>>> HELLO, EVERYONE, AND WELCOME TO "AMANPOUR & CO." HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.

THE UNITED NATIONS NOW SAYS THAT BOTH HAMAS AND ISRAEL HAVE COMMITTED WAR CRIMES AS GAZANS FLEE AND HOSTAGES ARE STILL TRAPPED.

MY CONVERSATION WITH SHARONE WHOSE MOTHER WAS RELEASED BY HAMAS BUT WHOSE FATHER REMAINS CAPTIVE.

>>> THEN UNITED IN GRIEF.

A PALESTINIAN AND AN ISRAELI WHO LOST CHILDREN TO THE CONFLICT YEARS AGO SHARE THEIR MESSAGE OF PEACE AND HOPE.

>>> ALSO AHEAD, BEING AN ARAB ISRAELI -- TALKS TO MICHEL MARTIN ABOUT STRADDLING TWO WORLDS.

>>> PLUS 34 YEARS AGO TODAY THE BERLIN WAR CAME DOWN, AND WE GO INTO OUR ARCHIVE TO BRING YOU THE MAN WHO MADE IT HAPPEN, THE LAST SOVIET LEADER MIKHAIL GORBACHEV.

>>> "AMANPOUR AND COMPANY" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT.

CANDACE KING WEIR.

THE FAMILY FOUNDATION OF LEILA AND MICKEY STRAUS.

JIM ATTWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS.

MARK J. BLECHNER.

SETON J. MELVIN.

CHARLES ROSENBLUM.

KOO AND PATRICIA YUEN, COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES.

BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG.

>>> ADDITIONAL SUPPORT PROVIDED BY THESE FUNDERS, AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

>>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE.

I'M CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR IN LONDON.

A SEA OF HUMANITY ESCAPING NORTHERN GAZA.

THOUSAND OF PALESTINIANS CONTINUE TO WALK MILES ON FOOT IN A DESPERATE BID FOR SAFETY FROM ISRAEL'S OFFENSIVE.

THE IDF HAS ALLOWED ANOTHER EVACUATION PAUSE, THE FIFTH SO FAR, AND A NUMBER OF PEOPLE FLEEING SOUTH IS INCREASING EVERY DAY.

THIS AS THE U.N. SAYS BLUNTLY THAT BOTH HAMAS AND ISRAEL HAVE COMMITTED WAR CRIMES IN THIS WAR.

>> THE ATROCITIES THAT HAVE BEEN CREATED BY PALESTINIAN ARMED GROUPS ON THE 7th OF OCTOBER WERE HEINOUS, WAR CRIMES AS IS THE CONTINUED HOLDING OF HOSTAGES.

THE COLLECTIVE PUNISHMENT BY ISRAEL OF PALESTINIAN CIVILIANS IS ALSO A WAR CRIME AS IS UNLAWFUL FORCEFUL EVACUATION OF CIVILIANS.

>> NOW, ISRAELI, AMERICAN, AND QATARI INTELLIGENCE CHIEFS MET IN DOHA TODAY FOR HOSTAGE NEGOTIATIONS.

OVER 200 TAKEN BY HAMAS AND OTHER GROUPS ARE STILL NOT FREE.

WHAT LITTLE WE DO KNOW ABOUT THEIR CONDITIONS COMES MOSTLY FROM ONE WOMAN.

IN '85 BY OCTOBER # 75th SHE WAS GRABBED STILL IN HER NIGHTGOWN TAKEN BY HAMAS INTO GAZA.

SHE IS ONE OF ONLY FOUR PEOPLE TO BE RELEASED SO FAR.

HER DAUGHTER WAS BY HER SIDE AT A TEL AVIV HOSPITAL AS SHE EXPLAINED THE SPIDER WEB OF TUNNELS THAT SHE WAS HELD IN.

BUT THE FAMILY NIGHTMARE CONTINUES.

SHARONE'S ELDERLY FATHER IS STILL BEING HELD.

AND WHEN WE SPOKE THIS WEEK ONE MONTH SINCE THE ATROCITIES SHE CALLED ON THE GOVERNMENT TO PUT THE FATE OF THE HOSTAGES FIRST.

WELCOME BACK TO THE PROGRAM.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> THE LAST TIME WAS WHEN YOU HEARD YOUR FATHER HAD BEEN RELEASED.

YOU'VE BEEN BACK AND YOU'VE SEEN YOUR MOM.

TELL ME HOW YOU'RE FEELING RIGHT NOW.

>> I FEEL DESPERATE.

I FEEL MY MOM IS A RAY OF LIGHT.

I THINK SO MANY PEOPLE HAVE HAD IT IS A RAY OF HOPE.

IT REALLY IS A RAY OF LIGHT BUT THERE'S A HUGE DARKNESS.

WE'RE STILL MISSING 75 PEOPLE FROM MY COMMUNITY.

MY FATHER IS STILL MISSING.

TODAY THE NUMBER DROPPED BY TWO BECAUSE TWO, A FATHER AND A SON WERE IDENTIFIED AS MURDEREDCH THE NUMBER OF THE MURDERS HAS GONE DOWN -- >> YOU MEAN INSIDE ISRAEL, INSIDE THE TUNNELS.

>> IN MY KIBBUTZ.

AND WE CAN'T BEGIN TO PROPERLY MOURN THE DEAD UNTIL WE HAVE OUR PEOPLE BACK.

>> YOU'VE BEEN CLEAR ALONG WITH A LOT OF HOSTAGE FAMILIES THAT YOU BELIEVE THE GOVERNMENT'S FIRST AND FOREMOST DUTY IS TO THE HOSTAGES.

DO YOU BELIEVE THAT IS WHAT'S HAPPENING IN THIS CURRENT WAR ON GAZA SINCE THE ATROCITIES IN YOUR COUNTRY?

>> I WOULD LIKE TO BELIEVE.

BUT DO I BELIEVE?

I WILL BELIEVE IT WHEN I SEE EVERYONE HAS COME HOME SAFE.

I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF CONFLICTING INTERESTS.

SOME OF THEM ARE MEDIUM AND LONG-TERM.

THE SHORT-TERM MUST BE THE RETURN OF THE HOSTAGES.

I DON'T FEEL THAT IT'S REALLY AT THE FOREMOST OF EVERYBODY'S MIND IN THE GOVERNMENT.

>> SO DO YOU BELIEVE -- AND I HATE TO ASK YOU THIS -- WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT YOUR 83-YEAR-OLD FATHER?

DO YOU BELIEVE HE SURVIVED?

HE WAS WOUNDED AS YOU TOLD US BEFORE WHEN HE WAS KIDNAPPED, AND THERE'S BEEN INCREDIBLE BOMBING ISRAEL SAYS OF THE TUNNEL SYSTEMS.

DO YOU BELIEVE THAT THERE'S STILL HOPE THAT YOU'LL SEE HIM AGAIN?

>> WHEN I SAT WITH YOU HERE LAST TIME I WASN'T SURE AT ALL THAT I WOULD SEE MY MOM AGAIN, SO I BELIEVE THAT THERE IS A CHANCE.

I THINK IT IS SLIMMER THAN WITH MY MOM.

AND I THINK IT'S VERY HARD TO BE IN THIS STATE OF NOT KNOWING FOR SO LONG.

I KNOW FROM MY MOM THAT THEY DID GIVE THEM MEDICAL -- BASIC MEDICAL CARE AND TRY TO GIVE THEM SOME OF THE MEDICINE.

THIS IS GREAT.

THIS IS A REASON FOR HOPE.

BUT IT'S SO HARD TO SAY.

>> YOUR MOTHER AND MAYBE YOUR WHOLE FAMILY CAME UNDER ATTACK FROM CERTAIN QUARTERS OF THE ISRAELI PUBLIC WHEN SHE CAME OUT, AND WITH GREAT HUMANE GESTURES DIDN'T RAGE AND RANT AND RAVE.

SHE SAID WHAT YOU SAID, THEY TREATED US HUMANELY.

WERE YOU SURPRISED AT THE REACTION THAT YOUR MOTHER GOT?

>> NO.

IN THE SENSE THAT WITHIN ISRAEL THERE'S A HUGE FIGHT.

MY PARENTS WENT ON DEMONSTRATION EVERY WEEK FOR THE LAST WEEKS BEFORE THE WAR AGAINST THE GOVERNMENT AND THE DEMOCRATIC REFORMS -- NONDEMOCRATIC REFORMS, I SHOULD SAY.

THEY WERE SITTING EVERY WEEK.

THEY WOULD TAKE THEIR CHAIRS.

SO THERE IS A HUGE CONFLICT WITHIN ISRAEL SOCIETY, AND MY PARENTS ARE VERY FIRMLY ON ONE SIDE.

AND SO IT IS UNSURPRISING THAT MY MOM LIVING BY HER BELIEF WILL DRAW FIRE FROM OTHER QUARTERS.

>> HOW IS SHE NOW?

>> MY MOM IS VERY WELL IN THE SENSE SHE'S GETTING STRONGER EVERY DAY.

SHE HAS COME BACK AS HERSELF, AND IT'S A HUGE, HUGE GIFT.

SHE CRACKS JOKES.

SHE'S FULL OF LIFE.

SHE WANTS TO KNOW WHAT HAPPENED.

>> BUT DIDN'T CRACK HER SPIRIT.

>> NO, NO.

I THINK -- I THINK NOT.

AND I THINK THAT THE PEOPLE THAT LOOKED AFTER THEM WERE VERY DIFFERENT TO THE PEOPLE WHO COMMITTED THE ATROCITIES.

AND WE -- I THINK MY MOM'S STORY DOES WHAT IT SHOULD DO.

IT COMPLICATES THE SITUATION.

IT BREAKS THE ABILITY OF PEOPLE TO GO BLACK AND WHITE.

IT BREAKS OUR ABILITY TO CHOOSE WHICH FLAG WE SUPPORT.

IT SHOWS US THAT THERE ARE HUMAN BEINGS ON BOTH SIDES AND THAT THOSE HUMAN BEINGS, THOSE WHO BELIEVE IN THE SPECIALNESS AND THE GRACIOUSNESS OF LIFE, ALL LIFE, THOSE PEOPLE SHOULD COME CENTER STAGE AND MAKE SENSE OF THIS WORLD.

>> IT'S REMARKABLE WHAT YOU SAY GIVEN YOUR SITUATION AND WHAT YOU'RE SUFFERING ALONG WITH SO MANY OF YOUR COMMUNITY.

YOUR MOTHER, AGAIN, RECEIVED HORRENDOUS TROLLING BACKLASH, HATE AFTER WHEN SHE TURNED AROUND, SHOOK HANDS AND SAID SHALOM TO THE MASKED HAMAS FIGHTER, I GUESS, WHO WAS THE LAST POINT OF CONTACT BEFORE SHE WAS RELEASED.

WHAT DID YOU MAKE OF THAT?

AND WHAT DID SHE SAY ABOUT THAT PERSON AND THE NATURE OF THE TUNNELS AND THINGS IN WHICH THEY WERE KEPT?

>> MY MOM SAID PEOPLE ARE PEOPLE, AND SHE UNDERSTAND HAVING LIVED NEXT TO THAT BORDER FOR 65 YEARS THAT THERE'S A TERRORIST ORGANIZATION THAT TOOK OVER CALLED HAMAS, BUT SHE ALSO KNOW THE PEOPLE THAT SHE KNEW MAYBE HE'S THE SON OF SOMEBODY THAT WORKED, YOU KNOW, IN OUR KIBBUTZ 40 YEARS AGO.

THESE ARE OUR NEIGHBORS.

WE HAVE RELATIONSHIP WITH THEM.

WE HAVE HAD RELATIONSHIPS WITH THEM.

THERE'S PEOPLE THAT I REMEMBER FROM MY CHILDHOOD.

I LEARNED SO MUCH ABOUT LIFE AND -- >> PALESTINIANS.

>> YES, ABSOLUTELY FROM GAZA.

MANY OF THEM, THERE WERE TWO GUYS THAT WORKED IN MY KIBBUTZ ALL OF MY CHILDHOOD, YOU KNOW, ONE WAS TALL AND ONE WAS SHORT.

AND THEY LISTENED TO -- >> A FAMOUS EGYPTIAN SINGER.

>> YES.

AND, YOU KNOW, IT'S PART OF THE MUSIC OF OUR LIVE.

THESE ARE OUR NEIGHBORS.

PEOPLE FORGET IT, YOU KNOW.

THEY STILL HAVE MANY PEOPLE THAT WORK IN ISRAEL IN A BETTER TIME.

>> THE VIDEO WE TALK ABOUT WAS SHOT BY HAMAS, AND WE'RE OBLIGED TO SAY THAT.

DID SHE FEEL FORCED TO MAKE THAT HANDSHAKE?

DID SHE TELL YOU ABOUT WHY SHE DID IT?

>> I THINK, FIRST OF ALL, I WANT TO SAY THAT I DON'T THINK IT'S WISE TO SPEAK WIDELY ABOUT WHAT WAS SAID THERE BECAUSE AS I SAID MY MOM CAME BACK TO A PLACE WITH TROLLING, BUT HAMAS OCCUPIES THAT LAND.

SO I THINK IT'S NOT WISE TO EXPAND ON IT -- >> BECAUSE YOUR FATHER IS STILL THERE.

>> MY FATHER BUT ALSO THAT CONVERSATION WAS A PRIVATE CONVERSATION BETWEEN THEM, AND IT WAS A GESTURE OF PEACE.

AND I THINK THAT MY MOM SAW THIS PERSON AND HAD A CONVERSATION WITH HIM THAT IN WHICH THEY AGREED.

AND I THINK THAT BETWEEN HUMANS ACROSS THE DIVIDE THERE'S MUCH THAT CAN BE AGREED.

>> SHE ALSO SAID DURING HER PRESS CONFERENCE, "I WENT THROUGH HELL."

WHAT DID SHE MEAN BY THAT?

DESCRIBE THE HELL THAT SHE TALKED TO YOU ABOUT.

>> WELL, SHE TOLD A STORY IN THE PRESS CONFERENCE.

THEY WERE KIDNAPPED FROM THE HOUSE.

SIX MILITARY PERSONS CAME INTO THE ROOM.

AFTER SHOOTING THE DOOR, MY FATHER WAS INJURED IN HIS HAND.

IT WAS VERY EARLY IN THE MORNING.

THEY CAME HOME LATE THE NIGHT BEFORE.

MY FATHER WASN'T FEELING SO WELL.

SHE WAS THEN TAKEN BY A HAMAS MILITANT AND WRAPPED WITH A BLANKET AROUND HER BECAUSE SHE WAS WEARING HER NIGHTIE, NO SHOES, AND SHE WAS TAKEN ACROSS THE FIELDS.

THAT WAS HELL.

AND THOSE PEOPLE DIDN'T IN HER CASE, THE FIRST MILITANT NEEDED TO BRING PEOPLE BACK.

THEY WERE EFFICIENT, THEY WERE QUICK.

THEY TOOK HER THROUGH.

AS SHE DROVE, SHE SAW HUNDREDS OF MOB WITH STICKS AND WITH KNIVES RUNNING TOWARDS HER.

AND THEN SHE ARRIVED AND SHE WAS TAKEN IN A CAR, AND THEY WALKED FOR MILES UNDER THE GROUND.

>> MILES UNDER THE GROUND.

>> THAT'S WHAT SHE SAYS, YES.

>> AND, YOU KNOW, DIFFICULT TO EVEN COMPREHEND THAT THERE ARE MILES AND MILE OF THESE THINGS UNDER THE GROUND, WHICH THE IDF SAYS THAT THEY'RE BOMBING NOW.

YOU SPEAK THE LANGUAGE OF BRIDGE BUILDING.

YOU TALK ABOUT PEACE.

YOU TALK ABOUT, YOU KNOW, NEIGHBORS.

YOU KNOW THAT THERE ARE OTHER HOSTAGE FAMILIES WHO HAVE SPOKEN OUT AND SAY THAT ACTUALLY ISRAEL SHOULDN'T TAKE ANY HUMANITARIAN STEPS IN GAZA, NOBODY SHOULD, NOT THE EGYPTIANS, NOT THE U.N. WHILST THEIR FAMILY MEMBERS ARE STILL BEING HELD.

THEY'RE OPPOSED TO A CEASE-FIRE AND PAUSES UNTIL HOSTAGES ARE RELEASED.

YOU MUST UNDERSTAND THAT PERSPECTIVE.

>> WE DON'T KNOW IF MY FATHER IS DEAD OR ALIVE.

I DO THINK THAT SOMEHOW ALONG THE LINE THERE WAS A MISTAKE MADE.

I THINK THE TWO COULD BE CONNECTED.

IF WE ARE OFFERING CORRIDOR FOR HUMANITARIAN AID TO GAZA WHY ARE WE NOT ALSO CONDITIONING IT WITH THE HUMANITARIAN AID FOR THE HOSTAGES?

THIS IS ONLY FAIR.

>> HUMANITARIAN AID OR EXIT FOR THE HOSTAGES?

>> OBVIOUSLY I WOULD LIKE THEM TO EXIT AS SOON AS POSSIBLE, BUT I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW HE IS ALIVE, THAT HE'S BEING TREATED, THAT HE'S GOT THE MEDICINE HE WANTS, YOU KNOW?

OBVIOUSLY I WOULD LIKE HIM BACK WITH US.

OBVIOUSLY I WOULD LIKE THIS MONTHS OF FEAR.

WE'RE DESPERATE, WE ARE SO DESPERATE.

WE'RE BEYOND DESPERATE.

BUT AS A MINIMUM CAN WE NOT JUST KNOW HOW ARE THEY FARING?

THIS IS NOT TOO MUCH TO ASK, IS IT?

AND I DO FEEL THE TWO SHOULD BE CONDITIONED ON THE OTHER.

I WISH NO ILL ON ANY CIVILIAN.

I FEEL REALLY HORRIFIED BY THE AMOUNT OF TRAUMA AND LOSS AND DESTRUCTION THAT WE ARE EXPERIENCING.

THERE'S NO JOY IN IT WHATSOEVER.

ON THURSDAY I VISITED MY PARENTS' BURNT OUT HOUSE.

IT'S ALL GONE.

THERE'S NOTHING THERE.

65 YEARS OF LIFE, WORK, OF MY MOM PHOTOGRAPHY, MY FATHER -- EVERYTHING.

AND WHILE I WAS THERE I STOOD BY THE DOOR WHERE MY FATHER WAS SHOT, AND THERE'S FIVE BULLET HOLES.

AND YOU CAN SEE THEM.

AND I WAS FILMING THEM.

AND THE SOUND TRACK WAS BOMBS FALLING ON GAZA.

IT'S NOT -- IT'S NOT WHAT HUMANITY IS FOR.

IT'S -- IT'S OUR FAILING, YOU KNOW?

AND I THINK IT'S A FAILING OF THE POLITICAL SYSTEM.

IT'S A FAILING OF EVERYTHING.

BUT FOR ME I DON'T FEEL THAT THE SOLUTION WILL BE TO KILL EVERYONE ON THE OTHER SIDE.

I THINK THAT WE ARE HERE.

WE HAVE TO DISTINGUISH BETWEEN TWO CAMPS.

THOSE WHO BELIEVE THAT THERE ARE TWO NATIONS THAT NEEDS TO FIND A FAIR WAY TO LIVE BETWEEN THE RIVER AND THE SEA, AND THOSE ON BOTH SIDES WHO BELIEVE OTHERWISE.

I'M NOT COMPARING WHO IS WORSE.

I THINK COMPARISONS IS A RACE TO THE BOTTOM.

BUT I'M SO TOTALLY CONVINCED THAT ALL OF US IN THE WEST, IN THE EAST, EVERYWHERE MUST SUPPORT THOSE WHO BELIEVE THAT THE TWO NATIONS SHOULD LIVE ALONGSIDE.

THEY WOULD NOT IMMEDIATELY BE ABLE TO LIVE TOGETHER AFTER THIS, BUT ALONGSIDE EACH OTHER IN A WAY THAT SUPPORTS LIFE.

>> IT'S ALWAYS AMAZING TO HEAR FROM YOU.

THANK YOU.

>> YOU'RE WELCOME.

>> AND WE'RE SO GLAD ABOUT YOUR MOTHER.

AND EVERYBODY'S PRAYERS ARE WITH YOUR FATHER AND ALL THE OTHERS WHO ARE THERE.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

>> AND AS WE SAID, THERE ARE APPARENTLY NEGOTIATIONS TO TRY TO GET MORE HOSTAGES OUT.

>>> NOW TO A WAR STORY YOU MAY NOT HAVE HEARD, HUNDREDS OF PALESTINIAN WORKERS HELD BY THE IDF IN ISRAEL HAVE BEEN RETURNED TO GAZA BY THE ISRAELI MILITARY.

THESE WORKERS' PERMITS WERE REVOKED AFTER OCTOBER 7th.

MANY TRIED TO GET TO THE OCCUPIED WEST BANK WHERE SOME TOLD CORRESPONDENT NADYA BASHIR, THEY WERE BLINDFOLDED AND TORTURED.

>> BOUND, BLINDFOLDED AND SOME EVEN STRIPPED.

IN THIS VIDEO THE JEERS OF ISRAELI SOLDIERS ABUSING AND MOCKING PALESTINIAN WORKERS FROM GAZA, DETAINED IN ISRAEL JUST DAYS AFTER THE BEGINNING OF THE WAR.

AT THE CROSSING MEN WAIT ANXIOUSLY HOPING THAT THEIR BROTHERS, FATHERS, SONS ARE AMONG THE PALESTINIAN WORKERS WHO HAVE FINALLY BEEN RETURNED TO GAZA BY THE ISRAELI MILITARY.

THOUSANDS OF GAZAN WORKERS LIKE THESE MEN HAD THEIR PERMIT TO WORK IN ISRAEL REVOKED AFTER THE OCTOBER 7th HAMAS ATTACK.

BUT WITH NO OPTION TO RETURN HOME, MANY ATTEMPTED TO FLEE TO THE OCCUPIED WEST BANK ONLY TO THEN BE DETAINED.

THEY TIED OUR HANDS BEHIND OUR BACKS, BLINDFOLDED US, AND LED US ONTO A BUS.

I DON'T KNOW WHERE THEY TOOK US, BUT THERE WERE ABOUT 2 TO 300 GAZAN WORKERS HELD THERE.

SOME OF THE MEN ARE VISIBLY WEAK.

AND WITH EACH CROSSING, MORE STORIES OF ABUSE AND EVEN TORTURE.

ONE MAN TELLING CNN HE WITNESSED THE USE OF ELECTRIC SHOCKS ON DETAINEES.

THEY PUT US IN CAGES LIKE DOGS.

THEY BEAT US AND INSULTED US.

THEY DIDN'T CARE IF YOU WERE SICK AND INJURED.

SOME MEN EVEN DIED ON THE WAY HERE BECAUSE THEY WERE BEATEN AND SUBJECTED TO ELECTRIC SHOCKS.

EVERY DAY FELT LIKE DEATH.

THEY WOULD GIVE US A CUCUMBER TO SHARE BETWEEN SIX PEOPLE AND A SMALL PIECE OF BREAD.

AN ISRAELI SECURITY OFFICIAL COULD NOT SAY WHETHER ELECTRIC SHOCK TACTICS WERE USED BUT TOLD CNN THE IDF IS AWARE OF SEVERAL INCIDENTS OF ABUSE AGAINST THE GAZAN WORKERS AND PALESTINIANS IN THE OCCUPIED WEST BANK, ADDING THAT THESE CASES ARE BEING TREATED SERIOUSLY WITH DISCIPLINARY ACTIONS SAID TO HAVE BEEN TAKEN AGAINST SEVERAL SOLDIERS IDENTIFIED IN SOCIAL MEDIA VIDEO.

BUT NGO WORKERS AT THE PALESTINIAN PRISONER SOCIETY SAY THIS IS A SYSTEMIC ISSUE WITH FEW LEGAL SAFE GUARDS IN PLACE FOR PALESTINIANS.

WE RECEIVED HORRIFIC FIRST-HAND TESTIMONIES, SHE TELLS ME.

THEY DIDN'T DO ANYTHING WRONG.

THEY WEREN'T CHARGED WITH ANYTHING.

YET MANY OF THEM WERE INTERROGATED AND SYSTEMATICALLY TORTURED.

THEY WERE ABUSED AND BRUTALLY BEATEN.

THEY FACED ALL KINDS OF DEHUMANIZATION AND INSULTS.

IN THE OCCUPIED WEST BANK THEY BROUGHT THOUSANDS OF GAZAN WORKERS STILL STRANDED DESPERATE TO BE REUNITED WITH LOVED ONES, PRAYING EVERY DAY FOR THEIR SAFETY.

HE WAS WORKING IN ISRAEL WITH HIS SON, BUT HE HASN'T SEEN OR HEARD FROM HIM IN ALMOST A MONTH.

I DON'T KNOW WHERE HE IS, WHETHER HE'S IN PRISON OR DEAD.

HE'S MY SON, MY WHOLE LIFE.

HE CAME HERE TO WORK, TO BE ABLE TO FEED HIS CHILDREN.

HE WASN'T HERE TO JOIN IN ANY FIGHT.

HE WASN'T HERE TO CAUSE TROUBLE.

BUT JUST AS THERE ARE FEARS FOR THOSE STILL MISSING, AT THIS SHELTER OF GAZAN WORKERS THERE'S INDESCRIBABLE ANGUISH OF THE FAMILY MEMBERS BACK HOME IN GAZA.

MY FAMILY IS NOW SPREAD OUT ALL ACROSS GAZA.

THEY ALL HAD TO LEAVE THE JABALIA REFUGEE CAMP BECAUSE OF THE AIR STRIKES.

WHEN I AM ABLE TO REACH THEM, ALL I HEAR IS MISERY.

EVERY DAY IS ANOTHER CATASTROPHE.

FOR WEEKS MANY OF THESE MEN HAVE HAD NO CONTACT WITH THEIR FAMILIES.

THE GAZA THEY LEFT BEHIND NOW CHANGED FOREVER.

BUT FOR THOSE NOW ACROSS THE BORDER, THE RELIEF OF BEING FREED FROM DETENTION AND REUNITING WITH LOVED ONES IS CLEAR, BUT MANY HAVE NOT RETURNED.

WITH THOUSANDS STILL STUCK IN THE OCCUPIED WEST BANK AND OTHERS STILL MISSING.

>> NADYA BASHIR WAS REPORTING FROM ROMALLA.

AND JUST TO SAY THE DEATH TOLL IN THE OCCUPIED WEST BANK SINCE OCTOBER 7th HAS NOW RISEN TO 176 ACCORDING TO THE PALESTINIAN MINISTRY OF HEALTH.

THAT'S ADDED TO NEARLY 11,000 DEATHS IN GAZA, AGAIN, ACCORDING TO THE SAME MINISTRY AND 1,400 DEAD IN ISRAEL ON OCTOBER 7th, ACCORDING TO THE GOVERNMENT.

SO HOW DOES ANYONE OVERCOME THAT MUCH TRAGEDY, THAT MUCH GRIEF?

PERHAPS SOME OF THOSE WHO HAVE LOST THE MOST CAN GUIDE THE WAY.

PEOPLE LIKE ROBI DAMELIN WHOSE SON DAVID WAS KILLED BY A PALESTINIAN SNIPER IN 2002.

FIVE YEARS LATER BASSAM ARAMIN'S DAUGHTER WAS KILLED BY AN IZALERALY SOLDIER'S RUBBER BULLET.

I SPOKE TO BOTH OF THEM ABOUT THEIR WORK TOGETHER AND WITH OTHER FAMILIES FINDING HOPE AND HUMANITY AMIDST SUCH SORROW.

ROBI AND BASSAM, WELCOME.

WE SPOKE TO YOU SEVERAL YEARS AGO ABOUT THE TERRIBLE PAIN OF LOSING CHILDREN.

YOU BOTH LOST CHILDREN, BUT YOU WERE ABLE TO SOMEHOW SHAPE THAT INTO A PATH TOWARDS HOPE AND PEACE.

ROBI, AFTER WHAT HAPPENED ON OCTOBER 7th, DO YOU STILL BELIEVE THAT?

>> OH, ABSOLUTELY, OTHERWISE THERE'S NO REASON FOR ME TO DO THIS WORK.

EVEN MORE SO IT IS ONE OF THE SADDEST TIMES I'D EVER EXPERIENCED.

AND I HAVE A VERY DEAR FRIEND CALLED VIVIAN SILVER WHO'S ONE OF THE HOSTAGES.

BUT THERE ARE POINTS OF LIGHT HERE.

DO YOU KNOW THAT -- CAME TO THE RESCUE OF THOSE KIDS AT THE MUSIC CONCERT.

THERE ARE THINGS THAT PEOPLE ARE NOT REPORTING THAT ARE SO HUMAN, AND I KNOW THAT THERE ARE MANY, MANY MOTHERS IN THE SOUTH WHO FOUGHT LIKE WE DID BEFORE THIS HAPPENED, AND WE NEED TO VISIT THEM AND GIVE THEM SOME SOLACE BECAUSE ONLY MOTHERS, I THINK, FROM MY OWN EXPERIENCE, MOTHERS WHO HAVE LOST CHILDREN WERE THE ONLY ONES THAT REALLY UNDERSTOOD THIS FEELING.

>> SO LET ME ASK, BASSAM, YOU'RE NOT A MOTHER.

YOU'RE A FATHER.

YOU LOST YOUR DAUGHTER TO ISRAELI RUBBER BULLETS OUTSIDE A SCHOOL.

DO YOU FEEL THE SAME WAY NOW SEEING NOT ONLY WHAT HAPPENED ON OCTOBER 7th TO ISRAELIS BUT WHAT IS HAPPENING IN THE OCCUPIED WEST BANK WHERE YOU ARE AND ESPECIALLY IN GAZA TO CIVILIANS RIGHT NOW?

>> UNFORTUNATELY, THE CONFLICT IT DIDN'T START THREE WEEKS AGO.

IT'S DECADES BEFORE, AND WE ALWAYS SAID ONE DAY IT WOULD BLOW UP.

OTHERWISE IT WILL BE A DISAST.

AND WE PAID THE PRICE ALL THE TIME IT'S THE CIVILIANS.

IT'S ALWAYS A DISASTER.

BUT AS ROBI SAID, IT'S OUR MISSION.

IT'S EVEN THE DARKEST TIMES TO CONTINUE RAISING OUR VOICE FOR PEACE AND RECONCILIATION, TO SAVE THE CHILDREN OF GAZA, TO SAVE THE CHILDREN, THE CIVILIANS.

THERE ARE CIVILIANS THAT HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE FIGHTING, AND THEY NEED TO BE IN A SAFER PLACE TO LIVE TOGETHER.

>> YOUR VOICES ARE VERY RARE, ALTHOUGH, ROBI, YOU SAID THERE ARE PLENTY OF PEOPLE WHO FEEL LIKE YOU AND BASSAM.

BUT THIS MOMENT FEELS LIKE ONE OF GRIEF, OBVIOUSLY, SHOCK, ANGER, REVENGE.

DO YOU THINK, ROBI, THAT THERE IS SPACE TO TRY TO FIND THE HUMANITY AGAIN?

AND I'M JUST GOING TO ASK YOU BECAUSE YOU TOLD "THE TIMES" NEWSPAPER IN JULY I'VE RECEIVED DEATH THREATS MAINLY FROM ISRAELI SETTLERS TELLING ME I SHOULD BURN IN AUSCHWITZ AND PALESTINIANS SHOULD COME AND RAPE ME.

THIS IS BECAUSE OF YOUR ACTIVITIES, YOUR CROSS COMMUNITY ACTIVITIES.

OBVIOUSLY THIS WAS BEFORE OCTOBER 7th.

>> I JUST GOT UP BECAUSE THERE'S A SIREN AND ROCKETS OUTSIDE MY HOUSE.

THIS IS THE WAY WE'RE LIVING NOW, AND IT IS OF COURSE VERY FRIGHTENING.

AND I THINK FEAR IN MANY WAYS IS WHAT'S CREATING THIS HATRED.

BUT I DON'T SEE A TIME NOW TO GIVE UP.

THIS IS A TIME WHERE WE HAVE TO STAND UP AND DO WHATEVER WE CAN TO MAKE THE GOVERNMENT HAVE A CEASE-FIRE, TO BRING BACK ALL THE HOSTAGES.

TO ALL THE MOTHERS AND CHILDREN IN GAZA, CAN YOU IMAGINE IF YOU GROUP UP IN GAZA AND EVERY TWO YEARS THERE WOULD BE A WAR AND THERE WOULD BE BOMBS AND YOU WOULDN'T HAVE FREEDOM OF MOVEMENT?

OR YOU LIVED IN THE WEST BANK AND YOU ALSO DIDN'T HAVE FREEDOM OF MOVEMENT, BUT IT IS VERY TRAGIC AS WELL.

IF YOU GREW UP IN THAT ENVIRONMENT, AND IF YOU GREW UP IN ONE OF THE KIBBUTZ AND YOUR LIFE WAS CONSTANTLY BOMBARDED WITH ROCKETS.

SO WE CAN'T GO ON LIVING LIKE THIS.

WE HAVE TO FIND ANOTHER WAY.

AND PERHAPS THIS TERRIBLE, TERRIBLE WAR WILL END AND PEOPLE WILL REALIZE THAT UNLESS WE TALK TO EACH OTHER, UNLESS WE FIND A WAY TO EXIST SIDE BY SIDE, WE DON'T HAVE TO FALL IN LOVE.

WE DON'T HAVE TO DO ANYTHING.

WE HAVE TO ALSO END THE OCCUPATION.

THAT IS THE MORAL FIBER OF MY COUNTRY.

I CANNOT WATCH AND THERE IS NO ACCOUNTABILITY.

I LOVE THIS COUNTRY.

IT DOESN'T MEAN BECAUSE I AM ABLE TO CRITICIZE THAT I -- THAT I DON'T LOVE ISRAEL.

I DO.

I'M TERRIFIED OF THE ANTI-SEMITISM THAT IS HAPPENING ALL OVER THE WORLD ON AMERICAN CAMPUSES.

>> BASSAM, I WANT TO ASK YOU A QUESTION BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY ISLAMAPHOBIA IS ALSO RAMPANT AND INCREASING.

YOU JUST HEARD AN ISRAELI JEW TALK ABOUT THE DEEP EMPATHY YOUR PEOPLE IN CRISIS, THE OCCUPATION AND ALL THE THINGS THAT SHE OUTLINED.

DO YOU FEEL THAT SAME EMPATHY FOR ISRAELI PEOPLE WHO ARE THE CIVILIANS WHO ARE JUST LIVING THEIR LIVES AND THEN GOT CAUGHT UP IN THIS SLAUGHTER?

AND I ASK YOU THAT BECAUSE YOU YOURSELF ABANDONED THE ROLE OF SO-CALLED FREEDOM FIGHTER.

YOU WERE A FATAH MILITANT FREEDOM FIGHTER, WHATEVER YOU'D LIKE TO SAY AND YOU ABANDONED THAT PATH.

>> NO, IN FACT I I DIDN'T ABANDON.

I'M STILL A FIGHTER, BUT IT'S A FIGHTER FOR PEACE.

I WAS IN FOR SEVEN YEARS WHEN I WAS 17 YEARS OLD.

WHAT I WANT TO SAY IT IS EXACTLY THE DUTY OF ISRAEL THEMSELVES TO END THIS OCCUPATION BECAUSE THIS IS OUR COMMON ENEMY.

WHY ARE WE FIGHTING?

WHY ARE WE KILLING EACH OTHER?

WHY DO WE HATE EACH OTHER?

WE ARE A NORMAL PEOPLE.

BECAUSE WE LIVE IN AN ABNORMAL SITUATION.

WE'VE SEEN IN, FOR EXAMPLE, THE LAST THREE WEEKS JERICHO IS UNDER VERY HELVY SIEGE, VERY BRUTAL BEHAVIOR THE SOLDIERS.

AROUND THE CHECK POINTS YOU CANNOT MOVE IN OR OUT.

IT'S NOT ONLY KILLING THE MORAL FIBER, IT'S KILLING THE ISRAELS PHYSICALLY THEMSELVES.

SO I CARE ABOUT THEM OF COURSE.

BECAUSE THIS IS OUR COMMON ENEMY.

BECAUSE I RECOGNIZE THE HUMANITY OF THE ISRAELIS.

WITHOUT OCCUPATION, WITHOUT AGGRESSION -- EVEN SAYS OPPRESSION CREATES RESISTANCE.

WE WANT TO LIVE IN A NORMAL PLACE, A NORMAL SPACE ISRAELI AND PALESTINIANS AND STOP BEING VICTIMS BOTH SIDES TO THE POLICY OF THE OTHERS.

STOP THE WAR.

GAZA HAS BECOME LIKE A GHETTO.

THERE'S NO SAFE PLACE.

FOR THOSE KIDS ISRAEL SHOULD BE DIFFERENT THAN HAMAS.

ISRAEL IS A STATE.

YOU CANNOT SAY I'M GOING TO GO AND TAKE REVENGE.

YOU ARE NOT A GANG LEADER.

AT THE SAME TIME YOU CAN SEE THE WEST BANK WITH THOSE VERY RADICAL FASCIST SETTLERS.

THEY CANNOT SEE US ON THE STREETS, SO THIS HAVE CONSEQUENCES.

I BELIEVE WHAT'S HAPPENED IT'S TERRIBLE.

I HAVE THE RIGHT TO TALK ABOUT THAT.

THIS IS MY HOME, MY FAITH THAT THE PALESTINIANS -- THERE'S AN ISRAELI AMBASSADOR.

WE CAN DO IT.

WE JUST NEED A BRAVE LEADER OR LEADERS TO TAKE US TOWARDS THE FUTURE FROM THE ATROCITIES AND VERY PAINFUL PAST.

>> AMAZING.

THANK YOU BOTH SO MUCH.

THAT YOU BOTH REMAIN FRIENDS AND ALLIES IS INCREDIBLY INSPIRING TO ALL OF US.

BASSAM, ROBI, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

SUCH PARTNERSHIP IN SUCH DIVISIVE TIMES, AND IT'S ALSO A MESSAGE SHARED BY OUR NEXT GUEST.

HE'S AN ARAB CITIZEN OF ISRAEL AND IN A RECENT ARTICLE SAID THAT HE FEELS AS THOUGH HIS STATE IS FIGHTING HIS OWN PEOPLE.

MOHAMED'S COUSIN WAS KILLED IN THE HAMAS ATTACKS ON OCTOBER 7th WHILST WORKING AS A PARAMEDIC AT THE NOVA MUSIC FESTIVAL.

HE SHARED THIS WITH PRESIDENT BIDEN WHEN HE VISITED RECENTLY AND NOW HE'S SHARING IT WITH MICHEL MARTIN AND ALL OF US.

>> THANK YOU, CHRISTIANE.

THANK YOU FOR SPEAKING WITH US.

>> VERY PLEASANT TO BE WITH YOU, MICHEL.

>> I'M SO SORRY WHAT BRINGS US TOGETHER.

I WANTED TO OFFER MY CONDOLENCES ON THE LOSS OF YOUR COUSIN.

TELL US ABOUT HIM.

>> HE WAS YOUR AVERAGE 23-YEAR-OLD HANDSOME YOUNG MAN FULL OF LIFE, FULL OF ENERGY.

AT AGE 16 HE DECIDED HE WANTS TO BE PARAMEDIC ALREADY AND HE STARTED HIS LIFE IN THE MEDICAL FIELD VERY, VERY EARLY.

HE WAS THE FIRST PERSON TO VOLUNTEER TO ANY ACTIVITY IN THE COMMUNITY, ALWAYS SMILING, LOTS OF FRIENDS AND HE WANT TO STUDY MEDICINE.

HE WENT TO MEDICAL SCHOOL IN THE COUNTRY OF GEORGIA AND THEN COVID HIT AND HE DIDN'T WANT TO WASTE HIS TIME.

HE WENT STRAIGHT TO IMPROVE HIS SKILLS AS A PARAMEDIC AND BECAME ALSO AN AMBULANCE DRIVER AND ENJOYED IT.

AND THEN HE STARTED THINKING ABOUT HOW TO MAKE HIS OWN COMPANY OF AMBULANCE SERVICES.

SO WAS VERY ASPIRATIONAL KID.

>> HE WAS AT THE MUSIC FESTIVAL THAT WE HAVE NOW LEARNED SO MUCH ABOUT BECAUSE THIS WAS ONE OF THE BIG SITES OF THE KILLINGS WHEN HAMAS ATTACKED ON OCTOBER 7th.

>> INDEED.

HE WAS STATIONED THERE ALREADY FROM THURSDAY AND DOING BASIC MEDICAL SERVICES, YOU KNOW, SOMEONE THAT SCRATCHES THEIR LEG, SOMEONE THAT DRINKS TOO MUCH IT WAS THINGS HE WAS EXPECTING AND ACTUALLY WAS TREATING.

HE DIDN'T EXPECT THIS TO HAPPEN.

HE DIDN'T EXPECT THE ATTACK.

AND IT CAUGHT EVERYONE BY SURPRISE, DEFINITELY HIM.

AND HE STARTED TREATING THE FIRST CASUALTIES, THE FIRST PEOPLE THAT GOT WOUNDED.

THE HEAD OF THE TEAM ASKED TO EVACUATE IMMEDIATELY.

HE REFUSED.

HE SAID, NO, I THINK I CAN MANAGE BECAUSE I SPEAK ARABIC.

AND THEY STARTED RUNNING AWAY BEGGING HIM TO LEAVE, AND HE INSISTED TO RUN TO YET ANOTHER INJURED PERSON AND TRYING TO CLOSE THEIR BLEEDING WOUNDS.

THAT SCENE LASTED VERY SHORT, FOR MAYBE 30, 40 SECONDS, NO LONGER THAN THAT BECAUSE WHEN THEY LOOKED BACK AT HIM AND THEY WERE STILL SCREAMING AT HIM TO LEAVE, AND THEY SAW HIM GETTING SHOT.

HIS TEAMMATES CAME LATER AND SHARED THE STORY OF HIS BRAVERY AND HOW HE WAS SELFLESS PERSON THAT JUST WANTED TO BE THERE TO FULFILL HIS HUMAN AND MEDICAL DUTY TO THE END.

I KNOW THAT HE WOULD HAVE TREATED ANY PERSON ON THE SCENE.

I MEAN THAT WAS THE KIND OF HUMAN HE WAS.

THAT WAS THE KIND OF PROFESSIONAL HE WAS.

HE DIDN'T ASK THE PEOPLE TREATING WHAT'S THEIR CULTURAL IDENTITY, ETHNIC IDENTITY, RELIGIOUS IDENTITY.

WHAT ARE THEIR POLITICAL PERSPECTIVE.

HE JUST KEPT TRYING FROM ONE WOUNDED PERSON TO ANOTHER UNTIL HE MET HIS DESTINY.

>> HOW -- HOW IS YOUR FAMILY DOING?

>> NOT EASY.

YOU KNOW, IT'S -- IT WAS STILL DEEP TRAGEDY FOR US.

BUT BECAUSE THE WAR AND THE VIOLENCE IS CONTINUING, IT'S HARD TO OVERCOME IT.

IT'S HARD TO MOVE ON BECAUSE WE CONTINUE TO SEE SCENES OF KILLING, AND IT'S PART OF THE SAME STORY.

SO THE STORY OF HIS DEATH KEEPS REPEATING ITSELF FOR US.

AND WE'RE NOT HAVING REALLY THE SPACE AND TIME TO SAY, OKAY, WE MOVE ONTO THE NEXT EVENT IN OUR LIFE.

THE EVENT IS STILL GOING.

>> ONE OF THE REASONS WE FOUND YOU IS THAT YOU PUBLISHED AN OPINION PIECE WHERE YOU TALKED ABOUT WHAT IT'S BEEN LIKE FOR ARAB-ISRAELI CITIZENS OR CITIZENS OF ISRAELI DESCENT IN THE WEEKS SINCE THE ATTACK.

THERE ARE WHAT 2.1 MILLION ISRAELI CITIZENS OF ARAB DESCENT, AND THEY ARE OF DIFFERENT RELIGIONS.

SOME PEOPLE ARE MUSLIM, SOME PEOPLE ARE CHRISTIAN, SOME PEOPLE ARE JEWS.

PEOPLE SPEAK ARABIC, SPEAK HEBREW, SPEAK ENGLISH.

HERE'S ONE OF THE THINGS YOU SAID.

IOYOU SAID ARAB CITIZENS OF ISRAEL LIKE MYSELF FIND OURSELVES IN EXTREMELY AWKWARD POSITIONS IN TIMES OF WAR, BUT THIS WAR IN PARTICULAR HAS PUT US UNDER UNPRECEDENTED STRESS.

COULD YOU SAY A BIT MORE ABOUT THAT?

>> WELL, I ADD ONE MORE INTERESTING SENTENCE THAT THEN I SAY THAT IT'S DIFFICULT TO BE WHEN YOUR COUNTRY IS AT WAR WITH YOUR PEOPLE.

AND FROM ONE END YOU WANT TO BE CLOSE TO YOUR COUNTRYMEN AND YOUR FELLOW COUNTRYMEN.

AND ISRAELI CASUALTIES -- AS I MENTION THE ISRAELI CASUALTIES SOME OF THEM ARE CHILDREN AND NEPHEWS OF MY FRIENDS, PEOPLE THAT I ASSOCIATE WITH AND I HAVE THEM FOR DINNER IN MY HOUSE.

AND NOW I FEEL THEIR PAIN.

AND ON THE PALESTINIAN SIDE WE ARE NOT JUST FROM ISRAELI DESCENT WE'RE PALESTINIANS.

WE'RE PALESTINIANS IN OUR ETHNIC IDENTITY.

WE DID NOT IMMIGRATE TO ISRAEL.

I ALWAYS SAY ISRAEL IMMIGRATED TO US.

WE'RE AN INDIGENOUS PALESTINIAN POPULATION, BUT WE ACCEPTED THE FATE FROM 1948 AS WE LIVE AS A NATIONAL MINORITY IN THE STATE OF ISRAEL, AS A SEPARATE DIFFERENT ETHNIC GROUP IN THE STATE OF ISRAEL.

SO WE KNOW HOW TO LIVE IN PEACE WITH ISRAELI JEWS.

WE DON'T KNOW HOW TO LIVE IN WAR WITH THEM.

BECAUSE IN WARTIME THEY RELATE TO US AS AN EXTENSION OF THE ENEMY.

THEY TREAT US AS AN EXTENSION OF THE ENEMY.

WE FEEL A GREAT DEAL OF WITCH HUNTING DURING THIS PERIOD WHERE WE'RE SILENCED IN A WAY THAT PREVENT US FROM -- THAT TRY NOT TO DISALLOW US FROM EXPRESSING OUR COMPASSIONATE FEELINGS TOWARDS OUR PALESTINIAN BROTHERS.

IT DOESN'T PEEN THAT WE SUPPORT HAMAS AND WE SUPPORT TERRORISTS AND WE SUPPORT THE ATTACKS ON ISRAELIS.

BUT WE FEEL COMPASSION TO THE PALESTINIAN CIVILIANS THAT ARE PAYING SUCH A HEAVY PRICE.

AND THAT SEEM TUESDAY BE A LEGITIMATE FEELING IN THE ISRAELI PUBLIC SCENE TODAY.

>> ONE OF THE THINGS YOU ALSO SAID IS THAT WE HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO FEEL SAFE IN OUR OWN COUNTRY AND NOT LIVE IN FEAR IN OUR OWN WORKPLACES AND ON UNIVERSITY CAMPUSES.

HOW IS WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT MANIFESTING ITSELF, THIS FEAR THAT YOU'RE EXPERIENCING?

>> IT'S REALLY BEYOND FEAR.

IT IS MANIFESTING ITSELF IN PRACTICAL MATTERS.

ARAB KRTZS HAVE BEEN ARRESTED SINCE THE BEGINNING OF THE WAR FOR PLACING SOME KIND OF A POST ON SOCIAL MEDIA.

WHAT'S HAPPENING IS THAT THE POLICE IS TRYING TO CREATE A CULTURE OF INTIMIDATION TOWARDS THE ARAB CITIZENS, AND THAT'S WHAT WE FEEL INTIMIDATED BY THIS.

WE'RE NOT ABLE TO ALLOW OURSELF TO EXPRESS EVEN IN PRAYER.

IT'S POSSIBLE TO EVEN EXPRESS IT -- TO PUT A PRAYER TO SAY WE PRAY FOR THE SOULS OF OUR PALESTINIAN CIVILIANS, WOMEN AND CHILDREN.

THAT WOULD BE SEEN AS AN ILLEGITIMATE ACT THAT COULD GET YOU FOR ONE OR TWO NIGHTS IN JAIL.

THERE WERE CHANTS AGAINST ARAB STUDENTS IN A CITY TO TAKE ARAB STUDENTS FROM THE COLLEGE THERE, AND THE CHANTS WERE DEATH TO THE ARABS AND THE KIDS HAVE TO BE EVACUATED, AND THEY CAN'T GO BACK TO THEIR UNIVERSITY TODAY.

THERE ARE SOME UNIVERSITIES THAT EXPELLED ARAB STUDENTS WITHOUT EVEN ASKING THEM FOR THEIR OPINION, JUST THE FACT THEY POSTED SOMETHING ON SOCIAL MEDIA.

THE WORST PART IS THAT THE MINISTER OF INTERNAL SECURITY WHO'S A VERY WELL-KNOWN RACIST, HE'S THE MINISTER OF INTERNAL SECURITY.

HE STARTED ARMING ISRAELI JEWS, AND WE ASKED OURSELVES WHO'S THAT WEAPON GOING TO BE FACING, A PERSONAL WEAPON IN THE HANDS OF ISRAELI JEWS.

I SEE MYSELF AND POTENTIALLY GOD FORBID MY CHILDREN THAT WOULD BE ON THE OTHER END OF THAT WEAPON.

IT IS SCARY TO BE AROUND ISRAELI JEWS.

AND THAT'S WHY MY BROTHERS AND I DON'T GO TO WORK BECAUSE THEY WORK IN JEWISH AREAS AND THEY SIT AT HOME BECAUSE THEY'RE AFRAID MEN AND WOMEN THAT WORK IN ISRAELI HOUSEHOLDS WHETHER IT'S CLEANING OR THINGS OF THAT NATURE, THEY'RE AFRAID TO GO TO WORK.

SEVERAL ARAB DOCTORS HAVE BEEN KICKED OUT OF THE HOSPITALS.

OR DESPITE THE FACT THAT THEY SHOW UP TO THEIR SHIFTS TREATING ISRAELI JEWS AS WELL AS OUR CITIZENS AND WITHOUT ANY DISTINCTION, EXACTLY AS WHAT MY COUSIN DID.

THEY GO AND FULFILL THEIR CIVIC PROFESSIONAL DUTY, AND STILL THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO BE SILENT, NOT HAVING ANY COMPASSION TO THEIR OTHER COMPONENT OF THEIR IDENTITY, OUR CIVIC IDENTITY IS ISRAELI, BUT OUR ETHNIC IDENTITY IS PALESTINIAN.

AND WE WANT TO AT LEAST FEEL THAT WITHOUT HAVING TO BE AFRAID OF EXPRESSING IT.

>> MAYBE ABOUT -- MAYBE I'M NOT PRONOUNCING IT CORRECTLY.

AND TALK ABOUT YOUR FAMILY'S CONNECTION AND HOW IT PLAYS INTO THIS STORY.

AND THEN I WANT TO TALK ABOUT YOUR WORK, PART OF YOUR WORK, THE WORK OF YOUR LIFE HAS BEEN TO FORGE PARTNERSHIP AMONG ARABS AND ISRAELIS AND JEWISH PEOPLE AND PEOPLE OF OTHER RELIGIONS AND SO FORTH.

>> WE LIVE JUST OUTSIDE THE CITY OF NAZARETH.

MY FAMILY HAS LIVED IN THIS TOWN FOR ALMOST 800 YEARS.

AND I'M HERE WITH MY WIFE AND FOUR CHILDREN.

IT'S A COMMUNITY OF ABOUT 15,000 PEOPLE, ALL MUSLIM.

WE FEEL WE ARE IN OUR HOMELAND.

AND THE QUESTION IS ARE WE IN OUR STATE?

IS THIS COUNTRY OUR COUNTRY?

AND WE DON'T FEEL WE LACK A SENSE OF BELONGING TO THE HOMELAND.

WE FEEL THAT THE STATE IS LACKING A SENSE OF BELONGING TO THE CITIZENS.

ISRAEL DEFENDS ITSELF AS THE STATE OF THE JEWISH PEOPLE, NOT THE STATE OF ITS CITIZENS.

THEY EVEN PASSED A LAW CALLED THE NATION STATE LAW THAT DEFINES ISRAEL AS A STATE OF THE JEWISH PEOPLE, NOT THE STATE OF THE ISRAELIS.

SO IN A WAY I AM IN MY HOMELAND, I AM IN MY TOWN.

I STILL SEE THE SAME SUNRISE AND SUNSET THAT MY ANCESTORS SAW 5, 600, 800 YEARS AGO, BUT THE CHANGE IS A POLITICAL SCENE THAT IS NOT SEEING US AS LEGITIMATE CITIZEN, AS LEGITIMATE MEMBERS OF THE STATE OF ISRAEL.

REGARDING MY WORK, I'VE DEDICATED MY LIFE, MICHEL, TO WORKING WITH AN ORGANIZATION FOR THE LAST 23 YEARS.

AND IT'S THE FIRST AND BY NOW STILL THE BIGGEST PEACE EDUCATION CENTER IN THE MIDDLE EAST.

AND ALMOST 20 YEARS AGO WE WON THE UNESCO PRIZE FOR PEACE EDUCATION BECAUSE WE KNOW HOW TO ADVOCATE FOR PEACE.

AND JUST SIMPLY WE BRING JEWISH AND ARAB YOUTH TOGETHER.

GIVE US TWO OR THREE DAYS AND WE KNOW HOW TO BRING DOWN THE RATE OF RACISM FROM A RATE OF 68, 65% TO 10 TO 12%.

WHAT WE DO IS GET THEM ON A PATH OF HUMANIZATION WITH EACH OTHER.

WE ALLOW THEM TO ENGAGE IN DIALOGUE AND ANSWER OUR DIFFERENCES SO IT'S AN HONEST DIALOGUE.

WE FOCUS ON INTERDEPENDENCY, THE FACT WE SHARE THE SAME BUSES, THE FACT WE SHARE THE SAME UNIVERSITIES, WE GO TO THE SAME HOSPITALS, WE HAVE THE SAME ECONOMY, THE SAME ENVIRONMENT, TO TRY TO CONNECT PEOPLE TOGETHER.

WE WORK ACROSS SECTOR TEACHER PROGRAM.

WE SEND OUR TEACHERS TO TEACH IN JEWISH SCHOOLS, JEWISH TEACHERS TO TEACH IN ARAB SCHOOLS.

IN ISRAEL IF WE TALK BUSING TODAY THEY'LL SEND ME TO MENTAL HOSPITAL.

WHAT WE DO IS WE BUS TEACHERS BECAUSE WE CAN'T BUS CHILDREN.

IT'S VERY HARD TO BUS CHILDREN, SO WE BUS TEACHERS.

AND WE ALMOST COVER 20% OF THE ARAB EDUCATIONAL SYSTEM AND 20% OF THE JEWISH EDUCATION SYSTEM.

93% OF THE CASES THIS IS THE FIRST ENCOUNTER EVER WITH THE OTHER.

>> IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU'RE SAYING THERE IS AN APPETITE FOR THIS KIND OF TEACHING AND LEARNING.

IT SOUNDS LIKE THERE'S AN APPETITE AMONG JUST THE WORK.

ARE YOU ABLE TO DO THAT NOW?

>> YOU KNOW, DURING TENSE TIMES THERE'S A RISE IN HATRED.

THERE'S A RISE IN POLARIZATION.

THERE'S A RISE IN SHYING AWAY FROM SUCH ACTIVITIES, BUT ALSO AS AN INSTITUTION WE LEARN THAT DURING TIME OF WAR YOU DON'T STAY SILENT.

YOU GO AND STILL ENGAGE.

WE ARE ENGAGED.

AS WE TALK RIGHT NOW, OUR TEAMS ARE TRYING TO MINIMIZE DAMAGE, TRYING TO TALK TO MAYORS TO TUNE DOWN THE DAMAGE TO TRY TO PREVENT FRICTION BETWEEN THEIR COMMUNITIES.

TALK TO THE TEACHERS THAT WE HAVE.

AND OUT OF THE 2,500 TEACHERS THAT I TALKED ABOUT, ALMOST 2,300 OF THEM ARE ACTUALLY STILL TEACHING AS WE SPEAK RIGHT NOW.

I THINK WHAT IS HAPPENING IS THE WAR IS PROVING TO US THAT OUR WAY IS THE WAY.

THE FACT WE'RE ALMOST ABLE TO HOLD 90% IN THE WAR EVEN AT THIS TIME TELLS YOU THERE IS STILL GOOD WILL DESPITE THE ANGER, DESPITE THE FRUSTRATION, DESPITE THE EASINESS OF GOING BACK TO THE STEREO TYPICAL THINKING OF THEY'RE THE ENEMY AND I DON'T WANT TO ENGAGE WITH THEM.

AT THE END OF THE DAY WE ASK THE QUESTION.

THE PROBLEM IS NOT THE BOTTOM UP, I THINK THE PROBLEM IS THE TOP DOWN.

THE PROBLEM IS THE POLITICAL LEADERSHIP.

WE HAVE A FAILING LEADERSHIP ON BOTH SIDES.

I THINK THE PUBLIC AT THE END OF THE DAY WOULD BE WILLING TO ENGAGE IN PEACE.

>> YOU KNOW, A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHERE TO BE IN THIS MOMENT, YOU KNOW, WHERE TO PLANT THEIR FEET.

YOU ARE AN EDUCATOR.

WHAT WOULD BE CONSTRUCTIVE IN THIS MOMENT?

WHAT WOULD YOU WANT US TO DO?

>> YOU KNOW, WHAT I WOULD SAY TO THE YOUTH THAT COME TO THE CENTER TODAY IS BE A PART OF THE SOLUTION, NOT PART OF THE PROBLEM.

WE -- YOU KNOW, EVERYONE IS NOW ASKED TO TAKE A SIDE.

AND I WOULD SAY DON'T TAKE SIDES.

TAKE THE SIDE OF THE SOLUTION.

AND I THINK THAT THE ISRAELI-PALESTINIAN CONFLICT IS AN OVERNEGOTIATED CONFLICT.

WE DON'T NEED TO GO BACK TO NEGOTIATIONS.

WE NEED TO GO BACK TO IMPLEMENTING THE SOLUTION, WHICH BASICALLY MEANS THAT IN MY VIEW THE PALESTINIAN-ISRAELI LEADERSHIP CANNOT DELIVER A SOLUTION.

WE NEED GLOBAL INTERVENTION.

WE NEED THE U.S. GOVERNMENT, THE U.N., GOD KNOWS WHO ELSE TO COME IN AND IMPOSE A POLITICAL SOLUTION.

THAT'S THE TWO-STATE SOLUTION THAT'S MORE OR LESS IN SIX OR SEVEN BORDERS.

WE CANNOT DELIVER THAT RESULT BY OUR OWN CAPACITIES.

SOMEONE WITH GREATER MIGHT AND POWER NEEDS TO COME AND DO THAT.

SO IF ANYONE CAN HAVE ANY IMPACT ON THAT INTERVENTION, THAT'S WHERE WE NEED IT.

I SEE PEOPLE DEMONSTRATING ON THE SIDE OF THE ISRAELIS AND PEOPLE DEMONSTRATING ON THE SIDE OF THE PALESTINIANS, AND I DO CONNECT WITH THEM ON BOTH SIDES BUT THAT'S NOT WHERE IT SHOULD END.

WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT THE DAY AFTER THE WAR.

HOPEFULLY THE AFTER THE WAR IS TOMORROW, BUT IT DOESN'T SEEM TO BE THAT CLOSE.

BUT THE DAY AFTER THE WAR SHOULD BE THE BEGINNING OF IMPLEMENTATION OF SOLUTION AND NOT JUST DRAGGING US FORWARD THROUGH YET ANOTHER TEN YEARS OF FAILURE, THAT PROMISES THE NEXT OCTOBER 7th CLASH.

IF WE CONTINUE ON THE PATH OF CLASH, WE'RE PROMISING MORE AND MORE CASUALTIES ON -- FOR BOTH SIDES.

AND I DON'T THINK IT'S IN THE INTEREST OF PALESTINIANS AND THE ISRAELIS JUST TO HAVE PEOPLE STANDING BEHIND THEM.

WE TEED STOOSTAND BEHIND A SOLUTION AND NOT STAND BEHIND ONE PARTY OR THE OTHER TODAY BECAUSE TAKING SIDES IS NOT THE SOLUTION.

BUT TAKING THE SIDE OF THE SOLUTION IS THE SOLUTION.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR SPEAKING WITH US.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME, MICHEL.

AND HOPEFULLY WE'LL SPEAK IN BETTER DAYS.

>> I HOPE SO.

>> WE HOPE FOR BETTER DAYS, TOO.

>>> AND FINALLY, THOUGH, TONIGHT IT WAS HAILED AS A TRIUMPH FOR DEMOCRACY BROUGHT ABOUT BY AN UNLIKELY PAIRING OF LEADERS.

TODAY MARKS 34 YEARS SINCE WORLD COMMUNISM STARTED TO CRUMBLE AFTER THIS PLEA FROM PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN IN FRONT OF THE BRANDENBURG GATE.

>> MR. GORBACHEV, TEARDOWN THIS WALL.

>> SO LET'S LOOK BACK AT MY CONVERSATION WITH MIKHAIL GORBACHEV TEN YEARS AFTER HE HELPED USHER IN THIS TECTONIC AND HISTORICAL SHIFT.

MR. PRESIDENT, TEN YEARS AGO FOR US WESTERNERS IT WAS A TRIUMPH TO SEE THAT WAR COME DOWN, THE END OF TYRANNY, THE END OF COMMUNISM.

BUT YOU WERE A COMMITTED COMMUNIST.

HOW DID YOU FEEL PERSONALLY PWHEN YOU SAW THEM TEARDOWN THAT WALL?

>> BY THAT TIME I HAD CHANGED MY MIND ABOUT MANY THINGS.

AND IN 1998 I CAME TO A CONCLUSION THAT THE SYSTEM COULD NOT BE IMPROVED.

WE NEEDED POLITICAL REFORM AND MORE FREEDOM, FREEDOM OF CHOICE, POLITICAL PARTIES, GIVE PEOPLE SOME OXYGEN.

>> HOW DID YOU FEEL YOURSELF WATCHING THAT WAR COME DOWN?

>> YOU KNOW THERE'S A LOT OF TALK ABOUT THE WALL.

BUT FOR ME AS A POLITICIAN, IT'S JUST A MOMENT.

IT'S A SIGN OF SYMBOLIC EVENT.

THE WALL HAD BEEN BUILT WHEN CONFRONTATION REACHED A VERY ACUTE STAGE, AND WE BEGAN ABANDONING THE CONFRONTATION.

BY THAT TIME WE WERE MEETING WITH PRESIDENT REAGAN, HE SAID HE WAS NOT CLAIMING THE SOVIET UNION WAS THE EVIL EMPIRE ANYMORE.

SINCE WE GAVE FREEDOM OF CHOICE TO THE SOVIET UNION TO COUNTRIES OF EASTERN EUROPE, HOW COULD WE DENY THE SAME RIGHT TO THE GERMANS?

THEY PROVED THEY LEARNED HARD FROM THE TERRIBLE WAR.

THEY BECAME A TRULY DEMOCRATIC NATION.

>> DID YOU REALIZE THAT IT WOULD SO HUGELY, SO MASSIVELY CAPTURE THE WESTERN IMAGINATION?

>> IN THE EAST AND AROUND THE WORLD THE IMPRESSIONS WERE ALSO PROFOUND.

AFTER THAT I MET WITH PRESIDENT -- AND WE TOLD EACH OTHER WE DO NOT CONSIDER OURSELVES ADVERSARIES ANYMORE.

THAT ALSO WAS A SIGNIFICANT EVENT.

IT SHOWED THAT A COLD WAR WAS OVER.

>> DID YOU KNOW THAT IT WOULD LEAD SO QUICKLY TO THE FALL OF COMMUNISM ALL OVER EASTERN EUROPE AND IN THE SOVIET UNION?

>> YOU KNOW, THE MODEL THAT HAD BEEN IMPLEMENTED IN THE SOVIET UNION ENFORCED IN EAST AND MIDDLE EUROPEAN COUNTRIES AFTER THE SECOND WORLD WAR LOST.

BUT I'M STILL DEVOTED TO SOCIALISM.

IF YOU THINK AS SOCIALISM AS FREEDOM, SOCIAL JUSTICE, DEMOCRACY WHERE INDIVIDUALS PLAY A SIGNIFICANT ROLE, LOOK AT WESTERN EUROPE.

MOST OF THEM ARE RUN BY SOCIAL DEMOCRATS, AND THERE IS NOTHING BAD ABOUT IT.

>> WAS THERE ANY RISK OF USING FORCE TO STOP EAST GERMANS DOING WHAT THEY WERE DOING?

WAS THERE ANY RISK THAT THE SOVIET UNION WOULD INTERVENE TO KEEP EAST GERMANY WHOLE?

>> NO.

THAT WAS TOTALLY OUT OF THE QUESTION.

>> MR. PRESIDENT, YOU ARE REGARDED BY MANY PEOPLE IN THIS WORLD AS A HERO FOR CAUSING THE END OF TYRANNY AND THE COLLAPSE OF COMMUNISM.

BUT YOU ARE ALSO CRITICIZED HEAVILY BY THOSE WHO SAY YOU OPENED A PANDORAS BOX.

AND THEY SAY LOOK AT THE STRIFE NOW, LOOK AT THE ECONOMIC CHAOS, LOOK AT THE MAFIA STRUCTURE, LOOK AT THE CORRUPTION.

THEY SAY THAT YOU OPENED AND STARTED A PLAN THAT YOU DID NOT KNOW HOW TO FINISH.

>> THAT'S AN ACCUSATION -- I DO NOT ACCEPT IT.

I CAN GIVE YOU THE FOLLOWING ANSWER.

FIRST THERE ARE NO LUCKY REFORMERS.

WE HAD A CONCEPT, GIVE UP THE TOTAL YRENNISM, LEAVE SOCIETY TO FREEDOM, ECONOMICM, TOO.

SO WE DID KNOW WHERE WE WERE HEADING.

BUT WHEN SUCH DEVELOPMENTS GET UNDER WAY NO ONE CAN PREDICT SPECIFICALLY WHAT IT WILL LEAD TO.

IMAGINE RUSSIAN HISTORY.

250 YEARS OF TATAR CONTROL, MORE THAN 150 YEARS OF SERFDOM, ALMOST 80 YEARS OF COMMUNIST REGIME, AND ABANDONING IT DOES NOT MEAN YOU BECOME FREE RIGHT AWAY.

ONE HAS TO LEARN HOW TO HAVE IT.

WHO CAN PREDICT THAT?

NO ONE.

NO SCIENCE CAN DO THAT.

HISTORY WILL DECIDE.

LOOK AT HOW THE WEST WAS TEACHING RUSSIA MARKET REFORMS.

JUST THAT ONE THING AND SEE HOW THEY GOT MIXED UP.

AND LOOK WHAT WE HAVE IN RUSSIA AS A RESULT TODAY.

>> DO YOU BLAME THE WEST?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

THE WEST WAS PRESSURING US, FORCING ITS WILL THROUGH THEIR IMF AND OTHER EXPERTS.

OF COURSE IT WAS ABLE TO FIND COUNTER PARTS IN RUSSIA.

HE WANTED TO SOLVE EVERYTHING WITHIN TWO YEARS AND MAKE RUSSIA THE MOST PROSPEROUS COUNTRY IN THE WORLD.

THAT'S UTOPIAN THINKING, AND IT IS MORE DANGEROUS THAN COMMUNISM.

WE'RE LUCKY IF THEY WERE JUST WRONG.

IT HAPPENS.

BUT WHAT IF THE PLAN WAS TO FORCE THE REFORMS THAT WOULD MAKE RUSSIA HELPLESS AND KEEP PERHAPS STRANGLED.

I DON'T THINK THEY REALIZE RUSSIA IS IN DANGEROUS IN SUCH A STATE FOR ITSELF, FOR EUROPE, FOR THE WHOLE WORLD.

>> YOU HAVE RECENTLY SUFFERED A PERSONAL TRAGEDY, THE DEATH OF YOUR WIFE.

SHE WAS YOUR PARTNER IN EVERY WAY.

SHE SUPPORTED YOUR POLICIES.

HOW DOES IT FEEL TO NOT HAVE HER HERE TO CELEBRATE THE 10th ANNIVERSARY OF THIS TRIUMPH?

>> THESE ARE VERY HARD TIMES FOR ME.

I FEEL LIKE MY SOUL HAS BEEN RIPPED OUT OF ME.

>> MANY YEARS LATER VLADIMIR PUTIN WOULD CALL THE COLLAPSE OF SOVIET COMMUNISM THE GREATEST CATASTROPHE OF THE 20th CENTURY.

AND WITH HIS WAR IN UKRAINE, HE'S STILL CHALLENGING THE NEW WORLD ORDER THAT GORBACHEV HELPED BUILD.

AND LAST YEAR WHEN GORBACHEV DIED AT THE AGE OF 91, PUTIN DENIED HIM A STATE FUNERAL.

THAT'S IT FOR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.

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THANKS FOR WATCHING AND GOOD-BYE FROM LONDON.