FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO In FOCUS PROVIDED BY VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

Gene: THIS WEEK ON NEW MEXICO In FOCUS, INSIDE THE EFFORT TO STORE NUCLEAR WASTE IN NEW MEXICO, AND WHAT SOME LAWMAKERS AND ENVIRONMENTALISTS ARE DOING TO STOP IT.

Sen. Steinborn: PEOPLE CAN GET INVOLVED, THEY CAN SPEAK UP, THEY CAN LET THEIR LEGISLATORS KNOW, HEY, NEXT TIME YOU HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO VOTE ON THIS, GET THIS BILL PASSED.

Gene: AND, LOOKING AT THE IMPACTS OF CLIMATE CHANGE THROUGH THE LENS OF FAITH.

NEW MEXICO In FOCUS STARTS NOW.

Gene: THANKS FOR JOINING US THIS WEEK.

I'M YOUR HOST, GENE GRANT.

LOCAL JOURNALISM IS THE FOUNDATION OF ANY INFORMED SOCIETY, BUT IN A STATE WITH SO MANY GEOGRAPHICAL AND CULTURAL NUANCES, BUILDING A SUCCESSFUL NEWS OUTLET IS A CONSTANT CHALLENGE.

IN ABOUT 15 MINUTES, I CHAT WITH A ROUNDTABLE OF LOCAL JOURNALISTS FOR AN INSIDE LOOK AT THE CRITICAL WORK THEY DO EACH DAY.

APRIL 1st MARKS THE FIRST DAY OF LEGAL RECREATIONAL CANNABIS SALES HERE IN THE STATE OF NEW MEXICO.

IN THE SECOND HALF OF THE SHOW, I'LL RUN THROUGH A QUICK EXPLAINER SO YOU KNOW EXACTLY WHAT TO EXPECT WHEN IT COMES TO SALES, CONSUMPTION AND ENFORCEMENT.

BUT FIRST, AN EAST COAST NUCLEAR DEVELOPER, HOLTEC, IS TRYING TO STORE LEFTOVER NUCLEAR WASTE HERE IN NEW MEXICO.

ENVIRONMENT REPORTER LAURA PASKUS SAT DOWN WITH NEW MEXICO SENATOR JEFF STEINBORN TO TALK ABOUT WHAT'S BEING DONE TO KEEP THE WASTE OUT OF OUR STATE.

Laura: I WANT TO TALK SPECIFICALLY ABOUT HOLTEC INTERNATIONAL AND ITS PLANS FOR SOUTHEASTERN NEW MEXICO.

KIND OF JUST IN A NUTSHELL, WHAT IS THEIR PLAN?

Sen. Steinborn: YEAH.

SO THIS COMPANY, HOLTEC INTERNATIONAL, HAS GOT AN APPLICATION WITH THE NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION, WHICH REGULATES SPENT NUCLEAR FUEL, HIGH-LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE IN THE COUNTRY, THEY HAVE AN APPLICATION TO CREATE WHAT'S CALLED A CONSOLIDATED INTERIM STORAGE FACILITY IN THE STATE OF NEW MEXICO, AND TO BE LICENSED TO SHIP BASICALLY THE ENTIRE -- UP TO AND BEYOND THE ENTIRE NATION'S CURRENT SUPPLY OF SPENT NUCLEAR FUEL.

AND IT WOULD BE A 40-YEAR LICENSE WITH AN OPPORTUNITY TO EXTEND FOR ANOTHER 40 YEARS, AND IT'S GOT A LOT OF TERRIFYING FACETS TO IT, WHICH I WILL CERTAINLY GO INTO.

BUT IT'S VERY DIFFERENT FROM WHAT WE'RE USED TO IN THE STATE, AND I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE CONFUSE THIS WITH THE WIPP FACILITY IN SOUTHEASTERN NEW MEXICO.

WIPP IS LOW LEVEL WASTE.

IT'S BASICALLY DEFENSE FACILITY WASTE LIKE GLOVES AND, YOU KNOW, CLOTHING AND THINGS LIKE THAT USED IN PLUTONIUM PRODUCTION AND TESTING, BUT A LOWER LEVEL OF RADIOACTIVITY AND KIND OF DANGER, I GUESS, EXPOSURE TO PEOPLE.

AND IT IS A FEDERAL FACILITY BURIED ALMOST A MILE UNDERGROUND IN A SALT CAVERN, BASICALLY.

WHAT THIS PROPOSAL IS, IS A PRIVATE COMPANY THAT WANTS TO STORE THIS MATERIAL IN CANISTERS, ALSO LICENSED BY THE NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION, BASICALLY PARTIALLY ON THE SURFACE AND PARTIALLY BURIED, AND THE FACT THAT IT WOULD BE OWNED BY A PRIVATE COMPANY AND NOT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT JUST CARRIES LOTS OF ADDITIONAL RISKS TO THE STATE.

SO I'LL STOP RIGHT THERE.

Laura: SO ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I'VE BEEN THINKING ABOUT A LOT LATELY IS YOU MENTIONED THIS WASTE THAT'S COMING FROM NUCLEAR POWER PLANTS.

SO THERE ARE NUCLEAR POWER PLANTS IN DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY WHERE PRIVATE COMPANIES HAVE OPERATED NUCLEAR POWER FACILITIES, SELLING ELECTRICITY, FUELING ENTIRE ECONOMIES, AND NOW THERE'S THIS WASTE PRODUCT AND THEY WANT TO SEND THAT TO NEW MEXICO.

THIS SEEMS LIKE A BAD DEAL FOR US.

CAN YOU TALK ABOUT THE SORT OF PRIVATIZATION OF THIS WASTE AND WHAT -- LIKE, WHERE DOES HOLTEC FIT INTO THIS?

HOW DID THEY GET THAT WASTE AND WHY DID THEY SEND IT HERE?

Sen. Steinborn: YEAH.

SO HOLTEC IS A COMPANY THAT REALLY, UP TILL NOW, HAS NOT BEEN -- THEY'VE BEEN A SUPPLIER OF THE NUCLEAR POWER GENERATION INDUSTRY, AND THEY'VE KIND OF RECENTLY GOT INTO THE WASTE SIDE OF IT AND EVEN BOUGHT A DECOMMISSIONED POWER PLANT, AND THEY NOW ACTUALLY HAVE TITLE TO SOME SPENT NUCLEAR FUELS, SOME CANISTERS OF SPENT FUEL.

SO, YEAH, IT'S -- YOU KNOW, PRIVATE NUCLEAR POWER COMPANIES, AS YOU SAID, GENERATE THIS NUCLEAR WASTE AS A BYPRODUCT OF CREATING NUCLEAR POWER.

BASICALLY, IT'S THESE RODS THAT ARE USED TO GENERATE ENERGY AND POWER AND HEAT.

AND THEN THEY'RE PUT, ONCE THEY LOSE ENOUGH TO GENERATE POWER, THEY'RE THEN PUT INTO THESE COOLING PONDS, AND THEN THEY'RE PUT INTO WHAT'S CALLED DRY CAST STORAGE.

YEAH, AND THEY'RE NOW FULL OF THIS STUFF, AND THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HAS HAD A LEGAL MANDATE SINCE THE EIGHTIES TO FIND A PERMANENT REPOSITORY, AND THAT'S WHERE YUCCA MOUNTAIN CAME IN.

THAT WAS GOING TO BE THE PERMANENT REPOSITORY.

AND UNDER FEDERAL LAW, THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS RESPONSIBLE FOR FINDING A PERMANENT REPOSITORY.

WELL, THAT DID NOT WORK OUT, BECAUSE YUCCA MOUNTAIN HAS BEEN TERMINATED AS A PROJECT.

AT LEAST IT DID UNDER PRESIDENT OBAMA.

THERE'S SOME IN CONGRESS TRYING TO RESTART THAT PROJECT.

SO MEANWHILE, THESE POWER COMPANIES, THEY'RE LEFT HOLDING THIS MATERIAL.

GRANTED THEY GENERATED IT AND THOSE COMMUNITIES DID.

AND IN ALL FAIRNESS, NEW MEXICO USES A LITTLE BIT OF NUCLEAR POWER, TOO, FROM THE PALO VERDE NUCLEAR PLANT IN ARIZONA.

BUT, I MEAN, WE'RE LESS THAN ONE HALF OF ONE PERCENT OF THE NATION'S POPULATION, TO KEEP THINGS IN PERSPECTIVE.

AND WE'RE GOING TO BE WEANING OURSELVES OFF NUCLEAR POWER, ALSO, WHICH IS A PART OF OUR UTILITIES PLAN.

SO, YEAH, THEY WANT TO GET RID OF THIS STUFF.

THE COMMUNITIES THAT HAVE THIS WASTE NEARBY WANT TO GET RID OF IT.

AND SO THIS IDEA THAT -- SINCE THE PERMANENT STORAGE HAS NOT WORKED OUT, THIS IDEA OF INTERIM STORAGE HAS KIND OF COME UP, AND IT'S A CONVENIENT SOLUTION FOR THE INDUSTRY TO GET RID OF THEIR WASTE SO THAT THEY CAN PRODUCE MORE OF IT.

AND FOR THE COMMUNITIES, FRANKLY, THAT HAVE THIS WASTE, THEY DON'T WANT IT.

SO IT REALLY CREATES A VERY INTERESTING DYNAMIC OF HAVES AND HAVE NOTS IN THE COUNTRY, AND THIS IS WHERE NEW MEXICO IS REALLY EMBROILED IN A NATIONAL DEBATE, AND THIS IS A NATIONAL POLICY ISSUE.

Laura: SO YOU MENTIONED IT'S AN INTERIM STORAGE FACILITY AND THE NRC IS WORKING ON A 40-YEAR LICENSE.

WHAT HAPPENS AT THE END OF THE 40 YEARS?

WHERE DOES IT GO ONCE IT'S NOT IN INTERIM STORAGE HERE?

Sen. Steinborn: WELL, YEAH, THAT'S THE RUB, AND THAT'S DEFINITELY ONE OF THE BIG PROBLEMS.

THERE IS NO PERMANENT FACILITY.

SCIENTIFICALLY, EVERYBODY ACKNOWLEDGES THAT THERE NEEDS TO BE A PERMANENT REPOSITORY, THAT THIS STUFF WILL BE RADIOACTIVE FOR A VERY LONG TIME, NEEDS TO BE PUT SOMEPLACE SAFE FOR A VERY LONG TIME, AND THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT ACTUALLY DEFINES REPOSITORY -- THEIR LEGAL RESPONSIBILITY MEANS A DEEP GEOLOGICAL REPOSITORY.

SO THAT IS THE STRUCTURAL BAR THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HAS LEGALLY SET UP THAT WE HAVE TO ACHIEVE AS A COUNTRY.

THE PROBLEM IS, THEY DON'T HAVE ONE.

SO WHAT EVERYBODY, A LOT OF OUR CONGRESSIONAL LEADERS, OUR GOVERNOR HAVE SAID IS THAT WE WILL BECOME THE PERMANENT DE FACTO SITE BECAUSE THERE IS NO PERMANENT FACILITY, AND IT'S CERTAINLY NOT DESIGNED TO BE THE FOREVER SITE.

I MEAN, IT'S AN INTERIM FACILITY.

IT'S OBVIOUSLY NOT A DEEP GEOLOGICAL SOLUTION.

AND BEYOND THAT, THESE DRY CASTS ARE NOT -- THERE'S NOT A DRY CAST IN EXISTENCE THAT -- THE TECHNOLOGY HASN'T EVEN BEEN AROUND LONGER THAN A COUPLE OF DECADES, SO THE CONCERN HERE, ONE OF MY MANY CONCERNS, IS THAT WE'RE TECHNOLOGICALLY BEING ASKED TO BE A GUINEA PIG FOR WHAT HAPPENS WHEN WE START TO GET A FEW DECADES OUT AND WE HAVE ALL THESE CANISTERS SITTING IN THE DESERT IN SOUTHEASTERN NEW MEXICO.

WHAT IF THEY START TO FAIL ON A MASSIVE SCALE?

BUT, YEAH.

AND THEN, WHAT HAPPENS IF THAT COMPANY GOES BANKRUPT?

THEY'RE REQUIRED TO PUT UP A BOND WITH THIS, BUT WHO WOULD THEN BE REQUIRED TO TAKE OVER THIS WASTE AND WHERE WOULD IT GO?

IT COULD BE AN ABSOLUTE DISASTER.

SO YEAH, ALL OF THESE ARE QUESTION MARKS WITHOUT ANSWERS.

THEY'RE NOT REALLY QUESTION MARKS, THEY'RE QUESTIONS WITHOUT ANSWERS, BECAUSE THERE'S NO PERMANENT SOLUTION.

SO NEW MEXICO -- THIS IS BASICALLY A PRIVATE SECTOR SOLUTION BEING HOISTED UPON NEW MEXICO RIGHT NOW IN LIEU OF A REAL FEDERAL SOLUTION, WHICH IS WHAT'S NEEDED.

Laura: SO YOU AND REPRESENTATIVE MATTHEW McQUEEN INTRODUCED HOUSE BILL 137, WHICH DID NOT PASS THIS SESSION.

CAN YOU TELL ME A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHAT THAT BILL WOULD HAVE DONE AND WHAT HAPPENED WITH IT?

Sen. Steinborn: YEAH.

WHAT THE BILL WOULD HAVE DONE IS, IT WOULD HAVE BARRED NEW MEXICO -- BARRED COMPANIES FROM STORING HIGH-LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE IN THE STATE OF NEW MEXICO UNTIL A FEDERAL PERMANENT REPOSITORY WAS IN OPERATION.

AND INITIALLY THE BILL STARTED OFF AS JUST A COMPLETE BAN ON STORING THE MATERIALS HERE, AND THEN WE AMENDED IT TO SAY THAT IT COULDN'T HAPPEN UNTIL THERE WAS A FEDERAL REPOSITORY.

BUT THE BILL ALSO DID SOME OTHER THINGS, AS WELL.

IT STRENGTHENED THE STATE'S RADIOACTIVE CONSULTATION TASK FORCE, WHICH IS SOMETHING WE CREATED IN LAW AROUND THE TIME WHEN WIPP CAME INTO EXISTENCE.

WE CREATED IT FOR THE STATE GOVERNMENT TO HAVE KIND OF AN EXECUTIVE BRANCH INTERAGENCY-LEVEL WORKING GROUP TO LOOK AT RADIOACTIVE WASTE -- NO.

YEAH, SORRY, RADIOACTIVE ISSUES, AND THEN SPECIFICALLY BE THE INTERFACE WITH THE FEDERAL FACILITIES.

SO THIS BILL WOULD HAVE ALSO STRENGTHENED THAT TO INCLUDE PRIVATE FACILITIES AND ADD MORE MEMBERS TO IT.

SO IT'S ONE OF MY OBVIOUSLY BIG DISAPPOINTMENTS THAT WE DID NOT GET THIS DONE THIS LAST SESSION.

Laura: AND I THINK I READ THAT TEXAS PASSED A SIMILAR BILL, AND I KNOW OTHER STATES -- YOU KNOW, YOU MENTIONED YUCCA MOUNTAIN.

NEVADA SUCCESSFULLY PUSHED BACK AGAINST THE PERMANENT REPOSITORY.

I'VE SEEN OTHER STATES.

WHY IS IT THAT NEW MEXICO SEEMS TO KEEP HAVING THIS ISSUE, AND WHO IN THE STATE IS, LIKE, FOR IT?

IT SEEMS LIKE SO MANY PEOPLE ARE AGAINST IT.

WHO IS FOR IT HERE?

Sen. Steinborn: WELL, THERE'S SOME POLITICAL LEADERS IN SOUTHEASTERN NEW MEXICO.

NEW MEXICO IS A LITTLE UNIQUE BECAUSE WE DO HAVE THE COUNTRY'S ONLY NATIONAL LOW-LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE STORAGE FACILITY, WIPP.

THERE WERE A LOT OF CONCERNS WHEN THAT FACILITY CAME INTO BEING.

NOW THEY HAVE A URANIUM ENRICHMENT FACILITY THERE CALLED URENCO.

SO THEY'VE DEVELOPED A COMFORT LEVEL, SOME POLITICAL LEADERS IN SOUTHEASTERN NEW MEXICO, WITH KIND OF THIS ECONOMIC SECTOR.

SO THEY SAW AN OPPORTUNITY, ACTUALLY, AND THEY'RE THE ONES WHO PUT THIS IN MOTION, SOME OF THE POLITICAL LEADERSHIP IN SOUTHEASTERN NEW MEXICO.

THEY RECRUITED HOLTEC INTO SUBMITTING THIS PROPOSAL TO THE NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION.

SO THEY'RE SOME OF THE BIG LEADERS FOR IT.

IRONICALLY, RIGHT ACROSS THE BORDER IN TEXAS, THE OIL INDUSTRY IS SUPER AGAINST IT BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY WE SEE THE ECONOMICS OF OIL AND GAS AND HOW HOT THE PERMIAN BASIN IS, AND THEY RECOGNIZE THE RISK OF HAVING AN ACCIDENT IN THE MIDDLE OF THAT ECONOMIC ACTIVITY.

SO OUR DYNAMICS ARE A LITTLE DIFFERENT HERE, AND SO UNFORTUNATELY I SEE THE SUPPORT KIND OF FISSURE ALONG PARTISAN LINES, WHICH IS UNFORTUNATE.

BUT HAVING SAID THAT, IT'S NOT -- WE HAVE UNIQUE SUPPORT ACROSS INDUSTRIES THAT DON'T TYPICALLY WORK TOGETHER THAT ARE OPPOSED TO IT IN NEW MEXICO.

BUT, YEAH, I THINK THE OTHER PROBLEM WE HAVE HERE IS, WE HAVE A MUCH SHORTER SESSION WITH A 30-DAY SESSION.

TEXAS HAS A 144-DAY SESSION.

AND THEY HAD A VERY POWERFUL ECONOMIC INDUSTRY PUSHING FOR IT, WHEREAS IN OUR STATE, YOU KNOW, WE HAD THE ENVIRONMENTAL COMMUNITY, WHICH THE ECONOMIC INDUSTRY SOMETIMES HAS MORE POLITICAL MUSCLE.

BUT THE BILL'S GOTTEN PRETTY FAR BOTH TIMES, IT JUST DIDN'T GET PULLED UP FOR A FINAL VOTE.

AND I'M DISAPPOINTED AND I'M NOT GOING TO MAKE EXCUSES FOR ANYBODY AND WHY THEY DIDN'T BRING IT UP FOR A VOTE, BUT THIS BILL, A DIFFERENT VARIATION OF THIS BILL, PASSED THE SENATE LAST YEAR.

THIS TIME, IT WOULD HAVE ABSOLUTELY PASSED THE HOUSE IF IT HAD BEEN BROUGHT UP FOR A VOTE, AND I BELIEVE IT WOULD HAVE PASSED THE SENATE.

SO I THINK WE'RE RIGHT THERE IN NEW MEXICO.

BUT IT IS A MISSED OPPORTUNITY THAT WE DIDN'T PASS THE BILL, THAT'S FOR SURE.

Laura: SO IN THINKING ABOUT THE SUPPORT FOR HOLTEC, FOR THIS INDUSTRY IN THAT PART OF THE STATE, ARE WE TALKING ABOUT, LIKE, ENTIRE COMMUNITIES AND THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE, OR ARE WE TALKING ABOUT, YOU KNOW, A FEW PEOPLE?

Sen. Steinborn: THAT'S A REALLY GOOD QUESTION.

THERE'S NOT UNANIMOUS SUPPORT, BY ANY MEANS, IN THAT PART OF THE STATE FOR THIS.

BUT PEOPLE ALL OVER THE STATE ARE ABSOLUTELY OPPOSED TO IT.

THE PROPOSAL IS TO BRING IN THIS WASTE, THESE CASTS, THROUGH RAIL, AND IT WOULD COME IN THROUGH ALL PARTS OF NEW MEXICO VIA ARMED GUARD.

AND DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES AROUND THE STATE FROM LAS CRUCES, THAT I REPRESENT, TO ALBUQUERQUE AND THE ALL INDIAN PUEBLO COUNCIL OF GOVERNORS HAVE PASSED RESOLUTIONS SAYING THEY DON'T WANT THIS WASTE COMING THROUGH THEIR COMMUNITY, RESOLUTIONS REPRESENTING ABOUT 40 PERCENT OF THE STATE'S POPULATION.

SO A GREAT NUMBER OF PEOPLE IN THE STATE ABSOLUTELY DO NOT WANT US TO BE THE STORAGE GROUND FOR THIS MATERIAL.

Laura: I KNOW THESE THINGS TAKE TIME.

THERE'S A PROCESS.

WHERE IN THE PROCESS ARE WE?

IS THERE STILL TIME FOR PEOPLE TO BE INVOLVED?

WHAT'S HAPPENING?

Sen. Steinborn: WE DON'T KNOW WHEN THEY'RE TARGETED TO RECEIVE A POSSIBLE PERMIT NOW, OR LICENSE, BECAUSE THEY HAVEN'T PROVIDED THE NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION WHAT THEY'VE BEEN ASKED FOR, AND THAT'S WHERE WE'RE AT.

THERE'S MOVEMENT IN CONGRESS TO CERTAINLY TRY TO FIGHT IT.

AS YOU SAID, TEXAS PASSED A LAW BANNING IT THERE IN THE STATE OF TEXAS.

OUR ATTORNEY GENERAL AND THE STATE OF TEXAS HAVE FILED SUIT AGAINST THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT SAYING IT'S ILLEGAL TO DO CONSOLIDATED INTERIM STORAGE BECAUSE IT VIOLATES STATES RIGHTS, BECAUSE STATES REALLY HAVE VERY NARROW AVENUES TO EVEN HAVE A VOICE IN THIS PROCESS, WHICH IS OUTRAGEOUS, UNLIKE A FEDERAL FACILITY WHICH WE HAVE STATUTORY VETO POWER OVER UNLESS CONGRESS OVERRIDES US.

NOT SO WITH A PRIVATE FACILITY.

SO IT'S REALLY A WEAKNESS IN FEDERAL LAW.

AND THEN FINALLY, SEVERAL DAYS AGO SENATOR HEINRICH INTRODUCED A BILL WITH SENATOR CRUZ -- HOW'S THAT FOR BIPARTISANSHIP -- ON SPENT NUCLEAR FUEL, BASICALLY PROHIBITING THE USE OF A FUND THAT UTILITIES HAVE BEEN SETTING ASIDE, PAYING INTO, TO ULTIMATELY SHIP THIS WASTE TO A PERMANENT REPOSITORY.

I THINK ONE OF HOLTEC'S BUSINESS PLANS IS TO TAP INTO THAT FUND FOR THIS INTERIM STORAGE, AND SO THEY INTRODUCED A BILL, SENATORS HEINRICH AND CRUZ, TO PROHIBIT THE USE OF THAT MONEY.

SO THAT WILL BE A GOOD DOOR TO CLOSE, IF WE CAN.

SO THERE YOU GO.

THIS THING IS BEING FOUGHT ON MULTIPLE LEVELS, AND WE'RE CERTAINLY -- YOU KNOW, THE GOVERNOR IS STEADFAST AGAINST THIS, AND I CERTAINLY INTEND TO INTRODUCE THIS BILL AGAIN.

EVEN IF THEY WERE TO GET A PERMIT BETWEEN NOW AND NEXT YEAR, THE FACILITY WILL NOT BE BUILT BY THEN, OR EVEN STARTED, BECAUSE THERE'S A LOT OF RAIL ISSUES THAT HAVE TO BE WORKED OUT, SO I'M GOING TO KEEP FIGHTING.

AND THE CITIZENS OF NEW MEXICO, WHAT THEY CAN DO IS, THEY CAN EDUCATE EACH OTHER.

THANK YOU FOR REPORTING ON THIS.

THAT'S SO IMPORTANT, SO PEOPLE CAN LEARN ABOUT THE PROJECT.

AND THERE'S GROUPS AROUND THE STATE THAT ARE CERTAINLY -- AND I APOLOGIZE, I DON'T HAVE A WEBSITE HANDY.

I PROBABLY SHOULD HAVE.

BUT THERE'S ADVOCACY GROUPS THAT ARE FIGHTING THIS.

PEOPLE CAN GET INVOLVED.

THEY CAN SPEAK UP.

THEY CAN LET THEIR LEGISLATORS KNOW, HEY, NEXT TIME YOU HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO VOTE ON THIS, GET THIS BILL PASSED.

TAKE THE BULLSEYE OFF NEW MEXICO.

Rasmussen: UNDOING WHITE PRIVILEGE, UNDOING WHITE SUPREMACY, IS ESSENTIAL TO MAKING THE TRANSITION TO A SUSTAINABLE LIFE ON OTHER TERMS.

Gene: WITH SO MANY GEOGRAPHIC BARRIERS AND SUCH A DIVERSE POPULATION, NEW MEXICO PRESENTS UNIQUE CHALLENGES IN A LOT OF AREAS IN OUR EVERYDAY LIVES, INCLUDING HOW INFORMATION IS SHARED.

THAT MAKES THE WORK OF JOURNALISTS ACROSS OUR STATE EVEN MORE CHALLENGING.

I GOT A CHANCE TO SIT DOWN WITH THREE INDEPENDENT JOURNALISTS WITH THREE VERY DIFFERENT AUDIENCES TO TALK ABOUT HOW THEY REACH THEIR COMMUNITIES.

Gene: WE'VE GOT LEOTA HARRIMAN.

SHE'S THE EDITOR AND PUBLISHER OF THE INDEPENDENT IN EDGEWOOD.

AND I HAVE A SMILE ON MY FACE BECAUSE SHE CAN FIND ROOM FOR ONE OF OUR FAVORITE PEOPLE WE HAVE ON THE SHOW.

YOU MIGHT KNOW WHO SHE IS.

I KNOW YOU DO, LEOTA.

SHE'S ONE OF THE WONDERFUL WRITERS FOR YOU.

Leota: YES.

Gene: WE'VE ALSO GOT RYAN LOWERY.

HE'S A FREELANCE JOURNALIST.

HE OFTEN DOES WORK FOR THE LAS VEGAS OPTIC, AMONG OTHER LOCAL AND NATIONAL OUTLETS.

HE'S ALSO PRESIDENT OF THE LOCAL CHAPTER OF THE SOCIETY FOR PROFESSIONAL JOURNALISTS.

AND WE WELCOME BACK PETER RICE, WHO'S BEEN WITH US BEFORE.

WE'RE VERY PLEASED TO HAVE HIM HERE.

HE'S THE EDITOR OF DOWNTOWN ALBUQUERQUE NEWS, A HYPER-LOCAL ONLINE NEWS SITE COVERING, OF COURSE, DOWNTOWN ALBUQUERQUE AND SURROUNDING AREAS.

AND THANK YOU ALL FOR BEING HERE.

I REALLY, REALLY APPRECIATE IT.

LEOTA, LET ME START WITH YOU.

ONE OF THE THINGS AT OUR SHOP HERE AT NEW MEXICO PBS THAT REALLY CAUGHT OUR EYE WAS WHAT YOU WROTE ON FACEBOOK A FEW WEEKS AGO ABOUT WHAT YOU HAD TO DEAL WITH DURING THE PANDEMIC AND OTHER THINGS.

I WANT TO, THOUGH, START WITH THE INDEPENDENT.

WHEN DID IT START, WHO DOES IT SERVE, WHAT'S THE AREA, AND THEN WE'LL GET INTO WHAT YOU ACTUALLY WROTE AND SOME OF THE CHALLENGES YOU'RE FACING OUT THERE.

Leota: OKAY.

THE INDEPENDENT IS A WEEKLY COMMUNITY NEWSPAPER.

WE COVER ABOUT 4000 SQUARE MILES IN THE CENTER OF NEW MEXICO.

EASTERN BERNALILLO COUNTY, SOUTHERN SANTA FE COUNTY, AND ALL OF TORRANCE COUNTY, AND EVEN A LITTLE BIT OF THE PERIPHERY OF THAT IF IT'S WARRANTED.

WE'RE A WEEKLY PRINT NEWSPAPER, AT LEAST WE WERE UNTIL THE END OF JANUARY.

YOU KNOW, WE COVER TOWNS, WE COVER HIGH SCHOOL SPORTS, WE COVER ALL THE THINGS, A FEW REGIONAL ISSUES.

WE DON'T REALLY GET TOO DEEPLY INTO REGIONAL ISSUES, BECAUSE WE HAVEN'T GOT THE STAFF, FRANKLY.

AND THAT'S ABOUT -- OH, IT'S BEEN AROUND SINCE 1999.

IT WAS CREATED IN TIJERAS BY A GUY NAMED WALLY GORDON.

WE HAD AN EMPLOYEE BUY-OUT FROM HIM IN 2010.

THERE WERE FOUR OF US INITIALLY, AND I'M THE LAST ONE, YOU KNOW, STILL CRAZY ENOUGH TO WANT TO TRY AND DO THIS.

Gene: BLESS YOU.

BLESS YOUR HEART.

INTERESTING, WHAT'S THE STAFF CURRENTLY?

IS IT JUST YOU AT THIS POINT, LEOTA?

Gene: THE STAFF CURRENTLY IS DECIMATED.

I GOT COVID AT THE END OF JANUARY, I WAS OUT FOR ALL OF FEBRUARY, AND, YOU KNOW, WE'RE A FAMILY BUSINESS, AND SO I HAD MY DAUGHTER AND MY SON-IN-LAW WORKING FOR ME, AND THEY BOTH HAD TO, YOU KNOW, TAKE A JOB, IN A NUTSHELL.

SO OUR STAFF IS MINIMAL CURRENTLY.

Gene: IF THERE WAS ONE CHALLENGE -- I KNOW THE OBVIOUS ANSWER IS MONEY HERE, BUT IF THERE WAS ONE BIG CHALLENGE JUST KEEPING YOU FROM GETTING BACK TO WHERE YOU WERE BEFORE, WHAT WOULD IT BE?

IS IT FINDING QUALITY REPORTERS AND EMPLOYEES?

I MEAN, WE'VE GOT A GOOD AMOUNT HERE.

IS IT FINDING THE ADVERTISING?

WHAT'S THE BIGGEST CHALLENGE YOU'RE FACING RIGHT NOW?

Leota: THE BIGGEST CHALLENGE IS PROBABLY FINDING THE ADVERTISING.

YOU KNOW, OUR BREAD AND BUTTER IS REALLY MOM AND POPS AND THEY'VE BEEN HIT REALLY HARD BY THE PANDEMIC, AS WELL, AND SO WE HAD, THROUGHOUT 2020 AND 2021, WE HAD PEOPLE SAYING, WE CAN'T ADVERTISE, WE DON'T EVEN KNOW IF WE'RE GOING TO BE OPEN NEXT WEEK.

AS A PERSON CURRENTLY IN THAT POSITION, I HAVE A LOT MORE EMPATHY FOR THAT NOW, BECAUSE IT'S A REAL STRUGGLE WHEN YOU DON'T KNOW IF YOU'RE GOING TO MAKE PAYROLL, YOU DON'T KNOW IF YOU CAN BUY YOUR PRODUCT, YOU DON'T KNOW IF YOU CAN DO ANYTHING, LET ALONE PROMOTE YOUR BUSINESS.

SO I THINK THAT'S PROBABLY THE BIGGEST, BECAUSE THE MODEL OF NEWSPAPERS HAS BEEN SO HEAVILY RELIANT ON ADVERTISING.

IF YOU HAVE ANY -- IF THERE'S ANY GLITCH WITH THE ADVERTISERS, THE NEWSPAPER, YOU KNOW, MAYBE A FEW STEPS DOWN THE ROAD, BUT REALLY FEELS THAT IMPACT.

Gene: HEY, PETER RICE, WHEN DID YOU START DOWNTOWN ALBUQUERQUE NEWS?

WHAT MONTH AND WHAT YEAR WAS THAT?

Peter: THAT WAS AUGUST OF 2019.

Gene: HOW QUICKLY GOOD TIMES GO.

I DIDN'T REALIZE IT WAS THAT FAR BACK.

Peter: YEAH, A FEW THINGS HAVE HAPPENED.

Gene: THAT'S RIGHT.

NOW, LET FOLKS KNOW A LITTLE BIT ABOUT YOUR BACKGROUND, TOO.

YOU DIDN'T JUST POP OUT OF THE EARTH AND START THIS PUBLICATION.

YOU'VE BEEN IN THE NEWS BUSINESS FOR A WHILE.

SO GO AHEAD, TELL US ABOUT YOUR BACKGROUND, AS WELL.

Peter: SURE.

YEAH, I'VE DONE SOME WORK FOR KUNM OVER THE YEARS AND FOR THE ALBUQUERQUE TRIBUNE, RIGHT BEFORE IT WENT OUT OF BUSINESS THERE.

BEFORE THAT, I MEAN, I WAS A WEIRD NERDY HOME SCHOOLER, SO I WAS DOING COMMUNITY RADIO AND FUN THINGS LIKE THAT BACK WHEN I WAS A TEENAGER GROWING UP IN OLYMPIA, WASHINGTON.

SO I HATE TO ADMIT IT, BUT I THINK I'M ALMOST A VETERAN OF THIS BUSINESS.

PROBABLY MEANS I'M OLD.

Gene: THAT'S RIGHT.

WHY DOWNTOWN ALBUQUERQUE AS A NEWS BEAT?

I'M SO CURIOUS.

Peter: WELL, I LIVE HERE, SO THAT WAS AN OBVIOUS ANSWER, BECAUSE I KIND OF HAD A HEADS UP ON THAT.

IT WAS AN ADVANTAGE.

I KNEW WHERE EVERYTHING WAS, MORE OR LESS.

AND I THINK FROM A JOURNALISTIC PERSPECTIVE, IT'S EASIER TO DO NICHE PUBLICATION ABOUT AN AREA THAT KIND OF HAS A COHERENT SENSE OF ITSELF.

AND I THINK THE RIVER, I-25, I-40, THOSE ARE ALL NOT JUST LITERAL, PHYSICAL DIVIDING LINES, BUT THEY ARE MAJOR PSYCHOLOGICAL DIVIDING LINES, AND IF YOU LIVE ON ONE SIDE OF THOSE, YOU KIND OF THINK A CERTAIN WAY AND ORIENT TOWARD CERTAIN THINGS, AND IF YOU LIVE ON THE OTHER SIDE, YOU THINK A DIFFERENT WAY AND YOU ORIENT TOWARD DIFFERENT THINGS.

SO IT WAS A GOOD LITTLE NICHE TO MINE THERE.

Gene: THERE'S NO LACK OF REPORTING ON, YOU KNOW, WHAT YOU'VE BEEN ABLE TO DIG UP.

I HONESTLY HAD NO IDEA THERE WAS SO MUCH GOING ON.

I LIVE DOWN HERE, TOO, AND UNTIL YOUR PUBLICATION CAME OUT, I DIDN'T REALIZE THERE WAS SO MUCH GOING ON AROUND ME, HONESTLY.

I'M CURIOUS WHAT THE FEEDBACK'S BEEN FROM DOWNTOWN FOLKS.

HOW HAVE YOU BEEN RECEIVED SINCE 2019?

Peter: I WOULD SAY PRETTY WELL.

YEAH, PRETTY WELL HERE, AND CRICKETS EVERYWHERE ELSE.

BECAUSE LIKE I SAID, IT IS A DOWNTOWN PUBLICATION, AND FRANKLY, IF YOU LIVE IN NOB HILL, EVEN, OR THE NORTH VALLEY, YOU PROBABLY DON'T CARE.

BUT YOU'RE RIGHT, THERE IS A LOT GOING ON DOWN HERE.

I WAS ACTUALLY KIND OF WORRIED AT ONE POINT THAT MAYBE I WOULD RUN OUT OF NEWS, BUT I'M HAVING THE OPPOSITE PROBLEM.

THERE'S ALL KINDS OF STUFF GOING ON.

AND PART OF THAT IS JUST BECAUSE IT IS THE CITY CENTER, THERE'S A LOT OF REDEVELOPMENT STUFF HAPPENING ALL THE TIME, SEAT OF GOVERNMENT, ALL THAT SORT OF THING.

SO THERE'S PLENTY TO DO.

IN RETROSPECT, I PROBABLY SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN WORRIED.

Gene: NOW, LEOTA, YOU MENTIONED A PHENOMENAL SQUARE MILE FOOTAGE THAT YOU HAVE TO SERVE.

THAT'S UNBELIEVABLE.

I HAVE TO IMAGINE THAT'S A LOT OF DISPIRIT NEEDS, AS WELL, WHEN IT COMES TO NEWS.

GIVE US AGAIN THE SQUARE MILES YOU'RE DEALING WITH HERE.

Leota: IT'S APPROXIMATELY 4000 SQUARE MILES.

SO IF YOU CAN IMAGINE A SQUARE THAT GOES FROM, YOU KNOW, MAYBE MADRID OVER TO STANLEY, SOUTH DOWN TO ESTANCIA-WILLARD, BACK WEST OVER TO MOUNTAINAIR AND THEN BACK UP THROUGH THE MANZANOS AND THE SANDIAS, AND EVERYTHING IN THE MIDDLE OF THAT.

IT'S HUGELY DIVERSE.

THERE'S A BUNCH OF IT THAT'S BEDROOM COMMUNITIES OF ALBUQUERQUE.

AREA-WISE, THE MAJORITY OF IT IS VERY RURAL, YOU KNOW.

NOT SO MUCH SUBURBAN, BUT ACTUAL, YOU KNOW, RURAL.

I'M SURPRISED THAT MY CHICKENS HAVEN'T MADE A BIG RUCKUS YET.

SO THERE'S A LOT OF POVERTY IN SOME AREAS OF IT, OTHER AREAS OF IT ARE EXTREMELY AFFLUENT.

IT IS ALL THE WAY DIVERSE.

Gene: WHEN I PICTURE IN MY MIND'S EYE HOW YOU JUST DESCRIBED THAT SQUARE, THERE'S A WHOLE LOT OF INTERESTING STUFF THERE.

THAT'S VERY INTERESTING.

AND PETER, YOU'RE ON THE EXACT OPPOSITE.

AGAIN, WE COVERED THIS, BUT YOU HAVE A ZONE YOU DESCRIBED EARLIER.

IT AIN'T 4000 MILES SQUARE, THAT'S FOR SURE, BUT IT IS PRETTY DEEP.

THAT'S THE OPPOSITE.

LIKE TO MY MIND, I'M ALWAYS SAYING, HOW DOES PETER KEEP UP WITH THE ROTATION THAT COMES VERY QUICKLY, PROBABLY MORE QUICKLY THAN ANY OTHER PART OF THE STATE OF NEW MEXICO, ARGUABLY, WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT IT.

SO YOUR SOURCES.

YOU HAVE TO REALLY -- IT'S LIKE A GOOD OLD FASHIONED NEWSPAPER, YOU CULTIVATE A LOT OF RELATIONSHIPS AND HAVE PEOPLE FEEDING INTO YOU AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

IS THAT PART OF YOUR WORK, AS WELL?

Peter: YEAH.

AND I'M FASCINATED BY THE COMPARISON WITH THE INDEPENDENT IN EDGEWOOD, BECAUSE IT SEEMS UTTERLY ABSURD AND OUR BUSINESS MODELS ARE ALMOST POLAR OPPOSITES, BUT IN SOME WAYS, IT'S VERY SIMILAR, BECAUSE I'VE LONG THOUGHT THAT SMALL TOWN PAPERS DID A BETTER JOB OF COVERING THEIR CONSTITUENTS THAN BIG TOWN PAPERS.

AND I CAME TO ALBUQUERQUE FROM A SMALL TOWN PAPER ON THE OREGON COAST, AND I'M PRETTY MUCH -- FOR DOWNTOWN ALBUQUERQUE NEWS, ALL I DID WAS COPY THAT MODEL, BRING IT INTO A PURELY DIGITAL AGE, I DON'T HAVE A PRINTING PRESS OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT, AND PLANT IT ON WHAT I THINK ARE FOUR OR FIVE SQUARE MILES IN DOWNTOWN ALBUQUERQUE.

SO ONE SQUARE MILE FOR EVERY THOUSAND THAT LEOTA HAS GOT TO DEAL WITH.

BUT, YEAH, IT REALLY IS -- IN A SMALL TOWN PAPER, YOU CAN GET TO KNOW EVERYBODY.

YOU HAVE A PRETTY CLOSE BEAT.

YOU GO TO A LOT OF MEETINGS.

YOU GO TO A LOT OF COFFEES.

AND IT REALLY HELPS TO LIVE IN THE AREA AND YOU CAN WALK AROUND AND NOTICE STORY IDEAS, EVEN WHEN YOU'RE ON YOUR DAY OFF OR SOMETHING.

AND YOU CAN REALLY GO DEEP IN BOTH A SMALL TOWN AND A SMALL PART OF A BIG TOWN, AND I THINK THAT REALLY IS SORT OF THE ATOMIC LEVEL OF LOCAL JOURNALISM.

LIKE WHEN I WAS AT THE TRIBUNE, YOU KNOW, COVERING A METRO AREA, IT DID NOT FEEL LIKE LOCAL JOURNALISM.

TECHNICALLY IT WAS.

IT CERTAINLY WASN'T THE NEW YORK TIMES.

BUT YOU'RE KIND OF SKIMMING ABOVE THIS MASSIVE METRO AREA OF 700,000-800,000 PEOPLE, AND IT IS EXTREMELY DIFFICULT TO IMPOSSIBLE TO REALLY GET DOWN INTO THE NITTY-GRITTY OF THINGS TO THE POINT WHERE YOU CAN REPORT STORIES FROM THE GROUND UP.

IN OTHER WORDS, YOU CAN, FOR WHAT LEOTA DOES, I IMAGINE, FOR WHAT I DO, YOU CAN JUST NOTICE THINGS BEFORE THE OFFICIALS ARE TALKING ABOUT THEM.

STUFF HAPPENS AT A NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION MEETING, OR YOU MEET SOMEONE ON THE STREET, OR YOU JUST WALK BY AND YOU NOTICE SOMETHING IS A LITTLE DIFFERENT, THAT BECOMES THE STORY THAT YOU THEN BRING THE HIGHER UPS IN.

WHEN I WAS WORKING AT A METRO PAPER, IT WAS JUST THE OPPOSITE.

WE DIDN'T HAVE TIME TO GET DOWN TO THE NITTY-GRITTY OF THE BEAT, AND SO WE WERE DOING THIS, YOU KNOW, TOP-DOWN JOURNALISM THAT I REALLY DON'T THINK RANG AS TRUE AS WHAT I DO TODAY AND WHAT I DID AT A SMALL TOWN PAPER IN OREGON.

SO LEOTA, WE'RE NOT SO DIFFERENT YOU AND I, AS THE MOVIE VILLAINS LIKE TO SAY.

Gene: RYAN, LET ME ASK YOU, FROM THE LAS VEGAS OPTICS, YOU KNOW, ROMERO, NEW MEXICO, IS A LOT DIFFERENT THAN DOWNTOWN ALBUQUERQUE, AND I'M CURIOUS ABOUT YOUR GEOGRAPHIC IMPRINT FOR THE LAS VEGAS OPTIC.

FIRST OF ALL, HOW FAR DO YOU GUYS COVER?

Ryan: OFFICIALLY, SAN MIGUEL COUNTY AND MORA COUNTY.

I STILL DON'T THINK IT'S AS BIG AS LEOTA'S COVERAGE AREA.

WE'RE TALKING VERY FOCUSED ON LAS VEGAS, BUT DOWN INTO PECOS, UP INTO RURAL MORA.

SOMETIMES BEYOND IF THERE'S SOMETHING THAT CONNECTS A STORY TO EITHER OF THOSE COUNTIES.

BUT THOSE ARE TWO VERY BIG COUNTIES, VERY RURAL COUNTIES.

SO YOU HAVE LAS VEGAS, WHICH IS ONLY SOMETHING LIKE SEVEN SQUARE MILES AS A CITY, ABOUT 16,000 PEOPLE, AND THEN YOU HAVE A LOT OF RURAL AREA THAT WE ALSO DO COVER.

THERE IS A DEFINITE DIFFERENCE IN WHAT'S COVERED IN THE RURAL AREA VERSUS IN LAS VEGAS PROPER, BUT ULTIMATELY A LOT OF THOSE THINGS ARE LINKED, PARTICULARLY WITH GOVERNMENT COVERAGE AND THOSE KINDS OF THINGS.

Gene: I APPRECIATE THAT YOU SIT WITH MULTIPLE EDITORS, YOU SIT WITH MULTIPLE PUBLISHERS.

YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN?

YOU HAVE A DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE ON THESE THINGS.

WHERE IS INDEPENDENT JOURNALISM IN NEW MEXICO AT THIS POINT IN YOUR VIEW?

Ryan: I THINK IT'S IN A BETTER PLACE THAN PROBABLY A LOT OF PEOPLE SUSPECT OR THINK OF IT AS.

I MEAN, JOURNALISM WORLDWIDE IS TOUGH RIGHT NOW AND IT'S CONSTANTLY UNDER ATTACK.

WE'VE BEEN LABELED THE ENEMY OF THE PEOPLE BY FORMER LEADERS, AND THINGS LIKE THAT DOESN'T HELP.

SO IT'S AN INDUSTRY THAT'S DEFINITELY BEEN BEATEN UP.

AS JOURNALISTS, I THINK MANY OF US FEEL BEATEN UP.

BUT NEW MEXICO HAS A FANTASTIC CLOSE-KNIT JOURNALISM COMMUNITY.

THERE ARE SO MANY TALENTED, DEDICATED JOURNALISTS HERE.

SO I THINK THAT STRENGTHENS ALL OF JOURNALISM IN TERMS OF INDEPENDENT JOURNALISM.

IT'S A GOOD POOL TO DRAW FROM OF PEOPLE WHO CARE, PEOPLE WHO WANT TO TELL STORIES IN THEIR COMMUNITY AND INFORM.

SO I THINK IT'S PRETTY STRONG IN AN INDUSTRY THAT'S ROUGH, IN GENERAL.

Gene: LET ME ASK YOU ANOTHER QUESTION, RYAN, AND LEOTA, I'D LIKE YOU TO PICK UP ON THIS, AS WELL.

ALL BUSINESSES RISE OR FALL ON THIS SIMPLE THEME.

YOU'RE EITHER GROWING OR YOU'RE SHRINKING.

AND I GUESS I'M CURIOUS, STARTING WITH YOU, RYAN, HOW DO WE GROW MORE READERS OF INDEPENDENT NEWS SITES?

THAT SEEMS TO BE THE BIGGEST CHALLENGE HERE, TO GET PEOPLE TO STOP DEFAULTING TO THE BIGGER PUBLICATIONS AUTOMATICALLY.

Ryan: AWARENESS IS PROBABLY KEY, I THINK.

THERE ARE A NUMBER OF INDEPENDENT PUBLICATIONS, AND THEY DON'T NECESSARILY HAVE THE VISIBILITY THAT SOME OF THE LARGER OUTLETS HAVE.

AND, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF PEOPLE PROBABLY DON'T KNOW THAT THERE ARE TARGETED PUBLICATIONS LIKE DOWNTOWN ALBUQUERQUE NEWS THAT THEY CAN EVEN GO TO.

SO GETTING THAT WORD OUT IS TOUGH, AND FOR THOSE OUTLETS, HOW TO DO THAT.

ADVERTISING COSTS A LOT OF MONEY.

THAT'S GOING TO BE A HUGE CHUNK OF AN INVESTMENT FOR ANYONE RUNNING AN INDEPENDENT OUTLET.

SO OTHER WAYS OF GETTING IT OUT THERE, SOCIAL MEDIA, WORD OF MOUTH, I THINK THOSE CAN HELP A LOT OF OUTLETS.

Gene: LEOTA, I'M SURE YOU'RE FIGHTING THIS BATTLE.

EVERY MORNING YOU WAKE UP, HOW DO I GET MORE READERS AND MAKE MY NUMBERS BETTER THAT ADVERTISERS CAN THEN RESPOND TO.

HOW DOES AN INDEPENDENT DO THAT, ATTRACT MORE READERS ON A REGULAR BASIS?

Leota: I THINK THE MAIN THING IS TO BE RELEVANT.

YOU KNOW, YOU'VE GOT TO BE COVERING THE THINGS THAT PEOPLE WANT TO KNOW ABOUT, OR THE THINGS THAT THEY DON'T KNOW THAT THEY WANT TO KNOW ABOUT.

I HAD A CONVERSATION WITH MY GRANDSON A COUPLE OF DAYS AGO, HE'S GOING TO TURN 16 IN A FEW WEEKS, AND I WAS TRYING TO POINT HIM TOWARDS SOMETHING WE HAD PUT IN THE INDEPENDENT, AND HE WAS GOING, OHHHH, YOU KNOW.

SO I ASKED HIM, WELL, WHAT DO YOU WANT TO DO TO STAY INFORMED, AND IF YOU WANT TO FIND OUT SOMETHING GOING ON, WHAT DO YOU DO?

AND HE SAID, OH, I JUST GOOGLE IT.

AND I SAID, WELL, OKAY, GREAT, BUT WHAT IF THE HIT THAT YOU GET IS A NEWSPAPER?

BECAUSE HE WAS LIKE, I JUST DON'T WANT TO READ NEWSPAPERS, DON'T WANT TO READ A NEWSPAPER, DON'T WANT TO READ A NEWSPAPER.

I SAID, WHAT IF YOUR GOOGLE HITS A NEWSPAPER?

HE STILL DOESN'T WANT TO READ IT.

I KNOW!

I KNOW!

HOW DO YOU GET AROUND THAT KIND OF THING?

I DON'T KNOW.

I MEAN, I THINK THAT'S THE HOLY GRAIL IN NEWSPAPERS RIGHT NOW.

WHEN WE FIGURE THAT OUT, THEN WE'RE ALL GOING TO SLEEP EASY.

Gene: YOU MAKE AN INTERESTING POINT, NOT TO CUT YOU OFF, BUT IT IS A GENERATIONAL THING, PART OF THE PROBLEM, ISN'T IT?

YOUNGER PEOPLE ARE JUST NOT IN THE HABIT OF PICKING UP A PAPER EVERY DAY.

Leota: YES.

SO WE DO THINGS LIKE FREE DISTRIBUTION IN THE SCHOOLS, AND TRY TO PUT A LOT OF YOUNG PEOPLE INTO THE NEWSPAPER SO THAT THEY HAVE A REASON TO WANT TO OPEN THE THING UP.

SO WE TRY TO PUT KIDS IN, WE TRY TO PUT TEENAGERS IN, WE'VE GOT THE HIGH SCHOOL SPORTS.

AND I ALSO FEEL LIKE THAT'S A POPULATION WHOSE VOICE IS NOT HEARD ENOUGH IN THE PAGES OF NEWSPAPERS, AND THAT'S YOUNG PEOPLE, KIDS, TEENAGERS, EARLY 20s, THAT KIND OF THING.

SO WHY WOULD THEY PICK UP A NEWSPAPER IF THERE'S NOTHING RELEVANT TO THEM?

Endion: IF WE CAN SPEND SOME TIME AT EVENTS OR JUST GETTING TOGETHER FOR THESE BOSQUE THEATERS AND CELEBRATE WHAT WE HAVE, INSTEAD OF KEEP TALKING ABOUT HOW IT WAS AND HOW WE NEED TO CHANGE IT, AND JUST SAY LIKE, HEY, I LIKE THAT TREE, YOU KNOW, OR LIKE, WOW, I LOVE DRINKING WATER, IT HELPS.

IT REALLY DOES.

Gene: THE FIRST LEGAL SALES OF RECREATIONAL CANNABIS ARE HERE IN NEW MEXICO.

WE'RE NOW THE 18th STATE TO ALLOW IT, AND THERE ARE SOME RULES AND GUIDELINES YOU SHOULD KNOW ABOUT ON DAY ONE.

ALL ADULTS AGED 21 AND UP IN NEW MEXICO ARE NOW ALLOWED TO BUY UP TO TWO OUNCES OF CANNABIS AT LICENSED RETAILERS.

THERE'S ONE IMPORTANT NOTE.

NOW THAT IT'S LEGAL, YOU STILL CAN'T LIGHT UP ANYWHERE YOU'D LIKE.

YOU'LL BE ABLE TO SMOKE OR EAT AN EDIBLE AT DESIGNATED CASINOS, CIGAR BARS OR TOBACCO STORES.

IN OTHER PUBLIC PLACES, IT WILL BE TREATED MUCH LIKE ALCOHOL OR CIGARETTES.

THE STATE FIRST ALLOWED MEDICAL CANNABIS 15 YEARS AGO, NOW RETAILERS ARE REQUIRED TO RESERVE 20 PERCENT OF SUPPLIES FOR THOSE MEDICAL PATIENTS.

THE STATE SAYS THIS WILL PREVENT PRODUCT SHORTAGES FOR PATIENTS WHO NEED IT MOST, DESPITE CONCERNS FROM NONPROFIT GROUPS.

AS FOR THE SHOPS THEMSELVES, THE STATE HAS APPROVED 225 RETAIL LICENSES, THOUGH NOT ALL OF THEM ARE OPEN ON DAY ONE.

LOCAL MUNICIPALITIES ARE ALLOWED TO CREATE THEIR OWN RULES ABOUT WHERE THOSE BUSINESSES CAN OPERATE.

NOW, IN TOTAL THE STATE HAS APPROVED MORE THAN 500 CANNABIS BUSINESS PREMISES, WHICH INCLUDES GREENHOUSES, FARMS AND TESTING FACILITIES.

ALL CANNABIS PRODUCTS WILL NEED TO BE CHECKED FOR CONTAMINANTS AT A TESTING FACILITY THAT'S LICENSED BY THE STATE'S CANNABIS CONTROL OFFICE.

NOW, RECREATIONAL CANNABIS WILL ALSO COST A BIT MORE THAN MEDICAL.

RIGHT NOW THERE'S A 12 PERCENT STATE TAX, BUT THAT WILL EVENTUALLY RISE TO 18 PERCENT, AND THAT'S ON TOP OF THE STANDARD SALES TAX.

MEDICAL CANNABIS, OF COURSE, IS TAX FREE.

SO WHERE WILL THAT MONEY GO?

STATE AND LOCAL GOVERNMENTS ARE ESTIMATING TAX REVENUES OVER $45 MILLION WITHIN THREE YEARS, AND SO TWO-THIRDS OF THE TAX REVENUE GOES TOWARDS THE STATE GENERAL FUND AND ONE-THIRD WILL GO BACK TO LOCAL GOVERNMENTS.

THERE ARE SOME CHANGES ON THE LAW ENFORCEMENT END OF THINGS, TOO.

POLICE CAN NO LONGER CITE THE SMELL OF MARIJUANA AS A CAUSE OF SEARCHING VEHICLES OR PRIVATE PROPERTY, AND ACCORDING TO THE NEW MEXICO DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY, MORE THAN 150,000 ARRESTS OR CONVICTIONS COULD BE WIPED FROM THE BOOKS UNDER NEW AUTOMATIC EXPUNGEMENT GUIDANCE, AND PROSECUTORS HAVE UNTIL JULY 1st TO RAISE OBJECTIONS IN THOSE CASES.

WE'LL BE TRACKING ALL THOSE DEVELOPMENTS SURROUNDING THE LEGALIZATION OVER THE COMING WEEKS AND MONTHS.

NOW HERE IS ENVIRONMENT REPORTER LAURA PASKUS.

Laura: I'M LAURA PASKUS, AND LIKE MANY OF YOU I THINK ABOUT THE IMPACTS OF CLIMATE CHANGE ON OUR STATE AND OUR COMMUNITIES.

AND I, TOO, FEEL GRIEF WHEN I SEE OUR RIVERS DRY OR OUR FORESTS BURN.

ON THIS MONTH'S EPISODE OF 'OUR LAND,' I SPOKE WITH LARRY RASMUSSEN, PROFESSOR EMERITUS AT UNION THEOLOGICAL SEMINARY, ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE AND FAITH AND FAITH AND MOURNING.

WE TALK A LOT ABOUT THE SCIENCE OF CLIMATE CHANGE AND CULTURAL ISSUES AROUND CLIMATE CHANGE.

I WANTED TO TALK WITH YOU TODAY ABOUT WHERE FAITH FITS INTO CLIMATE ACTIVISM.

Rasmussen: SOMEONE HAS SAID THAT FAITH IS A CITADEL PERCHED AT THE EDGE OF DESPAIR, AND I THINK THAT THAT IS THE CASE.

WHEN PEOPLE ARE IN REALLY ROUGH PLACES, WHETHER IT'S JUST FOR THEMSELVES PERSONALLY OR IN THEIR FAMILY OR IN THEIR COMMUNITY, OR WHETHER IT'S A WHOLE NATION, EVEN A PLANET, FIRST OF ALL, I THINK FAITH IS A KIND OF WAY OF SAYING YES TO LIFE IN SPITE OF EVERYTHING.

I MEAN, WE TALK ABOUT IT THAT WAY.

FAITH IS KIND OF A CREST IN THINGS WE HAVE NOT YET SEEN THAT THEY ARE YET POSSIBLE.

Laura: IN YOUR 2013 BOOK WHICH I REALIZE WE ARE IN 2022 NOW, BUT YOU WROTE IN THIS BOOK THAT AS THE WORLD HAS CHANGED, WE MUST LEARN TO SING A NEW SONG IN A STRANGE LAND.

Rasmussen: YEAH.

Laura: WHAT IS THIS STRANGE LAND AND HOW DO WE SING A NEW SONG?

Rasmussen: YEAH, WITH DIFFICULTY.

THE STRANGE LAND IS THAT WE HAVE CHANGED THE PLANET.

AND WHAT IS NOT IN THAT BOOK EXCEPT TO BE MENTIONED AT THE VERY OUTSET, IS THAT WE HAVE ACTUALLY MOVED INTO A DIFFERENT GEOLOGICAL EPOCH.

I THINK IT IS MASSIVE THAT WE HAVE GONE FROM THE HOLOCENE WHICH RELIED ON A BALANCED CLIMATE, INTO THE ANTHROPOCENE EPOCH, BUT WE'LL HAVE TO FIGURE OUT A WAY TO MANAGE AND ADAPT CIVILIZATION, IF IT SURVIVES UNDER CONDITIONS OF CLIMATE VOLATILITY RATHER THAN STABILITY AND CLIMATE UNFRIENDLINESS RATHER THAN FRIENDLINESS.

SO LEARNING TO SING A STRANGE -- A NEW SONG IN A STRANGE LAND, THEN, REQUIRES CERTAINLY CREATIVITY ADAPTABILITY, RESILIENCE AND PROBABLY SHEER GRIT AND IT'S GOING TO BE IN THE FACE OF SUFFERING ON A SCALE WE HAVE NOT SEEN AS A RESULT OF NATURAL DISASTERS.

Laura: YOU SHARED WITH ME A LETTER THAT YOU WROTE TO YOUR GRANDCHILDREN ABOUT THIS COMING TREND TRANSITION AND YOU WROTE, IF THE TUMULTUOUS WORLD HASN'T STOPPED BEING BEAUTIFUL NEITHER HAS LOVE STOPPED BEING LOVE.

IN THIS WORLD OF HUGE UNCERTAINTY AND TRANSITION WHAT DOES LOVE, WHAT DOES BEAUTY MATTER?

Rasmussen: A LOT.

I DON'T THINK WE FIND OUR WAY EXCEPT THROUGH THE KIND OF RELATIONSHIPS THAT ARE NURTURED BY LOVE AMID THIS CHANGING AND CHANGED PLANET, FIND OUR WAY WITHOUT A SENSE OF WONDER, WITHOUT A SENSE OF BEING ON A JOURNEY WHICH IS MUCH GREATER THAN OUR LITTLE SLICE OF TIME.

Laura: AS AN ENVIRONMENT REPORTER I HAVE SO MANY PEOPLE CONTACT ME TALKING ABOUT OR WRITING ABOUT THEIR ANXIETY AND THEIR DEPRESSION AND THEIR GRIEF AS THEY SEE, YOU KNOW, OUR RIVER DRY, OUR SNOW PACKLESS MOUNTAINS, OUR MOUNTAINS AFTER A FIRE.

ARE THERE LESSONS IN THE FAITH COMMUNITY TO HELP US DEAL WITH THESE LOSSES?

Rasmussen: THERE ARE.

WHETHER AND HOW MUCH WE DRAW UPON THEM WILL VARY A LOT FROM CONGREGATION TO CONGREGATION, IN PART BECAUSE WE HAVE, ESPECIALLY WHITE FOLK, HAVE SO BENEFITED FROM THE INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION AND WHAT IT BROUGHT THAT WE HARDLY EVEN NOTICED THAT BURNING FOSSIL FUELS WAS DESTROYING THE KIND OF PLANET THAT WAS YIELDING THESE BENEFITS.

SO IT'S HARDER FOR WHITE FOLK TO KNOW THE TRADITIONS OF LAMENT, TO THE TRADITIONS OF LIVING WITH AND THROUGH A APOCALYPSE, TO KNOW THE TRADITIONS OF HAVING TO SING A NEW SONG IN A STRANGE LAND.

SO I'M TRYING TO SAY, NOT EVERYONE EVERYWHERE WILL BE TAPPING INTO THESE, BUT NOW ECO LAMENT IS A REALITY FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE, RELIGIOUS AND SECULAR PEOPLE, AND THERE ARE TRADITIONS OF ECO LAMENT.

FAITH TRADITIONS HAVE ARISEN ACTUALLY IN THE FACE OF DISASTER AND HAVE CONTINUED TO ADDRESS DISASTER.

JUST AS A FAMILY HAS TO COME TOGETHER, THEY DON'T ALWAYS DO, BUT JUST AS THEY HAVE TO COME TOGETHER IN THE FACE OF TRAGEDY IN THE FAMILY, SO FAITH TRADITIONS HAVE DONE THAT OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN IN THE FACE OF TRAGEDY AND DESPAIR AND REASONS FOR LAMENT AND ANXIETY ABOUT THE FUTURE.

SO I THINK YOU TAKE OLD EXPERIENCES, TEXTS, COMMUNITIES, THAT IT'S COUNTERINTUITIVE THAT IN A NO ANALOGUE WORLD YOU WOULD BE LOOKING FOR ANCIENT WISDOM, BUT ANYTHING -- ANY HUMAN COMMUNITIES THAT HAVE BEEN AROUND FOR A MILLENNIA, LIKE FAITH COMMUNITIES HAVE, HAS ACCUMULATED A LOT OF WISDOM AND NEEDS TO BE REVISED, NEEDS TO BE ADAPTED, SOMETHING NEW NEEDS TO BE CREATED, IN ALL LIKELIHOOD.

BUT THE RESOURCES ARE THERE, THE EXPERIENCES ARE THERE.

Laura: YOU ALSO WRITE IN YOUR 2013 BOOK, OR YOU ASK WHERE DO WE TURN WHEN WE DISCOVER THAT THE RELIGION WE HAVE LIVED BY SINCE THE INDUSTRIAL TECHNOLOGICAL ERA EMERGED, ETERNAL AND EXPONENTIAL ECONOMIC GROWTH IS AN ILLUSION, DOGMA MASQUERADING AS COMMON SENSE AND KEPT ALIVE BY WILLPOWER AND LITTLE ELSE.

I WANT TO TALK ABOUT THAT, BUT I ALSO WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE ROLE THAT WHITE SUPREMACY HAS PLAYED IN FAITH AND IN CAUSING CLIMATE CHANGE, AND WHERE THOSE INTERSECT AND HOW WE PULL THEM APART FOR A DIFFERENT WORLD.

Rasmussen: YEAH.

WELL, LET ME START WITH THE LATTER POINT.

CLIMATE CHANGE IS A RESULT OF THE INSTITUTIONS THAT AROSE OUT OF THE INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION AND THAT WENT GLOBAL BY WAY OF CONQUEST AND COLONIZATION.

GIVEN THE INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION, THE FORM THAT THAT TOOK, WAS ONE WHICH NOW HAS BROUGHT US TO PLANET SYSTEM CHANGE, CHANGING THE SYSTEMS, PLANETARY SYSTEMS, THEMSELVES AND IT IS WE WHO ARE WHITE WHO ARE MOST DEEPLY EMERSED IN WHAT WE BENEFITED FROM THAT.

ONE THING THAT IS HAPPENING IN THEOLOGY IS A KIND OF DECOLONIZATION OF THEOLOGY THAT HAS BEEN WHITE AND IN A UNIVERSAL VOICE.

SO YOU GET BLACK THEOLOGY.

YOU GET FEMINIST THEOLOGY.

YOU GET LATINA THEOLOGY WOMANIST THEOLOGY OUT OF THE AFRICAN-AMERICAN EXPERIENCE.

YOU GET QUEER THEOLOGY.

AND THAT KIND OF DECOLONIZATION HAS TO HAPPEN BECAUSE OF THE POWER OF WHITE INSTITUTIONS IN FORGING THE MODERN WORLD.

SO UNDOING WHITE PRIVILEGE, UNDOING WHITE SUPREMACY IS ESSENTIAL TO MAKING THE TRANSITION TO SUSTAINABLE LIFE ON OTHER TERMS THAN THAT, AND THAT IS MASSIVE.

Laura: WELL, THANK YOU, LARRY, FOR JOINING ME TODAY.

Rasmussen: YES, THANK YOU.

[LAUGHTER] Laura: WE ALL KNOW THE CLIMATE IS CHANGING.

OUR BEAUTIFUL RIO GRANDE IS AFFECTED, AND SO ARE THE CREATURES WHO LIVE IN THE RIVER AND THE FOREST ALONGSIDE IT.

TALKING ABOUT THESE CHALLENGES, IT IS HARD.

BUT FINDING NEW AND DIFFERENT WAYS OF COMMUNICATING ABOUT THE ENVIRONMENT WHILE CELEBRATING IT AND HAVING FUN, THAT IS RIGHT UP ENDION SCHICHTEL’S ALLEY.

SHE'S THE RINGLEADER OF CONSERVATION CARNIVALE, WHICH PERFORMS IN THE BOSQUE AND ALSO INCLUDES A VAN OUTFITTED FOR ENVIRONMENTAL EDUCATION.

WE JOINED HER AND A FEW OF HER FRIENDS IN THE BOSQUE.

HERE'S THEIR STORY.

[ACCORDION MUSIC] Endion: EVER SINCE I WAS A KID, I WAS JUST ALWAYS FASCINATED WITH CARNIVAL, TRAVELING CIRCUS, SIDE SHOW, FREAK SHOW, FOLKLORE, AND THE ENTIRE HISTORY.

DURING THE GREAT DEPRESSION, IT WAS THE ONLY WAY PEOPLE, A LOT OF PEOPLE, COULD MAKE MONEY AND BE IN SHOWTIME, UNLESS YOU WERE WEALTHY ON THE RADIO OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

AND IT GAVE A LOT OF PEOPLE A LOT OF OPPORTUNITY JUST TO BE FED AND EMPLOYED, AND PEOPLE WHO WOULD BE OUTCASTED A CHANCE TO SHINE.

AND JUST THE WHOLE ESTHETIC OF IT I JUST THOUGHT WAS SO COOL, AND I'VE ALWAYS THOUGHT THAT.

AND EVEN THROUGH GETTING MY BIOLOGY DEGREE AND TRAVELING AND TRYING TO DO ENVIRONMENTAL ACTIVISM, I ALWAYS JUST GRAVITATED TOWARDS IT.

[GURGLING NOISE] Frank: I'M FRANK THE FISH!

I'M FRANK THE FISH, AND I'M A RIO GRANDE SILVERY MINNOW.

I'M STRANDED ON THE BANK OF THE RIO BECAUSE YOU HUMANS ARE JUST USING TOO MUCH WATER!

US RIO GRANDE SILVERY MINNOWS ARE AN ENDANGERED SPECIES.

WE NEED SLOW MOVING BACK CHANNELS IN THE FOREST TO MAKE OUR BABIES, AND THAT DOESN'T HAPPEN ANYMORE BECAUSE THE RIVER ISN'T FLOODING THE FOREST, BECAUSE YOU HUMANS ARE USING TOO WATER.

[GURGLING NOISE] Frank: HELP FRANK THE FISH, USE LESS WATER!

[GURGLING NOISE] Endion: THE CONSERVATION CARNIVALE IS A SCIENCE CIRCUS.

WE BRING THE BOSQUE TO THE PUBLIC TO TEACH ABOUT ENVIRONMENTAL EDUCATION.

WE CELEBRATE THE BOSQUE ECOSYSTEM AND WE TEACH WATER CONSERVATION, AS WELL, THROUGH CIRCUS ARTS AND PERFORMING ARTS.

WE'VE BEEN TAKING PEOPLE OUT INTO THE WOODS AND HAVING THEM INTERACT WITH CHARACTERS FROM THE ECOSYSTEM.

SO WE HAVE ABUELA COTTONWOOD TREE, PORCUPINE, AND I DON'T WANT TO SAY ALL THE NAMES, BECAUSE IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE A SURPRISE WHEN YOU'RE OUT THERE.

Abuela: OH, HORSETAIL GRASS, YOU HAVE BEEN AROUND SINCE THE DINOSAURS, MY FRIENDS.

YOU'RE ALMOST AS OLD AS ABUELA HERE.

OH, GOOD, WHAT A BEAUTIFUL DAY IN THE BOSQUE.

WHAT A BEAUTIFUL DAY IN THE BOSQUE.

AND ACTUALLY, I HAVE A FRIEND HERE.

WAKE UP, PRUDENCE!

PRUDENCE!

Prudence: OH, DEAR.

OH, DEAR.

HELLO, ABUELITA.

Abuela: HELLO!

WHAT ARE YOU DOING THERE?

Prudence: I WAS SLEEPING, YOU KNOW.

I PREFER TO NAP DURING MOST OF THE DAY.

Abuela: YES.

YOU SEE, PRUDENCE HERE IS A PORCUPINE, MY FRIENDS.

SHE IS A CREPUSCULAR BEING.

SHE SLEEPS A LOT DURING THE DAY.

SHE DOES, AND SHE LIVES ON US COTTONWOOD TREES.

AND YOU EAT US, TOO, DON'T YOU, PRUDENCE.

BAD PRUDENCE!

Prudence: IT'S TRUE.

IT'S TRUE.

I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'VE EVER TRIED IT, BUT THIS IS DELICIOUS.

THIS IS CALLED CAMBIUM, AND IT GROWS RIGHT UNDER THE BARK OF THE TREE, AND WE PORCUPINES JUST CHEW AND CHEW ON THE CAMBIUM.

IT'S DELICIOUS.

WE HAVE VERY SHARP TEETH, YOU SEE.

THIS IS MY UNCLE PETER, AND HE'S NO LONGER WITH US.

Abuela: MAY YOU REST IN PEACE, PETER.

Prudence: BUT YOU CAN SEE HIS LONG TEETH WERE CUTTING THROUGH THAT BARK AND GETTING TO THE CAMBIUM.

THAT'S WHERE WE GET OUR NUTRIENTS, YOU SEE.

AND, YES, WE ALSO FEEL VERY SAFE UP IN THE COTTONWOOD TREES.

Abuela: YES, LET'S TALK ABOUT THAT INSTEAD OF THE EATING US PART.

WE KEEP YOU SAFE, DON'T WE?

Prudence: YES.

WE ARE VERY GOOD CLIMBERS, YOU KNOW.

WE LIKE TO CLIMB HIGH UP IN THE TRIES SO WE ARE SAFE FROM THE PREDATORS.

Endion: WHEN WE HAVE ABUELA COTTONWOOD TREE OUT, KIDS WILL ASK, DOES IT HURT WHEN A WOODPECKER PECKS YOU?

SO THEY ACTUALLY LIKE REALLY DIVE INTO THAT SHE IS A CREATURE HERE.

THAT'S ALWAYS REALLY COOL, BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT QUESTIONING THAT SOMEONE IS IN COSTUME OR ANYTHING, THEY'RE ACTUALLY INTERACTING AND LOOKING AT TREES DIFFERENTLY AGAIN, AND REALIZING THEY'RE A PART OF THE SYSTEM, RIGHT.

[GUITAR MUSIC] Endion: AND BUILDING OUT THIS VAN HAS BEEN A CURE IN A LOT OF WAYS FOR MY CLIMATE ANXIETY AND MY DEPRESSION ABOUT IT.

AND CREATING AND FINDING A COMMUNITY THAT REACTS AND WANTS TO BE A PART OF IT AND PERFORM, OR JUST COME, HAS BEEN REALLY SOOTHING BECAUSE, YEAH, IT IS DAUNTING, IT IS HEAVY.

SO IF YOU CAN BE SILLY WITH IT IN ANY SORT OF WAY, WHY NOT BE HEALING IN ANY SORT OF WAY.

IF WE CAN SPEND SOME TIME AT EVENTS, OR JUST GETTING TOGETHER FOR THESE BOSQUE THEATERS AND CELIBATE WHAT WE HAVE, INSTEAD OF KEEP TALKING ABOUT HOW IT WAS AND HOW WE NEED TO CHANGE IT, AND JUST SAY, LIKE, HEY, I LIKE THAT TREE, YOU KNOW, OR LIKE, WOW, I LOVE DRINKING WATER, IT HELPS.

IT REALLY DOES.

AND I SPEAK FROM PERSONAL EXPERIENCE WITH THAT, BECAUSE I WAS DIAGNOSED WITH CLIMATE ANXIETY PRETTY HEAVILY, AND THIS WAS MY THERAPY FOR IT.

SO I'M INVITING ANYONE TO COME BE GOOFY AND BE A CARNIE, TO COME BRING SOME LEVITY, YEAH.

Gene: LEGALIZED CANNABIS HAS BEEN A LONG TIME COMING, AND WITH MORE STATES POISED TO MAKE THE SAME MOVE, IT'S QUICKLY BECOMING A MAINSTREAM ISSUE.

IF YOU'D LIKE TO LEARN MORE ABOUT THE CANNABIS INDUSTRY, LISTEN TO THE NEW MEXICO PBS PODCAST 'GROWING FORWARD' MADE IN COLLABORATION WITH NEW MEXICO POLITICAL REPORT AND KUNM.

CO-HOSTS MEGAN KAMERICK AND ANDY LYMAN EXPLORE THE POTENTIALLY WIDE RANGING IMPACTS OF LEGALIZATION, INCLUDING CRIMINAL EXPUNGEMENT, WATER RIGHTS, AND THE CARBON FOOTPRINT OF INDOOR GROW OPERATIONS.

YOU CAN FIND 'GROWING FORWARD' ANYWHERE YOU GET YOUR PODCASTS.

GIVE IT A LISTEN.

THANKS AGAIN FOR JOINING US AND FOR STAYING INFORMED AND ENGAGED.

WE'LL SEE YOU AGAIN NEXT WEEK In FOCUS.

FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO In FOCUS PROVIDED BY VIEWERS LIKE YOU.