THE GOVERNOR IS BEING CRITICIZED HOW THE STATE COUNTED COVID DEATHS AND DEMOCRATS IN D.C. TALK ABOUT GOING BIG AND GOING NOW.

WE'LL EXPLAIN MORE ON "IVORY TOWER."

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> WELCOME TO "IVORY TOWER."

I'M BARBARA FOUGHT FROM SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY.

ON THE PANEL TONIGHT TO DISCUSS THE NEWS ARE BOB SPITZER FROM SUNY CORTLAND, RICK FENNER FROM UTICA COLLEGE, NINA MOORE FROM COLGATE UNIVERSITY, AND JAMILA MICHENER FROM DID I GET THAT WRONG, AND JAMILA IS FROM CORNELL.

MY APOLOGIES.

WELL, GOVERNOR CUOMO HAS GOTTEN KUDOS FOR HOW HE HAS HANDLED THE COVID CRISIS, HE IS NOW BEING CRITICIZED FOR THE WAY THE STATE REPORTED THE DEATHS OF NURSING HOME RESIDENTS.

ALL THE DEATHS ARE IN THE TOTAL FIGURES, BUT THE STATE'S CATEGORY ONLY REPORTED THOSE WHO DIED IN THE NURSING HOMES, NOT THOSE WHO DIED IN A HOSPITAL, THUS IT SEEMED FEWER NURSING HOME RESIDENTS DIED.

THE GOVERNOR TOOK A LONG TIME CLARIFYING THIS, NINA, IS HE TO BLAME HERE?

>> YEAH, I THINK HE IS AT LEAST PARTLY TO BLAME.

AND ACTUALLY, THE A.G. REPORT POINTS OUT THAT NOT JUST HIS UNDERCOUNTS, BUT ALSO HIS POLICY OF RETURNING RESIDENTS BACK TO THE NURSING HOME IS PARTLY RESPONSIBLE FOR THE PROBLEM.

BUT THE THING IS, BARBARA, NURSING HOMES ALSO UNDERCOUNTED THEIR REPORTING TO THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH.

BUT THEY'RE ALSO GUILTY OF A NUMBER OF OTHER FAILURES THAT DON'T HAVE SO MUCH TO DO WITH THE UNDERCOUNT AS THEY DO THE HIGH RATE OF DEATHS.

AND SO NURSING HOMES WERE FOUND, BY THE A.G., TO HAVE FAILED TO FOLLOW CDC PROTOCOLS SUCH AS ISOLATING RESIDENTS WHO WERE COVID POSITIVE BUT ALSO TESTING, SCREENING EMPLOYEES AND MOST OF ALL WHAT THE REPORT FOUND IS THAT, ESPECIALLY IN THE CASE OF THE FOR-PROFIT NURSING HOMES, THEY HAD UNDERSTAFFED THE FACILITIES AND THOSE THAT WERE MOST UNDERSTAFFED ACTUALLY HAD THE GREATEST NUMBER OF DEATHS.

SO CERTAINLY THE UNDERCOUNTING MADE IT DIFFICULT TO ASSESS THE EXTENT OF THE PROBLEM.

BUT THE NURSING HOMES ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE PROBLEM ITSELF.

>> I THINK I HAVE TO BE A LITTLE BIT HAR HARBAUGH-- HAR EVERYBODIER ON THE GOVERNMENT THAN NINA.

I THINK IT IS TIED TO THE MISTAKE OF RECEIVING SENIORS EARLY IN THE PANDEMIC.

IT'S HARD NOT TO SEE A POLITICAL MOTIVATION BEHIND AN ATTEMPT TO MINIMIZE THE DEATH COUNT OF NURSING HOME RESIDENTS JUST IN ORDER TO DEFLECT CRITICISM.

I THINK HE HAS BEEN VERY THIN SKINNED ON THIS AND A NUMBER OF OTHER ISSUES.

IT IS IMPORTANT NOT TO POINT FINGERS BUT TO LEARN FROM OUR MISTAKES.

>> COUNTING IS FUNDAMENTALLY A POLITICAL ENDEAVOR.

SO DECISIONS ABOUT HOW TO COUNT, WHAT TO COUNT, HOW TO CATEGORIZE THE THINGS YOU COUNT CAN SEEM NEUTRAL OR ARBITRARY, BUT IT'S HARD TO BELIEVE THAT GOVERNOR CUOMO AND HIS ADMINISTRATION DIDN'T HAVE SOME SENSE OF THE CONSEQUENCES OF ONE CHOICE OF HOW TO COUNT NURSING HOME AND NURSING HOME DEATHS VERSUS ANOTHER.

AND ULTIMATELY THE REASON WHY IT MATTERS IS BECAUSE IT AFFECTS OUR ABILITY TO REALLY UNDERSTAND WHAT HAPPENED AND TO HOLD THE APPROPRIATE PEOPLE ACCOUNTABLE.

AND I AGREE THAT NURSING HOMES THEMSELVES HAVE POLICIES AND PRACTICES THAT REALLY PRECIPITATED THE DISASTROUS CONSEQUENCES WE SAW IN THEM OR WE HAVE SEEN IN THEM WITH COVID THESE LAST, YOU KNOW,-- I MEAN THIS LAST YEAR NOW ALMOST.

AT THE SAME TIME, NURSING HOMES THEMSELVES ARE INSTITUTIONS THAT SHOULD BE REGULATED AND HELD ACCOUNTABLE BY THE GOVERNMENT, RIGHT?

AND SO EVEN SAYING THAT NURSING HOMES ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR SOME OF THESE OUTCOMES, WHICH I AGREE WITH, DOESN'T GET US OUT OF ACKNOWLEDGING THAT GOVERNOR CUOMO AND OTHER POLICY MAKERS ALSO BEAR SOME OF THAT RESPONSIBILITY BECAUSE THEY SHOULD HAVE BEEN THE ONES OVERSEEING AND REGULATING THE NURSING HOMES.

>> YEAH, I THINK RESPONSIBILITY REALLY DOES SPREAD AROUND.

OF COURSE GOVERNOR CUOMO HAS CERTAIN POLITICAL TRAITS-- I THINK HE HAS HANDLED THE PANDEMIC EFFECTIVELY OVERALL, BUT WE KNOW FROM HIS LONG TIME IN GOVERNMENT SERVICE, THAT ANDREW CHROMO IS A MICROMANAGER, A CONTROL FREAK FRANKLY.

HE IS THIN SKINNED POLITICALLY, AND HE JUST DOESN'T TAKE CRITICISM WELL AND HE HAS RESISTED RELEASING DATA.

THERE IS AN AXIOM RELATED TO HENRY KISSINGER THAT SAYS ANYTHING THAT MUST COME OUT ULTIMATELY SHOULD COME OUT IMMEDIATELY.

BUT THAT'S NOT A RULE POLITICIANS LIKE VERY MUCH AND CUOMO CERTAINLY DOESN'T.

AND THE OTHER PROBLEM IN TERMS OF HIS HANDLING HAS BEEN THE PROBLEMS HE HAS HAD WITH THE STATE HEALTH DEPARTMENT.

AND THOSE ARE PROBLEMS THAT HE CREATED.

BECAUSE THE STATE HEALTH DEPARTMENT HAD A MECHANISM SET UP ALREADY TO GO TO ADMINISTER THE VACCINES.

BUT INSTEAD OF WORKING THROUGH THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT, HE HAS AIL YENT EIGHTED THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT.

NINE TOP OFFICIALS HAVE RESIGNED IN RECENT MONTHS FROM THAT DEPARTMENT.

AND INSTEAD HE WORKED DIRECTLY THROUGH THE HOSPITALS AND HIS STRONG POLITICAL SIGHS TO THE HOSPITAL LOBBY AND THAT KIND OF, YOU KNOW, PUTS A BAD ODOR ON THINGS.

I THINK THE VACCINE HAS BEEN EFFECTIVELY ADMINISTERED, BUT IT MAY WELL HAVE BEEN DONE BETTER HAD HE WORKED MUCH MORE CLOSELY WITH THE STATE HEALTH DEPARTMENT TO BEGIN WITH.

>> NINA... >> I WAS GOING TO ASK YOU, HOW BIG A POLITICAL ISSUE IS THIS FOR THE GOVERNOR?

>> I DON'T SEE HOW IT IS A POLITICAL ISSUE AT ALL.

ONE THING WE HAVEN'T NOTICED IS THAT THE WHOLE REASON WE KNOW ABOUT THIS UNDERCOUNT IN THE FIRST PLACE IS BECAUSE THE A.G.

UNDERTOOK THE INVESTIGATION AT THE GOVERNOR'S DIRECTION F. WE HAD A GOVERNOR WHO WAS BEING LAX, WHO WAS NOT WATCHING OVER THE INTERESTS OF THE RESIDENTS, HE CERTAINLY WOULDN'T HAVE TOLD THE A.G. TO INVESTIGATE THE PROBLEM AND TO SET UP A HOT LINE.

BUT JUST AS A LOGICAL MATTER, I HAVE A VERY DIFFICULT TIME RECONCILING THE IDEA THAT THE GOVERNOR IN MARCH AND APRIL WAS JUST SORT OF SCREAMING THAT THERE IS A HUGE PROBLEM IN NEW YORK AND SO THE IDEA THAT THIS PERSON, WHO IS SENDING AUTOPSY ALL SORTS OF FLARES WOULD BURY THE VERY EVIDENCE THAT WOULD HELP HIM TO BOLSTER HIS REPEATED CLAIMS THAT THE PROBLEM WAS SERIOUS, I DON'T SEE HOW YOU ADD THOSE THINGS UP.

AND I THINK PART OF THE REASON THAT SO MUCH OF THE MEDIA FOCUS IS ON THE GOVERNOR IS BECAUSE NO ONE HAS REALLY LOOKED VERY CLOSELY AT THE A.G. REPORT.

THE A.G. REPORT LAYS OUT, FOR EXAMPLE, THE FACT THAT NURSING HOMES-- THEY UNDERCOUNTED BY 50%.

YOU CAN'T PUT THAT ON THE GOVERNOR.

>> JAMILA, WHEN IT COMES TO NURSING HOMES, IT SEEMS TO ME ONE OF THE ISSUES IS THE LOW STAFFING, THE LOW PAYMENT OF WORKERS.

IS THAT SOMETHING THAT SOMEBODY CAN BE DOING SOMETHING ABOUT?

>> YES.

I MEAN THIS IS PART AND PARCEL OF WHAT I WAS SAYING EARLIER.

SO, YOU KNOW, THE NURSING HOMES SHOULDN'T BE LEFT TO THEIR OWN DEVICES ENTIRELY WHEN IT COMES TO MAKING DECISIONS LIKE THIS, SO, FOR EXAMPLE, A LOT OF NURSING HOME WORKERS ACTUALLY HAVE TO WORK AT MULTIPLE FACILITIES BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT PAID ENOUGH AT ONE FACILITY TO MEET THEIR LIVING NEEDS.

AND SO THAT CONTRIBUTED TO A LOT OF THE SPREAD ACROSS AND BETWEEN NURSING HOMES BECAUSE ONE NURSING HOME STAFF MEMBER WOULD BE WORKING AT THREE OR FOUR NURSING HOMES.

AND THAT'S BECAUSE OF THE LOW PAY AND ALSO BECAUSE OF THE PRACTICE WITHIN THE NURSING HOMES.

AND I COMPLETELY AGREE THAT WE SHOULD PUT THE ONUS ON THE NURSING HOMES.

BUT I ALSO AGREE THAT POLICY MAKERS ARE THE ONES WHO OUGHT TO BE OVERSEEING AND HOLDING THEM ACCOUNTABLE IN PRACTICES LIKE HOW MUCH THEY PAY AND HOW THEY TREAT STAFF WERE A HUGE PART OF WHAT HAS CAUSED THE PROBLEMS THERE.

>> WELL, ON TOP OF THE OVERWHELMING GRIEF ABOUT THE LOSS OF LIFE FROM COVID, THE PANDEMIC CONTINUES TO HIT MANY FAMILIES AND BUSINESSES HARD ECONOMICALLY.

AND SO PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN WANTS TO GIVE THEM MONEY IN A NEW STIMULUS BILL CALLED GO BIG GO NOW.

THAT'S THE SLOGAN AT LEAST.

REPUBLICANS ARE NOT SO SURE ON THE SIZE OR ALL THAT IS TUCKED INTO THE BILL AND RICK, I'M WONDERING CAN JOE BIDEN BROKER A BIPARTISAN DEAL?

>> I DON'T BELIEVE THAT WE ARE GOING TO SEE A COMPROMISE.

I THINK THERE IS TOO LARGE A GAP BETWEEN THE $1.9 TRILLION PROPOSAL THAT BIDEN HAS PUT FORTH AND THE $618 BILLION COUNTER THAT THE GROUP OF 10 REPUBLICANS HAVE SUGGESTED.

NOW THE PRESS IS FOCUSED ON THE DIFFERENCES OF THE TWO PLANS WITH RESPECT TO THE 1400-DOLLAR STIMULUS CHECKS AND WHAT THE INCOME CUTOFF SHOULD BE.

BUT I THINK THOSE DIFFERENCES DON'T ACCOUNT FOR VERY MUCH OF THAT $1.3 BILLION GAP.

TO UNDERSTAND WHY A COMPROMISE ISN'T GOING TO COME ABOUT, I BELIEVE, YOU NEED TO LOOK AT TWO THINGS.

THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION HAS PROPOSED $350 BILLION TO COMPENSATE STATE AND LOCAL GOVERNMENTS FOR LOST TAX REVENUE.

THE REPUBLICAN PLAN HAD ZERO DOLLARS.

SECOND, THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION WANTS TO PUT AN EMPHASIS ON GETTING STUDENTS BACK INTO SCHOOLS AND HAS PROPOSED UP TO $170 BILLION TO HELP THEM REOPEN.

THE REPUBLICAN PLAN HAD ONLY $20 BILLION.

I THINK THOSE TWO ARE OUR MAJOR STUMBLING BLOCKS.

IN ADDITION, THE REPUBLICANS STATE THE ECONOMY IS GETTING BETTER ON ITS OWN AND THAT THE BIDEN PACKAGE COULD LEAD TO HIGHER BUDGET DEFICITS AND INFLATION.

BUT BUDGET DEFICITS AND INFLATION ARE NOT MAJOR ISSUES RIGHT NOW.

THE GOVERNMENT CAN BORROW AT HISTORICALLY LOW RATES.

SO IT'S GOING TO BE ABLE TO MANAGE THE ADDITIONAL DEFICIT, I THINK EASILY.

AND INFLATION HAS BEEN RUNNING BELOW THE FEDERAL RESERVE 2% TARGET FOR QUITE A PERIOD OF TIME.

SO I THINK THE MAJOR THREATS OF OVERSPENDING ARE BEING OVERSTATED BY THE REPUBLICANS.

>> CAN I JUST JUMP IN HERE AND SAY THAT I WAS ACTUALLY READING JUST BEFORE, YOU KNOW, THIS MORNING TIME FOR US HERE, EVEN THOUGH THIS WAS IN THE EVENING AND JUST BEFORE I GOT ON, I DOUBLE CHECKED BECAUSE THE SENATE HAS BEEN IN DELIBERATIONS ABOUT THIS LITERALLY ALL NIGHT LONG, AND WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE IS THAT THE SENATE HAS COME TO A VOTE AND THAT VICE PRESIDENT KAMALA HARRIS HAS BROKEN A TIE AND THAT THAT VOTE HAS BROKEN JUST BARELY IN FAVOR OF THE RESOLUTION THAT IS GOING TO MAKE IT POSSIBLE FOR THE STIMULUS BILL TO PASS.

BUT IT'S COME WITH A BURCH OF COMPROMISE-- BUNCH OF COMPROMISES AND IT'S REALLY KIND OF CRUCIAL WITH RESPECT TO WHAT RICK SAID, WHICH IS THERE WERE SOME DIFFICULT IMPASSES AND THOSE HAVE TO BE OVERCUP SO SOME OF THE COMPROMISES INCLUDED THINGS LIKE GETTING RID OF THE $15 MINIMUM WAGE PROVISION AND THEN A NUMBER OF OTHER PROVISIONS THAT REALLY DIDN'T NECESSARILY HAVE DIRECTLY TO DO WITH THE BILL, BUT WERE A MATTER OF SORT OF SLIPPING IN OTHER POLITICAL PREROGATIVES, VOTES AROUND WHETHER JERUSALEM, THE ASSEMBLY THERE SHOULD REMAIN IN PLACE AND A NUMBER OF OTHER VOTES THAT SEEM SEPARATE FROM THIS.

AND SO THERE IS A LOT PACKED INTO THIS AND WE ARE JUST FINDING OUT ABOUT IT.

BUT IT LOOKS LIKE THERE HAS BEEN SOME FORWARD MOVEMENT AS FAR AS COMING TO AN AGREEMENT ON THE STIMULUS BILL.

>> THE SENATE DID VOTE.

IT VOTED 50-50 AND VICE PRESIDENT HARRIS CAST THE TIE BREAKING VOTE.

ON THE ISSUE OF COMPROMISE, IT SEEMED PRETTY CLEAR THAT THE REPUBLICAN DOG AND PONY SHOW WAS NOT REFLECTING ANY REAL EFFORT TO ENGAGE IN REAL GIVE AND TAKE WITH THE WHO US ON THIS WITH THE WHITE HOUSE ON THIS BILL AND THEY WEREN'T GOING TO BUDGE FROM THEIR $600 COUNTERPROPOSAL.

I THINK THE REPUBLICANS HAD TO MAKE APRIL EFFORT TO MAKE IT SEEM LIKE THEY WERE INTERESTED IN CONSTRUCTIVE ENGAGEMENT BUT I THINK THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION FUNDAMENTALLY HAD THIS RIGHT IN THE SENSE THAT THE STIMULUS, THE PACKAGE NEEDED TO BE LARGE.

THAT WAS ONE OF THE LESSONS FROM 2009-2010 AND THEY COULDN'T FALL INTO THE GAME OF DELAY, WHICH HAPPENED IN 2009-2010 WHEN THE REPUBLICANS WERE ABLE TO DELAY IMPORTANT MEASURES DURING THE EARLY YEARS OF THE OBAMA PRESIDENCY.

FOR ECONOMIC REASONS AND FOR REASONS OF GETTING MORE MONEY OUT TO THE COUNTRY FAST, THESE THINGS ARE ESSENTIAL.

AND IN MARCH, THE UNEMPLOYMENT BENEFITS ALSO RUN OUT, SO THAT WAS ANOTHER PRESSING TIMELINE THAT IS PUSHING THE DEMOCRATS TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THIS BILL.

>> YEAH, BUT I THINK ALSO, AND I'M NOT DISAGREEING, BUT THERE IS ANOTHER BIG THING HERE, WHICH IS THAT REPUBLICANS ARE SORT OF OPERATING ON THE PAST, RIGHT?

SO IF YOU LOOK AT WHAT THEY DID IN DECEMBER AND THAT WAS A BIPARTISAN BILL.

THAT ADDRESSED THE COVID PROBLEM AS IT EXISTED AT THAT TIME.

BUT WHAT WE HAVE DISCOVERED SINCE THEN IS THAT THERE IS A NEW STRAIN.

THERE ARE OTHER SORTS OF IMPACTS THAT WEREN'T TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT SUCH AS DOMESTIC VIOLENCE, GREATER SUBSTANCE ABUSE AND JUST SORT OF THE WIDER SPECTRUM OF IMPACT SUCH ON CHILD CARE AND HEALTHCARE.

SO I THINK WHAT BIDEN IS DOING IS HE IS SAYING YES, WE NEED MORE MONEY FOR THE USUAL STUFF, BUT WE ALSO HAVE A WIDER RANGE OF PROBLEMS THAT HAVE TO BE ADDRESSED.

>> I WOULD JUST SAY, ALSO, THAT IF THE VOTE CAME DOWN 50-50 AND VICE PRESIDENT HARRIS HAD TO BREAK IT, THAT WHAT WE ENDED UP WAS NOT A COMPROMISE, IT WAS NOT BIPARTISAN AT ALL AND SO WHILE THE DEMOCRATS WERE WILLING TO DROP A COUPLE OF THINGS LIKE THE MINIMUM WAGE IN ORDER TO ENSURE THAT THEY GOT ALL 50 DEMOCRATS VOTING FOR THE PROPOSAL, THAT THIS WAS REALLY THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION PLAN THAT WENT FORWARD WITHOUT MUCH HELP, ANY HELP, REALLY FROM THE REPUBLICANS.

>> IT WAS, BUT THERE IS NO INDICATION, POINT OF FACT, THAT THE REPUBLICANS FUNDAMENTALLY ARE INTERESTED IN ANY CONSTRUCTIVE ENGAGEMENT.

THIS IS THE SAME GAME THEY PLAYED 10 YEARS AGO, I THINK.

AND I THINK BIDEN, THE BIDEN PEOPLE REALLY SAW THE CARDS AND SAW THE REPUBLICANS MOVING THE GOAL LINE AND WERE PREPARED TO AND THIS IS HOW THEY NEEDED TO PROCEED.

>> SPEAKING OF REPUBLICANS, LAST WEEK WE TALKED ABOUT HOW THE REPUBLICAN PARTY AT THE NATIONAL LEVEL SEEMS TO BE DIVIDED AS TO HOT PARTY REALLY IS.

SO I'M WONDERING, BOB, HOW DID US THIS CARRY DOWN TO THE STATES?

WHAT IS THE STATUS OF NEW YORK STATE REPUBLICANS?

>> WELL, WE ARE SEEING THE NATIONAL SPLIT TO SOME DEGREE PLAY ITSELF OUT HERE IN NEW YORK STATE, ALTHOUGH NOT IN THE SAME DEGREE.

CONGRESSWOMAN ELISE STEFANIK HAS BEEN A STERN HARD-LINE SUPPORTER OF DONALD TRUMP AND SHE CLEARLY UNDERSTANDS HERE CONSTITUENCY.

SHE STEPPED VERY MUCH INTO THE BREACH POLITICALLY SPEAKING AND GOT NATIONAL ATTENTION.

SO SHE IS CLEARLY STAKED THAT GROUND FOR HER.

BUT OTHER REPUBLICANS IN THE STATE, INCLUDING CENTRAL NEW YORK'S JOHN KATKO, HAVE CONSCIOUSLY NOT DONE THAT.

IN FACT, IN THE VOTE TO REMOVE CONGRESSWOMAN MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE FROM HER COMMITTEE ASSIGNMENTS THAT OCCURRED YESTERDAY, THERE WERE 11 REPUBLICANS WHO VOTED IN FAVOR OF DOING THAT ALONG WITH ALL OF THE DEMOCRATS.

AND THREE OF THOSE REPUBLICANS ARE FROM NEW YORK STATE.

AND ONE OF THEM, INDEED, WAS JOHN KATKO.

SO THEY ARE BUCKING THE REPUBLICAN TIDE AND TO ME THAT IS ONE INDICATION THAT THE SORT OF ALL TRA-- YOU WILL ULTRARIGHT TRUMP BASED KIND OF POLITICS DOESN'T HAVE A WHOLE LOT OF RESONANCE IN NEW YORK STATE IT T CONTROL OF THE NEW YORK STATE SENATE AND I THINK THE PROIS PROSPECT OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY GETTING STRONGER IN NEW YORK IS NOT A GOOD ONE, JUST BECAUSE THE STATE HAS BECOME MORE DEMOCRATIC GENERALLY IN THIS LAST 20 YEARSD WITH THE NEW REAPPORTIONMENT COMING UP, YOU WILL SEE THE DRAWING OF STRICT LINES FOR CONGRESS AND THE STATE LEGISLATURE TO FAVOR THE DEMOCRATS.

THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IS ON THE ROPES IN NEW YORK STATE.

>> MEAN THEY NINA, WHAT ABOUT THE STEFANIK-KATKO RACE?

>> I THINK THEY'RE SORT OF OPERATING FROM VERY DIFFERENT FRAMEWORKS AND I THINK BOB TOUCHED ON IT.

IN THE CASE OF STEFANIK, AS SOON AS SHE GRADUATED FROM HARVARD UNIVERSITY, SHE BECAME A PARTISAN SO PARTISANS FOLLOW PARTY POLITICS.

KATKO, ON THE OTHER HAND, MUCH OF HIS CAREER INVOLVED HIM BEING A FEDERAL PROSECUTOR WHO FOLLOWED FACTS.

BUT ALSO IF YOU LOOK AT SORT OF THE TRENDS IN THEIR RESPECTIVE STRIGHTS AND SECURITY, STEFANIK HAS WON BY MUCH LARGER MARGINS IN THE LAST KOWAL OF MARGINS THAN KATKO HAS AND THAT'S PARTLY BECAUSE OF THE GREENE PARTY CANDIDATES THAT HELPED HER TO SORT OF SPREAD HER LEAD.

KATKO HABIT SEEN THE LARGE ELECTORAL MARGINS THAT STEFANIK HAS AND SO HE HAS TO PLAY IT SAFER IN A DISTRICT THAT IS NOT SAFE.

SHE DOESN'T HAVE TO PLAY IT AS SAFE IN A DISTRICT THAT'S NOT NECESSARILY SAFE; THAT HAS CERTAINLY PROVEN TO BE SAFER FOR HER.

>> I THINK THE REPUBLICAN PARTY, BOTH NATIONALLY AND IN NEW YORK STATE IS REALLY ENGAGED IN A BATTLE OVER ITS SOUL.

I THINK A SIGN OF THIS, OF THE DEEP DIVISION AND WHAT IS AT STAKE IS THE TWO BILLBOARDS THAT WENT UP IN THE NORTH COUNTRY THIS WEEK CALLING FOR REPUBLICAN CONGRESSWOMAN STEFANIK TO RESIGN.

THE BILLBOARDS WERE PAID FOR BY THE REPUBLICAN ACCOUNTABILITY PROJECT.

CLEARLY PROMINENT LONG-TERM REPUBLICANS ARE ARE UNHAPPY WITH THE DIRECTION THE PARTY HAS GONE IN.

I'M NOT SURE PUTTING UP A BILLBOARD THAT SOUNDS LIKE IT WAS FUNDED BY THE DEMOCRATS WILL WORK, BUT IT IS CERTAINLY A SIGN THAT THEY'RE TRYING TO FIGHT BACK AND REGAIN THEIR PARTY AND THEIR BRAND.

I THINK IT IS GOING TO BE INTERESTING TO SEE WHO IS GOING TO BE THE FACE OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IN NEW YORK.

IS IT GOING TO BE STEFANIK OR IS IT GOING TO BE KATKO?

>> AND YOU KNOW, IN MANY WAYS, THIS MIRRORS WHAT THE REPUBLICAN PARTY NATIONALLY IS STRUGGLING WITH, RIGHT, WHICH IS A LARGER BATTLE OVER ITS IDENTITY AND JUST HOW FAR TO THE RIGHT, JUST HOW EXTREME IN TERMS OF CONSPIRACY THEORIES AND WHAT HAVE YOU, IS THE PARTY WILLING TO GO, AND TO ACCEPT GOING, RIGHT, FOR THE SAKE OF MAYBE VOTES OR WHAT HAVE YOU.

AND SO IT'S NOT SURPRISING THAT WE ARE SEEING THIS IN NEW YORK STATE.

BUT I DO THINK THAT THE DEMOCRATS ARE GOING TO HAVE TO THINK ABOUT THEIR ROLE IN TERMS OF HOW THEY RESPOND TO, AND EVEN HOW THEY MAKE DECISIONS THAT MIGHT STRUCTURE THE TRAJECTORY OF THE REPUBLICANS GOING FORWARD.

SO THE QUESTIONS AROUND DISTRICTING ARE ONE EXAMPLE.

I MEAN IN AN IDEAL WORLD, DISTRICTING SHOULD NOT BE SO HYPER POLITICIZED BUT OBVIOUSLY IT'S A DEEPLY POLITICAL EXERCISE.

ONE WAY FOR THE DEMOCRATS TO APPROACH IT IS TO SAY LET'S SEE HOW WE CAN CARVE THINGS UP TO MAXIMIZE OUR VOTES.

BUT THE DEMOCRATS MIGHT ALSO THINK ABOUT STRUCTURING DISTRICTS SUCH THAT YOU DON'T HAVE THESE DISTRICTS THAT ARE SO UNCOMPETITIVE THAT YOU CAN GET REALLY EXTREME REPRESENTATIVES WHO HAVE ALL THE WIGGLE ROOM IN THE WORLD AS FAR AS THEIR ELECTIONS AND CAN DO ANYTHING THEY WOULD LIKE, RIGHT?

>> I THINK REALLY WHAT IS INTERESTING HERE IS WE HAVE ALL HEARD THE TERM RHINO AS IN REPUBLICAN IN NAME ONLY.

THE QUESTION IS WHO ARE THE REAL RINOS.

TRUMP HAS USED THAT TERM AND SINGLED OUT LONG-TIME REPUBLICANS, GOVERNORS AND THE LIKE WHEN, IN REALITY, HE IS THE ULTIMATE RINO.

HE AND HIS SUPPORTERS HAVE HAD NO ALLEGIANCE OR LOYALTY TO THE REPUBLICAN PARE AND THEIR PRINCIPLES SO THE QUESTION, I THINK, THIS BATTLE OVER DEFINING WHO IS AND WHAT IS A GOOD REPUBLICAN.

>> WE HAVE TO LEAVE IT THERE.

WE ARE OUT OF TIME IT IS TIME FOR OUR F AND A SEGMENT.

BOB SPITZER, YOUR F TO.

>> 50 ANTI-VACCINATION PROTESTORS WHO MANAGED TO SNARL TRAFFIC AT A VACCINATION SITE IN LOS ANGELES FOR AN HOUR THIS PAST WEEK.

IT IS BAD ENOUGH THAT THESE PEOPLE REJECT VACCINATION ITSELF.

BUT TO KEEP THOUSANDS OF OTHERS FROM GETTING THEIR VACCINES?

THIS IS PRETTY HIGH ON THE STUPID METER THIS WEEK.

>> RICK, YOUR F. >> MY F GOES TO EVERYONE INVOLVED IN THE GAME STOP STOCK DEBACLE.

THIS MESS UNDERMINES GENERAL CONFIDENCE IN THE STOCK MARKETS AND COULD LEAD AVERAGE INVESTORS TO NOT INVEST IN WELL DIVERSIFIED COMPANY COST MUTUAL FUNDS WHICH ARE AN EFFECTIVE AND APPROPRIATE INVESTMENT FOR BUILDING WEALTH.

>> NINA.

>> I'M GIVING AN F TO PROGRESSIVE DEMOCRATS PLAN TO CANCEL $50,000 OF STUDENT LOAN DEBTS OR, THE WAY I DESCRIBE IT, IS TO MAKE THE 75% OF AMERICANS WHO CANNOT AFFORD A COLLEGE EDUCATION, PAY FOR THE 25% THAT CHOSE TO FINANCE IT WITH LOANS.

>> AND JAMILA, YOUR F. >> MY F GOES TO THE PUNXSUTAWNEY PHIL GROUND HOG WHO SAW HIS SHADOW SO WE HAVE ANOTHER SIX WEEKS OF WINTERER.

>> A LITTLE LEVITY IS GOOD.

BOB, YOUR A.

>> PICKING ON POOR PUNXSUTAWNEY PHIL.

MY A IS TO HAL HOLBROOK.

HE APPEARED IN MANY FILMS, ALL THE PRESIDENT'S MEN, WALL STREET, HE WAS A DISTINGUISHED ACTOR.

HE WAS 95.

>> AND RICK.

>> MY A GOES TO JOHN KATKO AS BOB MENTIONED, REPUBLICAN CONGRESSMAN OF THE 24th DISTRICT WHO IS ONE OF THE 11 REPUBLICANS THAT VOTED TO STRIP MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE OF HER CONGRESSIONAL COMMITTEE POST.

>> NINA, YOUR A?

>> U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE DROPPED THE LAWSUIT THAT THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION BROUGHT AGAINST YALE UNIVERSITY BECAUSE OF ITS AFFIRMATIVE ACTION ADMISSIONS POLICY.

THAT IS ONE LAWSUIT DOWN AND TWO TO GO BECAUSE THERE ARE TWO REMAINING, ONE AGAINST HARVARD AND ONE AGAINST UNIVERSITY OF NORTH CAROLINA AT CHAPEL HILL.

BUT I'M HOPEFUL.

>> AND JAMILA.

>> MY A GOES TO ALL FIVE VACCINES.

IT'S EASY TO MISS THIS IN THE BARRAGE OF BAD NEWS, BUT OF THE ROUGHLY 75,000 PEOPLE WHO HAVE RECEIVED THE VACCINESS ACROSS THE FIVE TRIALS, NOT A SINGLE PERSON HAS DIED OF COVID AND ONLY A FEW HAVE BEEN HOSPITAL SIZED.

THEY REALLY ARE A SHINING EXAMPLE OF AN ACHIEVEMENT THAT IS LITERALLY SAVING THE WORLD.

>> IT LITERALLY IS SAVING THE WORLD, JAMILA.

THANKS FOR REMINDING US OF THAT DURING THESE PANDEMIC TIMES.

THERE IS HOPE OUT THERE.

AND MANY OF YOU, I HOPE, HAVE APPOINTMENTS AND KEEP TRYING.

BE PATIENT IF YOU DON'T.

WE WILL ALL GET THEM.

WELL, THANK YOU FOR WATCHING TONIGHT WE WOULD LIKE TO HEAR FROM YOU ABOUT THESE TOPICS OR OTHERS.

YOU CAN WRITE TO US AT THE ADDRESSES ON THE SCREEN.

AND IF YOU MISS THE SHOW ANY FRIDAY NIGHT, IT REPEATS SATURDAY AFTERNOONS AT 5:30 OR YOU CAN FIND THE SHOW ONLINE ANY TIME AT WCNY.ORG.

THANKS FOR WATCHING AND GOOD NIGHT.

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