[ ♪♪ ] [ ♪♪ ] >> WELCOME BACK.

THE FIRST GOVERNOR'S DEBATE NOW IS HISTORY AND HOW DID GRETCHEN WHITMER AND TUDOR DIXON DO?

WE'LL TURN TO OUR PANEL NOW FOR MORE AND SIT IN WITH US AS WE GET THE INSIDE-OUT, "OFF THE RECORD."

[ ♪♪ ] >> Announcer: PRODUCTION OF THIS SHOW IS MADE IN PART BY MARTIN WEIGHPLAYER PARTNERING WITH OUR PARTNERS AND YOU CAN LEARN MORE ONLINE AT OUR WEBSITE AND NOW THIS EDITION OF "OFF THE RECORD."

>> THANK YOU.

WELCOME TO "OFF THE RECORD."

I'M OBVIOUSLY NOT WITH PANEL IN THE STUDIO, WE ARE ON THE DOWNSIDE OF FIGHTING YOU-KNOW-WHAT AND DID NOT WANT TO CONTAMINATE THE PANEL.

HOW ARE YOU?

>> DOING WELL.

>> HANGING IN THERE.

>> THE QUESTION IS HOW DID THE GOVERNOR AND TUDOR DIXON DO, EMILY?

>> FANTASTIC, I THOUGHT THAT THAT WAS A REALLY GOOD DEBATE.

WE SAW TWO CANDIDATES PRESENTING THEIR POSITIONS SOLIDLY, COMING ACROSS REALLY WELL.

HITTING ONE ANOTHER AT MOMENTS.

GETTING THEIR ZINGERS IN.

THAT IS WHAT I SAW.

>> I THINK THAT I WOULD AGREE WITH THAT.

I THINK THAT DIXON WAS VERY MUCH A PIT BULL, HAMMERING WHITMER ON HER RECORD WHICH I THINK WAS IMPORTANT FOR HER IN THE DEBATE AND WHITMER MAINTAINED HER STATUS QUO, DEFENDING HER RECORD AND ATTACKING DIXON A LITTLE BIT.

THESE ARE TWO MEDIA-TRAINED CANDIDATES COMFORTABLE UNDER THE STUDIO LIGHTS AND YOU SAW THAT POLISH COMING FORWARD LAST NIGHT.

>> YES.

I WOULD AGREE.

I THINK THAT BOTH CANDIDATES WENT THE DISTANCE.

I THINK THAT IF YOU WERE A WHITMER FAN GOING IN, YOU CAME OUT AS A WHITMER FAN.

AND I THINK THE SAME FOR DIXON, MAYBE DIXON BY AN EDGE FOR THE FACT THAT SHE WENT UP AGAINST THE HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMP, DID NOT GET KNOCKED OUT AND CAME OUT OKAY BUT I THOUGHT THAT BOTH OF THEM GOT THEIR JABS IN.

IT WAS -- THEY TOOK SHOTS AT ONE ANOTHER BUT THEY WERE ALSO RESPECTFUL.

IT DID NOT GET DOWN IN THE DIRT, IN THE WEEDS WHERE I THINK THAT THE AUDIENCE HAD WALKED AWAY SAYING, OH, THAT WAS HORRIBLE AND I WANT TO TURN THIS OFF.

I THINK THAT THE AUDIENCE WAS ENGAGED AND CLEARLY YOU SAW THAT THESE WERE TWO VERY DIFFERENT WOMEN WITH VERY DIFFERENT POLICIES AND WHICHEVER ONE IS SITTING IN THAT MAIN OFFICE NEXT YEAR, THEY ARE GOING TO INSTITUTE WHAT IT IS THAT THEY SAID THAT THEY WOULD DO.

>> IT FELT LIKE A RETURN TO FORM.

HONESTLY, IT WAS REFRESHING TO SEE A DEBATE NOT SIDETRACKED BY PERSONAL INSULTS OR RANDOM INTERRUPTIONS.

IT FELT LIKE GOING BACK TO BASICS.

WHAT STOOD OUT TO ME, IMMEDIATELY, DIXON SAYING OFF OF THE BAT THAT, FOR MANY OF YOU, THIS MIGHT BE YOUR FIRST TIME SEEING ME AND FOR THAT EXACT REASON SHE MADE A GREAT SHOWING FOR VOTERS WHO MIGHT BE PUTTING THE NAME "TUDOR DIXON" TO A FACE OR BEING AWARE OF IT FOR THE FIRST TIME IN THE WHOLE CAMPAIGN CYCLE.

GETTING IN FRONT OF VOTERS IS IMPORTANT.

YOU HAVE HAD A TON OF TIME TO DO IT.

BUT STAYING IN FRONT OF THEM, ESPECIALLY NOW WITH, WHAT?

A MONTH OR SO LEFT TO THE ELECTION.

SHE CEMENTED HERSELF IN PEOPLE'S MINDS AS BEING, AS WE HAD POINTED OUT, WELL-SPOKEN.

SHE FOUGHT BACK AGAINST THE GOVERNOR.

WENT TOE-TO-TOE AND CAME OUT RELATIVELY UNSCATHED.

>> YES, IF THERE WAS A SINGLE DISAPPOINTMENT FROM THIS DEBATE, TIM, IT WAS BACKWARD-LOOKING, THEY WERE FOCUSING LARGELY ON THE RECORD OF WHITMER BUT WE DID NOT HEAR A LOT ABOUT -- WE ARE IN CURRENTLY UNCERTAIN ECONOMIC TIMES, AT BEST.

AS A RESULT WE DID NOT HEAR THESE CANDIDATES SAYING THIS IS HOW WE WILL PROVIDE STABILITY FOR THE PEOPLE OF MICHIGAN MOVING FORWARD AND SHOULD THEY BE ELECTED.

>> SOMETHING THAT YOU DID SEE, IN THE CLOSING STATEMENTS WHICH I THOUGHT WAS INTERESTING, YOU SAW WHITMER EVEN THOUGH THERE WAS A BACK AND FORTH SHE SAID I'M ABOUT THE VISION.

HERE IS MY VISION.

HERE IS WHAT YOU WILL GET WITH FOUR MORE YEARS.

DIXON, SHE HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO TALK ABOUT HER VISION AT THAT POINT SHE DECIDED THAT I WILL KEEP ON GOING AFTER YOU.

AND I THINK IT WAS STRATEGIC, PROBABLY SOMETHING THAT SHE NEEDED TO DO BECAUSE FOR SUCH A LONG PERIOD OF TIME RIGHT AFTER THE PRIMARY, WE DID NOT SEE DIXON ENGAGED.

SO I THINK THAT SHE FELT THAT NOW I HAVE GOT A FULL AUDIENCE FROM THE U.P.

DOWN AND I WILL TAKE ADVANTAGE.

>> GO AHEAD, EMILY.

>> DIXON TOOK THE EXACT RIGHT TACK FOR SOMEONE IN HER POSITION, GOING UP AGAINST A STRONG INCUMBNT AND DOES NOT HAVE THE MONEY TO FIGHT HER IN EARNED MEDIA.

SHE HAS NOT BEEN ON AIRWAVES OR IN THE HOMES OF PEOPLE IN THAT WAY.

JORDAN MENTIONED HER COMING OUT OF THE GATE SAYING THAT THIS MIGHT BE THE FIRST TIME THAT YOU HAVE HEARD FROM ME DIRECTLY AND SHE PUT ON A STRONG SHOWING AGAINST A STRONG, INCUMBENT GOVERNOR.

>> AND I THOUGHT THAT IT WAS INTERESTING.

I THINK THAT THEY WERE BOTH WORKING OUT OF SAME PLAYBOOK.

HAD IT BEEN A ONE-HOUR DEBATE IT WOULD HAVE LASTED 30 MINUTES IF THEY TOOK OUT YOU ARE RADICAL, DANGEROUS, DISRUPTIVE, DANGEROUS AND OUT OF TOUCH.

BOTH SAID THE SAME THINGS ABOUT ONE ANOTHER.

IT WAS INTERESTING.

YOU ARE AS BAD AS I AM, SORT OF THICK.

DID ANYONE REACT TO THOSE NUMBERS OR WORDS IN THE DEBATE.

>> YES, THEY SPENT A LOT OF TIME DESCRIBING THE POSITIONS OF ONE ANOTHER AND THEIR POSITIONS FOR AUDIENCE.

YOU HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO FRAME YOUR OWN POSITIONS AND FIRM UP YOUR OWN BOUNDARIES AND, INSTEAD, THEY TRY TO DEFINE ONE ANOTHER.

>> IT WAS AN INVERSION OF THE FORMAT, RIGHT?

THEY HAD THE 60 SECONDS AND THEN TOOK THAT SAYING HERE IS MY OPPONENT'S RECORD AND THE REBUTTAL IS, NO, NO, THAT IS A LIE, THIS IS MY RECORD.

>> THE OTHER THING THAT WAS GOING ON, WE KNOW FROM THE START THAT GOVERNOR WHITMER HAS A BOATLOAD OF CASH AND HAS SPENT IT THROUGH THE PRIMARY, LEADING NOW UP TO THE GENERAL AND THIS WAS TUDOR DIXON'S WAY OF SAYING TO THE NATION, LOOK, IF YOU ARE NOT SPENDING MONEY IN THE RACE NOW, YOU SHOULD BE.

YES, SHE GOT MONEY FROM THE REPUBLICAN GOVERNORS' ASSOCIATION WHO HAVE COME IN WITH SOME BUT I THINK THAT SHE IS LOOKING TO SHAKE THOSE TREES MORE AND THIS WILL LIKELY MAKE THOSE OUTSIDE OF MICHIGAN PAY MORE ATTENTION TO WHAT IS GOING ON IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN.

>> THAT IS THE MESSAGE TO TAKE AWAY FROM THIS, RIGHT?

TALKING ABOUT EARNED MEDIA AND THE FACT THAT DIXON DOES NOT HAVE THE FINANCES TO KEEP UP WITH WHITMER.

IF SHE IS GETTING PEOPLE TO CONTINUE TO BUY INTO HER CAMPAIGN, NOW AT THIS POINT WE SEE A REPUBLICAN GOVERNORS' ASSOCIATION AD FOR HER NOW BUT WE'RE IN THE LAST LEG OF CAMPAIGN SEASON AND IF YOU ARE GETTING MONEY NOW AND THE ABILITY TO GET IN FRONT OF PEOPLE NOW YOU HAVE TO MAKE IT COUNT.

SHE DID LAST NIGHT.

HOW MUCH DOES THAT MAKE IT COUNT GOING TO ACTUALLY COUNT?

I MEAN, WE SPEAK ABOUT THE FACT THAT THIS WAS SEEN BY EVERYONE FROM THE U.P.

ON DOWN.

THIS DEBATE WAS NOT TELEVISED IN THE DETROIT AREA.

THAT IS A HUGE VOTING SWATH.

THE NEXT ONE ON THE 25th, THAT ONE WILL BE -- >> IT WILL BE SEEN IN DETROIT, GUARANTEED.

>> YES, RIGHT.

[ LAUGHTER ] >> SO IT WILL BE INTERESTING FROM HERE ON IN, FIGURING OUT HOW MUCH THIS PRESENCE OF HERS IS ACTUALLY GOING TO TRANSLATE INTO FINANCES THAT CAN TRANSLATE THEN INTO USABLE FINANCES BECAUSE GETTING THIS MONEY THIS LATE IN THE GAME MAY NOT BE THAT MUCH OF A BOONE FOR HER.

>> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I WAS LOOKING FOR IN THE DEBATE AND THERE WAS A DISTINCT DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO PEOPLE STANDING THERE, WITH THEIR LEGISLATIVE AND POLITICAL EXPERIENCE.

YOU GO IN SAYING THAT GOVERNOR WHITMER SHOULD CLEAN UP THE FLOOR HERE BECAUSE SHE HAS ALL OF THIS EXPERIENCE.

BUT I THINK THAT AT THE END OF THE DAY WE SAW THAT DIXON STOOD TOE-TO-TOE WITH THE SITTING GOVERNOR AND BASICALLY MADE HER POINTS.

YOU KNOW, IT DID NOT GET NASTY, OKAY?

IT DID NOT GET NASTY.

BUT YOU COULD TELL AND IT WAS INTERESTING, I THOUGHT, THAT THE GOVERNMENT SAID AND EVERYONE WAS LOOKING FORWARD TO, OH, THIS IS TWO FEMALES AGAINST ONE ANOTHER.

I DO NOT KNOW IF THERE WAS A STORY ANGLE THERE AT ALL, DOES ANYONE?

>> NO, I DO NOT THINK SO.

JUST FROM THE ONSET, YOU KNEW IT WAS HISTORIC IN THAT SENSE, THAT THE TWO FEMALES HAD NOT RUN FOR GOVERNOR HEAD-TO-HEAD.

BUT WHEN YOU GOT PAST THAT, IT WAS ABOUT, YOU KNOW, WHAT WILL MY POLICIES BE?

WHAT WILL YOUR POLICIES BE?

WE SAW A VERY DISTINCT DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THEM.

>> YES.

I WOULD PUSH BACK JUST A LITTLE BIT ON THE CHARACTERIZATION BECAUSE A DEBATE IS A PERFORMANCE FUNDAMENTALLY AND DIXON HAD SPENT A LOT OF TIME IN FRONT OF THE CAMERA ON REAL AMERICA'S ADVICE AND SHE IS POLISHED AND WHERE THE RUBBER MEETS THE RODE THERE, REALLY WE HAVE NO IDEA OF DIXON AND HOW SHE WILL PERFORM UNTIL SHE IS IN OFFICE IN THAT REGARD.

>> ONE THING ABOUT DEBATE, RESEARCH INDICATES THAT EVERYONE LOOKS TO THE CONTENT THAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT.

THE ISSUES HERE.

AT THE END OF THE DAY IT IS ALL ABOUT HOW THE AUDIENCE FEELS ABOUT THE CANDIDATES THAT THEY SAW UP THERE.

THE QUESTION IS: DID THEY BOTH LOOK GUBERNATORIAL OR NOT AND WHAT IMAGE DID THEY PROJECT TO THOSE AT HOME?

JORDAN, TAKE A SHOT AT THAT.

>> THEY PROJECTED THE IMAGE OF TWO VERY STRONG, WELL-SPOKEN WOMEN WHO HAVE THEIR OWN IDEAS ABOUT HOW TO LEAD THIS STATE GOING FORWARD.

I MEAN, OTHER THAN THAT, I MEAN, THEY JUST PRESENTED A FINE, POLISHED VERSION OF THEMSELVES BUT, AGAIN, AT THIS TIME IN THE GAME, YOU KNOW, DEBATES, WE'RE TALKING A LOT ABOUT THEM NOW.

MOST PEOPLE, FIFTY-FIFTY ON WHETHER OR NOT THEY WATCH THEM.

SO I MEAN THAT SHOWING FROM DIXON, WHILE IMPORTANT, THE SHOWING FROM WHITMER WHILE REINFORCING HER ROLE AS GOVERNOR, T.B.D.

ON HOW THAT IS RECEIVED BY FOLKS AT HOME.

>> YES.

EXPERIENCE FACTOR THAT WAS AN ISSUE IN THERE, GOVERNOR WHITMER CERTAINLY TRYING IN MANY DIFFERENT WAYS TO POINT OUT THAT TUDOR DIXON WAS NOT READY TO BE GOVERNOR, DID NOT HAVE THE EXPERIENCE TO BE GOVERNOR, THAT SHE HAS FOUR YEARS UNDER HER BELT AND SHE HAS BEEN TRIED UNDER FIRE AND, SO FAR, IN HER OPINION SHE HAS DONE WELL WITH THIS.

BUT I THINK THAT DIXON DID A GOOD JOB OF BEING ABLE TO SAY, LOOK, YOU HAVE SEEN THIS GOVERNOR FOR FOUR YEARS NOW AND SHE HAS SAID THAT SHE WOULD DO A LOT OF THINGS, SOME OF THEM SHE HAS BEEN ABLE TO DO, SOME NOT.

EVEN THOUGH WHITMER TRIED TO SAY THE LEGISLATURE IS WHY I COULD NOT GET MANY OF THESE THINGS DONE.

I THOUGHT THAT SHE WAS GOOD AT TRYING TO SAY DO NOT BLAME THE LEGISLATURE.

IT IS YOUR WATCH.

IF THEY DID NOT GET DONE.

YOU HAVE GOT TO TAKE THE BLAME FOR NOT GETTING IT DONE.

>> I WAS GOING TO SAY THAT I THOUGHT THAT DIXON RELIED ON INDIVIDUALS NOT UNDERSTANDING THE SEPARATION OF WHAT THE GOVERNOR CAN DO AND WHAT THE LEGISLATURE IS TASKED WITH DOING BECAUSE THERE WAS A POINT ON TAX CUTS OBVIOUSLY, A GOOD SMACK AT WHITMER BECAUSE AT FACE VALUE YOU SEE THIS CONCEPT OF THE GOVERNOR DECIDED NOT TO CUT TAXES FOR YOU AS A VOTER.

THIS IS SOMETHING THAT YOU SHOULD BE OUTRAGED ABOUT.

BUT IF YOU WERE IN THE KITCHEN, A PART OF MAKING THE SAUSAGE, YOU KNOW THAT THERE WAS SO MUCH MORE THAT WENT INTO THAT.

DIXON, SHE DID A REALLY GOOD JOB AT MAKING SURE THAT PEOPLE WERE GETTING THE ICING ON THE CAKE BUT NOT SEEING ALL OF THE INGREDIENTS THAT WENT INTO IT.

>> IT IS ALSO IMPORTANT TO RECOGNIZE THAT WE ARE SUCH A POLARIZED ELECTORATE NOW THAT EACH OF THESE GROUPS LOOK FOR SOMETHING DIFFERENT OUT OF THEIR LEADERS.

IT IS IMPORTANT TO THE REPUBLICAN BASE THAT YOU HAVE A FIGHTER.

AND WHITMER TRIED TO POSITION HERSELF AS ABOVE THE FRAY BUT WAS ENGAGED BY DIXON SO CONSTANTLY THAT SHE HAD NO CHOICE BUT TO FIGHT BACK AND I DO NOT KNOW IF SHE WAS AS PREPARED FOR THAT SHOWING HERSELF TO BE A A-POLITICAL LEADER AND DIXON DID A GOOD JOB TO ATTACK HER, UNDERCUTTING THAT STRATEGY.

>> THE BIG QUESTION MARK IN MY MIND, TIM, EACH SIDE PLAYED AND TRIED TO PAINT ONE ANOTHER AS EXTREME, EXTREME RIGHT AND EXTREME LEFT.

WHAT ABOUT THAT PERSON THAT DOES NOT ALWAYS VOTE DEMOCRAT OR REPUBLICAN?

I'M NOT SURE HOW THEY WALKED AWAY FROM THIS DEBATE AND WHICH SIDE THEY WILL GO TO.

I DID NOT SEE EITHER ONE NECESSARILY TRYING TO PLAY FOR THAT MIDDLE PERSON THERE, AND THAT WILL BE A VERY INTERESTING QUESTION MARK, TO SEE HOW THEY WEIGH IN.

>> I FEEL FOR THAT MIDDLE PERSON.

>> GO AHEAD, GUYS.

>> I FEEL FOR THAT MIDDLE PERSON, THAT THERE WAS NO DIFFERENCE, THAT NEITHER OF THESE CANDIDATES MOVED IN TOWARDS THEM.

WHITMER MAINTAINING HER TACT AS A UNIFIER, RIGHT, BUT BECAUSE OF HOW THEY HAD TO ENGAGE ONE ANOTHER DIXON PREVENTED HER FROM GOING TOWARDS THE MIDDLE.

>> YES, BECAUSE SHE DID SAY A NUMBER OF TIMES THAT I WILL WORK WITH ANYONE AS LONG AS THEY COME TO THE TABLE WITH AN IDEA AND NOT JUST POLITICS.

>> AND DIXON JUST SAID THAT IS FALSE, NOT TRUE.

>> IN FACT, SHE SAID IT SIX TIMES, PARTISANSHIP.

I COUNTED.

>> YOU COUNTED.

>> FROM THE OPENING BILL.

DID YOU NOTICE THAT THE NUMBER OF BILLS THAT SHE HAD SIGNED FROM 800 SHE SAID IN THE AD TO 900 IN THE DEBATE, NOT SURE IF SHE HAD SIGNED THAT LAST 100 BETWEEN COMMERCIALS BUT Ms. DIXON CAME BACK AND SAID THAT YOU HAD NOT COME TO THE TABLE AND THAT IS WHERE THE GOVERNOR DID NOT LECTURE MS. DIXON BUT SAID, YOU KNOW WHAT?

THE REPUBLICANS CONTROLLED THE LEGISLATURE.

IF THEY USE ME SOMETHING THAT I THINK IS BAD, I WILL USE THE VETO PEN AND MS. DIXON SAID THAT YOU HAD VETOED MORE THAN ANYONE IN THE LAST SEVENTY YEARS AND THEY FOUL TO A A DRAW THERE.

-- THEY FOUGHT TO A DRAW THERE.

BUT DOES IT CHANGE ANYTHING FOR ANYONE, FOLKS?

>> I DO NOT THINK SO.

I DO NOT THINK THAT YOU NECESSARILY MOVED ANYONE FROM OUTSIDE OF THE CAMP THAT THEY WERE IN.

IF YOU WERE A DIXON FAN, I THINK THAT YOU CAME AWAY A DIXON FAN.

IF YOU WERE A WHITMER FAN, YOU CAME AWAY SAYING, MY CANDIDATE DID JUST FINE AND SO THEY DESERVE A REMATCH.

>> IT WAS A COMFORTABLE DEBATE FOR ALL THINGS CONSIDERED.

I MEAN, EVERYONE GOT TO HEAR WHAT THEY MORE OR LESS WANTED TO HEAR.

STILL, WE WAIT ON THE MIDDLE.

AND, YOU KNOW, WE OBVIOUSLY HAVE A LOT OF DEBATE LEFT TO DO THERE.

YES, IF IT HAD CHANGED ANYTHING, AT THIS POINT, NO, I THINK THAT IT IS PREMATURE TO SAY THAT THIS HAS MADE A DEFINITIVE IMPACT ON THE ELECTION THUS FAR.

>> I THINK THAT THE NUMBERS WILL CONTINUE TO CLOSE UP, FROM 17 A COUPLE OF MONTHS AGO, WE'RE DOWN TO 11 AND I THINK THAT THEY WILL GO LOWER.

>> THANK YOU FOR THAT SEGUE, I WENT TO GET INTO THE POLLING DATA AND CHUCK WILL BE MODERATING ON WXYZ AND, CHUCK, GOOD LUCK WHEN YOU GET DOWN TO DOING THAT.

I KNOW THAT YOU WILL DO FINE.

>> THANK YOU.

>> WE HAVE A 11-POINT LEAD AND THE POLLERS SAY THAT THEY THINK THAT THE WHITMER LOSS OF FIVE POINTS IS BECAUSE OF INFLATION AND THE REPUBLICAN EFFORTS TO LINK YOU KNOW WHO IN THE WHITE HOUSE TO THE EXECUTIVE RESIDENCE AND WHAT DID YOU MAKE OF THE 11-POINT LEAD?

>> YES, ABSOLUTELY.

THE ECONOMY PLAYS INTO IT.

PEOPLE ARE FEELING THE PINCH RIGHT NOW AND I SEE CONSTERNATION OF GROCERY PRICES, GAS PRICES GOING BACK UP I'M SURE THAT YOU HAVE NOTICED IF LIKE ME YOU MAKE THAT TREK TO A DIFFERENT CITY ONCE A WEEK.

PEOPLE NOTICE THAT.

PEOPLE, I THINK, TEND TO THINK THAT WHITMER, BIDEN HAVE SOME ROLE TO PLAY IN THAT.

NOW WHETHER OR NOT THEY ACTUALLY DO IS UP FOR INTERPRETATION, I THINK.

BUT IT IS NOT JUST WHITMER'S RACE, WE SEE MARGINS NARROW FOR ATTORNEY GENERAL RACE, SECRETARY OF STATE RACE AND I WOULD NOT BE SURPRISED AS CHUCK SAID IF THOSE GET CLOSER, CLOSER TO THE ELECTION.

>> I AGREE.

BUT A BIG THING WORKING IN DEMOCRATS FAVOR IS THAT A BROADER PORTION OF THE ELECTORATE USES ABSENTEE BALLOTS, 1.50 MILLION WERE REQUESTED THIS WEEK AND 1 150,00 RETURNED ALREADY AND THE MORE RETURNS ARE MADE THE BETTER OFF THE DEMOCRATS WILL BE ESPECIALLY AS GAS PRICES RISE.

>> GO AHEAD, JORDAN.

>> I WAS GOING TO SAY THAT ABORTION BY AND LARGE WAS A HUGE ISSUE IN THE SUMMER AND IN THE POST DOBBS DECISION BUT NOW THAT WE'RE A LITTLE BIT REMOVED FROM THAT, WITH PROP 3 AND POLLING THAT SHOWS MOST MICHIGANDERS DO SUPPORT SOME KIND OF SAFE ACCESS TO ABORTION I FEEL LIKE THAT TALKING POINT LARGELY WORKING IN THE FAVOR OF THE DEMOCRATS THE EFFICACY OF THAT IS REDUCED MORE AS WE START TO SEE POINTED OUT BY EMILY, ISSUES AT THE GROCERY STORE, GAS PUMPS, FINANCIAL TIGHTENINGS AND THE MORE THAT SOMETHING AFFECTS YOU, THE MORE THAT THAT IS A MOTIVATED FORCE FOR VOTING.

>> AND CLEARLY POLLING SHOWED THAT ABORTION WAS THE NUMBER ONE ISSUE, FOLLOWING FAIRLY CLOSELY BY INFLATION.

BUT I THINK THAT -- >> AND IT IS THE OTHER WAY AROUND, 29% FOR INFLATION AND 17% FOR ABORTION, SORRY TO CORRECT YOU.

>> OKAY, ALL RIGHT.

SORRY ABOUT THAT.

GLAD.

BUT I WONDER IF, WHEN YOU GET RIGHT DOWN TO IT, BECAUSE SO MUCH ATTENTION HAS BEEN ON THE ABORTION ISSUE BECAUSE OF THE ADS FOR THE AVERAGE PERSONALITY HOME, IF THAT IS REALLY THE NUMBER ONE ISSUE WITH THEM OR WILL IT COME DOWN TO, WHAT WILL I SPEND IN TERMS OF MY POCKETBOOK AND EDUCATION.

WE LOOK TO WHAT IS HAPPENING WITH THE SCHOOL BOARDS ALL OVER THE STATE RIGHT NOW, PEOPLE ARE ENGAGED IN EDUCATION.

IT IS A HEATED ISSUE, A PARTISAN ISSUE AS WELL AS THE SAFETY AND SECURITY OF THEIR KIDS GOING TO SCHOOL.

AND SO I'M NOT SURE HOW PEOPLE ARE GOING TO VOLT WHEN THEY GO INTO THOSE BOOTHS.

>> I AGREE.

I THINK THAT THE AMERICAN ELECTORATE FUNDAMENTALLY HAS A MEMORY THAT IS SHORT AND THE IMMEDIACY OF INFLATION IS GREATER THAN ABORTION FOR A VAST MAJORITY OF VOTERS I THINK THAT THAT IS INESCAPABLE AND IF DEMOCRATS CANNOT KEEP THE PRESENCE OF MIND ON THAT ISSUE OF ABORTION THAT WILL HURT THEM IN NOVEMBER.

>> I WILL SAY THOUGH FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF A WOMAN THE CONCEPT OF ABORTION IS ON AT LEAST 50% OF THE POPULATIONS MIND ALMOST CONSTANTLY.

THAT IS ANOTHER FACTOR PLAYING INTO THIS, THAT RECEPTION OF GENDER AS IT INTERACTS WITH PROP 3 AND INFLATION AND, AGAIN, WE'RE BASICALLY SAYING A LOT OF WORDS TO SAY THAT WE DO NOT KNOW HOW THIS WILL TURN OUT.

SPECULATION WILL REMAIN.

>> ALL RIGHT.

SO IF YOU ARE SITTING IN THE DANA NESTLE CAMP LOOKING TO A FOUR-POINT DIFFERENCE WITH YOUR OPPONENT WITH NO TV COMMERCIALS AND MOST PEOPLE HAVE NO IDEA WHO HE IS, THE QUESTION IS, WHAT IS GOING ON?

>> I THINK THAT THAT IS THE BIGGEST THING WORKING FOR THE REPUBLICAN CANDIDATES, THAT THEY ARE RELATIVELY ANONYMOUS.

DEMOCRATS HAVE NOT SPENT A LOT OF TIME ATTACKING THESE CANDIDATES AND LOOKING AT AUDIO CLIPS AND SOUNDS BYTES THAT MIGHT BE MOST UNPALATABLE TO VOTERS AND BECAUSE THEY ARE ANONYMOUS THIS IS A GENERIC REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE AND IT WORKS IN THE FAVOR OF THE OTHERS.

>> WE ARE LOOKING TO DO FAVOURABILITY RATINGS IN THE FREE PRESS COMMISSION POLL AND FAVOURABILITY, 76% OF PEOPLE DID NOT KNOW WHO MATT WAS AND THAT NUMBER HAS HEALTH STEADY THROUGHOUT THE LAST SEVERAL POLLS.

WHEN YOU ARE COMING DOWN TO, DANA MIGHT HAVE AN UNFAVOURABILITY PROBLEM TO SOME EXTENT AND TO THE EXTENT, PERHAPS, THAT PEOPLE KNOW WHO SHE IS, THEY ARE A LITTLE MISTRUSTFUL AND THAT MAY BE A PART OF IT.

I DO THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, IF I WERE LOOKING TO THE FOUR-POINT MARGIN, WITH A FOUR-POINT MARGIN FOR ERROR, THEN CERTAINLY YOU HAVE REASON TO BE CONCERNED.

>> YES, IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE NOW IF MATT WILL GET MONEY TO START TO DO SOME ADS AT THE LAST SECOND AND THEN, OF COURSE AS WE ALL SAID EARLIER, ALL OF THESE ABSENTEE BALLOTS THAT ARE OUT THERE, A HUGE NUMBER ALREADY RETURNED.

A LOT OF OTHERS ARE SITTING RIGHT THERE ON THEIR BALLOTS AND HAVE NOT YET RETURNED THEM.

AND SO SOME HANDS HERE HAD GONE UP.

HOW THAT WEIGHS IN WILL BE INTERESTING.

>> SPEAKING OF COMMERCIALS, WE HAVE SOME.

THE REPUBLICAN GOVERNORS' ASSOCIATION AS YOU MENTIONED EARLIER SHOWED UP WITH $3.40 MILLION AND THIS IS THE FIRST AD THAT THEY POPPED AGAINST THE GOVERNOR.

>> nnouncer: GRETCHEN WHITMER SAYS ONE THING BUT DOES THE OTHER.

WHITMER PROMISED TO FIX THE ROADS.

BUT SHE DIDN'T.

OUR ROADS ARE STILL CRUMBLING.

WHITMER PROMISED TO PROTECT MICHIGAN WORKERS.

BUT SHE DIDN'T.

WE HAVE LOST THOUSANDS OF JOBS.

WHEN WHITMER TOLD YOU TO STAY HOME.

SHE DIDN'T.

WHITMER VACATIONED IN FLORIDA.

IT IS TIME FOR A CHANGE.

TUDOR DIXON WILL CUT TAXES.

GET MICHIGAN BACK TO WORK.

PUT KIDS AND PARENTS FIRST.

TUDOR DIXON FOR GOVERNOR.

>> OKAY.

I TELL YOU WHAT WE WILL DO, WE HAVE JUST FIVE MINUTES LEFT, WE WILL RUN THE COMMERCIAL THAT THE D'S CONTINUE TO RUN ON MS. DIXON AND WE'LL COMMENT THERE TOO.

>> Announcer: WHEN WE RESPECT HARD WORK, WE REWARD IT.

BUT TUDOR DIXON'S TAX PLAN REWARDS WEALTH INSTEAD.

DIXON WOULD GIVE A NEW TAX BREAK WORTH MILLIONS TO BILLIONAIRES LIKE BETSY DEVOS WHILE THEY'VE SPENT $4 MILL PROMOTING DIXON.

>> YES, THEY HAVE BEEN VERY INFLUENTIAL.

>> MORE MONEY FOR DEVOS, MORE POWER FOR DIXON AND YOU COULD BE STUCK WITH HIGHER SALES AND PROPERTY TAX TO PAY FOR IT ALL.

THE DIXON deVOS AGENDA HURTS MICHIGAN.

>> WE SHOULD POINT OUT THAT BETSY deVOS IS NOT HER LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR RUNNING MADE.

PLEASE RESPOND.

>> THEY ARE BOTH SMART.

THEY TAP INTO THEMES THAT VOTERS CARE ABOUT.

ONE IS HYPOCRISY.

PEOPLE ARE INTERESTED AND WANT TO READ THAT.

WE SAW THAT IN THE RGA AD.

THE OTHER ONE IS BETSY deVOS, A MICHIGAN FIGURE GAINING NATIONAL PROMINENCE SERVING IN THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION, THEN LEAVING THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION AND I THINK THAT BOTH OF THOSE THINGS ARE TIE-IN CANDIDATES TO THINGS HITTING HOME WITH VOTERS AND ARE PROVEN WINNERS WITH THE ELECTORATE.

>> I AGREE, 100%.

YOU HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD.

CLEARLY THEY DID ALL OF THEIR RESEARCH, FIGURED OUT WHAT IT IS THAT THEY BELIEVE RESONATES WITH THE AVERAGE VOTER OUT THERE.

YOU DO NOT HAVE TO DO A LOT OF EXPLAINING WITH THOSE ADS.

EVERYONE KNOWS WHO BETSY deVOS IS.

AND EVERYONE KNOWS ABOUT THE CONTROVERSY INVOLVED WITH COVID-19, THE TRIP TO FLORIDA.

THESE THINGS ARE EMBEDDED IN THE MINDS OF PEOPLE AND YOU LOOK TO DRIVE THOSE THINGS HOME, HOPE THAT THEY WORK FOR YOU AND WE'LL WAIT-AND-SEE.

>> I HAVE TO ADMIT BUT I WAS NOT SURPRISED BUT INTERESTED THAT THEY HONED IN ON THAT WHITMER TRIP TO FLORIDA BECAUSE ALL THINGS CONSIDERED IT SEEMS SMALL POTATOES, I WILL NOT SAY THAT, BUT IN THE GRAND SCHEME THERE ARE A NUMBER OF THINGS THAT YOU COULD HIT WHITMER ON THAT YOU HAVE TO WONDER WHY THAT?

WHY THAT TALKING POINT?

IT IS ANOTHER WAY TO HARKEN BACK TO COVID-19 AND THE THOUGHT THAT, BY SOME, WHITMER DID A HORRIBLE JOB OF HANDLING IT BUT IT FEELS LIKE WE'RE SCRAPING THE BOTTOM OF THE BARREL HERE AND IT MIGHT BE SOMETHING THAT, BELTWAY TALK ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT IT WILL BE EFFECTIVE.

I DON'T KNOW.

IT WAS JUST INTERESTING FOR ME.

>> I THINK THAT THERE ARE A LITTLE BIT OF "INSIDE BASEBALL" ASSUMPTIONS THERE WITH THE WORDING THAT WHITMER WENT ON VACATION TO FLORIDA.

IF ARE YOU A LOW INFORMATION VOTER YOU WILL SAY WHAT IS THE CONTROVERSY THERE?

A LOT OF MY FRIENDS DO THAT AS WELL.

I THINK THAT THESE ADS OFTEN ILLUSTRATE HOW DISCIPLINED THESE CANDIDATES ARE BECAUSE BOTH CANDIDATES WANT THE ELECTION TO BE A REFERENDUM ON THE OTHER WHICH IS WHAT THESE ADS SHOW.

WE'RE NOT SEEING A TOUTING OF A SPECIFIC PLAN OF HOW WE WILL MOVE MICHIGAN THROUGH UNCERTAIN TIMES.

IT IS SINCERELY JUST ABOUT, HERE IS HOW MY CANDIDATE OR MY OPPONENT IS DOING TERRIBLE THINGS AND WILL BRINGISH ACCOMPLISH TO RUIN.

>> AND HERE NOW IS THE HARSH REALITY ABOUT TV ADS: REPEAT, REPEAT, REPEAT, REPEAT.

THE DEMOCRATS SPENDING $14 MILLION, HERE COMEE REPUBLICAN GOVERNORS' ASSOCIATION, CAN THEY GET ENOUGH REPS ON THE AIR TO COUNTERACT WHAT THE DEMOCRATS HAVE DONE ALREADY TO MS. DIXON, THAT IS THE QUESTION?

>> NO.

THEY ARE GETTING OUTSPENT, WEEK AFTER WEEK, EVEN NOW WITH THIS RG.

AN AD BUY AND THE MARKETS ARE NOT WITH THEM.

>> GO AHEAD.

>> AND I WAS GOING TO SAY THAT THE MARKETS ARE EXPENSIVE, IT IS NOT LIKE THE RGA CAN MARKET ONLY NORTHERN MICHIGAN, THEY HAVE TO HIT THE BIGGER TV MARKETS IN OTHER COUNTIES AND ADS COST MONEY.

>> WERE YOU SURPRISED THAT THE GOVERNOR SAID THAT I WILL SERVE OUT MY FULL TERM HERE IN LANSING?

>> NO.

I THINK THAT, FIRST OF ALL, YOU HAVE TO GO WITH HER, AT HER WORD.

BECAUSE SHE IS THE ONLY PERSON THAT KNOWS.

AND YOU WOULD NOT WANT TO DARE SAY ANYTHING OTHER THAN THAT, WHEN YOU ARE RUNNING FOR REELECTION BECAUSE THAT WAS SOMETHING THAT WOULD SENDS THE WRONG MESSAGE TO THE ELECTORATE OUT THERE.

DOES IT MEAN THAT, TWO YEARS DOWN THE LINE OR, YOU KNOW, LEADING UP TO THE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION THAT IF SHE WERE TO READ THE TEA LEAVES AND SAYS I HAVE A SHOT AT HIGHER OFFICE AND EVERYONE TELLS HER THAT THE PRESIDENT WILL NOT RUN AGAIN AND THIS IS YOUR ONE SHOT TO DO IT, YOU KNOW WHAT?

WE HAVE SEEN POLITICIANS CHANGING THEIR MINDS BEFORE.

>> QUICKLY, GUYS, I HAVE TO JUMP IN AND SAY THANK YOU FOR DOING THE PROGRAM AND THANK YOU FOR HUMORING ME HERE FROM THE HOME BASE AND HOPE TO RETURN WITH ALL OF YOU IN THE STUDIO NEXT WEEK.

THANK YOU TO YOU, AND TO OUR VIEWERS.

HOPE THAT YOU HAD WATCHED THE DEBATE.

WE'LL GET THOSE NUMBERS AND FIND IT OUT DOWN THE LINE.

SEE YOU NEXT WEEK, HERE ON "OFF THE RECORD."

THANK YOU FOR TUNING IN.

>> Announcer: PRODUCTION MADE IN POSSIBLE IN PART BY MARTIN WAYMEYER, PARTNERING WITH CLIENTS THROUGH PUBLIC RELATIONS, DIGITAL MARKETING AND PUBLIC POLICY ENGAGEMENT.

LEARN MORE AT OUR WEBSITE.

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MICHIGAN PUBLIC TELEVISION STATIONS HAVE COULD TRIBUTED TO THE PRODUCTION COSTS OF "OFF THE RECORD."

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