>> GOOD EVENING AND WELCOME TO CHICAGO TONIGHT.

I'M BRANDIS FRIEDMAN.

>> AND I'M PARIS SCHUTZ.

ON THE SHOW TONIGHT -- >> NEGLECT IS NOT COST FREE.

>> LORI LIGHTFOOT UNVEILS NEXT YEAR'S CITY BUDGET PROPOSAL WITH WITH NO NEW TAXES OR FEES.

>> WE DON'T BELIEVE THAT A CONVICTION SHOULD FOLLOW ANYONE FOR LIFE, NO MATTER THE CONVICT.

THE CONVICTION.

>> THE FIRST PART OF OUR NEW SERIES, PERMANENT PUNISHMENT, ABOUT THE LAWS AND POLICIES AFFECTING PEOPLE WITH CRIMINAL RECORDS.

> >> THE SUPREME COURT FACES A RECORD LOW APPROVAL RATING AS JUSTICES HAD BACK TO THE BENCH.

WE TAKE A LOOK AT THIS TERM'S CASES AND THE CULTURE OF THE NATION'S HIGHEST COURT.

>> THE CITY'S RECYCLING RATE HAS HAS BEEN STUCK BELOW 10% SINCE 20 SEXTING.

>> AND OUR NEW SERIES, WT DW NEWS EXPLAINS TACKLES THE HISTORY OF RECYCLING IN CHICAGO.

CHICAGO.

PLUS, HEAR ABOUT EFFORTS TO IMPROVE THE CITY'S RECYCLING RATES.

> >> FIRST OFF, TODAY'S TOP STORIES, A COMMUNITY WORKING GROUP TASKED WITH REDUCING CHICAGO POLICE DEPARTMENT VIOLENCE HAS A NEW REPORT OUT.

IT HIGHLIGHTS CPD'S KEY POLICY CHANGES ABOUT USE OF FORCE AND ALSO POLICIES IT SAYS ARE STILL IN NEED OF CHANGE.

AMONG THE USE USE OF FORCE COMMUNITY WORKING GROUP'S RECOMMENDATIONS ARE PROHIBITING OFFICERS FROM POINTING A FIREARM AT SOMEONE NOT RESENTING AN IMMEDIATE THREAT, BANNING THE USE OF TASERS AGAINST CHILDREN IN SCHOOLS.

CHICAGO POLICE DEPARTMENT RELEASED ITS OWN REPORT TODAY ON ITS PROGRESS ON CONSENT DECREES OF COMPLIANCE.

THAT REPORT HIGHLIGHTED DEPARTMENT REFORMS AS FAR AS HIGHLIGHTING A PERMANENT FOOT PURSUIT POLICY AND TRAINING TO OFFICERS ON TOPICS LIKE DE-ESCALATION AND USE OF FORCE.

> >> HOUSING ADVOCATES PROTEST AT CITY HALL, DEMANDING CHICAGO PROVIDE A DEDICATED STREAM OF FUNDING TO TACKLE HOMELESSNESS.

THIS IS MAYOR LORI LIGHTFOOT REVEALED HER BUDGET PROPOSAL FOR FOR NEXT YEAR.

LIGHTFOOT INCLUDED $10 MILLION TO ADDRESS HOMELESSNESS AND PROVIDE OTHER SUPPORT SERVICES IN HER BUDGET, BUT ADVOCATES ARE CALLING ON LIGHTFOOT AND ALDER PEOPLE TO BACK A BALLOT MEASURE THAT WOULD WOULD RAISE THE REAL ESTATE TRANSFER TAX ON PROPERTIES OVER $1 MILLION BY NEARLY 2%.

THEY SAY THIS WOULD BRING IN $160 MILLION A YEAR IN SERVICES FOR PEOPLE EXPERIENCING HOMELESSNESS.

>> WHEN I SAW HOMELESS PEOPLE IN IN THE STREET, IT'S NOT MY PROBLEM, WHO CARES, THAT'S THEIR THEIR PROBLEM.

UNTIL I BECAME HOMELESS.

WHEN I BECAME HOMELESS HOMELESS I BEGAN TO SEE THE ISSUES, THE HOPELESSNESS THAT YOU FEEL WHEN YOU'RE HOMELESS, THE PRESSURE THAT YOU FEEL.

YOU NEED A HELPING HAND TO HELP YOU GET UP.

AND WHEN THERE IS NONE, YOU JUST LOSE MORE HOPE AND YOU JUST GIVE UP.

>> WE'LL BREAKDOWN THE MAYOR'S BUDGET PROPOSAL WITH REPORTER HEATHER SHARON COMING UP IN THE PROGRAM.

> >> IT'S OFFICIAL.

WHITE SOX MANAGER TONY LA RUSSA IS RETIRING DUE TO HEALTH ISSUES.

LARISSA, WHO LEFT HIS TEAM IN AUGUST TO ADDRESS HEART PROBLEMS DID NOT RETURN IN SEPTEMBER.

HE'S LEAVING AFTER TWO SEASONS WITH ONE YEAR LEFT ON HIS CONTRACT.

IN A STATEMENT, LARISSA SET UP A SEASON, QUOTE, THERE WERE SOME PLUSES BUT TOO MANY MINUSES.

RESPECT AND TRUST DEMAND ACCOUNTABILITY.

DURING MY MY MANAGERIAL CAREER I UNDERSTOOD THAT THE ULTIMATE RESPONSIBILITY FOR EACH MINUS BELONGS TO THE MANAGER.

OUR RECORD IS PROOF I DID NOT DO MY JOB.

LARUSSO, WHO TURNS 78 TOMO, 78 TOMORROW, RETIRES WITH 2901 IN A 35 YEAR MANAGERIAL CAREER THAT STARTED ON THE SOUTH SIDE DECK IN 1979.

HE WAS INDUCTED INTO THE BASEBALL HALL OF FAME AND 2014.

> >> TIME TO ADDRESS OUR NEW SURROUNDINGS.

AS YOU MAY HAVE GUESSED BY NOW, TONIGHT WE ARE DEBUTING OUR NEW SET, GRAPHICS, MUSIC AND SURROUNDING TECHNOLOGY , AND THE NUMBER ONE REASON FOR IT ALL, AN ENHANCED VIEWING EXPERIENCE FOR YOU.

>> IT'S ALL MEANT TO HELP US PRE US PROVIDE MORE VIVID STORYTELLING AND COMMUNITY DRIVEN REPORTING SO TECHNOLOGY WILL HELP US BE EVEN CLEARER AND AND MORE ENGAGING IN BRINGING YOU THE STORIES YOU WANT AND NEED, AND WE HOPE YOU LIKE IT.

> >> STILL TO COME, WE DEBUT OUR NEW FOUR-PART SERIES, PERMANENT PUNISHMENT.

IN IT, WE EXPLORE CRIMINAL RECORDS.

> >> UP NEXT, MAYOR LIGHTFOOT PRESENTS HER CITY BUDGET PROPOSAL, SO PLEASE STAY WITH U.

WITH US.

>> "CHICAGO TONIGHT" IS MADE POSSIBLE IN PART BY ALEXANDER AND JOHN NICHOLS.

THE GYM AND K MAYBE FAMILY.

THE POPE BROTHERS FOUNDATION AND THE SUPPORT OF THESE DONORS.

>> CHICAGO MAY BE FACING A BUDGET SHORTFALL OF MORE THAN $170 MILLION, BUT MAYOR LORI LIGHTFOOT'S PROPOSED BENDING PLAN FOR 2023 BRIDGES THE GAP WT GAP WITHOUT BRINGING A SWEAT THANKS TO BOOMING TAX REVENUES.

TAKE A LISTEN TO WHAT THE MAYOR SAID EARLIER TODAY.

>> AS YOU KNOW, BUDGETS ARE NOT JUST MATH PROBLEMS.

THEY ARE AND AND MUST BE VALUE STATEMENTS.

VALUE STATEMENTS ABOUT HOW AND WHY WE INVEST, AND IMPORTANTLY IN THIS CITY, WHERE WE INVEST.

>> BUT IT IS NOT CLEAR WHETHER THE PLAN FACES SMOOTH SAILING THROUGH CITY COUNCIL.

AND JOINING US NOW WITH THE DETAILS ON THE MAYOR'S ELECTION YOUR BUDGET IS WTTW NEWS REPORTER HEATHER SHARON.

SO GOOD TO SEE YOU IN PERSON.

THE LAST TIME WE TALKED ABOUT THE BUDGET, THE MAYOR HAD PROPOSED A $43 MILLION MILLION PROPERTY TAX HIKE TO KEEP PACE WITH INFLATION.

THAT OF COURSE HAS GONE -- LET'S LISTEN TO WHAT THE MAYOR SAID ABOUT THAT.

>> I'M ALSO HAPPY TO REPORT THAT THAT OUR 2022 REVENUES ARE COMING IN AT $260 MILLION BETTER BETTER THAN PROJECTED.

THAT'S A BIG DEAL AND YOU CAN CLAP FOR T. FOR THAT.

WHY IS THAT SO?

WHAT E WHAT HE HAVE SEEN IS THAT OUR CITY IS COMING BACK TO LIFE.

PEOPLE ARE COMING BACK DOWNTOWN FOR WORK AND LEISURE.

>> ALMOST LIKE THAT JEB BUSH PLEASE CLAP MOMENT, BUT HEATHER, HEATHER, THIS IS GOOD NEWS THE CITY IS TAKING MORE REVENUE IN THAN IT HAD PLANNED.

WHAT DOES IT MEAN FOR TAXPAYERS?

>> IT MEANS NO PROPERTY TAX HIKE.

IT MEANS NO NEW FEES AND IT MEANS NO NEW FINES.

THAT'S BECAUSE THE CITY, THE MAYOR SAYS, HAS FULLY RECOVERED FROM THE ECONOMIC CATASTROPHE OF THE COVID-19 PANDEMIC AND SHE'S CHOOSING NOT TO FORCE THIS THROUGH THE CITY COUNCIL, WHERE WHERE THERE WAS BIG OPPOSITION TO THAT PROPERTY TAX HIKE.

>> IT ALMOST SEEMS TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE.

THE CITY IS FLUSH WITH CASH RIGHT NOW PRESUMABLY BECAUSE OF A HOT REAL ESTATE MARKET, ALL THOSE TRANSFER TAXES, REAL ESTATE TAXES.

HOW DOES THE MAYOR WANT TO SPEND THAT EXTRA MONEY HE'LL >> SHE NEEDS TO TAKE $200 MILLION AND ESSENTIALLY PAID ON THE CITY'S PENSION CREDIT CARD.

SHE SAYS THAT WILL SAVE THE CITY BILLIONS DOWN THE LINE.

SHE ALSO WANTS TO INCREASE PUBLIC SAFETY SPENDING BY NEARLY $100 MILLION, $64 MILLION OF THAT WILL GO DIRECTLY TO THE CHICAGO POLICE DEPARTMENT.

>> JUST BOOSTING PUBLIC SAFETY SPENDING HERE, CPD IS ALWAYS A SOURCE OF CONTROVERSY, ESPECIALLY WHEN IT COMES TO THE BUDGET.

WHAT IS THE MAYOR PROPOSING?

>> THAT $64 MILLION WILL NOT GREATLY INCREASE THE SIZE OF THE THE DEPARTMENT, AS MANY MORE CONSERVATIVE MEMBERS OF THE CITY CITY COUNCIL HAVE CALLED FOR.

ABOUT 35 NEW POSITIONS.

HOWEVER, HOWEVER, SINCE POLICE DEPARTMENT'S TRANSIT DETAIL, WHICH IS RESPONSIBLE FOR KEEPING KEEPING CRIME IN CHECK ON CTA BUSES AND TRAINS WILL GET 20 MILLION MORE DOLLARS, WHICH IS AT A TIME WHEN THE MAYOR HAS BEEN UNDER SIGNIFICANT POLITICAL POLITICAL PRESSURE FOR HIGH PROFILE MURDERS, STABBINGS, AND ROBBERIES.

>> YOU AND I HAVE BOTH SEEN THE MAYOR'S PREVIOUS BUDGETS PASS.

THEY WERE TOUGHER BUDGETS THAN THIS, PRESUMABLY.

THEY PASSED WITH NOT HUGE MAJORITIES.

WHAT'S WHAT'S THE STATE OF THIS ONE, DO DO YOU THINK?

>> NOBODY WANTS TO HAVE A BIG FIGHT IN AN ELECTION YOUR.

THEY WANT TO GO OUT, THEY WANT TO CAMPAIGN.

THEY WANT TO TALK ABOUT ALL THE GOOD THINGS THAT THE CITY IS DOING.

HOWEVER, THEY THEY DO EXPECT PROGRESSIVE ALDER ALDER PEOPLE WILL WANT MORE SPENDING TO STRENGTHEN THE CITY'S SOCIAL SAFETY NET, WHICH OF COURSE WE ALL KNOW WOULD SEVERELY TAXED DURING THE PANDEMIC.

>> ON THE TOPIC OF THE SOCIAL SAFETY NET, I KNOW THERE WAS A PROTEST IN CITY HALL THIS MORNING ABOUT FUNDING FOR HOMELESSNESS.

WHAT DID THE PROTESTERS CALL FOR?

>> THEY WANT THE MAYOR TO GO TO SPRINGFIELD AND RAISE THE CITY'S CITY'S REAL ESTATE TRANSFER TAX TO BASICALLY HIT THE PROPERTIES WITH A SIGNIFICANTLY BIGGER FEE, FEE, WHEN THOSE PROPERTIES ARE SOLD OR BOUGHT.

NOW THE MAYOR HAS NOT ENDORSED THAT, ALTHOUGH SHE HAS PUT $10 MILLION MORE IN HER BUDGET FOR HOMELESSNESS, WHICH AFFECTS NEARLY 65,000 PEOPLE IN CHICAGO AND MORE THAN ENOUGH TO MAKE ITS OWN WARD.

>> THAT PROPOSAL HAS BEEN OUT THERE FOR A WHILE, THAT LITTLE EXTRA FEE AND THE TRANSFER TAX.

>> THE MAYOR ENDORSED IT IN HER 2019 MAYORAL CAMPAIGN, DROPPED IT ONCE SHE TOOK OFFICE.

>> SOME OF THOSE ADVOCATES HOLDING HER ACCOUNTABLE ON THAT ISSUE.

HEATHER SHARON, THANK YOU YOU SO MUCH, GLAD TO BE HERE.

> >> NOW TO BRANDISHING THE FIRST OF OUR FOUR PART SERIES ABOUT THE CHALLENGES FACED BY THOSE LEAVING PRISON TO FULLY PARTICIPATE IN SOCIETY.

>> IT'S A PROBLEM THAT AFFECTS AROUND 3.3 MILLION PEOPLE IN THE THE STATE OF ILLINOIS.

THE LONG-LASTING IMPACT OF A CRIMINAL RECORD.

THAT RECORD CAN CAN INCLUDE EVERYTHING FROM AN ARREST, NOT NECESSARILY EVEN A CONVICTION, TWO YEARS SPENT IN PRISON.

BUT EVEN ONES THAT CRIMINAL CASE HAS RUN ITS COURSE, IN THE LEGAL SYSTEM, OFTENTIMES THE PUNISHMENT CONTINUES.

THIS WEEK IN A FOUR PART WTTW NEWS SERIES, WE EXAMINE THE VARIOUS WAYS PEOPLE WITH CRIMINAL RECORDS ARE IMPACTED BY MISTAKES FROM YEARS AGO , EVEN AFTER THEY'VE PAID THEIR DEBT TO SOCIETY.

IT'S A LOOK AT WHAT WE ARE CALLING PERMANENT PUNISHMENT.

TONIGHT WE WE FOCUS ON THE PROBLEM ITSELF.

>> Reporter: YOU'RE LIKELY TO HAVE SOMETHING IN COMMON WITH 46-YEAR-OLD SUBURBAN WORKING DAD DAD MARLON CHAMBERLAIN.

>> WE WANT TO KEEP GOING THAT WAY OR GO BACK THIS WAY?

>> Reporter: HE'S A FATHER, A CAMPAIGN MANAGER FOR THE HEARTLAND ALLIANCE, A COLLEGE STUDENT STUDYING SOCIAL WORK, AND A HOMEOWNER IN GOLDEN, WHERE WHERE HE AND HIS WIFE, A PASTOR, PASTOR, RAISED FIVE OF THEIR EIT THEIR EIGHT CHILDREN.

IT'S A LONG WAY FROM THE LIFE CHAMBERLAIN LIVED 25 YEARS AGO.

>> I WAKE UP EVERY DAY LIKE IT'S IT'S JUST A BIG CELEBRATION, BECAUSE EVERY DAY I HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO BUILD NEW RELATIONSHIPS, TO LEARN NEW THINGS, TO GROW, AND FOR ME, THAT'S WHAT I LOVE TO DO.

>> Reporter: DESPITE ALL OF HIS SUCCESS TODAY, CHAMBERLAIN IS STILL HINDERED, LIMITED BY MISTAKES HE MADE SO LONG AGO.

>> >> I WAS ARRESTED SEPTEMBER 25t, SEPTEMBER 25th, 2002.

I'LL NEVER NEVER FORGET.

>> Reporter: THAT ARREST LED TO A CONVICTION AND 10 1/2 YEARS IN IN PRISON FOR FEDERAL DRUG CRIMES.

HE'S BEEN OUT OF PRISON FOR NEARLY 10 YEARS.

>> I HAD NO IDEA WHEN I WAS SENTENCED TO DO TIME THAT THE JUDGE DIDN'T SAY, EVEN ONCE YOU'RE RELEASED THERE'S INTEREST INTEREST THAT YOU HAVE TO PAY ON ON THESE DEBTS.

NO ONE EVER TOLD TOLD ME THAT.

>> Reporter: AND HERE'S WHAT THAT INTEREST LOOKS LIKE.

PEOPLE PEOPLE WITH CRIMINAL RECORDS HAVE TO FOLLOW.

LAWS, RULES, AND POLICIES POSTCONVICTION, WHETHER OR NOT THEY SERVED TIME IN PRISON.

AND THE RANGE IS WIDE.

ILLINOIS CODE 720 I LCS 5/1236 SAYS, QUOTE, IT IS UNLAWFUL FOR A PERSON CONVICTED OF A FORCIBLE FELONY TO KNOWINGLY OWN, POSSESS, HAVE CUSTODY OF, OR RESIDE IN A RESIDENCE WITH EITHER AN UN-SPAYED OR NEUTERED DOG.

THIS APPLIES TO SOME PEOPLE WITH CRUELTY TO ANIMALS CONVICTIONS, BUT ALSO THOSE WITH DRUG AND GUN GUN CONVICTIONS.

ILLINOIS CODE FOR 30 I LCS 85 TWO-20 PROHIBITS PROHIBITS WORKING FOR A CARNIVAL CARNIVAL OR AMUSEMENT PARK.

THIS THIS APPLIES TO THE RANGE OF ANYONE WITH SEX OR HOMICIDE RELATED OFFENSES.

AND ANYONE WITH A CRIMINAL CONVICTION CANNOT ENTER A BINGO HALL.

>> IF I'M SOMEWHERE WITH MY AUNTIE AT A CHURCH, AT A BINGO GAME, I'M SUBJECT TO WHERE I COULD BE ARRESTED FOR BEING ON THE PREMISES OF A BINGO GAME.

>> >> Reporter: BUT THEN THERE ARE THOSE THAT HIT HOME.

IN CHAMBERLAIN'S CASE -- >> LAST YEAR MY FATHER PASSED AWAY.

HE APPOINTED ME AS THE EXECUTOR OVER HIS ESTATE, BUT BECAUSE OF MY 25-YEAR-OLD CONVICTION, I WASN'T ABLE TO CARRY OUT MY FATHER'S LAST WISHES.

>> Reporter: THE STATE'S 1975 PE 1975 PROBATE ACT PROHIBITS ANYONE WITH A FELONY CONVICTION FROM SERVING AS EXECUTOR OR ADMINISTRATOR OVER AN ESTATE.

CHAMBERLAIN SAYS IT IMPACTS MORE MORE THAN 600,000 PEOPLE IN ILLINOIS.

>> PUT THEM ON THE STABLE.

>> Reporter: HE KNOWS THIS BECAUSE HE RUNS THE HEARTLAND ALLIANCE'S FULLY FREE CAMPAIGN, AN EFFORT TO UNROLL JUST SOME OF OF THE ESTIMATED 1300 STATE LAWS LAWS THAT CONTINUE TO IMPACT PEOPLE WITH CRIMINAL RECORDS, INCLUDING THE PROBATE ACT.

UNIVERSITY OF CHICAGO PROFESSOR AND AUTHOR RUBEN JONATHAN MILLER MILLER CALLS IT AN ALTERNATE LEGAL REALITY THAT ONLY APPLIES TO THIS POPULATION.

>> THEY RETURN TO A WORLD IN WHICH THERE ARE 44,000 LAWS, POLICIES, AND ADMINISTRATIVE SANCTIONS THAT PREVENT PEOPLE WH PEOPLE WITH TERMINAL RECORDS FROM FULLY PARTICIPATING IN THE ECONOMY, FROM FULLY PARTICIPATING EVEN IN FAMILY LIFE.

44,000.

AND 19,000 LABOR MARKET RESTRICTIONS IN THE COUNTRY.

19,000.

>> Reporter: THAT'S 44,000 LAWS ACROSS THE 50 STATES, AND ABOUT 1300 IN ILLINOIS ALONE.

>> THE PROBLEM IS THAT 100 YEARS YEARS OF CRIMINOLOGICAL RESEARCH RESEARCH TELLS US SOMETHING QUITE SIMPLE.

IT'S THAT FOR CLARITY LEADS TO MORE CRIME.

HAY CRIME.

HARRITY LEADS TO MORE VIOLENCE, THINGS LIKE HOUSING INSTABILITY, UNEMPLOYMENT, LIMITED ACCESS TO CARE, MEDICAL CARE, SUBSTANCE ABUSE TREATMENT.

TREATMENT.

WHEN WE BREAK BONDS WITH PEOPLE'S FAMILIES.

THE LITERATURE TELLS US THAT ALL THESE THINGS LEAD TO MORE CRIME AND MORE VIOLENCE, NOT LESS.

>> Reporter: THESE PERMANENT PUNISHMENTS AFFECT NO SMALL PART PART OF THE POPULATION.

IN ILLINOIS, 3.3 MILLION RESIDENTS OF THE STATE'S 12.7 MILLION ARE ESTIMATED TO HAVE TERMINAL RECORDS.

OF THEM, 584,000 HAVE FELONY CONVICTIONS.

NATIONWIDE, THAT NUMBER IS 19.6 MILLION AMERICANS ESTIMATED TO HAVE A FELONY RECORD.

>> WHEN THERE'S INTEREST IN A CRIME QUESTION, THE RESPONSE IS ALWAYS PUNISHMENT.

OUR PRIORITY IS THAT EXCLUSION LEADS TO MORE CRIME, SAID PEOPLE ENGAGE IN ACTS OF CRIME AND CRIMINALITY, EXCLUDING THEM BREEDS MORE CRIME CRIME AND MORE CRIMINALITY.

>> Reporter: THEN THERE ARE THE DEFECTIVE LAWS, ONES THAT AREN'T AREN'T ON BOOKS BUT HAVING ANYW, HAVING ANYWAY, HAVING PRETTY MUCH THE SAME IMPACT.

IN THE CASE OF 52-YEAR-OLD JAVIER REYES, HE INITIALLY STRUGGLED TO TO FIND WORK IN HOUSING AFTER HIS RELEASE FROM FEDERAL PRISON FOR CONSPIRACY TO COMMIT BANK ROBBERY.

>> YOU CAN ONLY LIVE IN CERTAINS CERTAIN AREAS AND THOSE ARE DISENFRANCHISED COMMUNITIES.

IF I WAS GOING TO ST. CHARLES, NAPERVILLE, I COULDN'T RENT AN APARTMENT.

THEY DO BACKGROUND CHECKS, VERSUS IF I GO TO ANYWHERE IN THE LOWER INCOME HOUSING, THEY WANT TO DO A BACKGROUND CHECK IS THAT'S THE KIND OF PEOPLE THEY EXPECT THERE.

SO I TRIED TO LIVE IN A GOOD PLACE AND I WAS TURNED DOWR DOWN FOUR TIMES ON APPLICATION.

>> Reporter: TODAY, REYES MANAGES THE 20 UNIT BUILDING WHERE HE LIVES IN AURORA, WORKING OTHER ODD JOBS TO PAY HIS BILLS.

IT IS HIM TIME TO WORK ON HIS NONPROFIT, CHALLENGE CHALLENGE TO CHANGE.

THE GOAL IS IS TO HELP OTHERS TO RETURN TO THE COMMUNITY, GET BACK ON THEIR THEIR FEET, TOO.

>> ONCE YOU'RE A FELON IT'S ALMOST LIKE YOU'RE NEVER FORGIVEN.

NO MATTER HOW MUCH TIME YOU DO, YOU CAN NEVER BE VINDICATED.

YOU'RE NOT FULLY FREE.

NONE OF YOUR RIGHTS ARE REALLY, FULLY RESTORED, NO MATTER ON A TAXPAYER, NO MATTER I'M A LAW-ABIDING CITIZEN, NO MATTER I'M A HUSBAND, A FATHER, THAT FELON TRUMPS EVERYTHING ELSE.

>> Reporter: HE'S IN COMPANY WITH MARVIN CHAMBERLAIN, WHO HOPES HIS WORK WITH THE FULLY FREE CAMPAIGN WILL MAKE CHANGE FOR THE THOUSANDS OF MEN AND WOMEN FACING PERMANENT PUNISHMENT.

>> AND SO YES, I'M STILL IMPACTED BY DECISIONS THAT I MADE YEARS AGO, BUT I'M ALSO LEAVING THE PAST TO PUSH FORWARD FORWARD IN THE THINGS THAT I'VE LEARNED, TO BUILD RELATIONSHIPS, RELATIONSHIPS, TO BUILD A MOVEMENT, TO CREATE THE WORLD WE WE ALL WANT TO SEE.

>> AND JOINING US NOW WITH MORE ON THE PLIGHT OF THE FORMERLY INCARCERATED ARE WILLETTE BENFORD, DIRECTOR OF REENTRY FOR FOR THE CITY OF CHICAGO, SETH JOHNSON, AN ATTORNEY WITH RIGHTS RIGHTS AND RESTORATION LOT GROUP, AND BILL JENKINS, AN ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR AT DOMINICAN DOMINICAN UNIVERSITY IN RIVER FOREST.

THANKS TO THE THREE OF YOU FOR JOINING US.

SETH JOHNSON, LET'S START WITH YOU, PLEASE.

WE HEARD ABOUT THE IMPACT OF SOME OF THESE LAWS ON CHICAGOANS.

YOU'VE DONE SOME RESEARCH.

GIVE US A SENSE OF THE THE RANGE OF THESE BARRIERS.

>> OUR RESEARCH WAS GEARED TO SUPPORT THE LEADERS OF FULLY FREE, BECAUSE THEY TRULY ARE THE THE ONES WHO HAD EXPERIENCE IN FACING THOSE BARRIERS.

OUR ROLE WAS TO LOOK AT HOW THE LAWS OPERATED AND WHAT THEY SAID, WHAT THEY CREATED OR DIDN'T IN TERMS OF BARRIERS.

THEY RUN FROM FROM COMMON BARRIERS SUCH AS EMPLOYMENT, WHICH EVERYONE THINKS OF, BUT THEY STRETCH ALL THE WAY EVEN TO VOLUNTEERING AND AND CIVIC ENGAGEMENT, SITTING ON ON A LOCAL SCHOOL COUNCIL, BEING BEING ON THE BOARD OF TRUSTEES.

AND IT ALSO IMPACTS AS MENTIONED, AROUND YOUR FAMILY AND THEIR ABILITY TO ENGAGE IN THEIR LIFE, AS WELL.

IT REALLY DOES RUN A FAR RANGE OF LAWS.

>> >> BILL JENKINS, DO YOU THINK ANY OF THESE LAWS IMPACT PUBLIC SAFETY?

>> CLEARLY PROBABLY NOT.

NOW I'M I'M NOT AN EXPERT ON THAT, BUT I I DO WANT TO SAY THAT AS A CRIMM CRIME VICTIM SURVIVOR, MY SON WAS SHOT AND KILLED IN 1997.

I KNOW PAIN.

I KNOW MISERY.

AND GRIEF.

AND I JUST WANT TO SAY THAT MY HEART REALLY GOES OUT TO TO MANY OF THESE PEOPLE WHO HAVE HAVE NOT BEEN TREATED WITH DIGNITY AND HAVE BEEN DISENFRANCHISED BY THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM.

MUCH OF THIS IS JUST NOT FAIR, AND OKAY, IF YOU WANT TO PULL SOME WEEDS IN YOUR GARDEN, YOU DON'T USE A BULLDOZER TO COME THROUGH AND PLOW THE WHOLE THING UP.

I FEEL THAT SO MANY TIMES THE GOVERNMENT USES THE BULLDOZER APPROACH RATHER THAN THE OFTEN MORE TIME-CONSUMING, AND MORE EE MORE EXPENSIVE, BUT GENERALLY MORE JUST VERSION OF PULLING THS THE WEEDS BY TAKING CASE TO CASE CASE BASIS AND LOOKING AT THINGS THINGS INDIVIDUALLY, MORE AS -- INSTEAD OF LUMPING PEOPLE TOGETHER AS A GROUP.

>> SORRY TO HEAR THE LOSS OF YOUR SON IN '97.

WILLETTE BENFORD, HOW DO YOU THINK THESE LAWS IMPACT PEOPLE WITH A CRIMINAL RECORD?

>> WELL, THE LAWS NOT ONLY IMPACT PEOPLE LIKE BETH SAID, FROM A SMALL RANGE, ALL THE WAY ACROSS TO CIVIC ENGAGEMENT, BUT THEY IMPACT INDIVIDUALS EVEN IN LICENSING, LIKE GAMING.

YOU CAN'T BE ON A GAMING COMMISSION IF YOU HAVE A FELONY CONVICTION.

CONVICTION.

IT'S NOT ONLY JUST ABOUT HOUSING OR JUST ABOUT EMPLOYMENT.

IT'S ABOUT REALLY EG REALLY ELIMINATING POVERTY.

THESE LAWS THAT ARE ON THE BOOKS REALLY CONTINUE TO EXACERBATE POVERTY IN BLACK AND BROWN COMMUNITIES.

WE TALK ABOUT PERMANENT PUNISHMENT.

OF COURSE IT IMPACTS OTHER DEMOGRAPHICS, BUT BLACK PEOPLE ARE THE ONES THAT ARE MOST IMPACTED BY MASS INCARCERATION.

SO THE LAWS REALLY IMPACT YOU AS FAR AS POVERTY AND BEING ABLE TO HAVE ECONOMIC MOBILITY WITHIN THE CITY.

>> TELL US BRIEFLY ABOUT YOUR EXPERIENCE.

OBVIOUSLY YOU ARE RIGHT FOR THE JOB AS DIRECTOR OF OF REENTRY FOR THE CITY BECAUSE OF YOUR NEXT VARIANCE WITH INCARCERATION.

BUT HOW ARE THOSE THOSE LAWS -- HOW DOES ALL OF THAT IMPACT YOU WHEN YOU REENTERED?

>> WHEN I REENTERED, BRANDIS, INITIALLY I WENT THROUGH A TRAN.

A TRANSITION.

A LOT OF TIMES YOU YOU THINK IF YOU DO THE RIGHT THING, THEN THE RIGHT THING WILL WILL FOLLOW.

BUT I WAS DENIED HOUSING, ALTHOUGH I WAS FULLY EMPLOYED AT THE CITY OF CHICAGO.

CHICAGO.

I WAS DENIED HOUSING AND IT WAS BECAUSE OF A 25-YEAR-OLD CONVICTION, LIKE ROBIN SAID.

BUT YOU KNOW, IT REALLY CATAPULTED ME INTO THE WORK, BECAUSE I WAS ABLE TO ADVOCATE FOR MYSELF THROUGH THE JUST HOUSING ORDINANCE IN COOK COUNTY, WHICH MADE IT ILLEGAL TO TO DENY ME HOUSING BASED OFF MY BACKGROUND.

SO AS I ADVOCATED FOR MYSELF, I SAW HOW MANY OTHER OTHER WOMEN HAVE BEEN TOLD NO, JUST BASED OFF OF THEIR BACKGROUND.

SO THAT PUSHED ME INTO THE WORK.

>> TO THAT END, HOW DO PEOPLE WITH RECORDS OF AS THEY'RE COMING HOME OR MAYBE THEY WEREN'T INCARCERATED.

MAYBE IT S IT WAS PROBATION OR JUST AN ARREST.

HOW DO THEY DISCOVER THAT THESE LAWS AND POLICIES -- BECAUSE NOT EVERYTHING IS WRITTEN INTO CODE, BUT HOW DO THEY FIND OUT?

HOW DO THEY LEARN LEARN THAT THIS AFFECTS THEM?

>> >> OFTEN THE EXPERIENCE OF BEIND BEING DENIED AN OPPORTUNITY IS HOW YOU FIND OUT.

IT'S A REACTION EVERYTHING.

YOU DON'T REALIZE THAT THERE MIGHT BE A POLICY OR A LAW IN PLACE THAT PREVENTS YOU FROM ENTERING WHATEVER IT IS YOU'RE TRYING TO DO.

AS A LAWYER PRACTICING IN THIS AREA 17 YEARS, I DON'T EVEN EVEN KNOW ALL THE LAWS AND CARRIERS, HOW WE CAN EXPECT OTHERS TO NAVIGATE THAT IS A PRETTY HIGH BURDEN TO PLACE ON .

ON FOLKS.

>> BILL, WHAT WOULD YOU SAY IS THE IMPORTANCE OF FACILITATING CONVERSATIONS BETWEEN VICTIMS OF OF CRIME AND THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE HAVE BEEN CONVICTED OF COMMITTING A CRIME?

>> WELL WE CALL THAT RESTORATIVE RESTORATIVE JUSTICE, AND WE USED THIS -- COOK COUNTY HAS A STRONG RESTORATIVE JUSTICE PROGM JUSTICE PROGRAM IN THE JUVENILE JUSTICE SYSTEM THERE.

MY WIFE AND I HAVE SPOKEN TO JUVENILE OFFENDERS AND TRIED TO PUT A FACE ON VICTIMS TO HELP THEM UNDERSTAND JUST THE CONSEQUENCEF CONSEQUENCES OF THEIR ACTIONS.

AND I BELIEVE IT WORKS, BECAUSE WE'VE RELEASING THE IMPACT OF TT OF THAT, AND OF COURSE A LOT OF THIS DEPENDS ON WHAT THE VICTIM IS ABLE AND WILLING TO DO, AND IN SOME CASES WE DON'T ADVOCATE FOR IT AT ALL, LIKE SEXUAL ASSAULT, THINGS LIKE THAT, BUT T THE SAME TIME, IT HAS PROVEN TO BE VERY HELPFUL, NOT ONLY FOR THE OFFENDER, BUT ALSO FOR THE VICTIMS TO BRING SOME SENSE OF RESTORATION AND SOME SENSE OF RF OF RELIEF.

THE IMPORTANT THING S THING IS TO ACKNOWLEDGE THE HARM HARM THAT'S BEEN DONE, TO FIGURE FIGURE OUT HOW RESTORATION COULD COULD BE MADE, IF THAT IS POSSIBLE, AND THEN TO TRY TO WORK ON WAYS TO REINTEGRATE THE OFFENDER WITH SOCIETY, WHICH MEANS NOW IT'S NOT JUST THE OFFENDER AND THE VICTIM WHO AREG ARE TALKING.

NOW IT'S THE OFFENDER AND THE ENTIRE SOCIETY.

SOCIETY.

HOW ARE WE GOING TO GET GET THIS PERSON BACK TO WORK SO THEY ARE ACTUALLY ABLE TO MAKE MONEY AND SURVIVE, AND FEED THEIR FAMILIES, OR SURVIVE THEMSELVES?

HOW DO WE REMOVE THE THE ENVIRONMENT THAT MAY BE CONTRIBUTED TO THEM BEING INVOLVED IN CRIMINAL ACTIVITY AND ENABLED THEM, IN THE FIRST PLACE?

HOW DO WE GET THEM THE EDUCATIONAL SERVICES AND ALL THOSE THINGS?

SO THESE ARE COMMUNITY LEVEL CONVERSATIONS THAT HAVE TO TAKE PLACE, AS WELL.

>> WE ALSO HEARD ABOUT THE DEFECTIVE PUNISHMENTS, OF COURSE, HOBBY OR REYES AND THE BACKGROUND CHECKS WERE LIMITING HIS HOUSING OPPORTUNITIES, WHERE WHERE HE COULD LIVE.

BUT THERE ARE ALSO SOME GRAY AREAS YOU FOUND IN YOUR RESEARCH.

WHAT ELSE NEEDS TO BE RESEARCHED AROUND THESE LAWS OR POLICIES?

>> WHEN THEY ARE LOOKING AT THE LAWS AND POLICIES, THERE IS OFTEN DISCUSSION BUILT IN WHERE A DECISION-MAKER, AN AGENCY, AN INDIVIDUAL CAN USE A RECORD BUT THEY'RE NOT GIVEN GUIDANCE ON WHAT TO USE NOR ARE THE INDIVIDUALS GIVEN GUIDANCE ON WHAT TO SHOW TO OVERCOME THE DISCRETIONARY BARRIER.

SO THAT IS VERY DIFFICULT FOR FOLKS TO NAVIGATE, TO KNOW WHAT THEY SHOULD BE PRESENT IN.

I THINK OUR LAWS ALSO DO REALLY BROADBRUSH APPROACHES, CRIMES OF OF MORAL TURPITUDE.

LIKE WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

WE ALL WONDER.

AND ITS LEFT TO INTERPRETATION AGAIN BY PEOPLE MAKING THIS DECISION THAT REALLY ARE THE GATEWAY THAT SOMEBODY NEEDS TO WALK THROUGH TO THAT OPPORTUNITY.

AND THAT DISCRETION DISCRETION IS A VERY POWERFUL TOOL THAT CAN BE USED IN VERY INAPPROPRIATE WAYS AS PEOPLE DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY A RECORD MIGHT EXIST OR THE NUANCES BEHIND THAT.

>> WE ALSO HEARD FROM A LOT OF THE FOLKS THAT WE MET IN REPORTING THIS SERIES THAT THEY'VE GOT THEIR OWN NARRATIVES NARRATIVES RATHER THAN ALL BEING BEING LUMPED INTO ONE, AS BILL SAID.

WILLETT, BEFORE WE LET YOU YOU GO, WHAT ELSE NEEDS TO BE DONE TO ELIMINATE SOME OF THESE BARRIERS?

>> LIKE YOU SAID, BRANDIS, THERE'S 3.3 MILLION INDIVIDUALS WITH A CRIMINAL CONVICTION OR AN AN ARREST.

ALL OF THEM IN THE STATE OF ILLINOIS ARE ALLOWED TO TO VOTE.

YOU KNOW, FULLY FREE CAMPAIGN WANTS TO BUILD A VOTING VOTING BLOCK SO THAT INDIVIDUALS INDIVIDUALS CAN PARTICIPATE IN THE POLITICAL PROCESS THAT AFFECTS THEIR LIVES, AND IN PARTICIPATING IN THAT, THE ELECTED OFFICIALS THAT ARE CALLED TO REPRESENT US CAN BEGIN BEGIN TO MAKE SOME CHANGES WITH POLICY.

MY OFFICE SITS IN THE POLICY DEPARTMENT IN THE CITY OF OF CHICAGO.

SO BEING ABLE TO CHANGE POLICY, THAT REALLY AFFECTS PEOPLE THAT ARE RETURNING RESIDENTS.

IT'S KEY.

O KEY.

SO TO GET INVOLVED IN THE POLITICAL PROCESS, THAT NEEDS TO TO CHANGE.

>> THAT'S WHERE WE'LL HAVE TO LEAVE IT.

THANKS TO ALL OF YOU FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU.

> >> UP NEXT, FOR MORE OF TODAY'S TOP STORIES, AND STAY TUNED LATER TONIGHT FOR THE DEBUT OF OUR NEWER ANIMATED SERIES, WTTW NEWS EXPLAINS .

> >> STILL TO COME ON "CHICAGO TONIGHT", A BRIEF HISTORY OF RECYCLING IN CHICAGO AND WHAT'S WHAT'S BEING DONE TO IMPROVE THE THE CITY'S RECYCLING RATE.

> >> AND SUPREME COURT JUSTICES RETURNING TO THE BENCH FACING CONTROVERSIAL CASES AND RECORD LOW APPROVAL RATINGS.

> >> BUT FIRST, SOME MORE OF TODAY'S TOP STORIES.

FIVE PEOPLE PEOPLE WERE KILLED BY GUN VIOLENCE IN CHICAGO OVER THE WEEKEND.

AMONG THE DEAD, THREE-D DEAD, THREE-YEAR-OLD MATEO ZASTRO, WHO WAS FATALLY SHOT DURING AN APPARENT ROAD RAGE INCIDENT IN WEST LAWN, ACCORDING ACCORDING TO POLICE.

>> A THREE-YEAR-OLD'S LIFE WAS N WAS TAKEN FOR NO REASON, IN A ROAD RAGE INCIDENT.

THIS SHOULD NEVER HAVE ESCALATED TO GUN VIO.

GUN VIOLENCE.

>> Reporter: POLICE SAY A WOMAN WAS DRIVING FRIDAY NIGHT WITH HER THREE-YEAR-OLD SON AND THREE THREE OTHER CHILDREN WHEN A MAN INSIDE ANOTHER VEHICLE FIRED THE THE SHOTS.

THE BOY WAS STRUCK IN IN THE HEAD AND WAS RUSHED TO A NEARBY HOSPITAL, WHERE HE LATER DIED.

POLICE DO NOT CURRENTLY HAVE ANYONE IN CUSTODY RELATED TO THE SHOOTING.

> >> HOUSING ADVOCATES PROTEST AT CITY HALL, DEMANDING CHICAGO PROVIDE A DEDICATED STREAM OF FUNDING TO TACKLE HOMELESSNESS.

THIS IS MAYOR LORI LIGHTFOOT REVEALED HER BUDGET PROPOSAL FOR FOR NEXT YEAR.

LIGHTFOOT INCLUDED $10 MILLION TO ADDRESS HOMELESSNESS AND PROVIDE OTHER SUPPORT SERVICES IN HER BUDGET.

BUT ADVOCATES ARE CALLING ON LIGHTFOOT AND OLDER PEOPLE TO BACK A BALLOT MEASURE THAT WOULD WOULD RAISE THE REAL ESTATE TRANSFER TAX ON PROPERTIES OVER $1 MILLION BY NEARLY 2%.

THEY SAY THIS WOULD BRING IN $160 MILLION A YEAR IN SERVICES FOR PEOPLE EXPERIENCING HOMELESSNES.

EXPERIENCING HOMELESSNESS.

> >> U.S.

SENATOR DURBIN IS ANNOUNCING FEDERAL FUNDING FOR A A LEGAL CENTER IN NORTH LAWNDALE.

THE LAWNDALE CHRISTIAN CHRISTIAN LEGAL CENTER OFFERS COMMUNITY-BASED LEGAL SERVICES TO TEENS AND YOUNG ADULTS IN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD.

>> THE LAWNDALE CHRISTIAN LEGALR LEGAL CENTER SOUNDS LIKE LAWYERS LAWYERS MEETING WITH CLIENTS.

IT IT IS MUCH MORE THAN THAT, AND THAT'S WHY IT IS SUCCESSFUL.

IT IS PEOPLE WHO CARE, SOME WITH LAW DEGREES, OTHERS WITH EDUCATION AND EXPERIENCE, WHO MEET WITH THESE YOUNG PEOPLE AND AND TRY TO FIND A WAY TO TURN THEIR LIVES AROUND.

>> AND THE HUNT IS ON FOR THE CITY'S OFFICIAL CHRISTMAS TREE.

THE CRITERIA, IT HAS TO BE 45 FEET OR TALLER AND LOCATED WITHIN 50 MILES OF THE LOOP, WITH PREFERENCE GIVEN TO A NORWAY SPRUCE OR FOR TREE.

NOMINATIONS ARE UNDER OPEN THROUGH FRIDAY.

THE SELECTED TREE WILL SERVE AS THE CENTERPIECE OF CHICAGO'S OFFICIAL HOLIDAY CELEBRATION IN MILLENNIUM PARK.

YOU CAN FIND MORE INFORMATION ABOUT SENDING TREE SUBMISSIONS ON OUR WEBSITE.

WEBSITE.

> >> NOW BRANDIS, WE TOSS IT BACK TO YOU.

>> PARIS, THANK YOU.

TONIGHT WE LAUNCH A NEW DIGITAL SERIES, WTTW NEWS EXPLAINS.

WE ARE TAKING ON THE CHALLENGE OF BOILING DOWN COMPLEX ISSUES INTO INTO BITE SIZED, UNDERSTANDABLE, AND USEFUL INFORMATION.

IN THE COMING WEEKS WEEKS WE'LL FIND OUT WHAT HAPPENS TO YOUR BALLOT ONCE YOU PUT IT IN THE BOX, HOW YOUR PROPERTY TAXES ARE DETERMINED ON ON AND HOW TO NAVIGATE THE CHICAGO GRID SYSTEM.

THIS EVENING WE KICK THINGS OFF WITH WTTW NEWS REPORTER PATTY WHITLEY, WHO IS HERE TO DROP SOME KNOWLEDGE ABOUT CHICAGO'S RECYCLING EFFORTS, AND PATTY JOINS US NOW.

PATTY, IT'S GOOD TO SEE YOU IN PERSON, HERE IN THE STUDIO.

>> I EXIST.

>> YOU EXIST.

YOU'RE NOT A BOX.

>> THAT'S AWESOME.

>> SO BRANDIS, RECYCLING IS ONE OF THOSE STORIES WE KEEP COMING BACK TO AGAIN AND AGAIN, SO WE THOUGHT IT WAS THE PERFECT TOPIC TOPIC TO DIVE INTO FOR THE FIRST FIRST EPISODE IN OUR DIGITAL SE, DIGITAL SERIES, WTTW NEWS EXPLAINS.

WE THOUGHT WE'D TAKE A A LOOK AT HOW WE GOT HERE .

>> Reporter: CHICAGO MAY BE A WORLD-CLASS CITY, BUT WHEN IT COMES TO RECYCLING, LET'S JUST SAY IT ISN'T WINNING ANY AWARDS.

AWARDS.

THE CITY'S RECYCLING RATE HAS BEEN STUCK BELOW 10% SINCE 2016.

HOW BAD IS THAT?

BASES LIKE SAN FRANCISCO AND L.A.

CLAIM TO KEEP 80% OF THEIR WASTE OUT OF LANDFILLS.

SO WHAT WENT WRONG HERE?

LET'S TAKE A DP A DEEP DUMPSTER DIVE.

FLASH BACK BACK TO THE 1990S.

CHICAGO FIRST FIRST TRIED RECYCLING WITH THE BLUE BAG PROGRAM.

ALONG WITH THE THE USUAL CHARGES OF CORRUPTION, CORRUPTION, THE PROGRAM HAD A SERIOUS IMAGE PROBLEM WHEN PEOPE WHEN PEOPLE SAW BLUE BAGS OF RECYCLING COLLECTED IN THE SAME TRUCKS AS TRASH.

CHICAGOANS SMELLED A RAT.

WAS ANYTHING ACTUALLY BEING RECYCLED?

BLUE BAGS WERE SCRAPPED AND FAST-FORWARD TO 2007 WHEN THE CITY ROLLED OUT BLUE CARTS.

ONLY ONLY THE RESIDENT'S WITH FOUR UNITS OR FEWER.

TOUGH LUCK, HIGH HIGH RISERS.

AT FIRST BLUE CARD RECYCLING SEEMED EASY.

INSTEAD OF SEPARATING PAPER, PLASTIC, ALUMINUM AND GLASS, EVERYTHING GOES INTO A SINGLE BEEN.

THIS METHOD IS CALLED SINGLE STREAM, WHERE THE SORTING HAPPENS ON THE THE BACKEND.

SINGLE STREAM IS POPULAR BECAUSE IT'S SIMPLE, BUT BUT IT HAS SOME MAJOR FLAWS.

FOR FOR STARTERS, SOME PEOPLE TOOK EVERYTHING GOES A LITTLE TOO LITERALLY, TOSSING THINGS LIKE BOWLING BALLS AND LUMBER INTO THEIR CARTS, WHICH WAS, FOR THE RECORD, NOT RECYCLABLE.

ANOTHER PROBLEM WITH SINGLE STREAM IS CONTAMINATION.

CONTAMINATION CAN CAN RUIN AN ENTIRE LOAD OF RECYCLABLES.

THAT'S WHY THE MOSL MOST SUCCESSFUL PROGRAMS SEPARATE WASTE.

WHEN THE CITY TRIED TO STOP CONTAMINATION, RECYCLING GOT MORE COMPLICATED, SINCE LOTS OF THINGS CAN'T GO IN IN THE CART.

CHICAGOANS SMELLED A RAT AGAIN.

IS ANYTHING ACTUALLY BEING RECYCLED?

THE CITY HAS TRIED TO TAKE THIS RUNAWAY RECYCLING TRAIN BACK ON TRACK INCLUDING ITS 2017 TO BASICS CAMPAIGN AND A NEW VENDO.

VENDOR CONTRACT.

BUT IS IT TOO LITTLE, TOO LATE?

THE MARKET FOR FOR RECYCLABLES HAS PLUMMETED AND THE FUTURE OF WASTE MANAGEMENT IS LOOKING MORE AND MORE LIKE COMPOSTING.

MAYBE THIS THIS TIME CHICAGO WILL GET IT R. IT RIGHT.

>> SO BRANDIS, THAT'S A QUICK LAY OF THE LANDFILL.

SO TO SPEAK.

>> I SEE WHAT YOU DID THERE.

I KNOW CHICAGO'S RECYCLING HISTORY HISTORY IS MORE COLLOCATED THAN WE COULD SQUEEZE INTO THESE TWO MINUTES.

WHAT OTHER FORCES COME INTO PLAY?

>> WE'VE TRIED TO SHOW THAT THERE WAS DEFINITELY SOME SKEPTICISM GOING INTO IT, AND THAT CHICAGO NEEDED TO HIT A HOME RUN WITH THE BLUE CARTS PROGRAM, AND DIDN'T.

THAT'S ONE PART OF THE PROBLEM.

THE OTHER IS THAT THERE ARE SYSTEMIC ISSUES WITH RECYCLING.

THERE'S THE ANGLE OF WHO'S BUYING THE MATERIALS AND HOW PRISTINE THEY NEED THEM TO BE, AND THE FACT THAT REDUCE AND REUSE SHOULD BE AS BIG, IF NOT A BIGGER PART OF THE EQUATION THEN RECYCLING.

AND AND I KNOW WE ARE GOING TO TALK ABOUT ALL OF THAT IN OUR PANEL COMING UP, BUT YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT NECESSARILY ALL CHICAGO'S FAULT.

RECYCLING HAS A LOT OF ISSUES.

WE JUST LAID OUT SOME OF OF THE SIMPLE ONES.

>> BIG PROBLEM.

PATTY WHITLEY, GOOD TO HAVE YOU IN PERSON.

> >> AND NOW TO PARIS AND A LOOK AT THE PRESENT AND FUTURE OF RECYCLING IN CHICAGO.

>> AS WE JUST HEARD, CHICAGO HAS HAS HAD A BIT OF A TORTURED RELATIONSHIP WITH RECYCLING.

CITY LEADERS HAVE SCRAPPED ALL PROGRAMS AND REPLACED THEM WITH NEW ONES BUT THE RESULTS HAVE REMAINED THE SAME.

RECYCLING RATES IN THE SINGLE DIGITS.

JOINING US NOW TO TALK ABOUT HOW HOW THE CITY CAN DO BETTER MOVING FORWARD ARE JENNIFER WALLING, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE ILLINOIS ENVIRONMENTAL COUNL ENVIRONMENTAL COUNCIL, MICHELLE THOMA, PRESIDENT OF THE CHICAGO RECYCLING COALITION, AND ANGELA TOVAR, CHIEF SUSTAINABILITY OFFICER FOR THE CITY OF CHICAGO.

CHICAGO.

WE DID REACH OUT TO LAKESHORE RECYCLING SYSTEM, WHICH NOW MANAGES THE CITY'S BLUE BEEN RECYCLING PROGRAM, BUT BUT THEY WERE UNABLE TO JOIN US THIS EVENING.

WE ARE GLAD THAT ALL OF YOU ARE HERE TODAY IN PERSON AND ON ZOOM.

JEN WAHL IN, IN, I'LL START WITH YOU.

BRIEFLY BRIEFLY REMIND US WHY THE BLUE BAG PROGRAM FROM SO MANY YEARS AGO WENT SO WRONG.

>> I THINK CHICAGO IS REALLY SUFFERING FROM A TRUST ISSUE WHEN IT HAS TO DO WITH THE RECYCLING AND TRASH ISSUE.

THE BLUE BIN PROGRAM WE SAW ON THE O THE VIDEO, FOLKS WERE PUTTING THINGS IN THE BLUE BAGS WHICH WERE BURSTING OPEN AND THE RECYCLABLES WERE GOING INTO THE TRASH.

PEOPLE WEREN'T TRUSTING THE HAND SORTING SYSTEM THAT WAS WAS GOING ON.

ALL SORTS OF PROBLEMS WERE GOING ON WITH THE BLUE BAG SYSTEM THAT I THINK LAID THE FOUNDATION FOR CHICAGOANS TO NOT TRUST OUR RECYCLING SYSTEM.

>> THE BLUE CART SYSTEM WAS SUPPOSED TO SOLVE A LOT OF THOSE THOSE ISSUES.

SINGLE STREAM RECYCLING MAKING IT EASY FOR THE THE CONSUMERS.

HOW COME THAT HASN'T CAUGHT ON THE WAY IT WAS INTENDED?

>> THERE ARE A NUMBER OF ISSUES.

ISSUES.

ONE OF THEM IS EDUCATION EDUCATION HAS NOT BEEN CONSISTENT ABOUT WHAT IS RECYCLABLE, WHAT'S NOT RECYCLABLE.

THINGS HAVE CHANGED ALONG THE WAY, SO THERE HAVE BEEN TIMES WHEN SOMETHING IS RECYCLABLE AND THEN THE CITY DECIDES IT NO LONGER IS.

AND AGAIN, THE COMMUNICATION ABOUT THAT HAS NOT BEEN CONSISTENT.

WE WE ALSO DON'T HAVE CLEAR DATA ABOUT WHAT GOES INTO WHAT IS BEING COLLECTED IN THE BLUE CART, AND PREVIOUSLY THERE WAS THE PRIOR MANAGER, I'LL SAY, OF THE BLUE CART SYSTEM WAS ACTUALLY A WASTE HAULER RATHER THAN LAKESHORE RECYCLING SYSTEMS, WHICH IS ACTUALLY A RECYCLING COMPANY, STARTED AS A RECYCLING COMPANY.

SO THERE ARE A NUMBER OF ISSUES AS TO WHY IT DIDN'T WORK OUT FROM THE BEGINNING, THE WAY IT WAS SUPPOSED TO.

>> I'LL GET BACK TO THAT CONTRACT WITH LAKESHORE RECYCLING SYSTEMS IN A BIT BUT I I WANT TO GET TO ANGELA TOVAR.

YOU HEARD THE RECYCLING RATE IS JUST BELOW 10%.

WAS A REALISTIC GOAL FOR THE CITY TO GET TO AND HOW DOES IT NEED TIME TO GET THERE?

>> THANKS SO MUCH, FIRST AND FO, FOR HAVING ME, PARIS.

I JUST WANT TO START BY SAYING WE FULLE FULLY AGREE WITH THE FOLKS ON THIS PANEL HERE.

WE KNOW CHICAGO CAN DO BETTER AND WE DO INTEND TO MAKE SIGNIFICANT CHANGES IN THE NEXT FEW YEARS.

IF Y'ALL HAVE TAKEN A LOOK AT OUR CLIMATE CLIMATE ACTION PLAN, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WE ARE VERY SERIOUS ABOUT AND WE KNOW THAT IT IS A MATTER OF LOOKING AT THE WASTE SYSTEM, NOT FROM JUST A TRADITIONAL BLUE CART AND BLACK CART SYSTEM, BUT RATHER, MOVING INTO IDENTIFYING DIFFERENT MATERIALS IN THE WASTE STREAM AND UNDERSTANDING HOW TO BETTER DIVERT THEM.

SO WE NEED TO LOOK AT NOT ONLY EDUCATION, AND NOT ONLY PLASTICS OR CANS, BUT ALSO LOOKING AT OUR DENSE COLLECTION, COMPOSTING, WHICH IS WHAT PATTY PATTY WAS TALKING ABOUT IN HER , HER SEGMENT, TEXTILES, MORE OPPORTUNITIES FOR COLLECTING THINGS LIKE ELECTRONICS AND HAZARDOUS WASTE COLLECTION.

SO THOSE ARE THINGS THAT WE INTEND TO DO TO HELP THE CITY BOEBERT, AND WE HAD A GOAL IN OUR CLIMATE CLIMATE ACTION PLAN OF DIVERTING MATERIALS FROM DIFFERENT SECTORS, AT LEAST 90% BY 2030.

>> JEN WALLING, IN THAT PIECE AS AS WELL, PATTY MENTIONED SAN FRANCISCO, WHICH IS GOING TO RECYCLE SOMETHING LIKE 80% OF THEIR MATERIALS.

HOW DO THEY DO IT?

>> ABSOLUTELY, WE COULD BE WHERE WHERE SAN FRANCISCO IS.

I THINK FIRST OFF, WE TALKED ABOUT CONSISTENT EDUCATION.

WE NEED TO TO CONTINUALLY EDUCATE PEOPLE.

IT CAN'T JUST BE A POSTCARD ONCE ONCE EVERY FOUR YEARS.

AND THEN ITEMS THAT HAVE TO DO WITH ENFORCEMENT AND PENALTIES, I KNOW FOLKS WERE UPSET ABOUT PARTS NOT BEING TAKEN WHEN THERE THERE WAS CONTAMINATION, BUT THAT WAS A BIG EDUCATIONAL OPPORTUNITY FOR PEOPLE IN THE CITY, AND I THINK THAT IN CITIES CITIES LIKE SAN FRANCISCO, THERE THERE ARE PENALTIES FOR NOT RECYCLING THINGS.

THERE MIGHT BE BE PENALTIES FOR PUTTING THINGS YOU SHOULDN'T INTO YOUR RECYCLING BIN AND IT'S NOT TAKEN, COUPLED WITH THAT SORT OF OF EDUCATION.

THOSE ARE THINGS I I THINK ARE REALLY VITAL.

>> GETTING THE PUBLIC ON BOARD WITH ALL THESE THINGS, AN EDUCAL AN EDUCATIONAL PROGRAM SEEMS TO BE PART OF THE PLAN HERE.

MICHELLE THOMA, YOU MENTIONED THE FORMER CONTRACTOR, WASTE MANAGEMENT, OPERATING THE BLUE CART SYSTEM.

NOW IT'S LRS.

BETTER PROSPECTS WITH THIS COMPANY?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

YES.

AGAIN, THEY STARTED AS A RECYCLING COMPANY.

THEY ARE DEDICATED TO RECYCLING.

RECYCLING.

I'VE ACTUALLY BEEN TO TO THEIR FACILITY AND HAVE SEEN IT WITH MY OWN EYES, AND I'M SORT OF SURPRISED THAT WE HAVEN'T SEEN MORE OF AN INCREASE INCREASE IN THE RECYCLING RATE AS A RESULT.

CURIOUS AS TO WHY THAT IS.

>> YOU'RE HOPING FOR PERHAPS BETTER PERFORMANCE FROM THAT?

>> >> I AM AND I THINK THAT IT'S POSSIBLE.

>> ANGELA TOVAR, ANOTHER COMPONENT OF RECYCLING FOR DECADES IS THAT BIG BUILDINGS WERE KIND OF ON THEIR OWN, BIG HOLDINGS WITH MANY UNITS.

HOW IS IS THAT BEING MANAGED IN HIGH-RISE APARTMENTS, OFFICE BUILDINGS, AND COLLECTING THEIR?

THEIR RECYCLABLES?

>> AS YOU ALL KNOW FROM THE CHICAGO RECYCLING ORDINANCE, HIGH-RISES DO REQUIRE THOSE BUILDING OWNERS TO SECURE PRIVAE SECURE PRIVATE HAULING, AND WE HAVE HEARD MULTIPLE CONCERNS FROM OUR RESIDENCE THAT COLLECTIONS ARE NOT CONSISTENT, AND IN ADDITION TO THAT, THAT THEY DO NOT HAVE THE PROPER AVENUE FOR RECYCLING.

SO THAT IS IS CERTAINLY SOMETHING THAT WE ARE LOOKING INTO AND TRYING TO HOLD PRIVATE HOLDERS ACCOUNTABLE .

FOR US, WE ARE ALSO BUILDING MORE STAFF CAPACITY AROUND RECYCLING.

THAT IS A CRITICAL PIECE THAT WE HAVE HEARD LOUD AND CLEAR, THAT WE NEED MORE BODIES HERE AT THE CITY, THINKING ABOUT MATERIALS MANAGEMENT MORE BROADLY, AND WE ARE BRINGING ON -- IN FACT, WITHIN THE NEXT WEEK WE WILL HAVE A NEW ASSISTANT COMMISSIONER OF RECYCLING AS WELL AS ANOTHER EDUCATION MANAGR EDUCATION MANAGER TO HELP WITH E WITH THE NUMBERS, AND THEN A FEW FEW MORE POSITIONS THAT WE ARE GOING TO BE HIRING FOR TO HELP THAT SUPPORT IN THAT CAPACITY THAT'S NEEDED TO GET THE JOB DONE.

>> THEY'RE BEEFING UP THE STAFF THERE.

JEN WALLING, THERE ARE LAWS ON THE BOOKS.

THERE ARE ORDINANCES ON THE BOOKS, STATE LAWS THAT REGULATE THIS.

ARE THEY JUST NOT BEING ENFORCED, PERHAPS?

>> YEAH, I THINK THERE ARE SOME STATE LAWS THAT ARE NOT BEING ENFORCED, ESPECIALLY WHEN IT HAS HAS TO DO WITH THINGS LIKE YARD WASTE, WHICH ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO TO BE GOING INTO LANDFILLS.

OUR COUNTIES ARE ENFORCING A 25% RECYCLING RATE FOR THE COUNTY.

THERE IS NOT REALLY ENFORCEMENT BEHIND THAT BUT IT IS A STATE LAW THAT THAT IS SUPPOSED TO BE HAPPENING.

AND SO, THESE THINGS JUST -- THEY'RE NOT BEING ENFORCED.

BUT WE ARE REALLY LOOKING FOR WHERE WE ARE GOING TO GO NEXT WITH STATE LAWS, WITH WITH RESPECT TO STRENGTHENING TE STRENGTHENING THOSE, BUT ALSO THINGS THAT WILL REDUCE THE WASTE THAT WE ARE CREATING IN THE FIRST PLACE, WHICH IS GOING TO BE REALLY CRITICAL FOR NEXT YEAR.

>> MICHELLE, SOMETHING YOU WANT TO PICK UP ON, PERHAPS ON THE FRONT END, WHAT CONSUMERS CAN DO DO AND WHAT STATE LAWS CAN BE PUT IN PLACE THAT MIGHT REDUCE THE FRONT END AMOUNT OF RECYCLABLES OR WASTE MATERIAL?

>> A BOTTLE BILL IN ILLINOIS WOULD BE GREAT.

THERE ARE 10 STATES THAT CURRENTLY HAVE BOTTLE BILLS, WHICH WE USED TO HAVE HERE, WAY BACK IN THE DAY.

SO THAT'S WHERE YOU PAY A LITTLE LITTLE EXTRA ON THE FRONT END AND THEN YOU GET YOUR FIVE OR $.10 WHEN YOU GET BACK, WHEN YOU YOU RETURN.

THAT ACTUALLY HAS BEEN PROVEN THAT IT IS EFFECTIVE EFFECTIVE IN GETTING PEOPLE TO RECYCLE.

EXTENDED PRODUCER RESPONSIBILITY LAWS WOULD BE GRT BE GREAT, AS WELL.

>> WHAT ARE THOSE?

>> THAT'S WHERE THE MANUFACTURERS ARE REQUIRED TO BD TO BUILD FULL LIFECYCLE COST INTO THEIR PRODUCTS, AND EXAMPLES OF THAT ARE TAKEBACK PROGRAMS, AND HAVING THEM BE RESPONSIBLE FOR HAVING TAKEBACKS TAKEBACK PROGRAMS.

SO TIRES IS A A GOOD EXAMPLE OF THAT.

>> WE ONLY HAVE A FEW SECONDS HERE, BUT COMPOSTING.

HOW DOES THIS PLAY INTO THE CITY'S PLAN?

>> YEAH, SO WE ARE GOING ALL INN IN ON BOTH THINGS.

IN FACT, WE JUST ALLOCATED IN LAST YEAR'S CHICAGO RECOVERY PLAN, $6.5 MILLION FOR COMPOSTING.

I WILL SAY THAT WE HAVE A CITYWIDE COMPOSTING NETWORK THAT WE ARE WORKING WITH -- THAT WE ARE UNVEILING AND COORDINATION WITH AN ORGANIZATION CALLED NEIGHBOR SPACE.

WE ARE SUPPORTING COMMUNITY COMPOSTING SITES THROUGHOUT CHICAGO, STARTING WITH FIVE COMMUNITY GARDENS.

WE ARE GOING TO BE SUPPORTING THEIR THEIR COMPOSTING EFFORTS AND WORKING WITH THEM TO ENCOURAGE THE NEIGHBORS AROUND THE GARDEN TO COME AND COMPOST MATERIALS THERE, AND WE ARE ALSO GOING TO BE PILOTING IN THE FUTURE, WITHIN THE NEXT YEAR, WE ARE PLANNING TO ANNOUNCE OUR RESIDENTIAL COMPOSTING PICKUP.

SO WE ARE VERY HOPEFUL, WE KNOW THAT INVESTING MORE IN COMPOSTING WILL LEAD TO A SIGNIFICANT DIVERSION OF WASTE FROM THE LANDFILL.

>> A LOT OF WORK AHEAD, NOT JUST JUST FOR CITY LEADERS, BUT FOR EVERY CHICAGO RESIDENT HERE THAT THAT PLAYS A PART IN THIS.

AND OUR THANKS TO JENNIFER WALLING, MICHELLE THOMA, AND ANGELA TOVAR.

> >> UP NEXT, A NEW SUPREME COURT TERM AGAINST.

WE SHARE DETAILS IN THE MAJOR CASES AWAITING THE JUSTICES.

> >> BUT FIRST WE TAKE A LOOK AT THE WEATHER.

>> SUPREME COURT JUSTICES RETURNED TO THE BENCH, AND ON THE DOCKET, DISPUTES OVER AFFIRMATIVE ACTION, VOTING, REL, VOTING, RELIGION, -RIGHTS AND MORE.

THIS COMES AS A NEW GALLUP GALLUP POLL SAID 68% OF AMERICANS DISAPPROVE OF THE JOB JOB THE NATION'S HIGHEST COURT IS DOING.

THAT'S THE LOWEST APPROVAL RATING SINCE 2000, WHEN WHEN GALLUP FIRST ASKED THAT QUESTION.

SO WHAT CAN THE COUNTRY EXPECT FROM THIS UPCOMING TERM?

HERE TO LOOK AT SOME OF THE MORE CONTROVERSIAL CASES AND SHARE THEIR ANALYSIS ABOUT WHERE THE COURT IS HEADED OUR JOHN McGINNIS, PROFESSOR OF CONSTITUTIONAL LAW AT NORTHWESTERN UNIVERSITY PRITZKER PRITZKER SCHOOL OF LAW , CAROLYN SHAPIRO, CODIRECTOR OF THE CHICAGO-KENT COLLEGE OF LAW'S INSTITUTE ON THE SUPREME COURT.

SHE ALSO CLERKED FOR JUSTICE STEPHEN BREYER.

AND ALSO WITH US US IS DAVID FRANKLIN, ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR AT THE DePAUL UNIVERSITY COLLEGE OF LAW, AND MR. FRANKLIN ALSO CLERKED FOR JUSTICE RUTH BADER GINSBURG.

WELCOME ALL OF YOU TO CHICAGO TONIGHT.

DAVID FRANKLIN, I'LL START WITH YOU.

THE COURT RETURNED AFTER A VERY CONTROVERSIAL SESSION CAPSTONE BY THE DOBBS DECISION OVERTURNING ROE V WADE.

RIGHT NOW SOMEWHERE AROUND HALF OF AMERICANS SAY THEY DON'T HAVE A GREAT DEAL OF TRUST IN THE INSTITUTION.

HOW BIG A CRISIS IS IS THIS PERCEPTION RIGHT NOW?

>> >> I THINK IT'S A SERIOUS CRISIS CRISIS FOR THE COURT.

I THINK YOU'VE SEEN SOME OF THE JUSTICES JUSTICES SPEAKING IN PUBLIC ABOUT THIS PERCEPTION, SO THEY ARE AWARE OF IT.

AND I THINK IT'S PRETTY EASY TO UNDERSTAND WHY THE COURT'S PERCEPTION HAS D HAS SUFFERED.

IT'S BECAUSE THE COURT HAS SORT OF STRAYED FROM THE BOUNDS OF WHERE MOST OF THE SENSIBLE OPINION IN THE COUNTRY IS, AND THAT'S SOMETHING THE COURT TRIES TO RARELY DO.

OBVIOUSLY THE OVERRULING OF ROE VERSUS WADE LAST TERM WAS ONE EXAMPLE OF THAT, BUT IT WAS JUST JUST ONE EXAMPLE, SO THE COURT STRIKING DOWN NEW YORK'S CONCEALED CARRY LAW AND MAKING IT VERY DIFFICULT FOR SENSIBLE GUN CONTROL POLICIES TO BE CONSIDERED VALID WOULD BE ANOTHER EXAMPLE.

AND I JUST THINK OVERALL ONE OF THE THINGS THAT'S SO STRIKING TO ME ABOUT TODAY'S COURT, AS OPPOSED TO THE THE ONE THAT CAROLYN AND I CLERKED FOR A COUPLE DECADES AGO AGO -- WE ARE KIND OF OLD -- IS HOW AGENDA DRIVEN THE COURT SEEMS TO BE.

COURTS ARE SUPPOSED SUPPOSED TO BE REACTIVE INSTITUTIONS.

THEY TAKE THE CASES THAT COME TO THEM.

BUT WHEN YOU OFTEN SEE, WITH THIS 6-3 CONSERVATIVE BLOCK ON THE COURT NOW, IS A GROUP OF JUSTICES WHO SORT OF CAN'T WAIT TO MOVE THE LAW IN THE DIRECTION DIRECTION THAT THEY PREFER, AND I THINK SOME OF THE CASES THAT WE MIGHT TALK ABOUT TONIGHT REFLECT THAT.

>> JOHN McGINNIS, THE CHIEF JUSTICE HAS OFTEN MADE THE CASE THAT IT'S NOT NECESSARILY A PROBLEM WITHIN THE COURT, BUT IT'S SIMPLY THAT SINCE PEOPLE DISAGREE WITH THEIR DECISIONS THEY'RE DECIDING, THAT THEY DON'T FEEL THE INSTITUTION HAS THE SAME LEVEL OF LEGITIMACY.

IS IS THAT A LEGITIMATE POINT?

>> YES, I THINK MOSTLY LAST TERM TERM WAS THE DOBBS DECISION.

THS DECISION.

THERE'S NO PEOPLE WHO MISUNDERSTOOD WHAT THE DOBBS DECISION WAS, THE COURT MADE ABORTION LEGAL, GAVE IT BACK TO THE STATES.

I THINK THAT IS THE ONLY DECISION ACTUALLY THAT REALLY REACHED THE PEOPLE, GENERALLY, LAST TERM, UNLIKE JUDGE FRANKLIN, I DON'T ACTUALLY ACTUALLY THINK THAT THE COUNTRY REALLY DISAGREES AS A WHOLE WITH WITH THE COURT'S DECISION IN THE THE GUN CASE.

I THINK THE POINT IS REALLY GOING TO BE BORN OUT THIS TERM.

THE MOST IMPORTANT DECISION BY FAR IS THE AFFIRMATIVE-ACTION DECISION.

THERE THE COURT IS MUCH MORE LIKELY TO OVERCOME THE PREVIOUS DECISIONS AND RULE RACIAL PREFERENCES AS ILLEGAL.

THAT'S A A VERY POPULAR DECISION.

>> I DO WANT TO GET IN -- >> THAT IS A VERY POPULAR DECISION IN THE COUNTRY AS WE SEE WHEN THAT'S VOTED ON.

THAT IS A POSSIBILITY OF TURNING AROUND THE COURT'S POPULAR PERCEPTIONS.

>> I DO WANT TO GET INTO THAT AFFIRMATIVE-ACTION CASE IN JUST A SECOND.

BUT CAROLYN, I WANT TO TO BRING YOU IN HERE.

CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS HAS ACKNOWLEDGED ACKNOWLEDGED THAT TRUST ERODES IF FOLKS LOOK AT JUDGES AS POLITICIANS IN ROBES.

HOW DOES THE COURT REPAIR THAT TRUST?

>> I'M NOT SURE EXACTLY WHAT THE THE COURT SHOULD DO AT THIS EXACT MOMENT TO REPAIR THE TRUST.

I AGREE WITH DAVID THAT IT'S ACTUALLY A PRETTY SIGNIFICANT PROBLEM AND I'LL ADD ADD A COUPLE REASONS WHY.

ONE IS IS WE GET A LOT OF RHETORIC FROM FROM THE MAJORITY ABOUT THE IMPORTANCE OF DEMOCRACY.

WE GET RHETORIC ABOUT HOW GREAT IT IS THAT NOW ABORTION IS BEING DECIDED BY THE PEOPLE INSTEAD OY OF BY NINE JUSTICES IN WASHINGTON OR FIVE JUSTICES IN WASHINGTON.

THE REALITY IS, HOWEVER, THAT THIS IS A COURT THAT HAS BEEN EXTREMELY HOSTILEO HOSTILE TO VOTING RIGHTS AND TO FAIR ELECTIONS.

IT HAS STRUCK DOWN SECTION 4, MAKING SECTION 5 5 OF THE VOTING RIGHTS ACT INAPPLICABLE SINCE 2013, WHICH S WHICH IS WHAT IS THE MOST EFFECTIVE PART OF THE VOTING RIGHTS ACT, THAT PREVENTED STATES THAT WERE COVERED BY IT FROM IMPLEMENTING RULES AND CHANGES IN VOTING, MAKING IT HARDER FOR MINORITIES TO VOTE THAN IT HAD BEEN BEFORE.

IMMEDIATELY, STATES AROUND THE SOUTH IMPLEMENTED DRACONIAN ANDW AND NEW AND RESTRICTIVE VOTING S VOTING RULES , CLOSED POLLING PLACES, CLOSED DMVS, WHICH MADE IT HARDER FOR PEOPLE TO GET THE I.D.S THAT WERE THEN BEING REQUIRED.

WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TWO IMPORTANT VOTING CASES THIS TERM.

SO I THINK PART OF WHAT IS IS -- AT LEAST IT MAY NOT BE WHAT EVERY AMERICAN UNDERSTANDS ABOUT THE COURT, THERE IS SOMETHING DEEPLY HYPOCRITICAL ABOUT THE CLAIMS THAT THIS IS ALL ABOUT DEMOCRACY WHEN THEY DECIDE THESE SUBSTANTIVE ISSUES, ISSUES, REFUSE TO HOLD IT ELSEWHERE.

>> YOU MENTIONED THESE ISSUES ARE COMING BEFORE THE COURT THIS THIS TERM, SO DAVID, LET'S START START WITH YOU AND THE AFFIRMATIVE-ACTION CASE THAT WAS WAS MENTIONED.

AFFIRMATIVE ACTION IN COLLEGE ADMISSIONS.

WHAT IS AT STAKE HERE?

>> THESE ARE CASES THAT ASK WHETHER UNIVERSITIES, BOTH PUBLIC AND PRIVATE, CAN TAKE RACE INTO ACCOUNT IN THEIR ADMISSIONS POLICY.

IT'S BEEN SETTLED FOR ABOUT 20 YEARS THAT THE USE OF RACE IN ADMISSIONS IS IS SUBJECT TO THE STRICTEST FORM FORM OF JUDICIAL SCRUTINY UNDER THE EQUAL PROTECTION CLAUSE, WHICH MEANS THAT UNIVERSITIES RIGHT NOW CAN ONLY USE RACE IF DOING SO IS NARROWLY TAILORED TO TO ACHIEVE THE BENEFITS OF A DIVERSE STUDENT BODY.

AND I'LL JUST NOTE PARENTHETICALLY THAT EVEN THAT POSITION IS HARD TO JUSTIFY UNDER THE ORIGINAL UNDERSTANDING OF EQUAL PROTECTION CLAUSE, SINCE THE PEOPLE WHO WROTE THAT CLAUSE RIGHT AFTER THE CIVIL WAR ALSO D ALSO HAD 20 OF RACE CONSCIOUS LEGISLATION DESIGNED TO ASSIST THE NEWLY FREED SLAVES.

BUT IN ANY CASE, NOW THE COURT WANTS TO TO GO FURTHER, I SUSPECT, AND DECLARE THAT RACE CAN NEVER BE TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT IN ADMISSIONS.

AND MAYBE THAT IS A POPULAR VIEW, AS JOHN SUGGESTS.

CERTAINLY THE PEOPLE IN STATES LIKE CALIFORNIA ARE FREE AND HAVE LONG BEEN FREE TO MAKE THAT THAT THEIR POLICY IF THEY SO CHOOSE.

AND EVEN AFTER RACE IS RULED OUT, I GUESS UNIVERSITIES CAN STILL TAKE OTHER THINGS LIKE LIKE SOCIOECONOMIC STATUS INTO ACCOUNT, BUT THEY BELIEVE THAT AS UNIVERSITIES, THOSE OTHER METHODS WON'T BE AS EFFECTIVE IN IN ALLOWING THEM TO MAINTAIN RACIAL DIVERSITY THAT THEY SEEK.

SEEK.

SO WE'LL HAVE TO SEE.

>> SAY THIS IS THE DIRECTION THE THE COURT GOES, SAY IT'S LIKE A 6-3 RULING AND THAT RACE CANNOT BE CONSIDERED IN ADMISSIONS, IT IS A PRECEDENT THAT HAS BEEN ESTABLISHED THE COURT AND UPHELD.

IS IT PROBLEMATIC LIKE THE DOBBS DECISION, TO OVERTURN AN ESTABLISHED PRECEDENT?

>> I DON'T TAKE SO, WHEN THE PRESIDENT IS SO COMPLETELY WRONG.

SO ACTUALLY THERE IS A PROVISION.

IT SHOULD NOT BE AN EQUAL PROTECTION MATTER.

THE PROVISION IN TITLE VI THAT BANS THE USE OF RACE, AND THE COURT, OR REALLY ONE JUSTICE WRONGLY SAID THAT IT WAS CONNECTED TO THE EQUAL PROTECTION CLAUSE WHEN WHEN THE LANGUAGE DOESN'T TALK ABOUT THE EQUAL PROTECTION CLAUSE, AND LONGLEY WRONGLY CONSTITUTIONALIZE IS AN ISSUE.

I I THINK WHAT THE COURT IS GOING TO DO IS FOLLOW THE TEXT OF THE STATUTE PASSED BY THE PEOPLE, PASSED BY CONGRESS.

IF CONGRESS WANTS TO CHANGE THIS AND PERMIT RACE TO BE TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT, ONLY THEN WILL WE REACH THE CONSTITUTIONAL QUESTION.

>> CAROLINE SHAPIRO, I'M SURE YOU WANT TO WEIGH IN ON THIS AS WELL BUT I NEED TO GET TO THE CASE YOU MENTIONED IN ALABAMA, THE VOTING RIGHTS ACT.

WHAT IS AT STAKE, DEALING WITH THE VOTING RIGHTS ACT?

WHAT'S AT STAKE IN THIS CASE?

>> ALABAMA HAS SEVEN CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICTS.

UNTIL 1992, SINCE RECONSTRUCTION, UNTIL 1992 THERE WERE NO AFRICAN AFRICAN AMERICAN REPRESENTATIVES REPRESENTATIVES TO CONGRESS IN 1992.

THEY SAID DUE TO LITIGATION.

ONE MAJORITY AFRICAN AFRICAN AMERICAN DISTRICT WAS AD WAS ADDED AND THERE HAS BEEN ONE ONE MAJORITY AFRICAN AMERICAN DISTRICT IN ALABAMA EVER SINCE.

SINCE THEN, THE PROPORTION OF WHITE VOTERS IN ALABAMA HAS DECREASED, THE PROPORTION OF AFRICAN AMERICAN VOTERS HAS INCREASED.

AND ESSENTIALLY WHAT HAS HAPPENED IS THAT THE AFRICAN AFRICAN AMERICAN POPULATION IS -- EXCEPT FOR JUST ONE DISTRICT, DISTRICT, IS SPLIT UP OR CRACKED CRACKED AMONG OTHER DISTRICTS.

SO THE QUESTION IS WHETHER THE VOTING RIGHTS ACT REQUIRES, UNDER THE PARTICULAR CIRCUMSTANCES OF ALABAMA, WHICH INCLUDED AN ENORMOUS AMOUNT OF EVIDENCE BEFORE A DISTRICT COURT ON THE THREE-JUDGE DISTRICT COURT, REQUIRES THE ALABAMA LEGISLATURE TO TAKE ANOTHER CRACK AT DRAWING, IF NOT TWO MAJORITY AFRICAN AMERICAN DISTRICT, THEN AT LEAST A SECOND SECOND DISTRICT IN WHICH AFRICAN AFRICAN AMERICANS WOULD HAVE THE THE POSSIBILITY OF BEING ABLE TO TO ELECT A REPRESENTATIVE OF THEIR CHOICE, WHICH RIGHT NOW THEY DO NOT HAVE.

SO WHAT'S AT STAKE IS HOW THE VOTING RIGHTS ACT OPERATES, BUT EVEN MORE, IS WHETHER THE VOTING RIGHTS ACT IS IS CONSTITUTIONAL, BECAUSE THE STATE OF ALABAMA HAS ESSENTIALLY ESSENTIALLY ASKED THE SUPREME COURT TO SAY, EITHER THE VOTING RIGHTS ACT DOESN'T REALLY MEAN VERY MUCH, OR CAN'T -- A VIOLATION COULD NEVER REALISTICALLY BE PROVEN, OR IT'S IT'S SIMPLY UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

THE VOTING RIGHTS ACT THAT'S REALLY BEEN THE CROWN JEWEL OF THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT, AND EITHER OF THOSE HOLDINGS WOULD BE QUITE DEVASTATING FOR DEMOCRACY AND IN PARTICULAR FOR MULTIRACIAL DEMOCRACY.

>> AS I MENTIONED, THESE ARE ONLY TWO OF MANY CASES THE COURT COURT IS CONSIDERING THIS TERM,D TERM, AND WE'LL PERHAPS GET TO SOME OF THOSE OTHER CAGES AT A FUTURE DATE.

BUT WE HAVE TO LEAVE IT HERE NOW.

JOHN McGINNIS, CAROLYN FRANKLIN, THANKS SO MUCH.

> >> WE ARE BACK TO WRAP THINGS UP UP RIGHT AFTER THIS.

>> "CHICAGO TONIGHT" IS MADE POSSIBLE IN PART BY ALEXANDRA AND JOHN NICHOLS, THE GYM AND KAY NADY FAMILY, THE POPE BROTHERS FOUNDATION AND THE SUPPORT OF THESE DONORS.

> >> BEFORE WE GO, A SAD NOTE FROM FROM THE WTTW FAMILY.

WTTW AND W FMC TRUSTEE JOHN BRENNAN DIED SUDDENLY THIS MORNING.

BRENTON, SEEN HERE ON THE LEFT, WAS AN ACTIVE MEMBER OF OUR BOARD FOR 18 YEARS.

HE WAS PASSIONATE ABOUT OUR MISSION AND COMMITTED TO OUR WORK.

THOSE WHO KNEW JOHN JOHN WELL DESCRIBED HIM AS KIND, KIND, WARM, AND A PERSON CARED DEEPLY ABOUT THE PEOPLE AROUND HIM.

OF COURSE OUR THOUGHTS ARE WITH JOHN'S WIFE, JEAN, THEIR CHILDREN JACK BRENNAN AND KELLY BRENNAN POWELL AND GRANDSON, KANE.

JOHN BRENNAN WAS 60 YEARS OLD.

> >> AND THAT IS OUR SHOW FOR THIS THIS MONDAY NIGHT.

DON'T FORGET TO STAY CONNECTED WITH US BY SIGNING UP FOR OUR DAILY BRIEFING AND YOU CAN GET "CHICAGO TONIGHT" STREAMED ON FACEBOOK, YOUTUBE, AND OUR WEBSITE, WTTW.COM/NEWS.

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ABORTIONS ARE LEGALLY COMPLICATED FOR HEALTHCARE PROVIDERS.

> >> IN THE SECOND PART OF OUR SERIES, PERMANENT PUNISHMENT, THE IMPACT ON WOMEN AND OFTEN THEIR FAMILIES.

> >> NOW FOR ALL OF US HERE AT CHICAGO TONIGHT, I'M BRANDIS FRIEDMAN.

>> AND ON PARIS SCHUTZ.

NICE ONE ONE IN OUR NEW STUDIO IN THE BOOKS.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR WATCHING.

STAY HEALTHY AND SAFE AND HAVE A GREAT NIGHT.

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