCIETY.

IT'’S NO SURPRISE, AT A TIME LIKE THIS, WHEN PEOPLE ARE ANGRY AND FEELING PAIN, THEY ARE TURNING TO THE JEW TO BLAME.

GAUTAM: HISTORICALLY, IT ANTISEMITISM IS A PART OF SOCIETY, BUT IT'’S MORE SO WITH THE RIGHT THAN THE LEFT.

I THINK A LOT OF THE SHOCK THAT WE SEE HERE IS IN PLACES THAT VERY SELF-CONSCIOUSLY IDENTIFY THEMSELVES AS BEING SAFE AND WELCOMING TO MINORITIES AND HAVE ESTABLISHMENTS FOR MINORITIES AND SEEING INSTANCES THAT ARE NOT PROTESTING POLICIES BUT ARE CLEARLY CROSSING SOME SORT OF LINE INTO WHAT IS OPENLY THAT.

>> I THINK THAT THERE IS A FALSE SENSE OF SECURITY DERIVED FROM IDEOLOGY, WHICH IS TO SAY THAT ANTISEMITISM, ANTI-BLACK RACISM, XENOPHOBIA IS ASSOCIATED WITH THE RIGHT.

IN TERMS OF VIOLENCE, IT MOST CERTAINLY IS, BUT IT IS NOT THE MONOPOLY OF THE RIGHT.

SO WE MAY NOT BE VIGILANT WITH RESPECT TO ONE SIDE OF THE SPECTRUM AND TO IGNORE THE PROSPECT OF HATE AND VIOLENCE AND HATE CRIMES ON THE OTHERS, IT IS A MATTER OF ATTACKING HATE FOR WHAT IT IS AS SUCH.

SO WHEN WE SEE THIS SPIKE IN ANTI-SEMITISM, 200% MOST RECENTLY, MUCH MORE THAN THAT OVER THE LAST SIX OR SO YEARS, IT SHOULD BE ALARMING FOR US BECAUSE IT REALLY REPRESENTS A THREAT TO OUR DEMOCRACY AND A THREAT TO OUR DEMOCRACY IN A PLACE WHERE WE ARE MOST VULNERABLE, MAINLY AMONG OUR YOUNG PEOPLE AND IN THE PLACES WHERE WE SHOULD EXPECT IT TO SAY ON COLLEGE CAMPUSES WHERE WE NURTURE THE INTELLECT, WE BUILD CHARACTER, WE PREPARE THOSE WHO ARE GOING TO BE THE CUSTODIANS OF OUR DEMOCRACY.

THE POINT BEING IS, WE CANNOT DERIVE ANY FALSE SENSE OF SECURITY BECAUSE THE RACES HAVE A DEAL ON CONSERVATIVE OR LIBERAL ATTACKS THEIR IDEOLOGY OR THEIR HATE.

JEREMY: I AGREE WITH WHAT CORNELL SAID, AND I WOULD ADD IT'’S NOT SURPRISING TO SEE THIS KIND OF ANTISEMITISM APPEARING ON THE FAR LEFT.

I THINK ONE OF THE DANGERS WE HAVE AS A SOCIETY IS TO SAY THAT ANTISEMITISM IS ON AN IDEOLOGICAL WING OF THE POLITICAL SPECTRUM.

IN THAT, IN SOME PART, WE'’VE HAD A VERY TOXIC DYNAMIC WHERE PEOPLE WEAPONIZE EMPI -- ANTISEMITISM TO GO AFTER THE POLITICAL OPPONENTS SO WE DON'’T GIVE ATTENTION TO ANTI-SEMITISM AS IT SHOWS UP IN A VARIETY OF WAYS.

WE'’VE SEEN ANTISEMITISM ON THE LEFT RISING.

IN BOSTON WE SAW THAT AROUND THE MAPPING PROJECT AND THE DESIRE BY SOME TO SAY THE LOCAL JEWISH COMMUNITY IN BOSTON OUGHT TO BE DISMANTLED IN ITS ROLE FOR EVERYTHING AND AMERICAN COLONIALISM TO THE EXISTENCE OF EVERY PROBLEM UNDER THE SUN.

WHAT IS MORE TROUBLING RIGHT NOW IS THAT IT'’S ESSENTIALLY COMING OUT OF THE CLOSET AND PEOPLE ARE MARCHING IN THE STREETS DECLARING EXPLICIT SUPPORT FOR A TERRORIST ORGANIZATION, CELEBRATING TERRORISM.

WHAT IS ALSO CHALLENGING IS THAT GOOD PEOPLE IN LIBERAL SOCIETY ARE FINDING IT DIFFICULT TO FIND THE WORDS TO DENOUNCE IT AND TO STAND UP TO IT.

>> JEREMY, I HAVE TO SAY, THANK YOU FOR NAMING THIS AS SUCH.

WHAT I MEAN BY THAT IS, RAPE, MURDER, TORTURE, BEHEADINGS ARE, AT THEIR ESSENCE, VIOLENCE, AND WHEN YOU TARGET JEWISH PEOPLE FOR SUCH, THIS IS EMBLEMATIC OF ANTI-SEMITISM.

IT IS WHAT IT IS.

WE CANNOT APOLOGIZE FOR IT, WE CANNOT CREATE PREDICATE CONDITIONS FOR CALLING OUT ANTISEMITISM, WE HAVE TO CALL IT FOR WHAT IT IS, WHERE IT IS, AND WHOEVER IS THE PERPETRATOR.

IT IS WHAT IT IS.

BECAUSE IF WE DON'’T DO SUCH, WE REALLY FEEBLE OURSELVES.

WE DISEMPOWER OURSELVES AS HUMAN BEINGS AND AS MORAL BEINGS.

AND I WOULD NOTE HERE, WE ALSO MAKE OURSELVES LESS ABLE TO CALL OUT OTHER INSTANCES.

NOTE THIS, THERE ARE ONLY TWO ORGANIZATIONS IN THIS COUNTRY THAT WERE CREATED TO ADDRESS HATE CRIMES AND IN RESPONSE TO LYNCHINGS, THE NAACP AND THE ANTI-DEFAMATION LEAGUE.

BOTH HAVE CONDEMNED OTHER FORMS OF HATE.

SO UNLESS WE CALL OUT THIS ROUTE HATE, WE WILL BE LESS ABLE TO CALL OUT ISLAMOPHOBIA, ANTIBLACK RACISM, ANTI-ASIAN RACISM OR ISLAMOPHOBIA, OR ANY OF THE OTHERS THAT PLAGUE OUR DEMOCRACY.

WE HAVE TO START AT THE ROOT.

GAUTAM: SO THIS ISN'’T JUST A BOSTON PHENOMENON, WHAT WE SEE ACROSS OUR COUNTRY IS A MAP SHOWING ANTISEMITISM INCIDENTS AND ANTI-ISRAEL RALLIES THAT OCCURRED IN OCTOBER.

WE WANT TO DIFFERENTIATE.

YOU CAN OPPOSE THE POLICIES OF THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT WITHOUT GOING OVER ANTISEMITISM, BUT SOMEHOW THE GROUPS AND RALLIES THAT ARE MOST ENTHUSIASTIC ABOUT SAYING WE SHOULD NOT BLAME ALL PALESTINIANS FOR THE ACTIONS OF HAMAS, WHICH CLEARLY WE SHOULD NOT, SOMETIMES HAVE DIFFICULTIES DISTINGUISHING BETWEEN THE ACTIONS OF ISRAEL AND ALL JEWS.

I WONDER WHAT'’S WORTH COMMENTING ON THAT.

JEREMY: I'’M GLAD YOU POINTED THAT OUT AND I WOULD CONNECT THAT TO WHAT CORNELL SAID.

IT'’S INCUMBENT ON ALL OF US TO RECOGNIZE WE HAVE TO SPEAK OUT AGAINST ALL OF THE HATREDS RIGHT NOW.

FBI DIRECTOR RAGES YESTERDAY SPOKE TO A SKYROCKETING ANTI-SEMITISM AND ANTI-ARAB RACISM AND ISLAMOPHOBIA COUNTRY I FEEL IS INCUMBENT TO CALL OUT THOSE MEMBERS OF CONGRESS WHO WENT ON THE FLOOR YESTERDAY AND SAID THAT ALL PALESTINIANS ARE HAMAS AND ALL PALESTINIANS ARE NAZIS.

THAT HAS TO BE CALLED OUT.

WE NEED OTHER LEADERS TO CALL OUT ANTISEMITISM.

THERE'’S NO QUESTION ONE CAN BE DEEPLY CRITICAL OF A COUNTRY WITHOUT BEING ANTI-SEMITIC JUST AS ONE CAN BE ANTI-CRITTER -- CRITICAL OF THE AMERICAN GOVERNMENT WITHOUT BEING ANTI-AMERICAN.

THE CHALLENGES THAT PEOPLE ARE MAKING THIS LEAP INTO THE DEHUMANIZATION OF JEWS.

WE ARE SEEING THIS ONE EXAMPLE ACROSS THE COUNTRY AND WORLD, PEOPLE ARE PROBABLY GOING ON CAMERA, LIKE ITS A TIDE PODS CHALLENGE, AND TEARING DOWN THE SIGNS OF THESE 220 ODD PEOPLE, INCLUDING BABIES BEING HELD HOSTAGE.

SOMEHOW THERE IS THIS NEED IN THIS MOMENT, NOT JUST TO SAY WE ARE CRITICAL OF THE ISRAELI RESPONSE IN GAZA ARE CRITICAL OF THE OCCUPATION, BUT THAT WE NEED TO DE-HUMANIZE THAT YOU IN THIS MOMENT IN ORDER TO MOVE FORWARD WITH OUR IDEOLOGICAL PACKAGE.

>> THAT'’S REALLY FRIGHTENING.

WHY?

TO THE EXTENT THAT WE HAVE PEOPLE LOOKING AT PICTURES OF KIDNAPPED VICTIMS, INCLUDING CHILDREN, RENDERING JEWISH PEOPLE IN A MOMENT OF TRAUMA AND BIGOTRY AND VIOLENCE IN THIS, THIS IS ON A MORAL PLANE WITH OTHER WAYS IN WHICH WE HAD OTHER PEOPLE.

YOU CAN'’T REALLY UP LITTER GREAT SOMEONE'’S HUMANITARIAN -- HUMANITY.

AND CALL IT ANYTHING OTHER THAN WHAT IT IS, WHICH IS A FORM OF HATE.

I THINK IT'’S IMPORTANT TO LOOK AT THE VICTIMS OF KIDNAPPED.

I THINK IT'’S IMPORTANT FOR US TO LOOK AT THE VICTIMS OF PALESTINE IN TERMS OF CAMPS IN REFUGEE CAMPS.

WE CANNOT WRAP PEOPLE AND AVAIL OF INVISIBILITY BECAUSE IN DOING SO, WE MAKE OUR OWN HUMANITY LESS VISIBLE.

THAT IS JUST UNCONSCIONABLE.

WE DON'’T NEED TO RIPPING DOWN POSTERS, WE NEED TO LIFT PEOPLE UP AND EDUCATE PEOPLE.

IN THIS MOMENT, THE SHOCKING IGNORANCE WITH RESPECT TO THE HOLOCAUST, THE FACT THAT IF YOU ASK MANY PEOPLE AND EVEN A FEW STUDENTS, SOMETIMES YOU GET A BLANK STARE, AS IN, NOT KNOWING BEING IGNORANT AND HISTORICALLY AND MORALLY OF LIVER IS -- OBLIVIOUS.

GAUTAM: YOU MENTION THE USE OF ANTI-SEMITISM AS A POLITICAL WEAPON.

I THINK WE SEE THAT WHERE PRESIDENT TRUMP, WHO DINED WITH A NEO-NAZI AND MEMBERS OF CONGRESS WHO TALKED ABOUT JEWISH SPACE LASER STARTING FOREST FIRES, SEEM TO BE STANDING OUT AND ACCUSING THE OTHER SIDE OF FOSTERING ANTI-SEMITISM.

HOW DO WE GUARD AGAINST THIS BEING USED AS POLITICAL FOOTBALL INSTEAD OF SOMETHING WE ALL NEED TO FIGHT AGAINST?

JEREMY: I WOULD SAY VERY SIMPLY, YOU ARE ONLY CALLING OUT ANTISEMITISM WHEN IT SERVES YOUR PARTISAN INTEREST TO DO THAT.

YOU ARE NOT BEING A FRIEND TO THE JEWISH COMMUNITY.

IF YOU'’RE ONLY CALLING OUT ANTISEMITISM ON THE OTHERS OF THE POLITICAL AISLE, YOU ARE NOT SERIOUS ABOUT FIGHTING ANTI-SEMITISM, YOU'’RE INTERESTED IN MAKING POLITICAL POINTS.

I WOULD LOVE TO SEE THE REPUBLICAN CAUCUS IN CONGRESS OR THE REPUBLICAN DEAL WITH ANTISEMITISM WITHIN ITS OWN CAUCUS AND I WOULD LOVE TO SEE THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY, I'’M NOT GOING TO GET INTO NAMING NAMES, TO DEAL WITH ANTISEMITISM AS IT SHOWS UP IN COALITIONS AND SPACES.

THE TWO PARTIES CAN TAKE CARE OF THEMSELVES AND NEED TO STOP WORRYING ABOUT THE OTHER ONE.

>> MAY I NOTE THIS.

WHEN NAZIS WERE MARCHING THROUGH THE STREETS OF CHARLOTTESVILLE, VIRGINIA, THERE WERE SOME OF THESE PEOPLE THEN, WHEN THEY WERE SAYING JEWS WILL NOT REPLACE US, THEY MEAN BLACK FOLKS WILL NOT REPLACE US WITH THEIR TIKI TORCHES AND THEIR PENCHANT FOR VIOLENCE.

WHERE WERE SOME OF THESE FOLKS THEN.

IN OTHER WORDS, THE PART OF THE STATION, THIS POLITICAL HIJACKING OF THE MORAL CONDEMNATION OF ANTI-SEMITISM IS DUPLICITOUS, DISINGENUOUS, AND IT TOO SHOULD BE CALLED OUT.

MAY I MAKE ONE OTHER POINT, WHICH IS TO SAY, THE JEWISH COMMUNITY IS NOT A MONOLITH IN THE SAME WAY THE BLACK COMMUNITY IS NOT A MONOLITH.

WHEN I HEAR JEWISH STUDENTS VERY THOUGHTFULLY AND ENGAGING IN A POLITICAL AND MORAL ANALYSIS OF ISRAEL'’S POLICIES IN THE SAME WAY WE SEE WITH OUR MUSLIMS AND PALESTINIAN STUDENTS, WE NEED TO CREDIT THE YOUNG PEOPLE FOR NOT BEING A MONOLITH.

FOR JEWISH PEOPLE FOR NOT BEING THE MONOLITH, AND STOP THIS SCAPEGOATING BY STEREOTYPING AND THESE OVER GENERALIZATIONS THAT REALLY PLAY INTO THESE OLD, TIRED, VICIOUS AND POTENTIALLY VIOLENT TROPES.

GAUTAM: THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING WITH US TODAY.

THAT'’S IT FOR TONIGHT.

COME BACK TOMORROW FOR TALKING POLITICS.

AFTER A JUDGE HAS OKAYED THE GOVERNOR'’S DECISION TO STOP SHELTERING FAMILIES, ADAM REILLY AND HIS PANEL WILL DISCUSS WHAT HAPPENS NEXT.

PLUS, A PREVIEW OF BOSTON'’S UPCOMING AT-LARGE CITY COUNCIL ELECTIONS.

THAT AND MORE TOMORROW AT 7:00.

THANKS FOR WATCHING.

GOOD NIGHT.

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