[ THEME MUSIC ] ♪♪ >> ON THIS WEEK'S EDITION OF "NEW YORK NOW," THE LATEST ON CUOMO'S HANDLING OF NURSING HOMES DURING COVID-19.

JON CAMPBELL FROM THE "USA TODAY" NETWORK JOINS ME IN STUDIO.

AND SOME SAY ALL THE PANDEMIC DID WAS EXPOSE SYSTEMIC ISSUES THAT ALREADY EXISTED AT NURSING HOMES.

WE'LL DISCUSS.

THEN NEGOTIATIONS ON THE STATE BUDGET ARE NOW IN FULL SWING AND MARIJUANA LEGALIZATION REMAINS A TOP ISSUE.

WE'LL LOOK AT NEW RESEARCH ON THE ECONOMICS OF THE DRUG.

PLUS LIBRARIES WHO LEARNED TO ADAPT TO COVID-19 OVER THE LAST YEAR, BUT NOW THEY'RE LOOKING AT FUNDING CUTS FROM THE STATE.

WE'LL EXPLAIN.

I'M DAN CLARK, AND THIS IS "NEW YORK NOW."

[ THEME MUSIC ] WELCOME TO THIS WEEK'S EDITION OF "NEW YORK NOW."

I'M DAN CLARK.

THE CONTROVERSY OVER THE CUOMO'S ADMINISTRATION HANDLING OF NURSING HOMES DURING THE PANDEMIC SNOWBALLED THIS WEEK.

THINGS ARE NOT LOOKING GOOD.

LET'S GET RIGHT INTO IT WITH JON CAMPBELL FROM THE USA TODAY NETWORK.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> THINGS HAVE ESCALATED.

WE JUST FOUND OUT ON WEDNESDAY THAT FEDERAL PROSECUTORS IN BROOKLYN ARE NOW LOOKING AT THE GOVERNOR AND HIS HANDLING OF NURSING HOMES.

WHAT DO WE KNOW ABOUT THAT?

>> WE LEARNED ABOUT THAT FROM THE ALBANY TIMES UNION WHICH REPORTED THAT THE U.S. ATTORNEY'S OFFICE IN BROOKLYN AND THE FBI IN BROOKLYN IS INVOLVED IN SOME SORT OF INVESTIGATION INTO THE GOVERNOR'S CORONAVIRUS TASK FORCE, WHICH GENERALLY IS SENIOR STAFF MEMBERS AND THERE WERE SOME FOLKS FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AS WELL.

AND WE DON'T KNOW A WHOLE LOT MORE THAN THAT OTHER THAN IT IS TOUCHING, IN PART AT LEAST, ON THE NURSING HOME SITUATION AND WE'VE SEEN THAT REALLY BLOW UP IN THE LAST FEW WEEKS AFTER REALLY IT HAD BEEN SIMMERING FOR MONTHS AND MONTHS AND MONTHS WHERE THE CUOMO ADMINISTRATION HAD NOT BEEN REVEALING THE NUMBER OF RESIDENTS WHO HAD CONTRACTED COVID-19 AND DIED IN HOSPITALS RATHER THAN IN THE HOMES, THEMSELVES.

WE FINALLY GOT THAT NUMBER AFTER THE ATTORNEY GENERAL PUT OUT A REPORT AND NOW WE'VE SEEN THIS REALLY BLOW UP WITH A COMMENT IN A PRIVATE SESSION BY MELISSA DEROSA, THE GOVERNOR'S TOP AIDE, WHO SUGGESTED THAT THEY HELD BACK RELEASING THAT NUMBER AND OTHER DATA AFTER GETTING A DOJ LETTER BACK IN SEPTEMBER OR LATE AUGUST, I SHOULD SAY.

>> THIS HAS ALL RESULTED IN SOME VERY TENSE MOMENTS BETWEEN THE GOVERNOR AND THE LEGISLATURE.

I UNDERSTAND THAT DEMOCRATS IN THE STATE SENATE AT LEAST ARE GOING TO MOVE NEXT WEEK TO LIMIT THE GOVERNOR'S EMERGENCY POWERS AS A RESULT OF ALL THIS.

WHAT DO WE KNOW ABOUT THAT?

WHAT DOES IT LOOK LIKE?

DO WE KNOW IF THE ASSEMBLY IS ON BOARD?

>> SINCE MARCH, THE GOVERNOR HAS HAD THESE EXTRAORDINARY POWERS DURING THE STATE OF EMERGENCY WHERE HE'S BEEN ALLOWED TO UNILATERALLY IMPOSE RESTRICTIONS, CURFEWS FOR RESTAURANTS AND BARS, NON-ESSENTIAL BUSINESS SHUTDOWNS, THOSE TYPES OF THINGS BECAUSE THE LEGISLATURE GAVE HIM THAT POWER IN THE VERY EARLY DAYS OF THE PANDEMIC.

NOW, IN PART-- IN LARGE PART BECAUSE OF THIS NURSING HOME FIASCO, LEGISLATURE'S PUSHING BACK AND SUGGESTING THAT THEY WANT TO RESCIND OR CURTAIL HIS POWERS.

SO THE PROPOSAL THAT WE'RE HEARING ABOUT IN THE SENATE, THAT THE SENATE'S APPARENTLY GOING TO VOTE ON AS EARLY AS NEXT WEEK WOULD CREATE A PANEL OF LAWMAKERS THAT WOULD HAVE TO APPROVE THESE RESTRICTIONS BEFORE THEY TAKE EFFECT.

ANYTHING THE GOVERNOR-- ANY DIRECTIVE THE GOVERNOR PUTS OUT UNDER THESE POWERS WOULD NEED APPROVAL BY THIS.

I-- WE HAVEN'T HEARD THE GOVERNOR SPEAK ABOUT THIS YET, BUT WE CAN BE SURE THAT HE DOESN'T LIKE IT.

[LAUGHTER] HE HAS SPOKEN REPEATEDLY ABOUT THE NEED TO ACT FAST AND UNILATERALLY TO PUT INTO PLACE THESE RESTRICTIONS AND TAKE THEM AWAY.

>> RIGHT, AND UNDER HIS EMERGENCY POWERS RIGHT NOW, THERE IS A PROVISION WHERE THE LEGISLATURE CAN REPEAL ANY OF HIS EXECUTIVE ORDERS OR DIRECTIVES WITHIN TEN DAYS OF THAT HAPPENING.

SO ALL THIS JUST FEELS KIND OF VERY POLITICAL TO ME.

WHY DON'T THEY JUST USE THAT OPTION INSTEAD?

>> I THINK THERE'S DEFINITELY A SENSE AMONG LAWMAKERS THAT THEY WANT TO SEND A MESSAGE, THAT THEY ARE NOT PLEASED.

REPUBLICANS HAVE BEEN BEATING THIS DRUM FOR MONTHS AND MONTHS AND MONTHS AND NOW YOU'VE REALLY SEEN THE DEMOCRATS COME ONBOARD SINCE THE RELEASE OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S REPORT, SINCE MELISSA DEROSA'S COMMENTS.

>> YEAH.

THERE'S A LOT GOING ON IN THIS SITUATION AND I WISH WE COULD JUST TALK ABOUT ALL OF IT, BUT WE DO HAVE FULL COVERAGE OVER ON OUR WEBSITE AT NYNOW.ORG AND YOU CAN GO THERE AT ANY TIME AND READ ALL OF IT AND JON FROM USA TODAY NETWORK HAS FANTASTIC COVERAGE LITERALLY ALL THE TIME ABOUT NURSING HOMES AS ONE OF THE REPORTERS DURING THE SPRING AND WHENEVER THEY ENDED IN JUNE.

JON, WE'LL BE WATCHING IT.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR COMING OUT HERE.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME, DAN.

>> WE'RE GOING TO MOVE ON FROM NURSING HOMES FOR THE WEEK IN JUST A MINUTE BUT FIRST, SOME SAY THIS WHOLE SITUATION HAS EXPOSED PROBLEMS THAT ALREADY EXISTED AT NURSING HOMES BEFORE THE PANDEMIC.

IN A REPORT LAST MONTH, THE STATE AG'S OFFICE SAID, SOME NURSING HOMES ARE UNDERSTAFFED AND DON'T ALWAYS DO ENOUGH TO PREVENT THE SPREAD OF DISEASE.

AND THAT HAS SOME CALLING FOR CHANGES IN NURSING HOMES AND A CLOSER LOOK AT ALTERNATIVES.

DENISE FIGUEROA IS THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE INDEPENDENT LIVING CENTER OF THE HUDSON VALLEY.

[ THEME MUSIC ] DENISE, THANKS SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> SO YOU'RE PART OF A GROUP THAT TRIES TO PROMOTE INDEPENDENCE FROM NURSING HOMES.

IN OTHER WORDS, YOU'RE SAYING IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE THE DEFAULT OPTION FOR PEOPLE TO LIVE IN A NURSING HOME WHEN THEY'RE AGING AND PART OF THAT, YOUR ARGUMENT IS, THAT THE CONDITIONS AT NURSING HOMES AREN'T ALWAYS THE SAFEST FOR THEIR RESIDENTS.

TELL ME WHAT YOU MEAN.

>> YES.

INDEPENDENT LIVING CENTERS HAVE PROMOTED THE IDEA OF LIVING IN THE COMMUNITY EVER SINCE WE STARTED 40 YEARS AGO.

AND THE TRUTH IS THAT NURSING HOME SETTINGS, INSTITUTIONAL SETTINGS, GROUP HOME SETTINGS, VERY OFTEN WHEN YOU'VE GOT LARGE GROUPS OF PEOPLE TOGETHER, THEY'RE NOT AS SAFE BECAUSE DISEASE DOES TRANSMIT MORE EASILY.

YOU DON'T ALWAYS HAVE THE ATTENTION THAT PEOPLE ASSUME YOU HAVE IN A NURSING HOME.

YOU KNOW, THE STAFFING IS NEVER ADEQUATE TO BE ABLE TO MEET THE NEEDS OF THAT MANY PEOPLE AND MOST OF THEM ARE FOR-PROFIT ORGANIZATIONS THAT ARE LOOKING TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY MAKE MONEY AT THE END AND THEREFORE, DON'T ALWAYS INVEST IN THE STAFF AND THE PERSONNEL THAT IT TAKES TO KEEP PEOPLE SAFE.

>> SO WE NOW KNOW THAT MORE THAN 15,000 PEOPLE IN ADULT CARE FACILITIES DIED FROM COVID-19 IN THE PAST YEAR, AND THERE'S A LOT OF DISAGREEMENT OVER WHY THAT HAPPENED.

SO I'M WONDERING FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE, DO YOU THINK IT WAS MORE THE FAULT OF THE STATE AND ITS DECISIONS, OR DO YOU THINK THAT THIS IS PART OF A BROADER PATTERN OF NURSING HOMES MAYBE NOT BEING PREPARED FOR SOME SORT OF INFECTIOUS DISEASE LIKE THIS?

>> YEAH.

THEY CERTAINLY WEREN'T PREPARED FOR IT.

YOU KNOW, I THINK THERE'S GOING TO BE BLAME ALL AROUND IN TERMS OF WHETHER OR NOT PUTTING PEOPLE BACK INTO NEIGHBORHOODS ONCE THEY WERE TESTED CREATED MORE OF A SPREAD.

THAT'S UP TO OTHER PEOPLE TO DECIDE.

THE TRUTH OF THE MATTER IS WHAT COVID-19 DID IS SHED LIGHT ON AN ALREADY DANGEROUS SITUATION.

PEOPLE LIVE A SHORTER LIFE SPAN WHEN THEY LIVE IN A NURSING HOME; THAT IS JUST THE BOTTOM LINE AND THE STATISTICS CAN PROVE THAT.

WE LIVE A LONGER, HAPPIER LIFE IN THE COMMUNITY AND WE'RE MUCH SAFER IN THE COMMUNITY WHEN WE CAN BRING PEOPLE INTO OUR OWN HOME TO TAKE CARE OF US AS LONG AS WE ARE AWARE OF THE SERVICES THAT ARE OUT THERE.

AND THAT'S SO MUCH OF WHAT THE INDEPENDENT LIVING CENTERS HAVE BEEN DOING AND FOCUSING ON FOR MANY YEARS.

>> SO TALK TO ME ABOUT INDEPENDENT LIVING CENTERS.

BECAUSE I FEEL LIKE PEOPLE WATCHING MAY NOT KNOW THAT THERE'S A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A NURSING HOME AND INDEPENDENT LIVING CENTER.

IT'S ACTUALLY QUITE A BIG DIFFERENCE.

>> OKAY.

YES.

INDEPENDENT LIVING CENTERS ARE ORGANIZATIONS THAT ARE RUN BY AND FOR PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES.

SO THE MAJORITY OF OUR BOARD AND STAFF ARE PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES, AND WHAT WE DO IS TRY TO LINK PEOPLE UP WITH THE COMMUNITY SERVICES THAT ARE AVAILABLE.

WHETHER IT'S ACCESSIBLE HOUSING, INFORMATION ON BENEFITS, BEING ABLE TO HELP PEOPLE APPLY FOR BENEFITS, LINK PEOPLE UP WITH SERVICES THAT THEY NEED IN ORDER TO LIVE INDEPENDENTLY IN THE COMMUNITY.

INDEPENDENT LIVING CENTERS ARE ABOUT MAKING YOUR OWN CHOICES, SELF-DETERMINATION, AND NOT ALLOWING OTHER PEOPLE AND OTHER SYSTEMS TO CONTROL YOUR LIFE.

>> CAN I ASK WHY NOT JUST MAKE NURSING HOMES SAFER?

WHY NOT JUST IMPROVE THE CONDITIONS AT NURSING HOMES?

MAYBE CREATE SOME SAFER STAFFING LEVELS.

WHAT'S THE ADVANTAGE OF CHOOSING AN INDEPENDENT LIVING CENTER OVER A NURSING HOME?

>> WELL, THERE MAY BE SOME PEOPLE WHO NEED A NURSING HOME AND YES, THE CONDITIONS NEED TO IMPROVE.

BUT I DON'T THINK THE ANSWER TO THIS IS TO GROW A BETTER, BIGGER NURSING HOME TO ACCOMMODATE PEOPLE.

THE TRUTH IS THAT WE ALL HAVE SOMETHING TO OFFER OUR COMMUNITY AND BY BEING A PART OF OUR COMMUNITY, PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES AND SENIOR CITIZENS HAVE A LOT TO OFFER AND CAN CONTINUE TO BE THAT INTEGRATED PART OF THAT COMMUNITY, AND WHEN YOU END UP IN NURSING FACILITIES OR GROUP HOME SITUATIONS, YOU MAY NOT NECESSARILY BE ABLE TO PARTICIPATE OR BE A FULL PART OF THAT FABRIC OF THE COMMUNITY.

>> SO WE KNOW FROM THE STATE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S REPORT THAT SOME NURSING HOMES ARE UNDERSTAFFED.

THE CONDITIONS ARE NOT SO GREAT ALL THE TIME AND ON THE FLIP SIDE OF THIS, AS YOU AND I WERE SAYING, THERE'S ALSO THIS INCENTIVE FOR A FOR-PROFIT NURSING HOMES TO MAKE MONEY.

SO THEY MAY CUT SERVICES FOR PEOPLE TO MAKE EXTRA MONEY.

I'M WONDERING FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE, DO YOU THINK THAT'S ON THE NURSING HOMES TO FIX, OR DO YOU THINK IT'S MORE ON THE STATE?

>> I THINK THE STATE GOVERNMENT CERTAINLY NEEDS TO BE MONITORING WHAT'S GOING ON IN THOSE FACILITIES.

THAT IS THEIR ROLE TO DO.

I THINK THAT THE FACT THAT THERE'S A FOR-PROFIT FACTOR INVOLVED HERE REALLY IS A DISINCENTIVE TO PROVIDING THE BEST CARE AND IT MAKES A SITUATION VERY DANGEROUS.

SO THERE'S CERTAINLY A ROLE FOR BOTH TO PLAY AND YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT TAKING THE FOR-PROFIT MODEL OUT OF IT WOULD PROBABLY BE A FIRST STEP, FRANKLY.

>> ALL RIGHT.

WE WILL BE TAKING A LOOK AT THEM.

I THINK IT'S A REALLY INTERESTING IDEA.

DENISE FIGUEROA FROM THE INDEPENDENT LIVING CENTER OF THE HUDSON VALLEY, THANKS SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE.

>> THANKS SO MUCH.

HAVE A GOOD DAY.

[ THEME MUSIC ] >> AND WE SHOULD POINT OUT THAT IT'S BEEN 11 YEARS SINCE THE STATE RAISED FUNDING FOR INDEPENDENT LIVING CENTERS.

MOVING ON NOW, GOVERNOR CUOMO AMENDED HIS PROPOSAL TO LEGALIZE MARIJUANA THIS WEEK.

CUOMO NOW WANTS TO ALLOW DELIVERY FOR MARIJUANA PRODUCTS WHICH LOCALITIES COULD OPT OUT OF, AND HE'S ALSO WANTS TO INTRODUCE CRIMINAL PROPERTIES FOR PEOPLE WHO SELL THE DRUG ILLEGALLY.

THERE'S THE STILL QUESTION OF HOW TO GENERATE REVENUE FROM CAN BUSINESS REGISTRY AND THE IMPACT OF LEGALIZATION COULD ACTUALLY BE QUITE LARGE.

I SPOKE WITH THE AUTHOR OF THAT REPORT, JAMES PARROT, FROM THE CENTER OF NEW YORK CITY AFFAIRS, AT THE NEWS SCHOOL.

[ THEME MUSIC ] JAMES, THANKS SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE.

>> IT'S A PLEASURE, DAN.

THANKS.

>> OF COURSE.

SO YOU HAVE A NEW REPORT OUT TALKING ABOUT THE ECONOMIC IMPACT OF LEGALIZING MARIJUANA FOR RECREATIONAL USE IN NEW YORK.

THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF SPECULATION ABOUT THAT AND WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE ECONOMIC IMPACT, I THINK IT'S FAIR SAY THAT FOR THE MOST PART, WE FOCUS ON TWO THINGS, TAX REVENUE AND THE JOBS THAT ARE CREATED AND YOU LOOKED AT BOTH.

LET'S START WITH THE TAX REVENUE FIRST.

SO WHAT DID YOUR REPORT FIND IN TERMS OF WHEN MARIJUANA IS UP AND RUNNING, EVERYTHING IS ALL SET IN NEW YORK FOR LEGALIZATION AND WE'RE SELLING FULL SUPPLY AND THINGS LIKE THAT?

HOW MUCH TAX REVENUE ARE YOU ESTIMATING THAT COULD BE AGAIN GENERATED FOR THE STATE?

>> YEAH.

SO WE HAD TO START WITH TRYING TO ESTIMATE WHAT THE SIZE OF THE MARIJUANA MARKET IS IN NEW YORK.

IT'S GOING TO BE, YOU KNOW, FOUR TO FIVE YEARS BEFORE THERE'S ANY SORT OF MEANINGFUL REVENUE, BUT THAT REVENUE, YOU KNOW, IS NOT INSIGNIFICANT FOR NEW YORK AND SO AFTER-- AFTER FIVE YEARS, IN EARN ITS OF THE IMPACT ON STATE REVENUES, IT COULD BE 700, $800 MILLION A YEAR.

THERE WOULD ALSO BE SOME LOCAL REVENUES AS PART OF THAT.

THE GOVERNOR'S PROPOSAL, FOR EXAMPLE, WOULD SUBJECT MARIJUANA SALES TO THE SALES TAX.

LOCAL GOVERNMENTS WOULD GET A SHARE OF THAT.

BUT LEGISLATURE'S PROPOSAL HAS A PORTION OF THE EXCISE TAX THAT WOULD GO TO LOCAL GOVERNMENTS AND SAME THING THERE.

AND IN ADDITION TO THE TAXES RELATED TO THE SALES OF MARIJUANA, THERE WOULD BE TAXES GENERATED IN THE ECONOMY IN THE FORM OF PROPERTY TAXES, INCOME TAXES, AND ALSO SOME SALES TAXES RELATED TO THE ECONOMIC ACTIVITY OF GROWING AND SELLING LEGAL MARIJUANA IN NEW YORK.

>> CAN I ASK, THE STATE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH ESTIMATED THAT LEGALIZING MARIJUANA MIGHT GENERATE UP TO 300 MILLION, WHICH IS OBVIOUSLY LESS THAN HALF OF WHAT YOU ARE ESTIMATING.

DO YOU KNOW WHAT THE DIFFERENCES ARE THERE BETWEEN THEIR RESEARCH AND YOUR RESEARCH?

WHY YOU COME UP WITH SUCH A HIGHER NUMBER?

>> YEAH.

SO THEY WERE USING A LOWER TAX RATE AND THEY WERE ALSO USING A LOWER ESTIMATE OF WHAT THE-- WHAT THE SIZE OF THE LEGAL MARKET WOULD BE IN NEW YORK.

SO I USED THE MORE RECENT DATA FROM A NATIONAL SURVEY OF MARIJUANA CONSUMPTION.

THAT INCREASED WHAT THE BASELINE WAS ABOUT MARIJUANA CONSUMPTION.

>> SO WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THAT 700 TO $800 MILLION REVENUE NUMBER, IS THAT PROPORTIONAL TO WHAT WE'VE SEEN IN OTHER STATES THAT HAVE LEGALIZED?

IN OTHER WORDS, IS IT COLORADO, OBVIOUSLY, WOULDN'T AGAIN THAT RATE MUCH BECAUSE THEY HAVE A LOWER POPULATION.

FOR OUR POPULATION, IS IT PROPORTIONAL TO WHAT WE SEE IN OTHER STATES?

>> SO IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT IN TERMS OF THE REVENUE PER MARIJUANA USER, SO THAT, IN A SENSE, ADJUSTED FOR THE POPULATION.

ALTHOUGH MARIJUANA USE VARIES BY STATE, BUT IT'S REALLY-- YOU KNOW, I TRY TO MAKE THE ESTIMATES CONSERVATIVE ON THIS SO IT'S IN LINE WITH WHAT THE CONSUMPTION PER USER WOULD BE IN LARGE INDUSTRIAL STATES LIKE CALIFORNIA, MICHIGAN AND ILLINOIS.

>> IN TERMS OF THE TAX RATES THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT FROM THE GOVERNOR'S PROPOSAL TO THE LEGISLATURE'S PROPOSAL, I KNOW THEY'RE SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT, BUT ARE OUR TAX RATES KIND OF SIMILAR TO WHAT WE SEE IN NEIGHBORING STATES, LIKE VERMONT AND MASSACHUSETTS?

JUST BECAUSE I KNOW THERE'S A WORRY THAT PEOPLE WILL CONTINUE TO GO ACROSS THE BORDER IF WE LEGALIZE HERE AND IT'S TOO EXPENSIVE, OR THAT PEOPLE WILL GO TO THE ELICIT MARKET?

>> YEAH.

THAT IS A REAL CONCERN, SO THE PROPOSED TAX RATES, BOTH IN THE LEGISLATURE'S BILL AND THE GOVERNOR'S BILL, ARE A LITTLE BIT HIGHER THAN MASSACHUSETTS AT THIS POINT.

MASSACHUSETTS IS THE ONLY NEIGHBORING STATE THAT ALREADY HAS LEGAL SALES.

SO IT IS SOMETHING THAT LAWMAKERS WILL HAVE TO PAY CLOSE ATTENTION TO MAKE SURE THAT OUR TAX RATE IS NOT UNCOMPETITIVE AND WE LOSE SALES TO OTHER STATES OR AS YOU SUGGESTED TO THE CON-- CONTINUE TO LOSE SALES TO THE ELICIT MARKET.

>> LET'S TALK ABOUT THE OTHER SIDE, THE JOB SIDE OF THIS.

IN YOUR REPORT, YOU LOOK AT JOBS GENERATED BY LEGALIZATION OF MARIJUANA.

WHAT ARE WE LOOKING AT THE IN TERMS OF NUMBERS?

WHAT KINDS OF JOBS ARE THESE?

ARE THEY LIKE RETAIL JOBS, AND I IMAGINE IT'S A COMBINATION OF A LOT OF DIFFERENT JOBS?

>> YEAH.

SO MOST OF THE JOBS WOULD BE ON THE RETAIL SIDE.

ALTHOUGH THERE WOULD BE A BROAD RANGE OF JOBS.

AND THE NUMBERS ARE ON THE ORDER OF IN THE FIRST FULL YEAR WHEN LEGAL SALES ARE PERMITTED, 10 TO 12,000 JOBS AND AFTER FIVE YEARS, 50 TO 60,000 JOBS IN NEW YORK STATE RELATED TO THAT.

>> ALL RIGHT.

REALLY INTERESTING REPORT.

REALLY INTERESTING RESEARCH.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR SHIRRING SHARING IT WITH US.

JAMES PARROT FROM THE CENTER OF NEW YORK CITY AFFAIRS AT THE NEWS SCHOOL.

THANK YOU SO IN.

>> THANK YOU, DAN.

[ THEME MUSIC ] >> WE'RE EXPECTING A FINAL DEAL ON MARIJUANA LEGALIZATION SOMETIME NEXT MONTH AS PART OF THE STATE BUDGET AND JUST A REMINDER, THE STATE IS FACING A $15 BILLION BUDGET DEFICIT, WHICH IS AFFECTING EVERY AREA OF STATE SPENDING.

LIBRARIES, FOR EXAMPLE, ARE LOOKING AT A CUT IN FUNDING AND THAT COULD IMPACT SERVICES THAT PEOPLE RELY ON AT LIBRARIES AND MUCH-NEEDED INFRASTRUCTURE COSTS.

I SPOKE THIS WEEK WITH JEREMY JONES, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE NEW YORK LIBRARY ASSOCIATION AND CLAUDIA DEPOSIT, THE GROUP'S CURRENT PRESIDENT WHO RUNS THE (INAUDIBLE) PUBLIC LIBRARY IN ROCKLAND COUNTY.

CLAUDIA AND JEREMY, THANKS SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE.

>> PLEASURE TO BE WITH YOU.

>> THANK YOU.

>> SO I WANT TO START WITH THE BASICS ABOUT FUNDING FOR LIBRARIES.

THE CONVERSATION IN NEW YORK RIGHT NOW IS ALL ABOUT BUDGET CUTS ACROSS THE BOARD AND OBVIOUSLY, PUBLIC FUNDING GOES LIBRARIES, BUT JEREMY, I WANT TO START WITH YOU.

CAN YOU LAY OUT FOR OUR VIEWERS HOW LIBRARIES ARE ACTUALLY FUNDED?

I REMEMBER IN MY HOMETOWN IT WAS ABOUT THE MUNICIPALITY THAT FUNDED IT.

I WONDER IF STATE FUNDING PLAYS A ROLE, HOW WE GET THERE.

>> YEAH.

THE STATE DOES ABSOLUTELY PLAY A ROLE.

THE PUBLIC LIBRARIES DOWN THE STREET FROM ALL OF YOUR VIEWERS ARE PRIMARILY FUNDED LOCALLY, MUCH LIKE SCHOOL DISTRICTS ARE.

STATE DOLLARS MAKE UP LESS THAN 10% OF YOUR AVERAGE PUBLIC LIBRARY'S BUDGET.

BUT THERE'S JUST SHY OF $100 MILLION THAT THE STATE INVESTS EACH YEAR AND ACCORDING TO EDUCATION LAW, THE AMOUNT THAT SHOULD BE FUNDED IS ABOUT $102.6 MILLION.

WE HAVEN'T BEEN THERE SINCE ABOUT 2007.

THIS YEAR, THE EXECUTIVE BUDGET, THE GOVERNOR HAS PROPOSED $87 MILLION, WHICH SIMPLE MATH, THAT'S HOPEFULLY SHY.

IT'S ACTUALLY 7.5% BELOW LAST YEAR'S EXECUTIVE BUDGET.

SO WE'RE OBVIOUSLY ADVOCATING FOR AN INCREASE IN THAT AND MOVING IT BACK TO SOMETHING A LITTLE BIT MORE REASONABLE.

IF YOU JUST APPLY INFLATION OVER LIBRARY AID FROM THE AMOUNT OF INVESTMENT THAT WAS BEING MADE BY THE STATE 20 YEARS AGO, IT WOULD PUT THAT NUMBER ABOVE 135 MILLION, SO NEW YORK LIBRARY ASSOCIATION IS ADVOCATING FOR THE STATE INVESTMENT TO COME IN THIS YEAR AT ABOUT 123.1 MILLION.

THE OTHER BIG CHUNK COMES DOWN IN CONSTRUCTION AID.

THE STATE HAS A BOND-FUNDED CONSTRUCTION AID PROGRAM THAT INVESTS AND PROVIDES MATCHING GRANT PROGRAM FOR LOCALITIES THAT WANT TO CONSTRUCT NEW LIBRARIES OR DO RENOVATIONS, MAKE UPGRADES TO HVAC, ALL THOSE NUTS AND BOLTS PIECES, AND WAS FUNDED TWO YEARS AGO AT $ 34 MILLION AND THE GOVERNOR ROLLED THAT BACK TO 14 MILLION.

$14 MILLION REPRESENTS LESS THAN 1% OF THE ESTIMATED NEED IN NEW YORK STATE, WHICH IS OVER $1.5 BILLION IN DEFERRED MAINTENANCE AND CONSTRUCTION REQUIREMENTS.

THE NEW YORK LIBRARY ASSOCIATION IS ADVOCATING FOR AN INVESTMENT THIS YEAR OF $45 MILLION, WHICH IN THE FACE OF NEED IS ALSO RELATIVELY MODEST.

I'LL STOP THERE.

>> SO CLAUDIA, PAINT A PICTURE FOR ME WHO MAY NOT UNDERSTAND EVERYTHING THAT LIBRARIES DO.

IF THE BUDGET WERE TO PASS WITH THE GOVERNOR'S PROPOSAL RIGHT NOW WITH THE 82 MILLION AND 14 MILLION RESPECTIVELY, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN FOR LIBRARIES?

WILL YOU HAVE TO CUT SERVICES?

WHAT WILL OUR LIBRARIES LOOK LIKE IF THAT HAPPENS?

>> WELL, AS JEREMY MENTIONED, THAT FUNDING SPECIFICALLY GOES TO THE SYSTEMS AND WHAT HAPPENS IS WHEN THERE'S A SHORTFALL AT THE SYSTEM, THEY SAY TO THE MEMBER LIBRARIES, WE HAVE TO-- YOU KNOW, IF YOU WANT THE SAME LEVEL OF SERVICE, WE NEED TO BE ASKING YOU TO FUND US FOR THOSE THINGS.

AND THE CONSTRUCTION GRANT IS DIRECTLY, YOU KNOW, THAT'S A DIRECTIVE IMPACT ON US.

YOU KNOW, MY LIBRARY, THE HAVERSTRAW KING'S DAUGHTERS PUBLIC LIBRARY, THE LIBRARY HAS ABSOLUTELY TAKEN THE OPPORTUNITY IN THE PAST TO APPLY FOR AND RECEIVE MANY PUBLIC CONSTRUCTION GRANTS FOR PUBLIC LIBRARIES.

WE'VE DONE SOLAR PANELS.

WE'VE UPGRADED WINDOWS, WITHOUT THE FUNDING OF THE CONSTRUCTION GRANT, THE INFRASTRUCTURE OF THE BUILDINGS, THEMSELVES, WILL, YOU KNOW, DECAY.

>> JEREMY, ON THAT NOTE, CAN I ASK YOU, THE NEED IS SO MUCH BIGGER, ACCORDING TO YOU THAN WHAT THE GOVERNOR IS PROPOSING, WHY-- WHAT IS GOING ON HERE?

LIBRARIES HAVE THIS HUGE NEED.

IS IT LIKE A HISTORICAL UNDERFUNDING IN THIS DEPARTMENT, OR DID SOMETHING HAPPEN?

WHAT'S THE DEAL?

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, WE HAD BEEN MAKING SOME PRETTY SIGNIFICANT STRIDES.

THE PROGRAM WAS FUNDED AT UNDER A MILLION DOLLARS FOR A VERY LONG TIME.

BUT INTERESTINGLY, OF THE LIBRARIES IN NEW YORK STATE, OVER 50% OF THEM ARE OVER 60 YEARS OLD AND ANOTHER 30% ARE OVER 30 YEARS OLD SO WE'VE GOT A LOT OF OLDER LIBRARY BUILDINGS, WHICH, YOU KNOW, GIVE THEM A LOT OF CHARACTER.

THEY'RE VERY BEAUTIFUL OFTEN, BUT THEY ARE OLDER AND NOT TERRIBLY ENERGY EFFICIENT AND SO THEY REQUIRE A LOT OF UPKEEP TO KEEP THEM SAFE AND EFFECTIVE AND EFFICIENT FOR THE PATRONS.

>> CLAUDIA, AS I'M THINKING ABOUT THAT, I THINK THAT PEOPLE, AS I MENTIONED EARLIER, MAY NOT JUST KNOW THE KINDS OF SERVICES THAT LIBRARIES PROVIDE.

CAN YOU GO THROUGH THEM?

PEOPLE-- YOU DON'T HAVE TO DO ALL OF THEM.

I THINK THAT PEOPLE, LIKE ME ADMITTEDLY, THINK OF LIBRARIES AS PLACES WHERE YOU GO AND TAKE A BOOK OUT AND READ IT AND PUT IT BACK.

BUT IN REALITY, AS YOU AND I BOTH KNOW, LIBRARIES PROVIDE PLENTY MORE SERVICES.

CAN YOU LAY SOME OF THEM OUT?

>> SURE.

HAPPY TO.

SO LIBRARIES IN THE LAST 20 YEARS REALLY HAVE BECOME A THIRD SPACE FOR PEOPLE.

A THIRD PLACE WHERE IT'S NOT HOME.

IT'S NOT WORK.

IT'S ANOTHER PLACE TO GO.

AND SO LIBRARIES HAVE REALLY PIVOTED IN THE COVID TIMES BECAUSE WHAT WE'VE DONE IS MOVE SO MANY OF OUR PROGRAMS OR ALL OF OUR PROGRAMMING IN THE CASE OF HALVER STRAW'S PUBLIC LIBRARY, WE MOVED OUR PROGRAMS ONLINE WHICH IS ISN'T WE HAVEN'T DONE.

WE HAVE PRETTY MUCH BEEN A FACE-TO-FACE, IN THE ROOM TOGETHER KIND OF SITUATION.

NOW YOU'LL SEE PUBLIC LIBRARIES AND SCHOOL LIBRARIES WITH YOUTUBE CHANNELS AND FACEBOOK LIVE PROGRAMMING, SO WE CAN STILL HAVE TIME TOGETHER EVEN THOUGH WE CAN'T BE IN THE SAME ROOM TOGETHER.

LIBRARIES ALSO ARE VERY MUCH A LEARNING SPACE FOR PEOPLE TO COME AND EXPERIMENT WITH DIFFERENT TECHNOLOGIES, LIKE 3D PRINTING.

THERE ARE LIBRARIES THAT HAVE LASER CUTTING MACHINES AND SEWING MACHINES WHERE PEOPLE CAN REALLY LEARN SKILLS.

WE ALSO PROVIDE ALL KINDS OF SERVICES FOR PEOPLE WHO DON'T HAVE TECHNOLOGY IN THEIR HOMES.

SO ACCESS TO COMPUTERS, ACCESS TO PRINTING, WE PROVIDE NOTARY PUBLIC SERVICES.

WE ARE A PASSPORT LOCATION WHERE PEOPLE CAN COME, GET THEIR PICTURES TAKEN, DO THEIR PAPERWORK FOR PASSPORTS.

WE'RE REALLY, YOU KNOW, TAKING ON A HUGE AMOUNT OF SORT OF-- SORRY, I'M LOSING MY THOUGHT.

>> THEY'RE PUBLIC SERVICES.

AS YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT THIS, I WAS JUST THINKING-- I'VE BEEN THINKING OF WHERE TO GET MY PASSPORT PHOTO BECAUSE I DON'T HAVE A PASSPORT AND I KNOW MY LOCAL LIBRARY PROVIDES THAT AND THAT'S A GAME CHANGER FOR PEOPLE TO HAVE THIS SERVICE.

AND JUST ON THAT NOTE, JEREMY, I'M WONDERING, SO IF THE STATE CUTS ITS FUNDING TO LIBRARIES AND LIBRARIES WANT TO KEEP THE SAME LEVEL OF SERVICES, THE SAME STAFF, ALL OF THAT, IS IT REALISTIC TO THINK THAT LOCALITIES AND MUNICIPALITIES CAN MAKE UP THAT LOST REVENUE THROUGH RAISING TAXES OR GETTING REVENUE SOMEWHERE ELSE?

IT SEEMS LIKE A BIG CHUNK OF CHANGE TO MAKE UP.

>> WELL, AS CLAUDIA POINTED OUT, THE BULK OF THE STATE FUNDING IS UNDERWRITING THE SYSTEM INFRASTRUCTURE AND MAKING SO MANY OF THE THINGS THAT MAKE YOUR LIBRARY POSSIBLE.

SO THOSE CUTS IMPACT SYSTEMS AND THEIR ABILITY TO PROVIDE THOSE SERVICES.

BUT MUCH LIKE THE WAY FUNDING WORKS FOR OUR PUBLIC SCHOOLS ARE WHEN FUNDING IS REDUCED TO THE STATE LEVEL, YES.

THEY NEED TO LOOK TO THE LOCALITIES TO BALANCE THE BUDGET, BUT FOR BETTER OR WORSE, WE'RE ALL VERY FAMILIAR WITH THE TAX CAP, WHICH LIMITS AND APPLIES TO LIBRARIES THAT ARE GOING UP, AND IT MEANS THEY'RE PINCHED IN BOTH DIRECTIONS AND IN THE END, LIBRARIES ARE FORCED TO REDUCE SERVICES, REDUCE HOURS, CUT BACK ON COLLECTION DEVELOPMENT, CUT BACK ON LITERALLY EVERYTHING THAT THEY DO IN ORDER TO BALANCE THE BOOKS.

>> IT'S JUST A LOT TO THINK ABOUT.

AS SOMEBODY WHO FOLLOWS STATE POLITICS AND THE STATE BUDGET, I GUESS I DIDN'T REALIZE BEFORE THIS INTERVIEW, ADMITTEDLY, THAT LIBRARIES TOUCH SO MANY PARENTS OF OUR LIVES.

SO MAYBE I SHOULD VISIT MY OWN LOCAL PUBLIC LIBRARY.

WE HAVE TO LEAVE IT THERE.

JEREMY JOHANESSEN AND CLAUDIA DEPKIN, BOTH FROM THE NEW YORK LIBRARY ASSOCIATION.

THANK YOU BOTH SO MUCH.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING US.

>> THANK YOU.

[ THEME MUSIC ] >> AND WE SHOULD ALSO POINT OUT THAT THE STATE IS CONSIDERING ADDITIONAL CUTS TO LOCALITIES WHICH COULD TRICKLE DOWN TO LIBRARIES.

WE'LL KNOW MORE IN THE NEXT FEW WEEKS AS LAWMAKERS HASH OUT THE STATE BUDGET.

THAT'S DUE AT THE END OF MARCH.

UNTIL THEN, THANKS FOR WATCHING THIS WEEK'S "NEW YORK NOW."

HAVE A GREAT WEEK AND BE WELL.

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