S ♪ TIM: WELCOME BACK.

A SPECIAL CORRESPONDENTS EDITION OF OTR THIS WEEK.

OUR LEAD STORY, THE FINAL DEBATE FOR GOVERNOR, WHAT IMPACT WILL IT HAVE ON THE RACE?

ON THE OTR PANEL, JONATHAN OOSTING, ZOE CLARK, ZACHARY GORCHOW AND BILL BALLENGER.

SIT IN WITH US AS WE GET THE INSIDE OUT, OFF THE RECORD.

ANNOUNCER: PRODUCTION OF "OFF THE RECORD" IS MADE IN PART BY: AND NOW THIS EDITION OF OFF THE RECORD WITH TIM SKUBICK.

TIM: WELCOME BACK TO OFF THE RECORD LIVE FROM BEAUTIFUL DOWNTOWN EAST LANSING.

WELL, WE HAD THE FINAL DEBATE WITH THE GOVERNOR.

ON A SCALE OF ONE TO TEN, I WILL START WITH YOU MR. BILL BALLENGER, ONE BEING NOT SO MUCH, WHAT IMPACT WILL THIS DEBATE HAVE ON THE OUTCOME OF THE LEX ON THE SCALE OF ONE TO TEN?

>> SIX.

>> FOUR.

>> FOUR.

>> I WAS GOING TO SAY FOUR.

>> THE TWO DEBATES COMBINED I WILL GIVE A SEVEN.

>> NO.

YOU GOT TO ANSWER THE QUESTION ON THE TABLE.

>> THIS ONE I WILL SAY A FIVE.

I WAS GOING TO JEFF IT LOWER.

WAS AROUND FOUR.

BILL, WHY A SIX?

YOU THINK THIS IS A GAME-CHANGER?

BILL.

SIX IS NOT THAT HIGH, TIM.

[LAUGHTER] BUT I THINK IT PROBABLY GAVE TUDOR DIXON SOME OOMPH IN THE FINAL COUPLE OF WEEKS HERE.

IT KIND OF REINFORCED THE GROWING IDEA SHE IS UP TO SPEED.

SHE CAN HANDLE THE ISSUE AND GO TOE-TO-TOE WITH THE GOVERNOR.

SOME PEOPLE THINK SHE WON ONE OR BOTH OF THE DEBATES SO I THINK IT HELPED HER, AND I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT THAT WHITMER DIDN'T MAKE ANSWER MISTAKES, SO I THINK IT WITHS A REAL FACTOR.

JUST THINK IF THERE HAD NOT BEEN ANY DEBATES THAT IS WHAT YOU WOULD BE TALKING ABOUT TODAY.

>> YOU CAN'T DO THAT.

>> RIGHT.

>> I THINK, TUDOR DIXON GOT SOME DEFINITE BENEFIT FROM THE DEBATES.

SHE SHOWED SHE WAS ABLE TO STAND ON THE STAGE WITH GOVERNOR WHITMER AND REALLY HANDLE HERSELF WELL AND SEEMED WELL-PREPARED, DEPLOYED A LOT OF INFORMATION AGAINST THE GOVERNOR ON THE RECORD THEN SET A COUPLE OF TRAPS THE GOVERNOR FELL INTO IN THE SECOND DEBATE WITH THAT BEING SAID GOVERNOR WHITMER HAD A LOT OF GOOD MOMENTS TOO AND PUT TUDOR DIXON ON THE HEELS THEN BOTH STARTED OUT WITH TENMENMEN ON ABORTION TO START OUT WITH.

AM SHORE THE GOVERNOR AND HER TEAM WERE HAPPY ABOUT THIS AND DON'T THINK IT CAT PUTTED TUDOR DIXON INTO YOU KNOW, WHY SHE IS GOING TO WIN THIS THING, THEN, HAD SHE HAD A TERRIBLE PERFORMANCE THEN WE WOULD BE TALKING ABOUT THIS IS OVER.

THE, HEN, THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN.

WELL, WE'LL PROBABLY TALK AS THE MACHINE MENS HERE ROLL BY ABOUT ISSUES IN THE BACK AND FORTHS BUT TO THE POINT OF THE FOUR RIGHT IS THE PROFESSIONOR HER AND ALL SPOKEN WITH AT THE DEBATE AND SAID SOMETHING INTERESTING WHICH DEBATES ARE THE MASTERS RIGHT.

THAT WHAT THEY SAY ABOUT THE FIRST DAY OF THE MASTERS THIS IS YOU CANNOT WIN THE MASTERS ON THE FIRST DY AND CERTAINLY LOSE ON THE FIRST DAY AND SO TO ZACH POINT, YOU KNOW, CAN DO GREAT IN A DEBATE.

IT DOESN'T MEAN YOU ARE GOING TO WITHIN THE ELECTION BUT YOU CAN HAVE A SLIPUP AND DO POORLY THEN GAP, OR WHATEVER, IT IS SORT OF WHAT BECOMES KNOWN ABOUT THE CANDIDATE GOING IN.

RIGHT.

THERE WAS NOT NECESSARILY ANY OF THAT.

>> YEAH TUDOR DIXON HAD MORE TO GIN AND SHE DID.

I THINK FOR A LOT OF IN DECIDED VOTERS WHO MAY BE DID NOT LOVE WHITMER AND NOT SURE IF DIXON WAS QUALIFIED TO BE GOVERNOR AND SHOWED HERSELF TO BE A CONFIDENT DEBEATOR WHO, YOU KNOW, YOU MENTIONED WAS ABLE TO AT LEAST SPAR ON THE SHORE YOU AND FOR FOLKS WHO HAD COLD FEET MAY BE ENOUGH TO CHANGE MINES?

GO AHEAD.

>> WITH, I WAS GOING TO SAY.

SO, LOOK.

IT LIKE YOU KNOW, IN COUPLE BEEN IS RUNNING AND REFERENDUM ON THE INCUMBENT SO THE FIRST THING THE VOTE ARE IS DOING AND DO I WANT TO VOTE TO THEM AGAIN, RIGHT?

THEN IT IS, WELL I AM NOT SURE NO, YOU LOOK AT WHO THOUGH OTHER CANDIDATES AND THIS YOUR POINT THE GREAT TIME.

WELL, WHO IS THIS PERSON AND PARTICULARLY BECAUSE THAT FIRST DEABOUT A IN THE GRAND RAPIDS MEDIA MARKET.

SURE TO THE EXTEND DEBATES MAKE DIFFERENCE TAT POINT.

IT IS WITH THOSE UNDECIDED VOTERS, RYE.

A YOU HAVE TO APPEAL TO THEM AND B YOU HAVE TO HOP THEY ARE WATCHING EVEN THEY DONE, YOU KNOW, HEADLINE THAT DIXON DID WELL IN THE DID HE ABOUT IT A COLUMN THE DETROIT NEWS THAT VOTES ARE MAY READ THAT HEADLINE IF THEY DIDN'T SEE THE DEBATE AND HELPS WITH THE NARRATIVE AND THE IDEA AGAIN, THAT DIXON IS.

TIM: HERE IS HARSH REAL WILLING TY ON THE DEBATE FUSS LIKED GRETCHEN WOMAN AT THE HOUR AFTER YOU GUYING RIGHT.

THAT IT IS, IT IS THAT MASS WHICH IS NOT A MASS, IT IS THAT YOU HAD SIX PERCENT OR FIVE PERCENT THE MIDDLE SOME OF WHOM DID NOT SEE THIS OR DON'T READ THE DETROIT NEWS OR THE FREE PRESS AND DO NOT KNOW I AM, I AM NOT.

DO NOT MOVE THE NEEDLE, OKMENT THINK OF THE TWO THE GOVERNOR WAS MORE AT RISK BECAUSE I THINK THE DIXON PEOPLE ARE SOLID NONE OF THEM GOING TO GO OVER TO WHITMER.

DO WE AGREE ON THAT.

YEAH.

YEAH.

SOME THERE MAY BE SOME PEOPLE IN THE WHITMORE CAMP BILLY WHO WILL COME OVER TO DIXON THAT IS FAIR OR NOT?

>> PROBABLY.

PROBABLY NOT.

THINK IT IS THOSE PEOPLE IN THE MIDDLE THAT YOU DESCRIBED, TIM.

WHATEVER IT IS.

FIVE OR SIX PER CEP, WHATEVER.

I JUST THINK IT IS JUST AS UNLIKELY THAT WHITMER PEOPLE WOULD BE DO VOTE FOR DIXON AS IT'S THE OTHER WAY AROUND.

>> YOU LOOK AT MACOMB COUNTY, GRETCHEN WHITMER IS A SURPRISE FOUR YEARS AGO AND CARRIED MACOMB COUNTY BUY A SMALL PERCENTAGE.

THREE TO FIVE POINTS, WHAT IS HAPPENING WITHING THAT THREE TO FIVE, THAT PUT HER OVER THE TOP?

AND MA THAT COULD BE THE GROUP OF VOTERS, I THINK, DIXON PEOPLE ARE HOPING THEY REACHED WITH THESE, THIS DEBATE SOMEHOW, AND THEY SAW SOMEONE MAKE AN ARGUMENT AGAINST THE GOVERNOR, GO DONE THE LIST OF GOVERNOR WHIT MR'S ROR, THEN HOPING, THESE PEOPLE ARE SAYING, YEAH, I DIP LIKE THIS.

I DIDN'T LIKE THAT.

HEY.

HERE IS SOMEONE TALKING ABOUT SOMETHING DIFFERENT.

THAT IS THE VERY NARROW BAND YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.

TIM: WELL, ALSO FACTOR INTO THAT EQUATION, PEOPLE WHO WILL VOTE FOR A THIRD PARTY CANDIDATE WHO DON'T LIKE EITHER OF THE TWO LADIES.

>> THAT IS A SMALL NUMBER.

TIM: YES, IS ONE OR TWO PER END, DIXON NEEDS TO PICK THAT UP.

SHE CAN GET THAT, AM I RIGHT OR WRONG?

JUST NOD YOUR HEAD YES.

LAUGH.

>> ONE OR TWO PER REN IS TYPICAL.

IF YOU HAVE A WEIRD SITUATION LIKE 20 6 IN THE PRESIDENTIAL RACE, THE LIBERTARIAN, THE GROWN PARTY GET WHATEVER IT WAS, FIVE PERCENT COME BAND THAT IS WHEN YOU HAVE WEIRD IN THISES.

>> YOU HAVE DETROIT NEWS AGAIN TALKING ABOUT ENDORSING IN 2016 FROM INDEPENDENT.

YAO WELL, LOOK YOU SAID THE GOVERNOR HAD SOME UNFORCEDDER O ARORS TRAPS WERE SET.

WHAT WERE THE TRAPS?

>> WITH, I THINK THE BIGGEST TRAPS SET REFERRING TO THIS IS AUTO INSURANCE REBATE CHECKS RIGHT.

THE GOVERNOR SPENT A LOT OF TIME IN ADVERTISING SAYING YOU KNOW, HEY WE CUTGIES I THINK IT WAS $400 CHECK RIGHT.

WE GAVE THAT BACK TO YOU.

YEAH.

SURE.

THE MICHIGAN CATASTROPHIC CLAIMS ASSOCIATION IS RAISING THE FEE FOR NEXT YEAR AND DIXON BROUGHT THAT YOU.

WHITMER SAID, YOU KNOW, THE GOVERNOR HAS NOTHING TO DO.

YOU ARE SHOWING HOW UNQUALIFIED YOU ARE.

SURE.

THE GOVERNOR EVENTUALLY ADMITTED ON TELL RY, THAT SHE WAS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR CUTTING THOSE CHECKS AND IT WAS THE NCCA AND DOESN'T RUN THE NCCA.

THE GOVERNOR IS FORTUNATE THAT NO ONE KNOW WHAT'S THE NCCA IS BECAUSE IT WOULD HAVE BEEN TAILOR-MADE FOR THE AD HAD IT NOT BEEN MORE COMPLEXED.

IT WOULD HAVE SAID HERE IS GRIT CHEN WHITMER ON TV SAYING SHE CULT YOU THE $400 CHECK AND ON TELLS HAVE SAYING SHE WOULD NEVER TO DO WITH INSHE CUT THE CHECK.

ALL SHE SAID IS WE VENT ISN'T THIS YOU HE CHECK.

IT IS IMPLIED?

I AM IS IMPLIED.

WELL, IT IS IMPLIED.

YEAH.

YEAH.

IT WAS ONE OF A FEW MOMENTS IN THIS DEBATE, WHERE I HATE TO MAKE IT POLL TECHS ABOUT SPORES BUT IT IS AND DEBATE MEDIA ROOM WATCHING IT WHERE YOU ARE WATCHING THAT BACK AND FORTH LIKE TENNIS.

THIS VOLLEY BACK AND FORTH, SO WHITMORE SORT OF VOL I ALSO IT AND SHOWING HOW VASTLY UNQUALIFIED THAT YOU DON'T KNOW AS THIS AND SORT OF LIKE, WOW, WOW, DROP THE MIC ON THAT THEM IN THE TUDOR DIXON CAME BACK AND SAID SOMETHING ALONG THE LOONS OF SO GLAD ARE FINALLY ADMITTING THEN IT WAS NOT YOU AND THE VOLLEY BACK AND IN THE, THAT VERY MUCH WAS SORT OF THE OVERALL SENSE OF THIS DEBATE, WHERE REALLY WAS THE STRONG BACK AND FORTH BETWEEN TWO CANDIDATES WHO OBVIOUSLY, WHO OBVIOUSLY KNOW HOW TO DEBATE.

THE GOVERNOR'S CRITICS ALSO, BILL, SAID THE GOVERNOR'S THREE MONTHS EVER CLOSED SCHOOLS OPENED PAN ARE A'S BOX, DID IT NOT INYEAH.

THE THAT WAS PROBLEM INCH HEN, LOOK, LOOK, LETS HE TALK ABOUT LINE FIVE, STRAITS OF PIPELINE.

THAT WAS TELLING EXCHANGE BETWEEN THE TWO OF THEM.

THINK YOU SHOULDN'T OVERLOOK THAT.

WELL, I CAN'T BELIEVE THE GOVERNOR THOUGHT SHE WOULD GET AWAY WITH SAYING NOTHING HAS CHANGED AND, RIGHT.

THIS IS, I DON'T THINK THE GOVERNOR ENJOYED THIS LAST DEBATE VERY MUCH BECAUSE, THIS WERE PARTS OF HER RECORD WHERE SHE WAS IN A CORNER THEN THE LINE FIVE WAS ONE OF THEM AND SAID NOTHING HAS CHANGED BUT YOU KNOW, AS DIXON POINTED OUT.

NONG THATS TO THE GOVERNOR AND ATTORNEY GENERAL DID WAGE AN EFFORT TO IN COURT TO YOU SHUTDOWN LIFE LINE FIVE.

THE GOVERNOR DID SAY IN THE 2018 CAMPAIGN THOUGHT LINE FIVE SHOULD BE SHOTTERRED SO IT WAS DIFFICULT POSITION, BECAUSE ON THE ONE HAND, ORGANIZED LABOR, WANTS LINE FIVE TO CONTINUE, AND ENVIRONMENTAL, THEN, BECAUSE OF THE JOBS.

BECAUSE OF THE JOBS WANTS THE TUNNEL AND THEN I WILL POINT OUT.

WHITMER IS A NUANCE YOU DON'T GET INTO DEBATE HERE.

SHE IN 20 8 DID NOT COME PAIN AGAINST THE TUNNEL AND CALM PAGED AGAINST SHUTTING DONE THE EXISTING PAPE LYNNE THEN CAG DAY SPOR THE TUNNEL PROM JEK TO MOVE FOR WITHIN AND STOPPED THAT PROJECT AND.

>> THE ANSWER IS THE SAME TO WHY SHE'S A POISED TO LINE FIVE WHICH IS THE SUM.

YEAH.

RIGHT.

RIGHT.

THIS IS A TICKING TAME BOMB.

IT IS FASCINATING TO ME YOU CAN BE UP NORTH DOES THIS THE STRAITS THEN SEE IN A YARD, A YOU KNOW, REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE THEN GOING BACK A FEW YEARS THEN A SAY ON THE SAME YARD.

I THINK ALL OF THIS GOES BACK TO THIS IDEA THOUGH ITS HARD TO DEBATE WHEN ARE IN COUPLE BEEN VERSUS CANDIDATE WHO DOESN'T HAVE A RECORD THEN ALLOWED TO SAY THEN A VOTE OF SECTORS THEN VETOES END THIS YOU GOT TUDOR DIXON WHO IS ABLE TO SAY I WOULD DO AND NOT SAY JUST SAY WHAT THE GOVERNOR DIDN'T D WASN'T RIGHT.

HAVE YOU SEEN ANY WHITE PAPERS FROM TUDOR DIXON.

THAT WAS MY POINT.

>> NO.

WHY NOT IN THE WHY NOT.

WELL, JUST THINK SHE.

LET'S EXPLAIN.

WELL, WHIT MR'S WEAKNESSES THEN THING ABOUT EDGE AS EVERYONE DESCRIBED THEN WHY SHOULD TUDOR DIXON COME OUT, WITH EXPANDED POSITIONS ON A LOT OF ISSUES, IT IS JUST GOING TO GET HER IN TROUBLE.

WELL, THE ONE THEN.

WELL, THE ONE THING SHE DID SAY THINKS THE INCOME TAX SHOULD BE PHASEED OUT GRADUALLY.

EIGHT TO TEN YEARS.

THAT IS GREAT.

BUT YOU KNOW, IT IS WHAT, $1,213,000,000,000 IS YOU KNOW, ALMOST HALF OF THE STATE'S PACIFIC REVENUE, THEN, THE, SHE DOESN'T HAVE AN ANSWER FOR HOW WHAT SHE IS GOING TO DO ABOUT THAT AND IS SHE GOING TO DECIDE TO GET RID OF THE PRISON SYSTEM OR YOU KNOW STOP FUNDING HIGHER EDUCATION THESE ARE MAJOR MAJOR ITEMS THEN SHE TALKED ABOUT DOING IT GRADUALLY THEN, MICHIGAN HAS HAD INCOME TAX SINCE THE 19 60'S THEN, THEN A CHANGE IN WHAT MICHIGAN GOVERNMENT LOOKS LIKE IF YOU GET RID OF THAT MUCH REVENUE.

TO YOUR POINT.

THIS IS RADICALLY DIFFERENT GOVERNOR'S RACE AND IT IS FOUR YEARS AGO OR 12 YERSING A WHEN YOU HAD OPEN SEAT, RIGHT.

THIS IS A REFERENDUM ON THE GOVERNOR'S RECORD THEN TRYING TO MAKE IT THAT OF COURSE AND THEN YOU KNOW, ISSUES AND THE GOVERNOR WHITMER FOUR YEARS AGO PUT OUT AND AND DESCRIBING YEAH.

YEAH.

SURE EVEN MORE.

AND YOU, DESCRIBING IT IN SOME DEDALE WHAT THEY WERE ACTUALLY IN TENNING OR HOPING TO DO AS GOVERNOR.

TUDOR DIXON HAS NOT DONE THAT.

>> AND SHE HAS NOT.

>> SHE TAX PROPOSAL AND CERTAINLY BROUGHT UP MANY TIMES THEN, THIS DEBATE YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW, THREE WEEKS, TWO WEEKS BEFORE THE LEB, IT WAS THE FIRST TIME, WE GOT INTO ANY LEVEL OF DETAIL ABOUT HOW LONG SHE WANTS THAT TO TAKETH.

SO CERTAINLY, YOU KNOW, VOTERS DON'T KNOW A WHOLE LOT ABOUT WHERE SHE STAND ON SHORE YOU AFTER DEBATES.

THE GOVERNOR DED TRY TO PRESS HER ON THIS AND VERY INTENSE DIS"ON FIRE AS THAT WAS THE AREA WHERE THE GOVERNOR DID COME OUT WHICH AHEAD WHERE THE GOVERNOR SAID WHO ARE YOU GOING TO TRUST WITH PLANS HER TO CANDIDATES OUT HERE WITH THOUGHTSES PLAIN YERBAS THE GOVERNORS THE ONE WHO SAID I FAVOR A, B, C, POLICIES THEN SAID NO TO ALL OF THAT AND THEN, LET'S GET RID OF THE GUN FREE SCHOOL ZONES.

THE GOVERNOR'S MOST PASSIONATE LINE WHEN HE LOOKED A AT HER APHONE AND SAY, BUT MORE AFRAID OF BOOBS THAN GUNS.

>> RIGHT THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT GUNS IN SCHOOLS TEN, THEN,S, HAD BEEN EARLIER TALKING ABOUT THIS SHORE YOU THAT TUDOR DIXON HAS HEARD AND MADE A ISSUE IN THE CAMPAIGN WHICH IS THIS PA RENAL RIGHT SORT OF THE CULTURE WARS RIGHT AND ONE OF THE ISSUES IS BANNING BOOKS IN THE, SO THE GOVERNOR TURNED AND AS YOU NOTED DIRECTLY LOOKED AT TUDOR DIXON THEN SAID YOU KNOW, OOK.

ARE YOU MORE CONCERNED, YOU KNOW, YOU THINK BOOKS ARE MORE DANGEROUS THAN GUNS.

AFTERWARDS, RIGHT, RIGHT, THAT IS WHERE BOTH OF THEM COME TO THE MEDIA ROOM.

THE MEDIA FLOCKED IN THE YOU SEE THE CAMPS ARE AND EGG LIKE THAT.

HEN, A FOLLOW UPTO TUDOR DIXON THAT SAID, DO YOU WANT TO, DO YOU WANT TO ANSWER THAT.

THEN, ACTUALLY TUDOR DIXON SAID, I THINK, I THINK THEY ARE DANGEROUS.

THE TWO MOST MEMABLE MOMENTS IN THE PE DEBATE WERE GRETCHEN WHITMER AND DO YOU THINK BOOKS MORE DANGER OS THAN GUNS WAS BIG ONE AND REPHONESSED WHAT WHITMORE SPORT ORES LIKE ABOUT HER, RIGHT.

SHE WAS ABLE TO REFRAIN THIS ISSUE TUDOR DIXON SPENT A TON OF TIME HAMMERING ABOUT AND PEOPLE ARE ACTUALLY DYING IN STOOL SCHOOLS THIS HAPPENED AND I HAVE ACTUAL POLICIES TO ADDRESS IT.

THE OTHER MOST MEMORABLE LINE WHEN YOU MENTIONED, WHEN WE SAID WE CLOSED SCHOOLS FOR THREE IN MOS THEN, NOW, THE GOVERNOR LATER CLARIFIED THEN AGAIN, SHE WAS SAYING, PER ORDER SO HER STATE HEALTH DEPARTMENT ORDERS ONLY ONLIED CLOSE FO THREE MONTHS THEN A LOT OF PARENTS HEAD HOME AND MANY SCHOOLS WERE CLOSE FOR MUCH LONGER.

TUDOR DIXON HAD SOLID RETORT THERE AND WE HEARD IT ALL AROUND TOWN WHEN THE GOVERNOR SAID THAT.

WELL, SHE COULD HAVE ADDED TO THE ANSWER BY SAYING THE SCHOOLS EEVENTUALLY WERE CLOSED BY THE SCHOOLS BUT WOULDN'T HAVE SAID WE IN THE REPUBLICANS AND THE LEDGE SLA I TURE DECIDED THIS IS A LOSER, SO LET'S GO TO LOCAL CONTROL.

OK.

EVENTUALLY THEY GOT AROUND TO THAT.

WHAT ABOUT THE RUNNING QUOTE END WET AND WITH REGARD TO LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR GARLAND GILCREST AND WHERE WAS SHE COMING FROM ON THAT?

>> WELL, THE BACKDROP HERE, SO, SO THE GOVERNOR BASICALLY CALLED TUDOR DIXON ELECTION DENIER BECAUSE TUDOR DIXON THINKS TRUCK WAS ELECTED PRESIDENT IN 2020 OR SHOULD HAVE BEEN ELECTED PRESIDENT IN 2020 AND THEN WOULD COOK SOMEHOW AND THE DEBATE TRUE THAT TRIED TO THREE BACK AND YOUR LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR GARLAND GILCREST HARKENING BACK TO WE ARE REASON AND MADE A NUMBER OF COMMENTS ABOUT MAJOR PROBLEMS THEN, 20 7 IN THE, MAJOR PROBLEMS IN THE DETROIT ELECTION OPERATION AND THEN, THE GOVERNOR BASICALLY CAN'T REMEMBER HER EX AC WORDS BUT THIS IS REALLY APPLE AND ORANGES AND THEN, SHE STATED IS AISLE SY.

SHE SAID IT SILLY.

RIGHT.

YES YOU ARE RIGHT.

DIDN'T EN ARE GEAN GAG DIRECTLY AND ACCEPTED THIS HE RESULTS THEN A RECOUNT AND IT WAS OVER.

YOU NO HE INHE DID THAT I HAVE WERE MAJOR PROBLEMS THEN, THEN, IRREGULARITIES BUT NO POINT DID HE SAY THE RESULTS WERE COOKED.

AGAINST HIM.

SURE.

HE DIDN'T GO TO COURT TO TRY TO CHALLENGE IT THEN DIDN'T SPEND THE NEXT FOUR YEARS HE HAD WON.

YEAH.

YEAH.

CALLED FOR AWED WHY IT.

YEAH.

YEAH THIS IS A LONG RUNNING ATTEMPT BY REPUBLICANS TO WHITE WATCH WHAT HAPPENED IN 2020 BY SAYING LOOK HILLARY CLINTON FUNDED THE RECOUNT AND QUESTIONED RESULTS IN 2016 THENAL GORE HANGING CHAD ISSUE AND QUESTIONED THE RUSS BUT IN THOSE CASEST THIS DID SEASON THE RESULTS DID NOT CONTINUE TO CHALLENGE IT AND THEIR EVES DID NOT LEAD TO RIOTS AT THE U.S. CAPITOL THEN, THEN, DEF LISTEN I APPLE AND ORANGES.

YEAH.

IN FACT JUST QUICKLY ALSO WHEN DIXON WAS ACTUALLY ASKED AGAIN IN THIS AFTER THE DEBATE ABOUT SHE VERY QUICKLY PIVOTED AND SAID, WELL HILLARY CLINTON IS TRYING TO CALLEN THE 2024 ELECTION.

RIGHT?

THEN IT IS LIKE REALLY HARD TO KIND OF PIGEON HOLE WITH TUDOR DIXON, TILL, ABOUT HER ELECTION DENIALISM ABOUT 2028 THEN WHERE SHE ACTUALLY STANDSMENT ALL RIGHT.

HERE IS NOER HARSH REAL THINK ABOUT DEBATES WE HAVE SPENT 15 MACHINE MISNIT-PICKING THIS APART.

ANY HUMAN BEING OUT THERE IN THE LAND WHO TOOK THIS DEBATE APPORT AND THEN, THEN, OR DID THEY COME AWAY WITH IMPRESSION.

THO.

I DON'T THINK PEOPLE ARE OBSESSING OVER THE WAY WE ARE THIS MORNING FOR 15 MACHINE MACHINES THEN DON'T GET PAID FOR IT.

OK. OK. >> BUT MY POINT IS.

THEN, HON LES I, THEN DEBATES ARE HOT GOING TO DECIDE THE ELECTION EN MY OPINION, UNLESS IT IS EXTREMELY CLOSE, AND PEOPLE POINT BACK TO THEM AHSAN, LOOK, THIS IS THE TIME WHEN DISKOP SHOWED UP AND AND PEOPLE REALIZED WHO SHE WAS AND SHE WAS CREDIBLE.

SHE WENT TOE-TOTOE WITH THE GOVERNOR THEN ONLY THEN WILT MATTER THEN, N IS DOG LOOK AT DEBATES THEN, SAY, WHITMORE BLEW WITH IT THIS LINE THEN ON THIS SUBJECT THEN THAT DEBATE, THEN, NOT GOING TO HAPPEN BY THE WAY, BY THE WAY WE SHOULDN'T BE TALKING ABOUT LIKE, LOOK THE GOVERNOR IS A DICTATOR THEN ISSUES EDICT THEN ALL BILLION THE LEGISLATURE.

HELP, REMEMBER, BACK IN 2006, JENNIFER GRANHOLM WITHIN A BIG VICTORY THEN DEMOCRATS GOT CONTROL THEN HAPPY DAYS ARE HER AGAIN THEN WE'LL ROLL UP THE EVENTS THEN GET THINGS DONE THE NEXT FOUR YEARS GUESS THE REPUBLICANS HAD CONTROL OF THE SENATE, TILL, THEN, AS A RULE THERE WAS PRETTY MUCH DEADLOCKED DURING THE SECOND TERM OFFED FROM HOME THEN YOU HAD DEMOCRATIC HOUSE SPEAKER THEN, THEN, MIKE BISH BUSH THE SENATE MAJORITY LEADER THEY PROBABLY GOT A LOT BETTER THAN THE GOVERNOR DID WITH EITHER ONE OF THEM, HEN, THEN, SO, LOOK, LOOK, THERE IS GOING TO BE GRID LOCK IF ONE OF THE PARTIES GETS ONE LEG OF THE THREE LEGGED STOOL IN THIS ELECTION.

WELL THERE IS GOING TO BE GRID LOCK THE NEXT FOUR ARE FOUR YAS LET ME SEGUE THE NATE APPEARS TO BE IN PLAY THROUGH OR FOUR SEATS TO THE DECIDE THE OUTCOME.

WHAT'S THE CURRENT READ?

WELL, I PANE, RIGHT HOW, IT FEELS LIKE BOTH PARTIES CAN PROBABLY LAY CLAIM TO 17 SEAT, THAT LEAVES BASICALLY, FOUR LEFT TO DECIDE IT.

IN THE, AS I LOOK AT.

IT FEEL LIKE I CAN SEE THE DEMOCRATS GETTING TO 18, THEN, IF YOU ASSUME FOR A MOMENT, THAT GOVERNOR WHITMER WINNINGS THEN GARLAND GILCREST MAKES THE TIE THEN THE DEMOCRATS NEED TO GET TO 16 FOR CONTROL, THEN, THAT 16 SEED, I WE ARE GOING TO BE WAITING WELL TO WEDNESDAY TO SEE IT.

I THIS I.

IF THEY GET KNITP IN THE, THEN.

ALL THREE ARE VERY, VERY DIFFICULT THINK I, FOR THEM TO WIN.

>> THE OAKLAND COUNTY AREA.

SO YOU GOT ONE IN THE TRIESTES BAY CITIES, SAG MAU, MIDLAND, WITHIN IN THE GRAND RAPIDS AREA THEN YOU GOT ONE ALONG LAKE ST. CLAIR THEN IF I AM THE REPUBLICANS I FEEL GOOD ABOUT THAT AND THE TURF WHERE THIS IS BEING FOUGHT AND YOU CAN MAKE A CASE FOR WHY THE DEMOCRATS COULD WIN ANY OF THEM, THEN, THEN, YOU CAN ALSO MAKE A CASES TO WHY THE REN CANS COULD WIN ANY OF THEM.

ALSO BE CAREFUL HERE.

OK, THE MAPS NEVER TESTED WITH LIVE HUMAN BEINGS THAT IS WHAT IS FAST NATEING ABOUT THIS, RIGHTEN THIS HE IS THE FIRST TIME THEN WE NOWED SHOW NOTE THE REASON WE GOT SOME COMPETITIVE DISTRICT HERE IS BECAUSE OF THESE NEW MAPS THEN BECAUSE OF REKISS STRIKING THENS THAT THE SAY IN THE STATE HOUSE AND THE IT?

AND THESE NEW CONGRESSIONAL MAPS AS WELL THEN SO, A LOT OF THIS AS YOU CAN KIND OF SEE, AND PUT THE MAPS OVER WHAT WE KNOW ABOUT THE DISTRICTS FROM 20 6 OR 2020 AND THIS WOULD HAVE GONE MUCH BUT A LOT OF THIS IS TOO IS GOING TO COME TO ELECTION DAY AND THE DAY AFTER FOR THAT AND WHEN WE ARE GOING TO KNOW AND THEN, FROM THERE BE ABLE TO UNDERSTAND AND THAT THE MAPS REALLY MEAN AT THAT POINT INNOCENT YEAH.

THEN YOU GO ABOUT THE POINT ABOUT MAYBE TOO MUCH POTENTIAL AND GOVERNOR'SS' I DON'T KNOW IFS THAT THE CASE THEN WHITMORE WROTE OR WON BY 16 POINTS WHATEVER THE POLLS SUGGESTED SHE WAS UP WEEKS AGO THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN HUGE FOR THE LEGISLATURE THEN, I THINK, EVERYOE THOUGHT IT WOULD TIGHTEN UP THEN YOU KNOW, FOUR TO FIVE POINT RACE OR EVEN LESS THAN THAT REALLY DIMINISHES THE DEMOCRAT'S CHANCES OF FLIPPING THE SENATE BUZZ YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY, WITH REDISTRICTING SOME COMPETITIVE.

WHAT ABOUT THOUS?

I THINK THE REPUBLICANS ARE AND THE FAVORITES TO KEEP IT RIGHT NOW, THEN, ALOOK AT THE SEATS HOW TO, WE GOT ABOUT 46 THAT LOOK SOLID LIKELY FOR THE REPUBLICAN THEN YOU COULD SAY 48 TO 45 THAT LOOK SOLID LIKELY FOR THE DEMOCRATS THEN 56 IS THE MADGE EK NUMBER THE RUNWAY FOR THE REPUBLICANS TO GET THERE IS SHORTER THEN, YOU KNOW, IN THE YOU LOOK AT SOME AREAS AND WHERE THE DEMOCRATS HAVE DECIDED THIS RE NOT GOING TO PLY, THEN, THEN, AND YOU KNOW, IF THE REPUBLICANS CAN GET ALL, YOU KNOW, THEIR IN COUPLE BEEN AS BACK AND THINK ABOUT JK O'MALLEY UP IN TRAVERSE CITY AND MARK TISDALE IN ROCHESTER HILLS IF THOSE TWO ARE ABLE TO WIN I DON'T SEE A PATH TO 56 ANOTHER DEMOCRATS WITH THAT SAID, LIKE ZOEY SAID WE DON'T KNOW HOW THEY ARE GOING TO PERFORM THEN, WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THE MARGIN AND THE GOVERNOR'S RACE IS TOYON THAN'S POINT THIS IS A LOT OF MOVING PARTS HERE BUT WHERE AS THE SENATE I FEEL IT IS A JUNK BALL.

THE REPUBLICANS AND MY MOOD ON THIS IS NOT CHANGED THEY HAVE BEEN THE FAVORITES I THINK SINCE THOSE MAPS WERE FAMIZED TO KEEP THE HOUSE AND I THINK THERE IS STILL OF A RITE.

THESE WOULD ARGUE WE HAD A TON OF MONEY COME FOR US.

THE HOUSE, THE HOUSE SEAT.

I SAID THIS FOR YEARS.

YOU TELL ME THE PARTY OF THE PRESIDENT, IN A WILL TELL YOU, WHO IS GOING TO DO BETTER IN THE RACE FORCE THE LEGISLATURE THEN, THAT IS, THERE IS A DEMOCRATIC WAN THE WHITE HOUSE, THEN, THERE HAS NOT BEEN A TICKET-WIDE WIN FOR DEMOCRATS CAN AND WITH A DEMOCRATIC IN THE WHITE HOUSE IN MICHIGAN EVER, EVER NOT EVER.

NOT EVER.

SO SO, IT WOULD BE PRECEDENT SETTING IF SOMEHOW THERE WAS DEMOCRATIC WAVE DONE THE TICKET.

>> ANY A ONE SAYING A DEMOCRATIC WAVE.

WELL, THEY TAKE THE LEGISLATURE.

A TRICKLE.

THEY TAKE THE LEGISLATURE I MEAN, THAT IS LIKE, I WOULD CALL IT A WAVE.

IF THEY DO THAT PRESIDENT?

OOP SO BOTH HOUSES THEY WIN BOTH HOUSES IN THIS THE GOVERNOR'S RACE.

>> THAT IS IT.

>> IF THEY WITHIN THE LEGISLATURE THEN THE GOVERNORSHIP THAT IS A WAVE AND, RIGHT NOW, WITH A DEMOCRATIC WHITE HOUSE IT WOULD BE A BIG SURPRISE.

THE FIRST TIME IN 40ER YAS, I MEAN, TRIFECTA.

MAY THAN THE.

IT'S THE HE THING.

EVERYBODY HAS TO REMEMBER LIKE, LIKE, THIS IT?

AND THEN AGAIN BECAUSE OF REDISTRICTING IN MY ENTIRE LIFETIME HAS ONLY BEEN REPUBLICAN SO I MEAN, I MEAN, THERE IS PEOPLE LIKE, WHO HAVE NEVER EXPERIENCED WHAT IT WOULD MEAN TO HAVE DEMOCRATS RUN THE EXECUTIVE BRANCHES AS WELL AS BOTH CHAMBERS NOT IN 40 EARS ALSO'S THROW THERE.

BILL, BALLOT PROPOSALS IN.

DO BALLOT PROPOSALS HAVE A STRONGER ROLE IN DETERMINING THE HUS AND THE GOVERNOR'S THAN IN THE PAST OR NOT?

>> I WOULD SAY, PERHAPS AAL THREE THIS YEAR HAS IMPACT ANDS THAT THE ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM RIGHT NOW, THAT WE HAVE NOT TALKED ABOUT, LOOK, HACK, A MONTH AGO, PROPOSAL THREE WAS SHOWN TO BE CARRYING BY 3035%.

EVERYBODY THOUGHT IT WITH A BE BLOW OUT.

IN THE, WHITMER HAS TIDE THE CAMPAIGN TO PROPOSAL THREE CONSIST CONTINUALLY ALL THE WAY AROUND AND DEMOCRATIC GOVERNOR HE A ASSOCIATION DUMPED 3.5 MILLION ON TUDOR DIXON THAT ISSUE DURING THE AUGUST MUCH IN THE, THEN, NOW, NOW, AND OW, TIM, THE POLLS ARE SHOWING, THAT IS CLOSED ALMOST 50-50.

ONE POLL LAST WEEK.

WELL, SHADES OF 1972 WHEN THIS WAS ON THE PAL LOT AND VERY MUCH THE SAM WAY AND EVERYBODY THOUGHT ITS GOING TO PASS AND THEY GOT KILLED 60 TO 46 THEN WHITMORE TIED THE GAM WAYNE TO PROPOSAL THREE AND RESSAL THREE IS NO THE BIG ASSET THAT IT LOOKED LIKE IT WAS GOING TO BE ALL SUMMER LONG, THEN, THEN, WITH MER ENDS UP EVEN WINNING BAY NARROW MARGIN AS GLACK SAID THIS WILL HAVE BIG IMPACT IN.

THE DEMOCRATS ARE NOT GOING TO GOT THE COATTAILS FROM WHAT THEY WERE COUNTING ON ALL SUMMER LONG.

OK. WE ARE OUT OF TIME UNFORTUNATELY BECAUSE THAT IS JUST THE WAIT IS IN TR LAND NEXT WOOK WE HOPE TO HAVE ONE OF THE OHMLE FROM THE HOUSE REPUBLICAN SIDE AND THEN TO CONNOR AC WHAT WE SAID LAST WEEKEND ON THE HOUSE RACES THANKS TO UL OF A YOU.

GREAT SEE YOU ALL.

EVERYBODY V A SAFE WEEKEND DOON WE SAY ANYTHING ABOUT THE THING IN ANN ARBOR.

OH, SU.

NO LISTEN.

ALL RIGHT.

ALL RIGHT.

SEE YOU NEXT WEEK, FOLKS.

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