As we gear for Thanksgiving next week, we always hear the familiar advice to avoid politics or any current events that could bring up mixed feelings at the dinner table.

But is talking and listening to one another such a bad thing?

If anything, transparency and openness have been major things over this past week.

So let's lean into that a little bit and get started with Colorado inside out, where our panel is never afraid to agree, disagree, and still keep it civil.

Hi, everyone, I'm Kyle Dyer.

Let me get right to introducing you to this week's insider panel.

We start with Patty Calhoun, founder and editor of Westword.

Eric Schneiderman, calmness with Colorado politics and the Denver and Colorado Springs Gazette.

Elena Alvarez, reporter with Axios Denver.

And also Christy Burton Brown, executive vice president at Advanced Colorado and former chair of the Colorado Republican Party.

Let's start in the capital city, where the city of Denver and the city council has a lot of big financial decisions to make.

And pretty soon, be it the $50 million for the new women's soccer stadium, $11 million for overtime and the Denver Police Department, or the final okay to pay the 30 million Downtown Development Authority grant for the Civic Center Park renovation, which broke ground already on Wednesday.

Patty and broke ground, despite the fact that I on this very show was saying postpone it, postpone it.

We need to have a non construction zone for our anniversary party in the 150th year of Colorado, and we could use the money that $30 million, which is just part of phase one and phase one is just part of the three phases, hasn't been approved yet by city council.

It is under the it was a proposal under the development authority.

It's been approved by them.

But council has to sign off on it.

In fact, council still hasn't signed off on 11 of the 13 proposed grants out there, including the much ballyhooed one for the petroleum building that just came out.

The conversion to residential.

I love downtown.

No one is a bigger booster of Go Downtown, but it's not out of the woods yet.

And one of the big problems is we don't have people working in the offices.

Denver still has a very high rate in for the country of people not working in their offices.

They're working remotely until they're downtown to go to the restaurants, to do the shopping, to go to the museums.

Downtown is not going to make a full comeback, Yeah, we should do our public service announcement.

If you want to go to the Chris Kindle market, which opens this weekend, you can't you at downtown, you have to go over to area Mile High Tree also at the campus area campus.

Yeah.

Okay.

Eric.

Well, both Patty and Elena have covered this issue in more detail.

And followed in more detail than have I in terms of relations between City Council and Mayor Johnston.

There's historically tension between any council and any mayor that sort of goes with the territory.

But it strikes me over the last couple months that this has ratcheted up to a different level of distrust.

And, you know, say what you want about Mike Johnston, and sometimes he gets out ahead over his skis.

But I didn't necessarily anticipate that he would develop that kind of animosity from council directed at him, and quite frankly, just lack of trust as to the numbers he's putting forward.

So the burden is on Johnston.

I think, to rebuild some of that, faith in in the city's numbers and the city's budget.

The soccer stadium is one of the big points of contention here.

The owners of the Denver Summit soccer team are now threatening to go to some other city, negotiate with some other city.

My gut tells me that's a bluff.

My gut tells me that ultimately, they're going to end up in Denver and a deal is going to get done, but it better get done pretty soon, both because of the timeline that the team is on.

And even if they're bluffing, if it doesn't get pretty soon, that bluff might get real.

Yeah.

All right.

Elena.

Yeah.

Let's talk about the coverage you provided this week.

Yeah.

So I wrote a story about how we're seeing a lot of upward momentum downtown this week.

We have, you know, Denver based Abada cutting its ribbon on its new, nearly 100,000 square foot office on 16th Street.

You've got a German fitness company opening its North American headquarters on 17th Street in the LoDo towers, of course, their Civic center park, breaking ground on a major renovation.

We also have you mentioned the residential, conversion of the office building, and then city council also passed the first downtown area plan since 2007, essentially to turn downtown into a playground.

So a lot of a lot of movement down there.

But as Eric mentioned, this power struggle between Denver City Council and the mayor in the last month or so is in, is on full display and seems to only be ratcheting up.

The soccer stadium is the latest example of the city council really flexing its muscle there.

And so, you know, hearing from downtown boosters about how 2026 could really be one for the books based on a lot of the momentum we're seeing right now.

It's going to really depend on collaboration between city Council and the mayor and how they, their own interactions, relate to private partners.

As we saw with the soccer stadium, there are real implications when these two are butting heads.

So we'll see what 2026 shapes out to, to look like.

But I think it's so interesting what Patty said about they're already breaking ground on the Civic Center Park stuff without City Council approval.

Just another reason.

Another like ammo, that city council can use to flex their muscle.

It's the rush, right?

I mean, it's still going to take years anyhow.

Well, this was in the works for years.

I mean, it was approved in late 2020 for the plan.

They're going to reverse the Greek amphitheater.

People are worried about cost but also just get moving.

I mean, I think Johnston wants to get it done before he wins again.

But all the rest of us, if we had a renovation project at our house, we'd wait till we had all the money.

Right?

Christy?

Well, and I think Kyle, that's part of the problem, is that Denver constantly wants to spend more money to fix every problem they have.

And certainly money can fix some problems, but not all of them.

You see other cities where the mayor and city council don't have such animosity, like Aurora.

At least previously, before this last election, when it was a Republican mayor, Republican led council, they actually got along and did a lot of things to benefit the city.

You don't see that going on in Denver, which I think is problematic.

I also think because of all the money and all the grants they want to give out in Denver, the question kind of should be, what is the role of government?

What should we be spending money on?

You see that specifically in the sports arena area, like when you're talking about professional sports teams that in many cases have, you know, millions of dollars wired taxpayers constantly having to fund things and give financial incentives to these teams.

Odd piece of history.

You see Colorado actually Denver being the only city to be awarded the Olympics, but then have it rejected by voters because of the taxpayer cost.

And so I think a lot of this animosity between the council and the mayor is some of them think they're hearing from citizens saying you're spending too much on things that maybe some of these private entities should be funding for themselves.

When it comes to finances, an increase in lottery sales can be considered a loose recession indicator in that people with money stresses might go in and buy lottery tickets.

More often.

Because the cost of a ticket isn't so great when you consider that a winning ticket could be the magic ticket to easing some financial worries.

With that said, this week the Colorado Lottery Commission considered and passed, changing up some lottery rules like a lottery tickets to be sold.

Over the internet.

You could use your cell phone to buy a lottery ticket.

And the big one is that you'd be able to use a credit card now, which hasn't been able to do there 26 states that do allow credit cards.

And it looks like Colorado is going to go that route, too.

Eric.

Yeah, there was a hearing, by the lottery commission on Wednesday this week, a rulemaking hearing.

I think the fix was probably in the lottery Commission wanted to do this.

And, you know, they heard from plenty of opponents, including a significant number of state legislators representing legislative leadership, among others.

For my money, excuse the pun here.

Kyle, there are bad ideas out there, and then there are phenomenally bad ideas.

And this one is a phenomenally bad idea.

Or, to use lottery terms, maybe we'll call it a mega bad idea or a power bad idea or something like that.

idea of using credit cards to gamble, the idea of using your omnipresent phone to get deeper in debt, then the last point is that for a lot of retailers, you know, the idea of just using your phone and doing the, you're the only transaction is buying that ticket.

Those retailers, they depend on those people coming into the store 95% of lottery sales at retailers are accompanied by some other purchase.

A lot of that is also not going to go away.

So in case you missed it, it is a lousy idea.

Yeah.

Businesses are not happy.

But again, the governor is all for it.

Of course some of our lottery proceeds do go to our doors.

And that's what he was saying is the good thing about this.

That's right.

I mean, this really, reflects sort of his libertarian leaning values, you know, should Coloradans be able to spend money how they want to?

Polis and the commission say yes.

The other hand, this bipartisan group of lawmakers are really trying to look out for Coloradans, particularly middle and low income earners, and to prevent them from racking up a ton of debt, which is a huge problem nationwide.

But there is actually an interesting, survey from Consumer Affairs that came out recently that showed the average Coloradan holds a credit card balance of 4720 bucks, which is the 10th most of any state in the country.

So this is clearly, you know, a problem.

And this could, as opponents say, could make it even worse.

We've heard from Senator Jeff Bridges this week who has already pledged to challenge the rule legislatively in 2027, which is the earliest time the legislature can take up this issue because of technicalities.

It will be interesting because that obviously gives about two years or a year and a half for this to sort of play out, because these rules go into effect immediately.

And interestingly, should they, you know, pursue this bill to, reverse course, it could be vetoed by the governor.

But Polis won't be our governor by then.

So it'll be really interesting to see if whoever takes this place wants to pick up this fight.

Okay.

Christie.

the current rules before the change just happened wasn't saying that people couldn't use money.

They had to buy a lottery ticket.

It was actually saying, don't use money you don't have.

Like that's the point of a credit card.

Is is now with the changes, you can go in and say, I don't actually have this money, but I want to leverage money.

I don't have so I think when it's the government doing this, that's not a good idea for government to encourage people to damage their lives.

And we know that's going to be the result of, you know, free, easy access to gambling on your phones, on your credit cards.

It just puts people already struggling with financial issues in a position that the government has no business pushing them into.

And that's how I would interpret this to very much disagree with the governor.

Think that's not a good idea to push the commission in this way.

And there were legislative leaders on both sides saying, let's put a halt on this.

Let's actually think about it.

This is good for our constituents and people.

And I think I just was in the airport last night, talk to someone, met him for the first time, who goes into high schools to try and prevent, high school seniors, usually boys, from getting involved in sports gambling.

And he said every high school he goes into, half of the high school seniors who are boys are already involved in sports gambling on their phone.

So young age, easy access.

This is just going to encourage it more.

And I think it damages society in a way that the government doesn't need to be pushing.

Okay, I'm Patty sports gambling.

That's absolutely right.

I've seen those studies too.

And I want to talk about how the sports gambling, they got a great deal when we approved that because that is not 50% of the take going to the government.

We get a pittance for Colorado's water plan.

And that's it was billed to help Colorado's water plan.

Lord knows Colorado needs a water plan and probably a water club they could use on all the other states in the Colorado River basin.

But so that is a shame, because it is.

People are just gambling so much in sports and it's not coming to this government.

We do have great things to show for the lottery over the years, great outdoors, Colorado, the incredible projects that have been funded.

We haven't really heard of any shortage of money from Great Outdoors Colorado, so I'm not sure why we really needed this.

And then we also have limited stakes gaming, which was passed 30 plus years ago in Cripple Creek, Black Hawk in Central City, which is paid for all these great historic preservation projects.

So some gambling has been great for the state, and there are many more limits on that than we're going to see once the lottery changes.

Okay.

All right.

former Mesa County clerk Tina Peters has received a lot of online support over this last week, along with a request by the federal government to have her moved out of the state prison, where she is in Pueblo and into a federal prison.

It was a little over a year ago when Peters was convicted to nine years on state charges, including felonies, for her actions and claims that the 2020 election results were rigged.

Colorado is not budging.

Helena.

You're right.

They're not, presidents, of course, have no power to pardon, state crimes.

But if Peters was pulled into the federal system that, you know, potentially creates a back door to presidential pardon authority, which is what people are suspect is going on here.

We've heard the Colorado Department of Corrections is reviewing the request, but as you just said, Kyle, the state has made it pretty clear, including Governor Jared Polis, that it has no interest in complying.

All of this raises a ton of questions, because we've heard Trump threaten, quote unquote, harsh measures for the state.

What would those harsh measures look like?

Should the state not comply?

Would that mean more withholding of federal funds, which we've already seen plenty of what it means sending federal law enforcement our way or something else?

And if Peters does move into federal custody, there's also this question of the new precedents that this would set for, other state convictions.

So a lot of unknowns here.

But this Tina Peters story is the story that just keeps on giving.

It's not over yet.

I'm sure we'll be talking about her many more times over on this table.

Christy.

Your thoughts?

Sure.

Well, I was chairman of the current Republican Party when she ran for Secretary of state.

Everyone knows I'm no fan of her or what she did, especially kicking a police officer in the process.

Which she once pulled me in the back room and showed me, like, how she did it.

Very interesting story for another day.

Okay.

But I think I think what this what this illustrates is a problems with the criminal justice system in Colorado.

I'm just going to take a different perspective on it.

And I think, you know, part of the federal request is saying, oh, she's very, very ill.

She's very sick.

It's cruel, unusual punishment to to keep her in a prison.

That's part of the argument.

In Colorado, we release people from prison who are considered permanently mentally incompetent with no possibility of restoration.

But Colorado is holding very firm on.

Let's not release someone who's sick.

another issue is she absolutely committed a crime, was convicted by a jury of her peers.

But she got nine years in prison.

And we have child molesters in Colorado who get out on probation.

We get, repeat felons who get released with far less of a sentence.

So I think that's what some people are reacting to, is just the strong sentence against someone who did not do a publicly violent crime.

Contrast that to how Colorado treats those kind of offenders.

So I actually think there's much bigger issues in Colorado's judicial system that this brings to light.

But I don't think, you know, Polis is going to do anything that President Trump is saying on this, and nor do I think he should.

Well, she did kick a police officer, which is publicly violent, but I could see she'd be a great roommate for Maxwell in federal prison.

So maybe that maybe that's what the Justice Department is thinking about, that she's getting really lonely.

What this shows more than anything else is the Department of Justice does not understand the law because this is not something that they can.

You know, they've already said, we want to get her out.

We want to be able to pardon her.

They can't do that.

Maybe they can move her.

But that's not really something that's going to happen.

But let's also look at Colorado's most famous lawyer in DC right now.

Lindsay Halligan, who's the one who secured the indictment for James Comer.

And now we're finding out she didn't even show the indictment, the final indictment to the grand jury.

So I think the Department of Justice should worry about their own problems.

Over in Washington and on the eastern coast right now.

And leave us alone, okay, Eric.

Well, I'm not close to what Christie said here in terms of maybe some disparate treatment.

From his peers here, if she is truly sick, if she is truly, maybe nearing the end of her life, maybe some leniency might be called for, but that's leniency should be up to state authorities, the federal government.

Our president has no business in here.

It is perfectly in character for him.

I mean, he is made a centerpiece of this second term of his to basically let no election denier pay any price or suffer any punishment.

We saw that on Inauguration Day when he pardoned, I think, 1600, or some number like that January 6th offenders.

There have been other examples of leniency more recently on his part.

So this is all part and parcel of the same thing.

Miss Peters was convicted as there's a point that by jury of her peers of serious offenses.

This is not the federal government's job.

And I think Donald Trump ought to have enough on his plate without worrying about this.

But, my God, this is always at the top of his list.

Historic drug seizures were announced in Colorado this week.

There's the case of the 700 pounds of methamphetamine found hidden in boxes of produce.

Days before that, we learned of the largest single seizure of fentanyl in Colorado and Highlands Ranch in a storage unit.

Some 1.7 million pills were discovered, which look like legit prescription pills, but mixed into them are awful, very strong doses of fentanyl.

Christie, the number one cause of death from 18 to 45 year olds in Colorado is fentanyl overdoses.

Yeah, which is absolutely tragic.

Advance Colorado, who I work for, we're turning in over 200,000 signatures today for a ballot measure that actually really help solve this issue and crisis of fentanyl in Colorado.

Right now, if you are a dealer who sells fentanyl, you can get right back out on probation.

You don't have to have jail time.

What our ballot measure would do is mandate jail time for all drug dealers, no matter what amount of fentanyl you are selling and you were peddling on the streets, you will go to jail if this measure passes.

If voters pass it in 2026, that's when it would appear on the ballot.

On the other side, it also has a compassionate angle for users and says, if you are a low level user, struggling with addiction, struggling with substance use here in Colorado, you can get a court mandated treatment option, which would reduce your charge to a misdemeanor.

our measure basically gives justice to drug dealers, answers the problem that these families have faced for years, where dealers lie to their children about the pill that they're taking, their children thought they were taking a Xanax, they thought they were taking oxycodone, they don't know they're taking fentanyl.

And the dealers in these cases never served jail time.

already polling is very, very good.

This is what people want in Colorado a fix to one of our worst issues fentanyl pouring over our borders, coming into our streets and killing our kids.

November of next year.

Yes, 2026.

Assuming that signatures are certified, we turned in well over the required number, so they should be okay.

All right.

Patty, it's fascinating to just figure out who forgot they had a lot of fentanyl in our Highlands Ranch storage unit, the mean streets of Highlands Ranch.

So there's so much more in this incredible, record breaking, drug seizure that you just really wonder.

And yes, hiding it and produce is also interesting, but I think what people will be in favor of this, I think the odds are good it will pass.

But the question is the low, low, low level.

So someone has pills.

They don't they may not know they're fentanyl.

They share them with the friends.

And that's the border line.

When is it dealing?

When is it just stupid sharing.

And I think that is what people will be wondering how they can deal with it.

They want dealers off the streets, but they don't want people who just had some pills, shared them with friends, maybe sold them for that much to be going to jail forever to on a criminal charge.

Eric, you thought I thought the story out of Highlands Ranch was fascinating?

I mean, just the size of this stuff instead was the sixth largest fentanyl bust ever in the nation.

And as Patty says, the mean streets of Highlands Ranch.

I think that's a new reality TV show or not.

It should be.

It shows that the drugs are everywhere.

It does show that drugs are everywhere.

A Kyle, which is exactly the point of this, I mean, fentanyl, we've had other drug scourges in the country and it just keeps getting ratcheted up.

And fentanyl is such a ratchet up from all the awful stuff, that was there before.

I mean, Christy knows these stories, these individual stories inside now we know we know two of them in our family.

I mean, the next door neighbor where we live up in the mountains, died.

Thought he was going to Denver for one last high.

Got, you know, something laced with fentanyl was dead.

Six law enforcement vehicles showing up into our quiet little neighborhood, and they're for hours and hours.

And ultimately, the coroner shows up.

We just, traveled.

And one of the people in our group had lost a son, six years ago.

Thought he was taking a Xanax.

It was laced with fentanyl.

These stories abound.

I don't think there's a person in Colorado who, if they haven't been directly touched by them, they haven't been touched at one level of distance, by them.

And I would anticipate that this ballot issue will pass and pass, rather overwhelmingly.

Well, you know, when the fentanyl seizure was announced, it was almost immediately politicized, which was interesting to watch.

We saw Gabe Evans and Ann Colter on social media chimed in, basically bashing Colorado for what they see as soft on crime policies that, of course, prompted a clap back from Governor Polis, who said, you know, this seizure wouldn't have happened without Colorado authorities sort of helping lead the way.

behind the scenes of all of this is the fact that drug traffickers really exploit Colorado for its geographic location.

And we're seeing how that plays out.

You mentioned the terrible overdose stats, of Colorado and overdose deaths nationwide are really bad.

So I think the advanced Colorado ballot measure, assuming it does make the ballot, is going to draw huge interest from voters, especially all of the people who have been touched by this issue.

And the legislature did talk about briefly last session, right, about making it tighter.

The more the the stiffer penalties.

Sure.

There was, but a bill sponsored by Senator Byron Pelton, Senator Dylan Roberts voted for it.

That would have done almost exactly what our ballot measure would do treatment mandated options, higher penalties for dealers, but it dies in committee.

That's the problem is, and it's always killed on party line votes.

So now the people will be deciding.

Yes exactly.

And cleaning their storage units and cleaning your storage units and.

Yes.

Okay.

Let's go around the table and talk about some of the highs and the lows that we've experienced this week.

I will start with Patty on a low note.

What was the discussion before this show?

But the viral video of the Denver health inspector who poured the bleach on the taco taco stand.

Ingredients.

What people need to know is that these people had broken the law numerous times, not just in Denver, but in other municipalities where they'd been taking the cart.

They'd been warned many times, it's not that hard to get a license if you follow the rules.

They didn't follow the rules.

Denver got a black eye for no good reason, because they did exactly the right thing to pour bleach on that food so that no one would find it in a dumpster and take it.

And good for the Department of Health, which immediately responded to a reporter's questions.

Okay, Eric below.

Well, speaking of bleach, our president for whitewashing, his guest at the white House, the the prince from Saudi Arabia, with this fabulous quote of things happened when a reporter, asked about the assassination, the dismemberment of the journalist Jamal Khashoggi, and actually, the Saudi Arabian prince handled the question reasonably well, as well as that question can be handled.

But the president needed to jump in with this notion of things happen.

What a what a lame what a lame quote.

And what a lame excuse.

Nina Denver lost a jazz legend and a civil rights leader this week, pronounced Stein.

He passed away at the age of 84 and will be very deeply missed.

Definitely for be.

Congressman Crow is my letter this week.

He consistently criticizes the president and military members for taking out the Venezuelan boats that are carrying drugs and cartels to America.

And when he is questioned in push back berthing of the column, he doesn't have good answers, and he just continues to tell military members that they don't have to obey orders.

Okay.

All right.

Let's talk about something good.

Patty.

Many, many reasons to go downtown this weekend.

It is not a scary place.

That's Highlands Ranch, but the Tivoli, the Tivoli campus will have the mile high drone shows overhead.

It will have the mile high Tree City and county building is still getting lit, even though there is construction in the Civic Center.

Lots of great places to go downtown just needs people there.

Yes, okay.

All right.

Quick to for, my daughter, who has a 36th birthday happy birthday.

Katrina.

More substantively, Kyle Clark was right about Lauren Boebert.

That even somebody who is frequently wrong and frequently the target of criticism deserves praise when she does the right thing.

She did the right thing.

In standing up to Donald Trump's pressure on the Epstein files.

This might be a week old now, but I want to chime in as well.

Good for you, Lauren Boebert.

All right.

And happy birthday, Katrina.

All right.

We're going to be spending a little less this Thanksgiving.

There's a new American Farm Bureau Federation survey that found, Thanksgiving feasts are down 5% from last year.

So that's something to be thankful for this Thanksgiving.

Okay.

All right, I think local law enforcement is my high.

Like with the busts that happened this week.

And Highlands Ranch and in Lakewood.

It's really despite the arguments between, you know, national figures and the governor.

It's really local law enforcement on the ground that's doing the hard work, that's making this happen, that's doing the investigations.

You know, DEA and the state often gets a lot of credit, but it's really local law enforcement.

The Douglas County Sheriff's Office in particular, that made all of this happen.

Okay.

Good.

Good.

Mentioned, as we prepare for Thanksgiving week, let me express once again my gratitude to everyone who engages with Colorado inside Out.

Our insiders are behind the scenes crew.

Our station leadership, and all of you who watch and support PBS 12 this year.

Independent media really all sorts of different media is challenged in new ways, but the commitment shown to PBS 12 by individuals and organizations continues to sustain programs like CIO, where we strive to offer thoughtful and civil discussion for a range of viewpoints.

Our show reaches audiences over broadcast online, as a podcast, and on radio stations and TV access stations across the state.

We are here because of you and we are here for you, Colorado.

So thank you to everyone who believes in the importance of independent public media.

I am Kyle Dyer.

I will see you next week.

So grab your warm turkey sandwiches and join us next Friday and have a Happy Thanksgiving.

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