Speaker 1: On the record is brought to you by Steve and Adele do follow Speaker 2: San Antonio is a fast growing fast moving community with something new happening every day.

And that's why each week we go on the record with the Newsmakers who are driving this change.

Then we gather at the reporters round table to talk about the latest news stories with the journalists behind those stories.

Join us now as we go on Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to Kaler ends on the record.

I'm Joey Palacios of Texas public radio filling in for Randy Beamer tonight.

He has the night off first, we're going into the complex topic of redistricting and how Texas has political maps could change as well as the lawsuits that have been filed against those maps.

We're talking with St. Mary's university law, professor Albert Kauffman, Kauffman served as senior litigating attorney for the Mexican-American legal defense and educational fund for 20 years.

Mr. Compton, thanks for joining us tonight.

My pleasure.

So, so the, the maps are drawn, um, and it seems like every time the political maps, especially for Congress in Texas are, are put out to the public and they're signed by the governor.

They're almost immediately followed by a lawsuit happened 10 years ago, and it's happening now where MALDEF is now suing on behalf of LULAC and several other organizations help us set the landscape what's happening right now with these lawsuits.

Speaker 2: Well, there've been lawsuits after every redistricting, at least back to 1970 in Texas, uh, because the legislature keeps discriminating against Mexican-Americans and African-Americans and redistricting, and, and then whichever political parties in power draws districts for on their own behalf, rather than on behalf of the people in the communities.

Speaker 1: So w w w what exactly is happening?

You say that there's discrimination happening and the way these maps are drawn, um, that go against, uh, Latinos and people of color.

What type of discrimination is happening, like in what form is that taking?

Speaker 2: Well, the form is taking is that there could be many more effective Latino districts and many more effective African-American districts and Asian-American districts, uh, and the legislature simply didn't draw them.

Uh, they didn't really try.

They purposely drew the districts that weakened minority voting rights.

And, uh, as a result, there will be lawsuits.

I think MALDEF's already filed a lawsuit regarding these plans.

Speaker 1: Can you give me some examples of the maps that we're looking at right now?

Um, because, you know, we we've seen Texas has population growth, we're getting a couple of extra seats.

Um, so from what you have seen in the maps, where, where are you seeing some of the, the, the issues that MALDEF and these are the organizations are raising?

Speaker 2: Well, first of all, overall, the argument is that there are many more effective Latino and African-American districts that could be drawn legislature didn't draw.

And the, uh, Congress has section two, the voting rights act, which says you can't do that.

You can't minimize or cancel out the voting rights of, of minority groups, people of color, and that's what's happened.

So there it's almost every area of Texas that Speaker 1: Occurs.

I think some of the most egregious examples are in the Dallas Fort worth area, uh, and Euston where the maps really looked like jigsaw puzzles, because they purposely did this.

They packed the minority populations into the existing minority districts in order to strengthen Republicans and white districts.

And that's especially happened in DFW.

And so what does this end up doing to the legislative bodies?

Um, what does that do with the type of representatives that we see?

I mean, if they were drawn differently, could we see a completely different makeup of the legislature?

And Texas is a house?

Speaker 2: Uh, I think in Texas house districts had be very close to, even if you drew the districts fairly and the congressional delegation, there'd be several more minority members of Congress, uh, and more Democrats in Congress.

And that really affects policy.

I mean, I used to work in education area and we constantly were struggling for poor districts, and we were struggling against, uh, people in the richer districts and the Anglo districts that controlled the system.

So it affects education and it affects criminal law.

Uh, it affects welfare to pics health policy.

All of these things are affected by the people represented in these districts and elected from the districts.

And if you could control the districts, you can control the legends.

Speaker 1: So walk us through the process of this, the way this could happen through the courts.

It was filed in a federal courts in El Paso.

Um, then it may end up going to the fifth circuit and more than likely it will, of course, and then probably up to the Supreme court.

Um, so how is this process going to work?

Speaker 2: Well, th the plaintiffs will have some burden to show that they can draw more compact, effective districts for minorities, and from what I've read of their pleadings, I don't think they're going to have any trouble doing that.

They're going to be able to show you could draw much better plans that did not discriminate against Latinos and African-Americans and Asians.

So they'll win that part.

Um, the second part is they have to show that there's a pattern of polarized voting, where people of various ethnic groups vote together, uh, and that's going to be easy to show.

And then they'll have to show that the white population in Texas, uh, votes together and defeats the minority candidates, and that'll be fairly easy to show.

So that'll be at the district court level.

And I, I find it hard to believe that that the district courts here would uphold these Texas systems.

So if they strike them, then of course it would be appealed to the fifth circuit almost immediately into the Supreme court.

And I have no idea what would happen there.

Uh, but the law is still strongly for, uh, the plaintiffs in these areas.

Speaker 1: And so do you, so you feel like th th there's, there's a valid case with these little ones?

Speaker 2: I think it's a valid case in regard to all these plans, that congressional plan, the state Senate plan, the state house plan, and even the state board of education plan, uh, those districts were not drawn, uh, with respect to minority voting strength Speaker 1: St. Mary's university law, professor Albert Kauffman.

Thanks for joining us.

It's been Speaker 2: My pleasure.

Thank you, Joey Speaker 1: And now we're talking with rod Sanchez, assistant city manager for the city of San Antonio.

Now, rod, you oversee quite a number of departments that affect people's day-to-day lives here.

You oversee public works, you oversee transportation, which we're going to end up seeing a lot within the 2020 bond package.

And so what I was hoping we could talk about today is the bond process.

It's a once in five years project.

So there are a lot of projects that go into this things are really just now getting started as to project selection.

So tell us where we are with the bond and what people can expect to be happening over the next few months.

Absolutely.

You're right.

It's something that's very exciting.

It's something we do every, every five years.

Uh, this will be our biggest bond package bond program ever, uh, looking at about $1.2 billion in projects.

And as you said, we're just getting started, you know, right now we're, we're working with city council on the different propositions.

What's that going to be six of them?

And we're deciding how big each of those propositions will be.

Uh, we're working with the council real closely on which projects to include within those propositions.

And then starting next week, we're going to start meeting with these bond committees.

There'll be five bond committees, you know, one for each of the propositions.

And we're going to start talking about projects with them.

We're going to vet the projects, why they're needed, what they will do, what impact they will have on the different parts of our city.

And we're going to get feedback from the committee.

Uh, we're gonna invite the public as well to attend.

Uh, so it's going to be just listening sessions, feedback, massaging, tweaking, and it, you know, at the end of these three months, you know, come January, the bond, uh, committees are gonna make a recommendation to council on what they think the bond package will look like.

And in January council gets another look at it, you know, they're gonna say, okay, this is, you know, we saw these projects before went to the bond committee.

This is a recommendation and council will put their final touches on it.

And then it's off to the voters in may.

So very exciting time for San Antonio, right.

You know, you mentioned this going to be the biggest bond the city has ever had.

It's $1.2 billion and it's for 2022.

And if I remember correctly, uh, proposition one of the propositions, the street maintenance, I think is around $445 million, correct me if I'm wrong in that.

Well, you know, we, we, we heard council, we've had to be settled to counts.

We heard from them, or they want to a little bit more in there.

So it's going to be closer to 480 million.

Uh, that'll go into the, And so how are these streets project specifically going to be decided?

You know, you mentioned the committees, you're you, you, you have a ballpark number.

So there are streets that you're looking at.

What's going to be the process in deciding, you know, who's street is going to get a big portion of, of this We've asked staff, we have looked at this, our staff lives here, we work here.

We're aware of all the challenges that each of our streets have.

So, you know, based on that, we we've put a list of things that need to be addressed.

We've talked to council, people, council, people have told us, these are our priorities for our district.

You know, they they're fresh, fresh off the campaign trail.

They've been listening to their constituents.

So, you know, they're, they're saying these are the streets we have to address.

So that's how we start with, we start with what we know we need to do.

And then after that, it's, it's go to the bond committee and let's hear, you know, the constituents let's hear from the citizens of San Antonio who live here and drive on the streets, you know, what they want.

So it's a real public engagement process where we, we fine tune this and decide, you know, what do we want to put before the voters, You know, beyond streets, there's also drain projects.

There are parks projects, there are facilities projects, specifically city facilities, and then public safety facilities.

Um, and I know this isn't necessarily your wheelhouse.

So for the second time, the city is including housing.

Um, and it's, uh, right now it's think it's around $150 million and that could change.

Uh, can you talk about, you know, what the city would be using and, and this housing port, Well, about 150, about 115 million we heard from council, that's a good number.

So it looks like that's what it's going to be, but it's going to be, you know, everything from preservation of housing, because a lot of housings are, you know, the houses are in decay.

So it's going to be preservation.

This is going to be new construction, both of single family and multifamily rental assistance for folks.

And then, you know, we, the homelessness is starting to become an issue in San Antonio.

So, you know, some money will go towards that and how we can, you know, put a dent in that problem.

So it's a, it, it's new, it's fresh, uh, looking forward to hear, you know, from the bond committee on what this package will look like, okay, This is going to touch pretty much every corner of the city.

Cause I remember in 2017, uh, for the last bond, there was a, I remember I heard a few times that people were only a few miles away from a bond project.

Like it was, felt like it was one almost on every street corner.

Is that kind of what we're going to end up seeing with the 2022 bond?

Well, we don't know the file package yet, but yes.

I mean, there's, there are drainage project street projects, park projects, uh, in every single council district.

So, so yes, every, every council district will get something, uh, 30 facilities.

There's probably only like about 17 in this proposal.

So, so there's a little bit more widespread, but your streets, your parks, your drainage, every council district will get them.

So for people who want to chime into this, what, what do they do?

Cause you know, you have the committee's meeting, they're actually going to start meeting next week.

Um, so if somebody wants to say, you know, this project is very important to me, how can they tell the city that Please please show up to these meetings and make your thoughts known to us.

That's one way you can also contact your council person.

You can send us emails as well.

We're going to set up a bond, a website, a flow you'll have an opportunity to, to chime in through there.

But I guess a very, you know, we want to hear from the public these next three months, it's going to be overload on public engagement.

So we encourage everybody to show up to these meetings and send us your inputs and this your thoughts, you know, what do you want this bond project to be for you?

All right.

Rod Sanchez, assistant city manager for the city of San Antonio.

Thanks for your time.

Thank you.

We're now joined by Dr. Mike Flores, chancellor of the Alamo colleges district.

Dr. Flores.

Thanks for coming to on the record.

Thank you for having me.

So what we wanted to talk to you about today is the state of journalism at San Antonio college.

A lot of people, myself included in the journalism community, uh, graduated from San Antonio college are participated in the ranger.

Um, but from what we understand that the ranger is going to cease operation it's after 95 years of being at San Antonio college.

Can you tell us about why that decision was made?

Speaker 2: Sure.

So I think, um, uh, you know, what, uh, started was a story over two weeks ago, there was reported actually on the ranger and it's attributable to, uh, several different factors.

So the program coordinator, uh, reported that, uh, one, there was low enrollment and student journalism courses at San Antonio college.

The other, because of the pandemic was that there were less, uh, stories and events to cover in person.

So for the student journalists, and then, um, as part of that, a third is a consideration of the three faculty members, um, and the journalism department retiring in December.

Uh, so that allows, I think us, um, obviously to look at, uh, what we're facing, which is an inflection point for the ranger and for student journalism at San Antonio college.

Speaker 1: Now there was a statement put out saying that there was the media at San Antonio college is basically to start evolving.

What is that process going to look like?

Because San Antonio college is probably one of the most affordable options for young journalists to get their start.

Um, and so what, what is the pathway forward that y'all are looking at?

Speaker 2: Well, as you mentioned in your introduction, um, you know, San Antonio college and the ranger student newspaper in particular is celebrating 95 years.

So our intent is to ensure that it celebrates a century plus of student journalism at SAC, and that we also afford the opportunity to individuals from the other four colleges within the Alamo colleges district, um, to look at journalism and communications in particular.

So we know, and, and the field that, um, and we want to prepare our students, not only for print, but also to look at radio television and in particular digital.

So we want to prepare them for that experience going forward beginning in January 22, we want to be able to learn from, um, individuals, professionals in the field like yourself and others that we've heard from over the past couple of weeks, um, and build a new journalism experience for students at San Antonio college.

And in particular at the other five colleges, Speaker 1: It's interesting that you mentioned that because the way that people consume news consume information, consume media in general has evolved so much just over the last 10 years.

So many people get their news and information online, right?

So many people get it from, um, from just, you know, a multitude of sources.

A lot of people necessarily may not wait for the 10 o'clock newscast now.

So I'm, I'm really interested in hearing on how the Alamo colleges are preparing the next wave of journalists, the future journalists that are going to be coming through and, and, and adapting to the way that people consume information now.

Speaker 2: Well, and I, I think that that's what provides us with an opportunity.

So, um, looking at, uh, the ranger in particular, looking at in fact enhancing the relationship that exists just even on San Antonio college campus, between the radio television film faculty and the journalism faculty, um, enhancing that collaboration even further preparing for those journalists also to, uh, film, and also to be able to look at social media and digital media, um, Northwest Vista college for instance, has a robust, um, digital media, uh, production program.

Northeast Lakeview has a social media program that they just launched a couple of years ago.

And then we have other student interests that may exist at St Phillips in Palo Alto college.

So one is how do we build on a solid foundation for the RTF program at SAC journalism program at SAC as well, and be able to provide opportunity to the other 70% of our students that are going to the other four colleges leverage the professional experience of our faculty at the four other college to collaborate.

We know that media, um, as adults, most of the media that we consume, as you mentioned, is on the screen.

So it's through social media.

It's also being able to listen in and subscribe to podcasts.

It's also being able to engage directly with journalists and with subject matter experts in the field.

So I think that that's what, um, you know, the 96 plus year looks like that's what, um, we owe our students as well as to be able to provide them with that experience.

So they're able build on print, they're able to go into radio TV and especially into digital Speaker 1: Media.

So it's an evolution process, an evolution as Speaker 2: Well said.

So Speaker 1: Thank you, Joe.

Okay.

So the ranger is, is that it's going to it's there will still be journalism options for people that are going through the Alamo colleges.

That's what's most critical.

Right.

So, all right, Dr. Flores, thank you so much for joining us today.

Thank you, Joey, for having me now for our reporters round table today, we're talking with Scott Huddleston staff writer for the San Antonio express news.

Scott, thanks for coming back again, Joey.

Hi.

So, um, there may be some discrepancies now at the Alamo, according to some historians specifically regarding slavery.

And in fact, there's a story that you wrote just a few days ago regarding a man named, uh, John who, um, who is believed to potentially have been a slave at the Alamo, but now there might be some question about that.

So walk us through.

Yeah, yeah.

As you know, that the issue of slavery has been very controversial as it relates to the Alamo.

And, um, I was looking at the Alamos official website recently, and I saw that of all the defenders, uh, at the very top of the list.

They had an individual named John who was listed as a slave.

And so, um, there's also a listing in the handbook of Texas online, which is produced by the Texas state historical association of John as somebody who was a slave who died at the Alamo.

And, um, the primary source of that is, um, uh, an early Texas newspaper called the, uh, tell Telegraph in Texas register and a list that was printed about 18 days after the battle that listed John and no last name, just apparent paranthetically notation that he was a clerk, um, at, at a store that belonged to, uh, Francis to Salk in Matagorda county.

So really, um, what happened with that list was somebody, you know, authors over time had extrapolated and assigned different characteristics to John, um, that he was a private.

Um, and at some point someone said that he was, um, a black person and, and then I think it was, um, historian, um, Melia Williams described him as a black slave.

And so the, you know, this story has evolved over time.

Uh, more recently there's an author name and a historical researcher named bill.

Who's written about John and a couple of books and in the 19 mid 1980s, and in 1990, he described this person named John, who was a slave that died at the Alamo.

Um, and so I was naturally gravitated toward this story.

And so I reached out to and him, you know, tell me more about this person.

And he referred me to a 2012 article that he had written where basically he retracted everything that he had written about John and these books.

And he said that I believe that John was nothing more than a printing error in 1836 and, uh, you know, a project product of people's collective imaginations.

And so we have different, you know, these different, you know, entries online about John, that he was a slave who died or a Friedman, um, because the Alamo has, um, since my story came out, changed its narrative about John.

So, And w what is it that, that led to him to, to read, to, uh, bringing in that retraction or, or what are some of the things that change that, that, that leads him to believe he may no longer exist?

I think it was just over time.

Um, bill Grundman felt that he had never seen any corroboration of a Freedman or a slave named John, just this one name on a list.

And so, um, when you look at the actual list, the actual primary source material, there's a name right under John that's indented, and it's a last name, and it says third store.

And, uh, Grumman believes that John was John Thurston.

John Thurston was his actual name, um, sometimes spell this thrust to everything with the Alamos complicated, but, um, you know, so he believes that it was meant to be John Thurston on that list.

And it was just that the printer made an error and every, every writer, every historian since then has extrapolated that as John being an individual who really existed and was, you know, possibly a slave.

So could there potentially be any change to the historical record on that?

Absolutely.

I think that, um, there needs to be more research and, um, particularly, um, you know, as it relates to the controversy, uh, relative to slavery, we need to do more about finding out, you know, who were the pro-slavery forces, who were the abolitionist forces during the Texas revolution.

Um, and I think that that's part of a three legged stool of how we can work through this controversy through new research, along these cultural fault lines, um, continued dialogue.

I think that once this museum opens that there will have to be some kind of community advisory board or something like that, and then just a commitment to truth telling.

And so, you know, before the pandemic, the Alamo was probably the city's lead focus, as far as its redevelopment, the re-imagining this multi hundred million dollar, uh, renovation project for the LMO.

Uh, briefly, could you tell me where we are now?

You know, the pandemic came in, it changed a lot of focus, but what's happening with the Alamo and what can people expect over the next couple of years, If you recall, Joey, the Texas historical commission ruled against moving the cenotaph and the project came almost to a grinding halt and, um, it was just stuck in a ditch basically.

And then, uh, mayor, uh, Nierenberg um, announced what he called a reset in March of this year and, um, you know, made some changes to the committee assignments, um, replaced, uh, Councilman treviño with, uh, then Councilwoman via Ron.

And so now I think the project is in a good place.

They're constructing an Alamo exhibit hall and, uh, collections building on the grounds that's scheduled to open in about a year, fall of 2022 and, uh, the museum and visitor center and on the west end of Alamo Plaza, that's still in design and development.

And so there's still a lot of, um, you know, interpretive, uh, issues about, you know, how are we going to interpret the history of this site, which was not just a battle site, but a mission as well.

It's got 300 years of history, right?

So Scott Huddleston is the reporter for the San Antonio express news.

Scott, thanks so much for being with us tonight.

Thank you, Joey.

Thank you for joining us for this edition of on the record.

You can see this show again, or previous shows as well as our podcast at dot org.

We'll see you next time.

on the Record is brought to you by Steve And Adele Duplo.