- Hi, I'm Mitch Kokai, filling in for Marc Rotterman.

Coming up on "Front Row," North Carolina's Senate leader Phil Berger and House Speaker Tim Moore join me and Carolina Journal's Donna King to hash out the results of the 2022 elections and find out what we can expect from the upcoming legislative session due to kickoff in January.

That's next.

- [Announcer] Major funding for "Front Row" with Marc Rotterman is provided by Robert L. Luddy.

Additional funding provided by Patricia and Koo Yuen through the Yuen Foundation, committed to bridging cultural differences in our communities.

And by.

[dramatic music] Funding for the Lightning Round provided by Nicholas B. and Lucy Mayo Boddie Foundation, A.E.

Finley Foundation, NC Realtors, Rifenburg Construction, Stefan Gleason.

A complete list of funders can be found at pbsnc.org/frontrow.

[dramatic music] ♪ - Welcome back.

Joining the conversation, Donna King, editor in chief of Carolina Journal.

North Carolina Senate President Pro tempore Phil Berger.

We sometimes say senate leader, that's the unofficial title.

North Carolina's Speaker of the House, Tim Moore.

Let's begin with the 2022 midterm elections, Donna.

- Absolutely.

So we of course have been watching these really closely.

The whole nation really has for North Carolina, but one of the takeaways from North Carolina's 2022 midterm elections was now the North Carolina Senate has a super majority.

Senate leader Berger, tell me a little bit about what that means, how many new members you have coming in, and how you think it changes how you might operate.

- So I don't know that it'll change that much in terms of how we'll operate.

Probably the most significant thing, at least if you read the political pundits out there, is that with a super majority, if the governor were to interpose a veto to legislation that passed the Senate and the House, then in the Senate, at least, we would have, on a purely partisan basis, enough votes to override that veto.

But I don't know that, at least as we sit here in November of 2022, I can say that there's any particular change in how we would operate at this point.

- Sure, sure.

So now of course, now that's the House, the North Carolina House, one vote shy of that super majority.

You have 71 Republicans.

Still, I think for all I intents and purposes, a practical super majority, but you've got a lot of new members too.

What are you hearing about how that new General Assembly is going to come together, some of the leadership changes you might make, if any, and then what some of your priorities are?

- So very pleased with the results of the election.

We actually picked up or actually took six seats that were currently held by Democratic incumbents with new Republican members.

So very pleased with the outcome.

And what I can can tell you is a number of Democratic members have already reached out saying they wanna work, that they would probably be glad to be that 72nd vote.

So I feel like we'll be in a good position going forward.

But just as the Senate, any legislation we try to do, we really strive for it to be bipartisan on the front end.

We try to make it as many folks on both sides of the aisle to vote for it.

And we always reach out to the governor to try to get the governor's buy-in.

But those rare occasions where we just have that difference of opinion and you get vetos and you have to deal with overrides.

I do feel like we'll be able to get where we need to be.

But it's gonna require us to work across the aisle, and that's a great thing.

- [Donna] Sure, sure.

- Before we move on from the election, I'd like to ask both of you what you know about the newcomers to your caucuses because you have some people who have retired and you get some new people in.

We'll start with Speaker Moore this time.

What do you know about the new faces and how they might contribute?

- So I met with the new Republican members actually yesterday and today, and so we've had our caucus elections today when I've been renominated to serve an additional term as the Speaker of the House, appreciative of that opportunity.

But these folks come from all around the state.

A lot of our new members are from rural areas.

I mean, it's just the seats that we picked up in the election were just amazing background of so many folks.

A lot of veterans, we have several ministers.

Folks who are small business owners.

A lot of folks who are, I'm getting to that stage where the new members coming in are younger than I am and some of them have young children, but just a great group of folks who are here, ready to show up and serve.

I should be meeting with my new democratic members here in the coming days as well.

Looking forward to getting to know them as well and seeing that we all work together toward the common good of the state.

- How about the new faces of the Senate?

- Yeah, so the more things change, the more they seem to be very much like they have been.

I've got people from all over the state that ran for office because they want to send a voice or their local folks wanna send a voice to Raleigh that will reflect the local concerns and interest.

Among the Republican members who, at this point, I know better than the new Democrats, I would say that they're conservative.

We've got a number of lawyers, got some small business people, but people who are very much interested in what is happening in Raleigh, happening with the state of North Carolina, and just want to do something to make North Carolina a better place.

- Sure, sure.

Now Speaker Moore alluded to working with Governor Cooper.

He's got good approval ratings and some of our polls.

You all were able to finally get a budget on the books for the first time I think since he's been here.

Can you talk a little bit about how that relationship is evolving, what you anticipate for the coming session?

- So it's not unusual for the governor to pick up the phone, call me.

I know he does the same thing with the Speaker for one of us to pick up phone, call him.

We also have members who have relationships with the governor's liaisons in the General Assembly.

I think it's a businesslike relationship.

It's pretty cordial.

I've not have any recollection of any heated exchanges or anything like that, but there's no question that there are significant differences from a philosophical standpoint and on policy issues between where the governor would like to take the state and where our members would like to take the state.

And so, in those instances, we try to work out the differences.

Sometimes we can and sometimes we can't.

- Sure, sure.

What do you think about that relationship and some of those priorities?

Where do you all differ you think with the governor?

- Well, we certainly have a lot of, there are some shared priorities.

If you look at how we've all worked together in a very bipartisan way and with the governor on economic development initiatives.

North Carolina has a great deal of success, I would say, due in large part to the tax environment and the regulatory environment that conservative governance has brought to this state for the last 12 years.

So you couple all of that together with it is a great state and we have great opportunities to work together with the governor there.

But there are those moments and those times that obviously get reported about where we have a difference of opinion.

And so we try to avoid getting to that, but I mean, there's a reason there's two different parties, right?

I mean, there's different worldviews at times.

So we'll continue to work to build consensus as much as we can.

And those times when we have a disagreement, we just do so honestly and let the votes fall where they may.

- Sure, sure.

- We know that both of you lead caucuses, so some of this will be dependent on what your members say.

But let's get a little bit into priorities for this new coming session.

We'll start with Speaker Moore.

When you look ahead to January and what's coming up with this new General Assembly, what are some of the main things that you know you're going to wanna focus on?

- Well, one thing, and I think Senator Berger has used this word as well, and I think is the word continuity.

To keep doing things right the way we have in North Carolina.

If you look at what's happening, Mitch, nationally, you look at where we are with inflation, so many really problems with the way the federal government's being managed right now, you can contrast that with the policies that are in North Carolina and the fact that North Carolina is doing well.

So I think one of the things you'll see is, one, making sure we continue to keep North Carolina moving in the right direction on sound financial footing.

But you can expect to see us deal with ways to improve education.

We know learning loss because of the covid shutdowns is real.

Investing there, investing in additional educational choice, which is critical.

Putting more resources to law enforcement, enhancing the criminal side.

Folks are tired of crime.

I mean, there are so many issues that were talked about in the campaign, but a lot of that is going back to the caucus and finding out where our members are on these issues.

Letting them bring those matters forward.

But a lot of great ideas being discussed and those will be formulated I suspect in the coming weeks and months.

- Other items we should add to the list, Senator?

- So I think healthcare is something that will be talked about.

We will hopefully be able to move the needle in that area.

But I agree with the comments that the Speaker made.

Continuity is the word that we need to be looking at.

There's a reason North Carolina was ranked the number one state to do business, and that we've been at the top of rankings all across the political spectrum.

And a lot of the things that we've done over the past decade have been cited as reasons for that.

- And I'm guessing that both of you would say that the election results suggest that continuity is the way to go.

There wasn't a major swing one way or the other.

Both of your chambers picked up a couple of seats.

Seems to suggest that people are at least comfortable with the way things are going.

- I think they were comfortable with the way things are going in the legislature.

Very uncomfortable with the way things were going in the courts.

- Sure.

Well, and that actually brings me to my question.

That's one thing that we've talked a lot about.

Republicans pretty much swept, or they did sweep all of the statewide judicial races.

Court of appeals, flipped two seats in the North Carolina Supreme Court.

So now that court, which had been left-leaning is now a little bit right-leaning.

Tell me how does that change at all some of your strategies, even on like voter ID and redistricting?

Some of the things that we have really been following these court cases throughout that end up being litigated through these systems and ending up at that high court.

- So I don't know that it changes our strategy.

I think people know where we stand on those issues, and I think the new members are, at least within the Republican caucus, are aligned with where we've been on voter ID.

But I do think that the results in the election make it clear that the voters in North Carolina were very unhappy with the way the Democratic majority on the court had taken the court.

- Sure, so now you're operating from a constitutional, you know, we're moving forward with this legislation being constitutional.

What about voter ID?

Could that come back in another form in another bill?

You know, what are your thinking?

What is your caucus and your members telling you?

- Well, we are committed to see that voter ID that was approved by roughly 60% of the people in this state in an amendment to the constitution in 2018 is the law of the land.

We've passed the enabling legislation that has mirrored what other states have done that's been upheld, and roughly 36 other states have some form of voter ID.

And so we need to ensure that that becomes the law.

I know that we've had some conversations on legislative action to move the needle that way, as well as the litigation.

I would expect you would see movement on both fronts.

Because at the end of the day, it's about respecting the will of the voters.

And I think the voters spoke very loudly in the judicial elections and and replaced judges who had forgotten that and simply failed to, well, they ignored the constitution.

And you can't do that because at the end of the day, the constitution is that guiding document.

And also the voters are all of our bosses.

And when elected officials forget that, they pay a consequence.

- I wanna bring up an issue that I don't know if it's going to be on the agenda the next time or not because you've already really set a path, and that is on tax policy.

We already know from the budget that the governor signed tax rates are going down.

Corporate rate going down eventually to zero.

The personal income tax rate also going down.

Is there more work to be done on that front or would you kind of just like to see the current path continue as was passed in the budget?

We'll start with Speaker Moore.

- So we'll certainly wanna see what the revenue numbers are that come in this year.

We wanna see how the economy is working.

We wanna make sure that North Carolina is able to continue to provide services throughout the spectrum and make sure that we're able to pay our bills.

We're in a good position now.

We have probably one of the largest savings reserve funds of any state in the country, very fiscally sound.

We've managed to build a lot of capital projects without acquiring new debt.

In fact, to retire some debt.

Really a great example of how to govern and how to run the state like a business.

So I would say certainly anything we can do to continue to lower taxes, I would like to see that.

To reduce regulations, great as well.

We just wanna make sure that we don't, we wanna make sure we can stay within what the expenses are.

And due to some of the policies that are happening at the federal level with inflation, we know we're gonna be facing some additional costs, probably personnel and you name it.

So we're gonna have to be able to absorb a lot of that as well.

- Priorities on taxes?

- I think anytime you see our revenue overshoot our projected or our actual spend, that means we're taxing too much.

And over the past several years, our revenue has far surpassed what our budgets have been.

I would like to see us continue to drive down the individual income tax rate.

I think we have the capacity to do that.

We will obviously have to take a look at what the ongoing revenue picture looks like, but I'm very optimistic that we'll have the capacity to further reduce income tax rates.

- Follow up on that because Speaker Moore have referenced this, but one of the things that we have seen in recent years that is a complete reversal to what we saw more than 10 years ago, previous decade, is having a large savings reserve, big rainy day fund.

How much does having that rainy day fund help you as you're making decisions about what can be done in the future?

- Well, certainly it gives us a cushion.

But remember, a rainy day fund is one time money.

It's not something that can substitute for ongoing expenditures.

So it's something, it truly is something to be used for that unexpected, hopefully one time situation.

And we are blessed in North Carolina because of the planning that has taken place and the decisions that have taken place in having a robust rainy day fund.

We also have a very robust balance in our unemployment insurance fund, which is completely different from what we had in the lead up to the recession in 2008, 2009.

- Speaker Moore, thoughts about the rainy day fund?

- Well, absolutely.

Well, and I think when we took the majority, the state was in debt to the federal government, what?

Nearly 6 billion if you added in.

And so turned that negative all the way into now, we have roughly a positive of four and a half billion.

That's about a 10 and a half billion dollar swing in the right direction.

Not bad for government work.

And you factor in that we paid for what, two hurricanes along the way, the state share.

We were able to lower tax.

I think the highest bracket North Carolina is, what?

Roughly seven and three quarters or so.

Now you have a flat tax, it's gonna be coming in under 4%.

Corporate income tax is one of the highest in the nation, and it's now working down to zero.

So it's a matter of balancing things of actually having additional sums there, providing the services, and at the same time, reducing taxes.

I think Washington could take some cues on what we've done in Raleigh, Phil.

- The country would be been much better shape if they did.

- Absolutely.

- Sure.

We even had some teacher furloughs way back.

That's something that has not happened even through pandemics and recession and all these other things that we've had.

One thing that I was watching closely in these elections was some of the shift in school boards, local school boards.

New Hanover County had a big swing.

More conservatives being elected to these school boards.

We call it like a mad mom thing, you know?

It seems like during the pandemic, during those school closures, it ignited this groundswell among parents who were unhappy with not just the closures, but some of what they were seeing happening in their classwork.

And it led to the Parents Bill of Rights.

That was something that you all focused on, you know, had had support for in the legislature last session.

Do you think that this election and some of those shifts, I'll start with you, indicates that there might be an appetite for something similar?

Another Parents Bill of Rights?

- Yeah, I don't think there's any question.

One of the more interesting things to me from a political standpoint and from a messaging standpoint is two issues that the Democrats always ran on in legislative races did not materialize, at least as far as democratic talking points, and that was healthcare and education.

And on both of those issues, I think republicans, with the policies that we have pursued, have taken those issues away from the Democrats.

I think on healthcare, the indication that we're gonna move in a positive direction on expansion and some other issues dealing with healthcare.

But on education, that's probably the most significant movement because the public now sees Republicans as the appropriate party to deal with education.

I think a lot of that has to do with the public sees the Republican position, the public sees that position as being pro student, pro parent, as opposed to pro administration, pro bureaucracy.

So I think that was significant, and I think that's something that will continue as we go forward.

Parents Bill of Rights I think is something that fits right in with that.

- Sure, sure.

So education policy, we've talked a lot about that.

Education is a huge amount, huge percentage of our state budget.

Is that the answer, just increase the spending?

How do you find that balanced increase the quality, the outcome of our education system?

- Well, one, parents wanna be able to have more say so.

They wanna know what their kids are learning, what they're being taught.

And a lot of parents discovered through a lot of the, when there was things being taught online, they were shocked at some of the things they were seeing and some of the things they weren't seeing.

The other thing parents were very concerned about was, if you look at, for example, like all your charter schools and your private schools, those students continued going to school when a lot of the traditional public schools were shut down.

There was no difference in terms of negative health outcomes for students or for teachers between the traditional schools and the private schools and the charter schools, et cetera.

But you know what there was a big difference in?

That is the outcome for these students.

These kids that were out of school all this time stuck at home learning.

Maybe they had broadband access, maybe they didn't, but they weren't in the classroom, those children are behind.

We put additional resources into summer school to try to get them caught up.

That still hasn't quite worked.

So we need to continue to invest there, but we also need to understand that if a parent has a child in the school system that simply is not getting the job done, they need to have that opportunity.

They need to have that choice.

Because education, at the end of the day, is about making sure that student receives the education that they need to be able to grow and thrive and survive.

- And how can we get that broadband?

That's something that became a huge problem all of a sudden it felt like in education when everything moved remote.

Getting broadband Murphy to Manteo.

That's quite an undertaking.

Where are we on that and how do we get a little further?

- So we passed the legislation, both the Senate and the House both passed this called the GREAT, the GREAT Grants.

Acronym, but basically what it is, it gets additional money out there to get broadband access for that what's called a last mile of service.

There are areas of our state where it's extraordinarily expensive to get broadband out there.

So we have that there, but it's a work in progress.

But on the education thing, those children should have have been in class.

It would've been a lot better.

- We've made some references to it so far, but I'm gonna bring up the M word, Medicaid expansion.

We know that the Senate has passed a bill that would deal with Medicaid expansion.

The House has passed a bill that would also address the issue.

Governor Cooper has talked about wanting Medicaid expansion ever since he was running for office.

What's it gonna take to get a deal on Medicaid expansion?

- I think the Senate will continue to be supportive of the bill that we passed last year.

Actually earlier this year, last session.

44 votes, only two no votes on that bill.

And I think the reason it had that level of support is because it was a balanced bill that dealt not only with expanding Medicaid, but also with some of the market changes that need to take place.

CON reforms, reforms in terms of scope of practice, and some other issues there.

So there's no question there will be bills introduced in the new session.

The the real question is gonna be whether or not we're gonna be able to hit that sweet spot and get something that can pass both the House and the Senate.

- And from the House side, we insisted in our legislation guard rails or protections to make sure that there was cost predictability.

That if for some reason the federal match went away, which I don't think either of us think that's likely, but if for some reason that happened that the state would not be on the hook for that additional cost, which could triple the amount of that.

We also wanted to make sure that anything that we passed would not be a disincentive to folks getting a job.

That it would not punish someone trying to obtain employment.

Because right now, one of the key issues I believe that we have is workforce.

You look around the state and you keep hearing the demand.

We need folks to show up and work in jobs, to take these careers.

So we didn't want anything at all to add to that problem.

So we came up with a pretty carefully balanced proposal.

A lot of similarities in what the Senate passed and what we did.

A few differences and hopefully we'll get to a point where we can work those out.

- Before we move away from that, do either of you think we're actually going to have a deal in this next session or does it remain to be seen?

- I've previously predicted that sometime over the course of the next biennial, we'll have a deal.

- I think there's a good chance.

I'm working on them.

I'm trying.

[laughing] - Something else that, in the 2022 elections, Democrats really focused hard on the abortion access issue, and they used it as their call to try and drive voters to the polls to prevent a super majority.

Obviously, you picked up seats, super majority in the Senate, almost practical super majority in the House.

Do you think we'll see any legislation this session on abortion?

Any kind of restrictions or any new change in abortion policy?

You wanna start with that one?

- Well, haven't had a chance to talk with my members about that, so exactly what, if anything, we'll see passed really remains to be seen.

I don't think there's any question you'll see bills introduced both that would expand access to abortion and would curtail the current 20 week ban.

So exactly where we end up, I don't know.

I think that it's likely that something will pass, but exactly what it looks like, we'll just have to wait and see.

- Sure, and what are you hearing from your members?

- So we also are gonna be discussing that among our members as well.

But I do believe that whatever we look at doing needs to be comprehensive.

We need to deal with access to healthcare for women, access to healthcare for children.

Making the adoption process easier, which often is complained about.

And then just really trying to approach it in a comprehensive, and frankly, in a compassionate manner.

I think you will see from a Republican majority that would be a very balanced approach to looking at what's been a difficult issue.

And it looks like the voters didn't buy a lot of the, frankly, misinformation that was out there about a number of our folks running for the Senate and running for the House.

They see the way that a Republican majority has dealt with a lot of tough issues in our state and see how we've been very deliberate on that, and I think they know that these others will do that as well.

- Our time is running very short, but just in, I guess sort of yes or no answer to both of you.

Very optimistic about this upcoming session and the economy and North Carolina's future?

- Yes, to all of the above.

[laughing] - [Mitch] Senator?

- Absolutely yes.

- Excellent.

Well, we certainly want to thank the Speaker of the House, Tim Moore, the Senate leader, Phil Berger, and we wanna thank you for watching, thank you to Donna King, and we hope you'll join us again next week on "Front Row."

[dramatic music] - [Announcer] Major funding for "Front Row" with Marc Rotterman is provided by Robert L. Luddy.

Additional funding provided by Patricia and Koo Yuen through the Yuen Foundation.

Committed to bridging cultural differences in our communities.

And by.

[dramatic music] Funding for the Lightning Round provided by Nicholas B. and Lucy Mayo Boddie Foundation.

A.E.

Finley Foundation, NC Realtors, Rifenburg Construction, Stefan Gleason.

A complete list of funders can be found at pbsnc.org/frontrow.

[dramatic music] ♪