INCIDENT, WE KNOW THAT INCIDENTS OF BULLYING HURT OUR ENTIRE WELLESLEY COMMUNITY.

WE TAKE ANY REPORTED ALLEGATIONS OF BULLYING VERY SERIOUSLY AND FOLLOW A SPECIFIC PROCESS OF INVESTIGATION AND ACTION."

BUT DO THEY?

SEAN'S CASE IS NOT THE ONLY ONE ABOUT WHICH PARENTS HAVE RAISED CONCERNS.

SINCE HIS FAMILY WENT PUBLIC, OTHERS HAVE SHARED THEIR STORIES IN ONLINE GROUPS AND OTHER FORUMS, INCLUDING MULTIPLE PARENTS WHO SAY RACISM HAS BEEN INVOLVED IN THE TREATMENT OF THEIR KIDS AND THAT THE SCHOOL HAS NOT ADEQUATELY RESPONDED.

AMONG THEM IS MARY GODWYN, WHO SAYS ONE OF HER YOUNG, BI-RACIAL DAUGHTERS WAS PHYSICALLY ATTACKED MULTIPLE TIMES IN HER WELLESLEY PUBLIC ELEMENTARY SCHOOL.

MARY JOINS ME NOW, ALONG WITH ONE OF OUR REGULAR GUESTS, TINA OPIE, WHOSE KIDS USED TO GO TO WELLESLEY PUBLIC SCHOOLS AS WELL UNTIL THE FAMILY MOVED, IN PART, BECAUSE OF THEIR TREATMENT IN THE TOWN.

WE'VE ALSO REACHED OUT TO THE SCHOOLS.

THEY CHOSE NOT TO RESPOND, WHICH I MUST ADMIT DRIVES ME CRAZY.

>> Braude: WE DID NOT HEAR BACK UNTIL ABOUT 15 MINUTES BEFORE WE STARTED TAPING THIS SEGMENT, BUT TO ASK WHAT THE DEADLINE WAS TO SEND A STATEMENT, AND WE RESPONDED IT WAS IMMEDIATELY, AND, OF COURSE, WE HEARD NOTHING.

MARY AND TINA, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH, JIM.

>> THANK YOU.

>> Braude: MARY, CAN YOU SHARE WITH US WHAT HAPPENED TO YOUR DAUGHTER, PLEASE?

>> YES.

UM, MY SECOND GRADER, WHO STARTED AT BAY ELEMENTARY SCHOOL JUST THIS YEAR CAME HOME AND TOLD ME THAT SOMEONE HAD SPIT ON HER, THAT ANOTHER CHILD HAD TAKEN A BUNCH OF GRAVEL AND PUT IT IN HIS MOUTH AND SPIT ALL OVER HER LUNCH, LIKE A SHOTGUN.

AND AT FIRST WHEN SHE TOLD ME THAT, I HONESTLY COULDN'T BELIEVE IT.

I WAS REALLY TAKEN ABACK.

IT IS TERRIBLE IN ANY SITUATION, BUT BECAUSE OF COVID, IT IS REALLY A PUBLIC HEALTH ISSUE.

SO THIS IS AFTER SCHOOL.

SO I CALLED THE SCHOOL IMMEDIATELY.

I GOT THE ADMINISTRATIVE ASSISTANT AT THE OFFICE.

AND SHE PUT ME THROUGH TO THE NURSE.

AND SO I EXPLAINED TO THE NURSE WHAT HAD HAPPENED.

AND, TO ME, I HAD REPORTED THIS INCIDENT.

AND I FOLLOWED UP AND SENT HER CLASSROOM TEACHER AN E-MAIL, JUST ASKING HER HOW IS AUGUST DOING, HOW IS SHE ADJUSTING TO SCHOOL?

AND I WAS REASSURED THAT THINGS WERE FINE.

THEN IT HAPPENED AGAIN, AUGUST WAS SPIT ON AGAIN.

THEN SHE HAD ROCKS THROWN AT HER.

THEN AT THIS POINT I REACHED OUT TO THE PRINCIPAL, AND I WAS IN THE PROCESS OF GETTING AN APPOINTMENT TO SEE THE PRINCIPAL, TO MEET WITH HER, WHEN I PICKED UP AUGUST UP, AND HER CLASSROOM TEACHER INFORMED ME THAT AUGUST HAD BEEN HIT WITH A VINE, AND THAT SHE HAD BEEN INJURED.

AND THERE WAS -- SHE WENT TO SEE THE NURSE AND THERE WAS A WELT ON HER BACK THAT HAD A BAND-AID ON IT.

WHEN I ASKED AUGUST WHAT HAPPENED, SHE TOLD ME THAT ON THE PLAYGROUND SHE HAD BEEN PUSHED DOWN, SHE HAD BEEN KICKED AND HIT, AND SHE GOT UP AND RAN AWAY.

NO ONE INTERFERED.

THERE WAS NEVER AN ADULT TO HELP HER IN ANY OF THESE INCIDENTS.

SHE RAN AWAY TO A WOODED SECTION OF THE PLAYGROUND, AND SHE PICKED UP A VINE AND RAISED IT TO DEFEND HERSELF AGAINST THIS CHILD WHO CHASED HER.

AND THEN SHE SAID SHE THOUGHT, NO, I DON'T WANT TO HURT HIM, AND SHE PUT THE VINE DOWN.

HE PICKED IT UP AND WHIPPED HER AND LEFT A WELT.

AND SHE RAN AND FOUND A TEACHER.

AND I SHOULD MENTION THAT AUGUST WAS PUNISHED FOR THIS BY THE PRINCIPAL.

SHE AND THE OTHER CHILD EQUALLY WERE PUNISHED.

SO WHEN I MET WITH THE PRINCIPAL, I ASKED HER A NUMBER OF QUESTIONS, AS YOU CAN IMAGINE.

THE FIRST IS: WHY WEREN'T WE CONTACTED?

I FILLED OUT A BULLYING REPORT AS PER THE POLICY.

AND THE PRINCIPAL SAID TO ME FLATLY: THIS ISN'T BULLYING.

I DON'T CONSIDER THIS BULLYING.

SO I DID -- MY SPOUSE AND I PUSHED HER TO INVESTIGATE, AS THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO.

I ASKED HER WHY AUGUST WAS PUNISHED.

AND SHE EXPLAINED TO ME THAT BECAUSE AUGUST HAD RAISED HER HAND AND THREATENED THE OTHER CHILD, THE NUMEROUS INCIDENTS THAT SHE HAD BEEN THROUGH, INCLUDING BEING HURT AND SPIT ON, WERE THE EQUIVALENT.

AND SO THEY BOTH WERE PUNISHED EQUALLY.

>> Braude: YOU KNOW, IF I CAN, TINA, I WANT TO BRING YOU INTO THIS.

YOU TOOK YOUR KIDS OUT OF THE WELLESLEY PUBLIC SCHOOLS FIVE OR SIX YEARS AGO.

DOES THIS SOUND TO YOU LIKE ANYTHING HAS CHANGED IN THE INTERVENING TIME?

>> UNFORTUNATELY, NO.

AND JUST TO CLARIFY FOR THE VIEWERS, THAT WAS ONE OF THE REASONS WE MOVED OFF, BECAUSE WELLESLEY IS MORE EXPENSIVE THAN THE SURROUNDING NEIGHBORHOODS, BUT IT DOESN'T SOUND LIKE ENOUGH HAS CHANGED.

WHAT IS REALLY UPSETTING IS THAT MARY, AS A PARENT, LIKE WE WERE AS A PARENT, WE WERE TOLD THAT OUR CHILD HAD TO BE PUNISHED.

AND FOR SOME PARTICULAR REASON NOW -- >> Braude: WHAT HAPPENED -- BEFORE YOU TELL US THAT, WHAT HAPPENED TO YOUR KIDS THERE IN THOSE SCHOOLS?

>> WELL, SO, I HAVE TWO CHILDREN.

SO THERE WERE DIFFERENT THINGS.

OUR SON, WHO IS NOW 18, HE WAS TARGETED BY A FAMILY IN WELLESLEY, WHERE THEIR DAUGHTER WAS MAKING UP STORIES.

I DON'T WANT TO USE THE WORD "LIE" BECAUSE I WAS TOLD BY THE WELLESLEY PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEM, IF SHE BELIEVES WHAT SHE IS SAYING, IT IS NOT A LIE.

I WAS LIKE, WAIT A MINUTE.

FORTUNATELY THERE WERE CAMERAS ON THE BUSES AND IN THE HALLS, AND IF ANYONE WAS BULLYING, IT WAS HER, BUT THIS WAS AFTER OUR SON WAS SUBJECTED TO MONTHS OF MAL TREATMENT.

OUR DAUGHTER WAS SPAT ON.

FORTUNATELY THERE ARE SOME GOOD PRINCIPALS.

WE HAD A VERY GOOD PRINCIPAL AS SCHOFIELD, WHO REFUSED TO LET PEOPLE MAKE OUR DAUGHTER A BAD CHILD.

BUT THERE WAS A SUPERINTENDENT, WHO I BELIEVE IS STILL THERE, WHO ACTUALLY DID HARM TO OUR FAMILY.

AND I BELIEVE THAT HE IS INVOLVED WITH THIS SITUATION AS WELL.

>> Braude: SO THAT SUPERINTENDENT, DAVID LUSIER, IS STILL THERE?

>> YES.

>> Braude: TINA, WHAT WAS THE IMPACT ON YOUR KIDS OF THIS TREATMENT?

>> OH, MY GOSH, I COULD GET EMOTIONAL.

THEY WERE REALLY CONFUSED BECAUSE, REMEMBER, THIS IS A VERY INTIMATE ENVIRONMENT.

YOU'RE INTERACTING WITH TEACHERS AND PRINCIPALS AND ADMINISTRATORS AND CLASSMATES, AND YOU THINK THAT PEOPLE VALUE YOU, BUT THEN YOU'RE ON A PLAYGROUND AND SOMEONE SPITS ON YOU.

OR SOMEONE'S FAMILY GOES TO THE POLICE ON AN 11-YEAR-OLD BECAUSE THEY THINK HE IS TOO BIG OR HE IS GOING TO DO HARM TO OUR FAMILY.

IT CAUSES A DEEP LEVEL AND CONFUSION.

BECAUSE YOU'RE RAISED TO BELIEVE THAT PEOPLE FOR THE MOST PART OF GOOD, AND I BELIEVE THEY ARE, BUT RACISM BLINDS PEOPLE, AND IT HURTS THE ENTIRE COMMUNITY.

SO IT HARMED MY CHILDREN, BUT THAT ENTIRE COMMUNITY WAS HARMED WHEN OUR FAMILY FELT LIKE WE NEEDED TO LEAVE.

>> Braude: MARY, WHAT HAS THE IMPACT OF ALL THIS BEEN ON AUGUST?

>> IT HAS REALLY BEEN HORRIFIC.

AUGUST IS MY MOST SOCIAL, MY HAPPIEST CHILD.

AND SHE WENT FROM A KID WHO SO LOVED SCHOOL AND WAS SO LOOKING FORWARD TO GOING BACK TO SCHOOL, TO A KID WHO STOPPED EATING AT SCHOOL.

SHE STARTED BRINGING HOME HER ENTIRE SNACK AND LUNCH UNTOUCHED.

SHE STARTED WAKING UP AT NIGHT WITH BAD DREAMS.

DREAMS ABOUT SOMEBODY WAS GOING TO COME AND HURT US.

SOMEBODY SET OUR CAR ON FIRE.

SO REALLY FRIGHTENED.

AUGUST HAS ACTUALLY -- SHE IS ONLY SEVEN.

SHE HAS TRIED TO SOLVE THIS PROBLEM.

SHE'S ASKED INITIALLY THAT THE OTHER CHILD BE MOVED OUT OF HER CLASSROOM BECAUSE SHE SAYS HE STARES AT HER.

HE LOOKS AT HER.

HE MAKES MEAN FACES, AND IT'S HARD.

THAT REQUEST WAS DENIED.

>> Braude: MARY, CAN I INTERRUPT YOU, ONLY BECAUSE WE ACTUALLY HAVE VIDEO, I KNOW THAT YOUR DAUGHTER MADE IN A PLEA, I GUESS, FOR LACK OF A BETTER EXPRESSION, TO HER TEACHER.

HERE IS JUST A LITTLE PIECE OF WHAT AUGUST SAID TO HER TEACHER.

>> I'M SCARED.

I REALLY WISH THAT (bleep) WASN'T IN MY CLASS.

BUT IF YOU CAN MOVE HIM, CAN I SIT RIGHT NEXT TO YOU?

SO YOU CAN KEEP ME SAFE?

>> Braude: IT'S HEARTBREAKING.

AND WHAT WAS THE REACTION TO YOUR FAMILY'S REQUEST AND, MOST IMPORTANTLY, YOUR DAUGHTER'S REQUEST THERE?

>> AUGUST HAS ASKED HER TEACHER EVERY DAY IF SHE CAN SIT NEXT TO HER.

AND EVERY DAY HER TEACHER REFUSES.

AUGUST HAS ASKED IF SHE COULD SIT CLOSE TO THE CHILDREN WHO HAVE BEEN KIND TO HER.

AND HER TEACHER WROTE ME AN E-MAIL SAYING THAT WOULD BE A SAFETY PLAN, AND THAT IS UP TO THE PRINCIPAL.

AND HER TEACHER -- HER TEACHER HAS LOOKED AT HER EVERY DAY AND NOT MOVED HER TO SIT CLOSE TO HER.

AND, HONESTLY, I JUST CAN'T -- I KNOW THAT THERE ARE SUCH GOOD TEACHERS OUT THERE, TEACHERS THAT, YOU KNOW, PAY FOR SCHOOL SUPPLIES OUT OF THEIR OWN MONEY AND PUT THEIR BODIES IN FRONT OF BULLETS TO PROTECT KIDS.

SO I KNOW THAT THERE ARE A LOT OF TEACHERS WHO ARE GIVING EVERYTHING.

BUT THIS -- THIS TEACHER, TO LOOK AT MY DAUGHTER AND NOT EVEN SIT NEXT TO HER, TO ISOLATE HER LIKE THAT IN THAT CLASSROOM, IT IS MORE THAN I CAN BEAR, HONESTLY.

>> Braude: TINA, WE'VE DISCUSSED RACE ON THIS SHOW WITH YOU MORE TIMES THAN I CAN REMEMBER.

AND I PROBABLY WOULD A SAID TO YOU, DO YOU THINK THAT IF THE VICTIMS OF BULLYING IN THIS WELLESLEY PUBLIC SCHOOLS ARE BLACK OR BI-RACIAL THEY'RE TREATED DIFFERENTLY, BUT AS YOU KNOW, THE RALLY THIS MORNING WAS IN GREAT PART AROUND A WHITE HIGH SCHOOL KID, SEAN ADE.

SO IS THIS EQUAL OPPORTUNITY IGNORING OF A PROBLEM, OR IS RACE AT ITS CORE, AT LEAST IN THE CASES OF BOTH YOUR FAMILIES?

>> WELL, JUST GOING FROM THE STATISTICS, WE KNOW THAT THERE ATTEND TENDS TO BE MORE NEGATIVE UPCOME OUTCOME WHEN YOU ADD AN ISSUE SUCH AS RACE.

PERHAPS THE RALLY WOULDN'T HAVE HAD TO HAPPEN THIS MORNING IF MY SON WAS TREATED -- MAYOR MAYBE AUGUST, MARY'S DAUGHTER WOULDN'T HAVE HAD TO DEAL WITH THAT IF WE HELD THE SYSTEM ACCOUNTABLE.

I WANT TO FOCUS ON THAT.

BECAUSE WE HAVE TO LOOK AT THE SYSTEM.

BECAUSE THE REASON WHY THE SUPERINTENDENT OR THE PRINCIPAL OR THE TEACHER MAY FEEL THAT THEY CAN CONTINUE THIS IS BECAUSE THERE IS A SYSTEM BEHIND THEM THAT IS SUPPORTING THAT.

MARY AND I, AS PARENTS -- I DON'T LIKE THE CONSUMER MODEL OF EDUCATION, BUT WE SEND OUR CHILDREN THERE.

IF WE ARE BEING TREATED THIS WAY, IMAGINE HOW THE STAFF IS BEING TREATED INSIDE OF THE ORGANIZATION.

ESPECIALLY PEOPLE FROM HISTORICALLY MARGINALIZED PEOPLE, SO THE STAFF, THE STUDENTS, THE PARENTS, I HOPE WE CAN COME TOGETHER AND SHED A LIGHT ON THIS BECAUSE THAT IS HOW WE CAN PROTECT OUR CHILDREN AND MAKE OUR COMMUNITIES SAFER FOR ALL OF US.

>> Braude: TINA AND MARY, I HAVE TO HOLD IT HERE.

I PROMISE TO BE CONTINUED.

MARY, I WISH YOU A LOT OF LUCK WITH YOUR DAUGHTER, AND TINA, AS ALWAYS, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR SPENDING TIME WITH US.

>> THANK YOU.

MARY, I'M SO SORRY.

THANK YOU, JIM.

>> THANK YOU, JIM.

>> Braude: NEXT UP...THE OPERATOR OF MORE THAN A DOZEN MENTAL HEALTH FACILITIES ACROSS MASSACHUSETTS, AND TWO OF ITS FORMER EXECUTIVES -- AND IT ONLY CAME TO LIGHT BECAUSE OF A FORMER EMPLOYEE, CHRISTINE MARTINO-FLEMING -- FILED A FEDERAL WHISTLE-BLOWER LAWSUIT.

SHE WORKED FOR THE COMPANY FROM 2008 TO 2014 AND WITNESSED WHAT SHE SAID WAS A PATTERN OF SOUTH BAY COMMUNITY SERVICES FRAUDULENTLY BILLING MASSHEALTH, THE STATE'S MEDICAID PROGRAM FOR LOW-INCOME RESIDENTS, FOR THOSE SO-CALLED SERVICES.

IN 2018, ATTORNEY MAURA HEALEY JOINED THE SUIT, WHICH RESULTED IN THIS SETTLEMENT.

IT DOES NOT INCLUDE ANY ADMISSION OF WRONG-DOING BY THE COMPANY.

BUT AFTERWARD, HEALEY RELEASED A STATEMENT SAYING: "IT VITAL THAT PEOPLE WHO NEED MENTAL HEALTH SERVICES RECEIVE TREATMENT FROM QUALIFIED INDIVIDUALS.

WE TOOK ACTION AGAINST THESE DEFENDANTS FOR LEAVING THOUSANDS OF MASSHEALTH PATIENTS WITH UNLICENSED AND UNSUPERVISED CARE, WHILE MASSHEALTH PAID MILLIONS OF DOLLARS FOR FRAUDULENT SERVICES.

WE WILL GO AFTER BAD ACTORS WHO JEOPARDIZE PEOPLE'S HEALTH AND WELL-BEING TO MAKE A PROFIT."

I'M JOINED NOW BY THE WHISTLE-BLOWER, CHRISTINE MARTINO-FLEMING, A FORMER STAFF DEVELOPMENT AND TRAINING COORDINATOR AT SOUTH BAY COMMUNITY SERVICES, ALONG WITH CAITLYN SILHAN, ONE OF HER ATTORNEYS, FROM WATERS AND KRAUS, L.L.P.

>> Braude: CAITLYN AND CHRISTINE, THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE.

I REALLY APPRECIATE IT.

>> THANKS, JIM.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING US.

>> Braude: LET ME START WITH YOU FOR A SECOND, BEFORE YOU WENT PUBLIC WITH THESE CONCERNS, DID YOU SPEAK TO SUPERVISORS, PEOPLE ABOVE YOU, TO BRING THIS TO THEIR ATTENTION AND SEEK A FIX?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

I BROUGHT IT TO MY DIRECT SUPERVISOR, THE C.E.O.

OF SOUTH BAY, AND I STARTED THERE.

AND FOR TWO YEARS I RAISED IT TO THE C.E.O.

OF SOUTH BAY, THE C.E.O.

OF C.I.F., I BROUGHT IT TO AN H.I.G.

BOARD MEMBER AND A CHIEF COMPLIANCE OFFICER -- >> Braude: AND WHAT DID THEY SAY?

WHAT KIND OF RESPONSE DID YOU GET FROM THESE PEOPLE?

>> WELL, AT FIRST I GOT NO RESPONSE.

BUT FROM SOME PEOPLE IT WAS MORE, YEAH, I KNOW IT SHOULD BE, BUT, YOU KNOW, THIS IS THE WAY THAT MENTAL HEALTH VENDORS DO IT.

AND THAT'S WHAT I GOT.

>> Braude: DID SOME, OR MOST OF THEM, CHRISTINE, KNOW BEFORE YOU EVEN SAID IT THAT THEY HAD UNLICENSED, AND IN SOME CASES UNQUALIFIED PEOPLE, PROVIDING CARE TO THEIR CLIENTS AND BILLING FOR THESE SERVICES?

DID THEY KNOW THIS?

>> I CAN'T IMAGINE THEY DIDN'T KNOW IT.

AND THE C.E.O.

IS A LICENSED PSYCHOLOGIST.

THERE IS NO WAY HE COULDN'T HAVE KNOWN IT.

>> Braude: CHRISTINE, STAYING WITH YOU FOR ONE MORE MINUTES, WE'VE LEARNED -- A LOT OF US IN RECENT TIMES, PARTICULARLY WITH THAT Facebook WHISTLE-BLOWER TESTIFYING BEFORE CONGRESS, BEING A WHISTLE-BLOWER CAN BE A SCARY KIND OF THING.

DID YOU HAVE SECOND THOUGHTS, OR FIRST THOUGHTS, BEFORE YOU DECIDED TO GO PUBLIC WITH ALL OF THIS?

>> NOT REALLY.

NOT REALLY.

BECAUSE I HAD BEEN DOING THIS FOR SO LONG, BLOWING THE WHISTLE INTERNALLY, THAT I JUST FELT IT WAS THE RIGHT THING TO DO.

>> Braude: SO, CAITLYN, WHAT KIND OF PROTECTIONS DO PEOPLE LIKE CHRISTINE HAVE UNDER THE LAW, AND ARE THEY REAL?

I KNOW YOU'LL EXPLAIN WHAT THE LAW IS, BUT IT SEEMS TO ME AS AN OUTSIDER, THAT THOSE LEGAL PROTECTIONS OFTEN DON'T PROTECT THESE PEOPLE.

>> SURE.

SO UNDER THE FEDERAL FALSE CLAIMS ACT AND THE MASSACHUSETTS FALSE CLAIMS ACT, WHISTLE-BLOWERS LIKE CHRISTINE ARE PROTECTED FROM RETALIATION IN THEIR EMPLOYMENT.

BUT YOU'RE RIGHT, THIS IS OFTEN SOMETHING THAT IS ONLY A FIX AFTER THE FACT.

THEY'RE ONLY ENTITLED TO DAMAGES, BACK PAY, THOSE KINDS OF MEASURES, YOU KNOW, AFTER THEY FILE A SUIT.

AND BY THAT TIME THINGS COULD HAVE CHANGED DRASTICALLY.

THEY COULD HAVE LOST THEIR JOBS, FACE OTHER ADVERSE CONSEQUENCES FOR BLOWING THE WHISTLE.

>> Braude: CAITLYN, STAYING WITH YOU FOR A MINUTE, I KNOW $25 MILLION, ACCORDING TO THE ATTORNEY GENERAL IS A RECORD, AND IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO DO THE MATH, BUT I READ THEY HAD 30,000 TO 35,000 CLIENTS A YEAR.

IT SEEMS TO ME $25 MILLION IS PROBABLY NOT DISGORGING, FOR LACK OF A BETTER EXPRESSION, ALL OF THE MONEY THEY MAY PERPETRATING THIS FRAUD.

BASED ON WHAT YOU KNOW, IS THAT A FAIR ASSUMPTION?

THAT THEY, ESSENTIALLY, HAVEN'T BEEN FINED AN AMOUNT EQUAL TO THAT WHICH THEY DEFRAUDED THE STATE FOR?

>> WELL, THE SETTLEMENT DOESN'T REPRESENT ALL OF THE MONEY THEY WERE PAID BY MASSHEALTH DURING THE RELEVANT TIME PERIOD, THAT IS TRUE.

WE DIDN'T -- THE COMMONWEALTH DIDN'T ALLEGE THAT EVERY SINGLE CLAIM FOR PAYMENT WAS FALSE AND SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN PAID.

BUT, YOU'RE RIGHT, THIS IS NOT THE AMOUNT WE WOULD HAVE SOUGHT FROM A JURY.

IT IS A SETTLEMENT THAT REPRESENTS A COMPROMISE AMONG THE PARTIES.

>> Braude: I WANT TO MAKE CLEAR, IT IS STILL THE LARGEST.

I'M NOT BELITTLING IT, I'M JUST TRYING TO PUT IT IN SOME CONTEXT.

HOW WIDESPREAD WERE THESE CONDITIONS -- I DON'T MEAN A PRECISE NUMBER, BUT WAS IT A SIGNIFICANT PERCENTAGE OF THE PEOPLE PROVIDING SERVICES WHO WERE UNLICENSED AND UNQUALIFIED, OR JUST A HANDFUL?

>> I BELIEVE THE NUMBER WAS SOMEWHERE AROUND 55%, 70% OF CLINICIANS THAT WERE WORKING THERE WERE UNLICENSED AND NOT SUPERVISED BY SOMEBODY LICENSED.

>> Braude: WE TALKED A MINUTE AGO ABOUT YOUR SUPERVISORS AND WHETHER THEY KNEW.

DID THE SERVICE PROVIDERS THEMSELVES, WHO DIDN'T HAVE THE APPROPRIATE LICENSURE OR QUALIFICATIONS, DID THEY KNOW THEY ESSENTIALLY WERE PARTICIPATING IN THE DEFRAUDING OF THE STATE AND THE TAXPAYERS OF THE STATE AND FEDERAL GOVERNMENT?

DID THEY KNOW THEY SHOULDN'T BE DOING THAT WHICH THEY WERE DOING?

>> WELL, FIRST I WANT TO SAY THAT COUNSELORS IN GENERAL IN THIS FIELD REALLY WANT TO MAKE CHANGE AND THEY'RE REALLY GOOD PEOPLE, AND THEY WANT TO HELP WHENEVER THEY CAN.

SO THEY GET INTO THIS FIELD, AND MANY OF THEM ARE LOOKING TO BECOME LICENSED.

AND SO THEY'RE WORKING AT SOUTH BAY, THEY'RE HOPING TO GET SUPERVISION.

THEY WERE TOLD THEY WERE GOING TO BE GETTING SUPERVISION, AND THEY DIDN'T.

AT THIS POINT THEY'RE ALREADY WITH THEIR CLIENTS AND ALREADY TRYING TO HELP.

AND NOT TO MENTION, THESE ARE NEW GRADUATES IN THE FIELD.

THEY HAVE BEEN TOLD OVER AND OVER AGAIN AS PART OF THE CULTURE IN SOUTH BAY, AS LONG AS SOMEBODY AT THE TOP IS LICENSED, YOU'RE FINE.

>> Braude: CAITLYN, I KNOW THAT CONSIDERING I DON'T HAVE TO NEGOTIATE WITH THESE KINDS OF PEOPLE, I'M PROBABLY FAR LESS CHARITABLE ABOUT SOME SETTLEMENTS THAN I SHOULD BE.

AGAIN, I CELEBRATE THE FACT THERE WAS THIS KIND OF FINE AND HOW LARGE IT WAS.

BUT AS IS OFTEN THE CASE, THE PERPETRATORS -- I KNOW IT IS NOT A CRIME, BUT I'LL USE THE TERM IF I MAY -- THOSE POSSIBLE RESPONSIBLE FOR IT TO PAID THE FINES DIDN'T HAVE TO ADMIT ANY WRONG-DOING.

DOES THAT IN ANY WAY PRECLUDE AN INDIVIDUAL CLIENT, FOR EXAMPLE, WHO HAS FOUND OUT, OR DOES FIND OUT AS A RESULT OF THIS SETTLEMENT, THAT THEY RECEIVED CARE FROM SOMEONE WHO WASN'T QUALIFIED TO PROVIDE IT -- ARE THEY IN A POSITION TO SEEK REDRESS, FINANCIAL REDRESS, THEMSELVES?

>> YOU KNOW, I CAN'T SPEAK TO THAT.

WHAT I CAN SPEAK TO, THOUGH, IS GOING BACK TO THE SETTLEMENT ITSELF.

I WANT TO MAKE A POINT THAT SOUTH BAY SETTLED WITH THE COMMONWEALTH SHORTLY AFTER THE COMMONWEALTH INTERVENED.

IT WAS BROUGHT INTO COMPLIANCE IN 2018, FORTUNATELY, AS A RESULT OF CHRISTINE'S LAWSUIT AND THE COMMONWEALTH INTERVENTION.

IT AND C.I.S.

DECLARED BANKRUPTCY EARLIER THIS YEAR.

SO PART OF WHAT ACCOUNTS FOR THE WAY THE SETTLEMENT WORKED OUT WAS THE PROVIDER ITSELF DECLARED BANKRUPTCY AND HAS EXITED BANKRUPTCY NOW UNDER DIFFERENT CIRCUMSTANCES.

>> Braude: DO YOU BUY INTO THE NOTION THAT THESE KINDS OF SETTLEMENTS, PARTICULARLY OF THIS SIZE -- AND THIS IS FOR YOU, CAITLYN, CAITLYN -- DETER SIMILAR BEHAVIOR OTHER SIMILARLY POSITIONED -- I HAVE TO SAY WHILE I'M A LAWYER IN MY FORMER LIFE, AS A LAY PERSON, THE NOTION PEOPLE ARE GETTING MEDICAL HEALTH SERVICES, PARTICULARLY LOW-INCOME PEOPLE WHO DON'T HAVE MANY OTHER PLACES TO GO, AND THE PEOPLE WHO ARE COLLECTING THE MONEY FROM THE TAXPAYERS AND THE STATE DON'T -- APPARENTLY DIDN'T GIVE A DAMN ABOUT THE LEVEL OF QUALIFICATION, IT SORT OF IS STUNNING TO ME.

DO YOU BUY INTO THE NOTION -- AND I HOPE YOU DO -- THAT THE VOLUME, THE SIZE OF THE SETTLEMENT, WILL DETER OTHER POTENTIAL WRONG DOERS DOWN THE LINE?

>> I DO.

AND I'LL LET CHRISTINE SPEAK TO ONE ASPECT OF MY RESPONSE.

IN HER CASE, IT WAS ACTUALLY ANOTHER LAWSUIT, A PREVIOUS FALSE CLAIMS ACT ACTION WITH SIMILAR FACTS IN THE MENTAL HEALTH FIELD THAT BROUGHT TO LIGHT SOME CONCERNS IN THIS SPACE, AND BROUGHT WHISTLE-BLOWERS LIKE CHRISTINE TO THE FOREFRONT AND EMPOWERED THEM TO BRING A CASE.

WE HOPE THAT HER CASE WILL DO THE SAME.

WITH RESPECT TO PRIVATE EQUITY COMPANIES AND THEIR INVOLVEMENT IN HEALTH CARE, THIS IS A VERY SIGNIFICANT SETTLEMENT.

THE RULING WE GOT FROM JUDGE FARIS IN THIS CASE ON SUMMARY JUDGMENT WAS ITSELF GROUNDBREAKING, ESPECIALLY THAT A PRIVATE EQUITY COMPANY CAN BE LIABLE FOR CAUSING ITS PORTFOLIO COMPANY TO SUBMIT FALSE CLAIMS, WHERE IT IS REALLY INVOLVED IN THE OPERATIONS AND MANAGEMENT OF THAT COMPANY.

AND SO THAT RULING, COMBINED WITH THIS SETTLEMENT, REALLY SHOULD SEND A MESSAGE.

IT SHOULD EMPOWER WHISTLE-BLOWERS, HELP THEM COME FORWARD TO REPORT THIS KIND OF FRAUD, AND IT SHOULD ALSO CAUSE COMPANIES TO TAKE A SECOND LOOK AT THEIR PRACTICES.

>> Braude: ONE LAST THING FOR YOU, CAITLYN, BEFORE I GO BACK TO CHRISTINE.

I KNOW THIS MAY NOT BE IN YOUR BAILIWICK, BUT I'LL GIVE IT A TRY ANYWAY: I'VE GROWN UP WITH THE NOTION THAT WHEN YOU TAKE MONEY FROM ANYBODY, WHETHER IT IS A PRIVATE INDIVIDUAL OR A GOVERNMENT ENTITY, THROUGH FRAUD, YOU MAY HAVE COMMITTED A CRIME, AS WELL AS BEING CIVILLY LIABLE, AS THESE PEOPLE WERE.

CAN THEY STILL POTENTIALLY BE PROSECUTED HERE?

WE ASKED THAT QUESTION OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE AND THE RESPONSE WAS THIS WAS A CIVIL PROCEEDING.

COULD THERE POSSIBLY BE CRIMINAL CHARGES DOWN THE LIP?

>>LINE?

>> IS THAT A QUESTION FOR ME?

>> Braude: IT IS.

YOU'RE THE LAWYER IN THIS CROWD.

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

I CAN'T SPEAK TO THAT, EITHER.

WHISTLE-BLOWERS AND THEIR COUNSEL, WE ARE NOT DIRECTLY INVOLVED IN BRINGING THOSE CRIMINAL CHARGES.

THAT WOULD BE UP TO THE MASSACHUSETTS ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE OR THE UNITED STATES ATTORNEYS OFFICE.

>> Braude: WE'LL ASK THEM NEXT TIME THEY'RE HERE.

WE ONLY HAVE 30 SECONDS LEFT.

CHRISTINA, AT THE END OF THIS LONG ROAD, HOW DOES IT FEEL THAT IT IS YOUR COURAGE, FRANKLY, THAT CAUSED THIS OUTCOME TO HAPPEN?

>> WELL, I FEEL VERY EMPOWERED.

IF IT IS ALL RIGHT, I WOULD LIKE TO SHARE A COUPLE OF PRACTICAL TIPS THAT PEOPLE CAN DO TO HELP THEMSELVES.

>> Braude: QUICKLY, PLEASE, YES.

>> SOMEONE WHO IS IN NEED OF MENTAL HEALTH SERVICES, ASK YOUR CLINICIAN IF HE OR SHE IS LICENSED.

THEY CAN SAY, WHO IS YOUR SUPERVISOR, AND ARE YOU LICENSED?

IF YOU'RE A MENTAL HEALTH COUNSELOR, FIND OUT THE LICENSE OF YOUR DIRECT SUPERVISOR.

I THINK THAT IS SO IMPORTANT.

IF YOU'RE IN THE POSITION OF LEADERSHIP, KNOW THE REGULATIONS.

THERE IS NO EXCUSE NOT TO.

>> Braude: IF THEY CAN'T DO ANY OF THOSE THINGS, THEY SHOULD JUST CALL YOU, CHRISTINE.

CONGRATULATIONS TO BOTH OF YOU.

I REALLY LOOK FORWARD TO TALKING TO YOU AGAIN AND TALKING TO THE ATTORNEY GENERAL ABOUT THIS, TOO.

THANK YOU BOTH SO MUCH.

THAT IS IT FOR TONIGHT.

WE'LL BE BACK TOMORROW.

THANK YOU FOR WATCHING, AND PLEASE STAY SAFE.

♪♪ Captioned by Media Access Group at WGBH access.wgbh.org