>> Reilly: TONIGHT ON "GREATER BOSTON," I'M ADAM REILLY IN FOR JIM BRAUDE.

ANOTHER PANDEMIC HOLIDAY SEASON IS UPON US, BUT WHILE WE'RE IN A MUCH BETTER SPOT THAN WE WERE A YEAR AGO-- WITH NOT JUST VACCINES, BUT BOOSTERS AVAILABLE FOR MOST AMERICANS-- THERE'S NEW CAUSE FOR CAUTION AS WELL AS CELEBRATION HEADING INTO THANKSGIVING.

SO WHAT DO WE ALL HAVE TO DO TO CELEBRATE SAFELY?

AND ARE WE AS PROTECTED AS WE THINK WE ARE, IF WE HAVEN'T GOTTEN THAT BOOST?

PLUS, FOR MANY PEOPLE, MENTAL HEALTH HAS A TAKEN A HIT OVER THE PAST YEAR AND A HALF.

NOW, THERE'S A PUSH ON BEACON HILL TO MAKE IT EASIER AND CHEAPER TO CARE FOR YOUR MIND AS WELL AS YOUR BODY.

WE'LL BREAK IT DOWN AHEAD.

♪ ♪ ♪ FOR EVERYONE WHO'D RATHER CELEBRATE THE HOLIDAYS IN PERSON THAN BY ZOOM, THIS YEAR IS LOOKING A LOT MORE PROMISING THAN LAST YEAR.

FOR ONE THING, VACCINES THAT DRAMATICALLY REDUCE THE RISKS FROM COVID INFECTION HAVE BEEN WIDELY AVAILABLE FOR MONTHS.

AND FORTUNATELY, HERE IN MASSACHUSETTS, PEOPLE ARE GETTING THEIR SHOTS, WITH ABOUT 70% OF RESIDENTS FULLY VACCINATED, ACCORDING TO THE LATEST STATE DATA.

STILL, IF YOU THINK IT'S TIME FOR BUSINESS AS USUAL THIS THANKSGIVING, YOU MIGHT WANT TO THINK AGAIN.

CASES HAVE BEEN RISING SINCE HALLOWEEN.

HOSPITALIZATIONS ARE TICKING UP, TOO.

AND IF YOU WANT TO BE AS PROTECTED AS POSSIBLE, ACCORDING TO THE NATION'S TOP HEALTHCARE ADVISOR, THAT NOW MEANS GETTING THE ADDITIONAL BOOSTER SHOT.

>> LET'S MAKE IT CLEAR.

WE KNOW THEY'RE SAFE AND WE KNOW THEY'RE HIGHLY EFFECTIVE IN BRINGING VERY, VERY HIGH UP THE OPTIMIZATION OF YOUR PROTECTION.

SO JUST GO AHEAD AND GET BOOSTED.

>> Reilly: OF COURSE, BOOSTERS JUST BECAME WIDELY AVAILABLE FOR MOST OF US.

AND EVEN PEOPLE WHO GET ONE TODAY WON'T SEE A HUGE BENEFIT IN TIME FOR THURSDAY.

AS FOR THOSE WHO'VE HAD WEEKS TO UP THEIR IMMUNITY, MANY JUST HAVEN'T.

AMONG THOSE 65 AND OLDER WHO ARE FULLY VACCINATED-- AND WHO'VE BEEN ELIGIBLE FOR A BOOSTER FOR NEARLY TWO MONTHS NOW-- LESS THAN HALF HAVE GOTTEN ONE, EVEN AS THAT AGE GROUP IS FUELING A RISE IN COVID HOSPITALIZATIONS ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

THROW IN THE FACT THAT NEARLY A THIRD OF PEOPLE IN MASSACHUSETTS STILL HAVEN'T FULLY GOTTEN EVEN THAT FIRST ROUND OF PROTECTION.

AND IT'S CLEAR THAT, DESPITE ALL THE PROGRESS WE'VE MADE SINCE THE LAST HOLIDAY SEASON, THERE'S STILL PLENTY OF RISK OUT THERE TO RECKON WITH.

SO WHAT'S THE BEST WAY TO REDUCE IT WHEN WE CELEBRATE WITH FRIENDS AND FAMILY THIS WEEK?

AND MOVING FORWARD, HOW HARD WILL IT BE TO SELL THE PUBLIC AS A WHOLE ON THIS ROUND OF BOOSTERS AND THE POSSIBILITY OF MORE TO FOLLOW?

JOINING ME TO DISCUSS ARE DR. SABRINA ASSOUMOU, AN ASSISTANT PROFESSOR OF MEDICINE AT BOSTON UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF MEDICINE, AND ATTENDING INFECTIOUS DISEASE PHYSICIAN AT BOSTON MEDICAL CENTER; AND DR. JOIA MUKHERJEE, CHIEF MEDICAL OFFICER OF THE NON-PROFIT PARTNERS IN HEALTH AND A PROFESSOR OF GLOBAL HEALTH AT HARVARD MEDICAL SCHOOL.

pTHANK YOU BOTH FOR BEING HERE.

SABRINA, LET ME START WITH YOU.

FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE GOING TO BE GATHERING WITH FRIENDS AND SYSTEM IN CLOSER QUARTERS THAN THEY'RE USED TO, MAYBE MEETING WITH PEOPLE THEY HAVEN'T SEEN IN A LITTLE WHILE, WHAT WOULD YOU SUGGEST WHEN IT COMES TO THINGS WE CAN DO TO MINIMIZE OR MITIGATE OUR RISKS AND THINGS WE SHOULD NOT DO IF WE WANT TO BE SAFER RATHER THAN LESS SAFE?

>> YEAH I KNOW, THIS IS AN IMPORTANT QUESTION THAT EVERYONE HAS NOW.

MY RECOMMENDATION IS, HAVE A LAYERED APPROACH.

AND THE BEST PROTECTION THAT YOU CAN HAVE RIGHT NOW IS TO BE VACCINATED.

SO IF YOU HAVEN'T BEEN VACCINATED YET, GO AHEAD AND GET VACCINATED.

AND IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS, TALK TO YOUR HEALTH CARE PROFESSIONALS THAT YOU CAN HAVE YOUR QUESTIONS ANSWERED.

IF YOU ALREADY HAVE BEEN VACCINATED AND YOU ARE ELIGIBLE FOR A BEASTER PLEASE GO AHEAD AND GET IT.

THIS VACCINATION IS THE NUMBER ONE FIRST LAYER THAT WE COULD USE TO PROTECT OURSELVES.

THEN THERE'S TESTING.

YOU KNOW ON THE DAY OF THANKSGIVING WE HAVE THESE RAPID TESTS THAT ARE NOW AVAILABLE, THEY WORK VERY WELL.

WHAT THEY DO TELL SU ARE YOU INFECTIOUS RIGHT NOW?

IF YOU ARE AT A GATHERING THIS IS A GOOD WAY TO PROTECT YOURSELF AND PROTECT LOVED ONES.

ANOTHER THING WE LEARN ABOUT IS IMPROVING VENTILATION.

IT IS ACCOMMODATE HEIER BUT YOU COULD PROBABLY OPEN WINDOWS TO BRING IN FRESH AIR AND THAT'S GOING TO IMPROVE THINGS AND MAKE IT LESS LIKELY TO GETN.

>> Reilly: IT'S GOING TO BE 55 AND SUNNY ON THURSDAY.

GO AHEAD SORRY TO INTERRUPT YOU.

>> THE ONE THING TO BE IMPORTANT, NOT NECESSARILY ON THE GATHERING YOU'LL HAVE ON THURSDAY, TOWARD THE HOLIDAY SEASON, INDOORS, WEAR A MASK.

THIS IS THE BEST WAY WE CAN PROTECT THE COMMUNITY.

>> Reilly: JOIA IS YOUR LIST OF DO'S AND DON'T'S COMPARABLE TO SABRINA'S OR WOULD YOU ADD TO ANYTHING SHE MIGHT HAVE MENTIONED?

>> NO, I THINK SHE SAID IT PERFECTLY.

I WOULD ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO KEEP THE GATHERINGS A LITTLE SMALLER AND HAVE AN HONEST DISCUSSION WITH YOUR FAMILY AND LOVED ONES ABOUT WHO'S BEEN VACCINATED AND WHO'S NOT.

WE HAVE TO BE IN A PLACE WHERE WE'RE COMFORTABLE SAYING I'M NOT GOING TO GATHER WITH THIS BETTER THAN PERSON OR MY FAMILY OR MY FRIEND THEY'VE NOT BEEN VACCINATED, INDOORS BECAUSE I HAVE AN IMMUNO-SUPPRESSED PERSON IN MY FAMILY.

JUST HAVING A CONVERSATION IN ADVANCE OF WHAT TO EXPECT IS ALSO A HELPFUL THING.

>> Reilly: I'M GLAD YOU SAID THAT.

WE ASKED PEOPLE ON TWITTER WHAT THEIR PROTOCOL WAS GOING TO BE.

ONE PERSON SAID THE PROTOCOL, ACTUALLY DECIDING NOT TO INCLUDE A GUEST.

IMMULSION MIKE SET: >> "WE'RE HOSTING OUR DAUGHTER'S FAMILY AND A YOUNG COUPLE THEIR AGE ALONG WITH A COLLEGE AGE BROTHER.

WE'RE BOOSTED, EVERYONE'S VAXXED, INCLUDING THE FIVE-YEAR-OLD WHO GOT JABBED AT THE MOST YESTERDAY.

SADLY, A FIXTURE AT OUR TABLE, OUR BEST MAN, IS A SKEPTIC, WON'T GET VAXXED, SO HE'S OUT."

WE ALSO HEARD FROM VAL FREA, SHE HAS A COUPLE OF HIGH RISK PEOPLE IN HER FAMILY.

>> JUST MY IMMEDIATE FAMILY, TWINS GOT THEIR FIRST SHOTS TODAY, AND SO, ALL FOUR OF US WILL STAY MASKED UNTIL WE DO RAPID TESTS SINCE WE ALL GO TO WORK OR SCHOOL IN PERSON.

SO TWO FULLY VACCINATED ADULTS AND TWO HALF VACCINATED MINORS, STARTING WEDNESDAY EVENING.

SABRINA YOU MENTIONED WHERE WE'RE AT IN TERMS OF CASE COUNTS.

I WANT TO JUST PULL UP THE LATEST VISUALIZATION OF CASE COUNTS HERE IN MASSACHUSETTS BECAUSE IT IS WORTH DRIVING HOME TO PEOPLE THAT WE ARE ACTUALLY IN A PRETTY SIMILAR SPOT TO WHERE WE WERE ABOUT A YEAR AGO.

WE HAVE CASES STEADILY RISING, SINCE ABOUT HALLOWEEN.

LITTLE BIT OF A DROPOFF IN THE LAST MAYBE ONE OR TWO DAYS.

BUT IT LOOKS LIKE IT COULD BE THE BEGINNING OF A TREND LINE VERY SIMILAR TO THE ONE WE SAW START AROUND THANKSGIVING LAST NOVEMBER AND THEN CONTINUE INTO JANUARY.

HOW WORRISOME IS THAT TREND LINE TO YOU, GIVEN ALL THE GAINS THAT WE'VE MADE IN TERMS OF BEING ABLE TO PROTECT OURSELVES?

HOW CAREFUL SHOULD PEOPLE BE CONCERNING WHAT WEAVER SEEING?

>> EVERYONE NEEDS TO BE VIGILANT.

THIS IS THE TIME WE NEED TO TAKE EXTRA PRECAUTION AND FOLLOW THE TREND LINE YOU'RE SEEING.

WOULD I LIKE TO MAKE ONE COMMENT REGARDING TO WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.

>> Reilly: POLICE.

>> WE HAVE THE SLUICE TO -- TO GET US OUT OF THIS PANDEMIC, IT'S CALLED VACCINATION.

WHEN I WOKE UP IN THE MORNING AND I HEARD THAT WE HAVE A VACCINE THAT WAS 95% EFFECTIVE, THAT WAS -- I NEVER EVEN THOUGHT WE WOULD GET THERE.

WHAT I WANT TO DO IS ENCOURAGE PEOPLE, ESPECIALLY IN MMPS.

BECAUSE I THINK IN MASSACHUSETTS WE'VE DONE A REALLY GOOD JOB OF VACCINATING PEOPLE.

WE ARE ENTERING A FREE CARE USE MOMENT.

WE NEED TO PAY ATTENTION, WE NEED TO BE CAREFUL BUT WE HAVE A VACCINATION AND IS A WAY OUT OF THIS PANDEMIC.

>> Reilly: I'M GLAD YOU SED THAT, I HAVE A MATTER OF BEING A DRAMA QUEEN AND I APPRECIATE THAT PROTECTORRIVE.

JOIA, THE INCREASED USE OF BOOSTERS OR INCREASED ADVICE THAT WE USE BOOSTERS, THE FACT THAT THEY'RE NOW AVAILABLE TO MOST OF US, ARE WE HEADING INTO A MOMENT WHICH MEANS FULLY VAXED, IS BEING FULLY VAXED GOING TO MEAN IN THE MONTHS TO COME HAVING GOTTEN THE BEGINNING DOSE OR DOSES, AND THEN WHATEVER BOOSTER YOU ARE ELIGIBLE FOR, AT THAT POINT IN TIME?

>> YOU KNOW, I THINK IT PROBABLY IS.

WE DON'T KNOW THE FUTURE OBVIOUSLY, BUT WE DO KNOW THAT VACVACCINES, THE IMMUNITY ONE GETS WANE OVER TIME AND WE HAVE SEEN THIS WANING IN THE PERIOD IN WHICH PEOPLE HAVE BEEN VACCINATED.

I THINK IT'S A LITTLE COMPLICATED AND IT SHOULD BE EXPLAINED FOR YOUR AUDIENCE, THAT U.C.

EVERYBODY NOW, OVER -- THAT, YOU KNOW, EVERYBODY NOW OVER 18 MAY GET A BOOSTER.

PARTICULARLY THOUGH I WANT TO EMPHASIZE PEOPLE WHO GOT THE ONE SHOT J & J VACCINE SHOULD GET WHAT'S CONSIDERED A BOOSTER BUT EVEN IF THEY'VE HAD IT ONLY TWO MONTHS AGO.

SO I THINK IT'S JUST REALLY IMPORTANT FOR PEOPLE WHO GHOAT GOT J & J SO UNDERSTAND THAT THIS SECOND DOSE, IT COULD BE PFIZER, IT COULD BE MODERNA, IT DOESN'T MERIT, BUT IT'S VERY, VERY IMPORTANT BECAUSE THOSE ARE THE PEOPLE WITH THE LEAST IMMUNITY PROBABLY, AND OF COURSE WE FIRST OPEN THIS UP TO ELDERLY PEOPLE AND PEOPLE WITH PREEXISTING CONDITIONS BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT THE REST OF US WON'T GET SOME PROTECTION FROM THE BOOSTER AND I WOULD ENCOURAGE AND I DO THINK THAT WE WILL NEED SERIAL VACCINATIONS.

MUCH LIKE WE DO THE INFLUENZA EVERY YEAR.

AND JUST WANT TO GO BACK TO ONE THING THAT SABRINA SAID, TOTALLY AGREE THAT WE'RE NOT IN THE SAME PLACE AS WE WERE LAST TIME.

IN PART, BECAUSE OF SEVERITY.

SO EVEN THOUGH THERE IS TRANSMISSION GOING ON, WHAT WE SEE IS THE PEOPLE WHO ARE VACCINATED ARE NOT GETTING AS SICK.

THEY'RE NOT IN THE HOSPITALS.

OUR HOSPITALS IN MASSACHUSETTS ARE NOT OVERWHELMED IN THE SAME WAY.

SO VACCINES WORK.

AND WE'VE SAID FROM THE GINK, NO MIXED MESSAGE AT ALL.

YOU MAY STILL HAVE SOME TRANSMISSIBILTY BUT IT PROTECTS YOU FROM GETTING VERY SICK.

THE WORRISOME THING IN THE WINTER FOR ANY RESPIRATORY VIRUS IS THE DRY AIR, IS THE WINTER, RIGHT?

ON TOM OF THAT BECAUSE YOUR MUCOUS MEMBRANES DON'T PROCESS THE AIR VERY QUICKLY WHEN THE AIR IS VERY DRY.

BUT THEN YOU ADD IN THE OTHER RESPIRATORY INFECTIONS LIKE INFLUENZA, DIFFERENT VIRUSES TOGETHER CAN BE TOUCH.

SO I THINK MASK BEING IS STILL VERY IMPORTANT.

-- MARKING IS STILL VERY IMPORTANT.

ALSO TO PROTECT YOU AGAINST THE -- MASKING IS VERY IMPORTANT.

TO PROTECT YOU AGAINST THE OTHER VIRUSES THIS TIME OF YEAR.

>> Reilly: TELL ME IF I'VE GOT THIS RIGHT.

YOU MENTIONED TWO MONTHS FOR THE SINGLE DOSE J EX J YOU SHOULD GET THE MODERNA OR PFIZER IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN, AND THEN I GOT MODERNA, I STILL NEED THE BOOSTER, I SHOULD GET THE MODERNA OR THE PFIZER?

>> YOU COULD GET EITHER THE MODERNA OR THE PFIZER.

INITIALLY THEY WERE SAYING ACTUALLY EIGHT MONTHS AFTER YOUR LAST DOSE.

I HAVEN'T SEEN THAT THAT HAS CHANGED BUT I THINK WE'RE JUST LOOSENING UP IN GENERAL ON BOOSTERS.

SO I THINK THE IDEA IS WHATEVER YOU GET, YOU CAN GET JUST AS WE DID WITH THE ROLL-OUT OF THE INITIAL VACCINE.

THEY ALL PROVIDE EXCELLENT PROTECTION AND THERE'S NO INTERACTION BETWEEN THEM.

SO FOR EXAMPLE, I RECEIVED MODERNA IN MY FIRST TWO VACCINATIONS AND THEN EIGHT MONTHS LATER WAS GIVEN PFIZER BY THE HOSPITAL I WORK IN.

SO, YOU KNOW, THAT YOU CAN MIX AND MATCH AS THEY SAY.

>> Reilly: THANK YOU FOR CLARIFYING THAT.

AND I WAS TRYING TO READ UP ON THIS IN PART BECAUSE I NEED TO GO GET MY SHOT AND I THINK THAT THERE IS A LOT OF UNCLEAR INFORMATION OUT THERE INCLUDING WHAT I SAID RIGHT BEFORE YOU PROVIDED CLARITY.

SABRINA, I WANT TO GO BACK TO YOU FOR A SECOND.

JOIA TALKED ABOUT HOW THIS COULD BECOME A REGULAR THING AKIN TO GETTING HOPEFULLY YOUR ANNUAL FLU SHOT, MAYBE OTHER ROUTINE VACCINATIONS.

I'M WONDERING HOW TOUGH A SELL THAT IS GOING TO BE FOR PEOPLE.

THERE WAS A POLL TAKEN RECENTLY WHICH LOOKED AT HOW LIKELY PEOPLE WHO GOT THEIR FULL DOSE, QUOTE UNQUOTE FULLY VACCINATED WOULD BE TO GET THEIR BOOST ESHER SHOT.

12% SAID THEY PROBABLY WOULDN'T AND 9% SAID THEY DEFINITELY WOULDN'T.

AGAIN THAT WAS PEOPLE WHO WERE ALREADY QUOTE UNQUOTE FULLY VAXED.

IF WE'RE BEING ASKED TO DO THIS, AMERICAN NOT ANNUALLY BUT POTENTIALLY SEMI ANNUALLY, ARE PEOPLE GOING TO BE WILLING TO DO THIS?

AND IF THEY'RE NOT, HOW MUCH OF A PROBLEM MIGHT IT CREATE MOVING FORWARD?

>> THERE IS A VERY IMPORTANT POINT.

I THINK ONE THING THAT'S BEEN REALLY TOUGH WITH THIS PANDEMIC IS THAT WE'RE TRYING TO QUAY THE DIEHL AS IT'S COMING OUT AND WE'RE TRYING TO CRAFT A CLEAR PUBLIC HEALTH MESSAGE WHICH IS VERY HARD.

THAT'S WHY THEY CHANCED THE BOOSTER MECHANISM.

WHEN YOU HAVE TOO -- MESSAGE.

HAVING A CLEAR PUBLIC HEALTH MESSAGE IS SORT OF THE WAY TO GO ESPECIALLY DURING A PANDEMIC.

I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE HARD BUT I'M A LITTLE HOPEFUL.

I AM A LITTLE HOPEFUL THAT WE MAY NOT NEED THE BOOSTERS AS REGULARLY AND AS OFTEN.

THE REASON I'M SAYING THIS IS THAT WHEN WE DID DISCOVER AS WE ARE LOOKING AT THE DATA THAT ARE COMING OUT IS WHEN YOU GIVE THE IRM MOOUN SYSTEM SIX MONTHS TO MATURE YOU ACTUALLY GET A BETTER RESPONSE.

AND I'M HOPING THAT IT'S GOING TO BE A LITTLE MORE LONG LASTING THAT IT'S GOING TO BE ABETTER SELL FOR PEOPLE THAT MAYBE AFTER TWO OR THREE YEARS THAT UNIQUENESS SHOT, SO I'M HOPING THAT WE'LL CONTINUE TO GET MORE DATA AND THAT WE MAY NOT HAVE TO DO THIS AS FREQUENTLY JUST BECAUSE THEY'LL BE BETTER PROTECTED IF THEY GET THAT INITIAL ONE THAT WE'RE RECOMMENDING RIGHT NOW.

>> Reilly: THAT'S REALLY ENCOURAGING.

JOIA I HEAR YOU AGREEING WITH SABRINA.

>> IT'S IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER THAT THE TERRIBLE PANDEMIC WE ARE IN WAS CAUSED BY A NOVEL VIRUS.

THE REASON WE CALL IT NOVEL IS IT'S NOVEL IN HUMANS, THAT PARTICULAR CORONAVIRUS.

THE REASON INFLUENZA IS SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT EVERY YEAR, IT'S NOT CONSIDERED NOVEL IS WE HAVE MEMORY IN OUR IMMUNE SYSTEM.

EVEN THOUGH PEOPLE AREN'T VACCINATED THERE IS SUMSOME MEMORY THERE.

WE ENCOURAGE AS INFECTIOUS DISEASE DOCTORS BOTH MUCH US, TO -- BOTH OF US TO ALWAYS GET THE FLU VIRUS.

THE SHIFT SABRINA IS TALKING ABOUT IS GOING WHEN WE FINALLY GET OUT OF THIS GOING FROM A NOVEL VIRUS TO ONE WHICH PEOPLE HAVE BEEN EXPOSED EITHER THROUGH INFECTION OR THROUGH VACCINATION AND IT SORT OF INCURS THIS MEMORY RESPONSE.

AND I JUST DO WANT TO BRIEFLY CLARIFY THAT I CHECKED WHILE YOU WERE ASKING YOUR NEXT QUESTION IT IS SIX MONTHS, NOT EIGHT FOR THE BOOSTER.

IT WAS EIGHT INITIALLY NOW SIX MONTHS.

YOU CAN GET ANY SHOT, TWO MONTHS FOR THE J & J.

>> Reilly: THAT IS GREAT, I LOVE THE REALTIME FACT CHECK.

SABRINA, JOIA, THANKS, I APPRECIATE IT.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING US ON.

>> THANK YOU.

>> Reilly: IT'S BEEN CALLED THE OTHER PANDEMIC.

WHILE COVID-19 HAS TAKEN A CLEAR PHYSICAL TOLL ON TENS OF MILLIONS, IT'S ALSO EXACERBATED THE MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES OF TENS OF MILLIONS MORE.

IN FACT, A C.D.C.

STUDY FOUND NEARLY A QUARTER OF ADULTS REPORTED HAVING A DEPRESSIVE DISORDER IN JUNE OF LAST YEAR, COMPARED TO 6.5 PERCENT IN THE SAME PERIOD IN 2019.

YET MENTAL HEALTH CARE TOO OFTEN TAKES A BACKSEAT TO PHYSICAL HEALTH CONCERNS.

BUT LAWMAKERS IN MASSACHUSETTS ARE LOOKING TO CHANGE THAT.

LAST WEEK, THE STATE SENATE UNANIMOUSLY APPROVED A BILL THAT WOULD GUARANTEE ALL STATE RESIDENTS ARE ELIGIBLE FOR FREE ANNUAL MENTAL HEALTH WELLNESS EXAMS, TREATING THEM JUST LIKE OUR YEARLY PHYSICAL EXAMS.

IT WOULD ALSO CREATE AN ONLINE PORTAL TO SMOOTH THE TRANSITION FROM EMERGENCY TO LONG-TERM CARE, ESTABLISH A PANEL TO RESOLVE BARRIERS TO CARING FOR CHILDREN WITH COMPLEX BEHAVIORAL HEALTH ISSUES AND DEDICATE $122 MILLION TO RECRUIT AND RETAIN NEARLY 2,000 BEHAVIORAL PROFESSIONALS.

JOINING ME TO TALK IT THROUGH ARE SENATOR JULIAN CYR, CHAIR OF THE JOINT COMMITTEE ON MENTAL HEALTH, SUBSTANCE USE AND RECOVERY; AND THE MAN BEHIND THIS BILL, AND DR. CHARMAIN JACKMAN, A PSYCHOLOGIST, AND THE FOUNDER AND C.E.O.

OF INNOPSYCH INC., AN ORGANIZATION THAT AIMS TO END RACIAL DISPARITIES IN MENTAL HEALTH.

THANK YOU BOTH FOR BEING HERE.

>> THANK YOU.

>> Reilly: JULIAN LET ME START WITH YOU.

THERE ARE A BUNCH OF PROVISIONS IN THIS, I'D LIKE TO TALK ABOUT A FEW MORE.

FIRST CAN YOU EXPLAIN TO PEOPLE WHO MIGHT NOT BE FAMILIAR WITH THE CONCEPT WHAT MENTAL HEALTH PARITY MEANS?

BECAUSE THAT IS THE DRIVING FORCE AS I READ IT BEHIND THIS LEGISLATION.

WHAT IS THE IDEA OF MENTAL HEALTH PARITY?

>> SO THE BROADER IDEA HERE IS THAT MENTAL HEALTH CARE SHOULD BE TREATED JUST LIKE PHYSICAL HEALTH CARE.

AND WHEN YOU LOOK AT INDIVIDUAL PEOPLE'S EXPERIENCE, WHEN YOU LOOK A OUTCOMES, WHEN YOU LOOK AT REIMBURSEMENT RATES, WHEN YOU LOOK AT INEQUITY MEASURES RIGHT, YOU CONTINUE TO SEE A SIGNIFICANT GAP IN THE CARE THAT'S PROVIDED FOR MENTAL HEALTH.

AND THAT IS A GAP EVEN THOUGH WE'VE HAD LAWS ON THE BOOKS FOR QUITE SOME TIME AROUND PARITY.

PARITY FOR MENTAL HEALTH AND INSURANCE, PARITY IS RELATED TO THE PROCESS IN WHICH INSURANCE BENEFITS ARE HE DETERMINED.

THERE CONTINUES TO BE PERSISTENT GAP EVEN THOUGH WE'VE HAD A LOSS ON THE BOOKS.

WHAT THIS IS ABOUT IS ACTUALLY TRANSFORMING WHAT MENTAL HEALTH CHARACTER AND SERVICES LOOK LIKE IN MASSACHUSETTS.

AND WE'RE REALLY TRYING TO SHED OLDER DATED WAYS OF THINKING ABOUT MENTAL HEALTH AND MAKE SURE WE'RE POSITIONING MENTAL HEALTH SO THAT PEOPLE CAN GET THE CARE THEY NEED WHEN THEY NEED IT.

SO WE DO THAT VIA INSURANCE REFORMS, DO THAT THROUGH FURTHER ENFORCEMENT OF PARITY, BUT INVESTMENT IN OUR WORKFORCE, OPENING UP ACCESS AND THIS IS SOMETHING WE'VE BEEN KEEPING AT FOR A LONG TIME.

SO WE TOOK UP AND PASSED A VERSION OF THIS BILL JUST BEFORE THE PANDEMIC IN FEBRUARY 2020.

WE'RE COMING BACK AT IT NOW AND WE'RE REALLY GOING TO KEEP AT THIS UNTIL WE CAN ACHIEVE A COMMONWEALTH FOR PEOPLE TO GET THE MENTAL HEALTH CARE WHEN THEY NEED IT.

>> Reilly: YOU MENTIONED A COUPLE THAT CAUGHT MY EYE, CHANGING THE WAY THAT INMATES IN CORRECTIONAL FACILITIES WHO MAY BE HAVING MENTAL HEALTH TROUBLES ARE TREATED.

THEY MAY BE ABLE TO GET CARE IF THIS PASS HE ON DMH FACILITY, IN THE CORRECTIONAL FACILITY WHERE THEY HAPPEN TO BE.

ALSO I WAS INTERESTED TO SEE THAT THERE WAS SOME PREVENTATIVE TREATMENT OF OR EXAMINATION OF SUICIDE, CORRECT, THAT THERE WOULD BE TRACKING OF SUICIDE DATA LOOKING AT CLUSTERS OF ATTEMPTS, INDIVIDUALS WHO'D MADE MORE THAN ONE ATTEMPT, AM I GETTING THAT RIGHT?

>> YES.

AND WE ALSO ESTABLISH A SUICIDE POST PROGRAM, MODELED ON SOME OF THE UNFORTUNATE BUT GOOD WORK ON PLACES THAT WERE DONE IN TERMS OF NANTUCKET AND OTHER PLACES, A MYRIAD OF WAYS.

I WANT TO BE REALLY CLEAR THAT THIS IS PART OF THE SENATE'S LONG STANDING COMMITMENT AROUND TRANSFORMATION OF MENTAL HEALTH, SENATE PRESIDENT HAS MADE THIS ISSUE ONE OF HER TOP HIGHEST PRIORITIES.

AND SO THIS IS, YOU KNOW, IN PART, PART OF A SERIES OF REFORMS.

IF YOU LOOK AT WHAT WE DID AROUND TELEMEDICINE SCEATD IN THE PATIENTS FIRST ACT, PLEDGE OF INVESTMENTS AND WE'RE GOING TO KEEP AT IT.

>> Reilly: CHARMAIN JACKSON, LET ME GET YOU IN HERE.

WHEN YOU LOOK AT WHAT THE SENATE IS HOPING TO DO HERE, WHAT LOOKS GOOD FOR YOU, AND WHAT WITH JULIAN'S PROVISO THAT THEY'RE NOT DONE YET, WHAT SHOULD BE DONE SOONER RATHER THAN LATER.

>> THANK YOU.

I JUST WANT TO FLAWED SENATOR CYR AND HIS COLLEAGUES FOR PUTTING MENTAL HEALTH ON FRONT STREET.

WE KNOW THAT MENTAL HEALTH IS A FIELD THAT HAS SEVERELY BEEN NEGLECTED PARTICULARLY WHEN IT COMES TO CHILDREN'S MENTAL HEALTH.

SO I AM A CHILD PSYCHOLOGIST FIRST, AND FOREMOST, BUT I'M ALSO A BLACK PSYCHOLOGIST SO I BRING THOSE LENSES INTO MY WORK.

AND INTO THE FOUNDING OF INNOSCIEK.

ONE OF THE MEASURES I WAS REALLY EXCITED ABOUT, THIS IS SOMETHING I TALK ABOUT "ON MY PLATFORM, WE NEED TO DESTIGMATIZE MENTAL HEALTH, AND PART OF IT IS MAKING PRACTICES LIKE THAT TO NORMALIZE THAT.

WHEN YOU GO TO YOUR PEED YA PEDIATRICIAN, OR YOUR PCP EVERY YEAR, GOING TO A PROFESSIONAL IS REALLY KEY.

THE OTHER PART THAT I WAS REALLY EXCITED ABOUT WAS THE FOCUS ON REALLY SUPPORTING EMERGENCY SERVICES FOR CHILDREN AND ADOLESCENTS.

SO AS I WORKED IN SCHOOLS, AND IN A HIGH SCHOOL FOR THE LAST 14 YEARS, AND REALLY WORKED WITH YOUTH WHO WERE AT ACUTE AND IT PAINED ME WHENEVER WE WOULD HAVE TO SEND A CHILD TO THE EMERGENCY ROOM BECAUSE I KNOW THEY WOULD BE THERE FOR HOURS AND SOMETIMES NOT, YOU KNOW, HAVE TO END UP BOARDED ON A MEDICAL FLOOR AND NOT GET ACCESS TO THE SERVICES.

SO I THINK IT'S REALLY TIME THAT WE PUT SOME ATTENTION TO THE NEEDS OF CHILDREN AND ADOLESCENTS.

I'M REALLY EXCITED ABOUT THAT.

THE THIRD PIECE IS AROUND THE CULTURAL COMPETENCE.

SO WE'RE SEVERELY UNDERREPRESENTED AND PART OF THAT WORKFORCE AND BUILDING THAT PIPELINE IS TO NORMALIZE A CAREER IN THE MENTAL HEALTH FIELD.

I TALK TO COLLEGE STUDENTS AND HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS AND THEY HAVE GOTTEN MESSAGES FROM THEIR FAMILY MEMBERS, THAT ONE DOESN'T EXIST, THAT IS PART OF THE STIGMA BUT ALSO THAT IS NOT A VIABLE CAREER OR THAT THEY CAN MAKE MONEY IN THIS FIELD.

AND SO PART OF THE WORK THAT I'M DOING WITH COLLEAGUES IS TO REALLY DESTIGMATIZE AND CHANGE THAT MESSAGING.

ONE OF THE OTHER THINGS, I KNOW, GIVE ME ONE MORE -- >> Reilly: I TALKED TO JULIAN FOR LIKE FIVE MINUTES BEFORE ASKING YOU TO WAIT SO GO AHEAD.

>> ALL RIGHT, GOOD.

SO THE OTHER PIECE IS AROUND, YOU KNOW, HOW DO WE REALLY THINK ABOUT IT FROM A LEGISLATION PERSPECTIVE.

SO FROM YOU KNOW WHEN MENTAL PROFESSIONALS GET LICENSED THERE IS NO DATA ON THEIR DEMOGRAPHICS.

SO WHAT CULTURAL BACKGROUND THEY COME FROM OR EVEN GENDER.

THE SAME FOR INSURANCE, RIGHT?

WHEN I RERNLGD TO BE AN INSURANCE PROVIDER, THAT INFORMATION ISN'T TAKEN.

AND ONE OF THE REASONS I HAD TO START INNOPSYCH IS PEOPLE WANTED A CHOICE IN THEIR PROVIDER.

THEY WANTED SOMEONE WHO REPRESENTED THEIR CULTURAL BACKGROUND, THE UNIQUE THINGS THAT WERE CULTURALLY OR LINGUISTICALLY SPECIFIC.

THAT IS ONE THING I WANT TO SEE DEEP AN LITTLE BIT MORE.

BECAUSE -- DEEPEN A LITTLE BIT MORE.

BECAUSE WHAT PEOPLE WANT MORE IN ADDITION TO ACCESS IS A CHOICE IN PROVIDER.

>> Reilly: NOTED.

NOW I'M GOING TO TRY TO GET JEWELL YANG BACK IN HERE AND COURSE-CORRECT ONCE AGAIN.

JULIAN SINCE YOU ARE INVOLVED IN TRYING TO GET THIS BILL INTO LAW, I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT ITS PROSPECTS.

PASSED THE SENATE UNANIMOUSLY.

HOW LIKELY FIRST OFF DO YOU THINK IT IS THAT THE HOUSE WILL GET GO FOR IT AND A RELATED QUESTION, SINCE THE HOUSE TENDS TO BE THOUGHT OF AS A LITTLE MORE SCHI MODERATE OR CONSERVATIVE.

-- SCHI PHYSICALLY CONSERVE.

>> THERE IS A PROVISION IN THE ACT AROUND COORDINATION, BASICALLY ENHANCEMENT ANSWER CULTURAL COMPETENCY.

WHERE PATIENTS ARE ABLE TO CONNECT WITH THEIR PROVIDERS.

AND THAT'S BOTH FROM RACE, ETHNICITY, SEXUAL OIRNTION.

ORIENTATION.

WE ALSO KNOW, IF YOU NEED A PEDIATRIC PSYCHIATRIST WHO HAS SPANISH LANGUAGE SKILLS, GOOD LUCK.

>> Reilly: YOU ARE MAKING YOURSELF EXTREMELY VULNERABLE.

AND YOU WANT TO BE AS COMFORTABLE AS YOU CAN.

>> OF COURSE.

PART OF THE $122 MILLION IN LOAN REPAYMENT WHICH WE THINK WILL BRING ABOUT 2,000 PEOPLE INTO THIS WORKFORCE IS TO RECRUIT A MORE DIVERSE WORKFORCE.

WE ESTIMATE THAT 98% OF THE WORK FORCE IS WHITE.

THAT MEANS 98% ISN'T WHITE.

WE NEED CULTURALLY ORRECT PROVIDERS.

FOR THE BILL I ACTUALLY GO PRETTY GOOD HERE, YES WE HAVE PRIORITIZED THIS IN THE SENATE, AND THAT'S THANKS TO THE SENATE PRESIDENT'S LEADERSHIP AND TO A LOT OF PERSISTENCE OA LOT OF COLLEAGUES WHO HAVE AGAIN BEEN WORKING ON THESE FOR YEAR.

WE HAVE ADRIAN MODERA WHO CHAIRS THE COMMITTEE ON OUR SIDE AND THE GOVERNOR AS WELL HAS MADE THIS A TOM -- TOP ISSUE.

I THINK WE EXPECT THE GOVERNOR TO PUT OUT A BILL IN JANUARY.

I THINK A LOT OF THINGS CONTAINED IN THE BILL THIS WAS A UNANIMOUS VOTE.

THIS WAS NOT SIGNIFICANT STUFF.

I KNEEL OPTIMISTIC WE CAN GET THIS DONE BEFORE THE SESSION IN JULY 2022.

>> Reilly: WE HAVE TO LEAVE IT THERE.

I HOPE WHEN I LOOK BACK AT WHO GOT TO TALK HOW MUCH, IT'S AT LEAST COMPARABLE.

THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU ADAM.

THAT'S IT FOR TONIGHT, BUT COME BACK TOMORROW, JIM BRAUDE IS BACK WITH HEATHER WALKER, A TOP EXEC WITH THE BOSTON CELTICS, ON HER BATTLE WITH BRAIN CANCER, AND FUNDRAISER TO FIND A CURE.

PLUS, HOW INFLATION IS MAKING THIS THANKSGIVING HARDER THAN EVER FOR LOCAL FOOD BANKS THAT AND MORE, TOMORROW AT 7:00.

THANKS FOR WATCHING.

Captioned by Media Access Group at WGBH access.wgbh.org