This week on OTR, Republican State Representative William Bruck, who wants to regulate drones.

And what happens if we don't?

That's coming up next Off the Record.

Production of Off the Record is made possible in par by Bellwether Public Relations, a full servic strategic communications agency partnering with clients through public relations, digital marketing and issue advocacy.

Learn more at bellwetherpr.com.

And now this edition of Off the Record, with Tim Skubick.

Thank you very much.

Welcome back to Off the Recor a lousy looking day out there.

Then the worst was yet to come, right.

let's let's talk about, let's talk about guns.

Kyle, a report is out.

The governor put together some folks.

What did they want to do?

Well, the governo put together a group of mostly like minded individuals that are, supportive of restricting gun use.

They want to ban ghost guns.

They want to make it so that only those who are 21 and older are able to buy guns, who want to increase the waiting period, get rid of bump stocks, a lot of stuf that, probably isn't surprising if you've been following the gun control debate, but not supported by, folks from like, Michigan Coalition Responsible Gun Owners, for example, where they have gun rights advocates who clai they were left out of the loop and really didn't give any meaningful impact to what they believe was just a grease report from the governor.

Yeah, I think a lot of these issues have come up before, they'll come up again.

And there are two very established sides of this debate.

one who is interested in, you know, controlling the mechanism trying to use these as a means to stop, gun violence and then the other side who says this is going too far and it's restricting people's rights to gun ownership?

Is this D.O.A.?

Yes.

All right, next question.

All right, next up.

Yeah.

I mean, it's not ever going t get through the house for sure.

And it's really interesting what will be the reaction of the governor and the state Senate controlled by Democrats to the package that they are all going to say, Hosanna, Hosanna, let's pass all these bills.

But the governor has said she would support an assault weapons ban.

Yeah.

I think the problem, though, is that there there doesn't seem to be a ton of middle ground.

I mean, you're looking at all the recommendations, maybe standardizing the training for the school resource officer and how to handle a gun offense.

Maybe something of that nature could get passed that.

I know that to Representative Luke Merriman has been working on things for seems like 4 or 5 years now.

but it just seems like the middle ground is so difficult, like on so many issues that, to find the pola opposites are having too much, or getting too much mileage ou of, really kind of demagoguing their positions.

We did se a sliver of bipartisan support with the modest gun control package that was passed a couple of years ago.

But it was.

That was a low hanging fruit.

It was very low hanging fruit and a very specific issue.

I do think to Kyle's point, there is obviously a bipartisan interest in keeping schools safe.

you know, and doing what, in doing as much as possible to prevent mass shootings, of course.

But the issue of what would actually do that is still a big point of contention.

To me the most telling thing was when Democrats had control of the legislative process, none of this stuff passed.

Why not?

Yeah, because there are som Democrats who aren't on board.

And that's true.

I mean, remember the old John Cherry Democrats who used to be in greater abundance of they are now, they're still some around, not as many, but they, aren't as enthusiastic.

I remember talking to, Senator Beher, who was Rosemary who was on this issue and was very diligent in working on it.

And I said, okay, how come?

How come you can't run the assault?

She said, Tim, it's a year before an election.

Well, it's also a year after an election.

It's the same attitude.

Right?

Alright, Kyle you've done some research on legislation that lawmakers are are not grinding out.

Well, it's very strange.

Tim, there's been a complete change in the atmosphere in the house, and the numbers kind of reflect this.

We're in a stage right now in the state legislature, where the governor ha only signed 35 bills into law.

So to give to give the the, viewers some perspective.

and by this time, and by the end of the year, a legislature that is completely met will have passed somewher between 200, 300 bills into law.

there's been years, not to and not too far away where we've had 600, 800 bills signed into law.

In low years, there's been 160, 200 again, we're at 35.

So even if they double thei output for these last few weeks in the session, there's still half of what the low, lowest hanging fruit has or the lowes level has been up to this point.

So the person at home is going, so what?

Well, it' because there is a change in the approach in the state Hous that Matt Hall has brought in.

He is not doing the standard.

Whatever the lobbyists whatever the special interest, whatever people are bringing i as problems need to be solved, will get passed through in legislation and we'll just kind of grind it out.

If you look at the numbers this is how Lansing has operated really, since the founding of the state in 1837.

That is how they've done it.

This is not how Matt Hall is doing it.

Matt Hall has changed the focus to oversight, complete oversight of state government and using that process to change how the budget is being written.

So we've had six oversigh committee chairs, one of which is going to be one of our guests here in just a minute.

Their focus is on not passing legislation.

In fact, they're taking joy in celebrating the fact that they're they're they're basically giving the middle finger to the traditional Lansing establishment saying less is more and this is how we're doing it.

Well, I think that is the point, Billy, that people at hom who don't like their government doing stuff to them, not for them, are applauding.

Yeah, I would think so, honestly.

amazing to m that over the years legislators have put such priority on quantity over quality.

Like jus how many bills have you passed.

Grind them out.

Member of the old, lame duck sessions between Election Da and the start of the next year?

And that's when you got 600, 800 bills a year passing.

These are what are called cat and dog bills.

They're very minor.

Yes, they may pleas a lot of individual lobbyists.

Matt Hall, as Kyle points out, is focusing on quality rather than quantity.

He's saying, let's stay awa from just running up the score on the number of bills passed so that, Senator Joel Blow can go back hom and say, hey, I got five bills signed in law this year, an let's focus on the big picture.

And meanwhile, mayb with our oversight committees, we ought to just look at, should we maybe just focus on passing less laws in general and keep the ball going year after year fro now on with this new attitude?

You know on the other side of the coin, now, if you're someone who cares about policy issues, that isn't something that's a priority of the speaker right now.

I think, you know, maybe if you're really intereste in criminal justice issues or, you know, there's certain education issues that have just been kind of, you know, stagnant, at this point.

And I if I make calls to some of these sources about, hey, any any interest, the answer has been, well, you know, we'll see.

And, that we'll see is is played out in the numbers that Kyle just brought out.

So there's a lot of things that have not been, you know, those conversations haven't been happening because they're like, well, it's not going to get passed.

Yeah.

Well, I mean, so just give you an example.

I mean, the speaker of the House is typically his office is usually th busiest office in the capital.

It's usually back to back meetings with lobbyists or somebody pitching a certain idea.

You know, we need some kind of control on, let's say, hemp infuse drinks or something like that.

And they're back to back and over and over and over again.

Matt Hall doesn't operate that way.

He doesn't care.

He all right.

He's got his list of things that he wants to do.

first it was the tipped wage issue and then it was, you know, we're going to focus on the budget.

And then it was his, heat plan, you know, the transparency on the legislative earmarks.

And now it's economic development.

And that's it.

Like it's it's a tunnel focus.

And if there's some, you know, drips and drabs, that has to happen, then he'll put a focus on it.

But otherwise it's pushed off until, you know, maybe we'll get to it later.

This is a good piece of research.

You did, buddy.

Oh, well thank you.

And no charge.

Right.

I'm not going to get a bill for this am I?

No, no, but, you know, the only reason I thought we should bring it up is that this is not an incremental change.

I mean, it's not like you know, they're passing 150, and it could be like this weird kind of factoid that you can share at a cocktail party.

This is like a, a systematic change that is happening right now to go from 160 to 200 to only 35 public act is astounding and zero vetoes.

This isn't a governor thing.

This isn't Governor Whitmer.

This is a legislative thing.

This is a Matt Hall thing.

Yes, it is a Matt Hall thing.

But that means he has got to retain the majority in the House and 2026 if he doesn't and the Democrats regain control of the House and they retain control of the Senate and they win the governorship, guess what?

This is going to be back t the good old days again, Kyle.

This may be a one time blip.

It could be a one time blip.

But in the meantime, he's getting a lot of publicity.

The Michigan State Police, colonel was brought in.

they've been focused on the DNR, the MEDC, SOAR credits.

I mean, they've done numerous committee meetings on all of these different subjects, and it's issues that, you know, maybe wouldn't have been brought up before.

But he's putting a spotlight on issues within the state bureaucracy.

Well, one of the things they did do was pass a school aid bill $10,050, an increase for school kids.

That number is a little misleadi I guess well have to find out.

Well, Miss Gibbons, look a there were cuts in that budget.

Okay, that that figure.

There were.

Sounds good.

The foundation grant went way up.

Yes.

What they want to talk about.

But they giveth on one hand and taketh away in the other.

They now force them to spend more money on teacher retirement.

Some of the money went to higher education.

Well, not just some, but a lot.

And they increased.

They increase the number that went to higher education by about 50%.

So that school aid fund, a lot of that went to to higher or higher ed.

And then that was less money for what we call categorical.

I mean, these special pots of money that schools spend and that they rely on for certain services, that didn't happen and they typically do happen.

So some school districts, Tim, didn't make out.

I mean, some schools got a little bit more on the net, but other schools did.

They actually got less money than they did before.

And they're going to have to make cuts.

Right.

And I don't mean to be flippant, of course, this is a huge issue.

And, a lot of my colleagues at at bridge have been studying.

There are some big issues happening in education right now.

Our reading and math scores are dipping.

Absentee rates are increasing.

This is not a small problem.

So a lot of these a lot of thes things that we're seeing cuts.

You know I could have impact that may not may not assist in getting those issues addressed.

Yeah.

The word the word that the guy over at the school board Association would troubl said was some of these schools.

It was a wash.

Okay.

They get they got this big increase in the grant.

And he said we're happy with that okay.

But when you adjusted you got to subtract from that numbe to get what the real number is.

They may have actually lost a little.

yeah.

Absolutely.

Now in the governors and legislature defense that the headline was absolutely correct.

It just as Paul Harvey said, didnt tell the rest of the story, am I right or wrong?

Yeah.

Right.

But and so that actually gives fuel to that ballot initiative that is looking to add a 5% income tax surcharge to people who make over $1 million or more, because that would be their argument that while the legislature claims that they are spending money on education reality that we need more money in education to to make sure we get quality teachers and we get the staff in there to make our our school system back to a top ten or a top tier state and not near the bottom with West Virginia.

On the other hand, we did see a huge influx of spending during the Covid period, especially from the federal government.

And, some on the other side of the coin would argue that did not necessarily help.

you know, some of these issues still persist despite all of that extra funding.

But now a lot of schools are concerned that, you know, that funding is no longer coming in.

Now.

It's the the state's proble and who knows what will happen.

All of the schools would argue that COVID money was good, but in order to solve long term mental health problems, you don't do that.

In one fell swoop, right?

It's a long story.

Excuse me The governor calling (laughing).

Good timing.

But my point is, it's a long term funding that you need in order to get the pop for the dollars that you're spending, correct?

Correct.

Well, yeah.

Not only that.

I mean, the the special parts of money like school safety have now come with that string attached to it that they got to give up immunity.

Yeah, they got to give up their, attorney client privilege.

Good luck.

Actually, that was my director calling.

We've got to get the guest in here okay?

Representative Bruck welcome to Off the Record.

Thank you for the invite.

It's an honor to be here.

So, listen, you want to regulate drones?

If we do nothing.

If we do nothing, what happens?

Well, we see what's going on around the world.

And drones, you know, we see what's going on in Ukraine and Russia.

We.

There's a lot of drone, nefarious drone activity.

I'm talking, you know, going on in Africa, South America.

Wait a minute this is Michigan?

Yeah, we're in Michigan.

But what goes around the world, come to me comes here.

I mean, we see a lot of nefarious drone active, even even in Mexico.

There's cartels that have drone departments, and they're battling each other and battling police down in Mexico.

And we just seen a few weeks ago down in Bolivia, whether or not Bolivia, excuse me, Brazil, where drones were being used by cartels to kill police officers.

So you're predicting the wild wild West if we don't regulate?

Well, it is wild, wild West.

Right now in the U.S.

we have drones flying over, over prisons, over our power plants, over critical infrastructure, over airports.

They're interacting where they shouldn't be each and every day here in Michigan.

And what's the what's the real world implication for someone who maybe views drones as a little toy they can buy to look at and take pictures of, of local landmarks?

You know, what is what is the pitch that you're giving to to voters who may not understand the national security implications?

Yeah.

I mean, drones are they they can be very benign and they can be fun.

And, you know, people go out and buy a cheap drone from Walmart or off Amazon or something, and they can do crazy good things with them.

Realtors use them all the time.

Farmers are using them to spray their crops.

You know, the power companies are using them to inspect lines is a lot cheaper than using a helicopter.

And you know, our police force, US security personnel are using the to help protect public safety.

So they're being used in a lot of good ways, but.

Should that be encourage by the legislature in some ways.

Are there roadblocks against being able to use drones in a benign wa that you guys could eliminate?

No I don't believe there's actually any roadblocks anywhere right now.

And that's part of the problem, because we've seen just a maybe a month ago or so, there was, the FBI interacted with the gentleman that was going to be attacked and TACOM with a drone.

you know, that's a real thing.

TACOM in Detroit that tank flight.

And so they they stop that.

And the only reason they stopped that was because the guy wasn't very smart, which is on social media, trying to get other people to join his crowd.

You want a state registry?

You know, the line all these people up and had caused him a fee to get registered?

No, it's a it's a state registry for public drone and those that are registered.

So you know, there's two different drone worlds are certified operators.

And then there's public or private people that just have drones that you don't have to register every drone you buy.

I mean, you buy a drone from Amazon you don't have to register that.

But if you want to get certification through the FAA to fly your drone, then you have to get registered and you have to register that drone.

Now, why would you need the FAA?

why approval?

Why would you need that?

Why do you need it?

Why do people want to be registered?

Why do they want s they can operate commercially?

That's really what it boils down to.

You know, there's a difference between commercial operation and private operation if that makes sense.

You know, a private operator can use a drone.

You know, my son's use a drone.

He he's a construction guy down in Tennessee.

They own their own business, and he uses drones to get the pictures of the final product in the pre product too, you know, and then he uses that for marketing.

And we see that being used.

Should enforcement get a court order before they use drones to to spy on people?

Well I think they would have t I mean, they can't spy on people normally without a court order, can they?

You don't suppose law enforcement's ever done that?

And freelance to just sort of joins up and runs up in somebody's backyard?

I don't know, that's that's the point, isn't it?

Isn't that the point?

one of the bills in your package specifically deals with enforcement, and I'm curious what that, in, in your min should ultimately look like it.

You know, it's it's hard for law enforcement or, to be anywhere a drone might be.

So.

So what, what is the ideal, solution to enforcing some of these restrictions?

Well, currently, you know, different police departments based on their budget, and they have drones.

Almost every police department has some sort of drone or at least access.

They're using them for force enabler when they're looking for lost people, when they're looking for bad guys, when they're going into a home, you know, where there's, an interaction dangerous situation.

They can send a drone in, you know, to give them eyes on without actually putting a body there.

I mean, it's saving lives.

They're using them already.

As far as counter drones, that's what you're talking about.

Enforcing counter drones right now.

There's no capability to do that.

we've obviousl you talked about our committee.

We've had various people in our committee.

We had Sheriff Bouchard we had another sheriff in there.

We've had three sheriffs, actually.

You know, drones invariably come up, but what they see is drones interacting during publi events and drones interacting.

I think Sheriff Bouchard, during testimony, talked about an instance where his helicopter was flying at 3000ft and there was a drone shadowing his helicopter.

That's not okay, number one.

It's way outside the 400ft FAA guidelines.

But number two it puts his personnel at risk.

But even if there was a nefarious drone flying, let's say the Woodward Dream cruise, and they knew it was a bad drone, they knew it was nefarious.

They knew it was weaponized.

There's nothing legally that Sheriff Bouchard or anyone else can do to counteract out of the sky.

No they can't.

They're legally, they would be in deep water because they'd have a lot of liability, and they'd actually be breaking the law to shoot down or take down a drone.

Should they be able to shoot it out of the sky, they should be able to take it and disable it.

Representative.

Yeah.

Nicely put.

Shoot it down.

But there's a lot of different.

There's kinetic means, you know, it's just just like anything else.

There's kinetic and then there's non-kinetic meaning there's ways to take a drone down to interact with that control mechanism, to break without shooting it down, to disable it and bring it down safely, but it takes longer than 15 seconds to do that.

Oh, well, I served in the military.

You can do it much quicker than that.

Representative.

Look we talked a lot in this program before you got o about the piddly number of bills that are passing the legislature.

You got this huge package.

What about Speaker Hall?

Who doesn't like passing a lot of bill?

What chance is there that any o these bills are going to pass?

Oh, I think there's a hig likelihood they tell you that.

Why?

I've met with Speaker Hall.

I've met with and I've met with leadership.

Representative did he tell you hed do it?

No, I didn't ask him to do it.

I mean, you had an audience with the Pope and you didn't ask him?

Well, I mean that respectfully.

I have a good relationship with Speaker Hall.

We have a very good, congenial relationship.

there's a lot, a lot of respect between, I think both of us.

He he knows what my background is.

I know what his background is.

And, you know, he he's he's very wise in how he picks chairs, I believe, or, you know, people, you know, I'm not in leadership and I don't want to be in leadership.

I just want to be in Lansing t do something good for my state.

And so I'm using my experiences with them 31 years in the military, how can I be a betterment to our state?

And so this bill package, it is a large package.

I'm hoping, you know, from 35 that would be up to, you know, 40-49.

Right.

49 bills we could get to very quickly.

But it's six Democrats six Republicans on this package.

You won't find a more bipartisan package in the legislature.

But my apologies to people that were offended by the Pope comment.

But clearly, he does have the power of lif and death over your legislation.

Yes, he does.

And I've been working with leadership.

I've been working with Speaker Hall.

And to get his he has a hig priority on homeland security.

He has a high priority on oversight.

He has a high priority on drones.

There's a lot coming out of the RDC right now regarding drone manufacturer in this bill said doesn't just affect, you know, enforcement of drones or prohibitions of drones.

It also puts in plac for future mobility, with Mdot being the controlling factor over both registration and certification, which they are in the state.

But also, how do we move forwar as a state with drone mobility and that manufacturing is part of that piece?

So it I believe it fits into Speaker Hall's plan as far as where we want to be in the next ten years.

How widespread is interest and support in this package among your fellow lawmakers?

I mean, are you a lone wolf in the wilderness?

You and maybe Speaker Hall in your concern about drone?

Do you have widespread conversation in your caucus and in the legislature on we got to do something about this.

Well, I think the facts speak for themselves.

There's 14 bills and there's 12 sponsors, and it's half and half on both sides of the aisle.

I have all three, three of our prior, police policemen or police force individuals.

You know, we have Harris on the bill.

We have a guy on the bill, and then we have, Tyrone Carter on the bill.

So, I mean, those are very big names as far as you want to pass something in the the police world.

That's a good start.

I've been working wit stakeholders for the past year, especially since the spring when we did a drone symposium and in the Capitol and brought 60 different stakeholders to a meeting to talk about drones.

That was prior to pushing out a bill side.

Representative, what do you think of the governor's gun package?

I'm I' not prepared to speak on that.

I don't know, you know, you can pass a lot of laws on guns, but you're you're never going to probably fix the problem, which is people.

It's a people problem.

I mean, in my viewpoint, it's a people problem.

Whether you say it's a mental health proble or not, it's a people problem.

People kill other people when they're bad.

And we see that, you know it doesn't have to just be guns.

So youd be a no vote on the assault weapons ban?

I probably would be.

Yes.

And I mean, I would have to see it.

I would have to see it.

But I'm pretty certain I'd be a no vote.

It depends, you know, on what they're they're saying.

I mean, the AR 15 can put out just as many bullets as a semiautomatic rifle.

That's not an AR model.

So what is the definitio of an assault rifle automatic.

I mean, those are outlawed already.

Representativ you've had a lot of experience in the military, that, that you bring to this job.

What is your biggest fear, that that worries you and that drives you to be a public servant and do this job?

Well, I'll tell you what got me into politics to begin with was Covid.

I mean, it really was.

I'm a business owner as well.

And watching what happened to small businesses in our state was infuriating.

I was deployed overseas in 2021 during Covid, and came back.

It was worse than when I left at the beginning of 2020.

And I was very upset that, you know, how the UIA, the dysfunction of the Unemployment Insurance Agency, that the lockdowns that that hurt small business, not not so much the large businesses, they were allowed to stay open, but small businesses were shut down.

Lots of people lost their their investments.

They lost their life savings.

And you know, when you start small business, yo put everything you have into it.

But to be, you know pushed down by the government, that was wrong.

So that inspired you to run?

That inspired me to run.

Yes, sir.

And then once I got up here, drive in two hours.

It's two hours long.

Drive from Erie, Michigan, two hours each way.

And I go home each nigh at four hours, 12 hours a week.

Why am I driving up here?

What is my mission?

And so as a veteran, we always have to have some mission.

What drives us?

And so it became Homeland Security.

I petitioned Speaker Hall.

I've been working with him since last year.

Representative, thanks for showing up on our program.

This.

That went by fast, didn't it?

That's it?

Mission accomplished You were just getting started?

We're just we are just getting started in this.

I got to get out of here Representative.

This bill package is a first step.

I'll see you next wee for more Off the Record, folks.

Come on back.

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