>> HELLO, EVERYONE.

WELCOME TO AMANPOUR AND COMPANY.

HERE'S WHAT IS COMING UP.

U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE, ANTHONY LINCOLN IN TEL AVIV SAYS THE UNITED STATES AND ISRAEL.

I.T.

SPEAK TO PRIME MINISTER ADVISER MARK.

THEN A RARE GLIMPSE INTO GAZA UNDER SIEGE.

WE BRING YOU A FIRST-HAND REPORT FROM THERE, TALK TO A BRITISH PALESTINIAN SURGEON WHO RUSHED TO HELP ALSO AHEAD, RENOWNED AUTHOR, YOU VON HELPED US DIGEST THE WORST WEEK IN MODERN ISRAELI HISTORY.

PLUS TALKING TO FORMER USAID CHIEF ABOUT HOW BIG CONFLICTS CAN SOMETIMES LEAD TO CHANGE.

>> TRAINER AND COMPANY IS LATE.

JIM ATWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS, MARCH A BLESSING OR, SEATON J MELVIN, CHARGE VESPA CHARLES ROSENBLUM.

COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES.

BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG.

ADDITIONAL SUPPORT PROVIDED BY THESE FUNDERS.

AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR DBS STATIONS FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM EVERYONE, I AM CHRIS CHRISTIANA AMANPOUR IN LONDON.

CHEERS, TEARS, AND HUGS FOR TONY BLINKEN, A TOP MET IN ISRAEL TO LISTEN TO THE EMOTIONAL MOMENT OF THE SECRETARY OF STATE MEDIA 24- YEAR-OLD AMERICAN ISRAELI WHO SURVIVED THE SLAUGHTER OF THE MUSIC FESTIVAL LAST SATURDAY.

MEGAN IF THERE IS ANYWAY TO HELP LIKE FIRST PRIORITY, FIRST PRIORITY.

WE ARE STRONG HERE, WE ARE POWERFUL HERE, AND THIS PLACE NOW , TEL AVIV AND EVERYWHERE .

>> PLEADING WITH THE SECRETARY OF STATE ON BEHALF OF FRIENDS AND FAMILY WHO HAVE BEEN TAKEN HOSTAGE AND TAKEN INTO GAZA.

EARLIER, BLINKEN STOOD ALONG THE ALARM ISRAELI MINISTER WHO SET A PREREQUISITE FOR VICTORY OVER HAMAS'S MORAL CLARITY.

>> HAMAS IS ISIS.

AND JUST AS ISIS WAS CRUSHED , SO TOO WILL HAMAS BE CRUSHED.

AND HAMAS SHOULD BE TREATED EXACTLY LIKE THE WAY ISIS WAS TREATED.

THEY SHOULD BE SPIT OUT FROM THE COMMUNITY OF NATIONS.

>> THE MESSAGE THAT I BRING TO ISRAEL IS THIS.

YOU MAY BE STRONG ENOUGH ON YOUR OWN TO DEFEND YOURSELF, BUT AS LONG AS AMERICA EXIT EXISTS, YOU WILL NEVER EVER HAVE TO.

WE WILL ALWAYS BE THERE.

BY YOUR SIDE.

HOW , ISRAEL, TO THIS MATTERS?

WE DEMAND DEMOCRACIES IS A SOCIAL TERRACE BY STRIVING FOR STANDARD.

EVEN WHEN IT IS DIFFICULT.

IN HOLDING OURSELVES TO ACCOUNT WHEN WE FALL SHORT.

>> TODAY , THE OFFICE RELEASED GRAPHIC IMAGES OF ATROCITIES AGAINST THE BABIES, WHICH HE SHARED WITH THE U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE.

AS ISRAEL GEARS UP TO AVENGE ITS MURDER, THE BIG QUESTION ON MANY MINDS IS WHAT IS COMING NEXT?

ESPECIALLY OF COURSE IN GAZA, WHICH KNOWS THAT IT WILL PAY A HEAVY PRICE FOR HAMAS'S ACTIONS.

DESPERATION IS GROWING, THERE IS NO ELECTRICITY, FOOD, AND WATER COMING IN.

ISRAEL'S ENERGY MINISTER SAYS THERE SIEGE WILL REMAIN IN'S PLACE UNTIL ISRAELI HOSTAGES ARE RETURNED TO THE DOOR NOT BY THE PRIME MINISTER'S LONGTIME COMPETENCY ADVISER, MARK.

YOU ARE BACK IN ISRAEL, YOU HAVE BEEN, YOU KNOW, A SENIOR DIPLOMAT FOR MANY, MANY YEARS BUT YOU'RE BACK NOW FOR THIS PARTICULAR WAR AS SENIOR ADVISER.

SO, TELL ME FIRST ABOUT THE HOSTAGES, BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT PEOPLE BEG BLINKEN TO TRY TO RESOLVE, AND NOW WE HEAR , WILL WE KEEP HEARING, THAT THE SIEGE ON GAZA WILL REMAIN UNTIL THEY ARE RELEASED.

HOW CAN YOU, HOW CAN YOU GET THEM RELEASED BUY >> SO, THE HOSTAGES OUT I WOULD LIKE TO SAY TWO THINGS WITH YOUR PERMISSION, CHRISTIAN.

NUMBER ONE , IT HAS TO BE UNDERSTOOD THAT WE ARE WATCHING , AND WE ARE WATCHING CLOSELY.

AND IF ANY HARM COMES TO SAUSAGES , WE WILL FIND THOSE RESPONSIBLE , AND WE WILL BRING THEM TO TO JUSTICE, AND THEY WILL PAY.

AND IF IT TAKES A YEAR OR FIVE YEARS, OR 25 YEARS , IF THEY ARE HOSTAGES , ISRAEL WILL FIND THEM, AND THEY WILL BE RETRIBUTION.

AND THAT SHOULD BE PERFECTLY CLEAR.

THE SECOND THING THAT HAS TO BE SAID IS THAT WHAT THEY HAVE DONE IN KIDNAPPING ALL THESE PEOPLE , OVER 100 IS AGAINST ALL INTERNATIONAL LAW.

IT IS UNACCEPTABLE BEHAVIOR , AND A MESSAGE FOR THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY HAS TO BE CLEAR, CRYSTAL CLEAR , UNEQUIVOCAL IT SHOULD BE THE IMMEDIATE AND UNCONDITIONAL RELEASE OF ALL OF THESE HOSTAGES PERIOD.

>> ARE YOU NOT CONCERNED, YOU SAID YOU HAVE EYES ON AND YOU'RE WATCHING VERY CLOSELY.

THAT YOU ARE VERY HAPPY BOMBING CAMPAIGN INSIDE GAZA MAY , HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT YOU ARE NOT INADVERTENTLY PUT IN THE HOSTAGES IN DANGER?

DO YOU KNOW WHERE THEY ARE?

>> I'M NOT GOING TO GO TO WHAT WE KNOW AND WHAT WE DON'T KNOW.

BUT IT IS CRUCIAL THAT ISRAEL HAD BACK HARD AGAINST HAMAS.

CHRISTIANE, YOU AND ME HAVE BOTH BEEN ON DIFFERENT ENDS, YOU HAVE BEEN A JOURNALIST AND I HAVE BEEN IN GOVERNMENT.

BUT WE HAVE BEEN THROUGH , WHAT IS IT, FIVE, SIX ESCALATIONS IN GAZA, THE DIFFERENT ROUNDS OF FIGHTING.

THIS IS NOT ANOTHER ESCALATION.

THIS IS NOT ANOTHER ROUND OF ISRAEL HAMAS FIGHTING IN GAZA, THIS IS WAR.

WHAT THEY DID ON SATURDAY MORNING WITH A ATTACKED ACROSS , ALONG FRONT IN SCOPE AND IN SCALE.

AND IN SHEER BRUTALITY OF THEIR BEHAVIOR, WHICH BOTH THE PRIME MINISTER TODAY AND THE VISITING CIRCUITRY OF STATE DESCRIBED AS ISIS LIKE .

THAT WAS AN ESCALATION OF MASSIVE PROPORTIONS.

THEY HAVE DECLARED WAR ON ON MY COUNTRY.

WE DO NOT WANT THIS WAR, BUT WE ARE RESPONDING IN FORCE, AND WE WE DID NOT START IT, BUT WE WILL FINISH THIS WAR ON OUR TERMS.

MICHAEL, GREG, IF I NEED TO ASK YOU A QUESTION THAT MANY ISRAELIS ARE ASKING THAT WE SEE ON SOCIAL MEDIA, WE SEE ON TELEVISION.

THERE'S A GREAT DEAL OF ANGER DESPITE THIS SLAUGHTER OF CIVILIANS HAVE GONE THROUGH, AND THAT THE COUNTRY IS IN SHOCK ABOUT.

THERE IS A HUGE AMOUNT OF ANGER DIRECTED AT WHAT THEY BELIEVE WAS EYES OFF THE BALL, INCOMPETENCE IN GOVERNMENT, AND I WOULD SPEED YOU A COUPLE OF DIALOG ESTATE.

4% OF THE PUBLIC BELIEVE THAT INTEREST WAS THE PERCEPTION OF HAMAS TERRORIST IN THE SOUTHERN SENTIMENTS WAS DUE TO NEGLIGENCE OF YOUR CUT COUNTRIES LEADERSHIP 94% BELIEVE THAT THE GOVERNMENT IS IS POSSIBLE FOR THE SITUATION THAT LED TO THE COLLAPSE OF THE ENTIRE SYSTEM OF PROTECTING THE SETTLEMENT IN THE SOUTH.

IN 56% BELIEVE HE SHOULD RESIGN WHEN HIS FINDINGS OVER.

AND TODAY WE SAW IMAGES ON TELEVISION OF A MINISTER BEING LITERALLY HECKLED AND BEING TOLD BY PEOPLE IN HOSPITAL THAT IT IS YOUR FAULT, YOU HAVE RUN THE COUNTRY, YOU'RE RESPONSIBLE.

SO, MY QUESTION TO YOU, FRANKLY, IS HOW SHOULD YOUR PEOPLE HAVE CONFIDENCE THAT THIS GOVERNMENT, WHICH CLAIMS TO HAVE BEEN TAKEN BY SURPRISE COULD ACTUALLY REDEEM ITS PEOPLE , AND GET THE HOSTAGES BACK , AND DO WHAT YOU SAY YOU WANT TO DO IN GAZA.

>> PEOPLE HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO BE ANGRY.

I MEAN ISRAELIS, AS YOU KNOW , FOR YEARS PART OF THEMSELVES ON THE EXCELLENT AT INTELLIGENCE SERVICES.

AND YET IT IS CLEAR THIS TIME WE WERE SURPRISED.

SOMETHING WENT VERY, VERY WRONG.

THERE WERE ALSO COMPLAINTS ABOUT THE IDF'S SPEED OF RESPONSE PATIENCE IS RIPENED >> WITH A QUICK ENOUGH TO DEAL WITH THE ATTACK ONCE THE CROSS THE BORDER?

AND OF COURSE, AS YOU SAID, THEY'RE WELCOME PLATES ABOUT THE POLITICAL ISSUES.

>> ON THESE ISSUES, I WANT TO SAY TWO THINGS, NUMBER ONE, AS THE POLLING ALSO SAID , ISRAELIS WILL.

AND WE ARE NOW UNITING TO WIN THE WAR, AND THAT ISRAEL HAS SUFFERED FROM A VERY DIVISIVE AND POLARIZED POLITICS OVER THE LAST FEW MONTHS, YOU SEE US COMING TOGETHER BECAUSE OF THE CRISIS.

AND AS YOU SAW LAST NIGHT, THE FORMATION OF THIS NATIONAL UNITY GOVERNMENT WITH PARTIES THAT USED TO BE IN THE OPPOSITION SO AS TO SHOW A UNITED FRONT.

AND THIS IS AN EXPRESSION OF WHAT THE ISRAELI PUBLIC WANTS.

AND ONCE THIS IS OVER , ONCE WE HAVE WON, YOU KNOW ISRAELI HISTORY.

WE HAVE HAD INQUIRIES AFTER WARS, WE KNOW HOW TO INVEST IN OURSELVES, WE WERE LOOKING TO WHAT WENT WRONG, WHAT WAS RIGHT .

LESSONS WILL BE LEARNED.

THAT HAPPENED AFTER THE WAR, THAT OFTEN AFTER THE SECOND LEBANON WAR.

WE HAVE A HISTORY OF DOING OUR OWN SELF CORRECTIONS, AND IF MISTAKES WERE MADE, THEY WILL BE EXPOSED, AND PEOPLE WILL HAVE TO LEARN FROM THEM.

>> I JUST WANT TO CORRECT WHAT WE ARE BEING TOLD THAT IT IS ACTION NOT BEING CALLED A UNITY GOVERNMENT BECAUSE FOR INSTANCE, YOU KNOW, REFUSES TO JOIN BECAUSE HE THINKS SOME OF THOSE RESPONSIBLE SHOULD BE EJECTED , BUT THE PRIME MINISTER IS KEEPING THEM IN HIS COALITION I WANT US TO THE NEXT QUESTION BECAUSE CLEARLY THE PEOPLE OF GAZA ARE GOING TO PLAY PAY FOR WHAT HAMAS HAS DONE.

WE CAN SEE IT, IT IS TERRIBLE, WE AS YOU SAY, WE HAVE BEEN THROUGH FOUR PREVIOUS ROUNDS.

BUT NOTHING LIKE THIS , BUT THERE ARE HUNDREDS OF CHILDREN DEAD ACCORDING TO OFFICIALS THERE , THERE ARE NEIGHBORHOODS THAT HAVE TURNED INTO RUBBLE, THERE ARE HOSPITALS PREPARING TO BE MORTGAGE, AND YOU HAVE LAID SIEGE TO GAZA , WHICH WE ARE BEING TOLD IN WHICH I KNOW IS AGAINST INTERNATIONAL LAW.

SO, HOW CAN YOU CONDUCT A WAR WHERE YOU SAY YOU ARE RESPECTING INTERNATIONAL LAW EVEN AT THIS TERRIBLE TIME, WHEN THIS IS AGAINST, AND THE QUESTION IS, HOW DOES IT HELP YOU FIGHT TO DENY FOOD, FUEL, AND WATER TO CIVILIANS.

>> WE DID NOT WANT THIS WAR , IT WAS INITIATED BY HAMAS.

BUT WE ARE ACTING TO RESPOND FORCIBLY AND TO WIN DECISIVELY.

AND IT IS CRUCIAL CRUCIAL THAT WE WIN DECISIVELY FOR TWO REASONS.

NUMBER ONE, WE WANT TO COME OUT OF THIS CONFLICT WITH THE NEW REALITY IN GAZA WITH A CRUST HAMAS, WHERE THEY WILL NO LONGER BE A TERRORIST ORGANIZATION IN GAZA WITH EITHER THE DESIRE, OR THE CAPABILITY TO HURT US.

SECONDLY , AND ONCE AGAIN, YOU KNOW THESE ISSUES BETTER THAN MOST.

LEBANON, IRAN OVER THE HORIZON , THEY ARE LOOKING .

THEY PERCEIVED WEAKNESS , IF THEY BELIEVE THAT YOU CAN HIT ISRAEL WITH IMPURITY, IT WILL JUST BE HIT AGAIN, AND AGAIN, AND AGAIN.

IS CRUCIAL FOR ISRAEL , AND I WOULD ARGUE FOR THE REGION, AND FOR THE WORLD THAT WE DEFEAT HAMAS DECISIVELY., YOU ASK ME ABOUT CIVILIAN CASUALTIES.

>> AND FOOD, A FEW ON WATER .

>> WITHOUT CIVILIAN CASUALTIES.

>> I WILL GET TO THAT.

I AM NOT INVADING ANY QUESTION CHECK THE ISSUE OF CIVILIAN TEASED HIM ABOUT THE BUZZER MEMBER THE WAR AGAINST THE LOCKS EVENTS.

A JUSTIFIED WAR , A CORRECT WAR.

A RIGHTEOUS WAR.

BUT HOW MANY INNOCENT CIVILIANS WERE KILLED IN THAT WAR?

WHERE THEY HAVE NOT BEEN CIVILIAN TEES.

BUT TO SAY TO ISRAEL YOU CANNOT DEFEND YOURSELF, EVEN THOUGH SOME OF THE SERENDIPITOUS PERIOD NO, I'M NOT SAYING THAT.

I'M NOT SAYING THAT, SIR.

I AM NOT SAYING THAT PERSPECTIVE IN THE HAMAS , AND I THINK YOU ARE SAYING IT.

YEAH.

>> I'M SAFELY ASKING YOU HOW STARVING THE POPULATION IS GOING TO HELP YOUR WAR EFFORT?

THAT IS ALL.

>> SO, I WILL ANSWER THAT NOW WITH YOU.

THEY DECLARED WAR ON US , AND THEN THEY EXPECT BUSINESS AS USUAL.

THAT THE CROSSINGS BE OPEN, THAT THE CHANNELS OF MEDIATION BE OPEN.

NO, YOU DECLARED WAR ON US, SO IT IS WAR.

YOU CAN HAVE WAR AND COOPERATION THE SAME TIME, THEY DON'T GO TOGETHER.

IS THERE AN EXAMPLE OF ONE COUNTRY ATTACKING ANOTHER?

, AND I THINK WELL, WE HAVE TRAINED TOGETHER, WE THE COMMUNITY TOGETHER.

NO, YOU DECLARED WAR ON US.

THERE ARE CONSEQUENCES OF THOSE DECISIONS.

IF YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT ELECTRICITY, FIRST OF ALL, WE KNOW THAT THE ELECTRICITY IS BEING USED FOR THEIR MILITARY MACHINE.

BUT PUT THAT ASIDE FOR A MOMENT.

WE KNOW THAT HAMAS ROCKETS HAVE DESTROYED A LARGE PART OF THE GRID THAT BRINGS ILLITERACY TO GAZA.

SO, WHAT IS THE ABSURDITY?

ISRAEL SUPPOSED TO FIX THE GRID THAT THEY DESTROYED SO THEY CAN HAVE ELECTRICITY FOR THEIR OWN MISSILE TO FIRE MORE AGAIN?

I AM SORRY, IT IS NOT LOGIC.

MIKE ALL RIGHT.

I HEAR YOU, BUT YOU BROUGHT UP THE BALKANS, AND YOU KNOW THAT UNDER SIEGE OF SERI I'LL BE, THE NATIONAL COMMUNITY AIRLIFTED FOOD AND MILITARY AID.

WE CAN TALK MORE ABOUT THIS LATER, AND I APPRECIATE YOU BEING WITH US , AND WE WILL HAVE YOU ON AGAIN.

SENIOR ADVISER TO PRIME MINISTER.

THANK YOU.

NOW WE DO GO TO GAZA, WHERE AN ALREADY DIRE THE SITUATION IS POVERTY-STRICKEN ENCLAVE IS ONLY GETTING WORSE.

AS WE SAID, THERE IS NO ELECTRICITY, YOU HEARD MARK TALK ABOUT IT.

OTHER THAN WHAT IS COMING FROM GENERATORS , AND EVEN THOSE ARE ABOUT TO GO DARK.

THE RED CROSS SAYS HOSPITALS RISK TURNING INTO MORGUES.

AT LEAST 1400 PEOPLE HAVE BEEN KILLED THERE SINCE ISRAEL STARTED THOSE RETALIATORY STRIKES ACCORDING TO THE PALESTINIAN MINISTER OF HEALTH.

ISRAEL SIEGE MEANS AS I SAID, VERY LITTLE CAN GET IN, AND THE AT AND IS CAPABLE RISK OF STARVATION.

LISTEN TO THE DESPERATION OF THESE TWO MEN.

>> I DO NOT KNOW HOW WE WILL PROVIDE FOOD FOR OUR CHILDREN .

I'M SEARCHING HERE UNDER THE RUBBLE FOR REMAINS OF LENTILS AND RICE.

>> WE ARE CIVILIANS WHO HAVE NO CONNECTION TO POLITICAL ORGANIZATIONS.

WE RETURN HERE TO FIND THE HOUSE HAD BECOME RUBBLE.

THE ENTIRE AREA HAD BEEN DESTROYED.

WE NOW HAVE BECOME HOMELESS.

WE HAVE NOTHING BUT THE CLOTHES WE WEAR.

>> IN THIS FIRST-HAND REPORT FOR BRITAIN'S CHANNEL 4 NEWS, FILMMAKER USE OF HAMAS SHOWS US WHAT LIFE IS LIKE INSIDE THE TERRITORY AS THOUGH STRIKES CONTINUE, AND AS YOU MIGHT EXPECT, SOME OF THE IMAGES IN THIS REPORT ARE DISTURBING.

>> YOU CAN'T HEAR YOURSELF THINK.

IT IS NOT JUST THE NOISE OF THE SIRENS IN THE STRIKES.

THE SOUND OF THE CHAOS IN BETWEEN IS JUST RELENTLESS.

PURE PANIC EVERYWHERE YOU LOOK AT THIS LITTLE BOY WAS PULLED OUT ALIVE, HIS FACE BLACKENED.

HIS RESCUER RUSHES TO HIS MOTHER.

BEFORE SHE CAN EMBRACE HIM , SHE PASSES OUT IN SHOCK.

THIS WOMAN IS DRIVING OFF BEFORE THE BOOT CAN BE SHOT.

WE HAVE BEEN TOLD TO GET OUT.

BUT WHERE DO WE GO?

AND HOW DO WE GET THERE?

THERE ARE MORE THAN 2 MILLION PEOPLE LIVING HERE.

ALMOST HALF ARE CHILDREN.

FAMILIES ARE RUSHING, TRYING TO MAKE PLANS , EVERY SECOND MATTERS.

GAZA IS UNDER A COMPLETE SIEGE.

NO WATER, NO FOOD, NO ELECTRICITY.

NO ESCAPE.

IT IS TOO HARD.

SOME ALMOST GIVE UP.

BUT YOU CAN'T STAND STILL FOR LONG.

>> PLEASE, MY FAMILY, THEY'RE JUST KIDS.

>> WE ARE NOT STRANGERS TO WAR.

BUT HOW IT FEELS THIS TIME, IT'S HARD TO FIND THE WORDS.

IT FEELS LIKE THE WORLD IS COLLAPSING.

MANY ARE FOUND DEAD, EVEN MORE MISSING.

THIS WOMAN CANNOT FIND HER SON.

>> I HAVE NOT HEARD FROM HIM SINCE SATURDAY.

I HAVE NOT HEARD ANYTHING FROM HIM, NOTHING.

>> IT IS THE FAMILY, THEY ARE GATHERING ALTOGETHER, ALSO IN PLACE AWAY .

>> I WAS TRYING TO EXPLAIN THINGS, BUT I THINK YOU CAN HEAR THEM NOW.

>> I AM WALKING RIGHT NOW CLOSE TO MY HOME, CLOSE TO MY BUILDING, BUT I SWEAR I COULD NOT RECOGNIZE THIS STRAIGHT.

I'M ALSO AFRAID WALKING BECAUSE IN A MINUTE, ANYTHING MAY EXPLODE .

>> THIS AFTERNOON I MET LISTING ON THE CLOSE STRAIGHT TO HER HOME PATIENCE NOW IS NOT EVEN TAKE TO WALK.

AS YOU CAN SEE HERE, THIS BUILDING CAUGHT FIRE AS WELL OTHER THAN THE APARTMENTS THAT HAPPEN , SO IS NOT SAFE, NOTHING IS SAFE, LITERALLY.

>> THIS IS AN AMBULANCE.

>> SHE IS AFRAID OF WHAT IS HAPPENING NOW , AND WHAT MIGHT HAPPEN NEXT.

>> THAT WAS USE OF HAMAS REPORTING FROM INSIDE GAZA.

AND IT IS IMPORTANT TO KNOW THAT AT LEAST SEVEN JOURNALISTS HAVE BEEN KILLED IN GAZA SINCE SATURDAY ACCORDING TO THE COMMITTEE TO PROTECT JOURNALISTS.

LET'S GO NOW TO THE BRITISH PEDOPHILIA AND SURGEON WHO LEFT LONDON FOR GAZA ON SUNDAY AS IT WAS CLEAR WHAT WAS UNFOLDING AFTER THAT SLAUGHTER IN ISRAEL.

1300 PEOPLE THERE HAVE BEEN KILLED ACCORDING TO ISRAELI OFFICIALS.

BUT LET ME ASK YOU, BECAUSE WE WANT TO KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON AND HOW YOU ARE ABLE TO HELP AS A DOCTOR WHO HAS COME FROM ABROAD TO HELP OBVIOUSLY THOSE CIVILIANS WHO ARE, YOU KNOW, CLEARLY GOING TO BE WOUNDED AND KILLED.

WHAT YOU BEEN ABLE TO DO FOR THEM SO FAR?

DOCTOR.

>> THE PROBLEM IS THE SHEER SIZE OF THE CALAMITY THAT HAS BEEN FALLEN GAZA.

6500 WOUNDED, AND SIX DAYS PUT IN PLACE WITH A TOTAL OF THAT CAPACITY IS 2500.

THIS IS COMPLETELY OVERWHELMING THE HEALTH SYSTEM.

WHICH IS ALREADY ON ITS KNEES AT THE END OF 15 YEARS OF SIEGE.

THE HEALTH SYSTEM IS UNABLE TO COPE .

WE ARE DOWN ON CONSUMABLES , ON THE VERY MATERIAL THAT WE NEED TO BE ABLE TO TREAT PATIENTS WHETHER THEY ARE DRESSINGS, OR ANESTHETICS EQUIPMENT .

OR DISPOSABLE.

AND THE CAPACITY , THE OPERATING ROOM CAPACITY OF MOST HOSPITALS IN GAZA IS UNABLE TO COPE WITH THE SHEER NUMBER OF PATIENTS WHO NEED TO BE TAKEN TO THE OPERATING ROOMS, AND THE PATIENTS WHO NOW ARE CRITICALLY ILL AND NEED INTENSIVE CARE UNITS.

>> DR. , CAN YOU TELL ME WHAT IS THE EFFECT, AND ARE YOU FEELING IT YET?

OF THE BLOCKADE AS DEFENSE MINISTER ANNOUNCED A FEW DAYS AGO AS I WAS JUST TALKING TO A SENIOR GOVERNMENT ADVISER ABOUT.

YOU KNOW, THE FOOD, THE FUEL, THE WATER.

DO YOU HAVE ENOUGH WATER?

DO PEOPLE HAVE FOOD?

IS IT GOING TO RUN OUT?

>> SO, THE THING THAT YOU LOOK AT MOST WHEN YOU'RE IN THE HOSPITAL IS THE ABSENCE OF BASIC MEDICAL NEEDS.

EQUIPMENT THAT YOU NEED TO BE ABLE TO TREAT THE PATIENT.

ALSO ALL OF THE HOSPITALS NOW ARE COMPLETELY DEPENDENT ON GENERATORS FOR ELECTRICITY.

AND DIESEL IS ONE OF THOSE THINGS THAT IS NOW NOT COMING IN AS A RESULT OF THIS TOTAL BLOCKADE.

YOU SEE THESE WATER TANKS THAT ARE BEING DELIVERED TO HOMES AND TO HOSPITALS , AND ALL AROUND THE CLOCK EVEN THOUGH THERE IS CONTINUOUS BOMBING.

THE MOMENT IS NOT SHORT, BUT THERE IS OVER 200,000 PEOPLE DISPLACED .

A LOT OF THEM, OF THE HOSPITAL .

GAZA'S MAIN HOSPITAL OR WITH RELATIVE, THIS PEOPLE HAVE LOST THEIR HOMES, HAVE LOST THEIR ABILITY TO FEND FOR THEMSELVES AND FEED FOR THEMSELVES.

AND SO, WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT IS A CATASTROPHE , A MAN-MADE CATASTROPHE THAT IS ALMOST LIKE A PERFECT STORM .

PEOPLE ARE DISPLACED, THEIR HOMES ARE DESTROYED.

A CRIPPLED HEALTH SYSTEM AS A RESULT OF THE SIEGE, AND NUMBERS BEYOND THE CAPACITY OF THE HEALTH SYSTEM TO DEAL WITH.

>> DR. HASSAN, I CAN ASK YOU SOMETHING?

YOU CAME IN SOMEHOW INTO GAZA FROM THE UK, I'M ASSUMING FROM THE EGYPTIAN SIDE , THE RIGHT BORDER.

AND YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW ISRAEL HAS TOLD PEOPLE TO LEAVE, JUST LEAVE , SEEK SHELTER, LEAVE.

IS THERE TWO WAY TRAFFIC?

ARE PEOPLE ABLE TO LEAVE WITH YOU ABLE TO COME IN.

>> SO, I WAS PART OF ALASKA PEOPLE THAT KIND OF GOT IN ON MONDAY MORNING.

EARLY HOURS OF MONDAY MORNING.

AND I THINK SOON AFTER THEY BOMBED THE AREA AROUND AND FORTH IT SHUT.

THAT HAS NOT BEEN ANYBODY IN, AND CERTAINLY NO ONE HAS BEEN OUT SINCE THEN.

I THINK THE CROSSING HAS BEEN SHOT SINCE THEN.

>> AND TELL ME , WHAT MOTIVATED YOU TO GO THERE?

AND HAVE YOU DONE THIS BEFORE IN OTHER WAR ZONES?

>> SO , I HAVE BEEN TO GAZA'S WARS IN THE 2009 ATTACK ON GAZA , 2012 AND 14 , AND 2021 .

AND I HAVE WORKED IN THE MN, WORKED IN DAMASCUS .

I AM A PLASTIC AND OVER THE YEARS DEVELOPED A EXPERTISE IN WAR SURGERY .

AND AS A PALESTINIAN I AM DRIVEN TO, YOU KNOW, CONTINUALLY COME BACK AND HELP MY PEOPLE HERE.

WHO ARE UNDER CONTINUOUS ATTACK.

AND AS SOMEONE WHO HAS WORKED IN THE HEALTH SYSTEM IN GAZA , I'M COMPLETELY AWARE OF THE SHORT FULL IN TERMS OF EQUIPMENT AND EXPERTISE AND MATERIAL THAT EXIST IN THE SYSTEM.

>> AND CAN YOU TELL ME WHAT KIND OF INJURIES YOU ARE SEEING MOST OF?

IS IT COME I KNOW YOU TALK ABOUT BURNS, NOT HAVING THE RIGHT DISINFECTANT TO RUBDOWN BURNS BEFORE TREATMENT.

BUT WHAT OTHER INJURIES ARE YOU TREATING?

>> SO, THE OVERWHELMING MAJORITY OF THE WOUNDED ARE COMING FROM THE RUBBLE OF THEIR OWN HOME.

AND 40% OF THE WOUNDED ARE CHILDREN.

AND THEY ARE INJURED BY THE BLAST, SHRAPNEL , MASONRY THAT FLIES IN AND DAMAGES THEIR BODIES , OR THEY ARE CRUSHED UNDER THE RUBBLE OF THEIR OWN HOME.

SO, ALL OF THESE INJURIES ARE EXTREMELY CONTAMINATED , AND REQUIRE SURGERIES.

AND REPEATED SURGERIES.

THE DEVASTATING THING IS WITH CHILDREN THIS IS A LIFETIME WORTH OF RECONSTRUCTIVE SURGERY AS THAT BODY , THAT CHILD'S BODY TRICYCLE IN THE FUTURE, THESE KIDS WILL NEED SURGERY AFTER SURGERY , AS WE HAVE SEEN WITH THE KIDS IN GAZA'S PREVIOUS WARS, OR IN SYRIA , OR ANYWHERE WERE CHILDREN ARE HURT IN THESE COUNTRIES.

AND FINALLY, DR., WHAT ABOUT FAMILY?

DO YOU HAVE FAMILY THERE IN GAZA?

IN THE TERRITORY THERE?

>> SO, MY FAMILY WERE REFUGEES IN GAZA IN '48.

MY FATHER LEFT GAZA IN THE 50s AND MOVED TO KUWAIT.

I STILL HAVE COUSINS WHO LIVE IN GAZA.

AND IN THOSE WHO LIVE IN GAZA .

AND ON THE FIRST DAY OF ARRIVING, I WENT TO MY GREAT UNCLES HOUSE , AND WE HAD TO BE EVACUATED ON THE FIRST DAY BECAUSE THE AREA WAS BEING TARGETED .

WE MOVED TO A COUSIN'S HOUSE, AND WE WERE PINNED DOWN FOR THE FIRST NIGHT OF BOMBING.

AND IT DID NOT MAKE IT TO THE HOSPITAL UNTIL THE TUESDAY MORNING.

WHEN I WENT BACK TO PICK UP MY BELONGINGS FOR MY UNCLES HOUSE, WE HAD DISCOVERED THAT THE HOUSE HAD BEEN SEVERELY DAMAGED BECAUSE THE WHOLE NEIGHBORHOOD HAD BEEN BOMBED THAT EVENING.

>> DR., THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US FROM INSIDE GAZA.

NOW, QUESTIONS ARE BEING ASKED ABOUT THE RAMIFICATIONS OF THIS CRISIS, AND HOW THE REGION GOT HERE IN THE FIRST PLACE, AND WHERE IT IS GOING TO END UP.

SO, LET'S GET SOME PERSPECTIVE NOW.

HURRY AS A HISTORIAN OF PUBLIC INTELLECTUAL, AND HE JOINS ME NOW IN LONDON.

WELCOME BACK TO OUR PROGRAM.

>> THANK YOU, CHRISTIANE.

>> WHEN THIS ALL HAPPENED , ISRAELIS WERE SAYING IN THE WORLD WAS EMMA GOSS, LOOK AT THIS DATE.

OCTOBER 7th, I WAS EXACTLY 50 YEARS SINCE YOUNG POOR.

AND THEY THOUGHT MAYBE THAT WAS THE CONTEXT IN WHICH TO LOOK AT IT.

BUT IT IS NOT LIKE THAT ANYMORE, IS IT?

>> OH, AND ISRAEL NOBODIES IN TRANSIT COMPARISONS WITH THE CALLS HOLOCAUST, COMPARISONS .

WAVES FULL CENTURIES AGAINST .

BECAUSE WHAT HAPPENED IS THAT ENTIRE COMMUNITIES WERE SLAUGHTERED , SYSTEMATICALLY .

IT A ATTACK ON MILITARY UNITS , ON MILITARY BASES.

IT WAS AN ATTACK STAND AT SICKLY ANNIHILATE ENTIRE COMMUNIQUÉS , AUNT AND UNCLE LIVE IN ONE OF THESE MOVIES.

THEY HID THEMSELVES IN THEIR HOUSE AS TOURISTS JUST ONCE.

HAMAS TOOK OVER THE ENTIRE VILLAGE, AND THIS WAS THE HOURS MOVED SYSTEMATICALLY FROM HOUSE TO HOUSE, SLAUGHTERING FAMILY AFTER FAMILY.

MY UNCLE IS 99 YEARS OLD, AND MY AUNT, 89 YEARS OLD, THEY HID THEMSELVES IN THEIR HOUSE, THEY SOMEHOW SURVIVE.

BUT MANY OF MY FRIENDS AND FAMILY THEY JUST RECEIVED THE WORSE NEWS OF THEIR LIVES.

AND THE REAL SHOCK IN ISRAEL ABOUT THE INABILITY OF THE ARMY TO REACH THESE VILLAGES IN TIME.

AGAIN, THE MEMORIES THEY GO BACK TO THE HOLOCAUST, AND TO THE PROGRAMS.

AND THE OTHER THING WHICH IS REALLY SHOCKING, AND REALLY CHANGES THE WHOLE PERSPECTIVE, BECAUSE WE HAVE BEEN THROUGH THESE ROUNDS OF VIOLENCE EVERY TWO OR THREE YEARS.

BUT THE THING FOR THE CISCO FLU DIFFERENT NOW.

THE TERRORISTS, THEY NOT ONLY WENT AFTER CIVILIANS , BUT THEY MURDERED THEM AND TORTURED THEM, DELIBERATELY AND IN JUST THE WORST POSSIBLE WAYS THEY COULD IMAGINE .

I MEAN, DECAPITATIONS, PARENTS OF CHILDREN.

AND THE THIRD THING IS THEY DID NOT TRY TO HIDE THE ATROCITIES.

THE WAY DELIBERATELY WANTED PEOPLE TO SEE THE ATROCITIES , EVEN DOWN TO FILMING THEM AND POSTING THEM ONLINE, AND SOCIAL MEDIA.

AND YOU ASK YOURSELF WHY WOULD THEY DO THAT?

AND THE IMPRESSIONIST , THEY JUST WANTED TO, AND A PSYCHOLOGICAL WARFARE .

AGAIN, ISIS STYLE , AND NOT ONLY TO SPREAD TO TERROR, BUT TO SO SEE THE PATRIOT THAT WILL ENSURE THAT THIS TURBINE CONFLICT WILL GO ON FOR GENERATIONS.

YOU KNOW, PART OF THE BACKGROUND IS THE APPROACH FOR DEAL BETWEEN ISRAEL AND SAUDI ARABIA , A PEACE AGREEMENT.

I SHOULD HAVE INCLUDED ALSO SOME IMPROVEMENT IN THE SITUATION OVER THE PALESTINIAN .

THIS IS THE BACKGROUND TO THIS ATTACK.

AND HAMAS IS FACING ITS FOUNDATION BUT NEVER ACCEPTED THE EXISTENCE OF ISRAEL, NEVER ACCEPTED ANY ATTEMPTED PEACE .

THE AIM WAS NOT JUST TO DESTROY JEWISH COMMUNITIES , BUT TO ASSASSINATE ANY CHANCE FOR PEACE.

>> AT 70 CHILDREN AS WELL AS YOU MENTIONED.

THEY WERE SLAUGHTERED , AND THERE ARE EVEN CHILDREN WHO HAVE BEEN TAKEN HOSTAGE WE UNDERSTAND.

>> GUESS PATIENCE AND ARE IN GAZA.

A REALLY THOUGHTFUL PERSON, AND YOUR WHOLE CAREER, AND YOUR PUBLIC INTELLECTUAL IS BASED ON COMPLEX.

IS THERE A MORAL MAZE, IS THERE AN ABILITY TO HOLD TWO THOUGHTS AT ONE TIME.

THAT THAT SAUTER IS THE WORST THING THAT COULD HAPPEN?

AND THAT EVERYBODY HAS THE RIGHT TO LIVE WHAT IS RIGHT RIGHTS AND DIGNITY, INCLUDING THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE, AND I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT HAMAS.

I'M TALKING ABOUT THE LEGITIMATE ASPIRATIONS OF THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE FOR 75 YEARS AND 56 UNDER OCCUPATION.

>> ASPIRATED IS THE BIG CHALLENGE.

IT SHOULD BE POSSIBLE TO UNDERSTAND THAT YOU CAN BE VICTOR AND PERPETRATOR AT THE SAME TIME.

THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS TO MOST PEOPLE IN HISTORY, MOST NATIONS IN HISTORY, THERE ARE SOMETIMES VICTIMS, THERE IS PERPETRATORS, THEY ARE SOMETIMES BOTH AT THE SAME TIME.

BUT THIS IS THE KIND OF COMPLEXITY THAT IS ESPECIALLY, WHEN YOU STAND THOUSANDS OF KILOS JUST FOR THE CONFLICT, YOU CAN SEE IT.

BUT FOR THE PEOPLE ON THE GROUND , IT IS IMPOSSIBLE.

WHICH IS JUST PSYCHOLOGICALLY IMPOSSIBLE.

>> NOW?

OR EVER?

>> WELL, HOPEFULLY, AGAIN, I'M TALKING ABOUT HAMAS TRYING TO SELL THESE SEEDS OF HATRED.

HOPEFULLY WE CAN SOW SEEDS THAT WILL NOT HAVE ANY FRUIT RIGHT NOW, BUT MAKE A FRUIT IN DECADES , AND MAKE IT POSSIBLE TO RECONCILE , YOU, SITTING THERE WITH THE RELEASE OF ALL THE HOSTAGES.

AND IT IS POSSIBLE FOR THESE RECONCILIATIONS TO HAPPEN IN HISTORY WE REMEMBER ONLY THE ATROCITIES.

>> I JUST HEARD YOU TALKING ABOUT THE BALKANS , AND THE WARS IN YUGOSLAVIA IN THE 1990S.

EVERYBODY RUMORS THE WARS IN YUGOSLAVIA IN 1990S, THEY DON'T THE WARS BETWEEN POLAND, LITHUANIA AND UKRAINE IN THE BECAUSE THEY DID NOT ATTACK THEM.

THE HISTORY OF RELATIONS BETWEEN POLLS AND LITHUANIANS AND UKRAINIANS IS, WAS AS BAD AS BETWEEN SERBS AND CROATS , AND BASTIEN'S PREVIOUSLY.

DURING THE 1940S, THERE WERE SLAUGHTERS AND DEPORTATIONS OF HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF BOTH SIDES.

AND WHAT HAPPENED?

AT THE SAME TIME OF THE WARS IN YUGOSLAVIA.

THE POLISH GOVERNMENT .

THERE WAS A CONSCIOUS DECISION OF THE PORES IN THE EARLY 1990S HISTORY HISTORY.

WE LOOK TO THE FUTURE .

AND THEY TOLD, WE DON'T WANT THESE BACK, WE WANT TO BUILD A FUTURE TOGETHER.

>> AND I UKRAINE AND POLAND, AND LITHUANIA ARE FIGHTING FOR THE SURVIVAL OF DEMOCRACY FOR UKRAINE FOR EVERYONE.

SO YOU HAVE WRITTEN A PIECE, A COLUMN FOR THE WASHINGTON POST IN THE AFTERMATH OF WHAT HAPPENED ON SATURDAY.

YOU HAVE TALKED ABOUT THE SURVIVABILITY OF DEMOCRACY AND PUTTING IN YOUR OWN COUNTRY IN THAT WHAT HAPPENS IS IMPORTANT FOR THE REST OF THE WORLD.

I GUESS HE DID SAY, AND I WILL SEE THAT ACTUALLY FIGHT IT , HOW DID THIS HAPPEN?

HOW DID THE STATE OF ISRAEL GO MISSING IN ACTION ON ONE LEVEL ISRAELIS ARE PRAYING THE PRICE FOR YEARS OF CUPROUS DURING WHICH I GOVERNMENT AND MANY ORDINARY ISRAELIS FELT LIKE THEY WERE SO MUCH STRONGER THAN THE PALESTINIANS THAT WE CAN JUST IGNORE THEM.

ET CETERA.

BUT THEN, OF COURSE YOU SAID THIS DOES NOT JUSTIFY ANY ATROCITIES.

WE ALSO SAY THAT IT IS THE PERIL OF POPULISM EVEN IN YOUR OWN COUNTRY.

>> IS, I MEAN I'VE HEARD THE GOVERNMENT SPOKESPERSON TALKS ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THE MILITARY, THE INTELLIGENCE, YES, OBVIOUSLY THIS HAS TO BE LOOKED INTO.

BUT IT IS VERY CLEAR I THINK TO MOST ISRAELIS THAT THIS GOES WAY DEEPER AND LONGER.

THAT WE HAVE HAD STRONG LEADER, BENJAMIN NETANYAHU WHO BUILT HIS CAREER ON DIVIDING THE NATION AGAINST ITSELF FOR YEARS , ON ATTACKING STATE INSTITUTIONS THAT OPPOSE THESE POLICIES, ON SPENDING SPREADING CONSPIRACY THEORIES, AND LABELING THE SIMULATES OF THE COUNTRIES AS THE STATE CRATERS BITTERNESS OVER MANY YEARS CORRODED THE BASIC INSTITUTIONS OF THIS ESTATE .

THIS IS WHY NOW THE STATE HAS BEEN MISSING IN THE HOUR OF GREATEST NEED.

OF THE CITIZENS.

THIS IS SOMETHING THAT PEOPLE IN DEMOCRACIES ALL OVER THE WORLD SHOULD LEARN THE LESSONS FROM OUR TRAGEDY IN THIS SENSE.

THAT IF YOU ALLOW YOUR COUNTRY TO BE DIVIDED AND AGAINST ITSELF TO SUCH A DEGREE , THERE COULD BE A VERY, VERY HIGH PRICE TO PAY FOR YOUR PATIENCE AND THERE IS A VERY HIGH PRICE HAS BEEN PAID.

I MEAN ON THE GROUND, INSIDE ISRAEL.

DO YOU BELIEVE THAT THAT THIS SAME LEADER, AND ASKED THIS TO MARK AS WELL, THE STUDENT ADVISER.

CAN ACTUALLY , YOU KNOW, HE'S BEEN ALL THESE YEARS AS YOU SAID DIVIDING, CAN ACTUALLY UNITE THEM IN ORDER TO GO TO VICTORY IS WHAT THEY SAY.

>> THE FIRST STEP IS SIMPLY TO TELL ISRAELIS THAT HE APOLOGIZES FOR WHAT HE HAS DONE IN PREVIOUS YEARS.

AND TAKING RESPONSIBILITY.

AND I AM NOT A POLITICIAN, I CANNOT TELL YOU EXACTLY HOW TO DO IT, AND WHAT KIND OF GOVERNMENT TO FORM, BUT ON THE MOST BASIC LEVEL, ONE OF HIS MINISTERS DID IT.

THE MINISTER OF EDUCATION SAID WE HAVE BEEN DEALING WITH NONSENSE.

FOR THE PAST YEAR , AND BASICALLY TOOK SUMMERS THIS IS, YOU KNOW, TO MOVE ON, MANY ISRAELIS WE SEE, I MEAN GOVERNMENT MINISTERS, WHEN THEY VISIT HOSPITALS, THERE ARE NOW BEING HOUNDED BY THE CITIZENS.

AND JUST SAY, I MEAN DON'T EVEN RESIGN, JUST START BY SAYING WE ARE SORRY.

IT IS AS SIMPLE AS THAT.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH .

THANK YOU FOR COMING IN.

THANK YOU.

IN OUR NEXT GUEST IS DR. RAJEEV SHAW, HE HAS WORKED EXCESSIVELY IN EMERGENCY RELIEF, HAS LED U.S. A I.D.

RESPONSES ACROSS THE WEB AND HIS NEW BOOK TACKLE SOME OF THE MOST TOUGHEST AND PERSISTENT ISSUES OF OUR TIME, HE IS JOINING HARRY TO DISCUSS HOW DECISION-MAKERS COULD LEARN FROM CONFLICTS AND EDELMAN CHANGE.

I THANK SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

I KNOW YOU ARE THE HEAD OF THE ROCKEFELLER FOUNDATION NOW, AND YOU HAVE WORKED AT THE GATES FOUNDATION , USAID, AND YOU KNOW SOME OF THOSE EXPENSES BEFORE WE GET INTO THIS NEW BOOK THAT YOU HAVE CALL BIG BETS.

I WANT TO ASK A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS ABOUT THE CRISIS IS UNFOLDING IN FRONT OF OUR EYES RIGHT NOW IN ISRAEL.

YOU HAVE SOME EXPERIENCE DEALING WITH THE AFTERMATH OF DISASTERS LIKE HAITI , AND WORKING IN WAR-TORN AREAS.

AND I WONDER RIGHT NOW, WHAT ARE YOU ADVISING THE U.S. GOVERNMENT WHEN IT COMES TO FIGURING OUT HOW WE CAN HELP SOLVE WHAT IS LIKELY A HUMANITARIAN CRISIS.

>> AKAMAI WILL HARRY GREAT TO SEE YOU, AND THANK YOU FOR ASKING THAT.

I THINK, YOU KNOW, DECADES OF EXPERIENCE WORKING IN CONFLICT ZONES DURING CONFLICTS TEACHES US THAT THERE IS A VERY SIMPLE SET OF PARTICLES THE U.S. GOVERNMENT AND THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT SHOULD TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION.

I THINK FIRST, I THINK WILL HAVE TO FULLY APPRECIATE 1200 ISRAELIS KILLED IN AN ICILY HORRIFIC TERRORIST ATTACK SHOULD BE CONDEMNED, CALLED FOR WHAT IT IS, AND WARRANTS A STRONG, AGGRESSIVE RESPONSE TO ISRAEL, TO ALLOW ISRAEL TO PROTECT ITSELF PERIOD.

SECOND , YOU KNOW, AS ISRAEL, AND ITS ALLIES INCLUDING THE UNITED STATES APPROACH THIS, WE HAVE TO APPROACH THIS WITH A 3- D APPROACH.

DEFENSE, DIPLOMACY, AND DEVELOPMENT IN HUMAN.

AFFAIRS.

AND ON THE DEFENSE SIDE, WE ARE SEEING ALREADY AN AGGRESSIVE RESPONSE ON THE DRAMATIC SIDE, AND HENCE THE POLICY THROUGHOUT THE REGION IS ACTUALLY GOING TO BE CRITICAL TO CREATING AN ENVIRONMENT WHERE THE REGION DOES NOT DESTABILIZE FURTHER AS IT HAS BEEN PRONE TO DO IN PRIOR SITUATIONS THAT ARE AKIN TO THIS.

AND INCLUSIVE OF DEVELOPMENT, YOU KNOW, 62% OF THE GAZA POPULATION WAS FOOD INSECURE PRIOR TO THIS.

ALMOST A QUARTER OF THE POPULACE WAS GETTING HUMANITARIAN ASSISTANCE FROM THE UNITED STATES AND OTHERS , AND CONDONED BY AND SUPPORTED BY ISRAEL PRIOR TO THIS, YOU KNOW, IF THERE IS A MASSIVE UNITARIAN CATASTROPHE, AS IT LOOKS LIKE WE WILL HAVE, THAT WILL DESTABILIZE THE REGION IN A WAY THAT ACTS AGAINST ISRAELI NATIONAL INTEREST.

FRANKLY, LOSING THE HEARTS AND MINDS , AND THE VALUE PROPOSITION THAT ISRAEL FIRMLY HAS RIGHT NOW WILL FURTHER UNDERMINE ISRAELI NATIONAL SECURITY IN THE MEDIUM AND LONG TERM.

AND WHAT WE HAVE SEEN IN SO MANY DIFFERENT EXAMPLES IS A FEW SPECIFIC CONSIDERATIONS ON THE FRONT AND CAN HELP MAKE SURE THAT LONG-TERM AND MIDDLE TERM NATIONAL SECURITY IS MORE ROBUST.

>> YOU KNOW, ONE OF THINGS THAT YOU SAY IN YOUR BOOK, TO TRY TO GET PEOPLE TO OPEN UP KIND OF POSSIBILITIES AND CREATIVE WAYS OF THINKING IS A QUESTION, WHAT WOULD YOU DO IF YOU HAD A MAGIC WAND?

AND I WONDER IN CONFLICT SITUATIONS LIKE THIS, HOW DO YOU EVEN APPROACH SIDES THAT REALLY ARE TO SEEING RED?

>> YEAH.

WELL, LOOK, WE HAVE SEEN IS AUGUSTINE AGAIN -- AFGHANISTAN WHO HAVE SEEN THIS IN SOME SETTINGS, AND THE TRUTH IS, THERE ARE TACTICS AND APPROACHES ONE CAN TAKE TO PROTECT HUMANITARIAN PRIORITIES EVEN DURING CONFLICT .

AND THEY CAN BE BANKED INTO DIFFERENT STRATEGIES AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, BAKED INTO THE MEDICAL STUDIES., ISRAEL HAS RIGHTLY SUGGESTED FOR THE PURPOSE OF SAVING CIVILIAN LIVES, THAT PEOPLE IN GAZA HAVE TO EVACUATE.

AKAMAI EVACUATION OBVIOUSLY IN THAT REGION IS VERY, VERY, VERY DIFFICULT.

THERE IS, YOU KNOW, IT REQUIRES ACTIVE COLLABORATION WITH OTHER LIKE-MINDED NATIONS TO TAKE PEOPLE IN.

AND YOU CAN IMAGINE ALL KINDS OF DIFFERENT EFFORTS THAT ARE ALREADY BEING DISCUSSED TO HELP PEOPLE AND CIVILIANS IN PARTICULAR NOT BE PRESENT WHEN THERE ARE IMPENDING AND SIGNIFICANT VIOLENT ATTACKS THAT ARE COMING AND ALREADY PRESENT.

SO, THOSE ARE THE TYPES OF THINGS THAT WE HAVE SEEN WORK IN SOME OTHER SETTINGS.

BECAUSE I JUST KEEP COMING BACK TO THE BASIC POINT, IT IS OUR NATIONAL SECURITY INTEREST, AND ISRAEL'S NATIONAL SECURITY INTEREST TO BE ON THE RIGHT SIDE.

RIGHT NOW ISRAEL IS 100% ON THE RIGHT SIDE MORALLY, AND FROM A DEFENSE PERSPECTIVE TO PROTECT ITSELF , AND TO PROTECT ITS PEOPLE, AND TO RESPOND TO A HORRIFIC CONDONED TERRORIST ATTACK .

IF YOU TRY TO HELP ISRAEL, YOU WANT ISRAEL TO MAINTAIN A POSITION IN THE REGION IN THE WORLD FOR MANY, MANY WEEKS, MONTHS, AND YEARS TO COME.

>> NOW AS YOU MENTIONED , THERE ARE ALREADY SOME PEOPLE THAT WERE FOOD INSECURE.

AND SINCE THIS SORT OF SEES HAS HAPPENED , ISRAEL HAS IN ESSENCE CUT OFF FOOD, WATER, ELECTRICITY , THAT IS INEVITABLY GOING TO FORCE AN ENORMOUS OUTFLOW OF HUMAN BEINGS .

AND AGAIN, KIND OF DRAWING BACK ON YOUR EXPENSES, HOW DO YOU PREPARE THE NEIGHBORHOOD, THE COUNTRIES NEARBY TO TRY TO ACCEPT HUMAN BEINGS THAT ARE FLEEING FOR THEIR LIVES.

MICHAEL, THIS IS WHERE AMERICA YOU KNOW, DURING THE CRISIS IN SYRIA, WE PROVIDED DEBT RELIEF , AND ACCESS TO CAPITAL MARKETS FOR JORDAN.

WE PUT RESOURCES INTO JORDAN TO BUILD OUT A LARGE-SCALE , REFUGEE CAMP AND EVEN BUILT OUT WATER INFRASTRUCTURE TO SUPPORT THE PROVISION OF PUBLIC SERVICES TO BOTH REFUGEES AND JORDANIANS.

I THINK YOU NEED A FULL ENGAGED DIALOGUE TAKING INTO ACCOUNT ALL THREE THESE, DEFENSE, POLICY, AND INVOLVEMENT TO HELP NEIGHBORING COUNTRIES HAVE THE RESOURCES, HAVE THE SUPPORT, HAVE THE EXTERNAL FINANCING QUICKLY TO BE ABLE TO TAKE IN AS MANY PEOPLE AS THEY CAN , AND PROTECT CIVILIAN LIVES, AND FRIENDLY PROTECT ISRAEL'S RIGHT TO DEFEND ITSELF, WHICH IS SACRIFICING PERSPECTIVE YOU, YOU LOOK BACK AT HIS REAL-TIME THINGS THAT REALLY DOES IN THE SHADOW OF WORLD WAR TWO THAT WE HAVE SOME OF THE GREAT INTERNATIONAL INSTITUTIONS THAT WE HAVE CREATED AS HUMANITY.

I MEAN, I KNOW THIS IS STILL CONSIDERING THAT IT IS SUCH A, HAS BEEN SUCH A LONG AND IMPRACTICAL ONE, WHAT ARE , YOU KNOW, POTENTIAL POSITIVE OUTCOMES THAT WE CAN WORK TOWARD TO PREVENT THIS FROM HAPPENING AGAIN?

MICHAEL, YOU KNOW, HARRIET IS HARD TO BE AN OPTIMIST IN THIS MOMENT RIGHT NOW.

BUT I AM AN OPTIMIST, AND I WROTE THE BOOK BIG BASKET BECAUSE I HAVE STREAM EXTRAORDINARY RECORDS BE MADE IN THE HEART OF IMMENSE PAIN AND SUFFERING.

AND YOU ARE RIGHT, AFTER WORLD WAR TWO, AMERICA REBUILT WESTERN EUROPE AND CREATED THE DIP OF ETIQUETTE FOR STRUCTURE THROUGH THE U.N., AND THE DEVELOPMENT AND STRUCTURE TO THE WORLD BANK AND IMF THAT HELPED LIFT OFF HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE AND MAINTAIN SOME DEGREE OF PEACE AND STABILITY THROUGH THAT WESTERN ALLIANCE.

I THINK COMING OUT OF THIS, WE ARE GOING TO HAVE THE SAME MOMENT AGAIN.

WE HAVE ALREADY BEEN IN A MOMENT WHERE LOWERING INCOME COUNTRIES HAVE BEEN DIVERGING FROM UPPER INCOME COUNTRIES AND THEIR RECOVERY FROM COVID.

WORLD WAR II HE SAW DIVERGENCE THERE, THAT HAS ACCELERATED FOOD CRISES, FUEL CRISES , AND POLITICAL INSTABILITY AROUND THE WORLD .

THIS IS A MOMENT WHERE WE SHOULD BE THINKING AGGRESSIVELY ABOUT HOW TO RE- ENGAGE THE DRAMATIC EFFORT IN THE REGION , AND FRANKLY IT IS AN OPPORTUNITY TO CREATE THE INSTITUTIONS AND MOBILIZE THE RESOURCES FOR THE LONG-TERM PEACE THAT I HOPE WILL COME AFTER THIS , YOU KNOW, TRAGIC WAR.

>> WILL, ONE OF THE IDEAS YOU WRITE ABOUT IN YOUR BOOK, AND YOU GATHER THIS FROM THE HEAD OF THE GATES FOUNDATION AT THE TIME WAS KIND OF STARTING WITH THE BLANK PAGE.

AND HOW DO YOU GET LEADERS TO SIT DOWN AT A TABLE AND START THINKING ABOUT A BLANK PAGE.

USUALLY FOR SUMMER SUBJECTS, THERE'S SO MUCH IN THE BACKGROUND, THERE IS SO MUCH SOMETIMES HISTORY, SYMPTOMS PAINFUL HISTORY THAT PEOPLE WANT TO BRING UP.

AND I CAN BELIEVE BELIEVE BETWEEN ANSWERS ON ABOUT A FIELD, OR BOARDROOM, OR ANYWHERE ELSE.

>> WILL YOU KNOW, YOUR WRITING ABOUT IN THE BOOKS AND THE CONTEXT OF THE REALLY EARLY DAYS OF BILL AND MELINDA GATES IS INCREDIBLE PHILANTHROPIC EFFORT.

AND THEY WANTED TO WRITE AN ARTICLE ABOUT 6000 KIDS DYING OF A DISEASE THAT WAS KILLING KIDS IN POOR COUNTRIES, THIS WAS CORONAVIRUS.

BUT VACCINES WERE AVAILABLE ONLY IN RICH COUNTRIES WERE KIDS WHEN I DIE, AND THE DISSENT THAT IS WRONG.

WHY?

BY ASKING SEVERAL QUESTIONS AND STARTING WITH A BLANK PAGE , YOU HAVE THE ABILITY TO REIMAGINE WHAT THE FUTURE COULD LOOK LIKE.

IN THE BOOK, BIG BETS, IS REALLY ABOUT REIMAGINING THE SPEECHES.

SITTING DOWN WITH THE RIGHT PEOPLE TO LOOK, RIGHT NOW I WOULD START TO THE SECOND AND THIRD TRACK PLANNING EFFORTS WITH THE PARTNERS THAT WILL BE INVOLVED IN THE POST-CONFLICT ENVIRONMENT TO CREATE STORE MORE STABILITY AND MORE PEACE AND MORE GROWTH IN IT FOR STRUCTURE AND DEVELOPMENT OPPORTUNITIES ., THE ALREADY PROVIDES SIGNIFICANT INFRASTRUCTURE SUPPORT FOR THE WEST BANK FOR EXAMPLE, VIA VIA, YOU KNOW, ISRAELI FINANCIAL SOLUTIONS, AND WITH EXPLICIT SUPPORT OF THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT BECAUSE THEY KNOW ARE THAT HUMAN OPPORTUNITIES AND HUMAN DIGNITY IS ULTIMATELY THE BASELINE FOR STABILITY AND PEACE.

AND RIGHT NOW WE ARE IN A GLOBAL FOOD CRISIS WHERE FOOD PRICES HAVE BEEN ELEVATED BECAUSE UKRAINE WAR, BUT THEY ARE ALSO LIMITED BECAUSE CLIMATE CHANGE IS CAUSING A 30% REDUCTION IN SPUTUM PRODUCTION IN MANY UPPER AREA COUNTRIES AROUND THE WORLD, AND WE ARE SYSTEMATICALLY SAYING SEEING HUNGER GO UP BY TENS OR HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF PEOPLE OVER THE NEXT SEVERAL YEARS.

WE KNOW THAT IS GOING TO LEAD TO CONFLICT AND INSTABILITY AS IT DID AFTER THE CRISIS OF FOOD FUEL AND FINANCIAL CRISIS OF 2008.

RIGHT IN THE BOOK ABOUT A BIG GLOBAL EFFORT, PRESIDENT OF ITEM ABOUT A MADE TO HAVE A BIG BET TO ADDRESS THAT WITH SECURITY CRISIS, AND SUCCEEDED BY MOVING ALMOST 100 MILLION PEOPLE OUT OF HUNGER AND POVERTY OVER A DECADE.

THOSE BIG EFFORTS CAN BE OFTEN BECAUSE OF WHAT YOU MENTIONED, WE JUST DON'T ASPIRE TO DO THE RIGHT THING WITH THE RIGHT LEVEL OF RESOURCES, AND THE RIGHT LEVEL OF COMMITMENT.

>> YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE BIG BETS YOU TALK ABOUT IS AN ASSISTANT YOU PROVIDED TO RICH LANDRIEU IN NEW ORLEANS.

IN HIS CHALLENGE OF THE TIME TO YOU WOULD BE TO HELP HIM BASICALLY A RID OF SOME OF THE CONFEDERATE MONUMENTS, MOVING THEM OUT OF THE CITY CENTER SO TO SPEAK.

YOU WRITE THAT A BIG BET CAN FEEL SMALL IN SCOPE AND STILL LEAD TO LARGE-SCALE CHANGE.

WHAT HAPPENED THERE?

>> WILL, ALL BIG BETS START WITH SMALL INITIAL STEPS.

AND MITCH IS AN EXPERT IN THEIR LEADER, YOU KNOW, AS MAYOR, HE GOT TO KNOW EVERY MEMBER OF HIS COMMUNITY AND WORKED WITH COMMUNITY MEMBERS OVER YEARS TO BUILD A REAL DIALOGUE ABOUT RACIAL UNDERSTANDING .

AND CAME TO UNDERSTAND THAT THESE FOUR CONFEDERATE STATUES , ONE OF WHICH WAS LITERALLY A MONUMENT TO A WHITE TERRORISTIC ATTACK ON THE INTEGRATED POLICE FORCE OF NEW ORLEANS IN THE POST RECONSTRUCTION ERA.

THAT THESE MONUMENTS WERE SEEN AS LIFTING UP AND ELEVATING RACIAL HATRED TO CERTAIN COMMUNITY'S IN NEW ORLEANS.

AND SO HE WORKED WITH EVERYBODY TO GET EVERYONE TO AGREE TO TAKE THEM DOWN.

AND HE GOT SOME RESOURCES, HE STARTED ON THAT PATH, AND THE CONTRACTOR WAS DOING THAT WORK, HAD THEIR CAR FIREBOMBED BY AN OUTSIDE , YOU KNOW, LIKE THE PROCESS GROUP.

AND ALL OF A SUDDEN, THE PROJECT LOOKED LIKE IT WOULD FAIL.

SO, MITCH ASKED ME FOR HELP, IT WAS I WAS EARLY ON THE JOB WITH THE ROCKEFELLER FOUNDATION, AT THE RISK TO INVEST IN MITCH'S BIG BET.

BECAUSE HE HAD HAD SO MUCH COMMUNITY ENGAGEMENT, AND HEADLINE STARS THE RIGHT WAY.

WE TOOK THE STATUES DOWN, YOU KNOW, WE DID NOT KNOW THIS , BUT THAT THEN LEAD TO A DIALOGUE ACROSS THE COUNTRY , AND WENT ON TO CHARLOTTESVILLE AND BEYOND AS MANY OF YOU VIEWERS WILL KNOW, AND CREATED AN EVEN MORE MOVEMENT AROUND THIS EFFORT.

YOU NEVER KNOW WHEN YOU'RE COMMUNITY ACTIVISM , WHICH I FEEL LIKE IT IS LINKED ONLY TO YOUR COMMUNITY WILL CHANGE THE WAY PEOPLE THINK AND IMAGINE THEIR FUTURES.

I MYSELF REMEMBER DRIVING BY SO MANY OF THESE MONUMENT, NOT TAKING ENOUGH ABOUT WHAT THEY REALLY MEAN, WHERE THEY COME FROM, WHERE WERE THEY REALLY BUILT, AND WHY.

AND I AM PROUD, MITCH, PART OF THE COMMUNITY HE PRESENTED FOR DOING THAT.

AND I'M PROUD OF MY OWN TEAM FOR TAKING SOME RISKS SUPPORTING THEM.

>> OTHER BIG BET THAT YOU ARE INSTILLING ENGAGED WITH AND OUTDO THE ROCKEFELLER FOUNDATION IS CLIMATE CHANGE.

HOW DO YOU EVEN FIGURE OUT KIND OF WHAT THAT SIMPLE QUESTION SHOULD BE?

HOW YOU ATTACK SUCH A MASSIVE PROBLEM WITH SO MANY DIFFERENT CAUSES TO SO MANY DIFFERENT EFFECTS LEAD ME THROUGH LIKE YOUR THINKING ABOUT IT.

>> SURE.

WE HAVE HAD FOR 10 YEARS OMISSION OF LIFTING UP HUMANITIES AND IN PARTICULAR VULNERABLE ENTITIES USING THAT IS A FOUNDING POSSIBLE THE AND WE LOOK AT CLIMATE CHANGE, WE SEE WE ARE BLOWING PAST ALL OF THE ECOSYSTEMS TIPPING POINTS WHETHER IT IS ICEMELT, OR EL NINO EFFECTS, OR HEAT IN PARTICULAR.

AND WE ARE DOING THAT IN A WAY THAT IS NOWHERE NEAR THE TRAJECTORY OF THE PARIS AGREEMENT OF 1 1/2 DEGREES WHICH CAME TO REPRESENT A TARGET THE WHOLE WORLD COULD ADOPT AND ABIDE BY, AND LIVE WITH.

AND SO, WE SAID WILL WHAT IS THE MOST EFFECTIVE THING WE CAN DO?

AND AS WE DID ANALYSIS WE FOUND THAT BY 2050 , 80, 81 COUNTRIES AROUND THE WORLD THAT ARE TODAY RELATIVELY LOWER INCOME WILL ACCOUNT FOR NEARLY ALL 75+ PERCENT OF CARBON EMISSIONS , AND EVEN AS WE ARE TAKING DOWN COAL AND MOVING TO RENEWABLE ENERGY IN THE IN EUROPE , AND CHINA IN DEVELOPING NATIONS AROUND THE WORLD, WE ARE ACTUALLY BUILDING MORE COAL EVERY YEAR, MORE DIESEL GENERATION EVERY YEAR.

AND IT IS BOTH A HUGE CONSTRAINT TO GROWTH, AND ECONOMIC JOB CREATION .

AND IT IS GOING TO BE THE ONE THING THAT KILLS OUR CHANCE OF ACHIEVING ANYTHING CLOSE TO 1 1/2 OR 2 DEGREES WARMING ON A GLOBAL BASIS.

SO WE GOT A BUNCH OF COMPANIES TOGETHER, WE GOT SCIENTIST TOGETHER, WE INVENTED SOME NEW TECHNOLOGY THAT CAN PROVIDE DISTRIBUTED RENEWABLE ELECTRIFICATION OF VERY POOR COMMUNITY, AND BUILT IN ALLIANCES OF UNLIKELY PARTNERS RAISED ABOUT 11 1/2 BILLION DOLLARS.

TODAY WE ARE ACTIVE IN ABOUT 22 COUNTRIES, REACHING LIVES OF PEOPLE WITH RENEWABLE ENERGY THAT WOULD OTHERWISE NOT HAVE HAD ACCESS TO POWER OUTSIDE OF SOME DIESEL GENERATORS.

AND IT IS CHANGING THEIR LIVES FOR THE BETTER, AND IT IS OFFSETTING AND DISPLACING COIL HEAVY FUEL OIL AND DIESEL, HOPEFULLY IN OUR FAMILY FOR THE FUTURE.

OUR BIG BET IS THAT WE CAN ACCELERATE THE MOMENTUM AND ACTUALLY BRING 1 BILLION PEOPLE POWER AND ENERGY THAT DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO ELECTRICITY AT ALL TODAY, AND IN THE FUTURE TECHNOLOGY.

>> YOU KNOW, AT THE END OF EACH OF THE CHAPTERS, YOU ESSENTIALLY HAVE A CHECKLIST OF THINGS THAT PEOPLE SHOULD DO IF THEY ARE TRYING TO MAKE BIG BETS.

AND YOU WRITE IN THE BOOK THAT THIS IS , YOU ARE OPTIMISTIC TO SAY THAT THIS IS FOR EVERYONE , THAT YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE A BILLIONAIRE TO START MAKING BIG BETS AND CHANGING THE WORLD.

BUT HAVING THAT ACCESS TO CAPITAL, HAVING THAT ACCESS TO INSTITUTIONS OF KNOWLEDGE, WHETHER IT IS HIGHER EDUCATION, OR THINK TANKS, ET CETERA, HOW DOES , YOU KNOW, THE AVERAGE PERSON THAT MIGHT BE PICKING THE BOOK ABOUT AN AIRPORT HAVE THE ABILITY WITHIN THEMSELVES TO MAKE THESE BIG BETS, TO CHANGE THE WORLD.

>> WELL, I THINK THE FIRST IS TRULY THE MIND-SET, YOU KNOW?

WE ARE BOMBARDED BY NEWS OUT THERE THAT IS TOUGH, THAT IS NEGATIVE, THAT TELLS US WE ARE FACING A CLIMATE EMERGENCY THAT HIGHLIGHTS CONFLICTS AND DISASTERS WITHOUT PUTTING AS THE TREMENDOUS PROGRESS THAT HAS BEEN MADE OVER YEARS THAT I WRITE ABOUT IN THE BOOK TO REALLY BRING DIGNITY TO PEOPLE WHO HAVE NOT HAD IT FOR DECADES.

AND SO THE FIRST STEP IS TO, I'M ASKING LEADERS TO PICK UP THE BOOK IN THE HOPES THAT THEY WILL BE MORE OPTIMISTIC , MORE AMBITIOUS ON BEHALF OF WHAT IS POSSIBLE, AND TO KIND OF CROWD OUT THE SOCIAL MEDIA AND THE NOISE THAT BREEDS A SORT OF CYNICISM IN US.

I THINK THE SECOND IS NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO, IF YOU'RE REALLY COMMITTED TO THESE TYPES OF EFFORTS, YOU CAN FIND A WAY TO PARTICIPATE, LIKE I HAVE WORKED WITH BIG COMPANIES, LIKE UNILEVER ON THIS DIVISION CAMPAIGNS , AND SLUMS IN URBAN COMMUNITY'S ALL AROUND THE WORLD.

I'VE SEEN EMPLOYEES FROM THOSE COMPANIES FIND A SENSE OF MEANING AND PURPOSE IN WHAT IS OTHERWISE A GREAT JOB, BUT A GREAT JOB WITH THE CONSUMER PRODUCT COMMITTEE.

AND I WAS IN THE KIND OF COME ALIVE BECAUSE THEY SAY HEY, I'M DOING MY JOB, MY JOB WITH SAVING LIVES.

AND I WANT MORE CEOS, MORE CORPORATE PARTNERS TO GET IN THE HABIT OF SEEING THE MEANING AND PURPOSE IN THEIR MISSION AND THEIR WORK, AND ALLOWING THEIR TEAMS TO DISSIPATE IN IT.

>> THE IS CALLED BIG BETS, HOW LARGE-SCALE CHANGE REALLY HAPPENS , AUTHOR AND PRESIDENT OF THE ROCKEFELLER FOUNDATION AFTER RAJU.

TAKE AS MUCH FOR JOINING US BEEN SYMMETRIC YOU SO MUCH, HARRY.

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