- [Presenter] This is a production of WEDU PBS, Tampa, St. Petersburg, Sarasota.

(lively music) - Coming up right now in WEDU, after back-to-back hurricanes, the hard-hit west coast of Florida is still recovering, a process that is likely to take years.

We'll talk about the flooding and the future of homeowners insurance.

And with the election a little more than two weeks away, questions are raised about the state using taxpayer money to combat two ballot amendments.

All this and more right now on a special edition of Florida This Week.

(lively music) Welcome back.

First it was Helene hitting the Big Bend area.

Then two weeks later, Milton struck.

More than two dozen people were killed in Florida during Milton, which spawned widespread storm surge, flooding and tornadoes, catching many people off guard.

- This is like the worst type of flooding I've ever seen in my life.

Everything's straight so I've been telling my family members, yeah, everything's good, I'm fine, I'm okay.

And then the next day it just flooded everywhere, I'm like, hey guys, actually, backtrack everything I just said yesterday, that doesn't exist, this is actually pretty bad right now.

- [Rob] Helene and Milton caused so much damage that it's still being added up.

But government and private experts say each storm likely caused more than $50 billion in damage, joining the infamous ranks of Katrina, Sandy, and Harvey as super devastating disasters.

Some people lost everything.

- It's numbing.

It's been numb for the last two weeks.

- This is everything I have in the world.

So to lose all that, I lose my retirement, I lose my business, I lose my income, I lose my house.

So- - [Reporter] Your entire life savings is wrapped up in those homes?

- Yes.

- Yes.

- [Rob] According to the White House, the federal government has approved nearly $2 billion in assistance across six states to help people who were hit hard by the two storms.

Last Sunday, President Biden flew to Tampa to survey the damage.

It was his second trip to Florida in two weeks.

His motorcade took him through the devastation caused by Milton, before speaking from a hard-hit neighborhood in St. Pete Beach.

- And it's in moments like this we come together to take care of each other, not as Democrats or Republicans, but as Americans, Americans who need help, and Americans who would help you if you were in the same situation.

We are one United States.

- [Rob] There were countless stories of heroic rescues.

Nonprofits, businesses, churches, and neighbors all stepped up to help those most in need.

- We helped our neighbor, their house is gutted now 'cause the water went through their house.

They were staying with us through this storm.

So it's gotta be worse for them.

- [Reporter] It's a real moment of neighbors coming together.

- Oh, absolutely.

It was everybody helping each other.

- I think almost everyone left this time.

After Helene, it was, you're not messing with Mother Nature anymore.

Everyone's out helping each other, I'm just doing my part.

It's what I do, I cook food.

- [Rob] Some communities were and are still isolated by the heavy flooding, the blocked roadways, and in some areas, by the slow return of electricity.

Fuel for vehicles was also a problem as many people were running out.

Governor DeSantis answered the need by giving away free gasoline.

- We also have a lot of gas stations that even if they have fuel, may not be able to get the power back on.

So we've taken on a fuel mission.

We've opened three fuel depots so people can come fill up.

- Such a wonderful feeling.

It gives cold chills that people are helping each other.

That's the greatest thing you could ever have.

- [Rob] For many people, the back-to-back hurricanes altered their lives forever by damaging or destroying their homes and businesses.

The federal government has opened 10 disaster recovery field offices in Florida, including some in Hillsborough, Pinellas, Citrus, Manatee, Sarasota, and Pinellas Counties, where you can talk to a FEMA representative in person to obtain financial help.

Here's how FEMA describes what recovery help is available and how to apply.

- It's Lenisha here with an update.

If you have been affected by Hurricane Helene and you live in one of the designated areas, we want you to submit an application for FEMA assistance as soon as possible.

Even if you think that that damage is minimal, or even if you have insurance, we still want you to submit an application as you may be eligible for some additional assistance.

For example, you have a serious need for food, gas, medication, FEMA has programs to help you out with that.

Also, if you're displaced from your home currently and you're living with a friend or a family, you're staying in a hotel, FEMA can offer you some assistance to help you in that situation.

Also, if you have personal property that was damaged from the storm, so if you have a personal computer that was damaged, we offer money to help you replace that damaged computer.

And lastly, if you have damage to your home, we offer home assistance to help you with repairs to your home from the storm.

So the way that you can apply for FEMA assistance, you can call the FEMA helpline number, which is 1-800-621-3362, or you can go online at disasterassistance.gov and apply there.

- Well, more than two weeks after Milton hit, we're still seeing freshwater flooding in parts of Florida's west coast.

Many residents living near rivers, creeks, and holding ponds were caught by surprise because their neighborhoods do not have a recent history of flooding.

The 17 inches of rain that fell over parts of the Bay area have caused rivers such as the Hillsborough, Withlacoochee, Anclote and Alafia to peak at record or near-record levels causing damage to many homes for the first time.

One weather expert told National Geographic Magazine that FEMA's flood maps are out of date.

Many homes that should be labeled as high flood risks are not.

And along with her colleagues at the Tampa Bay Times, Rebecca Liebson has been covering the plight of homeowners who were caught off-guard.

Rebecca, welcome to Florida This Week.

- Hi, thank you for having me.

- Thanks for coming on.

You visited some areas were residents were caught by surprise by the flooding.

Tell us what you reported on.

- Yeah, so there were various parts of the Tampa Bay area.

I'm thinking neighborhoods in St. Petersburg like Kenwood, and then up in Lutz where people were out of these so-called flood risk zones or even out of evacuation zones and so they assumed they would be safe from flooding but then ultimately they saw multiple feet of water and saw their homes and vehicles damaged.

- And what did the residents tell you?

I mean, they were caught by surprise.

What did they say to you?

- Yeah, I mean, some of these people chose these neighborhoods to live in because they assumed they would be safe.

There wasn't a history of flooding, as you said, and they were out of an evacuation zone, you would think nothing was going to happen there.

But I think what we're learning is truly, there's nowhere in the state of Florida that isn't at some risk of flooding, especially during an event like a hurricane.

- Yeah, I was surprised to see places like Lakeland and Polk County too have surprised flooding.

So what does that say about the FEMA maps that we have that tell us where flooding might be expected?

- Right, so that quote you mentioned from National Geographic, there is some skepticism that these maps are out of date.

Although they're required to be updated somewhat regularly, I mean, the pace that our climate is changing and the increasing intensity of these storms is making it difficult for forecasters to keep up.

I mean, even a place where you are basing off the estimates looks safe, you don't know what the next storm will really bring.

- I wonder when FEMA's going to update those maps.

I mean, when you said earlier that there's no place in Florida that's safe, that's frightening.

- Yeah, I mean, of course if you're living on the coast or living in a low-lying area, you assume you're going to be at some risk.

But I mean, the way that insurance companies quantify these things, there are flood risk zones which is considered the highest risk, but technically everyone is in a flood zone of some sort.

So everyone faces some risk of flooding, just some places are considered riskier than others.

But I mean, I've been speaking with insurance professionals who are saying, really at this point, everyone in Florida should have flood insurance just because how frequent and intense these storms are getting, yet the vast majority of people do not have flood insurance.

And so when these things happen, they're not protected at all, they end up having to pay out of cost for flooding.

- Yeah, I bet they were surprised.

I mean, what do people do if they have no flood insurance?

- Yeah, I mean, if you have no flood insurance, so technically how it was explained to me is flood insurance covers any sort of damage from the ground up, so water getting in through your house from the ground.

But in most cases, if you don't have that specialized flood insurance, it really is up to you.

And a lot of people just simply cannot cover these costs.

Many of them will be forced to sell because the cost is just too high.

Even with their normal home insurance, that's not going to cover the flooding.

- Rebecca, for many years, Florida was the Wild West for developers.

That is that they could fill in wetlands and really not get any fines or anything, build too close to water and streams and rivers.

So what does it say?

I mean, can we pull back from those kind of practices, filling in wetlands and all that?

Did that contribute to the problem?

- Yeah, I mean, I think we're going to need to pull back, like you said.

These wetlands and things like mangroves, these are natural protectors against flooding, that's where the water goes to help drain and if you have people building houses on top of that.

Whereas before maybe those areas would flood and it didn't really matter because there was no one there, when you're having people building there, now all of a sudden there's a problem because someone's house has three feet of water in it.

On top of that, I think we just have outdated infrastructure in some cases.

And when you're loading up an already outdated system with even more homes, it's going to cause problems.

- And that's an argument for upgrading our storm sewer system.

I think some of these floods would overwhelm a storm sewer system, but some, if we updated the storm sewer system, that might help in some areas.

- Yeah, I think there's definitely a case to be made for that.

The thing is, to update these systems would take a ton of political will and a ton of capital so it is an uphill battle for sure.

But I think governments need to take action now to prevent further issues down the line.

I mean, what could be an expensive problem now could be even more catastrophic in the future.

So it is an investment in a safer future.

- Well, Rebecca Liebson, thanks for your reporting.

I always enjoy reading your stuff, so thanks for coming on Florida This Week.

- Thank you again.

- As we said, you can apply for FEMA help in-person.

Here's how you can find the FEMA office closest to you.

(lively music) Even before hurricanes Helene and Milton devastated Florida, many people have seen higher and higher property insurance rates, making homeowners insurance unaffordable for many.

The legislature has had several special sessions to try to fix the problem, often adopting changes advocated by insurance companies.

Lawrence Mower covers the issue of homeowners insurance.

He's part of the Tampa Bay Times Miami Herald News Bureau in Tallahassee, and joins us now.

Lawrence, nice to see you again.

- Thanks for having me, Rob.

- So do we know yet what the total damage amount was from these two hurricanes here in Florida?

- Not really.

I mean, it's too early to say really.

There's been estimates out there that this will be in the tens of billions of dollars, anywhere from, I've seen estimates over $100 billion for this.

It's really too early to say.

My understanding is that some of the federal data that these estimates rely on has not come in yet so the estimates might not be that great.

But so far it looks like for Hurricane Milton, yes, it's gonna be incredibly, there's a lot of damage, no doubt about it.

But so far it's looking like it might be about half the size of Hurricane Ian from a couple years ago.

- Okay, and Ian was what?

How big was Ian?

How much damage?

- Well, a lot, about 20 billion.

As far as state data goes, there was about 20 billion, $21 billion in insured losses.

But it had 776,000 claims filed.

So far for Milton we're about at 190,000.

By this point, Ian was about twice that.

- Okay.

So I guess everybody's worried that their insurance rates are gonna go up.

What do we know about what are the insurance companies saying about raising rates?

- Well, nothing yet about raising rates, but it is a very valid concern.

So what I've been told and what I'm hearing is that the insurance companies are largely protected from the losses here.

They buy reinsurance, basically insurance that insurance companies buy to cover these sorts of losses for hurricanes.

So yeah, they're gonna lose some money, no doubt about it, but most of that burden is gonna be shifted onto these big reinsurance companies that kind of exist in Bermuda and stuff.

And what that's gonna do is that they're gonna undoubtedly raise their rates, what they're gonna charge insurance companies.

And in Florida, insurance companies are incredibly reliant on reinsurance.

It's their biggest expense.

So when the cost of reinsurance goes up, they're gonna pass that on to policy holders.

What that will look like, we won't really know until next year probably.

But yeah, I mean I think it's a fair expectation that rates will go up.

- So are you confident that everybody's claims will be paid?

Because you reported earlier this year on a report that said that only about half the claims from last year's hurricanes were paid by the major insurance companies here in Florida.

- Yeah, that is some troubling data that a group of analysts called Weiss Ratings released earlier this year.

And we don't exactly know why.

I mean, for some of these companies like State Farm it was about like half of their claims were closed without payment.

Now why is that the case?

One of the reasons could be because the damage from storms could be from flooding, and there's always this dispute after storms, is it covered by flood insurance or homeowners insurance?

Homeowners insurance does not cover flooding.

And that's a major problem for a lot of homeowners in Florida, and certainly in the Carolinas right now.

About 20% or less of Florida homeowners have flood insurance.

And if you look at Helene, that was primarily a flooding event.

Milton appears to be kind of a half flooding, half wind event.

The tools that Floridians had to hold insurance companies accountable don't exist anymore.

You have a shorter time to file a claim now.

If you want to sue your insurance company, it's much harder, that's one of the changes the legislature made.

So, yeah, I mean, it's definitely gonna be something to watch.

- So what about Citizens Insurance?

Is the state-run Citizens Insurance companies, it's solvent based on what we know now and in the aftermath of these two storms?

- Yeah, technically it can't go insolvent because when all else fails, whether they run outta money completely, they can bond and they can also assess Floridians to pay, to basically pick up the tab.

What they're telling me so far is they're gonna be fine.

They don't expect any assessments here.

They also buy reinsurance ahead of storms and they put out a pretty big order this year for reinsurance, and that should be okay.

Another thing to note is that where Milton hit is a part of the state where there's a lot of homes that are built to the current hurricane codes.

And what I'm hearing so far is that these homes did weather the storm fairly well.

You did see a lot of wind damage on the east coast of Florida, Martin, St. Lucie counties, that area, from tornadoes, which that is definitely covered by your homeowners insurance policy.

But so far I haven't seen a ton of figures yet that indicate that Citizens is gonna have to be assessing anyone.

They think they can cover it.

- All right.

Well, Lawrence Mower, thanks a lot for joining us.

- Happy to be here.

(lively music) - Joining us on the panel right now, Mary Ellen Klas is the policy and politics columnist for Bloomberg Opinion.

Alan Clendenin is a Tampa City councilman, and a Democrat.

Adam Goodman is the Edward R. Murrow Senior Fellow at Tufts University, a political consultant, and a Republican.

Christina Diamond is the CEO of Ruth's List, and a Democrat.

And Lisa Miller is the former Deputy Insurance Commissioner for the State of Florida.

Well, welcome to all of you.

Let's talk about the hurricanes first.

Lisa, what should residents be doing right now to protect their interests and make sure that they get everything they can from their insurance companies?

- They should be having conversations with their insurance companies.

A lot of those conversations involve documenting their contents and making sure that they have, I've advised some consumers to make a spreadsheet and list all their contents in the left column, and the websites where they found to replace those contents in the right column.

So anything you can do as a consumer to make your adjusters life easier in terms of helping them get through your claims inspection is gonna be good for you as a policy holder.

- I'm wondering, should I call my contractor first if I think I have a problem with my roof or if I have a problem with the drywall in the house, should I call a contractor or carpenter first before I call my insurance company?

- I think you call your insurance company first, and immediately after that call, you call your contractor because they're gonna be hard to find so you're gonna be getting in line.

So the sooner you can get some of those contractors to come out and give you estimates, and then when the adjuster comes, you can show those estimates to the adjuster.

So you're working ahead if you're calling the artisans that need to come put your house back together and have their estimates when the adjuster arrives.

- And Lisa, a lot of people have taken their stuff out to the street, they've taken out the cabinets, they've taken out some personal items that got flooded and all that.

Should they already have pictures of all that stuff that they've taken out to tell the insurance company, this is what I lost?

- You sound like you've had a claim before.

Absolutely.

You take pictures of everything that you're taking to the street, as many as you can.

You can't take enough pictures to document your damage.

Remember, this is a story.

You are telling your claim story to someone who doesn't know you, and you want them to know every single item in your house, where the water came in or the wind came through the roof, and show them everything you think they should see so they can do an accurate and fair adjustment of what you need in return.

- Alan, you posted on Facebook a few days ago about the need to have a conversation about resiliency.

You said sea walls, acceleration of undergrounding utilities, redundancy, getting to the bottom of why gas has not flowed into gas stations, land development that contributed to urban flooding, and of course how we're gonna pay for it all.

Tell us more about why you posted that.

- Yeah, absolutely.

Because I think that the citizens really deserve an answer as to how this all has unfolded and how we got to where we are and where we're gonna go.

And I think that conversation should be inclusionary and not just held behind closed doors.

It should be an open and honest dialogue for people that live in the city about, one, what the needs actually are, what we've been doing, and what needs to happen, and again, nothing's free, how we're gonna pay for it.

- So should local governments be encouraging people to not build so close to water or not in flood zones?

And would you advocate that for the city of Tampa?

- Well, it's difficult for the city of Tampa because I mean, our downtown is in a flood zone and it's the economic driver, our airport, the west shore area, the military base, MacDill Air Force base, a lot of how we've developed the city of Tampa is in the coastal high hazard area.

And in future development and growth, we are encouraging growth outside of the coastal high hazard area.

We're in the process of redoing the land development code for the city of Tampa, and that's very much a part of the agenda of making sure that we're reducing density in areas that we wanna reduce where the highest risks are and we wanna reduce, and encouraging the developers to go to areas that are more high and dry and in our transportation corridors where if we build more density in those areas and those transportation corridors, we can also build the infrastructure to prevent some of the catastrophic flooding we saw.

- In the background of it all, this is a big discussion about climate change.

And let me go to what Governor DeSantis said at Fort Pierce this week.

He pushed back against those who blame stronger hurricanes on climate change.

- What we can say is the storm was significant, but thankfully this was not the worst-case scenario.

- [Rob] The governor was also asked whether the number of tornadoes during Milton was unusual.

DeSantis responded that, "You can go back and find tornadoes through all of human history," and then cited a history of intense hurricanes hitting Florida, including a significant number of them prior to the 1960s.

He said there is precedent for all this in history.

It is hurricane season, you are going to have tropical weather.

Adam, the governor seems to downplay the importance of climate change.

What do you think about that?

- Well, I think first of all, it's important that you understand the governor's first role in a natural disaster is to keep kind of temperatures calm and to try to reassure people that the state, in this case the local authorities, are on top of things and they go after it.

I think that's rule number one.

And we've seen great examples of that going back a number of governors to Charlie Crist and Rick Scott.

So that's what I take away from that.

We were spared what we know could have been even more catastrophic when they were talking about the storm surge and 15 feet and maybe going over the walls that had been built around Tampa General and all the horror stories.

We really kind of got away with a big one here.

But I want to build on something that Alan said, and Alan, what you shared with us was reassuring.

When you talk about infrastructure now, you think about things you can see like a road or a bridge, right?

But the infrastructure that now is in play in Florida more than ever, and certainly in West Florida to what we just survived, is what you can't see, it's what's underneath the ground.

So for instance, in Tampa they're talking about resurfacing roads.

Well, it's one thing to resurface a road, we all want nice clean, smooth roads to drive on, but if you're not fixing what's underneath the roads and you are in an area that we just saw, there are certain areas that were in the C flood zone that got demolished, not A or B, C. And people were being evacuated from A and B, C got demolished from flash floods because the drainage and infrastructure was insufficient.

I think that now we have to take a very serious look at those kinds of efforts.

And I think what the governor and the state can do, what they're already doing to some extent in terms of reinvesting more and more monies, a lot of funds in flood control, in keeping our water precious and pure, that they're gonna have to take a even harder look at this and do even more to reassure the people like myself that went through a very harrowing experience over the last week, that this won't repeat itself, even if it's a tropical storm versus a category five.

- Well, upgrading the infrastructure would be hugely expensive.

But Christine, let me ask you, the governor's not giving an inch, he gave several comments about climate change this week.

He was asked at one point at a press conference when Floridians will hear the word climate change.

And he said this, "The chance of me virtue signaling for people in the media is zero.

So do not count on that.

I don't subscribe to your religion."

The governor is not subscribing to climate change.

- That's unfortunate because I think the majority of Floridians recognize and see that something is going on.

We do need to be prepared for more of these storms.

Every year I build in my budget knowing that in October I'm probably gonna have to evacuate with my family.

And this is not something that we should be taking lightly.

And as these families are rebuilding and getting back on track, we need to be rebuilding in a way and preparing that next year there's gonna be more storms and they're gonna be stronger, and the data shows that we're on the projection for that.

We can't be burying our heads in the sands and ignoring climate change, we have to address it, and this should be a top priority for the governor and our legislature.

- Lisa, does the fact that Florida has some of the highest insurance rates in the country, does that mean that insurance companies are acknowledging that climate change is real?

- Let me tell you what they are acknowledging.

They are looking at communities that are strengthening their infrastructure, and they're doing that because when that infrastructure fails, the structures around it collapse.

And we need to strengthen this infrastructure.

Look, folks, everything goes back to insurance.

Every structure you have, every car you drive, your life insurance, your health insurance, our activities of daily living are unfortunately structured around some kind of insurance.

It comes right straight here to the heart.

And we as communities have got to reinforce these, our communities so that the structures that are in them can remain resilient.

And the insurance industry is watching that.

And they want to know that community leaders are doing everything they can to reinforce their surrounding and built environment.

- And Lisa, so that means that insurance companies are not paying attention to climate change, they're only paying attention to how hardened a community is?

- Well, I think it goes hand in hand because if you are not paying attention to your resiliency, then you're throwing the concern about increased severe storm activity to the wind.

No one's doing that in the insurance industry.

We have very sophisticated catastrophe models.

There are four of them in the world that work very vigorously since Hurricane Andrew and their creation to look at the risk of loss of a certain community and a certain track of a storm.

And we as communities have to step up and make ourselves stronger against Mother Nature so that when that severe storm hits we're ready and the insurance industry can withstand the loss.

- Alan, do you think that insurance increases, the rate increases are an indication that the insurance companies acknowledge that climate change is a real problem?

- Absolutely.

And I think just with the insurance industry how a city, their code, how they're handling construction affects the rates that the people in that community pay.

We have some of the lowest in Tampa actually because of the rules that we've put into place.

Just like our bond ratings, everything that a municipality does has a positive effect.

And one of the things that I wanted to hit on 'cause I heard what the governor said about this wasn't the worst-case scenario.

Okay, so in the bigger picture, maybe not, but tell that to the Gonzalezes that I toured their house that it wasn't the worst-case scenario when they lost everything.

It was a very modest house with a working family of a mom and dad and three kids, and they lost everything they had in freshwater flooding in an area that wasn't supposed to flood.

So for many families in our community and across the state of Florida, this was the worst-case scenario.

- Mary Ellen, over the last 40 years or so, hurricanes have played into elections.

They played into the 1992 election, they also played into Rick Scott's election for governor.

Talk about that for a moment in terms of how well politicians addressed the problem of recovery.

- Well, I think to get to your point a little bit about climate change, things have evolved since 1992 when Hurricane Andrew hit.

So I think for politicians not to address the cause of these hurricanes, I think that's putting their head in the sand.

But when it comes to the impact of these hurricanes on the political system, there are thousands of people who have lost their homes, they've lost their addresses, there needs to be flexibility, and that has happened.

I mean, thankfully because Florida has gone through this so much, we have learned that we can't just, first of all, FEMA needs its act together.

We have a hurricane, a machine that is a well-oiled machine when it comes to responding to them and recovery from them.

And part of that process in Florida has included our elections governance system.

And so we know that you have to give these communities flexibility.

Back in 1992, George H.W.

Bush went from winning a 22% landside in the polls to a two-point victory in Florida in the aftermath of Andrew.

And likely this contributed to his losing to Carter, or I'm sorry, to Clinton at the time.

Since then, when his son Jeb Bush became governor, we certainly responded with flexibility and offered people the kind of options they needed to make hurricanes more, just because you've lost everything, you shouldn't also lose your vote in an election.

And that's definitely become easier.

Other states are learning.

We're watching that there isn't as much flexibility happening in places like North Carolina and Georgia as they probably should have, but we've figured this out at least.

- Governor DeSantis is not up for reelection, and he's been around the state doing a lot of press conferences.

Rick Scott is up for reelection, he's been around the state doing a lot of press conferences.

We haven't seen Donald Trump in the state addressing the issue of the hurricane disaster.

President Bush, or President Biden rather, has been here twice.

What do you make of that, Mary Ellen?

- Well, I think it's pretty evident that Trump wants to criticize Biden-Harris administration, and that's why he's been showing up critical of FEMA in North Carolina.

However, I think DeSantis is trying to be sure, and Scott, perhaps, is trying to be sure he's not also critical of FEMA's response in Florida because both of them need to give the impression that things are working out here.

Because it is a partnership between the states and the federal government as far as that goes.

- Adam, do you think that President Trump or former President Trump should be touring the state and addressing the disaster?

- He should be addressing the disaster but not touring the state.

Look, I don't like it when a politician decides to come in for a photo op in the midst of a disaster or a tragedy.

And we know what it is.

We know that, and I think Kamala Harris learned a lesson or two, frankly, in the aftermath of Helene about how to be very, very sensitive and careful about how you insert yourself into a situation where people are really desperate and need help.

They don't need hyperbole, they don't need a speech, and they don't need promises, they need help and they need it fast.

So I think the fact that President Trump did not do that in Florida was very important.

In fact, as you know, Rob, he started a GoFundMe effort to help victims of Helene, I think that also is extending into Milton as he did to the victims of what happened in Butler, Pennsylvania.

I think that's an appropriate response for someone that is not in elective office right now as opposed to a candidate trying to score a point on the backs of a disaster.

- And what do you make of Rick Scott's tours around the state?

Has that helped his campaign, his reelection campaign?

- Well, Rick Scott, we all remember him wearing the Navy cap.

I mean, how do you associate anything with Rick Scott without that cap on, especially when the chips are on the table?

I think that's appropriate because he is a part of the federal government, an elected member of the US Senate, and can do things to try to make sure that funds and relief are appropriately and hopefully speedily on their way.

That is, I think, appropriate.

But for a candidate who has no other business being in a disaster zone other than scoring a point in the polls or scoring an interview with the local media, I don't like that, I don't think anyone likes that.

And so I think that's the difference between those two situations.

- And Christina, that's a problem for Debbie Mucarsel-Powell who's running against Rick Scott because she doesn't really have a role in government and recovery, and so her profile is much smaller in this time period that we're having these two hurricanes.

- Sure.

Well, she's still out there campaigning and doing hurricane relief.

So many places and counties in our state were affected by both hurricanes.

I know she's out there helping those communities and being out there talking about the issues.

There's so many issues to talk about in Florida right now.

And so yes, Rick Scott has been out there and helping people, but so has Debbie Mucarsel-Powell in her own way in talking about a number of issues that are important to us in Florida.

I think the reality is though is I'm from Pinellas County, our county was hit very hard, people don't want to talk about politics right now.

This is about helping these communities.

They don't care if they're getting help from FEMA or from the state, they just need significant help.

And when you have these politicians going back and forth, maybe not taking phone calls or submitting information in time, that's really upsetting to those who were affected when they just need both entities, Democrats and Republicans working together in this moment.

The political discussion during this time I think is just so off-putting when real people are hurting and trying to rebuild their lives.

- Okay, well we're gonna move on to our next topic.

And Lisa Miller, thanks a lot for coming on and talking about the insurance industry.

Adam, Marry Ellen, Christina, and Alan are staying with us.

The DeSantis administration is using tax dollars to try to defeat two proposed amendments that appear on the November 5th ballot.

They are Amendments 3 and 4.

Amendment 3 would legalize recreational marijuana for adults 21 years and older, and allow individuals to possess up to three ounces of marijuana.

Amendment 4 would legalize abortion until viability.

Florida law defines viability as the stage of fetal development when the life of a fetus is sustainable outside the womb through standard medical procedures.

The DeSantis administration is using state tax dollars to oppose both amendments.

It has threatened TV stations that run pro-Amendment 4 ads criminal charges, and sent state workers to anti-Amendment 4 campaign events.

So far, the courts, including the Florida Supreme Court, have declined to hear challenges over the use of tax money to advocate for one side.

Here's one campaign ad paid for by the state which is running on TV stations around Florida.

- [Presenter] Florida cares about women and families.

Last year, Florida provided nearly $500 million to support pregnant women and their families.

No woman can go to jail for having an abortion.

And abortions are available before a child's heartbeat is detected and in cases of rape or incest, and at all points in pregnancy to save the life and health of the mother.

For accurate information about all your options, visit our website, because Florida cares.

- Christina, is that ad true?

And what do you think of the state using money to take a side on an election issue?

- Floridians should be livid that their taxpayer money is going towards these no campaigns on Amendment 3 and Amendment 4.

As early of this morning, it looks like about $20 million in taxpayer funds has been used to fight these two amendments that actually show, polling-wise, look like they may pass, and so they're very popular.

It seems like at every step of the way, the governor and the legislature have done everything they can to fight these amendments, but using taxpayer money to fight these is wildly inappropriate, and Floridians should just be livid that this is happening.

- Adam, what did you think of the ad, and what did you think of using taxpayer money?

Is it right to use taxpayer money to campaign for an amendment?

- Well, I have two answers to that.

One is there's always a lot of discussion about the use of taxpayer dollars for any kind of ad, PSA or otherwise, by any public official during campaign season in particular, right?

That's always been something that's been highly discussed, debated, controversial, et cetera.

I personally am not comfortable as Christina just voiced about taxpayer dollars going into what seems more clearly to be a campaign-oriented objective.

You can argue on the side of those who are behind those that they're doing this to try to make sure that information is out there.

You could argue against that, this is an inappropriate use of taxpayer dollars.

These are two amendments though, Rob, that are gonna define, in a way, not just the way that the country looks at Florida, but also the way the Floridians look at themselves.

And I think that's an even bigger topic.

And these are two issues that are not without great emotion and great debates.

And we've come a long way in this state that not long ago, as you recall, put on as an amendment into the Constitution, a ban on same-sex marriage.

That was back in the 90s and it passed pretty comfortably.

And now, not all that long later, this state has really evolved.

And I think the referendum, both referendums, are gonna be kind of a exhibit A and exhibit B in 2024 of just where the state of Florida is and where they're moving.

- Mary Ellen, I'm wondering about groups like the ACLU have filed a lawsuit against the state paying for these ads, and I'm wondering what do we know about the legality of the state using money to campaign against amendments?

Is it legal?

And talk about historically, has it been done before?

- Well, it comes down to a pretty basic question, and that is when US District Judge Mark Walker yesterday sent his ruling, wrote his ruling, released it, and he used some very basic words.

He basically said, "To keep it simple for the state of Florida, it's the First Amendment, stupid."

Now he put a temporary restraining order on the DeSantis administration's brazen attempt to use taxpayer money to defeat an amendment.

And this is definitely illegal, it violates the First Amendment.

So we don't even have to get into whether it violates our comfort with having taxpayer money spent in a way we don't agree with.

And the other thing that I think is worth pointing out here is what always happens when Republicans, I think, disagree with something or realize that they've been caught, is we get this what about it, and we've got DeSantis saying, oh yeah, we always have tornadoes and hurricanes, we always have taxpayer money spent in a campaign.

This is an order of magnitude that far exceeds anything we've ever seen.

And I think it is outraging Republicans and Democrats alike.

And I think that we're gonna continue to see more court action if the governor continues to persist with these things.

- Mary Ellen, Republicans around the country since Roe was overturned have said, look, let's let the states decide whether or not people want to have abortion free and legal.

What's your take on this governor and this Republican party in the state of Florida working against this amendment if they say it's up to the states to decide?

- Yeah, it's just sheer hypocrisy.

Donald Trump cannot be out there saying, you know, we really just did what people wanted, we gave it back to the states.

And then if you notice, the only states that are pushing back when voters decide they wanna have a choice and they don't like many of these abortion bans that Republicans, it's the Republican legislatures across the country and Republican governors that are filing suit, trying to undermine having the voters in these states decide.

This is not representative democracy.

I mean, if the governor really wants to know what his constituents in Florida believe, why doesn't he let this, have an open debate, let the amendment either rise or fall on its merits, and let it be at that?

Instead he's decided he's going to try and undermine it in a really unprecedented and I think dangerous way.

- So the battle over these abortion ads has become really fierce.

The Florida Department of Health has sent a cease and desist letter to at least two Florida TV stations, telling those stations to take down an ad in favor of the amendment and threatening prosecution of those TV stations if they do not take down the ads.

Let's play the ad that the state of Florida's complaining about.

- When I saw the tumor on the MRI, my first thought was, am I gonna be able to see my daughter again?

(gentle music) The doctors knew if I did not end my pregnancy, I would lose my baby, I would lose my life, and my daughter would lose her mom.

Florida has now banned abortion, even in cases like mine.

Amendment 4 is gonna protect women like me.

We have to vote, Yes.

- This is something that Mary Ellen referred to the Federal Judge Mark Walker temporarily barred the DeSantis administration from intimidating and coercing television stations to air that ad in support of Amendment 4 which would bar interference on abortion.

But that restraining order remains in effect until only October 29th.

So Alan, what do you make of the state going after TV stations that run a pro-Amendment 4 ad?

- Well, several things are happening here.

One, how anybody can hear a story like that and not get goosebumps and not understand where the place of government is and where it shouldn't be, and that is in these healthcare decisions for women.

This is such a fundamental, I mean, I love the judge's statement of this is the symbol, it's the First Amendment, stupid.

I mean, she just said that, quoted from the judge.

This is something that is such fundamentally American way of life, and I think the taxpayers in the state of Florida should be outraged that the governor is spending this money.

I think a real Republican fiscal conservative would be outraged, whether you support or, you don't want the government paying for pro or anti ads for anything, that's just not the rule of government.

And then they've taken it one step further.

They're so unhappy with this amendment on the Constitution that Ron DeSantis' election version of the SS has now proposed trying to take away the rights of Florida citizens from having these types of ballot initiatives to change the Constitution.

So they're not happy enough with just taking away the rights of women to choose their healthcare, they wanna take away the rights of the citizens of the state of Florida from petitioning government and changing the laws.

- It's already hard to change the Constitution- - They made it more difficult.

- Because you need 60% of the vote to get it passed.

- Yeah, they made it more difficult.

Now they wanna make it even more difficult.

And again, this is all coming from the Secret Service type of police force that Ron DeSantis set up after the last elections.

- Adam going after TV stations is unusual.

I mean, TV stations have aired all sorts of ads forever.

To say to a TV station to stop, isn't that really unusual?

- Happens all the time.

So as a media consultant, I can't tell you how often I've been on a campaign and the other side said something that was patently absurd, untrue, false, et cetera, and a letter came in from our side, from our attorney into the TV stations and vice versa.

And it was back and forth.

Rarely will television stations make any moves 'cause they don't wanna, A, have any impact that they could be blamed for in terms of moving an election one way or the other.

B, frankly, they have a profit motive of wanting to keep the ads up and running.

I mean, it's interesting to see, I don't know if you saw the new policy from Google that said, we're gonna continue with all political advertising until the day after the election then we're stopping, right?

As opposed to stopping now, they're gonna stop after they've made all their money.

In terms of what the TV stations should or shouldn't do, should they be the judge and jury here?

Of course not.

But the bigger thing here, and I hope we, this is the most important thing to cover about the abortion issue, not just in Florida but elsewhere.

Abortion's being used all over the country by Democrats almost exclusively to absolutely blister Republicans, whether they are pro-life, whether they're pro-choice, and they're using the word that everyone fears, and I understand why, and we all would.

The word is ban.

When you talk about a ban and you hear in ads, Rob, national abortion ban, you talked about all the federal candidates that are running.

There are Democrats that are hitting Republicans on being in favor of a national abortion ban, even if they're in favor of state law and supporting state law that allows up to the point of viability or even beyond, the fact that there are any limitations that are being suggested has been redefined by Democrats around the country as a national abortion ban.

And I am really upset about it because what they're doing is they're scaring the hell out of people.

It is a conscious political callous move to scare not only women, but everybody.

And frankly, it's working.

It's working to some extent in a lot of swing races I'm looking at and been a part of around the country, and it is wrong.

But it's not the television station's role to be the arbiter here.

Hopefully the final decision maker is gonna be the common sense and good taste of people.

- Okay.

But Adam, it's different when a private entity says to a TV station take off that ad.

When the government says to a TV station take off that ad, that's a whole new ball game.

But let me ask Christina, do you think Adam's right?

Are Democrats unnecessarily scaring Republicans or the pro-choice people unnecessarily scaring the country and saying that Republicans want a total ban?

- Well, a six-week ban, which we have in Florida, is pretty much a near total abortion ban.

I mean, most women don't know they're pregnant at six weeks, let alone getting an appointment with a doctor within six weeks.

So yes, in Florida you could say there's an abortion ban here.

And I agree, women are upset, spouses are upset.

This is why when we see the polling on Amendment 4, it actually polls really well that the people want these decisions to be personal.

And these decisions are so complex.

I mean, we see it in the ads.

Everybody has a different stories on why they need certain kinds of healthcare.

And these are decisions that need to be between the spouse, the physician, their own families.

We don't need politicians being involved in these decisions.

- I was talking to a Republican pollster the other day who said that people whose top concern is abortion is only 12% in the state of Florida, nationwide it might be a little bit higher.

But they say that it's the economy and inflation and those kind of issues, those are the top concerns.

- Sure.

But when it comes to Amendment 4 and how people feel, whether that's a yes vote or a no vote, the polling shows that Amendment 4 is likely to pass because they agree they don't want government deciding these kind of intricate decisions with healthcare.

- Okay, well, before we go, what other news stories should we be paying attention to?

And Mary Ellen, let's start with you.

The other big story of the week.

- Well, I think what's happened with these lawsuits as it relates to these, the next one to come down is whether or not there will be a stay on the governor's use of the Department of Education for these ads that are trying to counter the medical marijuana, I'm sorry, the marijuana, general use of marijuana amendment.

I think that is the next thing to fall, and we'll keep an eye on that in the coming days.

- Okay.

Alan, your other big story of the week.

- Yeah, I'm just as frustrated as everybody else in the west coast of Florida about the lack of availability of gasoline after the storms.

And I think that's still a story because long before the storms, Governor DeSantis stood before us and was with Pomp and Circumstance, doing the tours of his preparedness.

And then after the storm, standing in front of a staged pile of debris that his staff had put there to make it look more catastrophic, talking about how well-prepared they were and how they're gonna stage all this fuel.

And then when the storm hit, there was no fuel to be found.

And I think that it was a complete failure.

As a matter of fact, so much of a failure that Senator Scott, Rick Scott, Republican, was quoted as saying, "We finally have our gas back in the gas stations, and it took a ridiculous amount of time."

I mean, so that's coming from in-house.

- All right, Adam, your other big story of the week.

- Just really a credit to almost every public leader out there who had to stand tall in the face of the storm.

From Mayor Jane Castor in Tampa, all the way up to the governor.

And even I give credit to President Joe Biden.

I think everyone acted the way they should have.

They showed concern, they showed togetherness despite some of the meandering from that.

And the other news story, which thank goodness we have in Tampa in particular, is the Lightning are off to an undefeated three-and-0 start.

We need a shot in the arm now like no one's business.

And thank goodness they and the Bucks are off to a good start.

Makes us feel just a little bit better in the face of such sobering tragedy.

- Yeah, the Bucks had a super game against New Orleans last week.

And Christina, your other big story of the week.

- And I think we all need to be looking at what the governor and the legislature is gonna do around property insurance.

We've heard basically a message of, well, everyone just needs to buy flood insurance.

Well, people can't afford the original property insurance that they have, the solution to this can't just be, well, buy more insurance.

It's too expensive, Florida housing, it's completely outta control.

We need to find a way to fix this and the governor and the legislature need to come back together and help find a solution to this.

- And you want a special session?

- I don't know, but we might need one.

- All right.

- We might need one.

A real special session to address this.

- And my story of the week is the US Census Bureau is out with a new study that says that fewer retirees are moving to Florida.

That's big news because retirees are one of the engines of the state economy.

The net number of people moving to Florida dropped by 50% from 2022 to 2023.

And more people are leaving the state, that number was a half million people who left last year.

For folks who think Florida's already overcrowded, this is good news for politicians who have been crowing about the number of people moving here.

It shows the state is not as appealing as it once was.

That's it for us this week.

Thanks to our guests, Mary Ellen Klas, Alan Clendenin, Adam Goodman, and Christina Diamond.

If you have comments about this program, please send them to us at ftwwedu.org.

Our show is now available as a podcast.

And from all of us here at WEDU, stay safe, help each other, and have a great weekend.

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