>>> HELLO, EVERYONE AND WELCOME TO AMANPOUR & COMPANY, HERE IS WHAT IS COMING UP.

>>> IS REALLY TROOPS HAVE CARRIED OUT LOCAL RATES IN GAZA.

THAT AFTER AN EVACUATION ORDER FOR MORE THAN 1 MILLION PEOPLE IN GAZA AS ISRAEL CONTINUES ITS RETALIATORY BOMBARDMENT AND WE HAVE A REPORT ON THE DEVASTATION IN GAZA AND I WILL TALK TO THE HEAD OF THAT NORWEGIAN REFUGEE COUNCIL WHOSE STAFF ARE ON THE GROUND IN GAZA RIGHT NOW.

THEN AFTER A WEEK OF PAIN IN ISRAEL HOW DOES A NATION EVEN BEGIN TO PROCESS THIS TRAUMA?

CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST EYELID JOINS ME.

ALSO AHEAD, THE DANGERS OF DYSFUNCTION IN AMERICAN POLITICS AS THE U.S. HOUSE REMAINS SPEAKER LIST.

IT THAT CONVERSATION ABOUT THAT WITH FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE HILLARY CLINTON.

>>> PLUS, TALKING ABOUT HOW TO ACHIEVE LASTING PEACE IN THE REGION.

>>> AMANPOUR & COMPANY IS MADE POSSIBLE BY CANDACE KING WE ARE.

THE FAMILY FOUNDATION OF LAYLA AND NIKKI STRAUSS.

JIM ATWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS, MARK J BLUSH AND OR, CHARLES ROSENBLUM.

COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES.

BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, ADDITIONAL SUPPORT PROVIDED BY THESE FUNDERS.

AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

>>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM EVERYONE.

I'M SITTING IN FOR CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR.

ISRAELI TROOPS HAVE BEEN CARRYING OUT LOCAL RATES INSIDE GAZA INVOLVING AND POULTRY AND ARMORED FORCES.

THIS NEWS COMES AFTER THE ISRAELI MILITARY WARNED PEOPLE IN NORTHERN GAZA TO MOVE SOUTH IMMEDIATELY.

UNITED NATIONS SAYING JUST 24 HOURS NOTICE WAS GIVEN TO EVACUATE.

LET'S BRING IN BECKY ANDERSON WHO IS FOLLOWING THESE DEVELOPMENTS FROM JERUSALEM.

SO WHAT MOREOVER LEARNING ABOUT WHAT APPEARED TO BE SMALLER RAIDS TARGETING TERRORISTS AND FINDING OUT MORE INFORMATION ABOUT WHERE THESE HOSTAGES MAY BE.

>> THAT IS ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.

AND I SPECIFIED NUMBER OF RAIDS.

CERTAINLY MORE THAN ONE AS WE UNDERSTAND IT.

WE HAVE JUST RECEIVED A STATEMENT FROM THE IDF.

LET ME READ THAT TO YOU.

IT'S THE BEST WAY TO DO THIS.

OVER THE PAST DAY, THIS STATEMENT SAYS, THEY IDF CONDUCTED RAIDS IN THE TERRITORY OF THE GAZA STRIP IN AN EFFORT TO ELIMINATE THE THREAT OF TERRORISTS AND WEAPONS IN THE AREA AND LOCATE HOSTAGES.

IDF SOLDIERS SEARCHED AND COLLECTED EVIDENCE THAT WOULD ASSIST IN THE EFFORT TO LOCATE HOSTAGES, IN ADDITION IDF SOLDIERS THWARTED TERROR CELLS AND INFRASTRUCTURE LOCATED IN THE AREA INCLUDING HAMAS ANTI- ROCKET CELL.

IN ADDITION, A HAMAS CELL THAT FIRED ANTITANK MISSILES TOWARD ISRAELI TERRITORY.

IT CONTINUED THAT THE IDF CONTINUES ITS STRIKE SON HAMAS TARGETS IN THE GAZA STRIP BOTH FROM THE AIR AND FROM ANTITANK, AND FROM THE SOUTHERN SIDE OF THE BORDER, TRYING TO TAKE OUT ANTITANK MISSILE LAUNCHES IMMEDIATELY AFTER HAMAS ATTACKED ISRAEL.

SO THAT IS HOW THINGS STAND AT THE MOMENT.

I WANT TO BRING UP SOME INFORMATION FROM THE U.S.

HOSTAGE COORDINATOR WHO IS NOW ON THE GROUND, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE ANTONY BLINKEN HAS BEEN IN REGION.

HE WAS HERE IN ISRAEL, MOVED ONTO JORDAN AND AROUND THE GULF .

WITH RESORT OF PRIORITIES.

ONE, THE HOSTAGES, TOO, THE HUMANITARIAN CORRIDORS AND THREE, HOW DOES THE U.S. AND OTHERS HELP TO TRY TO DE- ESCALATE WHAT IS GOING ON AT THE MOMENT BECAUSE IT IS OF REAL CONCERN THAT THIS THING CAN REALLY ESCALATE.

ACCORDING TO ISRAEL'S HOSTAGE COORDINATOR, ONE OF THOSE KEY PRIORITIES FOR ANTONY BLINKEN, HE SAID THAT THE TEAM IS INVESTIGATING EVERY PIECE OF INFORMATION TO HELP FIND THOSE WHO ARE FEARED CAPTIVE IN GAZA.

AND YOU REMEMBER, THE IDF HAS NOT ACTUALLY RELEASED NUMBERS ON HOW MANY ISRAELIS OR DUAL CITIZENS ARE ACTUALLY BEING HELD BY HAMAS AT PRESENT.

BUT THERE IS A CLEAR EFFORT NOW AND WE ARE SEEING THIS IN REAL TIME, IN THESE RATES AS THE IDF DESCRIBES THEM, GOING IN ON THE GROUND FROM THE OTHER SIDE OF THE BORDER, THE ISRAELI SIDE OF THE BORDER, GOING IN AND TRYING TO LOCATE INFORMATION AND EVIDENCE ABOUT WHERE THESE HOSTAGES MAY BE.

AND THIS IS ALL OF COURSE, AS YOU AND I HAVE BEEN DISCUSSING, BECAUSE THERE IS A CLEAR SORT OF THREAT NOW THAT THE ISRAELI FORCES ARE LIKELY TO START SOME SORT OF SIGNIFICANT ASSAULT, BOTH FROM THE GROUND AND THE AIR.

AND CLEARLY THEY ARE VERY CONCERNED WHETHER HOSTAGES ARE AND HOW THEY WILL BE AFFECTED BY WHAT HAPPENS NEXT.

>> THAT MAJOR LARGER SCALE ASSAULT IS REPORTEDLY JUST DAYS, IF NOT HOURS AWAY.

AND THAT INCURSION, OF COURSE WE WILL BE FOLLOWING CLOSELY.

BECKY, THANK YOU.

THE NEWS OF THESE RATES COMES AS ISRAEL'S ORDER CIVILIANS IN GAZA TO MOVE SOUTH.

WHILE THE UNITED NATIONS IS ASKING ISRAEL TO RECONSIDER THAT ORDER.

>> THE UNITED NATIONS CONSIDERS IT IMPOSSIBLE FOR SUCH A MOVEMENT TO TAKE PLACE WITHOUT DEVASTATING HUMANITARIAN CONSEQUENCES.

THE UNITED NATIONS STRONGLY APPEALS FOR ANY SUCH ORDER TO BE RESCINDED, AVOIDING WHAT COULD TRANSFORM WHAT IS ALREADY A TRAGIC SITUATION.

>> THIS IS ALSO BEING COLLIMATED BY HAMAS WHICH IS TELLING PALESTINIANS TO STAY WHERE THEY ARE.

THOUSANDS OF AIRSTRIKES HAVE DECIMATED GAZA OVER THE PAST SIX DAYS, KILLING SOME 1800 PEOPLE ACCORDING TO LOCAL HEALTH MINISTRY.

ISRAEL'S RETALIATION COMES AFTER THE BRUTAL ATTACK BY HAMAS ON SATURDAY WHICH KILLED MORE THAN 1300 PEOPLE.

MOST OF THEM CIVILIANS.

THE U.S. IS UNDERTAKING AND INTENDS SCHEDULED TO LIMIT THE BLOODSHED.

ANTONY BLINKEN MEETING WITH THE AUTHORITY PRESENT BEFORE CONTINUING ON A WHISTLE STOP TOUR OF THE REGION.

AND THE DEFENSE SECRETARY LLOYD AUSTIN IS IN ISRAEL REAFFIRMING U.S. SUPPORT ON A PRESS CONFERENCE EARLIER TODAY ALONGSIDE HIS ISRAELI COUNTERPART.

>> I AM HERE IN PERSON TO MAKE SOMETHING CRYSTAL CLEAR.

AMERICAN SUPPORT FOR ISRAEL IS IRONCLAD.

>> WHEN YOU SAID THAT YOU STAND WITH ISRAEL, YOU SHOWED UP.

YOU STAND HERE, WITH US.

MR. SECRETARY, YOU HAVE SHOWN US WHAT IT MEANS TO BE AN ALLY, TO BE A FRIEND AND TO BE A BROTHER.

>> WE SEE WHAT IS HAPPENING ON THE GROUND IN GAZA IN THIS REPORT FROM OUR CORRESPONDENT.

A WARNING, SOME OF THE IMAGES YOU ARE ABOUT TO SEE ARE GRAPHIC AND HEARTBREAKING.

THE STORIES AND IMAGES ARE GUTWRENCHING BUT IMPORTANT TO SAY.

A NOTE BEFORE THE WARNING TO ISRAEL AND GAZA.

>> GRIPPED BY GRIEF AND LOSS OF UNFATHOMABLE SCALE.

GAZA'S DEATH TOLL AND THE NUMBER OF CIVILIANS AND WOUNDED IS RISING WITH EACH AND EVERY AIRSTRIKE.

IN THE REFUGEE CAMP, MEN DIG WITH THEIR BARE HANDS, DESPERATE TO RESCUE LOVED ONES FROM BENEATH THE RUBBLE OF WHAT ONCE WAS THERE HOMES.

THEY BEGIN TO LIST THE NAMES OF CHILDREN KILLED IN THE LATEST STRIKE.

AMONG THEM, HIS NIECE, JUST A FEW MONTHS OLD.

NOW SHE IS ONE OF MORE THAN 440 CHILDREN THAT GAZA'S HEALTH MINISTRY HAS BEEN KILLED BY ISRAELI AIRSTRIKES SO FAR.

ISRAEL SAYS IT IS STRIKING HAMAS TARGETS BUT AUTHORITIES SAY MEDICAL FACILITIES, SCHOOLS, AND RESIDENTIAL AREAS HAVE BEEN IMPACTED.

OUR NEIGHBOR SAID THE ISRAELIS CALLED AND TOLD THEM TO EVACUATE THE AREA AROUND OUR HOME SO WE CAME TO STAY WITH RELATIVES HERE.

BUT THE NEXT MORNING, WHEN WE WOKE UP TO PRAY AT DAWN THE AIRSTRIKE HAPPENED AND THERE WAS NO WARNING.

THE DENSELY POPULATED GAZA STRIP, WHICH HAS BEEN UNDER ISRAELI LAND, SEA AND AIR BLOCKADE SINCE 2007 IS HOME TO MORE THAN 2 MILLION PEOPLE.

AROUND 47% OF THEM ARE CHILDREN.

MANY ARE NOW FORCED TO TAKE SHELTER IN YOU AND RUN SCHOOLS LIKE THIS ONE.

BUT CIVILIANS HERE ARE ALSO NOW FACING WHAT THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT HAS DESCRIBED AS A COMPLETE SIEGE ON GAZA.

>> >> Translator: THERE IS NO ORDER FOR US TO DRINK OR WASH OURSELVES WITH SO WE CAN PRAY.

THEY BOMBED OUR SCHOOLS AND MANY PEOPLE HAVE BEEN KILLED.

IT IS NOT FAIR FOR CHILDREN LIKE US.

WHY IS THIS HAPPENING TO US?

>> LIFE UNDER A BLOCKADE IS ALL THE CHILDREN OF GAZA HAVE EVER KNOWN.

FOR SOME LIKE 13-YEAR-OLD NADINE IT IS HARD TO IMAGINE A FUTURE BEYOND THIS RELENTLESS CONFLICT.

HE MADE THE LAST COUPLE OF NIGHTS HAVE BEEN THE WORST COUPLE OF NIGHTS I'VE EVER LIVED IN MY LIFE.

THIS IS NOT LIVING, THIS IS EXISTING.

WE ARE NOT PLANNING OUR FUTURES ANYMORE, WE ARE JUST TRYING TO SURVIVE.

>> BUT SURVIVAL IN GAZA IS BECOMING MORE AND MORE DIFFICULT BY THE DAY.

THE HUMANITARIAN SITUATION IS RAPIDLY DETERIORATING AND WHILE THE U.N. HAS CONDEMNED WHAT HAS BEEN DESCRIBED AS ISRAEL'S UNLAWFUL ARCADE ON GAZA AND THE INDISCRIMINATE NATURE OF ISRAEL'S AIRSTRIKES, THERE IS LITTLE HOPE THAT THE BLOODSHED WILL END HERE.

>> MORE THAN 420,000 PEOPLE IN GAZA HAVE BEEN MISPLACED AMID THE VIOLENCE.

AND A TRAGIC UPDATE, THE NUMBER OF CHILDREN KILLED IN GAZA HAS ARISEN ACCORDING TO THE PALESTINIAN HEALTH MINISTRY, TO OVER 580.

I'M BY THE SECRETARY GENERAL OF THE NORWEGIAN REFUGEE COUNCIL WHICH HAS MULTIPLE STAFF MEMBERS ON GROUND IN GAZA.

HE HAS SPENT A LONG TIME TRYING TO BUILD A PATH TO PEACE IN THIS REGION.

HARD TO EVEN IMAGINE HAVING THAT CONVERSATION RIGHT NOW.

THAT WAS A KEY FACILITATOR IN NEGOTIATIONS THAT LED TO THE PEACE ACCORDS IN 1993.

YOU HAVE SEEN IT ALL, IT IS ONE THING I KEEP HEARING FROM ALL OF OUR GUESTS IS THAT THEY HAVEN'T SEEN ANYTHING QUITE LIKE THIS IN THE SCALE OF WHICH ALL OF THIS IS HAPPENING.

FIRST AND FOREMOST LET ME ASK YOU ABOUT HOW YOUR TEAM IS DOING ON THE GROUND AREA ARE THEY ALL ACCOUNTED FOR?

>> THEY ARE ALL ACCOUNTED FOR.

THIS MORNING, WE HOPE AND PRAY THEY WILL ALSO BE SAFE TOMORROW MORNING.

BUT MANY ARE FLEEING FOR THEIR LIFE.

THESE EIGHT WORKERS THEY HAVE BEEN HELPING FELLOW GAZANS FOR DECADES AND NOW THEY ARE FLEEING FOR THEIR LIVES.

THE MAJORITY OF THEM LIVE IN GAZA CITY AND THE SURROUNDING IN THE NORTH.

WHAT ISRAEL HAS COME WITH IS AN IMPOSSIBLE AND ILLEGAL ORDER OF ENFORCED RELOCATION.

SO DON'T TALK ABOUT IT AS IF IT WAS A HUMANITARIAN EVACUATION.

IT WOULD IS DESCRIBED AS FORCIBLE TRANSFER.

IT IS A WAR CRIME ACCORDING TO INTERNATIONAL LAW.

ISRAEL HAS TO REVERSE THIS ORDER IN THE UNITED STATES, THE UNITED KINGDOM, GERMANY, EUROPEAN UNION, ALL COUNTRIES THAT HAVE INFLUENCED ON THIS, HAVE TO MAKE THEM REVERSE THIS IMPOSSIBLE AND ILLEGAL ORDER.

HE MEEKLY HEARD FROM SECRETARY BLINKEN EARLIER THIS MORNING WHEN HE STRESSED ONCE AGAIN THAT HE HAD BEEN SPEAKING WITH ISRAELI COUNTERPARTS ABOUT ESTABLISHING SOME SORT OF SAFE ZONES WITHIN GAZA HEARD CAN YOU DESCRIBE TO US, WITHIN GAZA ITSELF, ARE THERE SAFE ZONES IN THIS AREA RIGHT NOW GIVEN THERE IS THIS MASS EVACUATION.

OUR SAFE ZONES EVEN POSSIBLE?

>> SAFE ZONES ARE POSSIBLE.

I LOT OF SCHOOLS AND HOSPITALS INCLUDING OUR OWN OFFICE IN GAZA THAT WE ARE NOW ASKED TO HAVE A RELOCATION FROM HAVE BEEN DE-CONFLICTED AS WE SAY THAT WE HAVE GIVEN COORDINATES TO THE ISRAELIS.

THE SCHOOLS AND HOSPITALS, SO ON, CIVILIAN HOUSING ARE SACROSANCT IN INTERNATIONAL LAW.

WE ALL HAVE TO FIGHT TERROR AND TERRORISM THAT ISRAEL WAS STRUCK WITH SO HORRIBLY THIS WEEKEND.

BUT DON'T SMASH EVERYTHING AROUND 1 MILLION CHILDREN.

THIS WOULD BE TERRIBLE FOR ISRAEL'S LONG-TERM SECURITY.

IT WILL BE A GENERATION OF HATRED.

>> GIVEN YOUR HISTORY AND EXPERTISE IN THIS REGION AND IN THIS CONFLICT, WHEN ISRAEL IS A WARNING AND IS SENDING OUT MESSAGES FOR THOSE IN GAZA TO FLEE SOUTH AND HAMAS IS TELLING THEM TO REMAIN IN PLACE, ULTIMATELY, WHO IS RESPONSIBLE IN TERMS OF THE SAFETY OF PALESTINIANS?

YOU WOULD AGREE I WOULD IMAGINE THAT ISRAEL HAS A RIGHT TO DEFEND ITSELF AND OBVIOUSLY IT IS SET OUT ON A MISSION TO DESTROY HAMAS TERROR CELLS.

>> THE INTERNATIONAL LAW IS VERY CLEAR AND MANY COUNTRIES ARE ON THE TERRORIST ATTACK.

MANY COUNTRIES.

TO GO AFTER THE TERRORISTS, YOU TAKE THEM COMEDIC THEIR FUNDING COME YOU TAKE THEIR ARMS, YOU DESCRIBE TEAMS GOING IN TO RELEASE HOSTAGES, AND TAKE THE TERRORIST'S.

THAT IS WHAT OTHER COUNTRIES DO.

TO SMASH ENTIRE CIVILIAN CITIES IS DISPROPORTIONATE AND OF VIOLATION OF INTERNATIONAL LAW AND IT IS NOT IN THE INTEREST OF ISRAEL.

WE ALL WANT TO HAVE THE HOSTAGES RELEASED AND APPEAL ON THAT CONSTANTLY, AND WE KNOW HAMAS IS LISTENING.

LET'S ALL WORK TO SEE A CEASE- FIRE NOW, TOO MANY CHILDREN HAVE DIED.

>> CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR SPOKE WITH AN IDF SPOKESPERSON EARLIER THIS WEEK THAT HAS REITERATED EARLIER THAT HAMAS AND THESE TERRORISTS ARE USING CIVILIANS AS HUMAN SHIELDS.

WHAT SHOULD THE RESPONSE BE ON THAT MATTER?

>> I MEAN, IT IS ALSO A VIOLATION OF INTERNATIONAL LAW TO BLEND INTO THE POPULATION.

IF THEY ARE BEING USED AS HUMAN SHIELDS AND USE HOSTAGES AS HUMAN SHIELDS, IT IS MORE CRIMES.

BUT ONE CRIME DOES NOT JUSTIFY THE OTHER.

AND ISRAEL IS A STATE, IT HAS GOVERNANCE, IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE WORKING NOW WITH MORAL CLARITY AS SECRETARY BLINKEN AND NETANYAHU SAID THE OTHER DAY.

SO WE ASK YOU, AND WE WILL NOT DO IT OURSELVES.

SO I HOPE THERE WILL BE SOME SANITY AND INTERNATIONAL COMMUTE THAT WILL IMPRESS UPON THE PARTIES TO WORK WITH INTERNATIONAL STANDARDS AND INTERNATIONAL LAW.

>> THEY ARE WORKING WITH PARTIES IN THE REGION, NOT JUST BETWEEN PALESTINIANS AND ISRAELIS.

THERE ARE TALKS WITH EGYPT TO OPEN A HUMANITARIAN CORRIDOR.

EGYPT HAS REQUESTED THAT CALL BUT THIS IS A TEST MOVING SITUATION AND I APPRECIATE YOU JOINING US AND GIVING US THE LATEST AND WE HOPE YOUR TEAM REMAIN SAFE THERE ON THE GROUND.

THANK YOU.

>>> WHICH ARE NOW TO THE SCALE OF THE HAMAS ASSAULTS ON SATURDAY WHICH JUST ABOUT EVERYONE IN ISRAEL IS IMPACTED FROM.

TRAUMA ON A NATIONAL LEVEL AS ISRAELIS HAVE THEIR SENSE OF SECURITY REALLY SHAKEN AND THEIR TRUST IN THEIR OWN GOVERNMENT FRACTURED.

SOMEONE SEEING THE FIRST-HAND IMPACT OF THIS IS A CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST AND WRITER.

SHE WAS SUPPOSED TO BE HERE IN THE U.S. ON A BOOK TOUR FOR HER NEW NOVEL, THE WOLF HUNT, BUT IT WAS CANCELED BECAUSE OF THE WAR.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

LIKE ALL OTHER ISRAELIS WE HAVE TALKED TO, HISTORY WILL DEFINE THE DAYS BEFORE OCTOBER 7th, AND AFTER.

THE COUNTRY CHANGED, THE REGION CHANGED, YOU ARE A PROFESSIONAL WHO DEALS WITH TRAUMA AND HELPS YOUR PATIENCE COPE WITH THEIRS.

MY FIRST QUESTION TO YOU THOUGH AS AN ISRAELI IN A HUMAN BEING, HOW ARE YOU DOING RIGHT NOW?

>> NO, WE STOPPED ASKING EACH OTHER HOW ARE WE DOING IN THE MORNING AS WE ARRIVED FOR WORK BECAUSE THERE IS NO ANSWER WE CAN GIVE EXCEPT STARTING TO CRY.

SO NOW, WE ARE JUST SAYING HI, NO ONE IS ASKING HOW ARE YOU DOING.

>> HOW DO YOU PROCESS THE TRAUMA OF THE LAST FEW DAYS, WHAT ARE YOU TELLING YOUR PATIENCE, THERE IS A WAR GOING ON NOW.

SO IT IS HARD TO COME TO TERMS WITH ALL OF THE DEATH AND TRAGEDY WHAT WAS NOT EVEN A WEEK AGO.

AT THE SAME TIME, THE COUNTRY HAS MOBILIZED AND GONE OFF TO WAR.

HOW DO YOU BALANCE BOTH?

>> WE JUST GOT AN EMAIL FROM OUR SUPERVISOR AT THE MENTAL HEALTH HOSPITAL WHERE I WORK.

BECAUSE THEY EVEN SAY FORGET EVERYTHING YOU THOUGHT YOU KNEW AND LEARNED BECAUSE THIS IS DIFFERENT HEARD THIS IS ONGOING EVENT.

YOU CAN'T TELL A TRAUMA PATIENT, YOU ARE SAFE NOW.

THE FIRST THING YOU SAY, YOU ARE SAFE NOW, I'M HERE WITH YOU AND IT IS OVER.

THIS IS NOT OVER.

WE HAVE PARENTS HERE THAT HAVE LOST THEIR KIDS.

WE HAVE PARENTS THAT DON'T KNOW WHERE THEIR KIDS ARE.

WE HAVE BABIES AND TODDLERS AND THREE-YEAR-OLDS TAKEN TO GAZA AS HOSTAGES AND THEIR ONLY MEMBERS WHO SURVIVED THE MASSACRE ARE GOING CRAZY, FALLING APART BECAUSE THEY DON'T KNOW IF THEY ARE ALIVE OR NOT, I DON'T KNOW IF THEY ARE IN SOME TUNNEL IN GAZA.

WE CAN SAY TO PEOPLE THAT THEY ARE IN A SAFE BASE BECAUSE THE COUNTRY IS NOT SAFE.

WE CAN'T SAY IT IS OVER BECAUSE THIS IS JUST THE BEGINNING.

I FEEL LIKE WHAT WE DO AS PSYCHOLOGISTS, WE JUST TRY TO HELP PEOPLE GET TO THE END OF THE DAY SO THEY CAN KEEP ON HOPING AND FIGHTING TO GET THEIR KIDS AND RELATIVES BACK.

WE HAVE 200 PEOPLE TAKEN TO GAZA, KIDS TAKEN OUT OF THEIR BEDS, DRAGGED IT TO GAZA HEARD WE ARE JUST TRYING TO HELP THE PATIENT SURVIVE UNTIL THEY MEET THEM AGAIN, AND I HOPE THEY WILL.

>> I HOPE SO, TOO.

YOU WROTE A PIECE TO BE PUBLISHED THIS WEEKEND IN THE SUNDAY TIMES.

IT STARTS WITH ONE WOMAN, AND I WILL QUOTE FROM YOUR PIECE "SHE LEFT HER SIX MONTH BABY ELLIOTT HOME AND GAVE HERSELF PERMISSION TO SPEND ONE NIGHT OF FREEDOM IN DANCING AND SHE NEVER CAME HOME.

IF SHE IS ALIVE HER BODY IS STILL PRODUCING MILK FOR HER BABY.

SOMEWHERE OUT THERE IN THE GAZA STRIP.

IF SHE IS STILL ALIVE AS A MOTHER WHOSE BODY KEEPS MAKING MILK FOR A BABY IN ISRAEL."

TALK TO US ABOUT THIS.

>> WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT CELINE THIS IS THE WORST THING YOU CAN IMAGINE.

HAVING OF A B IN ISRAEL AND THE BODY DOESN'T KNOW SHE'S AWAY FROM THE BABY.

THEN YOU HAVE THE FATHER OF THE BABY, ASKING HOW CAN HE FEED HIS DAUGHTER.

AND I THINK THIS IS ALSO THE MOMENT WHERE YOU SEE THE BEAUTY OF ISRAELI CIVIL SOCIETY BECAUSE THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT IS WEAK BUT THE PEOPLE ARE SO POWERFUL.

YOU SEE WOMEN COMING TO THE HOUSE BRINGING THEIR OWN MILK TO FEED CELINE'S BABY.

YOU SEE PEOPLE OPENING THEIR HOUSES AND HOSTING INSIDE OF THEIR HOUSES, PEOPLE THAT THEY MEET, SURVIVORS OF THE MASSACRE COMING TO OUR HOUSES IN TEL AVIV.

EVERYONE IS TRYING TO HELP SOMEHOW.

WE HAVE A FAMILY HERE, TWO NEW BORN BABY TWINS.

SO YOU GET TEXT MESSAGES, I HAVE THE BABY TWINS BUT I DON'T HAVE CLOTHES FOR THEM BECAUSE I DON'T HAVE NEWBORN CLOTHES.

OTHER MOTHERS FROM THE NEIGHBORHOOD, AND BRING CLOTHES FROM THEIR OWN BABIES.

EVERYONE IS TRYING TO HELP BUT AS MENTAL HEALTH PROFESSIONALS WE KEEP ASKING OURSELVES, HOW MANY PATIENTS ARE GOING TO MEET?

IT IS NOT JUST THE SURVIVORS.

YOU KNOW THE ENTIRE CIVIL ISRAELI SOCIETY IS.

TO GET THE MOMENT.

>> IS THERE A RIGHT OR WRONG WAY TO COPE WITH TRAUMA LIKE THIS?

IN TERMS OF HOW YOU TALK TO YOUR CHILDREN, HOW YOU DIGEST ALL THE INFORMATION.

IS THERE A UNIVERSAL RIGHT OR WRONG THAT YOU CAN ADVISE FOR PATIENTS, FOR PEOPLE WATCHING THIS NOT JUST IN ISRAEL BUT AROUND THE WORLD, INCLUDING PALESTINIAN CHILDREN.

>> DEFINITELY.

I THINK THIS EVENT SHOWS YOU THE COSTS, THE PRICE OF THESE LIVE STREAMING EVENTS.

BECAUSE EVERYONE WERE A PART OF THE EVENT.

EVERYONE WERE A PART OF THE ATTACK.

PEOPLE IN TEL AVIV GOT TEXT MESSAGES FROM THEIR FRIENDS.

IT WAS ON LIFE, PEOPLE GOT TEXT MESSAGES SAYING, HELP US, THEY ARE BURNING US, THEY ARE SHOOTING US AND THEY ARE TAKING THE KIDS.

THE ENTIRE COUNTRY WAS EXPOSED.

BUT LATER YOU HAD ANOTHER WAVE OF EXPLOSION BECAUSE THE ISRAELI KIDS SAW THE VIDEOS AND THEY GOT IT THROUGH WHATSAPP AND INSTAGRAM AND TIKTOK, HAMAS WAS CRUEL ENOUGH TO PUBLISH AND PUT IT ON SOCIAL MEDIA SO PEOPLE COULD SEE THEIR LOVED ONES BEING TORTURED ON LIVE STREAMING.

I THINK, IF I CAN TELL YOU ONE THING THAT YOU NEVER DO WITH KIDS, YOU DON'T EXPOSE THEM TO THIS IF YOU HAVE A CHOICE.

THE THING IS THAT FOR SO MANY KIDS YOU DON'T HAVE A CHOICE BECAUSE THEY WERE A PART OF THAT.

I'M AFRAID TO SAY FOR SO MANY KIDS THIS IS NOT SOMETHING YOU CAN CHOOSE TO EXPOSE OR NOT EXPOSE THEM TO.

THIS IS THEIR REALITY.

>> JUST ANOTHER COMPONENT IN THIS TRAGEDY AND THE CESSPOOL THAT SOME OF THESE SITES HAVE TURNED INTO.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR WHAT YOU ARE DOING AND THANK YOU FOR YOUR WORDS.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>>> WAR IN THE MIDDLE EAST IS RAMPING UP IN THE URGENCY FOR THE U.S. TO ELECT A NEW SPEAKER, THE LEADERSHIP IN THE HOUSE IS STILL IN A STATE OF PARALYSIS AFTER STEVE SCALISE DROPPED OUT OF THE RACE.

ATTENTION IS TURNING TOWARD JIM JORDAN WHO LOST THE NOMINATION VOTE TO SCULLY'S EARLIER IN THE WEEK BUT HE'S ALSO LACKING UNIFIED REPUBLICAN BACKING SO FAR.

SO HOW DOES THIS AND, AND WHEN?

LAST WEEK CHRISTIANE SPOKE TO HILLARY CLINTON SHORTLY AFTER KEVIN McCARTHY'S HISTORICAL OUSTER.

AND THEY DISCUSSED WHAT THIS COULD MEAN FOR AMERICAN DEMOCRACY.

>> WELCOME BACK TO OUR PROGRAM.

HE WE ARE IN WASHINGTON, D.C. AMIDST ANOTHER MALFUNCTION.

THE WHOLE WORLD IS LOOKING AT WHAT IS HAPPENING IN THE HOUSE AND THE HISTORIC OUSTER OF THE SPEAKER.

AS AMERICAN DEMOCRACY IN TROUBLE?

>> YES, ABSOLUTELY IT IS IN TROUBLE.

IT WAS IN TROUBLE BEFORE THIS LATEST INCIDENT.

THIS JUST MAKES IT ABUNDANTLY CLEAR TO ANYONE PAYING ATTENTION, THAT WE HAVE ONE POLITICAL PARTY, THAT UNFORTUNATELY, IS IN ABSOLUTE HOSTAGE SITUATION WITH ITS MOST EXTREME MEMBERS.

AND KEVIN McCARTHY, HOPE, I HAVE NO RELATIONSHIP WITH OF ANY KIND, BUT WHEN HE ACTUALLY DID THE RIGHT THING FOR THE COUNTRY AND KEPT US FROM GOING INTO A GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWN, HE WAS PUNISHED.

HE WAS PUNISHED BECAUSE HE WORKED WITH DEMOCRATS, HE WORKED FOR THE GOOD OF THE COUNTRY AND HE WAS NOT CONTINUING TO BE CAPTIVE TO THE FAR RIGHT EXTREMISTS.

SO THEY TOPPLED HIM.

IT WAS A VERY SMALL NUMBER AS YOU LOOK AT THE VOTE.

BUT NOW WE ARE REAPING THE CONSEQUENCES OF THEIR MISBEHAVIOR.

>> IT SAID THAT THE MAIN CONTENDERS FOR HIS POSITION ARE JIM JORDAN WHO YOU KNEW VERY WELL.

>> I DON'T KNOW HIM WELL, I WATCHED HIM AND STARED AT HIM FOR 11 HOURS WHILE HE MADE STUFF UP ABOUT ME.

I DON'T KNOW HIM BUT I'VE SEEN HIM IN ACTION.

>> WHAT WILL IT MEAN IF HE GETS THE SPEAKERSHIP?

>> HE IS ONE OF THE PRINCIPAL RINGLEADERS OF THE CIRCUS THAT HAVE BEEN CREATED IN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY FOR THE LAST SEVERAL YEARS.

I HAVE NO INSIDE KNOWLEDGE ABOUT WHAT THE REPUBLICANS WILL DO OR WHO THEY WILL END UP VOTING FOR.

WHEN DO THEY PUT THE COUNTRY FIRST?

THEY DO NOT REPRESENT A MAJORITY OF EVEN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE EXTREMISTS IN THE HOUSE.

THEY CERTAINLY DON'T REPRESENT A MAJORITY OF THE COUNTRY.

SOMEBODY HAS TO STAND UP AND SAY COMING UP.

WE CAN HAVE DISAGREEMENTS, I'M ALL FOR THAT.

I WAS IN THE SENATE FOR EIGHT YEARS I WORKED WITH A LOT OF REPUBLICANS AND OPPOSED THEM WHEN I DIDN'T AGREE.

BUT AT SOME POINT THERE NEEDS TO BE A BACKLASH AGAINST THE CONTROL THAT THIS IS A GROUP OF EXTREMISTS HAVE AND I DON'T KNOW WHO WILL LEAD THAT, BUT LET'S HOPE THAT WHOEVER BECOMES THE NEW SPEAKER WILL.

>> FOR THOSE OUTSIDE THE COUNTRY WHO MAY NOT KNOW, IT IS NOT SO MUCH A FIGHT BETWEEN TWO DIFFERENT PARTIES, IT IS A WARFARE WITHIN ONE PARTY, THE GOP.

SO WHEN YOU LOOK AT HOW TO GO FORWARD FOR THE COUNTRY, AS YOU SAY, IS THERE ANY AREA OF COALITION BUILDING THAT COULD HAPPEN?

THERE ARE PRAGMATIC REPUBLICANS, AS YOU SAY.

COULD THERE BE A WHOLE NEW WAVE OF TRYING TO GET LEGISLATION GOING AND CROSS PARTY GOVERNANCE GOING BY DEMOCRATS AND CERTAIN REPUBLICANS FORMING A COALITION?

>> YOU SAW THE NUMBER OF REPUBLICANS WHO VOTED WITH A NUMBER OF DEMOCRATS TO KEEP THAT GOVERNMENT OPEN.

THERE IS CLEARLY A COMMON SENSE AND SANE PART OF THE REPUBLICAN CAUCUS IN THE HOUSE.

BUT I THINK THEY ARE INTIMIDATED , THEY OFTENTIMES SAY AND DO THINGS WHICH THEY KNOW BETTER THAN TO SAY OR DO.

AND IT WILL REQUIRE US DEFEATING THOSE MOST EXTREME MEASURES AND THE PEOPLE WHO PROMOTE THEM IN ORDER TO TRY TO GET TO SOME COMMON GROUND WHERE PEOPLE CAN, AGAIN, WORK TOGETHER.

THAT IS THE WAY IT USED TO BE.

WE HAD VERY STRONG PARTISANS IN BOTH PARTIES IN THE PAST AND WE HAD VERY BITTER BATTLES OVER ALL KINDS OF THINGS.

GUN CONTROL, CLIMATE CHANGE, THE ECONOMY AND TAXES.

BUT THERE WASN'T THIS LITTLE TALE OF EXTREMISM WAGGING THE DOG OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY AS IT IS TODAY.

AND SADLY, SO MANY OF THOSE EXTREMISTS, MEGA EXTREMISTS, TAKE THEIR MARCHING ORDERS FROM DONALD TRUMP, WHO HAS NO CREDIBILITY LEFT, BY ANY MEASURE.

HE IS ONLY IN IT FOR HIMSELF, NOT DEFENDING HIMSELF CIVIL ACTIONS AND CRIMINAL ACTIONS, AND WHEN DO THEY BREAK WITH HIM?

BECAUSE, AT SOME POINT, MAYBE THERE NEEDS TO BE A FORMAL DEPROGRAMMING OF THE CULT MEMBERS.

SOMETHING NEEDS TO HAPPEN.

>> HAD YOU DO THAT?

HOW DO YOU DEFEAT THEM, BY DEFEATING THEIR LEADER WHO IS DONALD TRUMP.

HOW DOES THIS CHANGE AT ALL?

>> AT THIS POINT I THINK SADLY HE WILL STILL BE THE NOMINEE AND WE HAVE TO DEFEAT HIM.

AND WE HAVE TO DEFEAT THOSE WHO ARE THE ELECTION DENIERS AS WE DID IN 2020 AND 2022.

AND WE HAVE TO, JUST BE SMARTER ABOUT HOW WE ARE TRYING TO EMPOWER THE RIGHT PEOPLE INSIDE THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.

NANCY PELOSI HAD A MAJORITY OF FIVE VOTES WHEN SHE WAS THE SPEAKER.

KEVIN McCARTHY HAD A MAJORITY OF FIVE VOTES.

NANCY PELOSI PAST CONSEQUENTIAL LEGISLATION AND SHE CLEARLY HAD MEMBERS WITHIN THE CAUCUS WHO RANGED ACROSS A SPECTRUM OF POLITICAL BELIEFS AND IDEOLOGY, AND SHE KEPT EVERYBODY TOGETHER .

SHE KEPT EVERYBODY FOCUSED ON THE FUTURE.

HE COULD NOT DO THAT.

SO HE PAID A PRICE, THE MORE PARTLY THE COUNTRY PAID A PRICE.

>> WHEN YOU SEE ANOTHER MATCHUP BETWEEN POTENTIAL HE TRUMP AND PRESIDENT BIDEN, GOES THROUGH YOUR MIND?

AND PARTICULARLY, HOW DO YOU PROCESS THAT THIS PERSON WHO DEFEATED YOU BACK IN 2016 IS STILL AT IT, GIVEN ALL THAT YOU SAID, CIVIL FRAUD, SEXUAL TRANSGRESSIONS ACCORDING TO THE COURTS.

HOW IS THIS STILL HAPPENING?

>> IT IS THE CLASSIC TALE OF AN AUTHORITARIAN POPULIST WHO REALLY HAS A GRIP ON THE EMOTIONAL, PSYCHOLOGICAL NEEDS AND DESIRES OF A PORTION OF THE POPULATION.

AND THE BASE OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY, FOR WHATEVER COMBINATION OF REASONS, AND IT IS EMOTIONAL AND PSYCHOLOGICAL, SEASON HIM SOMEONE WHO SPEAKS FOR THEM.

AND THEY ARE DETERMINED THAT THEY WILL CONTINUE TO VOTE FOR HIM, ATTEND HIS RALLIES, WHERE HIS MERCHANDISE, BECAUSE FOR WHATEVER REASON, HE AND HIS VERY NEGATIVE, NASTY FORM OF POLITICS, RESONATES WITH THEM.

AND THAT WAS REALLY ATTRACT TO A SIGNIFICANT PORTION OF THE REPUBLICAN BASE.

SO IT IS LIKE A CULT.

AND SOMEBODY HAS TO BREAK THAT MOMENTUM, AND THAT IS WHY I BELIEVE JOE BIDEN WILL DEFEAT HIM, AND HOPEFULLY THEN THAT WILL BE THE END AND THE FEVER WILL BREAK AND THEN REPUBLICANS CAN TRY TO GET BACK TO, YOU KNOW, FIGHTING ABOUT ISSUES AMONG THEMSELVES AND ELECTING PEOPLE WHO ARE AT LEAST RESPONSIBLE AND ACCOUNTABLE.

>> ARE YOU CONCERNED THAT A THIRD-PARTY CANDIDATE ON THE DEMOCRATIC SIDE COULD THWART JOE BIDEN'S CHANCES?

>> I AM ALWAYS CONCERNED ABOUT A THIRD-PARTY, THAT IS WHAT HAPPENED TO ME AS WE ALL CAN RECALL.

AND HELPED BY A LOT OF OTHER FORCES.

IN THAT CAN HAPPEN AGAIN THIS TIME.

SO, OF COURSE I WORRY ABOUT ANYONE WHO MIGHT TAKE VOTES AWAY FROM PRESIDENT BIDEN.

I'M IN A CAMP, CHRISTIANE, WHO SAYS, WHAT YOU ACTUALLY HIRE A POLITICIAN, WITH WHAT IS IT THAT YOU WANT?

WHAT I WANT IS SOMEONE WHO CAN GET THE JOB DONE.

BIDEN HAS DONE AN AMAZING JOB BY ANY MEASURE.

PEOPLE TALKED ABOUT INFRASTRUCTURE FOREVER, HE PASSED THE BILL.

PEOPLE TALKED ABOUT LOSING ADVANCED MANUFACTURING TO CHINA, HE PASSED THE BILL.

PEOPLE HAVE TALKED ABOUT IT IN CLEAN ENERGY TO PRODUCE MORE AND MORE JOBS, HE PASSED THE BILL.

NEGOTIATING FOR DRUG PRICES, ALL OF THESE THINGS WHICH MANY OF US HAVE TRIED TO GET DONE IN THE SENATE AND BEYOND, HE HAS GOTTEN DONE.

AND IT WILL CHANGE AMERICANS LIVES FOR THE BETTER AND IT WILL ENHANCE AND GROW OUR ECONOMY.

WHEN PEOPLE SAY, WELL, I DON'T KNOW.

PAY ATTENTION PLEASE TO WHAT HE HAS GOTTEN ACCOMPLISHED.

BUT IF YOU DON'T WANT TO BE FIRM ON THE MERITS LIKE I AM, BE FOR HIM BECAUSE THEY CAN HELP THAT DEMOCRACY.

>> AS YOU SAY, THE REPUBLICANS WHO OUSTED THE SPEAKER, HAVE DONE SO, ALSO LOUDLY DECRYING AMERICA SUPPORT FOR UKRAINE AND SAYING NO, NO, WE CARE ABOUT AMERICA FIRST, NOT ABOUT UKRAINE.

NOT IN OUR BEST INTEREST.

DO YOU THINK I WILL CONTINUE?

PRESIDENT BIDEN IS PLANNING A MAJOR SPEECH TO SHORE UP WHAT HIS ADMINISTRATION IS DOING FOR THE DEFENSE AND DEMOCRACY OF UKRAINE.

WHAT IS YOUR FEELING ABOUT THIS AND YOUR ADVICE?

>> I BELIEVE THE MAJORITY OF THE CONGRESS OF BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE STILL SUPPORT GIVING AID TO UKRAINE AND HELPING UKRAINE DEFEND ITSELF.

UNDERSTAND THAT UKRAINE'S FIGHT IS OUR FIGHT AND UNDERSTAND THAT A DEMOCRACY STRUGGLING AGAINST AND AUTOCRACY THAT IS CONDUCTING A BARBARIC INVASION AND COMMITTING CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY AND GENOCIDE HAS TO BE DEFEATED.

SO I THINK A MAJORITY OF THE CONGRESS, JUST LIKE A MAJORITY OF THE PUBLIC IS IN FAVOR OF HELPING UKRAINE.

THE CHALLENGE WILL BE, IF WHOEVER IS ELECTED SPEAKER, SOMEHOW CONTROLS THE FLOOR SO YOU CAN'T GET A VOTE.

SO WE HAVE A MAJORITY, JUST LIKE WE HAD A MAJORITY TO KEEP THE GOVERNMENT OPEN UNTIL, YOU KNOW, McCARTHY ALLOW THERE TO BE A VOTE WITH DEMOCRATS AND A BIG NUMBER OF REPUBLICANS.

SO THERE WILL HAVE TO BE AN ENORMOUS AMOUNT OF PRESSURE AND MANEUVERING TO GET THAT VOTE BECAUSE THE SENATE WILL VOTE TO CONTINUE TO FIND UKRAINE.

THE PENTAGON WILL BE ASKING TO CONTINUE TO FIND UKRAINE.

THEY UNDERSTAND THE STAKES.

SO THE STRUGGLE WILL BE IN THE HOUSE AND WE WILL ALL HAVE TO DO EVERYTHING WE CAN TO FORCE A VOTE.

IF WE CAN GET A VOTE ON THE FLOOR UKRAINE WILL GET THE AID.

>> WHAT WOULD YOU SAY IF YOU WERE IN THIS POSITION TRYING TO CONVINCE THE AMERICAN PEOPLE THAT THE DEFENSE OF UKRAINE IS THE DEFENSE OF THE UNITED STATES.

>> JUST LIKE IN YEARS PAST, WHEN SOMEONE IS IN UNDER ATTACK BY AUTHORITARIAN REGIME, A DICTATOR, YOU HAVE TO PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT THAT DICTATOR'S TRUE INTENTION IS.

PULLING INVADED GEORGIA AND INVADED UKRAINE THE FIRST TIME IN 2014.

HE WAS NOT STOPPED.

AND WHY IS IT THAT ALL OF OUR ALLIES IN EUROPE BORDER RUSSIA, WHO HAVE FIRSTHAND EXPERIENCE WITH PUTIN, ARE BEGGING THAT WE SUPPORT UKRAINE?

BECAUSE THEY KNOW THAT IF PUTIN GETS HIS WAY IN UKRAINE, HE WILL NOT STOP THERE.

AND THE UKRAINIAN PEOPLE HAVE DEMONSTRATED THAT THEY ARE WILLING TO DEFEND THEMSELVES, THEY JUST NEED THE HELP.

IT WAS SIMILAR IF YOU GO WAY BACK TO WHAT FDR FACED WHEN AMERICA FIRST HEARD THE SAME CLAIM THAT WE HEAR FROM EXTREMISTS, SAYING WE DON'T NEED TO HELP THE BRITISH, THE GERMANS ARE BOMBING THEM, THERE IS THE BLITZ, THEY ARE INVADING POLAND, THAT IS NOT OUR FIGHT.

WELL, YES IT WAS OUR FIGHT.

AND THE FACT THAT FDR MANEUVERED THROUGH THE AMERICA FIRSTERS AND FIGURED OUT HOW TO KEEP PROVIDING A TO GREAT BRITAIN IS EXACTLY WHAT WE NEED TO DO NOW.

ALMOST REGARDLESS OF WHO ENDS UP BEING THE SPEAKER WHAT RHETORIC THEY USE ABOUT UKRAINE, I WOULD URGE PRESIDENT BIDEN TO USE EVERY TOOL AT HIS DISPOSAL TO KEEP FUNDING UKRAINE.

I HOPE THERE IS A VOTE IN THE HOUSE AND I KNOW IT WILL TURN OUT THE RIGHT WAY.

EVEN IF THEY DRAG THEIR FEET AND PLAY TO THE WORST IMPULSES AND FIND COMMON CAUSE WITH THOSE AMERICAN FIRSTERS THAT FRANKLY SUPPORTED HITLER, SHAME ON THEM, WE STILL NEED TO REGRET HOW TO FUND UKRAINE.

>> PART TWO OF CHRISTIANE'S INTERVIEW WILL BE AIRING SOON.

STOMACH IT HAS BEEN 30 YEARS SINCE PRESIDENT CLINTON PRESIDED OVER ONE OF THE MOST HISTORIC CHECKS IN HISTORY.

IT ALSO RAISED HOPES FOR PEACE IN THE MIDDLE EAST BUT WERE SADLY ONCE AGAIN IS RIPPING THE REGIONAL PARK.

AMBASSADOR DENNIS ROSS MADE A KEY ROLE IN NEGOTIATING THE AGREEMENTS AND JOINTS TO REFLECT ON WHY THE PROMISE OF PALESTINIAN PEACE REMAINS UNFULFILLED AND WHAT MUST BE DONE TO REIMAGINE A BETTER FUTURE FOR THE REGION.

>> AMBASSADOR, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR SPEAKING WITH US.

>> MY PLEASURE.

GOOD TO BE WITH YOU.

>> ESPECIALLY AT THIS VERY DIFFICULT MOMENT.

THANK YOU FOR SHARING THESE INSIGHTS WITH US.

I WANTED TO START BY SAYING THAT, YOU HAVE DEVOTED YOUR CAREER TO SHAKING INVOLVEMENT IN THE MIDDLE EAST PEACE PROGRESS.

YOU'VE SERVED UNDER RONALD REAGAN, GEORGE W. BUSH, BILL CLINTON AND BARACK OBAMA.

AND I JUST WANTED TO ASK, WHAT YOU'RE SORT OF FIRST REACTION WAS TO THE EVENTS OF LAST WEEK.

>> SHEER HORROR.

I'VE WORKED ON THIS ISSUE FOR SO LONG AND I'VE SEEN TERRIBLE THINGS BEFORE.

I WAS VERY CLOSE TO THE SITES OF SUICIDE BOMBINGS.

I'VE SEEN EVERYTHING AND I'VE SEEN NOTHING LIKE THIS.

BECAUSE THIS WAS JUST A DELIBERATE DECISION TO KILL AS MANY PEOPLE AS YOU COULD, TO DRAW NO DISTINCTION IN TERMS OF AGE, TO TAKE GRANDMOTHERS BACK TO GAZA.

YOU KNOW, IT'S INTERESTING, THE AREA NEXT TO GAZA IS MADE UP OF COMMUNITIES, SOME OF WHICH ARE PEOPLE BY, THOSE ISRAELIS THAT ARE VERY MUCH ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE POLITICAL SPECTRUM.

AND SOME OF THE PEOPLE THAT ARE SEEN ARE ON THE LEFT SIDE OF THE SPECTRUM.

THESE ARE PEOPLE THAT DEEPLY BELIEVE IN MAKING PEACE WITH THE PALESTINIANS.

EVEN BEING PREPARED TO MAKE CONCESSIONS WITH THE PALESTINIANS.

HAMAS CAME IN THERE AND THERE WAS NO SANCTION.

THEY ASK NO QUESTIONS, THEY JUST WANTED TO KILL ISRAELIS.

AND I HAVE TO SAY, PUBLICLY SPEAKING, THEY JUST WANTED TO KILL JEWS.

>> I JUST WANTED TO ASK, FOR PEOPLE WHO DON'T REMEMBER , PERHAPS WERE TOO YOUNG TO REMEMBER, IF YOU COULD JUST REMIND US OF WHAT WAS SO SIGNIFICANT ABOUT THAT AGREEMENT.

>> I'M GLAD YOU ASKED THAT.

THIS HAS ALWAYS BEEN AN EXISTENTIAL CONFLICT.

WHAT I MEAN BY THAT IS YOU HAVE TWO NATIONAL MOVE VINCE, TWO NATIONAL IDENTITIES COMPETING FOR THE SAME SPACE.

THE SIGNIFICANCE OF OSLO WAS AFTER AN ERA OF MUTUAL DENIAL, YOU HAD THE APPEAL OF THE NATIONAL LIBERATION OF THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE AND YOU HAD THE ISRAELIS WHERE ZIONISM IS THE NATIONAL LIBERATION MOVEMENT OF THE JEWISH PEOPLE.

THE ISRAELIS AND PALESTINIANS AFTER AN ERA OF MUTUAL DENIAL, CROSSING THAT PSYCHOLOGICAL THRESHOLD AND RECOGNIZING EACH OTHER.

IT MEANT THEY WERE TAKING AN EXISTENTIAL CONFLICT AND TURNING IT INTO A POLITICAL ONE.

EXISTENTIAL AND RELIGIOUS CONFLICTS YOU CAN'T RESOLVE.

NATIONAL CONFLICTS AND POLITICAL CONFLICTS YOU CAN RESELL.

SO THE HOPE OF OSLO WAS THAT YOU WERE TRANSFORMING A CONFLICT THAT COULD NEVER BE RESOLVED INTO ONE THAT NOW WAS ONE WE COULD SELL.

>> AND PART OF THE REASON THIS IS IMPORTANT, AS YOU JUST SAID, THESE ARE TWO DIFFERENT NATIONAL MOVEMENTS, RECOGNIZING EACH OTHER'S EXISTENCE AND COMMITTING TO A POLITICAL PROCESS TO SORT IT OUT.

HAMAS, THEY HAVE NEVER ACCEPTED THE EXISTENCE OF THE STATE OF ISRAEL YOU HAVE THOUGHT ABOUT WHY THAT IS?

>> THEY HAVE AN IDEOLOGY.

HAMAS IS AN ACRONYM FOR THE ISLAMIC RESISTANCE MOVEMENT.

AND THERE IDEOLOGY WAS ALL THAT PALESTINE WAS PART OF AN ISLAMIC TRUST.

AND AS PART OF AN ISLAMIC TRUST, NOT ONE INCH COULD BE SURRENDERED.

IN THAT WAS AN IDEOLOGY CREDO THEY HAVE LIVED WITH.

PEOPLE TEND TO FORGET, EVERY TIME WE WERE MAKING PROGRESS IN THE 1990S, EVERY TIME, WE WERE MAKING PROGRESS, WE WOULD GET SUICIDE BOMBINGS FROM HAMAS.

WHEN I HEAR PEOPLE SAY TODAY HAMAS WOULD NOT HAVE DONE THIS IF THERE WAS A PEACE PROCESS.

ON THE CONTRARY.

WHEN THERE WAS THEY DID EVERYTHING THEY COULD TO KILL IT.

EVEN NOW, CLEARLY ONE OF THE MOTIVATIONS WAS THE PROSPECT THAT SAUDI ARABIA, THE CUSTODIAN OF THE TWO HOLY MOSQUES, MOST IMPORTANT HOLY MUSLIM LEADER, WAS PREPARED, IT APPEARED, AND THE PROCESS OF PREPARING TO MAKE PEACE WITH THE JEWISH PEOPLE HURT SO YOU WOULD BE REMOVING OR DIMINISHING THE RELIGIOUS ELEMENT OF THIS CONFLICT.

FOR HAMAS, THAT WAS A FUNDAMENTAL THREAT.

>> SO LET'S WHEEL AROUND TO THE OTHER REASON WE CALLED YOU.

YOU JUST PUBLISHED A NEW ESSAY IN FOREIGN AFFAIRS.

I WOULD SAY IT IS A FAIRLY TOUGH-MINDED STATEMENT FOR SOMEONE LIKE YOURSELF, ESPECIALLY FOR SOMEONE LIKE YOURSELF HAS BEEN SO INVESTED AND INVOLVED IN THE PEACE PROCESS.

IN THIS YOU SAY, THE ONLY WAY TO ACHIEVE LASTING PEACE FOR ISRAELIS AND PALESTINIANS IS A COMPLETE DISMANTLING OF HAMAS.

DECAPITATING HAMAS'S LEADERSHIP, DESTROYING THE MILITARY INFRASTRUCTURE, KILLING A LARGE NUMBER OF ITS FIGHTERS AND OCCUPYING GAZA AGAIN ARE VERY REAL OBJECTIVES.

WHY ARE YOU SO CONVINCED OF THAT AT THIS POINT?

>> I WAS SORT OF LAYING OUT WHAT WERE ISRAELI OBJECTIVES NOW.

I WASN'T SAYING THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT I THINK THEY SHOULD DO, THIS IS WHERE THEY ARE COMING FROM.

THIS IS A PARADIGM OF INNOCENCE LIVING IN COEXISTING WITH HAMAS IN 2009.

THEY CAME TO REALIZE THAT WAS NOT A MANAGEABLE CAUSE.

HAVING SAID THAT, WHAT I WAS SAYING, IT IS CLEAR THAT HAMAS CANNOT CONTINUE TO BE A THREAT TOWARD ISRAEL.

NUMBER ONE.

THERE IS ALSO CLEAR TO BE NO POSSIBILITY OF CREATING RECONSTRUCTION OF GAZA WHERE HAMAS IS IN A POSITION WHERE THEY CAN COME AT A TIME OF THEIR CHOOSING BLOW EVERYTHING UP AGAIN.

SO I TAKE THE VIEW THAT THEY HAVE COMPLETELY LEGITIMIZED THEMSELVES AND WHAT THEY HAVE DONE.

THEY ARE NOT A PARTNER IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM.

AND I'D LIKE TO SEE AN OUTCOME, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THE MILITARIZATION OF GAZA IN RETURN OF MASSIVE RECONSTRUCTION OF GAZA.

I DON'T SEE HAMAS BEING IN A POSITION WHERE THEY WILL EVER GO ALONG WITH ANYTHING LIKE THAT.

AT A MINIMUM, HAMAS HAS TO BE PUT IN A POSITION WHERE IT'S FUNDAMENTAL POWER HAS BEEN DRAMATICALLY ERODED.

THE IDEA THAT YOU CAN ERADICATE SOMETHING LIKE HAMAS IS SOMETHING THAT IS BEYOND ANYBODY'S CAPABILITY.

BUT YOU CAN DRAMATICALLY WEAKEN IT TO THE POINT WHERE IT DOESN'T HAVE THE CAPABILITY TO DISRUPT EVERYTHING ELSE.

AT A MINIMUM THAT HAS TO BE THE OUTCOME.

>> THIS IS A SITUATION WHERE THE COST TO ISRAEL AND THE PEOPLE OF GAZA IS GOING TO BE VERY HIGH.

YOU SAID HAMAS IS COMPLETELY DELEGITIMIZED.

WE HAVE NO IDEA OF KNOWING HOW MUCH LEGITIMACY HAMAS HAS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GAZA.

WE ALSO KNOW THAT THE POPULATION OF GAZA IS VERY YOUNG.

THE AVERAGE GAZAN IS 18 YEARS OLD.

50% OF THE POPULATION ARE CHILDREN.

THEY HAVE NO VOICE IN THIS.

AND THEY HAVE A HISTORY OF EMBEDDING THEMSELVES IN THE CIVILIAN POPULATION.

SO GIVEN THAT, HOW COULD THIS BE ACCOMPLISHED WITHOUT A MASSIVE LOSS OF LIFE AMONG PEOPLE WHO ARE PERHAPS, FAIR TO SAY, THEMSELVES, HOSTAGES IN THIS LAND.

>> YOU ARE SO RIGHT.

IT WON'T SURPRISE YOU, I HAVE FRIENDS IN GAZA RIGHT NOW.

I'VE SPOKEN TO SOME OF THEM IN THE LAST COUPLE OF DAYS.

MY HEART IS LITERALLY BREAKING OVER WHAT I SEE HAPPENING.

AND YET, I ALSO KNOW THAT THEY ARE BEING HELD HOSTAGE BY HAMAS HEARD ONE OF THE PERSONS I WAS ABLE TO SPEAK TO WAS DESCRIBING HOW SHE HAS ALREADY LOST MEMBERS OF HER FAMILY.

SHE SAID WE ARE THE ONES VULNERABLE AND YES ISRAELIS HAVE BASICALLY DIRECTED US TO SEVEN AREAS IN GAZA BUT I HAVE 90-YEAR-OLD PARENTS THAT ARE NOT MOVABLE.

WE ARE EXPOSED, ALL HAMAS LEADERS ARE DEEP UNDERGROUND.

THIS IS A TERRIBLE AND DIRE SITUATION.

AND YET, WE FACE A REALITY WHERE WHATEVER WE SAY, THE ISRAELIS ARE NO LONGER GOING TO LIVE WITH THIS THREAT.

THIS IS LEFT TO RIGHT.

COMPLETELY, COMPLETE CONSENSUS.

SO, THIS IS A TERRIBLE REALITY BUT IN A SENSE WHAT IS REAL IS NOW FACING IS ISIS.

WHEN WE FOUGHT ISIS, THERE WERE A LOT OF INNOCENT PEOPLE WHO WERE KILLED.

YOU ARE DEALING WITH A THREAT THAT ACTUALLY WANTS TO INVITE THE KILLING OF INNOCENCE.

AND IT FORCES YOU INTO THESE TERRIBLE AND EXCRUCIATING DILEMMAS, WHERE, IF YOU DON'T TAKE THESE STEPS COMING UP TO CONTINUE TO LIVE WITH THIS GROUP THAT WILL CONTINUE TO CARRY OUT OUTRAGEOUS.

AND AT SOME POINT YOU HAVE TO TRY TO FIND A WAY TO DEAL WITH IT.

WHAT I WAS LAYING IN TERMS OF THE OBJECTIVES, I SENT THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY SHOULD EMPHASIZE THE UNCONDITIONAL RELEASE OF ALL HOSTAGES AND EMPHASIZE THE DEMILITARIZATION AND OFFER RECONSTRUCTION.

I'M HOPING THAT UNDER SOME CIRCUMSTANCES YOU MIGHT BE ABLE TO BRING THIS TO AN END SO THAT THE SUPREME PRICE THAT WE COULD BE SEEING PAID, IN FACT, DOES NOT MATERIALIZE.

YOU ARE QUITE RIGHT, THE PRICE THAT THEY WILL PAY IS TERRIBLE.

THE PRICE THE IDF WILL PAY IS ALSO AWFUL.

IT IS AN AWFUL SITUATION BUT WE ALSO KNOW WHO IS RESPONSIBLE FOR IT.

HAMAS IS RESPONSIBLE FOR IT.

>> ARE YOU CONVINCED THAT THE WORLD WILL SEE IT THAT WAY?

THE FACT IS THAT THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE AROUND THE WORLD WHO LOOK AT THIS, YOU CAN JUST SEE THE DESTRUCTION, KIND OF, WHOLE NEIGHBORHOODS WIPED OUT.

AND YOU TALKED ABOUT THESE SAFE CORRIDORS THAT ISRAELIS ARE DIRECTING PEOPLE TO BUT A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE SAYING, HOW CAN I GET THERE?

HOW DO THEY MAINTAIN THEIR AUTHORITY AND USE THIS LEVEL OF OVERWHELMING FORCE?

V. I THINK IT IS HARD.

I SAID IT'S AN EXCRUCIATING DILEMMA.

HERE ARE THE THINGS I'D LIKE TO SEE HAPPEN.

I'D LIKE TO SEE THE ISRAELIS EMPHASIZE THAT AGAIN THERE ARE SAFE AREAS AND I'D LIKE TO SEE ISRAELIS FACILITATE HUMANITARIAN ASSISTANCE GOING INTO THOSE AREAS.

I WANT ISRAEL TO BE ABLE TO PUT THEMSELVES IN A POSITION WHERE THEY SAY THEY ARE FIGHTING HAMAS, NOT WISHING PALESTINIANS.

THIS IS THE WAY THEY HAVE TO PRESENTED AND I THINK IT'S THE WAY SHOULD WE BE TALKING ABOUT IT.

WE HAVE TO FRAME THIS ISSUE FOR WHAT IT IS.

YOU HAVE TO TAKE ON THIS GROUP THAT HAS VISITED THESE UNSPEAKABLE ATROCITIES ON ONE HAND AND WILL CONTINUE TO DO IT.

ON THE OTHER HAND YOU HAVE TO TRY TO DO IT ANYWAY THAT TRIES TO DO AS MUCH AS YOU CAN TO SAFEGUARD THE LIVES OF PALESTINIANS WHO ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR WHAT HAMAS DOES.

HE MAKES YOU THINK THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT IS ACTUALLY MAKING, OR ISRAELI LEADERSHIP IS ACTUALLY MAKING THAT DISTINCTION AT THE MOMENT?

>> I THINK THAT THEY ARE IN A SITUATION WHERE IT'S REALLY HARD TO MAKE THESE KINDS OF DISTINCTIONS BUT I THINK SOME EFFORT IS BEING MADE.

THE MORE WE TALK ABOUT IT THERE WILL PROBABLY BE MORE GREATER EFFORT.

IT IS IN ISRAEL'S INTEREST TO SHOW FIGHTING HAMAS IS ONE THING AND DEALING WITH PALESTINIAN PEOPLE IS SOMETHING DIFFERENT.

>> WHAT ABOUT THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION?

DO YOU THINK ABIDED MINISTRATION IS DOING ENOUGH TO CONVEY THE MESSAGE THAT YOU HAVE JUST DELIVERED?

>> I THINK THE PRESIDENT, WHEN HE SPELLED EVERYTHING OUT, HE SAID DO IT WITHIN THE CONFINES OF INTERNATIONAL LAW.

IT IS TRUE THAT HUMANITARIAN LAW, AS IT RELATES TO USE OF FORCE, FORCE THAT IS DESIGNED TO ACHIEVE A VERY CLEAR MILITARY OBJECTIVE, WILL, IN THE END, UNFORTUNATELY ALSO AND UP PRODUCING WHAT WILL BE CIVILIAN CASUALTIES.

BECAUSE THAT IS THE NATURE OF WAR.

BUT I THINK THE ADMINISTRATION IS TRYING TO STRIKE THE BALANCE.

AND IT IS A HARD BALANCE TO STRIKE.

ANYONE WHO THINKS THERE IS A SIMPLE ANSWER HERE IS IGNORING IT.

FOR THOSE WHO SAY ISRAEL HAS TO STOP, THEN YOU JUST GUARANTEE THAT YOU WILL SEE MORE OF WHAT HAMAS DOES.

HAMAS DELIBERATELY TARGET CIVILIANS.

ISRAELIS DO NOT.

THERE IS A IMPORTANT DISTINCTION.

WE NEED TO HAVE AN OUTLET WHERE HAMAS IS UNABLE TO DO THAT.

>> LET'S WHEEL IT AROUND AND SAY, FOR THE SAKE OF DISCUSSION, THAT, THROUGH WHATEVER MEANS THAT FIGHTING IS CONTAINED, THAT HAMAS IS DISMANTLED, EVEN AT A GRIEVOUS COST.

AND I KNOW WE ARE USING THIS VERY ANTISEPTIC LANGUAGE, BUT I AM MINDFUL AS I SEE THAT YOU ARE YOU TELL ME THAT YOU ARE.

FOR EVERY PERSON WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THERE IS A MOTHER WHO IS SEEING THEIR CHILD LYING DEAD.

SOME INNOCENT PERSON WHO HAD NO OPPORTUNITY TO INTERVENE AND THIS WILL PAY A VERY DEAR PRICE.

SO LET'S ESTABLISH THAT WE KNOW THIS.

LET'S SAY FOR THE SAKE OF OUR DEVASTATION THAT HAMAS IS DISMANTLED, WHAT SHOULD HAPPEN AFTER THAT?

HOW DOES THE REGION GO FORWARD AFTER THAT?

>> I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS I WROTE IN THAT PIECE IS WE NEED TO BE THINKING ABOUT THE DAY AFTER RIGHT NOW.

WE CAN'T WAIT UNTIL THE DAY AFTER TO BE THINKING ABOUT IT.

THERE NEEDS TO BE AN ALTERNATIVE ADMINISTRATION IN GAZA, MAYBE UNDER SOME KIND OF INTERNATIONAL TRUSTEESHIP.

THERE NEEDS TO BE A PLAN FOR RECONSTRUCTION AS PART OF THAT AND ELECTIONS HELD 6 TO 9 MONTHS LATER.

THERE NEEDS TO BE, IN OTHER WORDS, THERE NEEDS TO BE A STRATEGIC PLAN FOR WHAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN IN GAZA AFTERWARDS AND THAT PLAN IS TO ENSURE IT CAN BE REARMED AND IT ALSO NEEDS TO CREATE THE EQUIVALENT OF A MARSHALL PLAN FOR GAZA.

ONE OF THE GOOD THINGS ABOUT GAZA FROM THAT STANDPOINT IS THAT IT IS SMALL.

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT AN AREA THAT IS NOT MUCH BIGGER THAN THE GREATER NEW YORK AREA.

SO THE POTENTIAL, AND YOU WILL HAVE SO MUCH DESTRUCTION THERE, THAT REBUILDING THE INFRASTRUCTURE, AND IN A SENSE ALMOST STARTING FROM A LOW-END, YOU CAN MAKE A BIG DIFFERENCE PRETTY QUICKLY.

AND GIVE PALESTINIANS A CHANCE TO BREATHE.

THAT WOULD BE ONE THING.

THE SECOND THING, I DON'T WRITE OFF THE POSSIBILITY THAT WE WILL STILL SEE, MAYBE SEVERAL MONTHS DOWN THE ROAD, SAUDI/ISRAELI BREAKTHROUGH.

IN WHICH CASE PART OF THAT WILL ALSO INVOLVE WHAT WAS DONE FOR PALESTINIANS IN THE WEST BANK AS WELL.

NOT ONLY IN TERMS OF CHANGING HOW THEY LIVE BUT ALSO TANGIBLE STEPS THAT WOULD ENSURE THAT THE TWO STATE REMAINS AN OPTION FOR THE FUTURE.

THEN YOU CAN CHANGE THE TRAJECTORY AND MOVE IT AWAY THAT BECOMES DRAMATICALLY MORE HOPEFUL.

WHAT WE CAN'T DO IS BECOME SO LOST IN WHAT IS HAPPENING RIGHT NOW THAT WE LOSE SIGHT OF ANYTHING THAT MIGHT HAPPEN OVER TIME.

LOOK, I COMPLETELY, YOU USE THE WORD GRIEVOUS, THERE IS A POVERTY OF LANGUAGE TO CAPTURE WHAT IT MEANS TO SEE THESE LOSSES.

I MEAN, THAT IS WHAT MAKES IT SO HURTFUL.

BECAUSE THESE ARE NOT JUST NUMBERS, THEY ARE ALL INDIVIDUAL HUMAN BEINGS WITH FAMILIES.

>> YOU THINK THERE IS THE POLITICAL WILL IN THE UNITED STATES TO SUPPORT, LEADERSHIP EVEN, IN THE KIND OF PROJECT THAT YOU HAVE SPOKEN UP?

>> WELL, I HOPE SO.

LOOK, OBVIOUSLY WE HAVE OUR OWN POLITICAL REALITIES HERE.

I DO THINK THAT PRESIDENT BIDEN WOULD WANT TO COME OUT OF THIS WITH A POTENTIAL TO CHANGE THE REALITIES IN THE MIDDLE EAST.

WE'VE GOTTEN A REMINDER THAT EVERY TIME WE THOUGHT WE COULD IGNORE THE MIDDLE EAST IT RE- IMPOSES ITSELF ON US.

TO THINK THAT THE MIDDLE EAST IS DISCONNECTED FROM LARGER GLOBAL PETITION, WE ARE CONSTANTLY REMINDED THAT IT IS NOT.

YOU HAVE AN AREA, THAT FOR ANOTHER 30 YEARS FOSSIL FUELS WILL STILL BE IMPORTED.

IT IS IMPORTANT THAT STANDPOINT AND A GEOGRAPHIC STANDPOINT.

IT'S AN IMPORTANT BECAUSE IT GENERATES IDEOLOGIES THAT ARE A THREAT TO EVERYONE.

SO THE MORE YOU REMOVE YOURSELF FROM THE MIDDLE EAST, THE MORE YOU AND HIM BEING SUCKED BACK IN BUT IN WORSE CIRCUMSTANCES.

NOTHING BUT BE WORSE THAN TO HAVE THIS EVENT AND DO NOTHING.

>> AMBASSADOR, THANK YOU FOR SPEAKING WITH US.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> FINALLY, OUR COLLEAGUE JUST ARRIVED IN TEL AVIV TO REPORT ON THE LATEST TRAGEDY ON THE GROUND.

BUT BOARDING A FLIGHT SHE CAPTURED SOME MOMENTS OF LIFE, OPTIMISM, A TEARFUL MOMENT AS CREWS WELCOMED PASSENGERS THEIR RENDITION OF THE 1979 ISRAELI SONG, HALLELUJAH.

TAKE CARE OF YOURSELVES.

>> HALLELUJAH, HALLELUJAH.

♪